Time Will Tell

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This is Persian Lake. Just over these trees, over here, is where the up-dye president says.

“In June 2010, Chief Deputy Dave Rodriguez”

took me out on patrol in an Okanagan County Sheriff's Fastboat. On a lake, just a few miles from Linda Updye's home outside Winthrop, Washington. Rodriguez had helped Linda Updye

to train a new attack dog. And later, was one of the deputies who arrested Michael Oaks. Months had passed since Mark Stover was murdered, and still, his body had not been found.

It's Gadget County Sheriff's Office asked us to check any problem locations where body may be dumped in water. And for so close to her home, this was on the list of check. Michael Oaks had spent time near these waters,

and Rodriguez wanted to check if he might have sunk Mark's body here. So how does this work? Well, I don't know if you can see, but the lake is too big for two or three or four or even six divers that adequately serves.

“That's why they turned to sonar to scour the lake bed.”

And we grid search across the lake, and then when we find something to interest on the sonar screen, then we put divers down on it. And that diver will be you. Yes, today, and it's me.

Then deputy Rodriguez slowed the boat down toward a spot where he had detected some kind of an image. He put on the diver suit. Are you ready? Ready.

And chumped into the water. He swam below the boat, but no luck. It's been quite a while since Mr. Stover has been missing, so it makes it more difficult. Decomposition. Correct.

The search for Mark Stover had stretched across the state of Washington. The one person who could end that search decided to be coy. Are you willing to tell authorities where you placed Mark Stover's body? Certainly, all that I know about the whereabouts of Mark Stover,

I will be more than happy to share with authorities in the course of our trial. This is going to be a dramatic week. It has been a dramatic year. I'm Peter Vance Satt. From 48 hours, it's trained to kill the dog trainer,

the aeros and the bodyguard. Episode 6. Time will tell. Michael Oaks has been accused of a murder of Mark Stover. What do you say? Prove it.

That's John Henry Brown. He was Michael Oaks lead defense attorney. We spoke in 2010. So my defense is Prove it.

First act to prove there's a murder.

Right? Brown is a brilliant showman known for making arguments in court that could fit into the final scene of a prime time legal drama. We've got blood. We've got shell casings.

We've got a dog that was shot. Correct. But we don't have a body. Correct. And what does that add up to for you?

A case of circumstantial evidence. When it comes to representing accused killers, Brown has been around the block. He titled his memoir The Devil's Defender to highlight a career spent arguing on behalf of defendants he considered evil.

Ted Bundy, who said he had murdered 30 people.

Bundy wants to tell me that he knew he was evil. The most sociopaths don't say that. I don't see any of that in Michael at all. Brown argued instead that Mark Stover represented the evil in this case. Not as client.

“I think somebody asked Michael recently whether he thought Michael thought Mark Stover was evil.”

And Michael said no, not all parts of him. Which I thought was a very gracious thing for Michael to say under the circumstances. But I think there were parts of Mark Stover that were very evil. When you start treating people as objects and which is what Stover did, particularly with Linda, then I think that crosses over.

In court, they plan to make the case that Michael shot Mark in self-defense. The trial started in September 2010, less than a year after Mark Stover was killed. I did have an interesting cast of characters.

Everybody appeared at first blush to be very, very good citizens.

That's Judge Mike Rickard. The case became very sensationalized, much to my chagrin.

“That makes things more difficult for us as we're trying to ensure that both sides get a fair shake and that justice is actually done.”

Judge Rickard said this turned out to be one of the stranger cases he had presided over. The trial actually lasted four weeks. The investigation lasted for the year prior to that. And the twists and the turns in the plot and the details of this case just kept changing. Witnesses included detectives, some of Mark's former employees and Michael's second wife, Jennifer Thompson,

who told jurors that Michael said, "If police saw what was in the back of my car, I'd go to prison for life."

But it was Michael himself who played the leading role in this trial when he took the stand.

Mr. Brown, you got a new witness for this. Yes, sir. Joe, come on up. His defense attorney, John Henry Brown, wanted Michael to explain why he had to defend himself. He came around the corner with a gun in one hand.

And he pointed the gun at me and the look on his face. He didn't say anything. Okay. How close is it to him? I'm inside the washroom. He's right at the doorway. And he's just inside the hallway.

Three feet, maybe? Okay. What happens then? I can't remember if he, I lunged and he shot. We tangled and I got shot. Remember Detective Dan Loverra said it was highly improbable that Michael could shoot Mark in self-defense.

Immediately after being shot himself, even if he was wearing a bullet proof vest. So Brown asked Michael to reenact the shooting to show that it was possible. Would you like taking off your coat?

“And that's that work, so why don't you put this on the way?”

You had it on, right? Brown asked Michael to put on a Kevlar vest like the one he wore on October 28th, 2009. Brown's co-counsel, Corbin Vallez stood in as Mark Stover. Mr. Vallez is larger than Mr. Stover's version of. He's taller?

Vallez held up his left hand and stuck out his pointer finger to act like he was aiming a gun at Michael. So Mr. Vallez is holding a gun, he's fired at you. What do you do? Michael lunched at Vallez grabbed his left arm and tackled him to the ground.

Oh, I don't think we're expecting that. The aggressive move startled the courtroom into a big laugh. Are you all right? I'm fine. My finger wasn't loaded.

Michael took off the vest and then walked back to the witness stand. That was amazingly fast, Mr. Oaks. Is that the way you did that?

Can I take this off? Yes, please take it off.

“I asked prosecutor Rich Weirick, why a bullet hole in Michael Oaks's vest wasn't convincing to authorities.”

He explained the location of the bullet was suspicious. It appeared to have gone in very close to exactly straight exactly in the middle of the bullet proof vest. And which suggests what to you. Well, what it suggested to us is that it was done either before after the event as somewhat of an alibi. Back on the stand, Michael eventually came to the dramatic moment everyone was waiting for.

He was finally going to disclose where he put Mark's body.

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You were somehow getting Mr. Stober's body into the station wagon.

That's what I did then. I picked him up, which was very difficult. I carried him out to the back of the station wagon and laid him there. And I had that kitchen towel that I had grabbed. I threw that in with him.

Oh, before I put him up and the gun fell down and the floor I just put it in his desk pocket. Michael then testified he later drove to that green chal parking lot nearby where he struggled to transfer Mark's body. I tried to move him to my car, but it was too heavy. And so I used the plastic that was in the back of the rig.

Yes, in the back of the station wagon and stood underneath them and was able to then slide him across to my car.

After meeting with his ex wife Jennifer Thompson in Everett, Washington, he drove back to Anna Cortis to move Mark's now empty station wagon. You know, it was still just sitting there and I was blown away. I thought for sure it would have been like some big crime scene investigation. Michael said he then drove the station wagon about two miles to the nearby Swinomish casino parking lot. Michael then walked back to his own car where Mark's body was covered up in the back.

You leave it there. Yep. Michael told the courtroom he then decided to dispose of the body because he didn't think investigators would believe his story. I'm walking away from Mr. Stover's car.

I see some kind of a boat in the water just near there. Michael said he then drove down to a dock at the far end of that casino's vast parking lot. And I got my car as close to that as possible and muscled him out and dropped him in the water. According to Michael, he then dropped Mark's body into the Swinomish channel, which flows into the Padilla Bay near Anna Cortis. Was the gun with him?

His gun? His gun was in his pocket still his vest. After you did that, what did you do? I threw some other stuff like the plastic in the water and I smell blood. I'm pretty sensitive to the smell of blood, I smell blood.

And I couldn't see it was dark. And so I started throwing things out of the car into the water that were in the back. I had some stuff of the plastic in a piece of carpet from his car. And then some other items that were there. He then headed to Linda's home in Winthrop.

I arrived there, I don't remember now, it was dark. I had to stop to throw up a couple of times, I don't know, I'm not sure. We see your tape when you get to Linda's. So that would be accurate, right? Yes.

“When you got to Linda's, did you tell anything about what had happened?”

I just said I had a really bad day. What time was that? It was late, it was late, I think I remember now.

But when the prosecution cross-examined Michael, they zeroed in on some inconsistencies in his story.

Here's Scatchett County Prosecutor Rich Wyrick. You indicated that you, when you wrote to some park range, body was too heavy to move from car to car. So you had to slide it, is that right? Well, on two other occasions, you were able to just pick the body up and walk it down water.

“And I think you described it dilapidated dock and tossed it in the water.”

Yes. And on another occasion, you were able to just pick it up and toss it into the back of Mr. Stover's car. Pick up and toss, I think, would be your words, but I was able to pick him up. Well, I was too heavy at the sum of park range.

Because it's a station where I couldn't stand up and have to lean over to lift something and I can't do that.

Detective searched the waters behind the casino with a submersible camera and found nothing. While court was in recess, I asked Michael if he was telling the truth. Police have searched that area, they have not found a gun, they have found no skeletal remains. Is that really where you dropped the body? Absolutely.

Yes. No matter where he may have disposed the body, I pressed him more.

“What do you say to those who suspect that you disposed of the body because you wanted to dispose of the evidence?”

But if people could see Mark Stover's body, maybe there's a bullet hole in the back of the head. Maybe they would have seen that he was shot in the back, not in the front. Maybe you were trying to cover up a murder. So I understand that feeling, I really do, and I wish I hope that the body is recovered. And because it will exactly corroborate my story, 100%.

After he was cross-examined, Michael watched the woman he loved, the Eris. The person at the center of Mark Stover's rage, Linda Updike, raised her hand. Just please state your name for the record and spell your last name. Linda Updike spelled OP, "Dies and David, why C.K.E." Did you choose to violate your attorney's advice and speak to the prosecutor and testify in this trial?

Yes, I did. Why did you change your mind? Because I felt this is an important part of the story that I could tell about a dangerous stocking situation. And if there's any information that I could offer up, I wanted to do so. But Linda wasn't there just to defend Michael.

She told me she also wanted to defend herself and her father. It's heartwrenching enough to be dealing with what us as a family we're dealing with with Michael. Let alone seeing my family attacked. It's just another level of, I feel victimization and randomly going after anybody with no reason for anything. And to do a smear campaign.

Here's Skagit County Prosecutor, Rosemary Kahola Kula, questioning Linda. You continue to have romantic feelings, intimate feelings toward Mr. Oaks and vice versa.

“And in fact, I think that you said that in our interview last week is that you loved him, correct?”

I don't, we're not recall if I said that or not, but I do. Yes. When Mr. Oaks was arrested, you did what you could to find him a lawyer, correct? Yes. She asked about what helped Linda provided Michael after his arrest.

And you made some phone calls, took some notes, tried to figure out who the best lawyer for him would be, correct? Yes. In addition to that, you figured out what his bail meant was. No, I had nothing to do with that. Michael somehow managed to pay $250,000 for him to get out on bail.

Linda insisted she didn't cover that cost. Michael's defense attorney, John Henry Brown, told me the updikes weren't paying his fee either. Is Linda updike paying for Michael Oaks defense? No, God, I wish she was. Like, for their really wish she was.

No.

There's no money going through a third party to Oaks family and back to you guys.

No, I'm going to lose my shirt on this case actually. Just like many of my other cases. Back at trial, the prosecution showed no sympathy in its cross examination of Linda. Now, it's correct, isn't it, that throughout the investigation of this case, you've been concerned about your own potential legal liability in this case?

The prosecutor even suggested Linda's support for Michael may have been an attempt to protect herself.

“You don't have to worry about Mr. Stover now, do you?”

It appears to be that case. And in that sense, the defendant helped you out, correct? No. Isn't it true that if this is the case of self-defense, it gets you off the hook, too? What do you mean by that?

You indicated you were concerned about your own potential liability in this case. If a jury were to find that this was self-defense, you wouldn't have any more liability either, would you? I have no liability in this case. The prosecution also argued that Linda had no evidence mark continued to stock her after his arrest. You made a report on December 5, 2008.

You were called that. Yes.

“And you indicated that time that you believed that you saw Mr. Stover's vehicle in the area.”

You were called that. Yes, I do.

Kahola Kula pointed out that Linda was never able to identify Mark in this incident,

or several others she reported in 2008 and 2009. Nobody was able to respond in time. So the answer would be no. That is correct. Prosecutors also called Mark Stover's fiancé, Teresa Vox Michael, to testify. Their engagement was used as evidence Mark was moving on.

I talked to Teresa in 2010. In the weeks before he died was he a happy man. He oh, he lies. He was like a kid.

“He was joking with me all the time and he was always fun, you know, when we were on the phone.”

But Teresa claimed there was still a dark presence in his life. His ex-wife Linda. She said that Mark described Linda as a vengeful ex who wouldn't leave him alone and often took him to court. He was just very troubled about the way things had gone. And what did he believe the end game was with her?

I don't know that he thought there was a goal. He just couldn't believe that things wouldn't stop. The legal battles, the accusations, he knew his life was in danger. But Michael's attorneys alleged just the opposite. They argued Mark threatened and stopped Michael and that he only killed Mark to defend himself and his family. They insisted Mark and Michael met multiple times.

The defense even claimed to have a witness who said Mark mentioned seen Michael and Linda at a Costco months before the shooting. But the judge ruled there was no way to verify the witness's story. Soon, Michael would learn his fate. For years, gone south has been a podcast about crime in the American south. But for our new season, we're widening the lens.

Through deeply reported narrative-driven stories, we're digging into the myths, scandals, and power structures that still shape the south. In a lot of ways, the country itself. Follow and listen to Gone South Season 5, an Odyssey podcast available now on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your shows. After more than 50 witnesses and more than 700 exhibits, the jury began to deliberate.

They took four days before they reached a verdict. Alright, please. Linda sat next to Michael's mom and tried to comfort Michael's daughters as they all waited. Mark Stover's niece Julia Simmons was there to represent his family. Who did this jury believe?

We, the jury, find the defendant Michael Glenn Oaks guilty of the crime of murder in the first degree, premeditated murder as charged. Michael was found guilty of first degree murder. He turned and hugged his daughters. At his sentencing, his mother Cory Oaks pleaded with the judge to have mercy,

that her son never wanted to hurt Mark.

He wanted to reason with him, I believe that, with all my heart.

He would never want to take a life. He is not a murderer.

And none of us would want that for Mark. Mark's family felt differently. His sister Victoria Simmons asked the judge to give Michael the maximum sentence. Why was he murdered? Where is my brother?

“When will I be able to lay him to rest in a dignified manner?”

Years from now, Michael Oaks will be released. He will have paid his debt to society. I will still be serving the life sentence that Michael Oaks did. Judge Mike Rickard sentenced Michael to the maximum amount of time in prison. 26 and a half years. The absurdity of the actions that you took on that day are beyond believed.

And I've got to tell you there's a large part of your story.

I just flat do not believe it never will.

“There was finally an ending to this emotional saga gone horribly wrong.”

But there will always be lingering questions about what really happened on October 28th, 2009. The pieces don't fit very well in this case after four weeks. And to a certain degree, I almost have more questions now than I had when we picked the jury. This case of Mark Stover has been defined by an infinite loop of suspicion between three people. Linda said she feared Mark. Mark said he feared Linda.

And Michael said he too eventually feared Mark. Each person claimed the other was threatening their life until that morning in October proved that one of them was right.

“With no more new information surrounding the crime, law enforcement closed the case in 2012.”

Linda's father, Wally updike, died in 2018 at age 81, at his home in White Fish Montana. The Shatto San Michelle winery, the largest in Washington remains open today and thriving. The updike's sold kick at Island 2. It's now a park that belongs to the Swinomish tribe. It's open to the public for hiking, but there are no dogs allowed.

After Michael went to prison, his daughter April Oak said each of her siblings went to stay at a different home. April lived with Linda until she was 17 and said Linda has remained a big part of the family's lives. Linda left that for an interview in 2011. It's incomprehensible to me that that's a verdict that would have come back.

Michael's first instinct was to turn to all of you.

Yes, he definitely loves his children and loves me and I know that his biggest concern is for all of us and our biggest concern is him. So we're all supporting each other and just sticking by one another. Michael appealed his case to no avail. He is incarcerated at the Washington State Penitentiary in Walla Walla. In a call from prison in April 2025, Michael said he expects to get out in 2035 when he is 67 years old. He blamed one of his appellate attorneys failing to file an appeal on time for his inability to keep challenging his sentence in court.

Today, there is a website, free Oak's.com that advocates for Michael's freedom. His family sent us documents from Michael's appeal. In 2017, the Oak's family hired an oceanographer to study where Mark's body may have ended up in the water and believe that the police missed a spot where the current could have moved Mark. Detective Dan Lou Vera said the police searched the channel multiple times and even used underwater cameras. We asked Michael about his current relationship with Linda Updike. He said he wanted to respect her privacy.

After Mark's death, Theresa, the woman who had hoped to marry Mark took his dog ding into her home. Dean had miraculously survived being shot. And when she came to be with me, she slept on my bed. She went to work with me. She was with I took her everywhere with me.

And was that tough? Because ding was a link to Mark.

Oh, she was my last link to him. Theresa told me that ding was buried with a custom headstone. She hopes a day will come when they can give Mark the proper burial he deserves. I would love to see him buried with a ring on his finger.

Mark's sister, Victoria Simmons, said she will never rest until her brothers' remains are found.

“I need to find him, and I just can't let that go. Being a woman of faith, I know that everything done in secret will eventually be shouted from the house tops.”

You cannot plead the fifth in heaven, and the truth will come out eventually.

A celebrity dog trainer, an eras, and her bodyguard, three lives ruined by a triangle of jealousy, fear, and rage.

From 48 hours, this is trained to kill the dog trainer, the eras, and the bodyguard, produced by Sony Music Entertainment.

“I'm your host, Peter van Satt. Judy Tigard is the executive producer of 48 hours. Original reporting by 48 hours producers Ryan Smith and Liza Finley.”

Jamie Benson is the senior producer for Paramount Audio, and moral waltz is the senior story editor. Recording assistance from Alan Pang and Reginald Bezeel. Special thanks to Paramount Podcast Vice President Megan Marcus. It is written and produced by Alex Schumman. Stephanie Sorano is our editor. Our executive producer is Shira Morris. Our associate producer is Zoe Kolken, theme and original music composed by Hans Dale Shee. Sedrick Wilson is our sound designer and mixed the episodes. We also use music from APM and Epidemic Sounds.

Fendell Fulton is our fact-checker. Our production manager is Tamika Balance Colassney. I'm Peter van Satt. If you're enjoying the show, be sure to rate and review. It helps more people find it and hear our reporting. Follow and listen to train to kill and other 48 hours podcasts on the free Odyssey app, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening. This year on NPR's throughline, life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness.

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