Building a Restaurant Empire: Aquavit, Red Rooster, Hav & Mar and Beyond, Korean-Style Pork Lettuce Wraps with Marcus Samuelsson

Hey everybody, welcome to Bobby on the beat. Today we are very special guest, Marcus Samuel Sin, Marcus and I go way back. We have lots of stories to tell, so welcome Marcus. I'm so glad to have you here.

You know, you and I have a connection that is an important part of the rise of who you are. Yeah, um, I just happen to be standing there. But it's a story that I want to tell if that's okay with you. Absolutely, like even, you know, we see each other so many different things and most of us have a lot of people around us.

But when, like, I know I'm going to speak to you, I always think about it.

“Right. But you grew up most of your life in Sweden, right?”

Yeah, I mean, and that's, and that's kind of an important part of the story because I want to tell, I want to tell a little bit of the story from my point of view. Obviously, your point of view is, is way more deep in mind because you lived it. But from, for me, um, Aqua V, you know, the highest end Swedish restaurant in America for sure. Maybe, maybe in the world.

In the world, yeah, okay, and I wouldn't know, but yeah, it's probably in the world. At that point, yeah, for sure. I had Mesa Grill. It was night, we opened Mesa Grill in 1991.

In 1994, I opened a restaurant called Boa, which was my first managed restaurant.

So when I was opening Mesa Grill, I was holding, uh, you know, sort of, auditions for people to cook in the restaurant. It's a lot different than then than it is today.

“I mean, we had people in droves coming to who wanted to cook in the restaurant.”

And it was, it was a brand new restaurant in Fifth Avenue. It was a lot shinier than the restaurant. You're talking about, um, miracle grill in the East Village. And it was on the bright lights of Fifth Avenue as opposed to, you know, being in the East Village, which at the time was not a very safe place to be.

One of the cooks who kept coming back and back, and it took me a while to hire him, was from Sweden. His name was, whose name was Yon Sendel. He was working for a Mexican, a, a high-end Mexican restaurant called El Tettis. I had called the chef there, and I said, "What do you think of this guy?" And he's like, "You know, he's got a little bit of an attitude."

And I was like, "Check, okay, we can arrest him, please, right?" Yes, okay. And so he came, and I didn't hire him, he kept coming back and back. This is the, this is the kind of story that you hear and read about in books. I like him already, you know. Exactly. He kept coming back and he said to me, "Please, I will cook for you. I want to work for you so badly. I am so interested in these flavors and what you're about to do here at Mesa Grill.

And my manager at the time, a woman named Fram Bernfeld, who came from Miracle Grill with me, said to me, "You know, and she was the most reasonable and relaxed person I've ever worked with." And she's like, "Bobby, hire this kid. He wants it."

“Yeah, he wants it. Like, who cares what his reference was?”

Like, the guy didn't say he was like a murderer. Like he said he's got a tough attitude. Okay, great. He's in the restaurant business. So I hired him and it turned out to be an amazing hire. Yeah. And he was dedicated to perfection. And every station that he works, he went and perfected. And he went around the kitchen over the over three years. And he would go home. He was married, he was a young guy at a young wife.

And he would go home and he would put his chef code on. We used to make fun of him. And he would put his chef code on and start prepping at home and make dinner.

You know, so he never stopped cooking. I opened Bolo.

Yeah. And he came to me at this point. He had worked his way up to sous chef because he was so dedicated. Everybody wanted an eat there. In fact, the owner of Aquavita had done swan. It would come once a week. It felt like, you know, I got to know him. And, you know, I knew he had this very important sweetest restaurant. Yeah. And I said to him, a couple of times, jokingly, I have your, I have your future chef in my kitchen. Yeah, that is great.

So he's like, no way. And I was like, he's from Sweden. Yeah. He doesn't really know a lot about Swedish food, ironically. But he's an amazing worker and a smart guy. And he's dedicated to his profession. And I'm telling you that if you at some point, if you don't hire him to be the chef of your restaurant, you're making a mistake. Wow. And he literally was like, yes, sure, Bobby. Your goes by, I open Bolo.

And I give him the chef the cuisine job at Mesa Grill. Wow. And it goes on for about a year. Yeah. And he calls me about a year later and says, "Can I sit down and have a conversation with you?" I said, sure. He said, I got it. He said, I'm very, and he was shaking. Yeah. And he said, I'm very nervous because I have a job offer. And I don't want to take it. But I'm so, like, rattled by it. Yeah.

And I'm like, what's the job offer? And he said, they offer me the head chef job at Aquafi.

because you have to take the job. Yeah. Like, this is your moment. This is,

“you're a Swedish guy. This is the most important Swedish restaurant probably in the world. Go. Fly.”

You need a 30. I mean, you know, 30 or 31. You have a very young, long story short, took the job. Also, in the interim, asked if he could take one of my sous chefs with him, Larry Manheim,

because he just felt he needed some back Larry. Right. So I let two of my most important people

go talk with me. But you know what? But that's Marcus. Yeah. That's our business. We were taught to be generous with each other. So I lost two of my people. But of course, I was in the phone with them once a day because they were asking me how to do things. Yeah. Now, I didn't know this, but you were in the kitchen. Yeah. And you were cooking there. Yeah. Very young. How old were you? 23. Oh, my God.

So young was there for, I don't know, a month or so or two months. I forget it was a very short period of

“time. It seemed like a day to me when I think about it. There was no internet then. No.”

This, the most important thing that you got was like, obviously, the New York Times, but that was way down the line for him. And he got a story in New York, magazine about him being the new chef. This Swedish guy who was the sous chef at Nacer Grill, who was going to be taking over the kitchen at Aquavit. It was such a big deal. And he said to me, he called me on a Thursday and he said, I made it. He said, in New York, magazine, my photo, they're going to announce me is the new chef at

Aquavit. It's coming out on Monday. Yeah. And over the week, and he died. Yeah. Which was shocking to all of us, of course. Obviously, I went to the funeral at this Swedish church in New York, etc. It was just, it was such an awful, awful occurrence. Yeah, Bobby. I mean, everything about that story, the good and the bad and the ugly, not story, all of it. It speaks to New York City hospitality in the 90s, right? Because it talks about a mentorship.

It talks about you speak about ambition. Young was all of those things. All right. And I remember

one thing, and I've never out of respect for him done this dish, but he showed me a dish. Very simple.

And think about this is 1995. He showed me, he did a tiny lobster salad, just like simple lobster salad, simply I only with lemon, chopped chives, and then he cubed an Asian pair and wrapped it with pickle die-con and gave it to me. It's still to this day, the best version of lobster, I've ever had. And I was like, I can't put this, it's not my dish, this is John's dish. And I had to cut the pair, I had to pickle the die-con. None of that was his strengths, but he knew this dish in his head.

And it was about to put that on on the menu service. For me, it was the easiest job in the world. Like he knows flavors better than me or head of me. And I have these strengths techniques. I was like, we're going to be this killer pair, right? You know, it was horrible what happened. So anyway, you became the chef, right? And then your career, your whole life took off. I mean, you got three stars in the New York Times and then it was like one Accolade after the

next. How old were you when you got the three star of you? Uh, 24, 23 24. I mean, particularly. I mean, seriously, I mean, I opened Mason Grillman. I was 25.

And people say, people say, my daughter always says, I mean, she's like that, how did you do that?

But like the fact that you were 24 years old, getting three stars in the New York Times at this like spectacular. Like, was it surreal to you? Was it were you too young to understand what it was? I didn't know who was racial was. I didn't read the New York Times. I didn't know what food and wine or bon app. So when you saw, you're just cooking. And I wasn't even tapped into New York at that level yet, right?

They said, we're going to be reviewed. I don't think at that point it came out on a Sunday.

“I think the room either Friday or Sunday. I don't remember. Right. Yeah. And I was like, what are we”

going to do when she's coming in? And I hope that's like, what are you talking about? It's already She's done. It's done. You know? And then it's like, it's good. They want to come and take pictures. It's like, that's good, because that means that it's not going to be bad at least. So yeah, that was just one of those things. Like, listen, it was a tragic moment, obviously. But somebody has to take over. Yeah. And you and you were the guy. All right. So I made you a snack.

Um, it's like a crew. It's a pork and Korean Asian rat. Bobby, I'm going to beat. All right, Korean style pork lettuce wraps. Let's get it on. We're going to first dice up some scallions. And then we're going to crush the little bit of fresh garlic and great some ginger. This is going to be for the marinade. All this is going right into the marinade to

the garlic, a little bit of soy or tomato. And then we have some orange juice, a little salt and pepper and a little bit of avocado oil as well. And then we're going to slice up some pork shoulder, kind of really paper thin. Otherwise, it's not like it can be as tender as we want. And we're going to put it in the marinade. And you know, I would say three to four hours or overnight if you can. A little spice rub on the outside, salt and pepper on both sides. Very, very hot grill.

And you want to get it really nice and crusty. So we cooked this with an entire heat. So crusty on the outside and nice and juicy on the inside takes like, I don't know, three minutes max and it's really tender. Now we're going to layer the lettuce wraps, a couple of pieces of lettuce, some sushi rice that's been cooked, of course. Some of the pork that's been diced up, some sesame seeds, a mixture of cojujang, soy and honey. That's kind of the drizzle and some fresh herbs like cilantro and some

Thai basil. And actually, I'm going to put just a little bit of kimchi because I haven't my refrigerator and I like that fermented flavor. And oh damn, got a little of my cheek. Bobby on the beat. I love cojujang so much. So good. Cojujang is like, it's like, it's like, it's a great way to cheat flavor because it has so many different things happening at one time. If you're Chipotle from 90 bar, you've been able to evolve in a spectacular way. And frankly,

“that's what it takes. Having one hit, I hit record, I hit restaurant, whatever it is. It's not that”

it's easy. It's really, really hard. But the second one is even harder and the third one and especially if they're different cuisine or different approaches. And you've been able to do that, like, when you open a red rooster, like you set Harlem on fire. I mean, and I'm a native New Yorker,

like, I love Harlem. I love what's going on in Harlem. I always have. Yeah.

And you come out and support us many times. Absolutely. First, hauling me up with us. And I don't remember what you said to the crowd's like, you take a fucking Ethiopian sweet and do this festival in Harlem. No, exactly. And then I was just laughing. I said to your herb, our partner, I was like, that's like the best compliment. We can shut the f*** down. I got the best compliment. Well, I mean, we'll first of all, like Harlem is a melting pot of the world. I mean,

I used to hang out in Harlem in the Italian section. Yes, of course. It was an avenue, exactly. Like, whenever I, I'm about to walk into a rooster, I kind of look around and I feel like you've lit up six blocks in circumference. Yeah. You've obviously created value there. Yeah. For sure. I'm sure you've raised the the rents for the restaurants around you. I'm sure they don't love that. I appreciate that. But, but listen, but there's a party going on there every single day.

And it's amazing. Yeah. It's amazing. And the two things with the red rooster that most people

“don't know. After nine eleven, I was shell-shot. And I called my mom's like, I think it's time to go.”

And she's like, I'm coming. You're not leaving. You can leave when you're ready to leave, but you're not leaving because of this. Right. So my mom came from Sweden. Really moved in with me. And then I was, I was really depressed. And I was like, I can't work depressed. It doesn't work with us. Like, we got to be creative. So I couldn't beat it. I was like, what am I going to do? And then my mom said to me, hey, I know you always happen when you go to Harlem. You always tell me you always call

me, why don't you just look for an apartment there? And I was like, and she's like, why do we

always, first of all, Mark, why do you rest on so it's expensive? Why though we're so far away?

You're mom. Mom. Mom. You're like, your mom is staring at me. Yeah. So like, you can't, like, she holds up the mirror. It's like, why don't you open a smaller plate or place in the neighborhood where you're happy? So eventually, I'm actually moved to Harlem. And then I realized right away, it's like, I mean, no position to open a restaurant here.

“I don't know enough. And people ask me every day, when you want to open, you should open a”

restaurant. I was like, I'm not ready in every, the years went by. And I was still working on aquavit. We got a second three story of you, you know, one ton of the words. It was like really exciting time. But in my head, I've like one day, I kind of worked myself out of my funk. And it was

basically a large aquavit cookbook. And it was, you know, the world was happening. But I knew I knew

that I was. I didn't know what year I would be leaving. But it's funny then when the financial downturn in 2008 happened, I knew like at that point, how can I build the business? We had restaurant in Japan, where the aquavit in Japan, where the aquavit in Stockholm, we had ACU cafes, we built up a vault, we built up a big business that had a lot of value. But you know, when there's no money in the value anymore, as scary as that is, I'm like, that's actually an opportunity. I'm out.

Right. And that downturn really became an opportunity in a way for you to move on to the next

said, I want to be the place where no one knows to add it. It's just a landmark where you kind of tell whether it's Uber or train, however you get there, see your rooster. Like, if you know I would have brunch at balkasar, it's like, it's okay if I'm half an hour later, you're, because you're not alone, like you're like, and that's really the ecosystem. I know, but you know, a lot of people look at it, place like balkasar, and I'm like, I want to open a restaurant like balkasar,

I'm like, good luck. You know what I'm saying? I mean, you've been able to, you have that up, up, uptown. With rooster, I thought a lot about what can I do as a leading black chef for other chefs of color, right? Yeah, do you feel pressure there? Yeah, but it's like, you, you're not about just the pressure. It's like, you gotta do something with it. There's gotta be something there behind

that wall for me. Otherwise, you know, I also come on a lot of privilege. Like, first of all,

an immigrant to this country, not a refugee, forward to come from Ethiopia. Maybe I wouldn't even come in. I come from Sweden. Extremely privileged. Yeah. All the civil rights changes and laws. I'm a benefit of it. I'm very aware that a lot of African-Americans couldn't get a loan, but as a Swedish citizen, I could get a bank loan. So I, you can't, you can't really, for me, I can't really walk this walk unless I'm aware of my privileges, right? Okay. But no,

“I don't think about, you asked me, that's why I think about it. But you, okay, but that's incredibly”

thoughtful of you. It really is, because not everybody would think that way. But now you're here, you're successful. Yeah. And like, there are so many people that look up to you who are looking to get their life right. Yeah. And so how do you handle all that? First of all, I think there is, there are like, where can we seek out careers for culinary arts? Have really grounded me and have

I've done it for 25 years. And I've met so many amazing kids. They're now in, they're not restaurant owners,

they're master songs. Amazing. The thing. So that taught me a lot. Being in Harlem, seeing how some people have been incarcerated, but through culinary, through our restaurants, they've been actually get their life back on track. Sure. We like life experiences. For me, it was important to have an open kitchen. So there's a real link between the guests and the experience. So when Hof came about, I'm like, okay, so I feel good about, what does it mean? What's the, what's

Hof and Mar? Hof is, Hof is the Swedish word, and it means ocean. Mar is the Ethiopian word, and it means honey. So this sweet, a really good, Mar, yeah, it's an Italian word, exactly. I wanted that like ocean on ocean. Okay. And I'm okay if people think that because that's fun. Yeah. But I wanted that one of one word that you actually have to Google and still you can't I'm like, what does that mean? Because it's that you're in Chelsea. We go to taking on an art journey,

right, or food journey. Are you in our collective? Do you like? I am absolutely absolutely. One of the first things I started to do was when I came to New York, also because my friends were artists and we were broke at the same time. But so with Hof, I felt like, you know what?

“Let's, when I was at those places that George Braun and so on, the only thing I never saw”

was women and people of color. And I was like, you're not in that position where you can, you now are in a position of power. So when you before you open this restaurant, let's focus on women and leadership, right? So all key positions, leadership position, GM, chef, headbar, are all held by women. Love it. And not just, you worked with, I worked with so many

amazing chefs that are women that work for you. Yeah. And why should they stop at Sushia,

what's the CDC? No, go, go and run the whole thing. Marcus, you and I learned a long time ago, women really rule over with. Yes. We're just, we're just hanging out. Yeah, we're hanging out. I mean, I have 15 restaurants, nine of them are led by women, both in GM and executive chef position, which is, you know, our biggest restaurant is in Bahamas. Right. All led by women. Yeah, local women.

“Right. And so I'd like to be in the leading position. Just like you are, you have to be led by”

curiosity and make paths for others, right? When did the Ethiopia project start? We've been open for two years and it's been one of the most amazing rides of my life. As an adopted person, you almost learn about yourself in reverse. So the most basic things about your mom or your brother or sister rather, you know, you know the color of their eyes, you know the laugh, you know what makes them tick. When you're adopted, these basic things, you don't know. And then when you go to a

country and it's happening now when I bring my son, right? He's like, I look, I am Ethiopian, but I don't speak the language. Your son is the most beautiful child in the world, thank you. So it's like all these

food. So my language is food. So I will open a restaurant here because that's my, that's our way to communicate, right? So when I knew I couldn't just open the restaurant, I had to be a school with it as well. So because only so many kids can work in the restaurant. Yeah. And so it's been part of that

package. It's amazing. And it's, it's given me so much. Oh my God, that's so great that you did that.

I mean, seriously. So it keeps me really on my toes, but also remembers my why, right? And this gift that I've been given, I had to work for, of course, I can have share it, you know, and that was kept me going out hard and for a long time. That's also what gives me to Africa. Actually, when Tone number of men and I went to Ethiopia together, of course, I brought every trip. I bring pots, pans, shoes, all that stuff. And my only way she can go out and run with the kids, right?

And they could be five to like 15, what I'd 20 years doesn't matter, right? And first of all, all the kids came barefoot up like, I gave you guys shoes. They're like, no, those are going out, shoes, we're not running with these shoes. And the road is not like the road down here, right? So we start to run like they just take off and they just look at me and like, are you coming on go or are you coming? And I was like, I'm fine. I mean, so the fact that you have, you know,

that kind of influence in a place like that, I mean, I mean, you have like, you make wonderful food, you open great restaurants, you hire people and you give them careers, but like you're inspiring

“people in a way that very few people get to do. I mean, and that's why I said to you like,”

do you feel the pressure of this all? I actually think about it, so just to say to you, no, I don't, because it's not true. I think about it a lot. And I also make talk a lot about, you know, that joy you get from seeing like, for example, like, my young, mentee Oman and young chef that is doing amazing now, Kristen, he just won top chef, right? We're 10 years together in the kitchen and every year is like, as you go on top chef, I said, you're not ready.

I'm not, I'm not sending until you're ready. And you applied three years, didn't get in. And the year he went, I knew, I can't guarantee you would win, but I knew, go to the final. Yeah, right? And to see him actually go all the way, and we've been, we've very sort of sparse when we say sending somebody to competitions like Adrian worked in my kitchen, she got to the final. It's that discipline on your next and seeing that chef executing on their vision,

it makes me as happy as anything. Well, you're, you're a good mentor for that, because I had you on triple threat last season, and you were possessed Marcus. I've known you for like decades.

I've never seen, I've never seen this Marcus Anderson before my life, and you willed yourself

to beat those guys. I mean, you wanted it so badly, but it was amazing. I've been lucky enough to do a lot of cooking competition, and one, a lot of the top chef, and, you know, whatever, chopped off, all that stuff, the triple threat is the hardest thing I've ever done. It's very hard, because no matter what you think, of course, the three of them, whoever the three are, they're incredible, but they're also in that competing. Oh, yeah. You can't come and think about

you in the restaurant, and that's their house, too. There's their house. Yeah. So, and I thought about

“it, and I was like, all right, I think the last course, I pulled out gooey duck, because I was like,”

gotta do something. Like, I'm like, Michael knows about gooey duck, Brooke knows about gooey duck, but maybe she hasn't cooked that much. And Tiffany, I was like, "No, maybe not!" Right? So, that was my only strategy. The thrill in the moment of being there, but still you got to be focused on your thing. It's, it's like the most fun you can have, and you're really living, and now that's

what I'm one thing I always tell chefs, especially chefs that cook for a while, I said, "No,

I don't want to do it." I said, "When you cook in a competition, you truly living." In a way, like, when you do beat Bobby Flake, regardless how it goes, it is better. You are, I mean, you're in it, and that adrenaline feel is what we need, as chefs, especially, we have good that cooked longer, because it's not that often you get that. For me, it's the highest privilege. I don't even think about, and then, obviously, I've been an athlete on my life, so that competing

side. Let's go. Yeah. Yeah. If somebody has never experienced the Marcus Samuels in experience,

“and they wanted to experience three things. What three things would you tell them?”

Let me cook for you. Okay. And in that food journey, I think by looking at me,

years and the time I went back and forth between Asia really impacted me. It's like looking at you,

“and why would he be so into flavors that come from South America? So that's why never look at a”

chef and think you know her or him, because you don't. You just don't. The fact that I've been in business for 30 years in New York City, it's the highest reward for me. You know, that's not going to show up and to frame thing, but for me, it's everything, because New York has changed so much. Oh, yes. And it continues to. In continues too. And so I think that's something that we share. We share that curiosity. What's, what's, what's that guy doing? You know, we don't care that

“cook doesn't have a plaque or none of that dish was, whatever this kid is to him. And I think I”

would say to myself, the minute that curiosity, it's gone, yeah, I'm going to quit. God, people can find you on social media, obviously, right? Yeah, I mean, this is a, you know, Marcus Cook, so I'm excited about this year. I'm, right? I'm starting a sauce line. You know, I'm very excited about that. Okay. It's not, it's like the red sauce base is so crowded, so I'm going to go

“everything but red sauce. If you want to cook the curry at home, you can't do ice,”

it's a teeny ingredient. Right, right. Great flavor for food. That's the space that we're going to go for and I feel really good about it. And I'm excited. I'm actually starting this year of residence program where young two young chefs can apply and they're going to be all expenses paid for by us and they're going to be able to go up state and live with the artist and reflect. When when I came up in the 90s, my, my, my friends were not necessarily chefs, they were actually

artists and when we went to Stages, they went to residence. Sure. And I was like, this is

exactly where we meet us. Exactly. So for me, it was always a dream to build a residence program.

So I've partnered with an amazing artist and Deneston Hills, which has cast it, cast skills and people can apply and you're going to get two weeks paid for and they can just reflect on the career and it's fantastic. Those things gives me a lot of joy. I like that. Listen, you've made

your mark on, not just the restaurant industry, but like just the world. I mean, it's amazing.

So continue success. Hi, man. That was awesome. Wonderful conversation. If you really like what you're hearing here, please hit subscribe button. Let's just know that you want us to keep doing this. We're having the best time. Stay tuned for the next week's call. Bobby on the beat.