102: Freedom under missile fire, the Passover story, with Rabbi David Stav

>> Hi, everybody.

Welcome to a new episode of Aschavev Anything.

Today is going to be an episode, not about geopolitics, not about the war. We're going to talk about Pesach, we're on the eve of Pesach. It's coming in just a few days. And this is going to be our last episode before Pesach. And so I have asked and I'm extremely happy that he agreed.

Rabbi David Stav, one of Israel's best known rabbi, is a great teacher. To join us on the podcast to talk about the strange holiday called Pesach. A holiday, everyone has heard of everybody knows about Pesach over.

“But it contains some really profound themes that I think we are too quickly sort of glazed”

over in our usual run of the millsators in Jewish homes. Or if non-Jews are accessing this holiday, trying to understand it, trying to look at it, watching Steven Spielberg's Prince of Egypt, trying to get to the heart of what it is about this holiday. One of the really fundamental pillars, not just of the Jewish calendar, but of the Jewish

consciousness. So today we're not going to glaze over, we're not going to move quickly. We're going to take a little bit of a deep dive. It's worth, I think, our time as a community. Rabbi Stav, as I said, Chief Rabbi of the City of showhums, chairman of Soha.

Soha is a marvelous organization that makes Jewish life accessible to Israelis.

“By promoting a moderate, accessible, rabbinic leadership and public policy initiatives”

throughout Israel, there is a tension here between many Israelis and the state rabbinate. People who have listened to me on this podcast in the past about these issues know that I don't like state rabbinates. They are not a thing that I approve of, generally. I do like Soha's belief that Rabbi serves the community and not that a community exists

to fund the rabbinate. And so I have respected, I have stopped for many, many years. And we coincidentally met while giving lectures to Jews in South Africa and participated, I don't know if I can say this, Rabbi, but on a Safari in the middle of that. I don't have much, I don't think it's, I don't think it's, my people won't be worried,

I don't want to get you in trouble, I don't know, we had a very time together, we had a great time, we saw our elephant herds, we talked about parenting, the usual stuff. Rav Stav is a graduate of Yashivat Mirkazarav in Israel, he holds a smitham meaning rabbinic ordination for day and note as a rabbinical judge from the Chief rabbinate. In 1998, Yashivat Mirkazarav founded the history of Yashivat in Pethikva, that is Yashivat

that includes Army service with the studying, he's a regular colonist, a contributing in the Israeli press, a sawed after public intellectual in Israel. And I'm very pleased that he's here, before we get into the holiday of Passover, I want to tell you this episode has a sponsor, the sponsor asked to remain anonymous, so I can't tell you who it is, but the sponsor asked us to share the following words.

Many thanks to Khaviv for all his insights, and this episode is dedicated to Barbara S from

New Mexico, on the occasion of her second Batmitsva, who with love from her kids and grandkids

Am Isla Elhai. Thank you so much to the sponsor and mezzal to Barbara S, and I would also like to invite everyone to join our Patreon, it helps us keep the lights on, it allows you to be really

“involved in our community, if you want to ask the questions that guide the topics we choose”

to talk about, that's where you do it, there's a great discussion from there, I have learned a lot from in conversations and discussions with our listeners, and you get to take part in our monthly live streams where I answer your questions live, that's at www.patrium.com/askhavivanything the link is in the show notes, and I'll stop how are you, personally I'm fine, National is speaking, we have a lot to work to do, but we are moving in the right direction.

We are moving in the right direction, so first of all, we're going to have you back

to talk politics and geopolitics, because the canister this past week passed a law slightly changing the powers of the rabbinical courts, the questions of religion state matter to me very much, and you are one of the central figures in this country on these issues, but we are not doing that today, that's not, another opportunity, we'll do that, not now, even though it's in our blood and it's what we want to do, but actually Thor's study

is more urgent, just like the thing that you know, I want to show you an anecdote from this week, you know, I came to visit Netania, I was asked to speak there, and one of the

Rabbi how could we celebrate freedom in Pesach, why we will be running between the shelters

and the safe zones and the living room, is this considered to be freedom?

“That was his question, and I think that's the most important topic that today, millions”

of Israelis are asking themselves, you know, today when we are recording that episode, we run to the shelters more than 10 times, and we don't know what will happen next week, but we assume that we have no reason to think that it will be much different, and the

question is how could we celebrate the freedom that Pesach represents under these circumstances?

So, you write various columns in various places, you recently wrote one for the Tsohar Newsletter, in which you pointed out that the Seder begins with a passage hallachma anja, this is the bread of our torment or affliction, and the passage reads now we are here, but next year we will be in the land of Israel, this year we are slaves next year may we be free, the Seder begins with every Jew who participates in the Seder saying, right now we are not in the land of

Israel, but next year we will be, right now we are slaves, but next year we will be free, and I'd like to start by diving into that, because the Seder is a strange animal, it is a full of contradictions, we are commanded in times of great freedom and prosperity and happiness to say we are slaves, and Jews in the middle of the Holocaust, this is something you have written about and under the boot of tyrannical extremists in North Africa and during the massacres

along the Ryan River in the Crusades, were commanded to say, we are now free men and to celebrate

“as if they are free, what is this Pesach, what is this Pesach in which you have to be a slave,”

and you have to be free, you are told that you must say, we literally have to express and say both of these things and all it once, are we free, are we slaves when we are celebrating our freedom and have to run to the bombshell because a ballistic missile is coming in, what are we? Yeah, how do you teach us what this all means? How can there be this contradictions? I think that's the essence of the story of that night and I think that that's the essence of the

Jewish people. First of all, historically speaking, we have to admit that since the exodus from Egypt,

we are counting around 3.3,000 years, most of these years we did not have independent independence. We were running all over the world, we were in Europe, we were in Africa, we were in America, we were in so many places, most of them, it was of the years of our biography, we were not slaves literally but we were under other sovereignty, we did not have any independence. Less than 1000 years in the first temple and a part of the second temple, we had our own

independence. And still, whenever we come to Passover, we say, this is the time of our freedom. What do you mean? It's your freedom. You are slaves, you are slaves in Spain, we are slaves in

“North Africa and other places. How could we say that we are free when we don't have our own sovereignty?”

But to be more to raise the issue that you just mentioned, to be more accurate, it's not only that that, on one hand, in the essence, the myths of the story of Passover, what we will say during the night is how we are praising God and with thank God for redeeming us from the slavery in Egypt. But in the beginning of this ceremony of this ritual, we will say, we will declare now we are slaves, we hope to be free next year. So what's going on?

We thank for the freedom or we are still slaves. And I think that that's one of the most important ideas of Judaism. What happened 3.3,000 years ago is the declaration of God and our acceptance

to be free. We are not, we should not be under the masters of the kings or idols or priests.

“We should be and we should feel free people. Every human being deserves is entitled to feel free”

and to have and to enjoy the freedom of thinking, the freedom of joy, the freedom of work, the freedom of faith. That's our belief from day one of our existence. That does not mean at all. That practically we will be able to express our freedom politically. Because sometimes we will be under the realms, under the Babylon's, under other empires that controlled this area,

the land of Israel. But basically we understand that we deserve freedom and we will never

allow anybody to try to destroy ourselves, to feel that we have the right to think, we have the right of faith and other things. And I used in this article a story of Nathan Cheransky that was a prisoner in the former Soviet Union. He describes in one of his books how when he was kept in prison and he was not allowed to read Hebrew, he was not allowed to open the Bible and to read in the Bible. On the surface, it seemed to be that he is the prisoner and the one that gives the orders,

he is free. And one day he says to the commander of that prison, he says to him, "You know, I'm free and you are a slave." Because you know that I'm right,

“you know that you should give me the freedom to learn the freedom to think. But you are free,”

you are afraid for you job, you are afraid for your life from the KGB and other officers that might take your life. I'm the free man, although I'm here in that cell in that prison,

and you are a slave. And I think that basically that's the story. We are free, even though sometimes

the technical circumstances might be confused, it might confuse us, and to think that we are slave. And you know, I started the story with I visited Netania and then somebody raised this finger an immigrant from France that came just recently and he said to me, "You know,

“I want you to know that when I run to the bombshalter, I tell my kids, you know what? That's freedom.”

We are, we should be so proud and so happy that we have shelters. Our ancestors did not have shelters, they did not have air force, they did not have the idea, they did not have the privilege to defend themselves. And we here today in Israel, we have the privilege to fight, we have the privilege to defend ourselves, and we have the privilege to run to the bombshalters. I will run to the shelter and I will tell my kids, we are so proud to be free. It's true that it's

not comfortable, it's not convenient, but freedom doesn't mean convenience. And I wanted one more classic story from one of the very famous rabbis that was in one of the ghettos, in one of the holidays, and he started to dance about the happiness of the joy, of celebrating the holiday, and one of the, it's a fascinating one of the people that was a part of his group asks him, "What are you celebrating? How could you feel free when we are murdered,

when we are suffering, when we are persecuted?" And he said to him, "And it looks to him with his eyes, and he says to him, "Suppose you would have gotten now, a proposal from God." You have the right to choose between to be the murder or to be the one that is murdered. What do you want to be? Do you want to stick to you? Do you want to devote yourself to your values or do you want to be a murder? We are so happy that we belong to that movement in

humanity, that wants to belong to the good side of history, that one that is ready to suffer,

It values that lettuce and our part of the structure of a society that wants to be free and believes in freedom. There was, I was once Nathan Cheransky's spokesman for a couple of years, and he would tell his story where he said, "You know, he was, there was a kid you'd be officer who was interrogating him and he told the joke, and there was a joke, there's a famous joke about

“I think it's about Kruschev where the Soviets decide to beat the America, the Campy,”

the America, the Moon, but they're going to beat the Americans to the Sun. And Kruschev is told, "We can't go to the Sun. The Sun is boiling hot. He can't land on the Sun," and he says, "ah, we're going to go in the nighttime." And it was the joke about that, you know, the idiocy of the Soviet leadership. So he laughs, and of course, the KGB guard camp staff, you know, had a lot to laugh at Kruschev in the middle of a KGB compound. And then,

then Cheransky says to him, "So, which of us is in prison? I can laugh at anything I want. You can't." And the way the same idea of Nathan Cheransky, I heard personally from you let us stay in the former chairman of the Knesset, the Israeli parliament, there was also a dissident. It was also an incident. It was in prison, and he told me that they prohibited him from studying Hebrew. And he told me the same story, the same idea of

feeling free in a society of people that, on the surface, look, seem to be free, but actually are afraid of themselves, and they're never happy with themselves. Because they know that they know deep deep in the house, what's the truth, and who is free and who isn't it.

Right, being powerful is not always being free. And then sometimes,

like running to the shelter, there's the suffering of the vulnerable. And then there's the suffering of people with agency who have to navigate a difficult world,

“but they have the ability to shape that world. And that's what those bombshelters are.”

So we are profoundly free. It is our, we, you know, my frustrations with the Israeli government, not to get political, um, or that it doesn't make certain choices that we can make that could give us a better outcomes, right? That is, that is freedom. That is agency. That is the ability to shape our world. I'll get one more, one part of what you said, you're so right, that I really believe, I know that religious people usually do not speak this way, but I really believe that we

are privileged to live in a state that is more independent and lives more Jewish life and more prosperity than any Jewish country in the history of the Jewish people, including, including the time of King David, maybe not the time of King Solomon. But since King Solomon, I think we are

privileged to live in such an amazing era of Jewish history in the state of Israel. But my point

was not about our, our independent here. Here it's very clear to see that that we are free. But even during the time that we were in the exile, in the diaspora, and even people that today are not living in Israel, they live in Russia, they live in Ukraine in other places. I think the more people feel that they are connected to the values of our history, which will lead to the values of our future, the more they will be free. You write about remembering slavery as a tool for

freedom. Slavery, and I think you draw this from love cook. Slavery not only makes freedom

“precious. You have to go into the darkness to come out into the light and to really grasp and”

understand the light. But slavery also gives us the tools to use freedom properly. If we forget the world before, the good and the freedom that we have. If we forget slavery, then we won't understand freedom, and we won't use freedom, and we won't defend freedom, and we will lose freedom.

That's, that to me is a very powerful lesson. Can you tell us about that? About rev cooks idea

of the importance of two things. One slavery, and another one you've written about also a dollar trade. What is that all about? I would like to share two stories. One story, one of my trips I guess you fly quite often to the diaspora. I don't fly at that often, but sometimes they do.

the beautiful office, I see a pillar made of glass, and in that, inside that pillar, I see a bag, a small bag which was torn to pieces, almost very, very old bag, and I asked him what is that. It was so ugly. And he said to me, "Look, you know, Wei, I'm what I'm, what I'm standing for,

“how good I'm important, and what are my achievements?" That's the bag that I carried with me when I”

escaped from my parents' home when the Nazis arrived to our town in Poland. And that bag was with me

for the old six years. And when I became, when I became, I decided to myself that this will be always

in front of my eyes. When I'm sitting in the big office, in the big table, doing business of millions of dollars, I will always remember where I came from. And one of the ideas of beginning with this grace and ending with with praise, which is one of the ideas of the way, the story of Passover should be told, is that when we succeed, we should always remember what happened before, because what happened before could happen after as well. When we are now, let's say,

we'll take it as an example now, when we are now having, thank God, success with our war in Iran and not yet finishing the work, but hoping to finish the work in Iran, any Lebanon, we should

“always remember October 7. We should never be so proud of ourselves. Wow, our soldiers and our”

efforts and our intelligence. We are weakness. We should always remember our failures. We should never

be too proud of ourselves, because we should always know that if somebody is so arrogant and somebody thinks that he is the best, somewhere there is somebody that is looking after you and trying to kill us and trying to destroy us and don't, so should always remember what we did in the failures. That's one idea. What are we supposed to take away, for example, at the Seder? This is an idea, I'm a real big nutma say, I'm a bit of a start with disgrace or how your nutma would be also critique or

disdain and ends with praise. This is a basic sort of atomic principle and the Seder is built for it. In other words, throughout the Seder, we remember not just the miraculous, the divine, the chosenness, all the things that you can, you know, strut around and be proud of. That's absolutely part of the redemption story, but it begins in the, not just in slavery, not just in humiliation, not just in suffering. It begins in the failures and weaknesses and, and the deepest failure that

you could possibly accuse someone of in the Torah, which is idolatry. And we are told by Hazal in the Talmud, we are told by the Sages, our ancestors, when they were slaves in Egypt, it wasn't just that bad things were done to them. Humiliation were done. They themselves fell into it. That's true. You know, what is the lesson that we walk away with here? So, but in addition to the comment that you have made now, you know, it's very interesting. The Bible in the book of Exodus

that describes the redemption, the redeeming of the Jewish people from Egypt, does not mention the fact that there were warshiping idols. That's said by the Rabbi, by the Sages, and it's also hinted by the prophet Yehizqah, but it's not written in the story itself. And the question is,

“why do you tell us the failures and the weaknesses and the scenes of our ancestors? Why is that important?”

And Ravkuk gives us two ideas and one, as I said, I promised the story, another story,

but now I'm afraid to the idea without the story. Ravkuk says, we should always know

that weaknesses even scenes are a part of the praise, are a part of the story. We have to realize that sometimes in order to be to worship God, we need to experience the failure of worshipping idols. Why is that so necessary? Because the people that worship idols, it's through that idols were false that the idols are not true, they did not create the

in worshipping idols? The idea is that people look for intimacy with the relationship with God.

“People don't want just to know intellectually that God exists. They want to feel that they”

could interact with Him. They could ask Him. They could be angry at Him. They could love Him. They could feel relationship with Him. In order to do that, the people that worship idols taught us that lesson that it's possible with interaction to God. So of course there were wrong and there were false with the thought that these idols were responsible for anything of the world. But the idea of learning from them is something that we should take with us when we worship God. And this idea is

actually a part of the story of being free. Somebody that is a slave is afraid to learn from the other side. Having you know our society is polarized and it's very difficult to find people that will justify the other side in some specific issues. Despite the fact that I belong to that

“group but I think in that point the other one is right or vice versa. Because people are very very”

much bounded to the groups where they belong to and they are afraid to say well we learn something from the other side. When the rubbish taught us we should begin with the disgrace or with the defamation of our ancestors and finish with praise. The idea is we have to learn from everybody. We can learn from the one that worship idols. We can learn from the one that is a slave. There's something which is good being slaves. Because when we want freedom but we have to stick to rules.

We don't want to live in a society that will be a kind of unlucky that everybody is doing whatever you want and everybody could even kill one another and could be addicted to drugs or to alcohol to other things. We want rules but we want the rules to be established by us to guarantee of freedom and not rules that will make us slaves. So the idea that there is a need of a discipline

“of obedience that people will obey to rules etc etc is important and this is something we learn”

from the slavery. We don't want to be slaves of others. We don't want to be slaves of none of the

rabbis. Neither of the kings. We want to be slaves of God or basically we want to be slaves

of our spirit of our values but in order to be free we need to learn from a bit from the slavery a bit from the idols but I wanted to share with you a story. There was a very, very anti-zionist rabbi that came to visit his people in Israel and when I say anti-zionist, anti-zionist it was against the establishing of the Jewish state which today is perceived as something bizarre unheard of but in those times the rabbis that a few rabbis were very much against the state of Israel and he

came to visit his will. A few days before he visits Israel there were riots of his people against the state, against the police and some of them cursed the policemen and told them you are similar to the Nazis. It was a shock in the Israeli society and there were put in prison for three days and then the rabbis arrived to Israel. It arrived to Israel in one of the leaders that went to prison wanted to be accepted by the rabbi when he came to visit him in his

apartment and the rabbi refused to accept him. He said I don't want to say. The anti-zionist rabbi refused to meet the anti-zionist charredi-protester who called the cop a Nazi. Exactly and why he explained to his assistant, I don't want to accept him because he is a Zionist and this advisor is a system-floor that his rabbi is crazy when out of his mind lost his mind because what I mean is Zionist. He is the biggest anti-zionist. He called the cops, he called the Nazis. So how could

you say that he is Zionist? And the rabbi said to him you don't understand. If that guy would have thought

that this Zionist people are really against us, it would never dare to call the Nazis,

did I dare to call the cops in Hungary or in Poland? A Jew you would dare to call the police

He feels deep, deep in his art is Zionist. Why do I share with you that story? Because what the idea is that people that grew up in Israel do not understand what does it mean to be in exile? Do not understand, what does it mean to live in Germany before the war? Forget their Holocaust,

before the war. What does it mean to live in Poland in North Africa? They never felt at home there.

They could never call the policemen in a name that would bring them right away to death or at least a prison for years. Here they feel them. But what I've got says in order to understand what's

“freedom, you have to feel what does it mean to be in exile? In order to understand what does it mean”

to be in light? You have to feel darkness. You have to, you know the reason you see him in Israel that is called a dialogue in darkness in Tel Aviv. And the people go through in this museum they try to experience the feeling of people that that forbid were are blind and others that are deaf. And it goes through, you go through that museum and you see nothing. And you have to imagine what goes with you for 20 minutes or for an hour, there are others that that's their life story.

Ravkuk says, in order to understand how blessed we are, how gifted we are, you have to express a bit or to experience a bit the feeling of darkness, the feeling of what does it mean to be a slave.

“That's why we have to mention it in the beginning of the story of Passover.”

So we are commanded to say we are slaves, even if we are Jews in the land of Israel in the state of Israel. And because otherwise we will not grasp the value of the preciousness, the gift that those things are. And we are commanded also to know that there is great freedom even when we are in the throws of terrible danger. Because freedom is an inner consciousness as Shoranski Tadas and as the sage Tadas before him. And those are the two paradigms of pesech. Before I let you go, I want to just

add one question. We, you say Ravkuk says, we learn from all the bad can teach us about the good. We learn from my dolletars about the intimate relationship with God. Otherwise, a relationship with God is just a philosophical construct. So I have Ravk stuff here on the podcast. I am very much when I went to study Judaism and Hebrew University. I very much gravitated toward Rambam. My God is entirely a philosophical construct and there's a tremendous

amount of love there and experience there, but it isn't intimate. It is the structure and nature of being and the universe. I mean, once you figure that there might be purpose to being, it's, you suddenly realize that every atom and every neutron in your body and all the trillion cells and that there is an intimacy to the great philosophical knowledge as well. But one of the

things that always bothered me is that Rambam, the great philosopher, Raby, doesn't ever really

describe his religious experience. We have so many mystics and so many cobbleists and Rambam, who debates Rambam in a thousand ways and is much more mystical. But Rambam is still the codifier of Jewish law and deeply philosophical and debates with all the Muslim philosophers around him and and the name Aristotle appears in the guide to the perplexed. I don't know how many times and we don't know his religious experience. What is that bridge? What is the intimacy of idolatry

that a philosopher, Raby, like my monadies, or his last pathetic of his students, like me,

“and many people like me, where do you find that intimacy if you are in the philosophical camp?”

Well, first of all, I disagree that the Rambam does not describe his own experience.

You are right that he's not writing this in the teacher of perplexed and not in the Mishnetto-Rai in the book of the Halahot of the regulations. You are right. But he describes in a few of his letters, especially when he describes his journey to Egypt. He describes his prayers to God.

a bit about his intimacy with God and his relationship with God, which you don't see in the teacher of the plaques and other books. So that's just to respond directly to your comment.

“But now coming to the main question that you raised, I think that the most important thing that we”

learn from my monitors is that basically God wants to see the way we behave with the way we implement

our values, the way we behave in society. The Torah was meant to teach us how to make society better, better in all meaning of the word better. Physically, mentally, spiritually, morally, et cetera, et cetera. And I believe that saying that, that means that, and that's the way the rhombum ends is the teacher of perplexed. That after he speaks about the level of intellectuals, then he says, but basically, eventually you have to translate and to implement all the ideas

to the way you look at your friend, the way you look to the convert, the way you look to other human beings. The way we will translate our ideas to practical behavior with our spouses, with our kids, with our parents, that's the intimacy that eventually will show that our ideas are not just philosophical ideas, but also something that is translated to make us society better. You know, there's a very famous story about a professor of morality that was caught in a

not behavior, not proper behavior. And it was asked, how do you do that? And he said, if him, if him a professor of mathematics or geometry, should they look like a triangle or like a circle? So the fact that I'm teaching more values doesn't mean that they have to be moral. So the rhombum

“says, no, that's not true. It's not true. If you want to be intellectual, spiritually intellectual”

that means that it will be translated to practical behavior that fits to the values you educate for and you get yourself and you educate others. By the way, if we wrap it up with the story of Pesach, you know that Rabbi Sachs best his memory used to say, Lord Rabbi Sachs used to say,

that it's something which is really amazing. You know, when Moshe, when Moshe is talking to the Jewish

people 15 days before with the redemption from Egypt, it speaks to, it tells them what's going to happen and it tells them to prepare themselves because that night they're going to live Egypt. And then it dedicates about six or eight verses and then when you will come to the land of Israel in few years or whenever you're coming, your kids will ask you, what's your story? What is that about? What is that Passover? And Rabbi Sachs raised the point, are you kidding? Is that what you're

talking now when we are now dealing with going living Egypt? We are all scared. What's going to happen to us? And you're telling us what should we say to our children 20 years from now on, 50 years

and Rabbi Sachs says, you know, when Avraama Vinwa, when Abraham was chosen as the first ancestor

of the Jewish people, the reason why it was chosen to be the father, the ancestor of us is because I know him, the God says in the book of creation, I know I love Abraham because I know he will command his descendants to preserve, to observe the way of justice and law. That's the story. The story is the values that we implement in our lives and the story is the fact that we deliver this story from father, from parents to the children, from every generation to the next generation

“and that's our challenge and that's our mission and that's what's possible is about.”

Implementation is the intimacy, Ravstav thank you so much, Khan Kashell was the Samarq, Khaksimair to all the human beings all over the world, you know Ravkook says that Pesech is not only a Jewish holiday and Ravkook says that the redemption of the Jewish people

practically translated by the founders of the American American people in the 18th century

“the quotations from verses in the book of exodus that describe the necessity and the not only the”

necessity but the fact that all human beings deserve freedom was adopted by the founders

of the United States of America and actually later on by the United Nations.

“It's even helps the story. I have to add just because it was my Burmeseva portion, Pasechidoshim where”

we are told Kiddoshimti, you be holy. But we are not told you are holy, Mazeltav, you're done here,

we're told no there's a commandment be holy implement and the the sages attached to it are reading

“from the prophet Amos chapter chapter eight or nine where Amos says about the exodus from Egypt”

he says you're not so special I have brought you the people of Israel out of Egypt and I think it's Alam, I brought out of Kiftol and he listened to it, he listened to it, he listened to him, he listened to him, he listened to there other redemption and it is explicitly explained that you and this is also something that Abel Baneil writes the great Spanish sage writes about this part and what this means implementation, holiness is a thing you do, it is not a

status conferred upon you from from without and that is that is certainly the goal of Pasechidosh we are not special because we were redeemed, we are special because redemption itself is something that we strive for and anyone who strives for it is part of that. Thank you so much. Thank you.