Rev. Kevass Harding on Breaking Down Barriers to Affordable Housing

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a stand-and-a-gather and empower and empower another organization. Americans are capable of achieving extraordinary things when they have the

freedom and opportunity to do so. This is American Potential.

Hey everyone, welcome to the American Potential podcast I'm your host, David from. Today we're going to be talking about how's it, and in your

“format, I know that this is the topic that particular in your generation that's”

just been a real challenge. People trying to find affordable housing, it's not the same. The American dream is of the same as it used to be. I feel like we're, you know, got it, you know, get a job, get married, and you start having, you know, on your way to home ownership, and that's kind of been disrupted. It seems like. So, I mean, what do you hear? Like, you know, you're of an age,

it's say that I'm quite a bit older, but you're of an age where people are trying to,

you know, should be trying to find their home, and I know a lot of people are struggling with that. Yeah, David, I'm 28 years old, and I've got friends, I've got peers who are looking to buy homes and have been trying for a long time, and, you know, people in my generation have a number of factors to deal with, which as many of them, you know, are coming out of school with stratospheric student

debt to begin with, which is already setting them a little behind when it comes to getting a home, but a lot of my peers are, they want to be homeowners, they want to start that American dream, they want to put their roots down, they want to start families now, but they're struggling to find homes that are affordable, and I've had friends who've been in the market for a really long time who haven't been able to find anything in their price range,

or have had to look at moving in order to find homes in the other places that are a lot cheaper. In fact, I've got a couple of friends who are moving out to Asia, they're looking at the Asian countries in terms of, we want to be able to afford a place, we want to be able to actually own it, and we want to live in a place that, you know, we can do that in, and so they're actually looking at other countries at this point. And, you know, to me, and, you know, I'm like,

well, we need to do what we can to make housing affordable right here in the US and our home country. People shouldn't have to be looking at other countries, because sure, you might look at other countries that have cheaper homes, but they might be missing all sorts of things that we consider liberties. We would, we would consider rights here. You're kind of trading that off for

“affordable housing. Yeah, and I think, you know, we're going to talk today about even in poorer areas,”

like just the basic needs, you know, and how government sometimes is putting up barriers to charities, just helping people have a place to live. So I'm excited for for that conversation. I got a quick, I got a quiz for you. What are you saying? The average cost. The average, I'm sorry, the average price is to buy a new home. Ooh, the average, like across the country. Oh, that's a tough one, because I've seen,

I'm out in Colorado and I've seen some expensive homes here, and that's probably ways into the average a little bit, but I mean, it's, it's got to be somewhere around 350,000 or maybe more. Well, you're close. Plus, okay. So the average cost to purchase an existing or new home is above $400,000, which for many people, you know, that dream of home ownership is just slipping further and further away. One organization in Kansas is stepping up to make home ownership more attainable,

but government barriers have complicated those efforts as they frequently do. Fortunately, the state has recently approved legislation aimed at expanding housing options and reaching access to home ownership. So I want to welcome to the podcast, Dr. Reverend Kevin's partying to talk about his organization, Hope Community Development Corporation, and how this bill will help them even more. Reverend, thanks for so much for joining us.

Thank you for having me appreciate the opportunity. Yeah, well, I appreciate the work that you're doing and I'm excited to hear all about it. Before that, I'd love to hear about, you know, your story of growing up and how that experience

Sure. So I'll kind of step back a little bit in time. Kind of how Hope City see began,

“which started in 2017, but to get to that point to go forward, I'll share my story a little bit,”

not all of it, but it's because of time. But I grew up as a single parent home, my mother worked, two or three jobs. She was a phenomenal woman. Please know that she was a hardworking woman, educated woman. Love me, my brother and sister. She took care of us. Sometimes at times I didn't know we were poor because she took care of us. She met our needs. But what are the struggles that I discovered

quickly was the affordability of housing for my mom looking back now as a man and an adult.

We moved quite a bit. I can count on both my hands how many schools I attended just because we had to move based on the rent increase growing up and the things she had to do to make sure she provided for us. And there were times when she had to keep either a light tone gas on and

“the water on and the basic utilities and necessity that you need to be to provide for your children.”

So that meant missing rent or being late on rent and in that process, you know, she would get that slips in. Thank you. But it's time for you to go, which we now call it the eviction notice. So we had to move not because she wanted to just because those challenges came and then also in my ministry, I've seen the same thing, which families in my own congregation struggling would rent and affordability. And that's how I got deeper into the conversation of how do we

create this platform affordable housing in our community, which we created in 2017 Hope Community Development Corporation. And I will say for those who may need to may look up Hope CDC.

“The legal name is Hope Enterprise Incorporated with the state of Kansas, but we do business as Hope”

CDC and our website is HopeCDC.org. Great. Yeah, hope we're going to go and check it out. So as a young person, you started working in construction, right, with your with your grandparents. Yes. So I most of my summers, I grew up with my, uh, well, because I'm other again single parent, you know, our babysitter because again affordability, child care was, but even then, I'm, I'm telling my age. I mean, stop right quick, Paul. She walked

in on us. So it's recording. That was my office administrator. Sorry about that, Matt. She didn't over recording. So so growing up my grandfather and my grandmother were our child care providers. She, she, she took care of us. They took care of us. So when my mother had been a single parent, mom needed child care, that's where we would go. And actually, that was like, base for me, we would there through the year two, we would come by and stay with our grandparents. But my grandfather was

in construction. So basically, in the summertime, that was my job, riffing, guttering, downspouts,

citing windows, painting, concrete. And so we did all those things. I did all things along with brother cousins and uncle, who was my age. And so he was like a brother. And so that was our work and we got involved. But we were just doing it because we didn't, we wanted to make money, you know, want to buy the best bicycle back in the day or new shoes or jacket. And it also helped me help my mother at times. We would give her the money for utilities, groceries. And those are

some of the things we did. And I'm grateful to my grandfather, my grandmother, and I'm definitely grateful for my mother. Just the thing she did to stand in the midst of that as a single parent in the 70s and 80s and still standing here. You know, she's nearly 80 years old now. I'm 59. So I kind of tell you the age there. And she's still rocking and rolling home owner now. She's she's she's been a blessing to me. But and she's supposed to ministry. At times, I will say she's like uncomfortable

for community and people who are having a hard time with affordability when it comes to housing.

Yeah, I mean, I'd imagine that she's just enormous to proud of the work that you're doing. So I'm going to be a pretty cool thing for her to be able to watch. Yeah, she's she watches, she comets. She'll talk let me know about the designs because we build we we I can break that down later if you like, but we we remodel we build from ground up for homeowners. We then build a stick bill. And then we also do a lot of remodeling. And then we do also now. I love it. We're

working with prime craftmen home here in Wichitaal modular homes. And so I've been showing her

designs for the modular homes that we have coming in Wichitaal on some of our vacant lights.

Lots and she really excited to see how we're making the price of building a home even more affordable along with the ADU units, which we the state fairly, you know, passed some legislations into deposits where we can whereas easier or should say it's the process is not as difficult. The bureaucracy is kind of pushed out the way to allow you even to put ADU units, which are accessory dwelling units in your backyard. And we I love that because it's not only are we

helping with affordability, but we're helping people who may on a home be able to become a landlord and have income and not only helping themselves, but also helping the person they're bringing into that one bedroom ADU unit. So it's I'm excited about the the future of the work we're doing in our community. Yeah, I kind of yeah, I do want to talk about the legislation. But I kind of want to hear

the first how, you know, you're doing some construction, your grandfather, but then you go to college.

“Yes, I mean, how what was your journey to be in the past? I think for asking, so”

I was pretty athletic. I played, I can play any sport, I played baseball, basketball, ran track, but my love was football. And again, with a single parent mom, you know, going to college back in eight is what's not something you just said, hey, where's my college fund? I've ready to go to school. And so immediately in probably middle school, junior week college, junior high and college middle school. Now we, you know, coach was on my ADU. This is your ticket. You're pretty good at this.

And I played both ways, but when you get to college, you got to play one side. So I was a defensive player, strong safely. And I got a scholarship from my high school. I was at southeast high school here in Wichita all the buffaloes. And I graduated and played for the University of Texas, El Paso. You tip when it was in the Wichita conference. Now I sometime I got to forget where they are, but right in the Wichita conference, you know,

Hawaii, San Diego, BYU, Air Force, etc. Mexico, silver member all those. And

“instead of coming back home, because you got to remember, uh, I graduated 86 to 86 to 94.”

Can't graduate and came back became police officer. That was really the era of, uh, just say the notes, say the words that just say no to drugs or just say no. And crack was getting dropped in neighborhoods of academic, my friends who are grew up with was getting the gangs. That's when you had to move these coming out, called color, colors, different words. Yeah. So my mom was like, hey, stay, stay in school. You know, she was thinking about safety, because I'm literally

have friends dying on the street. Goes against. And it's baffled me. How do you die for a street that you don't own? You're laying on the house you live in. You know, it's like, this is my block. And so what I did in the summertime while I was in college in our coaches would

“set us up is I work for construction because that's what I knew. And so I was doing a residential”

commercial, a lot of concrete, a lot of rebar and concrete, uh, El Paso was really growing at time. So we're doing commercial downtown, uh, and making good money. Uh, it was so good. I was like, man, I think I like a trade and construction. But, you know, mom, like, no, you're going to finish

didn't happen. So I, uh, had my degree in criminal justice with a minor in at normal psychology. I came back home. And I became police officer for which top police department.

And in the midst of that, I became the first community police officer. And that's where I got

back into community development. And I was a community policing, uh, instead of being a reactive police officer, you had, you had to be proactive. So me and our team, we would go out and proactively look at how do we make the community better. So I literally literally patrol the neighborhood I grew up in. A lot of police officers like, what are you doing? How you do that? I said,

“I truly believe that if we all patrol our own neighbors, if we would eliminate some of the police”

brutality and crime against in the hate against police officers, because they know you, you know them and you're honest and you're talking to them. And because I had rookies who were one of this, you know, they're, they're made things, let's go get the crack because they was still out there in 1992. And, uh, but my community policing that's open up this new window of remodeling homes, helping seniors, cleaning alleyways out, painting and taking a lot of bathrooms

that were seniors couldn't step over the tub and there's literally ripping them out and putting them where they can walk in, walking tubs and, and I just love that, uh, but in the process of doing that kind of work, uh, God's calling me into ministry, not didn't believe it. I didn't like, no way,

“but uh, that's how I start moving toward ministry and where I am now. Well, while you're working”

at the police officer, you had to help the call and then then you go, do you go get more schooling and yes or had you in the soul? I'm the United Methodist and so when that calling was upon me, I went to my pastor and went to our staff parish team and it's like, hey, I have this call on me,

so they said, well, we'll start the process with you and I preached, but sort of first sermon,

but the process of the United Method is more than this preaching and then say, okay, I'm a preacher, no, no, no, you had to go to localizing school first because I became the youth pastor because I was great, but you still haven't even as a senior pastor, I'm still, that's my gym, it's the young people, uh, it's on the school board for that, but I went from, um, youth pastor and moved to a associate pastor and in that process, uh, through the book of discipline, it was time for me to

I passed all the tests to now go to seminaries, so I went to Philip's stillological seminary, which I commuted from which it all, uh, to in at Oklahoma and then I graduated, it calls the school move to Tulsa, Oklahoma, and so I would drive back and forth down the highway twice a week, spend the night one of those days, so like a Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and uh, graduated, got my master divinity and uh, appointed here where I am now to Delro's United

Methodist Church and in that's where my heart really bursts with more of this, how do we help the community? I started with a LLC thinking I can just do it on the side, uh, but the gravity of the knee and the community and people know that you do that work, uh, you know, I had to pick and choose. Well, it really seems to me like all of your experiences, whether it be working construction, as a child, there, you know, while you're in college to being a community policing officer,

to being a pastor, all of kind of funneled into what you're doing right now. Yes. And so where did

“you get the idea to start the home, uh, I started the Hope Community Development Corporation?”

So I got the idea, well, it was again, a God thing, I'm very, I'm very faith-based person

and I just from the calling for ministry, which I never thought, I thought my ministry was service,

which was policing. I thought I was going, you know, I thought one day I'd be a police chief, you know, but as I got into ministry and into the church, the local church here at Delro's and in the community, because I was, you know, I did the same work as a pastor, did I was doing as a police officer, going into the community? Like, what's going on? What you need? How can we help? And building the church like that? I basically grew the church. I was my first bullet, can these bones live,

uh, bringing new life to a dying church? And that's where I went and got my doctorating community development because you have to be more than a Sunday morning church, but how do you become a

And so I went back to my doctorating community development and me having the background in construction,

“and I ended up getting my general contractor's license. And I started with a LLC, and then I moved”

the way from the LLC and came to the church board and we prayed and I said, "God's put on my heart that we could, we started community development corporation, which are across the country." And ours is hope because it's based out of Jeremiah, 2011, where the text says, "God did not come to hurt our harm us, but rather to give us hope in a future." And I took the word that

word "hope" just jumped at me because, as I put, excuse me, I had to get a little emotional.

When you're a police officer, you see a lot of despair. Yeah, yeah. You see a lot of people with no hope, so that word has jumped out.

“And I said, "Man, there it is, hope." And those are going to be a community development corporation,”

as I said, hope CDC. So when we went to go get the legal entity name from the state of Kansas, they're like, "I would, we can call you, hope." No, no, we don't want to put the 501, C3 together with my team, would just me, I have a hope. Please know, I have a whole lot in the people holding me up, doing this work. I got staff and, uh, subs and vendors. And, uh, so it's not just me, please know that. I want to make sure. So, um, I'm trying to, yeah, so that's, so that's hope.

And once we got our legal name and we got our 501 C status, which was hard, hard, hard, but by Brace of God, we got it. Uh, because again, the bureaucracy of who are you,

“while you want to start this community development corporation, don't we have enough 501, C3s?”

And I'm going, yes, you do, but I'm not about mercy of about justice. And I had to break down that from, uh, Micah, six eight. Uh, and, and Mercy's great. I tell people Mercy is great. Mercy is dealing with the low hanging fruit of ministry, or what I called a down river, or down strain ministries where, you know, you shelter, bookbacks, backpacks, you know, uh, hygiene, my hope and, and the future with Jeremiah, my 2111 was, let's do the justice piece,

which was connected to Micah, which is you go work upstream, which is, let's not just try to give out, you know, something to eat today, but how we can teach them, or show them how to be home be owners and investors and build and build wealth. And so hope was helping other people excel. And so, 2017, this month, August 11th, we became officially a 501, C3 nonprofit hope, CDC, helping other people excel community development corporation. And we were, we've built

how many good Lord, let me just, let me look, look, I'm sorry. No, that's fine. I want to look it up. I mean, don't go ahead. No, I'm at, we're at, we're at 28, uh, tenants will be at 40, will be at 50 by the end of this year. We've, we've built 10 homes. We built one, and we sold to homeowners the rest, we have, we are, we are leasing, but we're designed to be, uh, leased to own our, and then there's something

that we just leased to, but they're all set up to be affordable. And that, and then start. Now, we did get hit, we slowed down because of COVID, which I thought, okay, Lord, this is it. All that hard work. And here comes COVID, it's just a world down. And I couldn't find subcontractors, vendors, no one wanted one to go in no one's house to remodel. It was, uh, it was trying times. Yeah, so you're building and finding housing for folks, really meeting their material needs,

what are some of the barriers that you face, particularly from the government at times,

and trying to do that could work. So one of the, well, I'm back, first, and we're still working

if you are providing humanitarian work like a habitat for humanity, like midnight housing,

we are identical. We just, or we don't have all the, their rules that they have within their own governing board, all because they're, you know, they're much larger, larger, organized like they're national. Uh, and so they got a whole lot more stuff, but we still do the same work. And they have tax exemption for anything they go into for materials. So I'm like, so I applied, and I, leading it past one stage, they denied us. So all last year we pushed to get ourselves exempt,

“but what I think we faulted was we tried to get all non-profit exempt from this, and so they said,”

no, I said, okay, I get it. You're, you're wanting to exempt just those who are doing a humanitarian work of building homes and affordability. And so I, we're literally back in the saddle prepared for this common January, but in the process of that, we, the beauty is we, they get the legislation to pass where we can allow ADU units in backyards and across the state. So, yeah, which was a great

step because it allowed us to bring in modular housing. And so our first four modular homes in ADU

is, uh, all least on one of the residential streets here in Wichita, and they were modeled as we, as we prepared to build prime craftsmanship home, manufacturing company, which is now open, ribbon-cutting was June 25th, Steve Filmar, CEO, phenomenal mentor mines. He has been a blessing with, uh, which is all affordable housing LLC. They allow me to borrow funding from them at low interest of 5%. And so those are some of the things that we, overstep, are, are, had to go to bat

with the state and particularly with the zoning process of the ADU's. I'll get, get back and

hopefully we'll get the tax exemption for humanitarian causes in January, or the this session that's coming up. Yeah, so what, the legislation that was passed, let's say legislature, where were some of the,

“how will that help and, and make it easier for you to get people into homes with. Man, I think it”

will help not only for me, because I'm not in this for me, but for the community, for the people who need access to affordable housing, but also as a resource to help homeowners who have spacious backyards or community areas that they own churches, other churches, say you have a church, but you got 10 acres on and you're just sitting ever cutting it. Now you can put ADU's on those lots. You can now, your church is struggling financially. Well, you now can rent those two,

the foster kids who are aging out. You can rent those two, uh, the, uh, those who are looking to overcome addiction who needs safe park, safe place to live in recovery homes, what we call,

“you have the seniors who are looking for senior housing. You know, you could play, so you have”

college students, which we did this, one of our homes that we built with modular, and because we got this legislation passed, we put an ADU behind it, uh, and now we have a tenant who lives in the, in the, uh, two bedroom, two bathroom home, but we went found a college student who's looking for, uh, space to live. That student now lives in the ADU, helps cost the grass for the senior, who lives in that, uh, place. So it's, it's a, it's a win win. So if you're seeing your citizen,

you have a property where you can't fully maintain it. Hey, we can put an ADU in it right around which is Tolstay University, and allow one of those students set a living in the dorms. They can come living this ADU, but part of their living there is they help you with the basic needs, and you'll take in your basics of, like, bring your groceries in the house, uh, you know, checking on you, making sure you have your prescription, uh, you know, cutting a grass. It's, it's

a win win. And, uh, this is going on right now, uh, because of that legislation getting passed,

barriers. It was out. No, it knocked down zoning, it knocked down while you're doing it. It knocked

“down the bureaucracy of, you got to do this first thing you got to do this, and then you got to”

get to this when, hey, look, all we're trying to do is put the house in the backyard. Yeah, yeah. Uh, you know, and then you're trying to help people and government stop in your from doing it. Yes, they make it in hard, uh, um, or, or people will use the government to make it hard for you. You know, you know, you got, uh, suburbs of coming and go, you know, they old, uh, not in my backyard, literally not in my backyard. Yeah, you're trying to bring this great idea of an opportunity.

And now that's gone, we can, you can be able to 80 you in any city town in Kansas in your backyard. That's wonderful. Yeah, we've been advocating for that kind of legislation all over the country. And one of the ironic things is, uh, you know, a lot of times people think like a Republican lawmakers tend to be, you know, talking about more freedom and liberty, which we told

support. Yeah. And the reality is that it comes to this. And it's like, no, no, no, wait a minute.

Yes, we don't want any of that. So, well, wait a minute. This is my property. I actually do what I want. It's my property. I'm, I gotta pay you property taxes for property that I own. So I'm like, who really owns it? Yeah, I have a mortgage on it. And so it's, it's, um, you know, in the researches out there, we, you know, we, we show from, uh, whether the loss doesn't excuse me, uh,

“California, I believe in Nevada. They went, because they have a major housing problem. So,”

at Washington, and, and the moment they start doing allowing people to put 80 use in their backyard in this, in that environment, uh, income went up for people in the, in, for the county, uh, homelessness went down. They went from no 80 use over 30,000 80 use in one year. Oh, my, wow. Just to make, just because legislation was, you know, they, the rural blocks for move. And so now we have it here in Kansas. And, uh, I'm, I'm excited.

Uh, that was just, we haven't done our website. The first, I'm, I'm sharing it with the church,

first five people, uh, who, who want to use their home, uh, as homeowner, to do a 80 you, uh, they get a grant. They get a grant. Uh, I think it's $5,000. No, no real quote, me, I gotta make sure I don't, don't have to be for me. But it's on our website, David's play the way. Hope cdc.org. Thanks. That's great. People get literally, uh, because we are able to do that now. A year ago, I couldn't do it. That's great. I mean, it's just a real example of

how getting involved in the process and advocating for better, you know, through legislation, advocating for better way doing things or knocking down government barriers can actually make a real difference in people's lives. So, yes, as we kind of wrap up, uh, the people who are now

“have housing available through your corporation. Yes. What are some of things that they say?”

Like, what do, how does that change their lives? Then David, thank you for asking, because that's of the major part. Uh, so when we do affordable housing and you'll see this also on our website, it's that we do wrap around services. So I'm not just providing you a place to live. I'm not just trying to get your rent. I'm not just, you know, I'm not trying to keep it low and get the rent and, you know, I'm trying to make sure you're educated. So we, we have a partnership with

with net hope net where we have a year, yearly class, uh, bridges out of poverty to call to getting ahead. So we have a curriculum where you start in January for a whole semester. We'll feed your children, childcare, feed you, and then we'll go into class for that whole semester from January to May. We have a full-fledged graduation. Uh, we celebrate the impact because we're teaching him financial literacy, which we also do through another class, which is six weeks and we

do that four times a year, which is called Save Matching Girl. And that's partnership with a stand together and empower, empower another organization that we work collected the better. And please know that, uh, it's because of the work we've done with stand together, come along side and literally give us the legs, uh, in the funding along with the Kansas Health Foundation,

and gale us. And we then can literally put these classes on where these students come and they're

“not paying, given the books. No, we're feeding them. We pay for everything because of the grant”

funding. So you have getting ahead, save matching girl, the financial literacy, the home ownership class, which you get certificates. Uh, and so, and you'll see what are those testimonies on our

website, uh, Greg, our first home owner, uh, who's also a member of our church, uh, is, is, is

grateful and thankful and I, you got that his words speak for, but it's this great, uh, knowing that people know that they're going to have safe home, okay. So my last one, I'm doing this without crying, I'm going to get through it is, are lasted, I can't say names because they were, this, this, this young lady was, uh, she was homeless. She was couch surfing and they live in a car and a family would to a shelter called family promise. I partnered with family promises as part of the rapper who

were service would case worker. We built one of our modular homes, brought her, her son who's in middle

school and, uh, one, uh, one, uh, two, three-year-old toddler. And we, we furnished the house with their, she can't, she had no furniture, no, we have a closed closet here, we gave clothes, we gave shoes to the children, backpacks, uh, she's a tenant right now, she didn't know, or say matching girl classes, but what hit me was I, um, went into the house with the, uh, her, her middle school kid who reminded me of me, and he, and he, and he, so how gen joy he said, man, I slept in my own bed.

Uh, all right, took a shower in my own bathroom.

“That's why we do it. Yeah, yeah, from, from couch surfing,”

living in the car in a shelter, having your own home too bad and too bad, where we will obviously work her into being a homeowner of that property. And that child's life is transformed by that, the, the chances of him. Yes, life being better is so much more so, uh, he's in school, he's going to run track, uh, he helps our lawn service people take care of the other modular homes, grass, as we cut the grass.

We do two things for them, uh, to keep their, their, their, their, right, their, he told his, because again, I grew up in this, so we do trash and grass. We cut the grass, and we do the trash service, because I've also learned that if you don't,

the one, the first things that tenants don't pay is their trash service, and you'll back yard as a landlord

“becomes a trash can. Yeah. And that's why people say, look at this horrible neighborhood,”

no, we get more landlords to be honest, faithful, uh, non, non-slum lords. Our communities will be better, and I'm proud to say this community's getting better for our, our opportunity to be a blessing to someone else. And that's because of a hope CDC. That's great. We'll give you the website one more time. So folks want to check out what you're doing. So the website is, I know the old, the old, actually, www dot, hope, H O P E C D C dot org, hope C D C dot org. Oh, Reverend, I, I, I so appreciate like you

chair and what you're doing and the work that you're doing. I, I, I love, like I mentioned earlier, thinking about all the different experiences that you had as a, as a child in a young man and how they have fed into what you're doing now. The Lord, the Lord clearly had a plan. And so it's still, uh, executing that plan. Yeah, you knew what I was doing. And I can, David, you got me on, I'm, I'm a cryer and I'm, and I'm, you maybe start thinking about old, uh, and just, it's like, oh, wow,

okay, hold it together. You're on camera. So, so, man, if you can cut out the tears, please do so. It's okay. So, well, I really appreciate, I mean, I, I, I love the work that you're doing and

and, and for your partnership with some of the organizations that actually were involved with too.

“So, oh, man. Thanks a lot. I'd stand together, Kansas Health Foundation, and I say his name so much,”

but Steve Philmar, who was a former CFO for Coke, who was a part of stand together, but he created,

which is all affordable housing, where it's basically a private funding to help non-profits

borrow from them, still to go into the bank, where it's the interest rate are much higher, and, and so, and what his CFO mind, he can break down, and I can give my plan and my due diligence.

“You go, that's not good. You need to break even at least, you know, you need to make somebody,”

you gotta pay your, you know, pay bills and pay for staff, and so, he's truly been a blessing.

With all all those organizations, I can't even hit one, they, they all been such a blessing. And then the community who just gives out their heart, they see what we're doing, and they go to our webpage, and they don't hate buttoning. Our church supports us. This is my office for Hope CDC. So, this is my ministry. Yes, it's awesome. For everyone, due of the good work, I'm sure the Lord will continue to bless you, and I wish you

the best of luck too. All right. Well, folks, if you like this episode, I'd like to say connect to the podcast. You can sign up for our community app, and be sure to like and subscribe to our

“channel as well as following us on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube. And always remember,”

liberty freedom are easily taken for granted. Don't take them for granted. Go out there and defend liberty freedom. Thanks for joining us, and we'll see you on the next episode.