2. Marjorie Roberts

The weir book contains references to sexual violence and murder, which some listeners might find upsetting.

Rolling through Scotland's largest city, Glasgow, the river Clyde has been vital to the country's economy for centuries. It was an important transport route for the Romans, and key to traders shipping goods between Scotland and Europe in medieval times. In the 18th century, it was dredged and deepened to help Glasgow become a major industrial city,

and the world's largest shipbuilding centre. And this played a key role in showering up Britain's colonial power into the 20th century. It caught the city in half, and while the famous Clyde side shipyard still bored or the river in places, it's a shadow of the bustling hub for work, travel, and people at once was. Most importantly for our purposes, it was to become the place

when Marjorie Roberts' body was found on a cool August morning in 1995. I was in my house, and the camp of the door, and this is, I could open up the door of you, Marjorie Roberts just then went there. And I said, "She did," and they said, "What did you say that for us?" They just got a feeling, "She wasn't here anymore."

Because she was away for a number of days. I just started to think that she's not here anymore, and it was through the film as sure. The river's banks had become quieter by the mid-1990s, not somewhere you'd find yourself at night without a deliberate purpose.

“So why was Marjorie a 34-year-old former machinist there at the night of her death?”

And more importantly, how did a body end up being pulled from the water just a few days later? I said, "I've got a mystery. The police need to be quite satisfied, and that was answered into about a family do believe that was murdered in your quite the element of our life." We also believe that Marjorie may have come across something we're trying to find.

Had she come across Dibba Weirbuk, she certainly told her sister about it. "It's take the registrations, and then they'd know something, maybe it's happened to them if I've no combat and reported to the police." These are the questions we'll try to answer for you in episode 2. I'm Collette McGonagall.

I'm Callum McGwayd. And this is Boewerbuk. Marjorie grew up in a close family as one of three siblings. Her sister Elizabeth has fought for answers for years, but after some difficult experiences with both the police and media,

she hasn't spoken publicly for almost a decade. And it isn't a chance meeting that brings us to Elizabeth, as it did dolly and Shirley,

a quirk of fate that happens to delivers to the right door at almost the first knock.

This relationship takes months of investigating and building trust. To try to repair the damage done by years of dashed hopes and broken promises. "Your destination is on the right." "Here we are, trying to find people who help us." "No, all full to the clouds, flats."

"Did we pass the entrance to Bastie?" "Or a wonderph is a bit further down."

“"But I don't. I think there's plenty of roads."”

"Yeah." "I wonder if there were flats here before." What you hear there is Collette and I driving around Cardonal, trying to find someone with links to Marjorie in the area where she grew up. But we don't have much luck.

It's one of the worst parts of a journalist job knocking on doors

as a last resort to find out crucial information.

Trying to cause the least disturbance possible when intruding on someone in the sanctity of their own home. "It's hard for me." "I don't know that you, but I wouldn't answer my door if it's something that I don't know." "Would you know?"

"Well, depends on the situation." "It's a toffee because." "We know, like, with me being a reporter, I rely on other people's good relevance, something to do, sometimes, especially when something's happened."

“"I think it's worth another few donuts."”

"I try one across the road, and then it's just you." "So no luck, then." Despite talking to a few neighbors who knew Marjorie's family long before their home had been flattened to make way for a new built estate, you could feel the reluctance to give too much away.

"It was obvious people didn't want to say anything that would open up old wounds, especially when telling their stories hasn't helped much up until this point."

through a few letter boxes,

“Colette suddenly got a call out of the blue."”

"It took me completely by surprise, one afternoon I'd just finished work when my phone rang, a number I didn't recognise, and I couldn't believe it when I realised

it was the person that I most wanted to speak to. Marjorie's sister Elizabeth. I should say now, Elizabeth's family, haven't had the best experience with police or media, and they didn't really want to talk to us.

So I was quite taken aback when I did hear her voice. Softly spoken, hesitant, but with a polite determination to find out exactly who I was,

and why I was asking questions about her sister's death so many years later. As we speak, I can understand why. I can feel her pain as she talks about Marjorie, or match as she calls her.

This isn't a story or an unresolved case to her. This is her life. The trauma of her sister's tragic death only compounded by the ache

“of not being believed of still having no answers so many years later.”

And this is something her crime reporter from episode one, Norman Sylvester, can share the light on after covering Marjorie's death back in 1995. So the family marked her role, but it's probably hard for them

and for anyone else, because in the other cases there's been a bunch of investigation that's been acknowledged. In most cases there's either been a conviction or an analyst, but as in the Marjorie Roberts case,

there's so much uncertainty, and I don't think it'll be resolved now. I know it was investigated at the time, but there's maybe a sense of the family's well that it's a kind of forgotten muddle.

It's a forgotten case, that with all the publicity surrounding other deaths, Diane Mackinale, Kern McGregor,armor governor, and others that followed it to be kind of forgotten about. You can understand that because you're not getting any closure

and you know the classic case, there's more questions and answer to that. And that must be very difficult for them. We'd add a leisure and retail park on the banks of the river Clyde.

It's open, exposed even on a chilly winter's day, with a smattering of fast food outlets, a casino and a bowling alley. A location suggested by Elizabeth

when we finally decide to meet after months of messages

and calls after a long chat over a coffee and some biscuits. Elizabeth seems a little more at ease with us. She's understandably guarded after some very difficult experiences with the media and police in the past. So when she agrees to an interview and suggests going for a walk,

we quickly bundle up and head out into the cold air. So microphone, bag, let's do that. Okay, yeah. If you're good enough, thank you.

“I think I feel a bit more apprehensive this time,”

because I know what Elizabeth has been through and it's months of conversations on the phone and trying to set up meetings and stuff. I can understand this. I think this would be difficult for that time.

Aha. And we've been building up to this for a long time. Yeah. You've spoken to her more than I have. I don't really know what to expect from her.

Yeah. And she clearly struggles to build up trust because it's taking her a while to agree to meet us. Yeah. So that trust doesn't come easily.

Yeah. So we're just walking up here through this car park. Okay. There she is. Okay.

And it takes us a while to get into rhythm, walking in circles around the car park. There's a noise of the cars going across the underpass above us and we're dodging the old dog walker or groups of students going to the bowling alley

on a Wednesday afternoon. Why don't we take a step by step? We'll start with a track to do and there is a seat. Anything that we would put out, we'll wait over on the track. Right.

And you just can cut it, but so it and just put together, but you think, yeah. Yeah. I would definitely cut it down and, you know, not include anything that you don't want to do.

Oh yeah. That kind of thing that we've done, but we'll leave you as colleagues, it's let you know what we're going to bring it. Yeah.

But we do get going. And after a couple of minutes of cautious small talk, a little bit starts to tell us about what Marjorie was like as a sister, mother, and daughter. Before her body was found in the cold grey river,

we now walk along. Yeah. Shoot. She was a lovely person. She's just, she's just, she's just a lovely finish. Baby's sitting there actually to watch a lot of neighbors,

catching at night.

She always likes to babysit.

Yeah. When we were younger, maybe about 15-15 minutes. She always worked at kids at night. And then she said, the road now.

She loved her kids. She loved sewing now.

“She always wanted to be our machinist now.”

She done that for 10 years.

As Elizabeth says, Marjorie really enjoyed her job as a machinist. And it was also a chance to make the most of her role as the daughter-in-big sister. She loved in that minute. She looked in that and then she left me in that.

So she got you in the kitchen. And the work in that. That was not there as long as her right enough. I did my hair black, and then you let it back back to work. She's like, "Come back, man."

Because I didn't like the color. If you had jet black now, she had fond memories of working together. Yeah. What was that light? It was good to say, to read a lot of friends.

And they worked in that much of friends outside. About one's she had for years now. Yeah.

So she's quite a sociable person then.

And very, can a family and children. She's got a lot of family, didn't they? We're children. It's just kept us in friends. All the same night.

She had them for years. And then she met a man and that and looking at the three kids. But Marjorie wouldn't go on to leave her job under such lighthearted circumstances as a dodgy hairdo. She'd been made redundant when the factory closed. With bells to pay and three young children to support,

Elizabeth tells us it was this that would send her sister Marjorie down a dark and destructive path. She took the drink that went redundant, it was closing down. So my mum is still getting to play it. Now we have name in it on it. And she gave up our work.

We don't give up our work. So she got redundant saying it to give up our work. So it was closing down.

“What changed in her life after the factory closed down?”

It's just made up. It's like some day it came about a house now. And the neighbors dabble in the dogs in that room. And then she started taking her home. Was it stiny for a big, big habit, but suppose it was big enough to...

What once someone now harbored to have it, but as you take them, can get people to sell cohorts. And they can go out cohorts at the weekend. No touch or join the week. So she done that for a while.

'Cause her and her man wanted to do them work now. But then that's the things we've done. I don't know when she gets that it's getting in. It's stuff like that. Then couple of girls come up with her house now.

She just says she's got been watched the motors now. She was doing that for a while. And then obviously done what she done now. And lost her life now. Luddled.

It was from this moment that Marjorie's life would begin to really change without the steady routine that had been provided by her job for so long. New faces at her flat. Harder drugs being taken.

And in a more regular basis. All of this developing slowly. In turn, offer that must have seemed quite tempting. With three small mouths to feed. And a turbulent relationship with her children's father.

So what you're hearing there is that Marjorie was developing a more expensive habit to feed. And that she'd been offered the chance to go out with some of her friends who were in prostitution. Not to go with clients.

But to earn money by keeping a watchful high. They take the registrations. And then they'd know something. Maybe it's happening to them. If I've no combined reports, it's the police.

So Marjorie was writing down the details of clients and their cars as a form of protection. It's the same idea as the so-called "beware" book. We mentioned an episode one where the girls would keep a record of warnings to each other to avoid the most dangerous clients.

But where are all these notes? Do they still exist and what names are in them?

“Do any of them have links to the police or even the legal system?”

These are all questions. We'll come back to in a later episode. But for now, back to Marjorie, who's falling deeper and deeper into a world that would take her to the Clyde site on that fateful night of her death in 1995.

I've never seen her for a week.

I thought we thought she went to some gig something that's known now. We'd seen the park sort of a thing. I don't know if it was called. We'd seen the park.

We thought she'd went to that. Now that's how the only worry too much. But then the days went on. So thanks for listening for a bit for days now. Before some did.

I've seen her in the water. Take us back if you don't mind to your last time that you did see her. What was it like? No, I never really.

Just sort of at the shops I've seen in her. That was like a kind of a reminder. Exactly if it was a week or so. But we did see each other a lot. She used to come up to my house.

“So, as Elizabeth says there, she was still in touch with her sister.”

But the shared routine of fact, teamwork was gone. The lace were growing further and further apart.

While the family first thought margarity may have been at a popular Scottish music festival.

Key in the park. Alarm bells soon started to ring. But just a few days later, came the moment. Elizabeth had already begun to trade. I was in my house and they came to the door.

And they says, "Well, could you open up the door with your magic robot sister?" And I said, "She did." And they said, "What did you say that for us?" They just got a feeling. She wasn't here anymore.

Because she was away for a number of days. I just started thinking that she's not here anymore. And it was sure the feeling was sure. This awful moment also sparked a flurry of activity in Margarity's family. Elizabeth desperately retracing her sister steps on the night of her death.

Showing her photo to anyone they thought might have information.

She'd end up at the drag. An area of Glasgow City Centre where other women involved in prostitution would wait to be picked up by clients. It was a nice experience.

“They would remember nicely or stuck together.”

And it wasn't a fault with getting involved with drugs. It's just experimenting in your younger days. You can get caught up with stuff. Alcohol or drugs are other stuff gambling. But I really felt sorry for them. There's the life that ended up getting to this point.

In our desperation for answers, Elizabeth also brought her brother into the search. They took it upon themselves to investigate rather than wait for the police to work out what had actually happened. And this was a decision that would see them end up in risky situations at times. They used to go up there and lock my brother and wait till we go out and talk to her again. He needs to go back. She's all over and wait.

But I would see them in the underground ground. I would say that's that guy. That under the bridge, they used to go into the records. They're security guards, they don't need to think they get the police. They're set to arrest the disease and they're stealing.

So bring him in and be brought him in now. But they did take the thing that was happening. I might say they're waiting for the police to talk to him.

I'm going to try and get the flight, but they're never done that now.

Just because he was our first girl. She's now yours. So it was in the home. We've done a power arrest in another guy. But he'd be battered out of a woman now and brought him in now. He had them screaming.

I get away if I get away from her, I don't want her to know. But it's a lot of them obviously went violent now. They wouldn't, they wouldn't know what they'd be now. But then a stock is actually annoying me a lot now. But it was getting to my head now, getting up there and that.

I says, I need to stop now what I'm doing. Just let the police stay in the deal with it. As Elizabeth says, these late night investigations into her sister's death were taking a heavy toll on her mentally. So she decided to take the understandable decision

to leave it to the professionals. From her experience, there were no shortage of violent men in the city from shop lifters with scratched up faces to a worried husband who admitted to beating up another woman involved in prostitution. But there's one man in particular, Elizabeth,

is most convinced to play the role in Marjorie's death.

“You feel you're quite confident in what happened and who killed Marjorie?”

I'm confident it was. A hundred percent. Do you believe he was actually there? And he admitted to being there? Yeah, it was frequently up the town.

And it was, what I said, there was wife Marjorie on the counten place. And she took drugs and just fell into the water. What was lies? They were smoking. They said they were smoking there for about half an hour.

The police searched the following area. There were no stops to cigarette. It could take DNA off. So it might see if it would probably thought you'd fly, say it was there, do you know what I mean?

So as if there weren't a lot you had to go back. It was caught on camera, what walking along with Marjorie. The police done the steps. That's what they went. The guard balls to get drugs.

And the police walked and done the steps. And there was no right. It didn't match up. We've just got this man's name in that clip. As these are very serious allegations she's making.

Elizabeth suggests this man was with Marjorie on the night she died. Actually, at the Clyde side, with her when she fell in.

They say they reached the try and get up. They say they put his feet on her butt. It was that that was why he's in August when Martiniano. So did he see how long he was sitting with her? I can't imagine. I can't imagine for sure.

And they never found her back.

I was going to find the bag in the water. They went there so far. And I'd see if it was the other day. I was going there. They went in the boat.

Never found that. What we do know for sure is that Marjorie was spotted on CCTV with a man in the Brumalore area, which runs parallel to the river on the last day she was seen alive. The day before her body was found floating near Jamaica Bridge. And it's worth mentioning again that no one, even the man Elizabeth, is talking about,

was ever treated as a suspect in this case. Because Marjorie's death was never treated as a crime by police. There's something else too. There are unconfirmed reports suggesting the same man may have tried to push another woman involved in prostitution into the same river.

And this was all just weeks after being spoken to by police about Marjorie's death.

“I think he was pulled and for trying to put some deal into the water.”

And that's when they got them. And then they went back in the footage because of her cameras. No, they were there. They were the bank. And then they see much water. We've got that guy.

Walkman and then he put his hand up. And sort of her stops her at the wall now. And then there were lots of discrepancies. And they said they weren't walking on that to get drugs with her. And the police done that walk to the garble state to where they were meant to be in it.

They didn't fit in the says, which obviously the way she took the drugs. When they done the post-mort and they would have been able to... They didn't know when that was in the train. And at the very least then, he's admitting to being there at the time. She went into the water turn and as I say at the very least,

admitting to not trying to help her or contact the police or get anybody to help. Yeah, it's not going to ever get anybody to help. Now, the only reason they get to pull in because some says trying to put another girl into the water. Do you know what I mean? I'd say he should have been charged. And even though Elizabeth claims this man was with Marjorie on the night of her death,

when she ended up in the river, he was interviewed by police and then released free of charge. Elizabeth just can't understand how he was ruled out of their inquiries. And officers just can't say for sure how Marjorie ended up in the water. Did she fall or was she pushed?

Although Elizabeth is certain her sister would never have entered the river by choice.

“I think that they didn't investigate when they defended because of her a lot of people getting...”

Marjorie turned about that time and she's no one. I think they should actually know that they did start with the new. They didn't know at the beginning that when they opened up the modern fire, because the one they go on there was saying that she fell in the water. It was so sad that in assays my sister couldn't swim,

she would never, she'd never have to think that to a life that we know. Because she was terrified of the water and in a police room. That police man says we're going to open up the modern fire. And that's Saturdays for them. How do you remember her being scared of water?

Was that something that maybe when she was a child or just a child? Usually what this woman and she went there to put her head under the water and she was too frightened. Try to learn that she swam but she couldn't swim. She maybe just cried a little bit but she couldn't stay up long. And something else that Elizabeth said there,

there had been a number of similar murders by the time of Marjorie's death. After Diane McEnelly's murder in 1991, which we told you about in episode 1, Marjorie's death was now the fourth of a prostitute in Glasgow.

The second in 1995 alone.

And by this time, panic had begun to sweep across the city. It was just awful. It was a horrible time. In the last days, we were really frightened. They had drunk habits to deal with.

But they were frightened, getting out in the bus.

“That's Anne. You might remember her from episode 1 on Diane's murder.”

She ran a Christian charity called Salt and Light, which operated from a distinctive double-decker bus right in the middle of Glasgow City Center.

They would come, yes, and they'd get some e. They would get change-a-close if they needed it.

“And the good thing about the bus, the last days, would come on the bus, but they'd go off.”

They'd go back to the park, they'd be staying in the bus. So, for at least three or four hours, we had all these last days. They'd run in danger anymore because they were sitting on the bus. They had people that you knew for Georgia. And the last days would nearly anything happened to us.

And the guys that came in the bus, some of them were putting the last days at the park.

In fact, Elizabeth remembers Marjorie actually being on the bus. We have spoken to a woman who used to run the Salt and Light bus.

“Her name's Anne McHelvin, and she is from a Christian background.”

And back 20, 30 years ago, she ran that bus for women working in the streets. And it was a place of 54 of them where they could go and go on the bus and have something to do with it. Did Marjorie ever mention that service?

Yes, she said she went on that bus and she was telling the lady that a man was following her.

She's a keeps on pesting me and following her, but now I'm scared of him. And I've seen that, I was talking to her because I was up to a Christian, and got gone everywhere. Now, I'm asking that we managed his boat in that, and I was talking to her. Christian women, I wonder if it's the same way that she was walking like that. And I said to Marjorie, there's a woman there, because we told her about Marjorie.

And she went all glad that I should have done something, and she's felt terrible now, because she lost her life now. After speaking to Anne, that does strike us as something she would see. She cared so deeply about the girls and women who took refuge in the bus, talking, consoling, and even laughing together. The worries and dangers of their lives has spended for the briefest of moments. But of course, what happened to Marjorie or any of these women was in Tanz fault.

The service she devoted a large part of her life to was a small glimmer of hope, or light as the name suggests, operating with minimal support. Sometimes we just spoke about the rains, so it didn't need to look at Anne anything deep, deep. But we could put them on the other agencies for a help them to get the cones on it. They needed, or if they needed to get away for the street, we could send them if people had talked to them and get them out yet. But when you're in drug addiction, you're not interested in getting out yet, you're interested in the next step.

You're no more than about anything other than that.

“Was that the reality for many of these women they just didn't understand the danger that they were in in this area to the such thing?”

I definitely, yeah, I mean, do we could tell you hundreds of horrific things for the years? Some of you might think about it, is that bad? But what's happening now? Who's out there now with the asses? Who's looking after them? By now, Glasgow had witnessed the deaths or according to Marjade's family murders of four women involved in prostitution in as many years.

We wish we were able to go into the full details of every one of these women's lives. It's just been so difficult to find people willing to speak about these cases. A lot of those involved are worn down by carrying such tragic loss for so many years. In between the devastating deaths of Diane Machinale in 1991, who we told you about in episode 1 and Marjade in 1995, there had been two other murders. Karen McGregor's body was found in the car park of the SEC, a well-known and public event venue in Glasgow in April 1993.

A man did stand trial for her murder, but a not-proven verdict was returned at the High Court in Glasgow. Two years later, Leone McGovern's body was found near the city's red light district, she'd been stabbed and strangled. Again, a man stood trial for her murder, this time being found not guilty by a jury. And Margot laughed for two. She was strangled and dumped in a city centre lane back in 1998.

All three of these women also in their 20s, all three is lost, it's still keenly felt by their loved ones.

We really hope that someone listening might want to share their stories of these women, so we can include them too, or shed any new light on the murders we are able to talk you through.

“And what of those officially in charge of bringing justice? What was the police's role in all of this? Why are so many of these cases still unsolved?”

Devi Bar is a former CID officer who worked in major crimes in the 2000s. He was heavily involved in chemical-wills murdered inquiry, playing a key role in bringing your killer to justice. So what was it like to work in a time when killings terrified the city when there were even fears a serial killer was stalking Glasgow's red light district?

You have so much empathy now for these girls that we were speaking to in a daily basis. Who at the time had then killed us about? I wouldn't cross my mind. I wouldn't.

I'm just been honest about that, to me there were prostitutes, they were drug users, and they were the worst of their own society. But as I say, when you look back now, it's tragic because most of these girls, okay, most of them probably were heroin addicts, drug addicts, but how did they get to that stage? And nobody cared, you know, and again, that's shameful. At the time when you were interviewing these prostitutes, you couldn't kill less about them.

“Why was that? And what led to your opinions changing?”

When I said, you know, it's penucied out by, it's quite cold. When I say I couldn't kill less, it was my job. The prostitutes were, they were in a whole, they were criminals, they would steal, they would rob punters, you know.

But when I say I couldn't kill less, that's never about unfair.

But, you know, it wasn't, they weren't the type of people that seem like you're on the police or unless you use prostitutes. You don't know what they're like, you know. And the reason you're a penian change is, I think, you just go older and you cannot realize, you know, that, you know, I've got doors, you know. Now it's just tragic, you know, the desert beta, the desert of the old beta, actually. I feel you were getting away, but emotional areas you were talking about, and it's at that time, perhaps you're compartmentalizing, you're putting it away in your head.

“But, you know, thinking of these young vulnerable girls now, is that something that you do revisit sometimes?”

And that, I can pretty good to just forget about it, to be honest with you. I just, because again, it's a pretty much speaking outlet, you know, it's like every walk a life, even a police, they only have to do things better from the mistakes that are made. It mistakes it shouldn't have been made. That's actually quite difficult to listen to, and it's all deal with whether it's included or not for a couple of reasons. Firstly, it's really unfair on all the women we talk about in these episodes to judge them,

wrongly on their circumstances, to reduce them to what they did to earn a living, rather than who they were as people. And it probably isn't that fair on David either. While, like, couldn't disagree more with some of what he's saying here, he is being very honest about attitudes at the time. And honestly, we feel we've struggled to find it times, being in the room with him at the time too, you could see how he felt when it was speaking. Almost like a realization of how tough these women's lives were.

You can hear a bubble of emotion reaching the surface too, from an officer who's worked on some very tough cases. Once that he obviously cares about, as we'll hear again, when we get on to the Emma Coldwell murder trial. And this is an important discussion. One will come back to in a later episode. What were the attitudes of police and media at a time? And did this impact on how these women's murders were investigated?

Right now, it's making me think more and more about who Marjorie was as a person. Someone born, like all of us, with hopes and dreams of her own. Someone whose loss is still keenly felt by her loved ones.

But she just hit her living out the door. When Marjorie was killed, she could stay bring up. And she'd done it at the best of her ability. She's also been hard for you. Yeah.

She's in your mom's priming those children up when you feel she should have been your sister. My sister should have been there. And I know it was, like, I couldn't really talk about it much now. It's my mom's suggestion and it adapts to space and then he went and talk about things now.

“But I think I'd love her to put on the TV and it's come up.”

But the same as Emma now, they've got a breakthrough.

Do you know what I mean? I would only think it will bring my sister back. But it'll get put someday away for the wrong of them. It's a human being. As Elizabeth says, the family have really struggled to speak about what happened to Marjorie. She also talks about wishing there would be some progress in her case

that one day her mom would finally see justice, just like in the Emma Coldwell case. Elizabeth also says this silence has put a real strain on her loved ones. It's difficult. People sort of aren't, it would talk to other people in those strangers where I'm talking to a family

and something happens there. They can just, but they all know they don't want to talk about it now.

How have you broached this subject with your children and her children over the years?

It was hard to because my mother's got care even she was free. And she didn't even remember her mom. She just remembered finding newspaper clippings underneath the mattress because my mom just wanted to go into school and then he wanted to discuss that. If she needed to, which a lot of mothers would do, it's just the normal thing to do.

In case it affects her leg and then the school and things so they just she just kept it.

“And what has the right decision the right way to navigate such a sad and crushing tragedy?”

It probably doesn't exist. What would you do in a family so full of pain unable even to talk about their loss? I think it makes a Elizabeth's bravery even more striking that she's still willing to talk to us after everything she's been through. My head just went in the rest, it was going on for years. I don't know of what it would be like a clinical breakdown.

I think I did it because it was so much. Every time somebody was murdered, I'd be afraid. Now crying and trying to help in some way. I've been doing things with post-traumatic stress disorder with a doctor, but I can deal with myself now. I don't take any medication, I just don't want it, I've tried it and I wouldn't be able to work.

I'm a machinist, a son machinist, I wouldn't be able to do my job now. So I just deal with relaxation, things like that and going to swimming and just stuff like that. I take my mind off stuff now. It's only now I think we realize just how strong Elizabeth is after everything she's been through. What our whole family's been through.

And despite everything that's happened with the police, the cruel headlines, the countless disappointments, she still plows on in a search for answers. I'll try as much as I can, now she's much help as I can to get a better closure. If I don't get closure, I know I've tried. I also used came to help, blah blah blah blah, and I said, "No, I'm not going to do this."

Then I can't sleep, I need to do this. Even if I don't get closure, I know I've tried. If something comes out, even if it's known one in my family, it died. If it's getting help for some deals, I'll give them peace of mind what we've all tried. To bring these monsters to justice, so I've started out there.

“I mean, that's what I wanted, and then I'm going to close off after that.”

And just got on my my life, as I've been doing. Was that a difficult decision knowing whether or not you wanted to speak to? Was it a part of you that felt like you would rather not to not relive what happened? Yeah, it was actually trusted. I didn't want years ago that used to put horrible things in the paper,

but some did died now, especially these kind of women now. But now that's all came and ended. It's a use of gave me a lot of trust, and that's how I'm speaking out.

And I want to take the help because you don't always get it, you know what I mean?

It's a cold case, it's been years and years, but as I say, if we can get somewhere with it now, it used to have never gave me any promises, and I don't want promises, collating and killing. But I'm just happy what I've came and met yesterday. And you get the feeling it's also about Elizabeth's focus. On the life margin is shoot of head.

The one full of happy times and milestones with her family.

What are your happiest memories with your sister, whether it's growing up for,

“you know, is there any kind of stories that stick out to you of of happy times with her?”

Just when we're all the dead kids now go into the park, and that we used to go into a lot of parks, and now take the kids to us, so pick next and things like that. Did she ever talk to you about what her hopes for the future were?

She used to sell machine, and she used to make cottons up for people,

and she still had the machine, years after she left her work now. If the work now, if...

“I should maybe want to get her in the business now, do repairs now, repair and cozinate.”

She doesn't know we're back in that for the house, but no too much, now we're having the kids in it.

Every time her buffs it comes up now, it's obviously a sad occasion now.

And she's no here, she's no here, she's here, grandkids now. She's got three grandkids, that's just terrible, which is horrible, but she's no here now. As you heard Elizabeth say earlier, we've been very careful not to make promises of justice or even answers, but we're not stopping here either.

“We want to bring Marjorie Roberts' case and Diane Macanales, which you heard in the first episode to the police,”

to come to them with the information we have and ask for explanations, the very least these families deserve, but we've got one more case to take you through before we get to that. One more family still living in the same agony. It's been hell, I'm not even looking myself at people bought me diamond. I'm really hurt, I've lost my daughter, in these circumstances, and I just wish to go with

it, that binder was put a bit of a little long time. That's Alice, the mother of Jacqueline Gallagher, another young woman murdered in Glasgow. Another case which still holds more questions than answers. So that's next time on BeWearBook, the story of a string of women brutally murdered in Glasgow. Most of his cases are still unsolved by police decades later.

If you've been affected by any of the issues raised in this podcast and need mental health support, I want to talk about your feelings, visit the hub of hope to find services in your area. If you think you might have information about any of the people we mentioned, you can get in touch with us at [email protected]. BeWearBook was written, created and presented by Collette McGonagall, presented and produced by Calamacuit.

The executive producer is Henry Eta Harnessin. So design is by James Stodd and Michelle Holman. BeWearBook is a real original podcast by BeWearMedia.