Frontier Lines: Travels, Trials, and the Claude Controversy

Sarah comes.

And now it's the better with bourbon podcast, with Brad Martno and Deacon Palmer fast-thinking and smooth drinking. The views in opinion shared on the better with bourbon podcast are our own and those of our guests. Nothing we discussed should be taken as financial, legal, business or gambling advice.

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So the flight was pretty good, but you know, I can talk about it later. Hey, Mitchell's, it's better with bourbon podcast episode six, it's February 25th. And we are in the better with bourbon studios here in Indiana, Pennsylvania, back in the state, back in the state of Pennsylvania. We both traveled a little bit, so we're just going to kind of kick it. What was your travels? Where'd you go? What'd you do? Well, I went to visit the dear friends out in Palm Springs, I've been asking us to visit them out there, so Tonya, when I went out there, and I did not golf like you, but she did, and she shot in 86 with the borrowed set of clubs.

I want to first round this year in California, so I got to be property.

“My wife, that's why she's a running Indiana Country Club, one in his champion.”

Well, for how many years? Best screens in the world. Yeah, where did you play, who'd you visit? Well, the Donley's Mike Mike and Linda. Yeah, yeah. They live right on the one course in the Western beautiful track. I got the walk it with Linda the one day. Talk to all the old folks there and pet the dogs. It was awesome. Eat some fruit off the trees, get some dirty looks from them. Yeah, of course. He said it by us. He actually called me while we were on the golf course yesterday, and I said, hey, I'm going to have to call you back.

And I called him today while I was driving back. We have a stock that we go back and forth on for many, many years. I told him a couple of years ago, you got a gold stock. You're going to pick this up. You're going to take a look at it and he's actually followed the advice and calls with questions every now and again, which I appreciate very much.

“It's great, Mike. But he said the weather today. He's like, yeah, I'm about 90 today. Right. You know, you, but you guys got great weather, right?”

We had it just in stride. I think it was like 65 the first day and then it went up to 75 80. It was right in the mid 70s. It was in your walking around in that in the sun. I mean, it was pure blue skies snow cap mountains for the first time this year. I guess, and it was pretty cool. Yeah, Cali. I mean, it's fun to make fun of California when you're in Pennsylvania, but then you get to California.

When you get to California and you realize, it's about California. Nobody's writing songs about Pennsylvania. They're like a million songs.

Oh, that's a truth. I mean, and if you, if we had, I don't even know if I should do it, but I'm going to do it anyway. We spent a lot of time on the golf courses down where I was. And who were you? Okay. So we went down Bobby Marcus Ricky and Barry McNight, Bob arranged a he's a member of this, I guess vacation club called inspirato. Yeah, the American Express like he arranged and talk about super generous buddy. He arranged the house and just said, I got the house. You guys get down. You know, but he took care of the house, which was beautiful.

We had it's a house that has like four master sweets. The bathrooms are all beautiful giant party area up top main living areas up top third floor. So you can look down on to we were in the Palmetto doons area of South Carolina, which is just gorgeous. And I heard you guys all shared one bedroom. Yeah, definitely not. Ricky suggested it, but I'm like, no, no, no, I'm going to go back to my own room. Yeah, right. But we're a reason I brought up. Got to look it up at the sky is when I was we were out in golf course and Ricky is looking up to the sky. So it's like, what are you doing? Pay attention to what they're doing. You're not hitting a ball well enough to be daydreaming.

And he's like, no, no, no, see all these cam trails there. You just planes everywhere. Look, it's ticked. I'm going to hit me in a face next time. You see me if I keep doing it. But we spent a lot of time talking about cam trails. And I got to be honest with you. And I said, don't probably two, three, four times. I'm like, a couple of years ago, this is exactly the thing that I would have said, I can't believe how ridiculous should do that is this dumbest thing I've ever heard. I guess you're listening to him talk about it for three days. It starts to make a very well research this I know.

Yeah, I can forth a lot of things over the years and and Ricky does dig into ...

You know, a lot of things that he talked about over the years of kind of come true and not kind of come true, but are coming true. So, you know, when used to talk about pizza gate five years ago, everybody kind of looked at him like he had three heads. So, and not just those big bulb was bald heads. I'm talking the weird looking ones that people stare at you. But you know the prospect of playing winter golf no matter how lovely it is where you go.

We had sun all days, but we teed off day two and day, okay, so we played the Arthur Hills course day one.

“We played Fasi O day two, we played RTJ day three. I played that Arthur Hills course, I think twice before and it's great, but I had never played the RTJ course and man was at nice. That was really beautiful.”

But we didn't go over to Kia, what we kept it to those those three makes that this right there. Yeah, and yeah, and I'll tell you that neighborhood, they're great food. We had beautiful food tripping grits for dinner in that low country. I had I had collard greens. I mean, I would have really do it. And what was great too is, you know, those guys, they would have drinks at night. I drank all day woke up had beer had second beer had beer on the golf course that we would get checked in.

It was in the golf cart, we had beer afterwards, we began wine, we'd go have this beautiful sleep like a baby.

And we were doing hot tub outside in that cold weather, which I love. I had the the Tossel cap on, but in a hundred and a quarter degrees. But what are golf is not satisfying? It's like you're playing with somebody else's hands. You know, and you can, I could convince myself, you know, day two, day three to get the long claw. We're still talking about golf right. That's good to say. Just want to make sure that I was on the other side.

We are, we are. Yeah. You know, what was the ironic part of being the youngest guy in this group yet having this most beautiful silver head of hair of the four. That's we one of the group forgot his hat at the restaurant night one. And we called back and I said, is this the lovely gal that helped your favorite group of the night. I think we spoke to you when we came in.

“Oh, yes, I think so. I said, yeah, I was the, the really ravishingly good looking guy with a silver hair there with with three very distinguished yet significantly older gentleman. Do you remember us?”

And she's I have exact, I know exactly what you're talking about. Yeah, anyway, so anyway, we had a great time. And I just, since we're talking about just was, hey, thank you Bobby Marcus for your generous. That was a great trip really appreciate it. But now that is that's bought to the key. Yeah, totally. So on the way back, would you pick up? Yeah, right. So I'm sitting this event airport today. Looking at the market, catching up on emails and messages and I'm just kind of wandering around looking at stuff without looking at it and I realize they have this little like a bourbon shop.

And I think maybe they sold maybe another spirit, maybe there was a gender or something they were selling, but it's it's all whiskey from Georgia and South Carolina. And I'm like, oh, I walk in and I say to the lady, I said, hello, this is a really interesting shop you got. I do a podcast on bourbon and we're filming it tonight if I were going to take a bottle. What's the one I want? She. She said we got a couple good ones, but this is the one that gets typically the the best review. This is called sa van na single barrel founders reserve. This is a straight bourbon whiskey.

But it's kind of funny. It's a straight bourbon whiskey handcrafted in Georgia, which causes a little cognitive dissonance for me, but you know, we're not going to split hairs 54% 108 aged five years.

“Yep. And the bottle's nice. I don't know the first damn thing about it. Didn't have an opportunity to look it up. Yeah, I don't either. This is a lot. Let's see. What do we think?”

But I've been sipping on it. Oh, I haven't had a sip. Yeah, it gives props for the bottle. Yeah, pretty smooth. Well, the nose. I get a little water in there now. Smells nice. No, no real no real boozy scent. Oh, it's not a good taste. I can see why it's one of their better sellers. Do you say boozy boozy. Yeah. Yeah. What we call that? Oh, well, what would you call it? Perry, you would say this has a little bit of a rye. A little bit of a little bit of a. Yeah, a little bit of spice to it. But it has an interesting thing. Like after that goes away. It's got a like a little bit of a dirty stocking taste. Yeah.

It might. Yeah. But there's time tonight. There's an interesting sweetness about a second after you swallow it to taste a little vanilla.

Yeah.

So I had no chance to study this. I have nothing to offer other than a taste. Really good. Yeah, I got nothing.

You know, this was a last minute. It was great. I mean, we had a different bottle already to go today and we know fire. No fire in this. Now, there's no fire. No. For being 100 and was it 100, you say 100, no. Yeah. I mean, it's so props to the lady at the Savannah airport. Yeah.

“Very good. You know, I think for bourbon from a state that's not supposed to be making bourbon. That's pretty good bottle.”

I mean, did you charge you a Mason Dixon tax for that? No, I slipped into after hanging out with Ricky for a couple days. I just let a little. Yeah, I just slowed down a little bit instead of talking so fast. Yeah. And I tell me about your bourbon there. And yeah, she, I think she gave me a two or three dollars. It was a lazy eye. Yeah. That's right. Yeah, this thing guys. So, so, you know, I'm not sure that was the most professional review ever done or will ever do, but it's better than some we've done.

This is not a bad bottle. I've good as it gets with this better with bourbon crew. Yeah. So cheers to the, I can't remember what the name of the story is, but you're in Savannah. The deal with the show is a drink bourbon while you talk about tech and other things and not that you're, you know, bourbon.

Well, we hope I've been proven that over. Yeah, we hope that out for maybe.

We're consumers, we're consumers. After 50 or 100 episodes will be better at reviewing than we will be a drink and but right now we are expert drinkers. Like, yeah, like I said last week, I want to test and reviewers. I want to taste a bourbon one time and say a forced floor. I get, I heard somebody say it once. Why not? It sounded like the dumbest thing I've ever heard to you. A forced floor. The true test will be the bourbonometer and see how low it is by the end of the show. If it's down toward that bottom label, then it's a good bourbon.

Well, in our audience, we also know how many takes we have to do after traveling all day. Both of us, so we'll see how good we really are. So, we have an interesting agenda tonight because we were both traveling and because a lot of the big events that have happened in the world over the last few days have been so well covered. We're just going to hop around a little bit. We're going to do, I mean, we got to talk a little bit about about the hockey game. I know everybody else in the world's talking about it. We followed the Olympics pretty religiously.

We got a little bit of an update on the metal count. Actually, we should do that right now. I think we should. If I'm getting this right and see, it's the highest metal total we've ever accumulated and the highest gold total. I think it was a 12 exactly. It was 12 and we finished second only in Norway, who had the most golds any country has everyone. Well, can I just say that with an asteroid and not to take into winter? Yeah, and I'm not trying to take any against Norway, but they had one guy that was like a standout across country security.

“He won six out of six of his events in cross country skiing. I mean, that's how they traveled there.”

I mean, this guy just, you know, they get around from the post office to the store, you know, he just kept going.

I mean, he hasn't even stopped. He never even stopped and got his gold.

You called it. I think two episodes ago that we won't beat Norway in the metal count. I'm pretty sure he did that. Yeah, it sounds like something I would say. He should be called it. This would become a short clip I'm sure. I called it.

But I guess my point isn't, and again, that which is fantastic. And that was a record in itself when he had six gold medals and sweeping every event that he was in, which is remarkable. But you take out the cross country skiing. We're right there with Norway. You got that right. And I wouldn't say something about these cross country skiing events. Look, how many did he want six all cross country skiing, some of them with the shooting also, like some of us. Do we need that many different cross country?

“I think one of them, he would, you had to wave and like kiss the girls.”

Right, you know, maybe it's where maybe we're unspisted Americans probably. I don't know, maybe I've been drinking too. I don't, I don't see how there can be six different types of cross country skiing. I know the one with the gun is interesting and I have a question about that. I don't understand, like, why do we not have, given the United States military prowess and the pride we take in it?

Why do we not dominate that event? We should be taken away. It's not that nice. It's not that nice. It's better to be with cross country skis or yeah, there's like two of them.

If you ever, if you're other be more like Matt Damon in your own, like, you know, going down the side salms, fast. I'm talking speed skiing and then try to shoot. That makes it a little more interesting, you know? More of a challenge. Have you ever tried shooting?

If you're a, if you're a, if you're a winded and you're breathing heavy. Trying, trying sometime. It's hard enough when you're, hard enough when you're not. Have you ever crossed country skiing?

No, that's no.

I've done a lot of skiing, never crossed country.

And I've done a fair amount of shooting. Well, season for a while running. These aren't Navy seals out there. Let's see. These are athletes that the shooting becomes part of the sport.

They're not really. Well, I mean, I would love to see. You said, I would love if we get some special forces guy who works in the, Yeah. This is a Jordan Paul topic.

This is a Jordan Paul topic. That's Jordan. Well, that doesn't hurt. I did try cross country skiing in Wisconsin because that's the popular sport on the golf course. It's during the wintertime.

And it's not as easy as it looks. No, it doesn't look as you don't. But it's your shuffling. It feels like, you know? Yeah.

And that one where there's a rhythm to it, you know?

That one where they're going around is almost like a motor cross track where they've got to go uphill. And they've got to stop and take the, the skids off the bottom of the thing and talk them in their bib. But if any of it's hanging out, you could penalize. And then you put them back on. I'm like.

Maybe that's big in Norway, Sweden. I just, I, that, it's not interesting. It's not interesting. It's not very. And I hate to take away from the folks that do it because it's an endurance sport for sure.

Of course. But it's impressive. I just don't know really a skill sport. I mean, yeah, that's right. Kind of come into, you know, like everything else, there's a skill to it.

The balance, the athleticism, the quickness, you know?

“And trust me, I get that you have to do balance and athleticism and quickness and cross country.”

But there's not any special flair to it, I guess, is the, is what I'm saying. And I did not watch one cross country episode. I watched one or two for a few minutes and he just, you know, I wanted to make this observation. Whatever happened to the days when Italy, France, Germany would win medals left and right in the winter Olympics. Russia, right.

What, when did all of a sudden it become basically Norway, Austin and Denmark? I mean, that, and it's interesting to see the, some of the competition, the Asian countries are producing. I honestly, I think part of it probably has to do with, you know, back in the 2030 years ago, professional athletes weren't allowed to compete from the United States, but all those other countries,

athletes were all professionals, just going back to even the miracle on ice. That's true.

Hockey thing, those were a bunch of college kids that had never played in the pros played against.

Very, it's a great segue to talk about hockey because, I mean, 46 years later here, we are 46 years to the day. That's a remarkable stack. That's neat. I did not realize we hadn't won a golden hockey since then. We've won three in the 80.

Fun fact, the miracle in ice game when they beat the Russians wasn't the metal game. No, they had to beat Norway. I think are Sweden after that. I think it was Sweden. Yeah.

And here's, okay, here's another fun fact. I got this from another podcast today. Did you know that what was the coach Miracle on Ice? Her Brooks. Brooks.

Her Brooks was the last man cut from the 1960 gold medal team. I didn't know that. And I don't know whether they made the, whether that was a part of the movie. If it was, I had forgotten that detail. But what a spectacular detail.

He was the last guy didn't make any begins. He ends up the coach in 1980, and it's a great sports moment of all the time. I'm really happy for Mike Sullivan because he, you know, he was a part of the fabric here. Another fun fact, you know. The last two coaches that have coach a gold medal winning Olympic hockey team, both coach for the penguins as well.

That's a great step. That's a great step. Her Brooks coach. I didn't know he did. Yeah.

Yeah. Back in almost eight, 90s, early 2000s. So Sydney getting hurt. Do you think that had an effect, especially? I envision him being in the three on three.

I think it made a big difference when the game mattered.

“Because you know, if you, I mean, I just, that's what I was most afraid of.”

You have him out there in the middle, and they move, uh, McDavid to the wing, right? And just let, let those, I mean, Yeah. With that being said, we were still underdogs. And we still persevered in our goalie.

I mean, our goalie, you know, he just got the medal of freedom last night. He's been, he's been marked as the, the new Secretary of Defense, uh, 40, 41 out of 42 stops. I mean, that is amazing. A high goal.

A high goalie can change, you can change a game, change a series. Oh. They had, they really were not the better team. I mean, Canada on paper is the, is the better team. Yeah.

But somebody said we still won. Didn't McKinnon say something off collar after the fact. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it wasn't McKinnon.

Yeah. Yeah. He made a comment. He says, well, you all saw who the better team was out there. So it's because they were more bored, mother fucker.

Yeah. Right.

“That's what we said in a little trouble.”

I mean, I don't know what to mean. It's very, quite. Yeah. It's very uncannadium. Like we talked about.

This little, this over is going up. We talked to the Canadian manners last week with Jordan about the curling. Right. They were, they have not handled this well.

Neither did John Cooper as a coach.

He was being kind of a dick about it too. You know, the presidential medal of freedom I thought was a neat thing.

“So is it just Trump rubbing in the canvas face in the mud right now?”

I don't think so. I mean, okay.

So a firm Brooks 50 first state.

A firm Brooks. Yeah, right. And a Ruzione created maybe the greatest sports moment in American history, possibly. How can you not acknowledge this was some sort of, I mean, I thought it was like, I think everything he did he deserved.

I think he got, I don't know if there's an MVP award. I mean, if there was, you know, between him and Jack. I mean, obviously, give it to him. I mean, I mean, they're both were just came through in clutch. Yeah.

Came through in the clutch. That picture of of, of Hughes with the flag wrapped around a missing. missing the teeth. Yeah. That's a serious still bleeding.

That's hockey. And do you know his mom was in the 1990 Olympics? I didn't know that. Yeah. Yeah.

I think his sister plays. 1990. It was a 92 Olympic sheet played in so it's like a water family. Yeah. So I mean, she's he's he's coming from talent.

And now now you can obviously see where, you know, and obviously is, I think when is is also on the team. So I mean, eight. Yeah. You know, you know, the Hughes boy.

I mean, that's really something. I wanted to share this. I think this is right. I'm going to have to check myself after I say this. So no, no hate mail if this is wrong.

Presidential Medal of Freedom is the highest honor that a civilian can receive in the United States. I have both an aunt and an uncle who received the Presidential Medal of Freedom. Arnold got it from Obama. I want to see that.

It was awesome. I mean, very cool to be in the Rotunda for that. Did you get it? No. No.

In fact, they wouldn't let me anywhere near. I had to, I didn't even see that. I had to stand like in the hall. There comes that one. Did they have a special security with you?

Yeah. Yeah. I think I just, there was. I was going to get saying, he can. Why is that red dot here?

You can see it on the square. And then my aunt Chi Chi. My dad's big sister Arnold's little sister was the inspector general for the army for the last I don't know how many years of her career. Wow.

And she was awarded Presidential Medal of Freedom. Remarkable by President Bush. First. That's awesome. I think that's right.

Yeah. That's amazing.

I'm never seeing Arnold get that award.

It was on the list. I mean, I did this around here. Yeah. I mean, I was going being able to go and see that. The Rotunda in the Capitol is like, oh, awe inspiring.

I mean, it's the art in there is outrageous. I mean, you don't even think I would love to see that. It's crazy. Anyway, I guess they're remodeling right now, right? Oh, I think.

Well, least one, yes, right? New Adam. I don't know. You don't know about the new ballroom? Oh, yeah.

Everybody, more ballroom. You know what? I mean, what shouldn't. Shouldn't America's home base have a party room. I mean, shouldn't it?

“Actually, I mean, that's what we all have.”

Those people agree that it's the right thing to do. It's just something to complain about. I guess from Condor it off though. And he's just going to lease it back to all the parties here. Of course.

Sounds about right. Yeah. Well, anyway, the Olympics. I don't know. The Olympics were great.

We're missing anything on the one. I don't think we are. No, I did want to ask you because since I was out in Palm Springs, it kind of reminded me. I thought I saw somewhere along the lines that are only used to travel out to Palm Springs. He had a lot of friends out there, right?

Back in the day. Yeah. I had a house in Palm Desert. That's what's going to say later. I was talking about really like to there.

Mike and I were kicking that around. I thought I heard that at some point. I'd never been there. But I think somebody just bought that house. Or it's per se.

I don't know what to do. Anyway. But yeah. I liked. We have.

Coming off this kind of. You say you say moment. I'm really looking forward to the World Cup. Me too.

“And I think we have to acknowledge that the women's hockey team also won.”

So to have both. Thank you. You know, both teams win. And our neighbor's, you know, got family that's on the team.

Or the second, the backup goalie.

You know, John. You know, wow. Oh, right, right. Yeah. Oh, John.

Yeah. You're right. Brad's neighbor works for the. Or just, just very recently retired from a long illustrious career at the Federal Reserve. You know, kind of a note here about what's awesome about India and a PA.

We out here in the middle of. Of the forest. And we got to kind of live a next door who can help formulate monetary policy. This is a great. Met this guy in the rose in which is our local dive bar here for you.

Non, non, local folk. That's where I'm at them, too. Is that right? And just started talking came to funny. He goes, oh, you're from DC.

I've spent a bunch of my life in DC. Oh, no kid. And we can back and forth next thing. You know, I'm like, what we're going to work you do. You're like, I'm.

I hope Federal Reserve with, you know, like, holy shit job. What are you doing here in two o'clock in the afternoon, drinking in the bar where the rest of us do nothings are hanging out. I don't know. I've had some crazy conversation.

He was just being interviewed. Yeah.

Yeah.

It's definitely interesting neighborhood.

Yeah, totally. So. So what do you think? We need a roof. I need a roof.

I need a roof. Well, we stuck the fire and the fire will be back right after these. Yeah, we get a little bit of what we can talk a little business. Oh, well, there's a lot. There's a lot of topics right now.

Who knows what we're going to cover? Nothing. Cheers. Cheers. All right.

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You can see that we have refilled. We have refilled. And that fire is looking great. Fire is going up. The bourbon's going down.

And we do have a special guest in the studio. Yeah, we do. He is one of the original OG matches from the Mitch Gore. Gentlemen, how you doing? Johnny Mach is in the house.

Johnny Macha now. Honor to be here with you guys. The bourbon's good, the company's better. Johnny's one of the greatest bourbon connoisseurs I've known. Yeah, that are bourbon drinkers I've ever known.

The conversation better better drinker than a connoisseur, right? We're working on the connoisseur part like you. Audience should know. He sampled the whiskey. Says A, it's good.

“Says it's great and B, it sounds like our tasting notes were pretty right on.”

I think you say John. We're going back for seconds, so that's a good sign. And I get something I want to say, you can't see Johnny, but he's wearing a Penn State hat. That makes me want to say thank you, Pennsylvania. You've got to take in such good care of us.

Thank you, Pennsylvania, for taking such good care of us. Pennsylvania does take care of us. Go to get the PA shout out in. That's right. That's right.

So yeah, so we're going to be doing, you know, last week we broke a little bit of ground.

We had both our first, I'm sorry, two weeks ago we had a call in.

And then we had a studio gas. So we're going to try to expand upon this. The studio gas stands a little, uh, that's a little flare and pezzazz to the action. So there might be more voices in here in the coming weeks. Yeah, we're working on a few different things.

Yeah, some, some friends will, we'll be around. We're not going to let them speak for very good reasons. No, Johnny's in a different camp. They will be out there. They will be in the ball gate and talk up in the corner.

And you know who you are, you know who you are. And then, uh, the Collins, uh, we, we, we, we thought the Collin was really fun. Perry loves Jordan wants to bring him on the show all the time. Jordan, we're trying it. Well, I have to work with Jordan's agent now to figure out where we get time for him to

come back on and what we have to pay him because he's going to have a podcast in career without having any stake in a podcast at all. We were just the first stop of all the sports stations he was talking to. He was awesome. Yeah, so JP thanks your contribution was noting we get back and touched on.

When we were talking about that, well, that's going to be noisy on there. Well, we were talking about that whole double touch incident with the Americans. And the, and the, or I'm sorry with the Canadians and the, uh, Swedes are the thin, thin, thinnest, thinnest team after you do the work. What you call them?

The thinnest, thinnest. Yeah. Yeah. That's appropriate. Yeah.

“Whenever you said, so what's the deal with this double touch?”

What's the deal? And Jordan is so bloody. Yes. Well, the Canadian cheated. Yeah.

Perfect. One, you know, Jordan Jordan is, is great at making a point. Uh, excellent professional speaker. But he also knows me well enough. He knew exactly what I was going for and gave it to me.

Yeah. And I, yeah. That avoid Jay. Right. So, uh, so we have some, uh, but what we do and before we get into that,

I think there's anything we want to just, uh, let the, I'm sure the studio audience probably, and also the audience that's going to be out there is going to know so we have a new prop in the house. Uh, it's, it's the, the leg lamp. And in, in many, may think they've seen this on the Christmas story, but we actually had

Perry's, uh, drag bunny leg. Uh, so we molded, and it's not a major award. This is actually Perry's leg. No, that really is. So, you know, we're talking about just touching to the finish.

Right. You know, right there. It is fragile. Yeah. It is fragile.

You'd be pretty tough to walk out here with the only one leg carrying all this equipment.

And, and I, and I, and I know in one of our promos this week, you know, we ha...

to do a shout out to, to the sphere and, uh, Vegas and the, well,

cause when I saw that big and be slippery, there's only one other's foot that that would fit perfectly on. Well, we, hey, we talked about, did you? I appreciate you thinking about it. Do you play?

Do you play? Do you, I know, did, did, uh, Mrs. Martinowe. Mrs. Martinowe played, uh, she wasn't successful at the time, which is unusual. Usually she's been, I was guessing. Yeah, I was guessing.

I know she's like, yeah. Yeah. She doesn't go far. I know better.

“I, I stayed away from the tables, which, I have a few folks saying, are you feeling okay?”

I'm like, yeah, really? I was, yeah, I was feeling okay. I wasn't feeling up to gambling. So I, I just took in the scenery and it was awesome.

That was kind of like the tail end.

I worked on some notes for it today. And I changed up an article, and as, as a, as a great friend of ours says, work, work, work, Bradley. Work, work, work. It's, it's not work when we, when it's fun like this, is it?

Yeah. Well, that, that's, well, that same guy also says, finished. I'm not even close to finished. I'm just getting started and he'll, he'll, he'll be, he'll be in the, you know, who you are out there. Yeah, he doesn't know who he is.

He's right now. He's probably exactly where we think he is. I know, yeah, he definitely is. We'll get him. We're going to get him.

Todd, we love him. Yeah. Okay. We get a little bit of, uh, we've been dicking around now for how long. We get a little bit of actual business.

Oh, there's 25 minutes. Yeah. There's, there's some serious AI business going on. Yeah. So let's, let's get into it.

Okay. So we're going to, um, two things. Uh, open AI didn't something we're going to talk about. And then we talked a little bit about, um, anthropic. Yeah.

Who's run by the guy, Dario, who is raising the alarm. Anthropica had an interesting week. So we're going to talk about both of those.

Do you care which one you want to do first?

Whatever you, whatever you want to tackle first. I'm all bored. Okay. Let's do the open AI. Open AI.

This week announced, um, you know, uh, uh, and I don't know whether we call it a deal.

“But a partnership with the bunch of management consulting firms that, I think,”

most of America would just say who cares. Why is this important? I don't give a shit. I don't know. I've heard of these companies.

I don't really know what they do. Uh, but they open AI struck a deal with four consulting firms. I think it's McKinsey and BCG, which are like the Mercedes-Benz and BMW of management consulting firms. Uh, cap Gemini, which is like the, uh, four pinto of consulting firms.

I do a lot of federal work. And then, uh, who's the last one? It was, um, yeah, there was one more. What was the last one? It was, uh, it doesn't matter anyway.

Uh, it was the Accenture. Um, yeah, it was your, you know, your, but wiser, uh, old faithful, right? And the deal was that these, um, four, um, management consultants would now align with Open AI to help corporate customers. Um, not just experiment with AI, but move into actually implementing

agentic models, um, that will allow for corporate intelligence to be automated, um, and fully kind of AI enabled. Um, so this is, um, an important step in AI moving beyond this. Well, let's just turn it on and play with it and see what happens. We're going to limit any damage anybody can do, you know,

we're not going to have corporate data in there. They can use it to help write emails or respond to, you know, personal inquiries and just help save a few minutes here or there. That's, that's now going to change in a very profound way because of some of these, agentic advances that we've talked about recently.

The idea that, um, we can allow the AI to actually have access to our data, not just personally, but in this regard kind of corporate financial data, client data, um, and help automate some of the analysis and some of the, the deep reasoning tasks that a management consultant. Yeah. Right.

Um, so the idea here is we're going to roll out actual projects and programs that will help companies make more money. Um, now by enlisting these four consulting firms, and I'm guessing that they're paying them to do so. In some form of fashion and whether it's, yeah, keep on revenue,

basis share or upfront the cost. As their duty to their clients should they be disclosing that now, are they actually looking, if they're pitching this as a salesperson, in my opinion, to their client, uh, and acting as that, that head of sales really enterprise sales.

Is there a conflict there? I think at least full disclosure needs to happen in this case. You have a break, you know, you come and deacon as many, no, may, no, may not know. You come from that world. You worked that gardener.

So, uh, I think, uh, you probably have faced this dilemma before, or know how the firms handle it. Yeah, the economic models pretty much this. Um, there's not, in some models there will be a revenue split,

but what this is really about is when, um, when a company, um, would maybe get in touch with, uh, open AI and say, "Hey, how do we use your tools more effectively on the enterprise level?"

“Because you have to pay for that enterprise access.”

Um, open AI will say, "Hey, instead of you,

You, you know, uh, name a company, um,

the artist.

“Univ artists instead of fumbling around and dicking around,”

and kind of getting in half right, and kind of getting some pieces wrong, and only doing the things you want to do. These four companies can come in and help you in ways that are unique to either, uh,

your economic model or your industry vertical, because they have that expense, what a management consultant does. They come in and they help you with outsourced, understanding about a particular industry,

whether it be financial services or manufacturing distribution, even down into the middle market legal. Um, uh, and those folks would, essentially bill that client organization for services associated with helping them.

Do a handful of things to make AI work. It's not just, do we have a technology stack that supports AI and the way that is necessary? All those, all these major, and if you're a Fortune 500 company,

or even down through a $2 billion middle market company,

you have a technology stack that works. You have cyber and invested. Everything is integrated. You have a server stack that is secure. You have enterprise data.

That's the number two. You have to have a data environment that has data that's able to be analyzed, right? So that's kind of a big, been a big learning curve for a lot of organizations.

Um, your data has to be clean and interoperable. And, uh,

“some people out there will understand the,”

the term garbage in garbage out. The better, the better organization structured your data is, the easier it'll be for an LLM to, you know, to help you analyze it. Uh,

but then the third is really where most big companies, not just relative to AI, but in all kind of technology adoption waves over the, the past and we can talk about them if you want. Uh,

it's not really a technology question. Most of the failure doesn't, it's not that they can't make the technology work. It's that they're operating model, the way they're structured,

what they do every day, isn't properly modified to kind of allow space for these new technical capabilities, which is hence where these for companies coming, because that's exactly what they do every day.

Operating model and to your, governance, right? Who, who, who in the organization is the appropriate person, or, um, the kind of department,

um, who's the appropriate staff to do what, with what data? Who do we not need to give data to? Where do we need to set up barriers?

I think I'm going to like my 15 layer operationally, like governance structure that I formulated. If see this is, then this is exactly why people are like, why would we be talking about this?

Because that's exactly what happens. A 15 layer AI governance structure to most organization, if you like, hey,

what is that? And why do we need it? But it's,

it's essential if you're a public company,

and you're on the board of a public company, and you have, uh, fiduciary responsibility to not only your, your shareholders,

but your, your board and your employees, there have to be, um, set standards about,

well, how do we want to set limits around the use of the technology to make sure that it's not getting, out of hand or exposing us to institutional risk that we're not prepared for? And that's, that's total strikes on for you.

Well,

“and that's where that's what's happened,”

and that's why we've seen some of the fail. You know, I don't even call failures. They're learning experiences that have happened early on in the, uh, adoption, especially now,

since the agentic AI's come on strong, and people have been eager to adopt it, but without knowing properly, knowing to put the AI government structure in place first, um,

thinking that this is just another tool they can add on. Yeah, well, a lot of, here's, okay, so here's an important, so,

this kind of, evolution where we have these new technology tools,

and they're so powerful that they necessitate a new operating model,

maybe we have to move people in different departments around, maybe we have to have different support structures, because certain people aren't going to be wasting time doing jobs, that now the AI is going to, to how do we redeploy those people in ways that are more economically viable,

to help our customers and help us achieve our financial goals. That's essentially what we're talking about. Um, this is not new. Um,

this has happened, okay, in web1.0, when the internet was invented, and we had to figure out,

well, why would I put my business online, what advantage is there for me to that? None of her risk? Yeah,

it's right, it's super high risk, right? And then, you know,

you advance, and we have the wave of, of mobile computing, and, you know, you work in environments like banking,

right? When, when mobile started, banks were scared to death of it, because it was a massive security and cyber, cyber security,

massive, yeah, massive compliance risk, right? Yeah, but they realize we can't,

we can't do business. This is where people want from us. They don't want to come into the branch. They want to do it on their PC or on their phone. So,

these waves of technology evolution are, are not new. Okay, so we should probably, the next one is, is cloud.

Yeah. We move from, from web1.0 to mobile to cloud, and now AI is the natural kind of,

You know,

step forward. So, big companies know they have to do this. But the reason there are so many consulting companies, they have to come in and help them,

“because I think to this point in history,”

if you're on a board of a Fortune 500 company, which I've worked with, several, speaking of the school here, or you run a middle market company that makes,

you know, anywhere from N runs no longer around by the way, yeah, right?

You make something from a hundred billion dollars,

a hundred million dollars up to about two billion dollars. That's two billion dollars, sounds massive, but we're calling that a middle market company. As an executive or a board member,

you could choose to be kind of, tackling wool, or tech savvy, or not. And, you know,

I think that now that we're talking about a gigantic development and the change in the fundamental nature, or the workforce, and the fundamental nature of how we're using,

not just our own data, but our customers data, and the security requirements that aren't inherent in a move like that. Board members and CEOs are no longer able to be

a technology adjacent, they're going to have to really engage with that CTO, chief technology officer, chief data officer, chief risk officer, chief legal,

I mean, you're running into the choir here. Yeah, running a company is becoming way more complicated. And if you don't have that skill set, you're going to have to retire, right?

It's become absolutely critically necessary at this point. So, if you're a leader in any of these major corporations and companies, even privately held companies, if you want to be successful

against your competitors in your industry,

“you have to know how to talk to the folks in your teams,”

and your teams, different teams, whether it's your IT department, whether it's your risk department, whether it's your legal department, your business development department,

because AI is playing a big role, or can play a big role in all those. It has to play a big role, because what we're seeing very clearly is in public companies and the public markets,

valuations for organizations who have moved beyond kind of that, well, we're kind of playing with, we're doing a pilot, and then we're going to do another pilot.

And it's experimenting. Companies who are actually committing to this as a core kind of foundational tenant and how we run the business are committing higher multiples.

They are. And when you move down to, and this is really important, when you leave the Fortune 500, because how many people actually are for Fortune 500 companies,

hundreds of Shazillions and Shazillions, is a Shazillions people work for companies

between $100 million and $2 billion.

And most people at work in corporate America do. Those companies are being valued by either public markets or private equity buyers, really in a way that's very contingent upon their ability to make sense of an AI strategy,

show actual wins that are economically viable, and typically that means ringing out, cost, not of your delivery model, whatever that is, whether you're a manufacturer again,

or working insurance or healthcare. And that is unfortunately kind of the first step in two degree machines, superseding humans ability to do the jobs that they've had to this point.

I'm not at a point yet, where I'm willing to see this idea that this means people are going to lose their jobs.

“I think that it's just like everything else.”

Those people are going to have to be repurposed and find ways to find economic value, which coming full circle is why you hire that consulting firm to come in and help you do this, right? Honestly, it's going to be a shift.

So, yeah, you may be losing the job that you know today. It's going to shift. And if you're a great worker, you're going to find something for you to do for that organization tomorrow.

Of course, that makes a lot of sense. And based on what you're doing today, you may be able to help oversee what's being done by AI. So, your utility is not going to go away. Interesting headline, although I don't know

this person's name. It was Microsoft's head of AI. Current head of AI. The one said this week that in a year and a half all white-goler jobs,

all white-collar jobs will be automated at a genetic surface. Yeah, that's right. But, you know, again, coming down to like real world,

I mean, Perry runs a business. You've even talked to him about the benefit to AI. And that's exactly, I don't know if we're okay to talk about. You want to give a snippet about what you-- Yeah, and we were working on his stocking line,

and it's amazing how AI can-- You probably shouldn't talk about this. It's actually available. [laughter] It's coming out.

It's called a leg above. That's right. [laughter] That's right. That's even better.

[laughter] But, I might as well just get on board with this

because it's never going to go.

No, it's called Perry's Bunny's Paradise and it's coming in. We're going to have a-- Product-- No pun intended. Yeah, no pun intended.

It's all in playful fun. Just like Perry likes to dress up. And we have no problem with that.

Yeah, I'm pouring silver to blossom.

No, that's way overplayed, right?

“No, but it's predictive maintenance is what we're--”

It is. Perry works in a-- In a magnized environment, and the machine that they run is very big. Requires a lot of management and maintenance.

It's very expensive. So some of the predictive capabilities that AI can say-- And AI can sense things that humans can't. So--

Exactly. You know, whether it's through the vibrations, the heat, the, you know, the-- Any mechanical failure that can have a sensor put to it. They're able to pick this up.

Before the human eye or touch or sense, and usually it's after the fact and now you're repairing, and especially in organizations that are running six to seven days a week, that downtime cost you money.

Absolutely. But time through the procurement market is not easily gotten today through the shipping, you know, a channel. So the rules are all real dollars that can be fixed real quick

with AI-sensored technology

and the predictive maintenance is amazing.

Yeah, yeah. So I mean, that's where this idea of, oh, come tell me about it. Have somebody who could fix this for me. Potentially maybe some--

the speed for implementation in this shift. This is actually probably something we should, we should. You know, we talked about some of these major technology waves that have kind of washed over corporate America. You know, back in the Y2K era,

there was this move toward ERP, enterprise resource planning. And all these big companies and lots of middle market companies were trying to automate stuff like accounting, like general ledger, accounts payable, human resources,

hiring, sorting, you know, manufacturing, what's our supply chain look like?

“Where we need this part, where is it in our supplier network?”

Can we get it here tomorrow? That was all mainly quoted though, too. So yeah, that's right. And those implementations, again, in those days, you would hire a consulting firm like a Peoplesoft

or an Accenture or a KPMG to come in and they would, you know, spend a year and a half doing what's called requirements analysis, where they're charging you, hundreds and thousands of dollars an hour to have a bunch of 23 year olds sit and talk to people who've been doing their job

for 20 years. Let's say, okay, that's a great point. Okay, so you're telling me you take the TPS report and you actually deliver it. It's office space.

And that's a requirement. So they document that and then you'd find a way for a code to come in and write code to have that document and up in this person test without Mary having to pick it up. You're putting that here.

That process caused massive heartache. And ERP was necessary because we had to automate those processes back in Web.0, one day Web1.0 days. But it left a lot of scar tissue on corporate America and it's

“what led a lot of, you know, I think it's seen it.”

Like a lot of leaders, you know, kind of hold technology advancement of arms length and they want the benefits of it. But they do not deliver those years.

Yeah, they don't want to do it first.

You know, happy to be fifth. Happy to learn from my three competitors doing it wrong and losing money. And then I can hire the same consumer. They just fired to come in and not make the same mistake.

And this is the way corporate America works. So in some senses, this move toward a genetic AI adoption is nothing new. What makes it new is just the power and the speed with which that implementation process is going to happen.

Instead of 18 months doing requirements before you write a line of code, like it was back in 98, 2002. Today, you can come in and start talking to the agent in six months. Have your whole process.

I was going to say 18 months right now. It's an E on of time. Yeah. I mean, you're already going into the next phase. So in just like we were in the initial phase.

And I just wrote an article on this this morning on shifting from experimental to practical AI agentic AI. And how enterprises are looking at it more realistically now. And that was the lesson learned. It is the quick adoption was not smart.

Yeah, it was fun to play with. But there were some real risks out there by letting agents go out there and do autonomous tasks that were not properly guardrailed. So now the measures are being put in place.

And once the measures are put in place, these tools are very powerful. And this is as we talk about every day. Like with anthropic and open AI and Gemini. They're all coming out with better agent systems that are working

even more efficiently, more reliably or safely. And there are safeguards building in those models. There are. But those are those are societal level safeguards. Right.

They're not. They're not keep employee A and B from losing the model in a way that would be detrimental to the company. Or that process is what we're talking about. We say the word governance.

That's what we're talking about. It's been a long time. Thank you. Sarah come and talk about what's on her brain on the brain.

Overgled that we bring for school and can't be used to it.

Over the Meinungsfreiheit, the Monnons name in Will.

We work with the employees, the employees, and many people. I'm Sarah Wagner. And I'm afraid of my concern in your state. I live Sarah Live on March 2 to 18 o'clock in the leader hall of Stuttgart. I'm exactly right.

“And that's what we're talking on the enterprise level.”

We're talking what's going on within those organizational walls that could affect what's going on. You have to be able to protect that. Now, we can certainly talk about how you're dealing with the platforms too, whether we're siloing that, where we're taking an offline, keeping it protected. Those are all ways to do it too depending on the regulation,

in the industry that's going on and how we have to protect it. But it's an interesting dynamic going on, especially with the cloud market. The cloud was the thing placed to go. That's that's why AWS has kind of changed it. And said, you know what, we're going to bring the cloud to you and do it on the enterprise.

You know, well, this would be, this would be a real tangents. We probably have to table this. We are. We keep going on.

You know what we're going to do.

We're going to bring Michelle on. Yeah. To talk about the difference between cloud computing and this paradigm where we're using AI micro processors are getting so small and so powerful. And we have very recently, and we're going to talk about it here in a minute,

been able to start running models that have enough memory and enough processing power, where you don't have to get data on the phone or get data in the car, send it over the public air waves into a cloud for the data to be manipulated, and then have the answer sent back to you on the highway or, you know, in the mall or wherever you are, these processors are now becoming fast enough.

And the architectures are being engineered in such a way where you can run an entire LLM on your phone. You don't need to go to the cloud. You don't need massive boxes of servers to change the game. It's a complete game changer. Yeah.

And that's kind of probably a good kind of point to segue to come back to our second thing. You want to take a break and we'll come back talk about it. We freshen up and we stoke the fire and we get into that. Yeah. This might be a two ice cube.

We were talking about we've, I've never made it to a second ice cube,

“but I think tonight we're going to make it there.”

Yeah. Usually we go and eat at the end. Yeah, this is going to disappear. Well, I need to go to the doctor and I find it. We're going to come back a good.

It's very good. Yeah. We're going to come back and slower our way through a conversation about anthropic and what they're doing with the deep sea and the Chinese competitors who are trying to steal their shit. This is the first time I give a legal briefing with three Burmese and me.

All right. We'll be right back. Cheers. All right. What happens when work disappears when money dissolves and when freedom becomes something you earn.

Not something you're born with. A new kind of power is rising, not a government, not a corporation, but the algorithm. In the algorithmic state, no jobs, no money, little freedom. Amazon best selling author Bradley J. Martinowe reveals the world we're stepping into. A world where your reputation is computed, your opportunities are filtered.

And your identity is shaped by systems that know you better than you know yourself. This is not science fiction. This is the operating manual of the future forming around us right now.

“If you want to understand the forces that will define power, belonging and freedom in the decades ahead,”

start here. The algorithmic state, no jobs, no money, little freedom. Available now on Amazon. What's up, Mitch, is we're back. We're back.

We, as you can see, we are, we are refilled. We are loaded. We're from Burmese. Burmese. Down.

Burmese. Fire is crackling. It is. We're going to talk a little bit about anthropic and their news this week. But before we do that, we need to throw it to Perry for a little bit of acknowledgement.

We got a really great message this week from the end. What was that, Per? Yep. A long time friend, Beth Kowback. Beth, I hope you're enjoying this week's episode.

Took the time to send me a text telling me how much she enjoyed the show. Enjoyed listening to it. She listened to it. I'm curious here with us and it was a very heartfelt end. We love the fact that you're listening to that.

Yeah, thank you. We appreciate you. Enjoy your ride to Pittsburgh. Someday maybe we'll be able to put a show out every day. We'll see.

She said she wished it was one every day. She could listen to it. Appreciate it. I know her from back when the kids were playing hockey. Yeah, I think her son knows Andrew.

Yeah, of course. Yeah. Yeah. Pretty cool. Thanks, Beth.

Appreciate it. Hope you're enjoying it. Yes. Hey, Beth. If you're ever in town, come over for Burmese and sit in on a show.

I mean, we'd love to see you on the show.

We'd love to see you on the show.

We'd love to see you on the show. We'd love to see you on the show. We'd love to see you on the show. Hope to see you on the show. Hope to see you on the show.

Hope to see you on the show. Hope to see you on the show. Hope to see you on the show. Hope to see you on the show. Hope to see you on the show.

Hope to see you on the show. Hope to see you on the show. Hope to see you on the show.

Hope to see you on the show.

Hope to see you on the show. Hope to see you on the show. Hope to see you on the show. Hope to see you on the show. Hope to see you on the show.

Hope to see you on the show. Hope to see you on the show. Sam Altman has made himself famous by going as fast as possible. And this guy left Sam Altman to go start his own company. What would be the smartest thing for him to do?

Is take the opposite stance at the opposite of what Sam Altman was like. So yeah, this week they didn't want to hold hands on the stage. They were the break. They were the break in the whole. Getting up there and showing unity overseas. It was very. I didn't know that. All right. Well, so he.

Dario has pushed back on the department of defense. And he just said, yeah, we would love for you to use. Our model. And we'd be happy to do that. But we need to make sure that you're not going to use it to do a couple of things. And the government said.

That's exactly what you want to use it for. What are you talking about? This is the US government. We would like to use it for massive balancing. We let you do it for mass destruction.

So what are you saying we can't do that? Very specific. Very specifically he is concerned about. But the model's ability to surveil private citizens and, you know, invade privacy protections that all US citizens are supposed to have.

I think this is hilarious because none of us have any goddamn privacy because we don't own our data. And I'm not going to go off on a tangent. But there's a, you know, data and online living and consumer behavior in the form of data has been available.

“I mean, that's why Google's in business.”

Well, I'm Microsoft and business and you'll notice that we've never had a bill that has talked about what rights you have to your own data.

And there's a very goddamn good reason. It's not because the companies are going to make money. It's because the government wants to say, hey, we need this and this and this and this when it's convenient for them.

The algorithmic statements.

Yeah, that's right.

Yes, Bradley is a groundbreaking author.

And this should be not read the algorithmic state. It will give a much more eloquent and more complete description of exactly what we're talking about. But that said need to take a step back. He doesn't want the OD to use his tool to surveil people, which it would be absolutely spectacular. This said, he was this week's headline.

A lot of media outlets kind of reported this wrong.

“What a lot of folks said is, you might, you guys might remember the company called Deepseek.”

Deepseek is a Chinese AI lab. They're an AI model.

They're trying to build their own model to compete with all of the models that are born here in US that we talk about all the time.

And they're the ones that have gotten far enough. They're a little bit handicapped because the US government has made it a matter of national defense priority that we're not going to sell aggressor countries, China and North Korea. They're not getting these Nvidia chips that are necessary to do two things with these LLM models. One, train them. Okay, and we're going to talk about what that means.

We've talked about it before, but then to allow them to provide what's called inference to their customers. So we've restricted sales of the Nvidia chips to China.

“And so, and my two cents on the Deepseek is essentially it's China's version of our furniture or any other manufacturing.”

You know, it's going to be made very cheap and made by kids. So this is, okay, so here's, if I were at home, I would say to myself, well, how in the world can you make an AI model cheaply? Yeah, right? So how does that exist? Right. Right. We've been talking about for five weeks now, all the money that these companies are raising to ensure that they have facilities and electricity and computing power to be able to build these, not just build them, but then refine them over time. Right.

Okay. So anthropic spent billions of dollars developing and what's called training their AI model. The process of training is one that's important to understand because when an AI model thinks for you and you ask it a question. What essentially happens is you say stuff like, I need and the model takes those words is I need and it goes through a massive number of iterations of what could possibly come next. It's, it's calculating the percentage likelihood that you might say I need something to eat or I need a drink really bad or I need to take a dump or I need sex or whatever it is.

“Or I need a quad guys face routine and the model will calculate the percentage likelihood of you asking a particular question and that's what allows it to go back to what's essentially when you train a model.”

You're essentially giving the machine a memory, right. So when you're asking it a question, it's learning from what you're asking it. This process is called context. You're providing it context through what you're typing into the chat bar or the data that you're giving it in the chat bar. And then it's going to say, okay, based on all of this information that I've just, I've just perceived. I need to start doing the work before they're done, right, to find the answer and to render it as quickly, which is called inference.

Training is creating the memory inferences using that memory to give the advice to learn from it. Yeah, give you an answer and then use that to build on it, right. Right. So anthropic has a model that is really good at a number of things that the Chinese want to be really good at. Well, and it's a compliment, I think the Chinese are attack.

Oh, of course it is, but the Chinese can't get rights to the hardware that is necessary to train. And the reason we made the distinction between training and inference is because you can't provide world class inference if you don't have training until deep seek has figured out what we can do. And this is really remarkable deep seek stood up. Something like I'm going to get the number wrong, but 30,000 agents bots, the chat bots, they did and they align those chat bots to what's called a proxy server.

That's right. Proxy server is somebody that buys right to conduct Internet traffic on your behalf. And if you're somebody like China, you would hire a proxy server. And it's a later obscure who's accessing the model. Yeah, go. It's just the late terms that is.

They watch the bike their pal. Yeah, I laid that heavy in the late terms. Yeah. I laid that heavy on the mic. So what I'm saying in late terms is that they're making these bots look like humans are coming in to do.

do, the normal, how would you know? How would you know? How would you know? How would

you know? Right? I don't know. I don't know. Basically unless it was a massive basis where

That where the numbers kind of went up so great, then it raised concerns, right?

well, so here's what, here's what, here's, what is it? Well, okay, first one. Yeah, hold on,

“part one before part two, because if I don't say this, I'm going to, I'm going to lose. Okay,”

what deep seek was doing is they were standing up fake people, bots, aligning them through a gateway that allowed them to be obscured. It was no longer Chinese. It was just some students somewhere asking the, the Claude a question. They must, and what's interesting is they would, they just started peppering the LLM Claude with thousands and thousands and thousands and millions and billions of questions that were very complex. Explain to me your reasoning and thought

process Claude on how you would solve this problem, right? And then they would ask another question, then they would ask another question. They would say, okay, well, why did you eliminate a certain answer? Right. Why did you propagate this answer? And so they would ask enough questions using technology using AI. It's genius to just hammer this thing with question after question after question after question. And what they were doing is they were essentially learning from the answers.

Yeah. So, so, so deep seek, yeah, was taken this, they were taking the questions, the logic that they were receiving back and the answers, and then just feeding it to their model and say, okay, their cheaper model that's on the, we want you to do this. And it's not as robust as, and the important thing is, if you don't have the hardware, if you don't have the Nvidia chips to do the training, which the Chinese do not, you can't do that really heavy lifting,

where you're actually creating kind of a memory, again, I use the term memory, if you like, if you're a person, well, how do you know anything? Well, because somebody told you to remember it,

“and that's what training an AI model is. They don't have the ability to do that. So, what they did”

is just start hammering it with messages, get, you know, essentially instead of having a hundred percent complete understanding of how Claude would come up with the answer, they would have

a 85-90 percent answer, which is typically good enough, which is usually good enough, right? And

and I got to give the Chinese credit here, because who the thought they would have gotten a gold medal in the winter Olympics of AI? Because, well, and that's right. And honestly, this is kind of the loophole, and they figured it out. Well, hold on, okay, so this process that we're talking about, where you just, you just pepper a model with questions, and then based on the answers, that you get back, you can essentially build your own model without having to go through the

very labor-intensive, very expensive process of training and building your own model. You can engineer it. That's exactly right. The reverse engineering it, and they now have what's interesting, is essentially a lighter-faster model, right, that is not encumbered by hundreds of billions of parameters in training, right? And they're able to use these very complicated sets of questions to understand, not just how they get the answer, but how they decide that an answer is not going

to work and go toward a different answer. So they're essentially training a model without having to spend the money to train a model. It's brilliant. So as a lawyer, this is where it kicks in though,

“right? So, yeah, right. So here, okay, so the question for you is, what recourse is illegal?”

Yeah, what recourse does claw just, just, just, he's a lot of what recourse does, well, in the anthropic half. Can they sue the Chinese for patent-right infringement? And I think they will sue them. Okay, we'll give you your opinion, because I have one I want to share. Yeah, go. Well, under the digital millennium, Brad's an attorney just want to remind you, this is his strike zone. So his opinion is more important than a hundred percent of it. And I've tried to

issue those feathers, so if it doesn't come across, that understandably so. But the digital millennium copyright act of 1998, which was put in place, right? Holy shit. Okay, you're going to, you go right after the internet came on. And it need to be put in place

was to protect internet companies for a couple of things. So the very first thing that was put on,

it was the notice and take down clauses, which were for platforms that if somebody on your platform posted something that was copyright infringing, you had the right to get notice and then have the right take it down. Mm-hmm. Well, in Perry, I know you have many relevant stories, because you have so many relevant to the top. Not the length. Sorry to interrupt. But, but let me ask him, did they steal anything? Well, here's where they're arguing, is the second part. And what they're arguing is on the,

and I need to read the language just to make sure that I'm, uh, uh, not a circumvention of technical controls. So, right, on the internet, right, they didn't, they didn't steal code. They did not, they didn't hack. They didn't steal codes. So what they're arguing is that they have the, you know, the captures that you know, we have to make sure you're not a bot that's coming in, you know, protections, or they have the, the limitations of usage,

or they have the, you know, uh, any of these other parameters that are in place, they're arguing those are a circumvention of technical controls to their copyright rate, copyrighted material,

Which this still has to be a copyrighted, uh, protection of their, and here's...

and me and argues, and this is where our government has failed these companies, because they thought they were big and bold to come out and say nothing that's done by AI is copyrighted. It has to be human controlled. It has to be human that's read it. Oh, and yeah. So if it's coming out of an AI, well, that's going to need modified. Right. Well, not from us. Yeah. Yeah. What you know, you know, who's going to be at that table going, I, I, I demand this, right? Well, you know what,

here's the analogy. So why not was listening to this? And I'm thinking of myself. So did the

Chinese deep seek hack, and the topic in steel code, the answer is no. So I looked at it the other way.

“Well, okay. Well, did Anthropic, like, I'm thinking about like, what claim could they have?”

And I think the answer is Anthropic, you just need to be a little more stringent about your access control. Well, and Anthropic's also been on the receiving end of that. Yeah. They've said, you know, they went out, and when they trained their models, they were using a lot of unauthorized access and materials. Oh, that's, that's such a great comment. Let me, this is too good. What Bradley stocking about is, is a comment from Elon Musk. Elon Musk came out.

I think just yesterday and said, this is so hilarious that that Dario and Anthropic are complaining about somebody stealing their technology in a way that's actually, you know, the irony is bourbon palpable. Well, because because he said, they trained, they trained a lot on stolen content for all authors and public periodicals. Right. And stuff that people own like books, magazines, published academic articles, they just stole all that stuff before there was a rule that said,

you can't have it. So Elon Musk came out and said, you're going to be kidding me. The irony here is so thick. You're angry because they stole your stuff without stealing it when you stole everybody

“else is stuff without stealing it. Yeah. You should. Right. Yeah. Well, and it even gets better because,”

you know, again, if there's no copyright protection, they have no leg to stand on and tell

the governments and they will. It's like the first wave of the internet come out. So they think

this is the bad, you know, the bad player in the room is trying to do bad things. It's affecting creativity, it's affecting this, where all these different levels, which I appreciate, you know, if it really is and you're stealing other, you know, people's original work, that's not not good. But my answer, they're not doing that. They're, well, they're not, and I would agree with you of here because here, what they're doing and this, and this is a crux of the issue and it's much

late because they're not, hold on, they're not trying to copy. They're not a plot. They are trying to use, they're trying to use the rational, the logic strings and, you know, answers from them, they reverse engineer how a plot comes up with those answers. And this is the perfect Google analogy, interesting because it's the output. Yeah. So when you type something into Google and you search it and you get that output and Google has its algorithm and it's, it's software in the

background that's doing all the web crawling that brings that to the forefront. There's a lawsuit that's pending right now on that very issue by another company that is taking Google's outputs for their own use and they're saying, no, you can't do that scraping and use it for your own use. But, but, but, but, but as, as far as I understand this, deep seek is not taking their outputs. They're understanding the logic and the thought process implementing it and with their own code

and creating outputs of their own. They're not stealing anybody's outputs. They're stealing the thought process that leads to the outputs, but how they're stealing the thought process by reverse engineer exactly. Yeah, so they're not stealing anything, but they're taking the outputs to reverse engineer of that thought process. So, but here, here's where I get back here's where I think it feels. If I, if I'm arguing this row, if I'm the judge on this, yeah. There's no copyright

stance right, at least not in America. Our, our laws have made it very, very clear. Our copyright offices come out and said, if it's created by AI, there's no copyright protection. There's no copyright. Therefore, anthropic has zero copyright protection. That's, that's the way that, again,

second time I said my monkey brain perceived this. And I, I was thinking, you're going to laugh at

me when I tell you this. Definitely 25 years ago, 20, 25 years ago, this is so dumb. I think it was Yoke play or one of the yogurt companies ran a promotion. And I just remember this. I didn't researches. They ran a promotion where every time you'd peel open the yogurt pod on the, on the

“foil top, there were airline miles. And I can't remember that was United or US error, whatever.”

Right. It's like, yeah, you, you, you, you, you, yogurt, you get, let's call it 300 airline miles.

Some guy was eating his yogurt.

and he finally sat down. He said, wait a second. If I just, if I bought say $10,000 with a yogurt,

I would get $800,000 worth of airline tickets. So we did that. And the airline is like,

“what the fuck? And they tried to find a way to get, do you, do you remember this?”

No, I mean, it's so obscure. But that was just urban going now. What, what, what, what, what, what, what recourse does the airline have? You're running a promotion that all the guy did was math. Well, and that's what deep she's doing. They're just doing math to figure out how we, yeah. Have you seen the documentary about Pepsi, giving away a fighter jet? Yeah, that's a great guy. I legitimately won. He did. He'd be, and that's exactly the same case, the Pepsi jet.

That's exactly when you started talking about that. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Oh, I'm not familiar with that. Yeah, it's on, it's on one of the documentaries. They had, it had something to do with if you, if you, it's like, how many points, and yeah. And when I used to smoke, marble did the same thing. You would collect the marble miles off the side of the pack, and then you could buy merchandise with it. Well, Pepsi ran some kind of a promotion,

or if he bought so much Pepsi, they would give you a fighter jet. It was a joke. It was obviously a joke. But the guy did hit it, and then he actually sued them and forced it. He won. Yeah, he got it. And I'm sure it's a documentary. I'm sure it's a great example. Same thing. It's a documentary. It's going to appreciate Perry's, uh, raspy smoking voice, because it goes perfect with, and those sides 13 slettos and stockings. Perry doesn't smoke anymore.

Yeah, you're very healthy. Yeah, of course you are. Well, I'm not healthy, but I don't, I don't smoke. Hey, Harry, you look good. The skin's not there. The leg's everything, which yeah. Right. So, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know whether we have reached any conclusions.

“No, I don't think we have, but I think Dario's probably barking up a wrong tree here,”

because in Google's not going to get, and I was, as I was researching this little further today, because I knew that this existed out there. Google hasn't gotten very far with it either, because that's the question. So, if it's free to the public, it's openly accessible. Okay. Yeah. That's not, that's not what they did. They bought it, but you keep on. Yeah. Well, but what I'm saying, I was saying, I was like,

assume, okay, we'll get past that. So, even if, get past the accessibility layer, if they bought, whatever, they bought access. Okay. If they bought access, absolutely. And now they have access to it. But then again, you got to look to the terms and conditions. Right. And that may be a whole different, well, that's where I'm, the whole different fight. So, yeah, that's where I'm landed on that. Well, well, if there are terms in terms of conditions, you can't ask a lot, a lot of really good

questions. Well, no, they're going to regulate that. No, but the terms in conditions can say, you can't use an automated system to come in. Well, I think that's clearly where they're going, because the, what, what, what I understand about what anthropic is trying to do to thwart these efforts, and they're already well in their way, and this obviously we're not reading about it. That this is already happened. They are, when you, when you are a third party actor trying to

“access an enterprise model that you've paid to have access for, you have to do it through something”

called an API application protocol interface. That's how one piece of software talks to another piece of software. It's like your way to the kitchen. Exactly. And what is happening is anthropic has now started looking for certain types of API traffic cadence of queries.

You know, a human is never going to ask a really complicated three, three layered question,

every 30 seconds for nine hours about the same topic. That's not human behavior. That's clearly something that's automated, right? And that's a bot in trying to bang in the model to ask it. As many questions as possible to figure out, how do we get to where we're going and what's going on there? What do you say, Bear? So you keep talking about bots. So these are the same bots that post all these posts on social media, a lot of them are just bullshit. And in their AI generated,

in every argument, every day in is not one one of them. No, I get away from that. But that's exactly what I say bot. That's exactly what I say bot. So these are these also the things that the Trump administration has accused China of using to try to sway elections and so how do they, so it's explain how those work? Like what do they say? They tell AI,

hey, send a million bots out to go make these posts on social media. Do you want to chat with people?

Well, I'll let you tackle, but I would just say this, it's very much so like the agentic world that's out there right now. But it's the bots were on a, on a solo mission. So when you was sending the bots out before, you had one task that you threw them up and they did. And if that task was to argue with Perry, mirror online about every, uh, uh, still little fashion that was out there, uh, like they know and not like they know.

Genetic they have the ability to learn from the response right after another ...

to rail on it. Like they know what I know, but now that, well, well, now the bots are getting smarter. Right. Right. And um, okay. So we do need a break. Okay. Oh, our technology is going to blow up. Okay. No, well, Perry's the little's getting hot. Okay. They just got red heels. So we're, we're, we're, remember, remember where we were and we'll come back. Yeah, no problem. We get about five more things to say that we probably do. Nobody gives a shit. Yeah, we're probably going to cover it anyway.

We're going to cover it anyway. Oh, this is our last one. After the like, like your, it'll be good. Like you said early on, nobody, nobody gives a shit anyway. That's right. All right. We're back in the

second to finish this up for our entertainment. Right.

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“manual of the future forming around us right now. If you want to understand the forces that will”

define power belonging and freedom in the decades ahead, start here. The algorithmic state, no jobs, no money, little freedom available now on Amazon. So here, here's my question. A lot of it. My question is, if the Chinese are using there, what's the name? Deep sea. They're using deep sea to use our systems to their advantage to train their systems and train their model. You got it? Could we give them bad information

intentionally to throw their model off? Interesting question. I love the fact that you asked that question because it means that you asked it the right way. Are we doing a good job explaining this? I don't know. I'm not going to. You're doing a great job. Because if I understand it, your question is a great one. It's a great question and that's where we can get into. Yeah, right. So the answer to that is when, oh, let's fucking start over. I'm sorry.

I thought we were fucking around. No, thank you. This is a great content. I thought he was

“rolling. Yeah, we've been there. We are good. Okay, yeah. I'm sorry. I'm wondering there. I think”

people are messing up. So the answer to that question is, just keep it a real brand. All right, thank you, brother. So when the Chinese use these fake proxy servers, yeah, these bots with the proxy servers to make these calls to anthropic, they look like American servers coming in.

Well, they have to come through what's called an API, right? We talked about this just a second

ago. Because of the nature of the way that those prompts are delivered, the structure of those quite no, no human is going to send a question every 30 seconds about a topic for 12 hours. Other than me. Yeah, maybe maybe you would. How do I put these shoes on Perry's picture? I've literally been pounding AI. Like it's, how do I make it look like? How do I make it more going through a wicked witch of these. They're like, I don't know who this Chinese bot is, but

god damn it. Let's get a mod here. If a month. Okay. So a fanthropic is getting a question like

“explained to me your rationale and internal reasoning for how to turn. What did I say, really?”

I should propel alcohol into a nuclear bomb. That's perfect. Right. Right. I mean, we're going to do it on that one. Well, I can't even like talk about how you were able to pronounce it. A demented human being could ask that question. Yeah. And they might ask a follow up and they might

ask a third follow up. But the way that the prompts are coming from deep seek, it is, it is,

every 30 seconds, there's a new, thousands and thousands and thousands of questions about a topic that is completely obscure and nobody's actually researching. So they can, they can detect. It's, that's not a human asking that. Total Chinese fucking. So are the, when they do that, are the questions? Yeah. Is it a question on a topic? And then 30 seconds later, a follow up question on

The same topic, or is it like a totally random different topic?

that thousands of questions about a topic, not to understand the topic, but to understand how the model gets from the initial question to the answer. It's about the logic and the reasoning,

“because that's what they want. They don't give a shit about what the fucking answer is. They don't”

care. They're going to generate their own answers with their own model. What they care about is having the ability to generate inference without having to spend the money to do training. Because one, they don't have the money. And two, they can't buy the equipment that's necessarily to train the model. So here's the question. So should there be copyright protections on AI

inference? No. No, I don't, well, first of all, there's, I don't, again, I'm not an attorney.

I don't see how that could be possible. Well, there's, and right now, as it stands, there's no copyright protections on anything AI produces. Well, in a world where there's AI, how do you, how do you, how do you copyright? Well, and I think that's where copyright is going to lose a little bit of its edge. It's already lost it. Well, it has. And it's going to get rounded down, right? So it's how many authors have lost control of their IP in books that they sweat and slaveed over. It's spent months

writing that people like, and there's again, back to what we said earlier, Dario, but they just shocked up before there was a law, but the lawsuits have been instilled since. No matter, you already has the model. I mean, they might have to make some recompense, and I don't understand there's been something else. It's a bulltake. It's a bulltake. I mean, we're going to read some of them, I'm ready to take it, and then even pay it later, right? So, okay, it's an afterthought, yeah.

At a $3,000, Dario could pay that himself out of, you can't know. No, it's definitely right. But when he wasn't doing the kind of multiples he's doing today, three years ago, that's a different, you know, that's a different, the question is, does can we use this as a weapon against the Chinese

to win the proverbial--we're not that shy race. Well, when you talk about it, we're always on the

defense. Once, hence the hockey guy, when you--I'm true. The process of, uh, say the question again. I said, could we use--if we know their abusing our technology that way? Yeah. Could we use that as a weapon against them? Um, no, we, I mean, we know now. Other than making the model dumb, here's what they're doing to protect against this, and this is actually, it's happening. When they receive all those prompts, and they detect that this is not a human asking a question

that a human needs, what they do is they start varying the cadence and the response structure that they give back in hopes of just confusing the other model. Right. But eventually, that other model will be able to detect that model A is trying to confuse model B, and then it's

just going to be a-- It's going to be a-- It's going to be a kind of order. So like in these ages,

are these ages saying to each other, watch this? Yeah, right? Yeah, yeah, I'm giving them a full answer.

“Yeah, that's exactly right. No, yeah, I would like to think that's how it works.”

Johnny had a quote. What was the question that you asked John about? Which one? The one that you said it was about, um, can you, can you set two AI entities against each other and ping-pong back and forth? Is that what-- Well, that's exactly what this is. And I think the problem with that is if if anthropic wants their flagship model to be used by somebody like the Department of Defense, they can't have it given bulk answers, because they're afraid it's China.

But because you're in a my question where it is, you were saying that they didn't want the DOD to have this technology in them after they have a choice. Well, as sooner or later, they'd be honest. Yeah, they do very much want to have DOD as a customer. But again, this comes back to Dario's kind of personal affect in this whole thing. He loves this idea where he's the only guy who's saying none of those slow down while he's selling his shit to the

Department of Defense. Well, let me give you a fucking break for a listen. If they said, if they said to have to have Dario, you want to-- You want to do an enterprise contract to the Chinese government. If you can find a way to do that, he'd sell it immediately. He probably would, but you want to of course you would. But I will say this. His safety stick is perfect timing because that that's was burnt every of the enterprises. And it is stick. You've got to read it exactly the right one. Exactly

what? It's stick. Well, you talk about stick. I was convinced years ago. Do you remember-- Don't talk about that night. Noorton, you'd not that. Oh, different. Different night. Noorton, you tell it is. I was convinced that what was the guy standing in the middle of it? He kind of went nuts to me. There's a Peter Norton in his name. Did he go crazy, he lives in a virgin island

“or something now? Is that noor, you tell it? I think he had the sort of-- Gentlemen, they found it”

in. Or Norton, Danny virus. Yeah, you're talking. So he's passed away. Did he? Oh, he didn't.

What?

it became super easy to spread a virus or a worm or whatever you want to call it. That they were

spreading the word nasty. McAfee and McAfee. Yeah, you're not pat back afee. Yeah, they're not pat back afee. But hey, but good for him for paying that tag for the hockey guys the other night. Right, yeah. No, you didn't. I was-- I was-- I was going to be the way pat. In the early days of the Internet, when it became really easy to spread a virus or a worm and infect all these computers, that they were putting the worms out there and then saying, oh, hey, we have the solution

to save your computer from this worm. If you pay us $19.99 a month, we'll protect you, right? It made billions doing it. But you don't think a lot of these early software guys, I mean, there's been rumors about others, right? I'm not going to name them, but they're big names, right?

That came up with the solutions, how to protect you. So 100%.

Well, that's actually-- because that's where the sense. Yeah, I mean, that does where it ends. And what personally actually has the cure? Well, what we're seeing here is now is there-- even though this is bad, Nantropic is being cheated, whether it's illegal or not. What this is resulting in is a higher-order attitude toward cybersecurity that is more appropriate for the AI and agentic age. But then Anthropic also announced this week that they had the patch that allows

it to go out there and look at a platform and detect any cybersecurity gaps.

“I don't know the answer to that. And fix it. Well, and that's what sent the stock market into a whole”

tangent. Is that right? All the stocks this week? One Monday, one Monday, dumped. Yeah.

Yeah. We're related. The comeback was okay. The comeback is great. But the initial pullback was

the cybersecurity firms that were afraid that, I didn't realize that you know why I didn't realize that because I was drinking. You were drinking alcohol, but I didn't know you were doing some other drugs. You were buried sitting down. I mean, Tom's not both drinking Miller. Yeah. You were in the pipeline with the trails. Yeah, it's looking over the clouds. But yeah, I mean, yes, that is the answer. No, but these sorts of problems. Remember,

remember when you used to have you'd open an email and you'd get a virus and you'd have pop-ups with having. Then you'd have pop-up blockers. And then, you know, you would have a digital wallet, so none of your financial information. Right. And these guys were happy to sell you a solution

“for that. Well, but that's how progress happens. You get a bad guy who's trying to figure out how”

to steal from you, right? You have a good guy who says, okay, we need to stop this. He's going to fuck everybody up. But you're helping him. My question is, is the good guy, the bad guy, or the bad guy, the good guy? It's like who could have been, could have been same people. It's like a double deal. Well, listen, this plays into the topic that we've been talking about. We're both getting fucked. I don't know. Hold on. We've been talking about this for a couple of weeks. We've been

dancing around this. We've been talking about, what does it mean to win the AI war? We have to win. We talked about it a couple of times. So what do we do? What does that mean? Well, that's what we're talking about now. And who is determining those parameters? Okay. Well, that's another show, right? This is where I get completely freaked out because again, yep, the people who are in charge of making regulation in our country have no

mean 100% understand what the fuck they have no idea what they're doing. So do you think AOC knows the difference between difference in training? Well, or she can make sure they believe they're Republican. They know less about it. She could make some drinks. That's all we know. So who's influencing it? It's the influence influencing lobbyists that have the dollars

“that are saying, this is what you need to just say and do. Well, here's a question I have as”

a lay person to all these topics. So I get the impression that you guys have an impaired, you're not a lay person. You are an expert still let away wearing drag bunny. How do I know this is going to be? Dancing prodigy. So do we have to we have a more positive opinion of Dario than we do Sam Altman or like what do you guys force the idea? Where do you guys fall on that? Certainly I do. Okay. Because I think Sam's taking the shortcut going through the

through the cheat sheet with the, you know, my opinion is once no better than the other. Yeah, I said it earlier. Probably, but Dario worked for Sam. He wanted to leave and do his own things. So they're equal. The opposite of what Sam's doing. And that's, I disagree. I disagree wholeheartedly. Yeah, this is not how you want. Yeah. Because, uh, could you do that again, Brad? Do that wholeheartedly. Oh, hard. The very sentiment. I'll tell you why we are getting a loose

Hero.

Yeah, there is no second segment after this. So we're going to wrap it up. But I will say this. I think Dario is taking the higher ground stance. He's saying that. That's the card he's playing. Yeah, it's a card. And he's, he's, he's, he's stood by. He's not, it's not a, a temporary card. He's, I want to take the safe model. He's even pushing the government back, which is the easy month. So when the government's giving you contract, let's just take it and go. He's pushing back.

Well, him, I mean, if you rolled out a model that was specifically designed to help with coding like Claude, you could sell it to the government, or you could sell it to 800,000 corporate enterprises, who said, oh my god, this is so important. And the fact that you take the security aspect so seriously, I don't know the first fucking thing about this. And I'm scared to death of it. And if, if we fuck it up, I'm going to get fired because I'm the CEO. Yeah, I'm going to invest

you instead of this kid over here, Altman, who is, is clearly deranged and wants to drive the

“car 120 miles an hour on the road with his eyes closed and lights off. But here's the thing.”

That is book. There's no, but here's the thing. So this draws a parallel to our conversation

on curling last week. It's self moderated. They, they call their own files. They, I would love to. They, they decide when a file has occurred. And they, I think he said, adjudicate those files. That's the, the term is a pair. So this is the same thing because that's a great people. But people, these level of intellectual capacity. I mean, these people who are building, yeah, we're in the rest of the world. You just said, yes, we miss you, Jordan. We need you back. But these people who are

making these decisions, no far more as we've talked repeatedly than the people in our government, who are going to be controlling and, and trying to, you know, let's hate and, and why we have, we have an AIsR. His name's David Zach, Sachs. It's not a cabinet position. It's a ZAR position. So it can go away. That would be going to be a cabinet position has to be. It's absolutely,

and not only do we need an AIsR. The problem is that the current administration has lumped

these in with crypto and AI like the same thing. They're not. They're just, they're there's two

“technologies that nobody in Washington fucking understands. And by the way, you have to do a thing.”

Great technology. And but on that note, that's the problem because a lot of these politicians don't understand it, right? So how do we lobby it in an effective and responsible way if they don't? And, and, and if, and if it's the, if it's the big lobbyists with their money coming in to influence this, it's a good question. Is it being done responsible? So our Dario and, say, I'm often kind of doing the trust me. It'll be okay. Right. Well, they were doing nothing.

If you put your hand up deep, they weren't touching hands at the summit this week. Is that right? That's right. No, shut it. It was the divide and the unity chain that was coming through. And yeah, so these guys, this is coconut Pepsi. This is Ford and Chevy. It is. This is the Lakers and the Salthix. Right. And they might stand there and take a picture. But they're not for its illustrated. But when it came to the hand, they're not friends. That's where we draw a

one. How many burdens you give us? That's right. Okay. Well, hey. That's, I don't know how you feel about. I feel pretty good about it. No way. Yeah. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next week. Cheers. Cheers. Yeah. Right. This has been the better with bourbon podcast with Brad Martin O and Deacon Palmer. New episodes drop weekly. Be sure to subscribe or follow us. The views in a opinion shared on the better with bourbon podcast are our own and those of our guests. Nothing

we discussed should be taken as financial, legal, business or gambling advice. Don't make investment

“business or betting decisions based on our conversations as you should always talk to a qualified”

professional. Always drink responsibly, never drink and drive and only consume alcohol if you are

of legal drinking age. . I'm Sarah Wagner-nicht and the freu me on my visit in Irastat.

Transcript

Sarah comes.

Yeah, I can forth a lot of things over the years and and Ricky does dig into ...

Yeah.

No, that's no.

Neither did John Cooper as a coach.

Yeah.

And, and I, and I, and I know in one of our promos this week, you know, we ha...

You, you know, uh, name a company, um,

You know,

Yeah, I'm pouring silver to blossom.

Overgled that we bring for school and can't be used to it.

I mean, we'd love to see you on the show.

The algorithmic statements.

That where the numbers kind of went up so great, then it raised concerns, right?

Which this still has to be a copyrighted, uh, protection of their, and here's...

Some guy was eating his yogurt.

Genetic they have the ability to learn from the response right after another ...

The same topic, or is it like a totally random different topic?

What?

Hero.

I'll leave Sarah live on March 2 to 18 o'clock in the lead hall of Stuttgart.

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