Katie Bagosy: Turning Loss into a Mission to Fight Veteran Suicide

that he shared with me. And when we had our meeting with all of the wives before they returned, you know, I brought it up and I said, I know that he's coming home and he's going to be struggling what should I do. And a lot of the wives were almost upset with me and they said, you know, you don't know that he's not home yet. But there was one

“wife who agreed and understood and she said, you know, I believe you and she was actually”

a marine veteran as well. So she had that personal experience and we're still friends today, actually.

And so Tom returned home and basically, you know, I looked, I listened to what they had told me to do,

which was to give him some time to come home and decompress and then after, you know, some time if things aren't getting better, then go ahead and reach out to his command. So I talked to him about it and he told me who in his command that he felt like I should be reaching out to. We got him home. Americans are capable of achieving extraordinary things when they have the freedom and opportunity to do so. This is American potential. Welcome to the American potential podcast. I'm your host,

David Trump. So we're coming to you live from Jacksonville, Florida. You can see, sunny and windy, Jacksonville, Florida. The site of yet again, another one of Americans for

Prosperities, America's 250th celebrations. And we're doing it today on a peer with the backdrop of the

“USS Orlick, the USS Orlick served it, you know, from, I think it was 40s to the 80s, but”

one of the things that did is that it protected pilots in the Vietnam War. So it would protect the planes that were taken off and protecting service members. And our guest today, Katie Bagosi is a CVA engagement director, a concerned veterans for American, for those of you who haven't tuned in all the time. She's one of our engagement directors, but what's brought her to this work of serving members of the military and veterans families is a tragic story of her own that she

lived through an experience. It's going to talk to us today about how she has gotten involved and what she's doing as her career now to help men and women who are struggling after serving in the military. So, Katie, thank you so much for joining us. Well, thank you for inviting me on. Yeah, well, I, uh, I want to hear about, you know, your story and your, in your husband's story

“and they're intertwined here at that's what brought you to work for concern veterans from”

America to be dealing with veterans issues and especially mental health issues. So we start off like how you and your husband met and kind of where it went from there. Yeah, so we actually met the summer after our junior and senior years of high school. And I was working with one of his friends and, you know, we would all just hang out together and we started off his friends and I was actually trying to set him up with some of some of my friends and co-workers and within a couple of months,

I, I really started to like him and found out that he liked me and we dated on enough for about four and a half years and then we got married. So, yeah, that, we got married in May of 2005. Nice. And so, and it was he already in the military? He was not now. And so he actually joined a

couple of years after he graduated high school and he was a third generation Marine. And so he,

you know, that was something that he ended up doing following in his father and his grandfather's footsteps and he was, he was proud to be a Marine. Nice. So, um, so he joins up. I imagine he did a play pretty quickly after you guys got married. So, he, he, his first deployment was very quickly after we got married, but it was over to Okinawa. So, his first war deployment, our son was about nine months old and he was in Iraq from, I think, September of 2006 to April

2007. And he came home with a traumatic brain injury and PTSD. And so, that started the rest of our journey and then in 2009, he ended up going to Afghanistan as well. Oh, wow. Even with the brain injury. Yes. Wow. Yeah. That's very common. Yeah, that's unfortunate. What, um, so we came back and he started to see issues. And, you know, I think you'd say that he recognized the PTSD and you guys saw some evidence of that. How was that realization? What did that look like?

So, I knew that he was coming home for my rack with PTSD because of some of the stories that he shared with me. And when we had our meeting with all of the wives before they returned, you know, I brought it up and I said, I know that he's coming home and he's going to be struggling. What should I do? And a lot of the wives were almost upset with me and they said, you know, you don't know that. He's not home yet. But there was one wife who agreed and understood and she said,

personal experience and we're still friends today, actually. And so Tom returned home and basically, you know, I looked, I listened to what they had told me to do, which was to give him some time to come home and decompress and then after, you know, some time if things aren't getting better, then go ahead and reach out to this command. So I talked to him about it and he told me who and his command that he felt like I should be reaching out to. And we got him help, you know, he was getting

counseling. He was on medication. But he wasn't always consistent with it because he didn't

like the way that it made him feel. And then in addition to that, he wanted to go over from

“10th Marines to Marsak and his command at the 10th Marine said, hey, listen, like if you want to go over”

there, we need to see that you can be off of your meds for two months. And so he stopped taking them, he went over to Marsak and then he just never got back on them, um, at least not until after he came back from Afghanistan. When PTSD manifests itself and when you, you know, he have a loved one with it. What is, where's some of the signs? What does it look like? I mean, I think it's different for everybody, right? But Tom came home and I said from the beginning that the man that I married,

died in Iraq and I didn't know the man who came home in his place because he was such a different

person. He was cold. He was mean. He was disconnected. And so he would get very angry, very easily. You know, there were things even when he was driving and he would have, you know, almost a panic attack because he'd see something in the road and, you know, it would trigger a memory or different things. And so, um, you know, at some point though, it was just where the day-to-day was, it was hard for him. He started drinking more, you know, and just looking for other ways to cope.

And so, you know, when he came home from Afghanistan, though, he was a different person again. And the way, yeah, the way that I described it is that it was like he was human again,

but he didn't know how to handle it. And so, the emotions that he had were so overwhelming,

“that he struggled in a very different way. And I think that that was probably even harder for him”

than coming home from from Iraq and being a little disconnected. Wow, yeah. So he came home from Afghanistan to start up with the treatment again. So he took a couple of weeks of leave because he came home right before Thanksgiving. And in January, he did start up with treatment, because we talked about it. And he knew that he needed it. And they put him on Gata Pentin, and it spiraled him downward very quickly. And I remember one day, he looked at me. He was sitting

at the computer and he's like, Katie, it's not my fault. And I was like, what are you talking about? What's not your fault? He's like, it's the medicine. It's making me crazy. It's not me. And there was like, isn't it the opposite of what it's supposed to do? Yeah, yeah, for sure. But a lot of times they're just throwing pills and you know, playing Russian roulette and let's see what

“helps. You know, and they're spending 10, 15 minutes with these guys and not actually,”

like listening to them and trying to solve the root problem. And it's all just about masking and medicating and, you know, unfortunately, that was not a medicine that helped him. And he felt that sense of relief. And then he was looking to try and to get help. But there was a lot that was going on. And so there had been a situation actually at his shop where they decided to take away his guns. And then it taking away his guns twice. And I knew that things were getting bad when

he allowed me to talk to his command and to his doctors because that's just something you don't do in the military, right? You don't have your spouse or anybody in your family come in and speak on your behalf. And his command promised me that they were going to get him help and they turned around and they told Tom that they thought that he was faking it and they wanted to fix him. And unfortunately, that did not help the situation. And so while they were telling me they were

going to help him, it was happening. He was getting worse. And so I went with him to see his psychiatrist. And when we walked out of that office, Tom said to me, I told you he wouldn't listen to you. He doesn't care. All he cares about is his job. And so I ended up writing his doctor a letter. And I told him, you know, how I felt about how that meeting went. And I said, if you're not the person to help my husband, then please make sure that he gets a different doctor.

So Tom died on Monday, May 10th of 2010. And that Friday, May 15th, the referral came in for another

getting this saving help that he needed, you know? Yeah, that's going to be enormously frustrating. Yeah. Take me through the day that he died. There's some events that occurred there that

“kind of led up to it. Can you kind of take us through that to the extent that you feel good about it?”

Yeah, absolutely. So it actually started the day before. And we really don't have time to get into all of it. But, you know, he was he was pretty suicidal. And May 9th that year was Mother's Day. And so I got to the point where I told him, I was like, Tom, there's no way that I can stop you from doing this as there. And he said, no. And I said, Bill, you can't do it today. You can not do that to your mom. You need at least wait until tomorrow. And he said, okay. And I knew that the next

day he had a meeting set up because of a prior incident. And he was going to be in the deployment health center. And so that morning, we woke up and I asked him, I said, you know, you're already going to be there. Can I call your psychologist and talk to her? And he said, no, but you can call out in town and ask if there's any doctors that I can go and see. So I made some phone calls and they were like, he's Marine. We can't see him. Yeah. And I said, well, pay out of pocket. And they're

like, no, and I did have one person say, if he wants to come here, then he needs to make the phone call. But I knew he wasn't going to do that. And so I had the decision to make. And I knew he came home, no matter what I did, there was a 50, 50 chance of him ending his life. And if I didn't do everything,

I could, then I would never be able to live with myself. Right. So I called his psychologist.

And I told her, I said, off the record, he has a gun. And he is suicidal. And he will do when say anything he can to get out of your office. And if he gets out, then he will kill himself. And

“she said, I believe you. I'm going to go down and see if he's still in the building. I'm,”

and we're going to get him the help that he needs. Next thing I know, I'm getting a phone call from him. And I couldn't understand what he was saying at first, but it was something about a gun. And then he said, Katie, I love you. And I don't think I'm ever going to see you again. And I yelled into the phone. And I told him I loved him. And I don't know if he heard me. And to this day, I don't know why I didn't call him back. I think I was afraid that he wouldn't answer.

But I called his therapist and I said, what is going on? And she called me right back. And she said, he's okay. He was secured. He's on his way to the hospital. They'll call you tomorrow. And I was like, what does that mean? He's secured. And she's like, he's fine. He's okay. He's alive. He's safe. He's like, okay. So it didn't sit right with me. And I called my parents and his

“parents and I updated everybody. And both of my parents were like, you need to call the hospital”

and figure out what's going on. But I couldn't, I just couldn't do it. And I just had that, you know, she told me that everything was okay. I have to just trust that. And I was rule follower. They're going to call me. So several hours later, I had a knock at the door. And I looked out and I saw government plates. And I was like, oh, they must be here to ask me questions about how he had a weapon because they had taken his guns by twice. Like, why did he have a gun? So I went, I opened the door

and I saw what uniforms they were wearing and that there was a navy chaplain. And the first thing

out of my mouth was, is he dead? And they asked if I was his wife and I said, yes. And I just fell on the ground because I knew what was coming out of their mouths next. And they said, on behalf of a grateful nation, we regret to inform you. And I didn't understand the chaplain sat down with me. And I was like, I don't, I don't understand what happened. She told me he was okay. I said, did he do it or did they? And she, and the chaplain said, he didn't have the answers. He didn't know what happened and

transpired, but he knew that Tom had been the one to end his life. And the next thing I did was I called my dad and I said, I need you to come down and he drove down to to take care of us because I was not okay. Yeah. Oh, I would, would a tragic day. And there's so much that led up to it. Yeah.

And unfortunately, there's always hindsight. You know, and I know that's what's kind of animated

on that day? And now kind of made it your life's work. Tell me, immediately afterwards, and what you've been doing to make a difference. Well, you know, it's funny. I, I don't feel like I've done anything, really. I just, I don't feel like I've done enough. And I don't think I will ever

feel that I've done enough. Sure. And I've always been an advocate for mental health since he died.

There's a lot of stigma around suicide and I've just completely rejected it and I've shared our story. And one thing that is comforting to me is that I've had people either tell me directly or through somebody else that they're alive today because of Tom and our story. Well, that's fabulous. Yeah. And yet it's like I said, it'll never be enough. So I've done a lot of different things, but I would say that we're a mat right now because I, I'm a firm believer that everybody has a story

that somebody else needs to hear. Yeah. And I'm working on a project where I'm trying to tell veterans stories. And they're especially their VA stories because, as we know, our VA is very broken. Belle, fails a lot of veterans. It does. It absolutely does. And I've watched what happens when somebody's actually seeking help and not getting it. And so for me, if I can then go ahead and showcase other other people's stories and let them either tell it directly and some of them don't

“want to be on camera. So tell me your story and then I'll share it because I think that the more”

people are out there and aware of what's happening, then the more that we can move the needle forward. So that's one of the things I'm doing and I really it ties into my work with CBA because we're working on the Veterans Access Act, which we give more community care and better, better standards and more access to veterans for their healthcare. What have you found in your work to be one of the best ways for you to connect with family members or veterans to try to help save their lives?

So we did recently a Memorial Day episode and we were talking to one of your colleagues in fact. And you know, you highlighted that between the Veteran Community and Active Duty, I mean 50 service members take their own life every day. I mean, that is mind blowing and just it's it's beyond tragic. So, you know, you're working to help shape you, hopefully bend down that curve.

“You know, what have you found to be effective in what's going to your go to to try to help others?”

You know, I think it really just depends on the situation. And honestly, there isn't a blanket statement that, you know, one size fits all for everybody. But I think listening to people's stories, letting them share and validating that their voice matters and that their service matters

is is always helpful. Giving them an opportunity and a platform. And that's one of the

things I think that we get to do with CBA is to elevate their voices so that people can hear them, especially when it comes to lawmakers, right? Yeah. And then there are times where it's people have come to me and they're like, what do I do in this situation? And I don't always have the answer, but because of my community and network, I usually can just reach out to somebody and be like, okay, this person's going through this right now who has a resource for them. And that's one of

the things too is that, you know, just being able to collaborate with other organizations and people

“who have the answers because different people have different needs. And I think that collaboration”

is the, it's going to be a game changer. Yeah. So what you're saying is one of the keys, which makes sense is that help folks realize that they're not alone, they're valuable, that, and that there's others that want to help them and kind of join them in this fight or in this walk of life. I mean, it is really, it's, it's scary to be. I, you know, I have a bunch of boys, teenagers, a few, 20s and stuff. And, you know, as a kid, I was wanting to go in the military,

I didn't, but, you know, I've always thought about, like, for them, even my girls too, you know,

like, there's so many good things about it, but like this aspect of it terrifies me when it comes to kids. Like, you know, you know, or just something that I love. Like, it totally terrifies me. It's part of the number one thing. More so than than being harmed in combat or something, it's the thing that, like, I don't understand, and that I don't know that I can protect them from. I mean, I could be a resource. I guess at some point, but if they were to go down that road and choose that career,

I'd be enormously proud of them. I'd be really scared for them. So I don't know, what would you say to somebody who's thinking about, you know, a loved one or kid wants to go into the military? Well, I think that there's the mental health crisis that extends way beyond the military, and our young people are suffering in so many ways already. So, you know, I think what we need to

good job of that. We train them to go to war. We don't train them to come home, and some of that is going to start with the stigma and erasing that beyond the military as well, right? We just need to be able to open, openly have conversations about mental health and understanding that everybody goes through something at some point in time. So then, you know, you're talking about, hey, you're fear, right? It's more about the mental health piece than it is to have something happen

in combat. Right. Well, when you think about how many have died because of suicide versus

“that combat, I mean, that's a valid, valid concern. So I think it's going to take all of us just around”

at tables and and talk and and collaborate and come up with plans and then actually take action.

And there's a lot of talk, but there's not as much action. And I always say that people are

either mission-minded or their ego-minded, so there's a lot of gatekeeping when it comes to non-profits. Yeah. And we can't be doing that. You have to understand where, what I word that. Where is your comparative advantage? And then looking at other organizations and saying, what's their comparative advantage? How do we come together? But when you're talking about somebody who is thinking about going into the service, I think that that's one of those things that you just

have to be able to prepare yourself, but you need to have a good support system and you need to be

“open about it. You have to have that community. You know, I think one of the reasons that I knew”

that my husband was coming home with PTSD was because he did share things with me that I think a lot of spouses didn't share with their wives. Sure. And so just having that community and building that and really it's going to come down to too. Our government, our military, they have to be more proactive instead of reactive because, you know, Tom died 16 years ago and there hasn't been a whole lot that's been effective. Yeah. And so what are we doing? And I will say this, too.

There are a lot of widows who have some answers because we've seen what happens. There's a lot of patterns and similarities. And we get ignored and we should have a see that the table with the veterans, with the caregivers and with the the surviving family members because when you think about it, well, what went wrong? The ones who are still here, they're still fighting and we're so glad that they are and I hope that they all choose to stay. But maybe we have some

insight from being widows or the families who watched our loved ones struggle and they didn't make it.

“So I think that that's another aspect that should be explored more. Yeah. Well, it seems like”

your essential part of the community that's around that person. And when I hear you saying that

that community is kind of in that support system is essential to getting better outcomes and kind of trying to reduce this epidemic. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for coming on talking, talking, sharing that, your story and Tom's story with us. I hope that your work is so fruitful going for just expands and is so much more and more effective or so proud that you're with us with certain veterans from America that you're with us today. And yeah, I really hope that that you and

then generally all of us can make a real difference for a men and women who've served. Thank you. I really appreciate the opportunity to speak with you and to share our story as well. Thanks. Well, folks, if you'd like this episode and would like to stay connected with the podcast,

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