Inside the Mind of Michael Voltaggio, Triple Threat and Iron Chef, Bobby Flay’s Fried Chicken

You're listening to your favorite podcast this week. We have Michael Votaggio Check Extraordinary one of the Titans on Triple Threat. This is gonna be a wild ride. So let's get it on. You're one of those guys that Things about food in such a different way. It makes me sit up and pay attention. That's the beauty of what you do But also the thing that I really love about what you do is you understand the science of food

“But your food is in this incredible rock-hard place of foundation. I know you grew up in Maryland, right?”

But like What led you like to me? I could tell my story very quickly. You know, I dropped out of high school

And then I went to get a job started cooking and never stopped. What what's your story?

Similar I guess in that aspect, but I I didn't drop drop out of high school. I was invited to leave my home When I was 16 years old, it's a nice way to put it. So I had to pay rent. I was playing football. I was going to school And I was cooking and the cooking part was my survival and a lot of people are like, oh, I was I couldn't get into anything else Because I was doing this and that and the other I was doing all that stuff too But I was actually really doing a good job at work

So I was working 40 hours a week while in high school and I graduated But like I missed 56 days my senior year of high school and I remember I wanted my mom to see my name in the newspaper once You know when you make honor roll or whatever it is. So my very last semester in high school I was able to like deliver that to my mom. So you were good student. No, I was terrible student. Oh

“I think I my GPA was under 2.0 or whatever, but I had this innate desire to please people and everything that I think I was doing”

It wasn't ever really for myself

I think that a lot of the things that I always did was

For other people. I didn't want to be in the honor roll, but I wanted my mom to have that moment to be like, oh look my son's name is in the newspaper You made the honor roll and I think that just carried with me through everything else that that I did after that But yeah, I genuinely needed money to pay bills when I was 16 years old But you were playing football? Yeah, I was a kicker. Okay. You were kicker. Yeah Of course you were yeah, were you good? Yeah, I was kicking like 50 yard field goals and yeah, great

That's crazy. But like again, it was this this opportunity to be a part of something a lot like the kitchen But you didn't go to college. No. Okay, so you graduated high school and then you and then what happened? I need to increase the revenue because my then my bills now I'm an adult now I'm out of high school I'm living on my own completely so I got a job at a country club as a sous chef because my brother was going to the CIA which is the culinary school up here and you know up in high park and I couldn't really afford to go to culinary school

“So I worked at this country club and saved money and then this guy was like hey, you should go do this apprenticeship at the Green”

Breyer hotel. I'm like oh Virginia. Yeah, I'm like what's that? Where's that? He's like it's in the mountains of West Virginia Yeah But then I went down there and I I called them and I was like, hey, I want to try out for this apprenticeship I was 19 18 19 They were like well, you need to come down and try out and I'm like, okay cool

They're like when can you come like how's like how's next week on Thursday or whatever And it was like that was they were like well, that's Christmas Eve No worries. I'll be there like I'll come down. I want to see it when it's the busiest or whatever So I drove down there in the middle of the night. I didn't have enough money to sleep there So I just worked the entire shift and then

drove back at like midnight to get home by Christmas morning and they didn't accept me at first

So then I applied to culinary school in San Francisco my girlfriend at the time was living there and so I I got accepted Into culinary school out there two months before I was supposed to leave to go out there the greenbryer calls and they're like hey We had a spot open for this apprenticeship if you still want to do it Come on down. I'm like, okay. Yeah, so when I do it Called my girlfriend we broke up. I didn't go to San Francisco. I went to West Virginia instead and I ended up living in the mountains of West Virginia

And just focused on cooking classic classic classic for three years. So that was kind of like your your culinary school For the for really it was right it was there was a program a curriculum certain tasks that I had to complete Ultimately to please certified master chef that was in charge of that program at the time and then ultimately graduate So I just kept doing what every chef that I worked for told me to do which was just keep learning how to cook And I remember trying to

Be a sous chef or trying to get this job or that job and this these chefs kept telling me like Don't worry about the position you can go learn how to take do the ordering and the inventory and all that just keep going and learning how to cook Yeah, matter where you are and I connect that to today because I think like the competing part of what we do Now that I'm the chef like People come to me for the information and the restaurants and I'm supposed to be the teacher the only opportunity that I really get a side

From absorbing it from the different cooks that come to work for us or with us is in these competitions I'm interested in the way all of them cook and so for me, it's the best opportunity for me to get that information

You know classic classic French cuisine probably right? Where do you find modernous cuisine? I had worked at the Ritz Carlton in April, Florida and at the time There was a chef there that came from France's name was our no bear to the a and he had worked for du cost and This was when like hotels had really nice

Forward-thinking restaurants which they still do in a lot of ways today. He was one of the people first people

I Suvi cooking he had the merchant circulator. This was the year 2001 which was like the entry level to molecular cuisine Right, and I remember watching him. I was the chef. I was the sous chef in the steak house He was the fine dining chef in the restaurant, but we shared a line we're in the same area and I would see I could look at the food. I couldn't tell you what it was I would see it and be like wow that's so cool. I don't know what that is and I'd walk over there and it would be like a red pepper

“But he manipulated it so much into where I was like wow. Oh, that's what's possible”

And I think in in that moment I got hooked on that so I'd already had this foundation of like cooking delicious food Lots of butter lots of brazing lots of sauce work, but then I saw this other style of food and then he taught me You know, Suvi cooking and so from there I was like well, where can I go get more information like this? And so at this time now I'm in my early 20s and I now have two kids So I need money so I was like I need to figure out a path where I could still make enough money to support my family

But I can still go get this information to be the best like and I remember my friends sunny at the time was like Hey, if you want to be like those chefs you have to go work for those chefs So like in the winter time from the green bar I would come to New York and I would like I worked for Larry 4 June and like my offseason And then I go back to the green bar and I would like butcher deer to make more money so I could save up for the next trip to go work for somebody else I would like go find like a local butcher and stand in his front yard and like cut up dead deer carcasses to get paid

But also I learned how to butcher so I go and I apply to get a staage at the French laundry

I tried and tried and tried and they finally said yes

So I got to go like staage there and I go there for a month and I saved up enough money pretty much to the dollar to like rent a bedroom in somebody's house And y'all though cuz you weren't gonna make a lot of money there. I made zero money. It was a staage. It was great zero. Okay That's not a lot no And I had a month to go there and absorb that information and so that started this sort of process where I needed like I left You know my family and I went and hung out there for a month and just studied as much as I could then I saw like oh

This is what perfection looks like right like okay. So now I've got a very precision. Yeah, right So now I've got classic. I saw what this the this French chef taught me and then I saw what like okay Perfection like when you're only trying to make so I'm like how do I we've all this together and some kind of a style like what

“What can I do so I realized I think probably not until recently that I don't really have a style”

But it was the curiosity became my style. I don't want to copy off of people I want to be inspired by people but I want to still find my own path. I ended up ultimately I mean, I had a bunch of jobs and between but I ended up back at the green briar. They built a restaurant for me

Many ways later. Yeah, they like designed a restaurant for me. They got this incredible restaurant designer

They just created a restaurant for you there. Yeah, because I was working for Charlie Palmer and y'all and in Hildesburg and I gone from My staunch at the French laundry when I left the Ritz Carlton I then needed I was like I need to work for one of these chefs. One of these restaurant chefs People know my brother was working for Charlie Palmer at the time so he got me a job in Hildesburg

And so I go to Hildesburg to run Charlie's restaurant dry creek kitchen and I ended up getting a really good review from the sermons to school chronicle and then I got I ended up getting a Michelin star there And so from there the green briar caught and they were like, hey, we're gonna build a restaurant Yeah, we think it'd be cool to build it all around you and blah, blah and so I went back and did that the restaurant was open for like one season But it didn't go well, but it went well for me

“Why didn't it go well? What do you think the issue was? I think I was probably trying to force something into an environment that didn't really overcooking”

So to speak meaning like doing exactly what you don't like about that style and in the interim between Moving from California back to West Virginia I did the same thing that I did when I went to staunch at the French laundry I ended up getting a staunch at a linear so I went and again I have no money. I have two kids at this point. I'm barely 30 and I'm I'm like broke. I'm paycheck to paycheck

Like I could not get ahead at all, but I Needed to keep spending that money to go get these experiences because I knew that Ultimately, I wouldn't get to go work for these places full time because I couldn't afford to and so that became kind of a pattern until I wouldn't be able to get those opportunities anymore because I think ultimately eventually people will start being like Oh, you're this is your resume. Why do you want to come work here? Like they knew that you were just coming by to see what they were too

I genuinely wanted to work in these places. It was my dream. I

That you worried that people think that you're going to steal something from them I don't think about it that way, you know, I business at all. I mean, I'm sure there are some people that feel that way But I really feel that the business is so generous The industry is so generous as a whole that like part of you being in the business is Giving and sharing. It's what separates this business from every other business in the world

You don't believe that? I do a hundred percent and I think what was interesting about those restaurants that I would go Stage in Was what they did was so specific That you couldn't just blatantly steal it because you you can't They were they're special for a reason these restaurants what I saw and learned from those experiences was how the kitchens operated

How they set them up and organize the team some of the techniques that I could apply to certain things

“But you can't carb and copy any of those dishes because that's what made those restaurants so famous and”

I didn't want to copy off of people But I needed to go see how they did it much like I went to as an early other night I needed to see how they pull that off every week for so long and you saw it when you see the cue cards And you see how the jib camera operates around and the running and how fast they can change the sets Yep, you're like okay like you learn from that and so these were the things that were important to me

A lot of times people want to put it put these things on their resumes They go there for that, but what they didn't realize was what was more important was how much you retained from that experience

No one's gonna care that you worked somewhere if you can't cook. That's true like my father would always say to me

When you go work at a place keep the things that you think are incredibly important and the things that you like and the things that you don't leave them behind I tried to get these people to notice me too, which also wasn't that important I you know, I never worked at a linear. I never worked at the French laundry

“I did work for Charlie Palmer. I did work for Larry for June. I did work for Jose Andre's”

Those staages were opportunities again for me to go to notice and get to experience what they did ultimately knowing that it was a dream of mine to work in those restaurants, but that I just it wasn't in my cards to be able to do so The thing that you get working for for a person like live for a journal or Jonathan Waxman Especially during that moment when the new American chef would add this sort of reticent so to speak

Was that you had people that you looked at as legends walking through your kitchen Little eating your meat and plaza of your station like Wolfgang Puck and dry my tower and Alice Waters and Dean Fierring and Mark Miller These people were part of your part of your life like you'd be you'd be in there You know cook and chicken and then all of a sudden these people will be standing at your station Why do you cook to me? That's when I knew I was in the right place because the excitement

Besides the fact that I was working hard and learning a trade I was excited to be there to be part of this

Incredible phenomenon that was taking place that was the moment yeah, and obviously it's gotten better and better since then

But a lot of those guys went and worked for the French guys And so part of that was like it was because back then the information wasn't available like you couldn't just go on your phone and pull those recipes up So we were all and I'm sure you went through this too. Like we were trading handwritten notebooks with each other and You know if you got off work and you went to the club together, you know you get a little vulnerable And then you start changing

You exchange your notebooks for a couple days. You're like hey, man I'll see you on Tuesday like let me get your notebook for the weekend and you have just swap notebooks I had many days which went like Saturday night, you know work until midnight go out Hit a night club then go to the after hours club save the robots with that open the 3 a.m Come out when the sun was up and then go cook brunch. Yeah, there was not a lot of sleep and some of those some of those nights

And you would think at the time that you were being irresponsible

“But I think that you were just creating we were creating that stamina for ourselves that it was gonna take to be able to do this”

You know what I mean like that's not something you can learn No, no, no cooking on the line is like one of the one of the great things that that's been a part of me

That and we'll always be a part of me forever being able to be a line cook allows me to do the things that I do today

Whether it's iron shaft or be Bobby Flair whatever it is because you learn had a multi task at the highest level in In that in that situation, but the customer was waiting for their food and they needed it on time Etc. And they were the judge and the clock they were everything, but now it just translates into you know a clock and three judges who sit and tell you what they think you're your food But that's also important and and the opportunity for us and even for you I would imagine at this point whether you care or not to get the critiques, but it's like you're still learning from that of course, and

You know, I I used to think back to even our original our iron shaft battle like I Needed to go win like the most important thing about this cooking competition is that I win only now Recently and you'll probably think I'm lying to you right now, but I try very hard to make not make that the prior like I want to win every time I go in there

Experience is is to cook food that I'm excited about

“So that I could excite other people because I'm doing this I want a lot of major cooking competitions”

I know how good that feels don't get me wrong. I want that every time I go out there But I also want to give something to the people that are watching me compete speaking of cooking I want to share how we made your spectacular fried chicken floppy on the beat All right, let's make some fried chicken with homemade ranch because you know everybody loves some ranch We're gonna start up by marinating the chicken with you and thighs only just because I like them

Bone in skin on Marinate it in some buttermilk and some hot sauce and then we're gonna make the dredge a lot of flour Some corn starch lots of urban spices just like the kernel likes it and then we're gonna also make another mixture With some more buttermilk to kind of go back and forth And she's kind of the well just keep an eye on this technique all right. You see we go in the flower

They're back for the buttermilk and back to the flower And then into some cooking oil about 250 degrees now We're gonna make some homemade ranch crush up a lot of garlic. We're gonna have some sour cream We're gonna have some dill we have a little bit of lime juice and we're gonna mix it all together I like to put a little bit of chili in there just because you know, I like it hot

So there goes I'm gonna fry the chicken up to a nice and crispy look at all those edges actually Kate a little chili powder on the outside some lime zest and then some You know ranch on the side because everybody loves ranch apparently slice up a lime and there it is the BFC that's Bobby's fried chicken Bobby on the beat. This is delicious. I I'm not this isn't to hype you up You're we're friends. You know that already. I care about you. I respect you. This is really good fried chicken

But like I couldn't make this in a competition, but I would lose to this in a competition

a million times right. This is what I want to get into because when I created triple threat and a lot of people don't even understand that

How it all works, but I create my shows period and I wanted to create this show because I wanted cooking at the highest level in a competition environment and I wanted to make it this kind of cool kind of clubbie feel I wanted to make it about the food and the chefs as opposed to like how we could stump everybody

“I'm not interested in that so that's why I give you guys ingredients that makes sense together”

We talk about this all time as you know I love Brooke, but you were by far my number one pick because you were such an obvious pick for me And the reason why you were an obvious pick for me was it was kind of all the reason that we've talked about You're a great chef. You look at things differently. You are not afraid to take risk and It's like a high wire event every single time you get in the kitchen

I know if it's interesting for me to watch it's gonna be interesting for them to watch when Michael Jordan was playing for the Chicago bulls Of course, he was a great player, but he literally had the other team on edge before they walked in the gym Because they didn't know what he was gonna do and that's where you are We perfectly honest sometimes it's greatness and sometimes it doesn't work out the way you want it to that's why I Love having you as part of that team because I know that you're gonna like you're gonna make the chef coming in

Chevrolet a little bit and you're gonna give us some amazing cooking and

We're gonna see things that we don't expect. I mean sometimes we're literally laughing on the sofa Because we're not laughing at you because we can't believe what you are actually trying to attempt Yeah, and sometimes that gives you a nine or a ten and sometimes it gives you a six or four or whatever and you get so upset And it's rise me crazy that you get so upset because the one thing I don't want you to be is miserable Yeah, I just want you I want you to enjoy yourself

But you take it so hard. I don't even know what to say to you like I'm a pretty good coach when it when it comes down to it And I like mentoring people when somebody doesn't like what you did especially if you think you did a great job You're distraught and like you take it so hard no matter what. I'm gonna try to win What you're getting on me about right now my emotions and how upset I get in blah, blah I guarantee that you were a little bit like that back in those days. Absolutely and so I

Yeah, you always joke like when I'm at you down. Yeah, yeah, but like when I pulled up

“You were like, oh, you didn't even say hi to me. You just looked right through me and blah, blah, blah. You still remember that of course”

I do and that wasn't intentional at that moment. But I think the menu that I put together for that battle was like I remember I bottled and labeled my own sodas and I made the potato charcoal From the rest from ink and I did all these things because I knew that I couldn't go head to head with you in the way that you cook So I needed to be so different that I would get notice And I feel like that's the part that I carry into every challenge more than anything else

Okay, not Can I show off can I accomplish this in the time that I have it's that will you remember what I try to do and if it worked

Well, I love this conversation because it you know, it allows people to understand including me

What how you approach this and what's really important to you? Okay, so in my so Yes, you want to win, but really what's really important to you is being Notice that and we being remembered for what you tried or attempted to do, right? But not just for the sake of being remembered, but for the sake of connecting with people on that level. Okay entertaining them

Exciting them and hopefully in some cases inspiring them back to that curiosity I'm curious when you can push yourself to take risks the rewards can be much greater But you'll probably fail more than most people do fail the winning and losing to me Doesn't matter it really doesn't as long as I know that everybody's giving it their all I can't make the judge do what I want them to do sometimes

That's judges there and it's their opinion 110% so when you lose and you get really upset Why can't you say to yourself? Yeah, but that's not really what's really important to me I did what I wanted to do and the judges didn't like it because I can't Uncare like I can't I can't so it does matter it matters in the moment what what Everyone doesn't realize is after that 15 minute fit goes away

That I'm able to reel it back and process what just happened But it's immediate because there's adrenaline involved. There's emotion involved. I care that much so I Every every single time I cook it's no different than like the fourth quarter of the Super Bowl and all they were right there And they could have won that game and oh that that feeling of like if I would have just ran left instead of right Maybe I could have won like you're going through that and if you're not going through that and you don't care

“Then you don't deserve to be there. Do you think I care if you want to lose?”

I don't think you care about me winning or losing as much as I do, but ultimately I look at you like I

Never wanted my chefs. I wanted my chefs to notice me. I wanted you to notice me on our chef

I wanted to be the best line cook in the kitchen I don't want to disappoint you a lot of in a lot of ways and I feel I Don't think you care this way or that way in order I think that you actually get disappointed if I don't win, but I Feel like if I fail and I don't win. I'm disappointing you

I'm disappointing Brooke. I'm disappointing Ayisha, and I'm disappointing the people that are watching like you look at me After you've had a bad round or two two bad rounds in a row or something like that and you're like feeling down about yourself And you look and the way you look at me is like this guy is disappointed in me He's he's gonna he's not gonna ask me back next. He's not something like that does that go through your head?

“Yeah, and right now like I don't really you're the only sorry that you have to have this position”

But you're like you're the only person that can really like be my chef right now Yeah, and I value that because we're so fast to climb to the top We want the title, you know, it started with getting your name on your jacket then sous chef underneath then chef to cuisine Then executive chef then it becomes about the accolades How many stars did you get what newspaper article what magazine best new chef this that

Eventually you lose the opportunity to have a mentor. This is why I feel a Responsibility to not disappoint you. I don't care about the numbers. I don't care It doesn't matter to me. What matters to me is that every time you get up off that sofa I'm excited and I know that if I'm excited that the viewers excited your teammates are excited The person you're going up against is is excited and probably nervous about going up against you as long as you continue to have that

Presence and that drive you're safe with me. I don't care about the numbers and I'm glad that you shared that part with me I'm glad we talked about that. What do you want to do? I want to continue to maintain the curiosity that got me this far And so for me what that looks like I don't I can't answer your question because back then I didn't have a plan be a better father be a better husband be a better chef

be a better person and ultimately just you know

“Knowing that my legacy could be that I just was the best version of myself that I could be and I think you have to go through those ups and downs to get there”

I'm very grateful for everything I've gotten to do. I think that I did defy the odds I was out on my own when I was 16. I did make it. I have no excuses at all you've given you've been given some good opportunities at this point But I went for him because of my curiosity and I think that if I can share that curiosity with more people If I can teach other people it's okay to lose if I can teach myself

It's okay to lose a little bit and and find the value in those losses as Learning experiences to get a few more wins then I'll take that all day long When you're competing and you want you want to impress somebody and you want somebody to be proud of you Who is it? Who are you thinking about? It's everybody. I feel they're pressure

It's a few hundred thousand people with all that emotion all that energy all of that all that stuff

That you just talked about like being on your shoulders

Are you enjoying this? It's my favorite thing I get to do which is why

“Ultimately I think I get so upset when I when I don't do as well as I thought I did”

I have the bet this is insane that this is part of my life and I think some people take that for granted

Because some people expect it some people think I deserve this right? I don't deserve this. I got lucky I'm probably I I got chosen by you

“I feel a responsibility and so any time that I feel like I haven't done my job”

Then I feel like I don't deserve to be here and that it could be go away Yeah, that gets in my head for sure. That's enough emotion for one day. Yeah, good job

“Thanks so much for watching everybody this has been an amazing interview with Michael lots of insight”

I will tell you that personally just just a very heartfelt interview I appreciate this canvas so much make sure you watch triple threat and of course if you like this podcast Please subscribe hit follow listen to us on the podcast wherever you listen to your podcast just tune in Bobby on the beat