154 | Courageous Career Changes: Embracing Uncertainty and New Beginnings with Pastor & Coach Chris McCormick

>> This is becoming undone. >> Gardner web was like everything I ever wanted. And it was like it wasn't what I wanted to be. And it turned out to where I wanted to be. And that kind of gave me one of those moments of,

“well then what is the next thing that I actually want?”

If I've gotten what I've wanted from a job position, so that kind of sent me a real link, I was March of 2020 going to tell our staff and everybody at Leising, and we were at the conference USA tournament and COVID shut everything down.

So it essentially made me go home with my family wish for the first time.

And it was like, okay, I'm forced to sit here essentially. They try to figure out what is the war maybe calling me to. And that's where the idea, church planting, and being able to talk to other people, really came from when it's just actually what I'm even supposed to be doing. Like I have these skills.

So it took a lot of unwinding of then realizing how much my identity was asked. They wrapped up at the coach.

“And that really led to the leading coaching until I was twenty twenty one.”

And since we're going into full time minutes here. I'm Chris McCormick, bye I'm done. Hey, friend, I'm glad you're here, welcome to yet another episode of Becoming Undone. The podcast for those who dare ravely, risk muddling, and grow relentlessly. Until we broke the speaker, author, professor, and performance scientist.

I spent much of the last two decades work as an athletic trainer and strength coach in the professional collegiate and high school sports settings. And over the years, I've grown more and more fascinated with what sets high achievers apart. And how those failures that can absolutely suck in the moment can end up being exactly the push we needed to propel us along our paths to success. Each week, I'll be coming undone and invite new guests to examine how high achievers can transform from

pulling apart to falling into place. I'd like to emphasize that this shows entirely separate from my role at Baylor University, but it's my attempt to apply what I've learned and what I'm learning and to share with others about the mindsets of high achievers. This week's conversation has been a long time coming. My guest is Chris McCormick. He's a former division-one strength-conditioned coach who cut his teeth first at Gardener Web University than Florida Atlantic.

And as he rose in the ranks, he lived the grind that so many in our field know all too well.

Long hours, low pay, and a relentless pursuit of a dream that always felt just one step ahead.

But somewhere along the way that dream started to crack and what followed was a pivot. That few could have seen coming. Today, Chris is the lead pastor at Reliant Church and in this conversation, we unpack what it looks like when your identity is tied to what you do. We burn out forces hard questions and when purpose pulls you in an entirely different direction. If you've ever wrestled with the tension between calling, career, and the cost of chasing both, this one's going to hit close to home.

I hope you'll enjoy my conversation with Pastor Chris McCormick in episode 154. Let's get into it. Greetings and welcome back, becoming Undone as a podcast for those who dare bravely risk mightily and grow relentlessly. Join me, Toby Brooks is on by the new guest, each week, where we examine how high achievers can transform from falling apart to falling into place. This week, this one's been quite a while. Come in, Chris McCormick reached out to me through LinkedIn. A lot of parallel will call it concerns between athletic trainers and string-conditioning coaches in particularly individual sports.

Chris today is lead pastor, Reliant Church, but prior to that kind of in another life, he was the director of Olympic sports at Florida Atlantic University, where he was a strength conditioning coach with aspirations of maybe one day being an AD. So we'll get into that later, but Chris, thanks so much for joining me tonight. Thanks for having me. Yeah, I know we've scheduled this for a couple of times and some tech issues tonight, but this is our time.

This was when we were supposed to have this conversation, so I'm looking forward to getting into it. Lots of times, athletic trainers and string-conditioning specialists have athletic histories of their own and I assume that's you too.

“So I always start with a little bit of a softball. What did you want to be growing up and why?”

Yeah, that's a great question. That's probably got to say it in my professor at least three times a month. I can spell career. Initially I wanted to be a pediatrician. When I was in high school, that was something that I aspired to do. I got into undergrad and went the whole pre-med route and I don't know if this was truly for me.

So one of my first passions was to support the playing football and baseball and swimming in different sports and high school.

So as I went down the route of teaching, I'm looking at teaching specifically in the high school and continuing. I fell in love with history, but also psychology and that's where my dad's was, is actually in.

I got my master's in my left, that essentially trapped to go into coaching primarily football, to transition into the strength and conditioning itself. Kind of big diversity across that and growing up.

Yeah, so you ultimately find yourself working at a division one, university, where you're a strength

conditioning specialist. That is a job that if you haven't done it, it's kind of hard to really fully appreciate the grind and the hours below pay before you get to that.

“Yeah, who was Chris McCormack when he was just a strength coach chasing that profession?”

What did you love about that world? Oh man, I've been on this for four years, so even looking back, I've had some recent conversations with colleagues of things we love and things were like glad or not. Who I was, I mean, I was the go-getter, go-as-thousand miles of hours used to be made fun of fire, ATs, that the gym's flooring you have with our athletic shoes.

I'd be here me squeaking down the kind of the hallway because I was moving so fast in the next thing.

And I was just all about what is the next little thing that would lead to that one percent that would lead to success for our student athletes. And every single thing that would be incorporated with high performance or any of that, I wasn't thrilled with that. That was my goal. That's where you talk about athletic administration. What's the little things that we can do? So we can see the numbers on the scoreboard change. Let's see our athletes be successful.

And that's, I mean, who I was, I couldn't even ask a coach more than anything. Well, I know that for people that haven't lived in that environment, that culture can be surprising to a lot of people. And I know it varies from place to place, even, I mean, in the same place, if you get a coaching change with the head football coach, the culture can change overnight. But for those that maybe aren't as familiar, what does that

lifestyle demand of you? And what was it like when you found yourself kind of nostrils deep

“in a career as a strength and conditioning coach? Yeah. Um, the only thing I can maybe it's”

for me to do is military families understand. And it's unlike any job where there's so many imaginary expectations, I think that we put all ourselves more than anybody. It's such a form of sports staff perspective. You could easily take the blame, but you don't get the praise as much. And just this year hours, when I was at Gargoye University, a proud of Christian school in North Carolina, I was the director of athletic performance. I've trained so full on basketball,

primarily traveled with both. So there was times where I would get home from a basketball game. We playing liberty for hours and away. I'd get back to North Carolina. We get off the bus at two a.m. and we have football at five, thirty more. And it was just like I'd taken that through some coffee go workout and go right back in. And that was a constant, constant thing.

“Well, Chris is describing here sadly his true force so many, especially young professionals”

trying to make their way in college sports. They're eager to grow and learn and move up. Lured as much by the enhanced salary and the recognition as by the opportunity to work with more and more elite athletes. Whether string coaches, athletic trainers, equipment managers, media personnel, academic support, all types of others, what Chris is describing in detail here, isn't just an isolated example. For many, it's daily life. For months or even years on end.

For anybody in that space, it can be a difficult tension between going all in and carving your path and burning out, looking for ways to support yourself and your family and be present in their lives. For Chris, who's already starting to exact toll, early in his career, de-one gardener web. Those dreams and ambitions were still propelling him forward to another step on his journey,

before he ultimately faced the realities that he could no longer continue to be the string coach,

the husband and the dad that he wanted to be all at the same time. If you don't love every single thing about it, you will get swallowed up and everybody talks about grinding and even now at ministry, I'm like sports is a different role. You're not about that life than you'll get chewed up and spit out. I've heard you talking a little bit, so yeah. Yeah, I oftentimes reflect back to my time at liberty, actually,

and I shared with my wife, I said, "I want to work in the NFL or be in a power 5, and the grind and the hours," it just is what it is. There's no way around that. I realized that that grind was pulling me away from my family. Well, the other side of that was, we were also almost in poverty. I was the head football athletic trainer making $36,000 a year.

and at a place like Liberty, at a gardener web where it's a Christian institution. Lots of times it was the running joke like this is a ministry, so that means they're going to pay you about 20% less than the market rate or more. It was kind of a perfect storm of guilt for me as the leader of my family feeling like I was failing my athletes. I was failing my family. I wasn't

“the provider. When that starts to accumulate on your shoulders, what was your thought process at that point?”

For most people, they might look at a second career but planting a church maybe isn't necessarily

the direction a lot of people go, although I would argue that your career is a string condition code's probably pretty well because anything else feels like a part-time job. Yeah, I mean, it's funny to say that because even now looking back and being a pastor having the title, the struggle with identity and stuff, that coat you have, you just slap pastor on that. It's the same thing. I mean, it's at least in strengthening initiative. We can formulaically take sports

science and get like eight plus people see in the spiritual realm. I can do all the right things that work the size of people completely different with it. If I want to find identity in this,

that's a terrible place to find it as much as coaching, but it is funny like a garter web,

similar story of just, you know, it's a blessing and it's a ministry. It was my dream job. I wanted to work at a division one grocery school and it really kind of turned into me. Almost the statistic of everything that I wanted to be in coaching and you begin to red tape and draw lines between people and animosity and all those things. So coaching is just a unique aspect to that too because you get to do something you love. There are a lot of people that

maybe are ditched diggers that make a lot of money that actually take their job. And you get to do

“something you love, you get compensated for it very well. And I think that's just a huge piece where”

some people do make a lot of money, but you only can do so much and wear that badge of honor on your chest of like, I'm doing this for the kids and it's like, yeah, but I also have kids at home. And I remember how it's family that's growing and my wife stayed almost the time. So I have no idea how we even survived in that. Our story is very similar to Southwood. It's such a new concept. I don't know how we even made it with the salary or even all of my wife staying home,

but I think it just, it goes to show just a badge of honor that we tried to wear, especially a support staff. You see other people being compensated in a certain way. Especially in a Christian context, if you talk about liberty or guard or web, are your missions to yield, you're calling. But there is a point where it just becomes it may not be sustainable. And I think financially and also, emotionally and socially in all

of those things. And that is such a huge Russell especially as a young professional of one is enough. And when you've all of them, I think some of the things that you've talking about on your sphere. Yeah, I know who liberty guard or web. I mean, you feel like you're right on the threshold of your dreams. And it's like, if I could just hold on just a little bit longer

if my coach makes it big and takes me with him, but you never know. So it's like, and my wife and

I've had this conversation, I assume you and yours have as well. Like, do we have to endure this for six more months or six more years or ten more years? Am I never going to get there? And it's just so hard. I mean, if you're running a marathon and you know how many miles are ahead of you, you can pace yourself. But in this decision, you just have no way of knowing how long do I have to endure this. And it's just so tough. At what point did the job stop

being something you loved and start becoming maybe something that you felt like was just too much? Yeah. I mean, I think the time that guard or web was a huge piece of that. Like I said, I was travel at basketball and football. I was taking on teams. We had 20 of these sports there. I'd have maybe a couple GAs, maybe a system. And it was turnover there because of just factors and people get a better job. And you know, if you're running a Peter to pay calls, so you can

train one team, if you've got to train all the other things that comes with that, you know, I loved the managerial side of being a director. And in I'll think of how he was in the scene, I'm grow. But there was also the aspect with football and basketball. I was around a lot of successful basketball teams. And I think that eventually kind of became my niche. But also for our family,

“it was just like, I can't do this travel. And that's why I began exploring other jobs and that's”

where when I transitioned before a planet. I wasn't traveling. I was more on the Olympic side.

love of coaching plus, living on a beach is obviously an excellent effort. Excellent benefit.

“But like I said, as Garner Webb was like everything I ever wanted in the job.”

And it was like it wasn't what I wanted it to be. And it had turned out to where I wanted to be. And that kind of gave you one of those moments of, well, then what is the next thing that I actually want if I've gotten what I've wanted from a job position? So that kind of sent me really. Sent me really. That's such a precise and descriptive turn of phrase.

Here Chris acknowledges the confusion and the doubt and the fear that flood in when you finally get

everything you thought you ever wanted. And yet you still find yourself unhappy. Perhaps even miserable when you get there. For so many we don't have the ability to cut the line and try a role like that on. It takes years of experience, multiple degrees countless professional credentials and licenses. And when you stop and consider the possibility that you were all wrong about how that dream role or job or business would make you feel many times you grieve and you grieve more than one thing.

All while still trying to do the job. I would say for me personally first I grieve the mistake. It was saddening for me to admit that the job I'd spent years chasing was not only not making

happy. It was in fact making me miserable. And all on a popper salary. And secondly I grieved

the sunk cost, like we'll talk about in a minute. Years of life, some cases tens are even hundreds of thousands of dollars get poured in to make you eligible. Only to arrive and discover that you didn't really want it after all. And that grief can linger. Many times you've grows. And in the midst of that purpose storm I found myself frequently asking what the heck was next. What I didn't see and what Chris didn't see in the driving downpours of that storm was that

those experiences had shaped us in ways that an easier path simply couldn't have. Just like training and contrigger adaptations in your body to be stronger, faster and have more endurance, surviving seasons of life like that built grit and determination, work ethic and resolve. If we let it. For Chris he found himself at Florida Atlantic but increasingly dissatisfied with the life that he was choosing. And he could have either remained there or make a change. He made a change.

We'll be back after this quick message. We've ever looked in the mirror and thought what in the hell just happened to my life and the career shifts when the relationship ends. When the identity of the built, your whole life around disappears overnight. That's not failure.

“That's what I call a purpose storm. And most high achievers aren't prepared for it because no”

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Going to FAU change a lot because that was around COVID and kind of all those negatives. That factor. Yeah. While our stories have so many parallels when I left liberty, we went and spent part of a season in Fort Myers with an arena two football team and same thing like mornings on the beach. Working arena ball was like the best job I've ever had, especially arena two because they all had day jobs. So while they were at work, the family

I could go beyond the beach. But the problem is you only paid for six months out of the year. So

that wasn't sustainable either. Was there a moment when you realized something has to change

“or this is going to break me? What happened? Yeah. Yeah. I think it was, you know, early on,”

even at FAU. I had a great situation. I worked for that fellow's dusty mate who's at Michigan.

like this is the person. This is the person that if there would be success, I would love to stay with and work with. But there's a lot of fact, he's especially with my own faith that we're impacted of our family to begin to be involved with foster care adoption. So we were having children come into our home. We were involved more with our church and that balance of even if I wasn't traveling and whatnot, there's still a demand with, you know, essentially

directing a department and all the sports and all of the games and all of those things that I was like, I just don't know if I can do both of these things at a high level. And how many times family I was like, well, what's the, what's the give her take here? And some of those external factors really to rose me, eventually towards the ministry where I'm at in directly at thing. But it also can't put me in a position to where the breaking part, I could talk more a little bit about this,

“like the undone part, and I actually turn me into the, I think the best version of the coach I”

was because it kind of just maybe not care as much about the things that I thought were so important. And again, some freedom after I passed that point of light, I can't do this anymore, which is really interesting now looking back of kind of that path leading into coaching and now into the ministry. So you're, you're a believer, we're letting it into your, your testimony, but you're, you're working on a face-based institution, you go to a state school.

At what point does ministry as a potential vocation start to come into the equation? And when did you really feel that call on your life and, yeah, subsequently, when did you surrender to it? Yeah. So it was a right around the time we started to foster care to the options. So the, the school where I garden a web at basketball coach, at his wife, we're involved with foster care.

And my wife was tremendously involved with that. I was traveling and I was always like, you know,

I don't have enough time. You know, he was kind of doing it. They didn't have that excuse. The only move to South Florida, the turns from your going to, was like the hub for foster care to the option in all of me to county. And so the moral exposed to it, the more I just became,

“there wasn't an excuse anymore. I was like, this is, this is what I think we're going to call”

to and my wife was specifically to one that was kind of changing that. So they got in more involved with some of those things outside of sport that Dallas beast became okay. And one is this actually able to look like for our future. We had two young kids. We were in the process of adopting a child of a foster care, in which we did adopt. And so even, as I talked to more pastors that I had, I mean, I moved 17 times in my marriage because of the coaching. He had just some concerns

from taking me to a lot of people who are like, if you were thought about ministry. And I'm like, well, I don't want to be a pastor like, I'm, I'm licking maybe for something else outside of strengthening the industry. If that was athletic administration or ministry. And so I'd be getting exploring FCA and kind of seeing like, with that would look like my wife and I was from Indiana or we live right now. And I thought I had a light up. I thought, then it's gonna be FCA start fundraising

and literally like, I was March of 2020 going to tell our staff and everybody at Leading. And we were at the conference USA Tournament and COVID shut everything down. So essentially,

maybe go home with my family with the first time. And was like, okay, I'm forced to sit here

essentially and try to figure out what is the Lord maybe calling me to. And that's where the idea, church planting and being able to talk to other people really became prevalent. And there was a slippage of time. We were home and it coming back to sport and all those days. But it was around that time square. And since of a very unique time, it's like a several number, and then we're really led to the leading coaching in July 2021. And since we're going into full-time ministry.

Yeah, I know I've heard this time and time again from students who leave the profession of AT in particular. You've invested so much time and money getting degrees and certifications. And the idea of sunk cost is a real thing. Like, am I just going to abandon this? Am I going to just walk away when I may be on the doorstep of my dreams? But ultimately, you made that decision. You pivoted and moved in another direction professionally. Leaving a career that you're invested

in for years isn't easy. What did it take emotionally and spiritually for you to walk away

“from that world? Yeah, I think early on for me, it was easy because there was such a excitement”

about it. I think this new venture of jumping out. I mean, some of the coaching jobs and things, you don't know somebody you may have in that work. You believe in a week later, it go to the

next job. We always had that element or family of life can change in time. We would jump out of

but I had no, I still have no idea sometimes what I'm doing because I had over a decade of

“venture training and expertise in all those days. So early on, I could wipe a claim and, you know,”

you get into the season and start seeing things. But really, it was probably about a year or two into ministry where the everything kind of dies down. And then even, I mean, I left FAU and that's where

you went to the fall for. I'm going to read a second with you. Let's see what happens. Game on the

line. First, cash right through the heart. Three point game, Kansas State. Now needs a three to tie it. Clock ticks. No hell dribbles. He's looking for someone, but soon we're going to put it up. And then you see that, you're like, oh man, what could be? And then you get people calling about opportunities and jobs that are really good jobs that I have a couple of opportunities. And it's like, where does this actually when I'm even supposed to be doing? Like, I have these skills.

So it took a lot of unwinding of then realizing how much my identity was asked to be wrapped up in the code. Even if I talked to people about it and people that were like, wow, that's really

cool that you used to do that and people want to talk to me about it and how easy that I see it

as a pastor now. But just the term code is like, people claimed that it's cool to talk about. And I thought I had a lot better walk on it and I did not. And even seeing now more because of the amount of guys that talk to you on the end of the process don't that they're struggling with that even though they're still in it, it's a real thing. And I'm just used to struggle with that in the role you're in now when you could even look sometimes and be like, you're going to get

Amersmuffin. You're like, this is awesome. And then it's like, you like snap-out and like, well, no, no, it's not what I'm doing ever. So, right. Yeah. Yeah. The phomo is real. And you know, it's for me, it game days were tough. But just the day in and day out the relationships with the student athletes was just something that was irreplaceable. And for me, I went more into a teaching role and that became my relationships with my students and, you know, pouring into them and for you, it's parishioners and, you know,

members of your church. Yeah. One thing I always try to share with my students who are considering

making a pivot out of in particular, a lot of them and the college ranks are just running out. They are, you know, they're poor and they're burned out and they're ready for something different. And I always try to reassure them that you're not abandoning a skill set. What you've learned in that setting actually applies in a whole heck of a lot of places and it will make you a tremendous asset to a lot of organizations because you've got to work ethic that few

people on earth actually possess. And learning to live on such a mega amount can mean, you know, if you get a little bump in your salary, it's great. How did your experience as a string condition coach shaped the way that you now approach ministry and even leadership? Yes, that's a great question. The amount of times you can ask my wife, I would sit at the end of the day and be like, why in the world would the Lord call me into this? Like, into pastory, into preaching and all the

“intricacies of people knowing what whole time ministry is. I think it's been the last six months”

that I've begun to see more as I get to know people more because there's a relational piece of even the title of pastor versus that coach. And I'm sure, like if you went back in the athletic training room, it's like back here hand, you just go right back into every single thing how you talk and all those things you did. But as a pastor, I've worked in a physical development side of the physical preparation. And now I am in a spiritual preparation side of things. And I

think from the elements of depending on what theologically people believe, there's a quote that graces not opposed to effort, it's opposed to earning. And there's effort required of the Christian life. And there's the discipline and spiritual discipline and the more you get to know people and realize there is an opportunity you can not control the growth, which you can cultivate the

“environments to what you're in. And that's what I used to do physically. And I'm seeing that more”

of the pastor of helping other people grow and pushing them in different ways and seeing things in their life. And I mean, that's kind of what I'm called to do. I almost, you know, will separate it

element in that. And I think it's it's blending together more of my coaching, my pastor rolls coming

together. And I feel more comfortable now because I don't feel as much as an imposter of like,

“I do in this ride. And that's me coming out in my role now. And I think there's just a lot more”

authenticity because I have 10, 12 years of being like that. And doing certain things that does transfer with people because it's relationships. That's truly what it is. And yeah, I mean, it's, it's I, it's funny to ask that question because it's more click with me now over the past six months than probably the four years I've been in that industry. And it's like, this is almost my niche. Like, I think this is what I'm, I'm called to in this specific thing with ministry. And it's very

helpful in terms of playing where you get certain kinds of people come to our church. So yeah,

this is been very interesting when the past few months. Yeah, that's great. I appreciate that insight.

Again, we're talking with Chris McCormick. He's the lead pastor at Reliant Church and former Shankondition coach in division one. Are there specific lessons you learned in the weight room that show up in your preaching or your pastoral work now? I know we talked kind of

“generalities in in leadership. But are there any specific things that you carried right over?”

Yeah, I'm I think once I've been reminded of that I've learned lately over the past few months is you can go into the gospels and look at the parable of the solar. You can invest and poor seed and certain places. But in the parable, there's only one sport of that soil produces fruit. You can put effort and put time and put all these things into certain soils or even you'd say certain people. And the ones that really do want to grow. Those are the exciting ones.

It's just like the athletes that are all in on nutrition and everything, holistically, they're ready to go. That's really exciting. It's really hard with those that aren't about the work and all of those different things. And I've seen that more from as a coach going into the church where you sometimes just get a pipe dream that everybody wants to grow and everybody wants these

things. But if you never met in a weight room or a church, you realize that is not the case.

“You know, people say it. And I think that's when it used things for me is you got to spend time with”

the people that really do want the very things that they say they want. And you got to be careful with spending time and investing my time. As someone who spent a lot of time and sport, they're doing a lot of different things. It is very similar to ministry where I can invest my time in a lot of things that doesn't matter ultimately. I think that's been skewed for me. Because again, that's a relational piece that I've taken from coaching. And now I see a ministry

ever more because it's really hard and it's not nice sales time is not forever. But it's truly not like it. And I think that's a very good parallel I've seen from the sports lives in ministry. Yeah. One thing I've been trying to kind of catch up on. I mean, I'm not in an athletic training setting and I'm not working as a string-condition coach, but I'm definitely interested in the sports science and all the data, you know, things that really didn't exist when I was working clinically

the catapult data and sports plate data and so many things that are measurable. And a lot of places are collecting data, but what are they doing with it? And I see that parallel in the work that I do today if it matters it needs to be measured. But measuring it isn't enough, we want to make data informed decisions. Yeah. Have you seen that carry over into your work? You're not that far removed from the field. So data science was a pretty big thing a few years ago and continues to grow.

Do you see that in your work today? Yeah. I mean, I think the question is what are we truly measuring what the even in the context of spiritual body in the church? Because in the church we usually would be jumping, measure, thoughts, budgets, and whatever the other V.A. isn't sorry. That's not what we expect. And some of the other things are very hard quantitatively or qualitatively to actually measure. Even in the weight of your vertical, your squat numbers,

all those things can go up and you still can be really terrible on the field. And I can still get fires for it. Or I can have a wheat and tag team together, a support staff, and there's no non-contact injuries of them at a drop of the hat. Someone fires us because they don't like us anymore. So you have all this data and it's like, but is the data actually is forming some of the decisions to what you're going to make? And I think that's really hard from the discipleship standpoint too,

because then it's like, the measuring of growth is a lot easier in the winter than it is in a spiritual realm. And that takes more time. The hard thing with sport is if you don't get results, you're gone. Well, how do we measure that with the church setting too? Because you can't

And the Lord has been not decided to do anything with what you put together in your perfect plan.

So that's for me and being an Excel life kind of person, it's like, well, I can have a sweet plan, but that doesn't mean it's actually going to work. So I think data is helpful. The question is are we even asking the right question? Yeah. So you can collect a lot of data and not actually dissolving the right problems. And I think that's inevitable any professional, obviously, because then we can justify, essentially, by with metrics and things like that,

if why we're doing a job. And not get any results. Yeah. I know in working with athletes, the notion of high decibel motivation comes up, and you know, not very pastoral to kick some money in the pants when they're underperforming or not growing, you know, man, sometimes it sure would be nice.

“Yeah. That's why I probably were like, oh, how much you trust me from the spiritual sense of”

leaving you, but I could definitely physically, and it's trying to think it is, and in the sense,

we, you know, like, but I can't put my certain hats on a certain environment, it's like, I've shifted to the shepherd that I can't be as much as maybe it would work in another market. Yeah. If there's a string code to an athletic trainer who's listening right now, who is feeling that same pressure and that burnout that you want to felt, what would you want them to hear? Yeah. It's almost about was talking to myself. I'm maybe a few years ago.

I mean, I think something I've thought about a lot lately, especially conversations with younger professionals, being a safe and a person, I guess, and talk to you who's not in the field is. This idea that, you know, wherever you're at in your career, you know, pressure in whatever it is, whenever you're putting on yourself, the surrounding profession is putting on your boss or

“it is. Pressure is going to essentially expose what's forming you. And what's we figure that out?”

It might be a good thing or a bad thing. I think that's where identity, I think, this idea of who you are, and that's going to eventually lead to what you do. And what you do, is eventually going to lead to your behavior how you live. And if you can't 10 point some of those things, you might be going down a road that you have no idea that you're actually going down. I think that's burnout, that's a fruit of probably bad rules.

A fruit of bad roots. I need to take a minute here. And I want you to take a minute here. And together, let's consider what Chris means when he says that the path to burnout can be a fruit of bad roots. When I was little, I grew up on a small farm in rural southern Illinois. We had 38 acres, and about five of that had been fenced off in this huge yard. There was a pond, massive swing set that had been built there from telephone poles,

“but like it was about three stories told of me and lots and lots of trees. As a kid, I used to”

despise, mowing that yard. It usually took me five or six hours just to do a terrible job, with no raking and no weed trimming. Yeah, those things in and do it right. And it was an all-day deal. What made it the worst was the number of trees that we had. Although I had this rickety old riding lawn mower that got worse every season every year, every summer, it was a dinosaur era non-zero term, mowing around a tree on an old school riding

lawn mower can be hard. And trying to get as close to that trunk as possible, more than once, those low hanging branches that I had tried to duck under, they swept me right off the seat onto the ground as that mower kept chugging right along. By far the worst trees to mow around were the few fruit trees that we had. A couple of apple trees, one pear tree, and what I'd eventually learn was a crab apple tree. Now stick with me, I promise I'm getting somewhere with this store.

Now you can eat crab apples. I literally had to just google that because even at my age, decades after this story happened, I wasn't sure. Google says you can't. As a kid, I'd eaten off of our apple tree. They were a little bit bigger. They looked just like what we bought from the store, but nearby that crab apple tree had similar looking but smaller fruit.

So I always just thought, "Oh, they're just not right yet." So one day while I was mowing,

curiosity got the best of me. And one of those little crab apples dropped in my lap, and I thought what that, and I took a bite. And if you've ever tasted a crab apple, you've experienced this, I immediately spit it out. Google also says that the bitter fruit is edible, but it says that the seeds can be toxic. I don't know if I ate the seeds or not. But the bottom line is you don't get regular apples from crab apple trees. It wouldn't have

mattered what I did, no amount of watering or care or trimming or attention to that tree would have changed the taste or the usefulness of those crab apples. They just weren't apples, and that analogy holds. far too often we try to treat the symptoms of what's ailing us. Thinking if we could

truly happy. The fruit would be what we wanted. While that bitterness we taste might seem like

it's coming from our situation, it's actually deeper than that. It's in the root, and that's what Chris is sharing here. For Chris fortunately, it was a reality that he was able to face early enough in his career that there was still time to pivot. Fortunately many times when you started that out it's too late because you've been putting it off yet and had time all those things. So I mean, I think one of the biggest pieces in that you are not your job and you will be replaced

“in a heartbeat if you say it's your more important than you really are. So you need to take care”

of yourself and you need to have people around you who truly do have your best interests.

And when you do have that, I think there's a lot more freedom in the burnout and all of those

days will be as prevalent because like I said, it's so easy looking back. And the pressure is I've put on myself that we're not even real. It's like I wasn't put it on because no one could put more pressure than me on myself. And I think that's a huge thing for people that they really need to evaluate. Yeah, I think that's a great perspective. If you look back, do you think that God had to break you or break the life that you built in order to get obedience into this calling

that you're carrying out today? Or was it really just preordained steps? How do you view the journey that it's taking? That's a really good question. That's the piece for God, I'll say that. I mean, ministry is the most sanctifying thing I've ever been. I mean, it really has. I'm so grateful, regardless of success and ministry in terms of planning and all those things. That the Lord has put us in this because more than

anybody, it's throwing me closer to Jesus. Like, I can't say it in the other way. Coaching did that.

“But I think more of a superficial way because there was so a lot of like, I want to be this thing.”

And I could share the code it into my identity. But I think so that is, yeah, I think even now on this side of things, being out of coaching, I wanted to go and ask, I didn't make a administration because I wanted to help pro-tease. I really did. And now and then I'm going to be outside of it. I feel like me going through some of these things, especially through ministry. I might ask you to be able to help coaches now and actually holistically help them. And give them

maybe more than what they need. I've always felt that, but I think the Lord has had to take me through

some things. So then I actually prepared to do that very thing that I think I'm going to be to go take a lot more time to over the next few years. So yeah, I think it was very intentional and also in the knucklehead and make them the stakes and do those things. But I think it was ordained in some way of the sovereignty to get me to this point because I do have a different perspective. And then I said, if I went back in the coaching, I would be a totally different coach, like completely

because of seeing and being on this side of things now. Yeah. I've heard it said that if we've been through what we've been through and Division 1 Athletics being the way that it is, you either emerge from that thinking about the next generation, well, I went through it so you're going to have to,

“or I think a more contemporary approach is I went through it. So let's make sure you don't have to.”

And I think with your perspective and lived experience through that and now serving in a pastoral world, I really could see how that's a perfect combination for someone who's in the midst of their own purpose to try to figure out what in the world they're here for. If not this then what? And I think that's something that haunted me for a lot of nights. I knew I couldn't keep doing what I was doing, but I didn't know what else I could do. And I think if there's any hope we could

offer that next generation, it's that more than you think. Yeah, way more than you think. Yeah, you said the work ethic thing, I might, I would hire somebody to harp you who's been a coach or an athletic trainer. The amount of stuff that you, especially you guys have to do to hold together the right, I mean, you are a jack of all terrains, everything all the time. And I know the work ethic is far down. I'm not going to worry about you being lazy.

I'm sad, but I know that I buy a side with that life looks like and yeah. Yeah, I've got two left for you. I asked these of all my guests. If you were to watch a montage of your life and we laid some music underneath it, what song would you pick and why? Man, that's a good question on the montage of my life. And the issue here is some of the other podcast people what they've said. So mine would be, there's a song by Hans Zimmer, he's the orchestra,

Tell a lot of things with their movie. Yes, it's like to point really on a capitol wakes up in there on the airplane. I've listened to a song many times. I don't know why. I'll listen to it when I study and do things, but it's such a, I don't know, my journey somehow

interleads with that of like our life and just how things have kind of played out and I've never

guessed that the end of the position I'm in. So I don't know. It's somehow just reminding me of that.

“So I think that I think that would be the song. I love it. I put all those together into a mixed”

tape on Spotify. Basically a virtual mixed tape on Spotify. Also put a video into the page. Yes, we create the the page for this episode. Last one. The title of the show is becoming undone. The idea that we go from unraveling and feeling like we're literally being torn apart to realizing that we've got a purpose left on fulfilled that we're unfinished, that we're undone. What for Chris McCormick remains undone?

I think it's what we've talked about towards the end. I've done a lot of different cool things in my life. I've been called the different things. What I'm undone is the state of our profession. Coaching my wife and I both have a burden for coaching families, especially husbands and wives, but they're has to be a better way. We can't wait for structures and people and organizations and alliances that's things to fix it. It starts with you and just having mediums, retreats,

more conferences about your family and outside of work and then just inside of work and

“X's and O's and talk and shop. There's so many things I think of what I was in coaching.”

If there was more resources and my ego probably wasn't in the way of like I don't need this, it would have saved a lot of heartache. I think that's something moving forward. My unique kind of skill will be able to help people with that. And one of the things that there will be as much burnout. People will truly enjoy what they're doing. And returns to why they started doing it. And I hope be a small sliver of impact in that in the future.

Yeah. And I have to be careful. I'm on LinkedIn and I've been pretty critical of the

profession of athletic training and then adjacently. I've got great friends and strengths conditioning, media revisions, the academic folks. If you're working in college sport, you are work to the bone and you're not making a lot unless you're at the peak of the organization. My message isn't everyone get out and do something else. For some people, they can make changes

“and it's a sustainable life. So I think what you're saying, there's definitely a need for that.”

Not everyone needs to make a hard pivot and become a pastor. For some people, they just need to be more intentional about serving in a way that's sustainable for their family and healthy. Because ultimately, when I was at my worst, my student athletes were suffering. They weren't getting the care that I wanted to give them because my cup wasn't full. And that's, I won't say it's dangerous. It's certainly suboptimal. And if I can't pour all of myself into that

relationship, then they're paying the price for that. And they deserve better than that. And I think that's a huge, I've talked to several people who coach coaches from the professional level and none of you know, a spiritual side. It's just I'm the guy that the head coach can talk to you outside your nation. You know, we talk about buyouts and how the money and all these structures of the might. We talked about insurance and liability with him sports medicine and athletes and all those

things. And I think it's the same with coaches. Because wasn't you can save a coach from blowing up and having to hire somebody because you actually have helped for them. And what does that look like? And how do people even with the organization that is not just sports psychology, but there's people that coaches can relate to because they've been in their shoes. And I think that's where more of the stages that are retiring. If it's someone like you or someone like me or someone like

a head coach who is in a forever or actually coming back to men's for help, I think that would

do tremendous amount of help that is I never had that when I was a coach. So I can go to people,

but I think that is such a pitiful piece. And like you said, I was called this something. I didn't feel like I ran away as much because I loved my job. I just felt like this is what I had to do.

called to do too. Absolutely. Well Chris, thanks so much for joining me tonight. I really

do appreciate it. It's been a great conversation and I'm thankful for your insight. Now I appreciate it to help you. Thank you. I'm Chris McCormick. Bye, London. What stands out to me from this conversation with Chris is how subtle unraveling can be. There wasn't a single breaking point. He didn't describe that one moment of rock bottom or of existential crisis. Instead, for him, it was a slow realization that the life that he had built

“and was still building, the one he dreamed of was no longer sustainable. And I think that's where a lot”

of people get stuck because when you're close to the dream or maybe even in it, it's hard to admit that it might not be the destination that we thought it was. Chris didn't just walk away from a job. He walked away from an identity, from something he had invested years of training and sacrifice and belief into. And yet what you hear in his story is not regret. It's clarity. That same discipline, that same drive, that same commitment to developing others didn't disappear. It just

found a new place to blossom. And maybe that's to take away. You're not as stuck as you think you are friend. The skills that you've built, the resilience you've earned, the perspective that you've gained, those things don't expire when one chapter ends. Sometimes becoming undone is an about losing everything. Instead, maybe it's about finally seeing what remains and the value that are holds. I'm thankful to Chris for dropping in and I hope you enjoyed our conversation.

For more info on today's episode, be sure to check it out on the web. Simply go to undonepodcast.com backslashep154 to see the notes, links and images related to today's guest, Chris McCormick. Some quick updates about the show we took a week off to celebrate Easter back in love with the kids and it was magical. Not just to be back in the place we long have called home, but to get the chance

to reconnect. It was much needed and always welcome. That said, we did actually climb a little bit

in the education self improvement rankings on Apple. Up from 8th to 5th where we stand right now. Sadly, we aren't back in Apple's top 200th moment, but I'm working on it. I love to get a little

“help from you in the process as well. If you want to follow along and see our progress for yourself,”

you can now go to undonepodcast.com/wankings and cheer me on. In the last month, we've had more than 30,000 downloads, but we aren't done yet. If you'd be so kind as to share the show with a friend and leave a comment or a view, that would be most sincerely appreciated. This week's Teal of the Week is a shoutout to the Palo Alto College Palaminos. I stumbled across a picture of their baseball team, some were in social media, and they were rocking this

classic white with the Teal pinstripe unies that looked like my all-time favorite MLB jersey from the early Florida Marlins, to immediately went to their website and bought some merch. So shoutout to Palo Alto College, and the Palaminos Athletic Department. It's a program that's quietly building some momentum on the south side of San Antonio. Competing at the junior college level, they're developing some local talent and they're making meaningful opportunities for

student athletes to continue their careers. They've had recent successes like a conference championship and men's basketball and their return of their baseball program. So there's a sense of growth in energy. And maybe most importantly, from my perspective, that killer Teal color that they rock helps me stay locked in when I'm hard at work. So my reminder to you, find the thing that makes you feel the most productive or confident and it's under your control and do that thing.

For me, it's my signature power color. For you, it could be anything else. But give it a try. And let me know how it goes. Another new quick little feature in Spow of the Week. This week's Spow comes from Genesis 49 24 where Jacob is speaking a blessing overall his sons. But this one for Joseph hit me the most, where Jacob says, but his bow remains steady. His arms stayed limber because of the hand of the mighty God of Jacob because of the shepherd, the rock of

Israel. So friend, my prayer for you this week is I hope your bow can stay steady and that your arms

“can be limber. Stretch them out if you need to, but this week, recognize that those things can”

happen, but it doesn't have to be because of your hand. But hopefully because of your shepherd. Coming up on the show, I've got 2026 Milano Cortino Winter Olympian Sarah Warren for you. Sarah has endured close to it dozen knee surgeries and she went from a competitive multi-sport

athlete growing up to a big 10 soccer player at the University of Illinois before ultimately

overcoming to compete on the sport's grandest stage is full of grit and resolve. But she's not

“done yet. She's got her sights set on another season or more of competing on the world stage,”

while also prepping for med school and pursuing her dreams of becoming an orthopedic surgeon.

So she can be like the one that saved her career. Then I've got an incredible conversation with

“leading concussion researcher and former collegiate athlete, Dr. Sean Eagle, so stay tuned.”

This and more coming up on becoming undone. Becoming undone is an extra hype creative

production written in Produce by me, Toby Brooks. Tell a friend about the show and follow along

“our Facebook Instagram and LinkedIn. I'll be coming undone pot. And follow me at Toby Brooks PhD”

on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn. Check out my link to link to yard.ie/tobybrooksphd. Listen, subscribe and leave me a review at Apple Podcasts Spotify. I heart rate you or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time, keep you in better.