Brad Flynn: Training First Responders to Save Lives Through Sensory Awareness

So I'm going to accramate a quick call and say, hey, can somebody fill me in on what this

“hat on what what happened? And they gave me the rundown on everything and I just had”

skills. I said, you've got to be kidding me. This is two weeks later at my department. And everything that we that we train these officers in played a major role in it. So this is how we were speaking with his wife because Brad, I don't think you quite understand the magnitude of this because he has several different conditions and he's on different medications for them and sometimes he builds up a tolerance to those medications and they quit working.

And that allows him to kind of slip into the arena where we found him and in distress, agitated and she said, this has happened before and it happened in another agency. Americans are capable of achieving extraordinary things when they have the freedom and opportunity to do so. This is American potential. Hey, everyone. Welcome to the American potential podcast. I'm your host, David Fram.

You know, if you couldn't tell by looking at engineer Matt's background, not only does he like to talk about cars, but he loves to work on them as well.

“So Matt, how many tools would you say you have in your garage?”

Easily hundreds. Easily hundreds. I mean, I have tons of tools. I mean, sure. I've got ratchets. I've got sockets. I've got power tools. I've got specialty test equipment and tools. It's a, you know, buying the tools is almost as much of a hobby as it is actually working on the cars. Well, I can imagine that's true. Is there a, do you have a favorite tool or one that did a few that you're the most excited about? The, my favorite tool is the one that actually

does the job I need when I need it. That's the thing. You've got the right tool. See,

it, you'll never break things quicker than using the wrong tool in the wrong way. Now,

believe me, I've said, I've had to do that. I've had to do that. But when you have a problem and you need a very specific tool, like a valve spring compressor, for example, and you get there's really no other good way to do it without it. When you have that tool, it makes the world a difference. Well, you know, Matt, that actually is very appropriate for what we're talking about today. So, you know, having the right tool can make the difference when it comes

to get in the job done. So, our guest today realized there was a missing tool for law enforcement and first responders when it came to certain interactions with people. This journey started with the diagnosis of his own son. And since then, he's traveled across the country,

helping train not just law enforcement and first responders, but really anyone who works with

the public on how to better identify someone who has sensory issues. I want to welcome the podcast retired police chief Brad Flynn. Brad, welcome. Good morning. Good morning. Well, I'm really interested to hear about some that makes a lot of sense to me, but I hadn't really thought of before. And you know, this kind of training that you pushed through law enforcement, but before we get into it, I'll keep taking me through why you got involved in law enforcement as a career. And

kind of maybe take a little bit, take us through a little bit of your career. Well, I just kind of stumbled into law enforcement as a career wise, because I didn't have any close family members or friends that were police officers, but I started off as an explorer, essentially a cadet with a neighboring agency and worked my way up through that program and became a sworn officer in 1993 and worked through the ranks, different assignments from traffic to narcotics, tactical operations, or

squat, and essentially got promoted up through the ranks and became a chief in 2000 and retired last year. Oh, congratulations. So you became chief in 2000. Is that true? And you started in 1993. So you're maybe, yeah, that's a fast mover. Well, I didn't think I could at the top. I guess easy for me to say. Yeah. Well, so there was something that happened with your son at his six-month-old check

“checkup that really changed or really focused your approach here. Can you kind of tell us that story?”

Yeah, I was actually at the FBI National Academy in Quantico at this time as a 10-week training program for the top 1% of law enforcement. And I got a call from my wife. I choose letting me know that a previous blood work that they did on my son had come back and they wanted to see us both immediately. And that was kind of made my blood run cold. I hopped on a plane, flew home, met with the dean of the Department of Genetics at the University of Alabama,

had a very rare genetic disorder. It's called Tricemet V. And he has an extra, extra third chromosome.

“And I said, okay, all right, tell me what his quality of life is going to be. We don't know.”

And that's not something that you really want to hear us to. Is this going to could this kill him? We don't know. And I said, well, I don't you know. And they explained to me that they had just begun to be able to test for this abnormality. And that my son was one of only about a hundred worldwide that they knew that had this border. And so they said, we from the limited sample of people that we have, we have some people that are having trouble living day-to-day with it. Physical

issues and things like that. And we have other people that we consider to be half functioning. And of course, that didn't really make me feel any better either. But my wife and I just kind of

“pulled ourselves together. And we dedicated our lives at that point to him and making his life as”

wonderful as it can be. And that's where this mission actually started because he is on the spectrum. And he is this condition is very similar to autism in its individual sense. And so when I began to work into this field, it was something that I told myself initially that this is something that it could be the difference in life and death with my son because he's going to encounter law enforcement

or first responders at some point in his mother and I will not be there. And I won't that to be

a positive encounter. And especially if it's in law enforcement, I want him to survive that encounter and not be misunderstood for what he is and the fact that, you know, we'll discuss that a little bit more in general. But I just wanted to make sure that he was treated just like everybody else

“just treated. And that's where we started. How did the sensory issues manifest themselves outwardly?”

He is, he's verbal, but he's not verbal in the way that most neurotypical individuals communicate. He kind of sometimes he makes up his own words. He gets easily frustrated when he can't communicate.

And he started off the first several years when he was in school communicating with essentially

his iPad and a program that they have on there that allowed him to say words and, you know, compile sentences and things like that. And now he's 15 now and he can effectively communicate with the family and with some close friends because those of us that are around him all the time, we know what he wants. If he's hungry, if he's, if he's tired, we can tell. But if he was out without us, his ability to communicate with someone would be a challenge to say the

least. And that's, that's a similar trait with with many individuals with sensory issues. Some of them are completely non-verbal. Others are are semi-verbal like my son. But we also, if you look at him, some of his mannerisms, he stems from the time he wakes up until the time he goes to bed. And if you're not familiar with what stemming is, it's a way that individuals with sensory disorders can effectively try to calm themselves, especially if they have

what we call a sensory overload. And my son, he grabs items and he spins them in his hand. And that's the way that he calms himself. And it's just become the way that he is. For individuals who aren't familiar with that, when they see him in public, sometimes they stare and they kind of gawk. And I can understand that to an extent. But that's just the way that he deals with his environment. So that, in addition to a few other minor things, other than that,

he's a very healthy young man. The lot of our life, absolutely the happiest individual I've ever been a part of. And he truly completes everything that I wanted with us on. I wouldn't try to second of it. Oh, that's wonderful. So after your name, police chief, I understand that you

take us through that and why that's pertinent here?

“Yeah, I had one of our former city council members who was elected to our state”

House of Representatives and her name is Lee Hullsey. And she also has a son with ass burgers, which is a very high functioning kind of an offset of autism. And she reached out to me one day and says, I have a a local physician that would like to speak with you in reference to training the police department on interactions with people with sensory issues. And at the time, I really didn't really think that much of it. And I said,

well, sure, absolutely. I'll be more than glad to sit down with him. So he came in and we had a a very good about an hour long conversation and his name was Dr. Julian Mahah. And he is a emergency physician here in Birmingham. And he explained to me and showed me the numbers of negative interactions between individuals with sensory issues like autism and PTSD. And the interactions they have with law enforcement and more disturbingly that a lot of these

interactions end up with the individuals either being hurt or actually killed. And it kind of made my blood run cold because the first thing I thought about was was calling my son. And he said, it's our mission at this point to train as many law enforcement and first responders and interacting with these individuals to make sure that we're treating them with the respect that they deserve and that we're doing it in a safe manner. And I said, sign me up.

“Absolutely, let's get on this now. And from that point, it's pretty much all I think about”

and it's all I do. It's a huge factor in my life and it's been an amazing, amazing journey so far.

We still have a lot of work left to do. But when you have a special needs child, in addition to just loving them and taking them back and forth the doctor's appointments and in helping them overcome challenges that a lot of people really don't focus on. But I can do that as a father, but I also wanted to find a way to make his life better. And to change his world. And this has been an absolute godstand for me to be able to have this

outlet, to be able to plug into and we're literally changing the world every day. And it's something that I'm very honored to be a small part of. What's the training consists of and how has it been

received or utilized? Well, first of all, let me give you a brief background on the actual

the organization that a partner with that does the training and it's called culture city and that's spelled with a K. Because we're changing the culture of this world one step at a time. And Dr. Mahan, his wife, who is also a physician here in the Birmingham area, founded this program because they too have a son that's autistic and they realized that not every public venue was either welcoming or accommodating to individuals with century disorders. And that was not acceptable to them.

They had experienced it firsthand, like most parents do in some venues where we should all feel welcome. And so they began this program and it's been an incredible success. And now they're the largest nonprofit sense for your work as a awareness organization in the world. And they're based here in Birmingham. And it's a fantastic program and I encourage everybody to go online, go to the website at culturecity.org, and give them a look. It's amazing the lives that they're impacting

every day throughout the world. But fast forward to the first responder program, basically what we did is we work together as far as how do we how do we approach law enforcement

and train them in something that they've really never had to deal with before. As law enforcement,

you're expected to wear many, many hats and be adaptable and the modular be ready to

“shift and pivot and do whatever you need to do. And this is no different. And it's just another”

hat we have to wear. But at the same time, we did not want to go to deep in the weeds with this because we're dealing with law enforcement, not medical professionals. So basically what we did is we took a program that we probably could spend a week on and we've narrowed it down to a little over an hour. And one of the reasons why we do this is law enforcement or extremely busy people. But we wanted

what they didn't need to know. And most of the almost all the feedback that we've we've received from this has been incredibly popular with law enforcement. They kind of come in kind of skeptical

“and they leave going, okay, how many people have I breeded incorrectly over the course of my career?”

Now that I know about autism and I know about these other sensory issues, because as law enforcement, we're trained when people, we receive a call of person acting erratically, maybe they're off balance, maybe they sound like they might be drunk. In fact, they must be drunk or they must be on

narcotics. And that's not always the case. More times than not, it's not the case. And we don't want

these individuals to be misperseived and misunderstood. And we want them to be also, okay, I took that online training that we took. I see a lot of the same mannerisms that they talked about with stemming. And I don't think this individual is on drugs and I don't think this individual's intoxicated. Maybe I should just approach it from a different perspective and kind of pull another

“few things out of our toolkit to be able to effectively communicate and help the individual. And so far,”

we've been credited with several hundred lives saved as a direct response to this program. And we're very, we're very proud of that. And unfortunately, the numbers continue to go up with negative interactions between law enforcement and those were sensory issues. If you Google or do a search on law enforcement and autism, you'll see a lot of negative interactions. And they're still occurring. So that, that just reinforces this mission that we're on together

and that we do have a lot of work left to do to get this training out all across the country and eventually the world. Well, it seemed to me like just with a number of people with century issues and with autism just going up dramatically and then more and more be, you know, warmer adults having those issues that it it seems so logical that we'd want our law enforcement to really be aware of it and to be able to spot the signs. But it makes all the sense of the

world that that maybe was something that was hidden and people, you know, an officer might not notice because you're totally, I see what you're saying. Like some of the behavior would present like someone on drugs or who's drunk. And then that that takes someone down a different path in terms of, you know, in terms of an officer, kind of different path on how to deal with that. So what are some of the specific in the training? What are some of the tools or mindset that you give

officers to try to change the way they interact with that person? Well, the first thing we do is

we give them a basic foundation on what sensory issues are, what infant, what is autism? What is PTSD? What is early onset dementia? We give them a basic foundation and then we kind of build from there and one of the first things that we make sure that they under that they do is observe. Look for repetitive, ticks, repetitive physical movements, repetitive verbal cues that you could go, you know what? I've been watching this individual for a minute or so and I'm beginning to see a

pattern here and for individuals that are own narcotics or intoxicated, that's not something that you'll see. And then we give them some training on how to effectively and safely approach these individuals in a way that is not perceived by them as a threat or make them

“in fear of the officers. We want that to be a positive encounter and sometimes you have to approach”

slowly and kind of gain their trust and let them be comfortable with this officer and their presence.

But we also, one of the most important things that a lot of our trainees did not know is how the

environment that we create as first responders can negatively affect these individuals and it's something as simple as the the red and blue lights on your police car. A lot of these individuals will have over sensitivity to light in these the way the police vehicles and all emergency vehicles are lit nowadays. That is it's painful sometimes for me to pass several police cars on the road and now we blind it. It's different to just take you to go. It's yeah. Yeah, gone of the

rotator. Well, it's it's all, you know, as bright as we can get it. And for these individuals,

And then if we get several police vehicles on the scene and then we call for the fire department

“and the fire department shows up with the big fire engine with the diesel fumes. Then we bring”

an ambulance, same thing. All those fumes can physically be painful these individuals. Noise, touch. There's so many different things that we we we share with our trainees and let them understand, hey, when you get on the scene of something and you you've made this determination that, hey, this might be an individual with a sensory condition, hey, why don't we bunk these lights down or maybe we shut a couple of these cars off and we don't shine our flashlight in their face.

And we turn our radios down a little bit. You take your sunglasses off. Make eye contact with them. Just those little things can create a much safer and calming environment. So that way we can continue to build a rapport and figure out, okay, what can we do to help this individual and get them back to where they're loved and cared for? So I'm blown away that you said that there's been hundreds of, probably, deaths avoided in this. And I would think that I'd be

interested in feedback from officers because you know, the vast majority of not all officers

never want to take a life or inflict harm. That's a tragedy all the way around. And particularly

if someone realizes that it was someone with a sensory issue rather than a really bad actor, it makes that tragedy a lot more tragic and painful for the officer. Have you kind of any feedback from that aspect, from officers? And then secondarily, are there any stories that come to mind as to where this is super effective that you can kind of help us envision how this training is saving lives? Yeah, absolutely. The feedback that we've received has been outstanding.

And I still receive emails to this day from individuals who have gone through the training that are friends of mine at agencies throughout the country and go and hey, Brad, just wanted to let you know that that culture city training, it made a difference yesterday. We didn't this or we did that.

“And that just makes my heart just happy. That's what I want to hear because there again,”

when I want to see that and I'm hearing these stories of how the officers interact with these individuals, I'm thinking of my son. And I'm thinking, that's someone else's son or daughter or husband or wife that is being treated the way that they should be treated and that law enforcement is making every effort possible to be able to do that and make that a positive engagement instead of a negative one. As far as a story, a good story, we actually had it here in my agency about two

weeks after we completed our training. We were the second agency in the entire country to have this

training right after Salt Lake City, Utah PD. And it was about two weeks after the training. And we received a call at our dispatch center of a vehicle that was parked in the roadway blocking a major intersection and an individual seemed to be extremely agitated and indistress that was in the vehicle. And this was on a, I believe it was on a Saturday, a prime traffic. It was causing a lot of issues. So the officer approached and did exactly what he was trying to do. He gave it a minute or two

and observed and watched. What am I dealing with here? And he knew that he had a very agitated and indivit or distressed individual, but he didn't know exactly why. But he said something told me that this is not going to be something that's fueled by a controlled substance or alcohol. He goes something just told me that this was something different. And over the course of the next

“I believe it was an hour. He started to make communication with the individual, which was very important”

to get him to kind of calm down a little bit. We want to de-escalate as much as possible. We want that to be a calm and a safe environment. And it took him a while. And the other officers showed up and they helped where they could. And fast forward to about an hour later, the individual was communicating in a positive manner with them, was coherent, was not exhibiting any of the signs of the anger and distress that he had when officers go up and expressed his desire that he would

like to go to the hospital and if we could contact his wife. And we said absolutely, because we had an ambulance and the fire department was there. So he got out of his vehicle and walked over to

And he said, "I know this is going to sound a little weird, but can I get you a hug?"

“He goes, "I just want to thank you for not killing me." And Malsra was just kind of taking a back”

and of course he gave him a hug and then he went above and beyond and gave him his personal cell phone number and he says, "If you need anything, you call me. Let me know." So this all happens and they clear the roadway and the individual goes to the hospital to get checked out. And it was about five or six o'clock later that night my wife received a phone call and it's from this individual's wife. And come to find out my wife and his wife for friends. And she called to do called and wanted to

thank me for what happened. And of course, I had no idea what she was talking about because

off duty police chiefs we always get called off duty in the middle of the night with bad news.

But rarely do somebody call me with good news. So I made a quick call and said, "Hey,

“can somebody fill me in on what this happened and what happened?" And they gave me the run down on”

everything and I just had chills. I said, "You've got to be kidding me. This is two weeks later at my department and everything that we train these officers in, played a major role in this." So as I we were speaking with his wife, she goes, " Brad, I don't think you quite understand the magnitude of this." She goes, "He has several different conditions and he's on different medications for them and sometimes he builds up a tolerance to those medications and they quit working." And that

allows him to kind of slip into the arena where we found him and to stress, agitated. And she said, "This has happened before and it happened in another agency and that when the officer showed up, they did exactly what we train our officers not to do and they immediately pulled their weapons on him and were surrounding him, yelling at him. Nothing positive was going to come from that. And one of

“his wife's friends contact us is you need to get over their quick because the police are around him”

and it's not looking good. And thankfully they were able to successfully navigate that encounter. And that's when it hit me. I said, "If it wouldn't have been for this program, that could have been some of my officers with their weapons pointed at an unarmed individual." And sometimes that's how we see that sometimes that's how we're all human and we're going to make mistakes and police officers aren't perfect. And that's how Nick bad things happen, especially when weapons are deployed on

something where they shouldn't be deployed. So it was an incredible feeling to know that we made a

difference two weeks out of the gate with this program. Yeah, that's what great evidence of this program and what it can do. That's awesome. So something else you've done for your community is to have a mobile sensory room created. Can you talk about that and how you as use it? Yeah, absolutely. This was another thing that we learned from culture city and culture city. One of the things that that we do is we were very pro dice bases and I know that's become a cliche term with a lot of

people. But in the sense for your awareness and inclusion community, it's a very big deal. And from there beginning, when they were training people in public venues and like sports arenas, baseball fields, baseball parks, football stadiums, we train those individuals to interact with these individuals at, you know, just like we do with law enforcement, they're trained to be able to observe and go, okay, maybe this, we need to move them to someplace that's quiet,

that's maybe a little bit darker. It's soothing. It's calming. So that's where the century rooms came into play. And we have those in, I want to say hundreds of locations throughout the country and throughout the world now, but culture city wanted to go one one step further and there are a lot of venues and a lot of like outdoor concerts and festivals where you don't have brick and mortar buildings where we can have a sensory room installed. So we came up or they came up with the idea

of maybe we'd get a cargo trailer and we outfit it exactly like an a sensory room in any other location and we can transport that to any place in the country. And culture city has has truly

to all the major sporting events to superbowl the world series racing with the world cup starting this month. We're going to have a century mobile century rooms in every major venue and that'll be a place where they can, where these individuals can go and, and kind of escape the, the hectic pace, the loud noises, anything that might be bothering them. And so I saw the success of that firsthand and decided, hey, that might be something that I would like to do because in our community

here in Helena, we have a lot of outdoor events, a lot of concerts and festivals and we don't have a space to have a sensory room. So I went to our city council and with the idea and I said,

“look, I think this would be very much worth our effort and they approved it very thankful that they”

did approve it and we became the first law enforcement agency in the country that has a mobile

century room and to this day even with the the current chief and the police administration or continuing that legacy that we helped build by making deploying that thing a weekend requests for it almost every week and in every public venue or public thing that we have here in the community, it's deployed, especially here with the Fourth of July coming out and with the 250th deliberations that are going on now, fireworks are going to be very prevalent and when we got a

one event that has fireworks, we see a huge increase in interest and use of the century room, especially with veterans and other law enforcement who might have PTSD or extrasensitivity to that and they're able to come in there and sit down, it's a it's a calming environment, we had

beanbag chairs, we have lights, we have a great just incredible things that they can do to calm

themselves down and then they can leave and go right back out and join their families and be just fine, so that's something we're very proud of. Oh, even beyond just a law enforcement angle, that's fabulous. So Brad, you know, because you guys go around the country and train more than just law enforcement, but like sports facility staff and because of that you and your son

“ended up having a great father's son moment, can you share that story with us?”

Yeah, absolutely. Um, I had the honor of going to Denver, Colorado. I think it was in probably 21 or 22 and training all the major league baseball security staffs from all the different teams. And I give a presentation, and part of my presentation is, is why am I here? Why am I doing this? And I sleep off with that and I have a photo of my son and I and we're both wearing our boss and red socks here, because I am a huge boss and red socks fan. And anybody that's in my house

has no choice, but to also be a boss and red socks fan. And my son absolutely loves any type of sports, baseball, football, basketball, absolutely loves it. So, and I told everybody when they saw that photo, I said, I know I've just ostracized myself to the majority of the people in this room

“now, going who I'm loyal to. But, um, if they all kind of got a good laugh at it and I said, let's”

move forward together and I said, go socks and got a chuckle. So, after the event, um, I had all the teams would come up and that we were, we were chit chatting and the very last people that came up to me were the security staff for the red socks. And they said, uh, Brad, um, number one thank you for the training, but they said number two, um, we want you to come to Fenway and we want you to bring your son. And I said, I'm sorry, what? And he goes, uh, correct me if I'm wrong, but

he's never been to a major league, uh, sporting event. I said, no, and I said, it's just for the reasons

that I talk about in my, in my presentation is that, um, we don't know how he's going to act, or how he's going to react, how the environment might affect him. And, uh, they're again, I'm a more afraid of how people are going to perceive him. Are we going to get kicked out or are we going to be stared at? And they said, no, this is our house. We want you to be welcome. We want him to be welcome. And we want to make it special. And they said, pick any game and come

up. And of course, I, my lips started quivering to had a little tear in my, I'm thinking, this just can't beat. And sure enough, they called me the following week and said, have you picked a game yet?

And, um, they absolutely laid out the red carpet for my son, um, medicine, the gay, um, VIP treatment, the entire way, got to see every, every part of the stadium. And for someone like me, that was just absolute heaven. And, but to be there experiencing that with my son, um,

“was, was something I'll just never forget. We even, we got, they got to seats up on the,”

the green monster. And it was he, I've got photos of him. And I think, I don't know if I shared them earlier. But, um, those are some of my favorite photos of the smile on his face, uh, when he's there. And they even went, what's so far is to take us to the wallburgers location there. It's been way, and one of the, one of the wallburg brothers, uh, called us, and at FaceTime, and wanted to speak with my son and welcome just to the restaurant and gave in some gifts.

And it was just absolutely over the top. And it's something that I will always be thankful

to the red socks for, uh, because that's a moment that, um, when you have a special needs in foul, sometimes you, you don't have those experiences, uh, with your, with your kids, and they allowed me to have one of the most special days of my life with my son. And, um, it's something I'll always, always cherish. That's fabulous. Um, as we wrap up, I wanted to hear about, um, you know, you've kind of taken, you, you had, you got involved with the legislature,

right, and trying to pass some legislation related to this training. So you can you tell

“you about that? I'm sorry, tell us about that. And what was like working with lawmakers on this?”

Yeah, it was something that, um, rep, uh, Lee Holes, he our representative, and I began working on early on in the fact that we wanted this training to be one thing, but we wanted to have a state law mandating this training. So with the assistance of Culture City and some other elected officials, we were able to make this happen in record time. And in 2023, they passed what was called the Cade Noah Act, which mandated this training for all law enforcement. And,

uh, in 2024, we went further and mandated this for all fire and EMS workers. So the full spectrum

of first responders were being trained in this. And they even did the honor, um, to me, uh,

for naming one of those bills after my son. Oh, and that was, uh, an absolutely huge thing for me, and I actually had it hanging here in my office that, um, I can look at that every day and with the pictures of me and my son and my family with the governor when she signed it, um, that was probably one of the proudest days of my life. But more than anything is that Alabama is leading the country and in this and it's thanks to our representatives who are compassionate about this program and

understand how important it is for all of these families in the state of Alabama and everywhere that they know that their loved ones are going to be treated with the respect that they deserve.

“Yeah. Well, in our organization, one of the founding principles is just around dignity. And I think,”

you know, there's so many policies that we pursue that that are in order, the purpose of them is to just either recognize or restore the dignity that every person has. And in this case, I mean, you know, folks who do no fault of their own, you know, really have a challenge to having a positive, you know, potentially they have a positive interaction with law enforcement, in this case. You know, to recognize, hey, we're going to meet you where you're at and try not to trigger you further.

Sure, it does respect them and recognizes the dignity that they have. And I'm so excited for you. Like everyone should be able to have their life's work be something that involves their kids, you know, or helps further the interests of their children. Some are really happy that you've had that experience. Me too. It's been probably my career in law enforcement was extremely fulfilling. And I was very honored to have hold the position that I did. But nothing has given me

the purpose and the pride that this program has. Well, Brad, I really appreciate you. One, I appreciate the work that you've been doing, all these decades. But I appreciate just sharing your story with us and telling our viewers about it. Thank you very much for having me on and a very much appreciate the, the time. Well, folks, if you like this episode and would like to stay connected with the podcast, be sure to like our channel as well as following us on Facebook and

Instagram and YouTube. And always remember liberty and freedom are easily taken for granted. Don't

take it for granted. Go out there and defend freedom liberty. Thanks for joining us and we'll see on the next episode. Thank you for listening to American Potential. You may listen to more

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