5 Biggest Questions For Knicks Playoff Chances + Believe In Magic Hot Streak? & State Of Boston With Tatum's Return

The semester-by-tark laptop is often held in the internet. So it's a master's choice.

“I'm saying, you can say that you're a hero.”

You're a hero, right? But you don't understand. Exactly. It's a challenge for a job. Do you just do it with this story?

And if you work then you'll be able to do it. - Is it? - Save. This story. You're going to give it a go. Now you're going to try it.

Hello, welcome to the who-collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we're doing on Thursday evening. A little later on in this show, we'll have a special guest with your longtime listener of the podcast. Or if you're a legal eagle, you'll know who Alex Spiro is.

One of America's leading defense attorneys. Vince, you can never be.

He can never have too many elite defense attorneys on your side.

He's also a Boston Celtics mega fan. So here, it's going out with the Celtics. But anyway, joining us from the media room, at Little Seasers Arena, literally right now, as we're doing this the first quarter of 76 years distance is going on in the 76ers are comfortably ahead at this point.

About 7 points. But later on today, I bet Kate County Hill will be sitting right there where Vince could Will is sitting. - What up, though, Wendy? I'm trying to understand why you pointed out the defense attorney thing to me.

Do you think I'm going to need one soon? - That's correct. You're from Meteor from Detroit. You know, I just figure you never know. - Joining us from his home in Sacramento.

And I have to say it's his home, because every time we've had Anthony Slater, since he's been with us for six months now, it's been in his backyard. And I missed the backyard personally, but it is from his brand new home studio, Anthony Slater. - You're like the ninth person. Suddenly now that I don't have the backyard, everybody wants me to get it back.

And somebody said, you know, you can do you go take the picture of your backyard and make it the backdrop. - That would be amazing.

Oh my God, that would be amazing.

I would love that. We got to make that happen. - Next time I'm on TV with you, I'm going to do that just for you. - Oh my God, it's going to be great. Okay, so I thought we'd start Vince.

You had a story that posted on ESPN.com today. You know, we're going to spend the majority of this podcast taking a look at the Eastern Conference, particularly the Northeast, but we got some Orlando Magic stuff come naturally, which is the sentence I don't often say. But Vince, you had a story today, you just recently were on the West Coast with the Nicks.

You're back into right now. But the Nicks have had a bit of a deadbed choppy trip to the West Coast. That was going to vacate this time of year because there's various conference tournaments that move into the garden. And you, you know, for a team that's, you know, got a pretty good record,

“I think the fact that there's a story about the issues facing them is appropriate”

because as I talk to Nicks fans, Nicks fans are, there was a bunch of Nicks fans in L.A. this week and I ran into a number of them when I was in L.A. because the Nicks played two games in L.A. this week. I'd missed you by like 24 hours, Vince, by the way. There's, there's Agida.

There's, there, there's annoyance about the Nicks. And so you sort of tackled that. And as they tried to recover here, thought we would take a look here. And, you know, on a scale of one to ten, Vince, where do you think the Nicks are performing at this point in the season?

Right now, like, I think it's kind of an eye thing because when they were going out west, I felt like they played reasonably well in a lost Oklahoma city. And then they blew the doors off the Denver Nuggets,

who they always seemed to have a good time with.

And then you have back-to-back bad performance against the Lakers and Clippers. And then you beat the Utah Jazz, but they were playing two G-Legers. They were playing two G-Legers. You know, they just won the previous game. And I'm almost disregarding that.

I'm disregarding that. I can't know. Surviving advanced. I think, honestly, because in a three seed windy, the question I have for Nick Bands is, that you want to be on the line to plan to try it in a second round, who's been your bookie men, or do you want to play the Boston Celtics in the second round

with no one to improve Jason Tatum? So it's, that's the difference between a third seed and a fourth seed. So right now, I think my concern will be right out about, maybe out of six, Brian, just because some of their issues are coming out to bear. Jalen Brunton is the one guy that can create shots.

Like when you ask OGN and Obi or Mikhail Bridges disappeared for games at a time to do more than what they're capable of doing. You see the turnovers, you see the issues. And then when you ask Carl Towns to do more, then it becomes a little bit more on the clunky side.

And you're not sure if this is regression, like 30-year-old regression, or this is a guy who's not completely comfortable in the offense the way that he was comfortable in the time pivotal offense a year ago. And you know, defensively, they've had, they've been better.

“I think it's important to point out from Janeway 15 to now,”

that the best defense in the league, the last three games doesn't show that. But they've been good for a two-month sample size.

And you wonder if that's residue from time pivotal,

that's a residue from some of the doubts that people have had coming into the season. And it's not a small sample size. Exactly. No. Did I read it right in your story over the course of the season,

“even they have a better offense and a better defense than they rank last year?”

Is that right? Yeah. There are top 10 offense, top 10 defense. But everybody seems to canonize what they were under time pivotal because they were, you know, the comeback kids last year,

and they made this run to the Eastern Conference finals. But statistically, they are a better team. It's just that when the numbers bear it out, the eye test doesn't seem to support that. Or at least the eye test doesn't seem to support that against certain

competition in an Eastern Conference where everybody felt like it was the next for the taking.

Now they're just one of four good teams.

They're loads seem extremely low this year. Yes. You were on the West Coast with them recently, right? The two LA games were kind of embarrassing. I was in Northern California with them.

I just might have been January. Remember Mike Brown goes back to Sacramento and they lose to the kings. Then they go get blown out by the Warriors. Go home.

“Remember that a Maverick's game that, you know,”

I think they were like 15 point favorites. They were down by like 30 at some point. It felt that felt like such a low moment that I don't know. You can correct me if I'm wrong. Maybe that Tibito team last year didn't have the roles of the season as much

where it felt so loud. I don't know. Yeah. Wow. That is the word.

Yeah. But, you know, last year you had the Cavaliers were, however, you know, they were on pace for 65, whatever. Once you had the Celtics with Tatum like look, you know, as the defending champs, it felt at this time last season in my opinion.

Like there was less of a path for them to the finals than it does right now. But the fact that obviously that they wouldn't did what they did in the past probably generated the expectations. But it was interesting for me to read in your story that they actually like ranked better offensively and defensively.

Yet I agree that it's very angsty. What do you feel satisfied? Sure. Let's go to that boy. Carl Towns since the All Star Break 12 games.

12 games does not make a season, but, you know, 12 games. 21 points, 12 rebounds, 61% shooting, 48% on threes. And yet, after every game or most games, it feels like it's a referendum on Carl Towns.

That's pretty good.

“When did the question is, what are the expectations on Carl Towns?”

And it's almost like last year setting unfair bar where he was, you know, 25 and 12 and all NBA 13. It's almost like the season that he's having this year. To some degree as a whole is the season people expected out of him. Last year what they thought the glare of New York City was going to get to him.

And he played really well. And I'm with you. He looks more comfortable, post-alstar break. It's offensive rebounding numbers have been good. He's not shooting the three out of high volume, but he's shooting it well.

It's just when you look at him and Jalen Brunton as a corner called one too punch. It feels like he's been underwhelming. When my thing is, if you do you want Carl Towns, come in there in the offense in the 30 minutes or night that he plays. If so, be prepared for offensive files.

Be prepared for it to look ugly. Be prepared for it. The McHale Bridges in the OGN. And it almost gets lost within that because Carl doesn't know how he's not a post-up guy.

He does not have a very smooth offensive game. It's effective, but it's not the prettiest. Because he's just, it's like he's uncoordinated. He's not uncoordinated. It just doesn't look like he's coordinated.

And that leads to the offense of files. And every, all the other things that come with the Carl Towns experience. But I'm with you, Wendy. Because I know this is going to get clipped and everything else. Carl Towns has exceeded to large degree expectations.

Most all start break and he's trending positively. People just don't see it that way. Because, as you say, he lives in a world where his salary is what it was. The trade, you know, ushered in the reality that this team was ready to win a championship. His demeanor on the court, his files.

I mean, I should, I should bring up the files because that's fair. He's averaging, let's see here. How many times did he fall out? That would be my question. Let me see. Nice fall out. I know I fell that up.

The other night. He, he thought I had to get the clippers. In some like a loan. So there's been some times the season. It's like 6,000, 22 minutes or something. Yes. And this is a thing. Like there are times when he does this. And you people, they throw their hands up.

And I would just say this.

If you expect Carl Towns to be a first team, all in B.A. player,

who goes in there and, you know, rips out rebounds like he's Rodman and shoots threes like he's curry. And, you know, beats his chest and runs over people. He is not going to, he's going to let you down.

almost every night, and is going to be a second star.

And, you know, maybe he's a third team all in B.A. player in a good year. That's who he is. I mean, I mean, I mean, and that's a, you know, that's a good player to have. It's, it's in the glare of Janice. He's been an all star six times or something like that.

Like, yeah, Wendy, it's all in the glare of Janice. Like, let's be perfectly honest here. Right. This is all, both he and, uh, McKell bridges, what they traded by first round.

Picks work a Stevenate will say it at every single time that the New York nicks come up on first take. Those two players are under the harsh glare of that. Remember, I point this out all the time. Carl Anthony town said not get a contract extension

before to start the season because the nicks know to get a guy like Janice. That means big numbers have to go out. And McKell bridges got his extension.

You know, for 150 million dollars, whatever it was,

but he's also the guy that you depleted your draft assets for. For a player who may be your fourth best starter. And maybe on some nights, you're fifth best starter.

“And that's why a lot of the attention is so harsh on both of them.”

Because everybody has one to list of what we could have had with Janice. Maybe what we can have again with Janice, except we don't know if we're going to have that with Janice. And now we look at the eastern conference and what looked to be like our year. Looks like we are going to be lucky.

Maybe to get to the conference finals. If it all breaks right. Can I read you some stats? Sure. Just that boy.

Jalen Brunson since the All Star Break.

This is all covered kind of in your story, by the way. Just, you know, your story is the source material. Just to be clear. 12 games, just like Cat. 23 points, which is good.

But he's down from 27 before the break. 43% shooting, which is average down from 47% before. His assists are good. He's averaging eight again. He's averaging six before the break.

It's a bit of a slump. But, you know, this is something people are asking me about.

“They're like, how are they going to get Jalen out of his slump?”

So I ask you, is it a slump? And is it something to worry about? Or is it just, you know, just a slight down turn? I think it's a regression to the main. I think we all go back to the quote from last year about, hey,

Can Jalen Brunson at six feet one or six feet nothing be the best player on a team that wins an MBA championship. And we know the two players who had a class two. And the course of modern MBA history, that's Isaiah Thomas and Stephen Curry. And you're talking about two top three point guards of all time.

And it's unfair to hold Jalen Brunson to that particular standard. But that's the standard that Nick fans or the New York Nicks are holding themselves to if they plan on getting to June. And I think defensively he's been more active. And maybe it's a matter of only having so much bandwidth on both ends of the floor.

Secondly, the next offense has been better when Jalen Brunson is not common during the ball, dribbling it into dust.

“The problem with that when he is, who else is there to create shots?”

Who else is there to create shots? Who else is there to create offenses? Teams are starting to double him on the picking rolls. They're starting to get the ball out of his hands and asking God the guys to make shots. And Jalen Brunson and Mike Brown have to find counters to that to get him in the ball

in the space to wear multiple defenders aren't there. It's a work in progress, but I tend to believe that Brunson being the big game player that he is. That those numbers would trend upward even if I don't think he is a 30 point a night guy at his core. I think he should be around 24, 25 on the team like this when you got a guy like Carl Towns when you're not playing 40 minutes a night.

This feels like this is what the formula should be when he is just that people expect so much. And they're comparing everything to the ideal of what last season was as opposed to maybe the reality of what last season was. Is the tension we're talking about the lack of belief in them? You mentioned that there is maybe there's a belief inside the walls. It's not there outside the walls.

I mean, but you're around them. Clearly it's a fan race that's on edge. How does it feel internally to you when you're around them? Do they feel like they, you know, they have a run ahead of them? It's hard with those guys because not that they're up and down slater, but you know the tenor of a locker room. It can go from night to night depending on who's there.

Like when I was in LA for the Laker game, I see this guy walking in the locker room and shaking hands. And I'm like, who is this guy not barely get a glimpse of him? You know, who was Jim Dolan? Like imagine, you know what I mean? Like the glare of the owner popping into the locker room.

That owner, particularly is how we're deciding is it to see him on the road. Well, for what I don't travel with the team on the road, so it's hard.

That looked like James Dolan, is that Jim Dolan? Yeah, that's Jim Dolan. Really? For what? He's shorter than I thought. And that's not a shot at him. I was just like, if you only see a guy from the stands, you have no kind of a shot. No, no, no.

But I'm the tallest dude, and he was like hunched over. So I couldn't get a feel for, you know what I'm saying like his height. And that way, and when you're around seven footers, that's true. You know what I mean? It's hard for that. So I didn't mean it that way. It warps your sense of height when you're around all his dudes.

Don't aggregate me. I'm not taking a shot at James Dolan. No, I am saying his teeth are white. They're very white. You know, I hope I don't get banned for the garden for saying that.

Well, first off Carl Towsett's fall is fouled out seven times a series.

Second league in fouls per game, just fouled up on that. That's all right. Jackson did not provide me with that information. I'm going to like, like, Jared Jackson. You're right, Jared. Your wife's in conference version of that.

And he has to be able to play it half the damn season. And he's fouled out more. Hope you're recovering well, Jared. He had knee surgery recently. He's a absolutely great guy. Absolutely wonderful, wonderful, wonderful guy who rebounds the hell out of the ball.

“And sometimes makes you slap your head going, why did you foul?”

Why did you foul, Jared? But great guy, Mitchell Robinson, you highlight in your story as well. Mitchell Robinson is averaging this number is crazy. Vince, he's averaging eight offensive rebounds per 36 minutes. In fine.

That's one of the greatest often.

That's Moses Malone level offense of rebounding. Most Malone is one of the most unbreakable records in the in basketball. I would argue maybe even pro sports is Moses Malone's offensive rebounding record. Is it a record or is it a mark? Because we've been talking about records and marks the past two days on ESPNs.

Apparatists were treating 81 like 81's a record when 81 is just a very, very high mark. What you're talking about is a record. More who collected podcast after this? Is your record clear for the following? By action, quality and the smallest prize in hand.

For example, a few mini-cuttings are only 24-28. Or you only have one or two and you only have one. And now all records are produced in our videos and in the action app. Action, small prizes, big joy.

“Did you see what's bow said tonight before the game?”

I apologize to no one for nothing. I heard it. Period. You know what I reminded me of. I reminded me of Michael Corleone and the godfather too.

I can have my offer now Senator. Nothing. I hate to just pile on but like you guys know how if you liked this in the pot. I thought it was an awesome thing. We had Bam on MBA countdown yesterday.

Bam was still glowing. Loved it. I know you've been on TV talking about events but just for our listeners. Your position on the performance was. Let's get it on the record.

Go ahead. Go ahead. To me it was like a 60/6 point game masquerade and as an 83 point game. He probably should have been subbed out early fourth. You know I don't have this subbed out because of why.

I mean they were everywhere. Because the game was mid for it. Because the game was in hand. Exactly.

“You know not because you have to pay respects to Colby Bryant right.”

Yeah. No I mean like what if what if Bam came down on an ankle you know something like that in the fourth. Like I it'll look it is what it is. I'm just saying like I thought it was. I agree.

Three part of it was a little fake but I mean if Bam on a bioscore like 66 points and played three three and a half quarters.

It's basically what he did do and like that was incredible to me.

Absolutely agree. The last five minutes of the game was not. Again, the we are familiar with Vince. I will say this as I said this this morning on first take before it was hijacked. And all of the negative ways.

If you score 30 points in the first quarter, I'm not passing for the next week. Anybody got a problem with that. You never problem with that. Right. Like statistically it didn't look great.

It wasn't like he shot over 50% from the field. It didn't shoot an enormous number from three. But when you got it going early in your teammates keep feeding you and you got four yet to have. When you get 60 after three and you get 71 with like nine minutes left. Yeah, you go for it.

And when the wizards because they're the Washington wizards. The side to do all the crazy town things then air exposure replies and kind. Like it looked like at a moment before Bam got to 81. He was trying to take himself out of the game and suppose leaving a man. So at that point, what do you do?

And you tell them to stop you.

They put three guys on it and it looked like a clown car from a cartoon show. What they will bump in each other's heads and they had no choice but to follow them. What is both the missed the free throws? Do I remember right the Kobe before like a maybe a week or two before you had a one. He had like 62 and three quarters.

That's right. I think it was something. Yeah. 62. Yeah.

“And so I think I better check this or maybe Jackson and check me on this.”

I think Phil. I think Phil asked him if he wanted to go in and go for the record and he said no. He said, no, we don't need it. Like we got the game in hand. And I think Brian Shaw told this story.

And I don't remember who read who I read who told the story. So I'm not trying to hijack it. I just don't remember in this minute. So all do respect whoever wrote it. Whoever wrote the story initially from Brian Shaw.

Brian Shaw, like second guest of decision and told Kobe like,

come on man, you got to try to go get 70 at the least. And he's like, no, he goes, I'll get it another day. I'll give it another day and like it turned out like within a couple of weeks. He got the 81. I've seen various versions of this cover in the Warriors.

I've seen Clay Thompson get into 60 and three quarters this. So Clay Thompson story. Well, he said we're the ones. He scored 62 in 30 29 minutes. Yeah.

Okay. 6 the on 11 dribbles. I remember that one. So you know, I'm sorry to interrupt you. Then Steve Kerr, like, sort of his quote, we just heard Sposk.

Well, Steve Kerr's quote was they said Dean Smith was the only guy who could hold a Jordan under 30.

Well, I have the only guy who can hold Clay under 80. That's what he says. Yes. But also Clay Thompson when he got the 14 threes in Chicago to break Steph's record. The record, this still stands 14 threes in a game.

The last like three of those threes were in a 40 point blowout. Chicago at a pretty embarrassing time for the bulls. We're like Steve Kerr was like, looking down at Fred Roberts. Like apologizing as the warriors are like thirstily getting Clay Thompson. Like triple team threes to get to 14 to break Steph's record.

So it's like, you know, and I don't think there was much of an outcry in the aftermath of like, Oh, can you believe they did that for Clay? So there's like, given take with them. Can I just ask a question that I don't have the answer to? I'm just going to sort of a rhetorical, but feel free to answer it.

Under what circumstances for Kobe and Laker fans would Kobe's record? Would it been okay to break Kobe's record? It's not a record. It's just a mark. Okay.

I'm sorry.

“I think that back under what circumstances would it have been deemed acceptable for someone to exceed Kobe's 81 point mark?”

It depends on who say Luca at this. Right. Like let's say LeBron scored, let's say LeBron scored 82 points. Oh, Jesus. Like in short of that short of the 82nd point coming, like in the fourth quarter of a tied game seven.

How about the game winner got him to 82? You're trying to think it's perfect. I'm just saying, like, I'm not even 100% sure that there would be universal praise for that. I'm just saying that there's universal praise for nothing in modern society. Well, that's what I'm saying, and especially for Kobe, who the fans of the Lakers,

guard Kobe's legacy, like it's a family member. And so what I'm saying is that this was absolutely an imperfect event. I don't think there was, I don't think a perfect event is possible. I don't even think of the Laker. Like short of the guy making the 82nd point to win a championship at the buzzer.

I'm not for the Lakers. I'm not sure the Laker fans would have accepted the, you know, easily the record bay exceed or the mark being exceeded. You know what it is? It's for them they hold on to it. As if, like you said, they guard it like it's a family member.

And they feel like if it's exceeded, then it will be somehow forgotten or erased. Like I saw Ice Cube Sun, actor O-Shay Jackson saying that the league conspired to kid Palma pass Kobe's record. Because they want to erase Kobe's legacy within the NBA to which I say why. Like, but these people, the Kobe stands, not the general fans, but the Kobe stands. The unreasonable people, they can't be bargained with.

Right. That's exactly my point. They have no great, great job.

“I believe they're choosing Tuesday night wizards heat on league pass by the way.”

Yeah, the scripted thing that was, that was beautiful. By the way, in terms of, like, respect and everything like that. Can I ask Vince, where do you come down on Dejonte Murray crossing over Jamal Shed and then barking at him? And then his team, the Raptor is doing nothing about it. Where are you at on that? Can you consider that Dejonte Murray is coming off of this Achilles and all and all that?

My general thing is, maybe there was some trash talk between the two before them, but I hear that Jamal Shed is not that type of dude. And secondarily, what your team made said. If somebody's standing over your guy, regardless of the circumstances, maybe it's because I'm hearing Detroit and Isaiah Stewart will do more for less.

Like WSD, what would beef stew do? You don't want to know the answer to those questions. Like even just me, if someone's standing over a friend of mine and we open a dog what you're doing. This is a pickup game and I'm going to share what I have proud. This is he's in the league to defend guys like that.

That's why he's in the league. Can we talk about the pelicans quick? I mean, they're winning, right? They're winning with their veterans, which I understand why they're doing it. They didn't want to pivot away from a lot of their guys at the deadline.

They don't have their pick, right? They're not incentive to tank. But they're also like Jeremiah Fears and their Queens minutes are going down and down and down. I just, like they're a curious off season team to me.

“Because if they go on this mini run right now with Dejonte Murray, I think impressively come back.”

I mean, you mentioned it right there, but like he's a good off this Achilles. Are they just going to like stay in, they're going to be a 27-win team going to this summer. But be like this last month was great. They're going to ride it out again. I just, it's very curious.

Well, yeah. So let me just, let me just say like if you look at like, they've, they've gone on this streak where they've won seven of 12. I guess, you're seven and now seven of 10, seven and 10, seven and three. So if you look at the wins, warriors, which twice against the Jazz, kings, wizards, like, you know, they're, you know, okay.

So I was with the, the pelicans last week in LA.

I talked to some of their people and basically here's the deal.

When Zion and Jonte Murray got healthy, there was an organizational question. Like, what are we doing here? And the mandate that came down from the top is we are trying to win. They don't control their draft pick. So the mandate that came down was we are trying to win.

And they had watched Jeremiah Fears and their Queens start for 40 something games. And it resulted in non-winning basketball, particularly on the defensive end. And by the way, that is not meant to be a slam and a shot at those guys. You are not going to win with two rook starting two rookies just about any time in NBA history.

Okay. That is not, you know, it is what it is.

“And so basically they, you know, they're like, okay, you want to win, right?”

Yes, we want, you know, well, front office, we want to win. Okay. Well, then we're taking the rookies out of the starting lineup and putting in the veterans, which for a while was the Andre Jordan. He started multiple games.

And I, you know, the way it was said to me is even if, you know, their Queen sits there for the first five minutes of the first quarter.

And watch is how the Andre Jordan X, you know, I think Brago said this on the record. James Brago essentially. He said, if Jeremiah Fears can just watch, it's Jeremiah Fears and, and Derek Queen can just watch the first five minutes of the first quarter and third quarter. And watch how the Andre Jordan is executing the game plan defensively. And then John Jordan doesn't play again.

Then it will have done his job. I think that part of it's okay. Like the player development side, I'm not going to go over the top. Like, oh, Fears only got, you know, 14 minutes. He should have been playing across somewhere.

My bigger question is, at the deadline, they could have got a hall for tray Murphy. They could have got a hall for her, Jones. Maybe if they'd dangled Zion, you know, like, they could have like really leaned into a rebuild. They have a lot of very coveted pieces, winning pieces that I think would net some really nice draft capital. And they decided not to do it. You know, you talked to teams that talked to them.

Well, if it's hard to tank when there's eight other tankers, you know, I mean, to me, it's less of a tank and more of like a strike while the iron is hot. And while tray Murphy's values at his highest, okay, fine, you don't do that. My question would be, as I watch what's going on is, are they going to have this fake run? Probably I would say fake run over the next month, month and a half, not make the plan because they're nowhere near it.

Go into the office and go, okay, we had our veterans together. We're winning, you know, like, mix and then just not trade those guys again this summer, which I'm not even saying it's wrong or right, but it's risky, just like it was risky.

“I think not to move off Murphy, like Murphy might have like, what would he have got it in deadline?”

Well, but no, I think they were for more right. I think what happened was the teams that might have been interested in tray Murphy, weren't willing to come off of the assets that in the world and so it's actually asking for it. I think it was in reverse, I think. I mean, I heard New Orleans would basically say, no, no, no, like, well, let's not talk about it.

But I also think Joe Dumares, like, doesn't want to do a midseason trade. I think I think, I think, I think he kind of put that out there. Like, look, we're not going to do a midseason trade. We're going to stay here.

So look, here's the thing, when you got eight tankers, like, like, Atlanta.

Atlanta, they've been doing pretty well here. They've won six in a row. I don't know if they're playing tonight. Maybe I'll jinx them. Part of what's going on is Atlanta ain't tankin' in the eastern conference.

We're all the teams below them are. And they're not tankin' 'cause they don't control their pick. Well, number one, they, number one, they set that situation up themselves with a trade that I know has been questioned many times on this podcast. Number one, number two, my bigger question.

My question is what I said, which is the summer. What's happening now, which is then beating these, you know, flimsy teams right now,

“is that going to make them hit fast forward in the summer?”

And I don't know how, do y'all think that's a good idea. 'Cause we're not talking about tankin' in the summer. We're talking about maybe shedding some of these pieces and re-flowing. You get points later, you're making a good point. Okay.

It's reasonable point. I do want to come back to Fences story. We were talking about Mitchell Robinson. Yeah. I'm sorry.

I always do this, Jack said no, I always take this.

That was fine, my fall honestly. No, no, I liked it. Don't look at the camera. Mitchell Robinson is averaging eight, eight offensive rebounds per 36 minutes. It's like, it's like, I saw somebody tweeted it.

I'm sorry if I can't give you credit, my mind is going. It's like more than almost every team. How much they average per 36. But you point out here two things. Because I'll tell you this, Joe Mozula is pretty good coach.

It's a pretty good coach. And the Joe Mozula decided that the most important thing in the series with the next last year was to get Mitch Robinson off the court. Said a lot. Or maybe at the most important thing, but at the high level on their game plan.

And so you point out two things, Vince. Number one, that in this plan to keep Mitch Robinson healthy, which is worked. They're not playing them that many minutes.

“And how is that going to translate to the playoffs?”

And the second thing is there was hack and Mitch going on at a high level in last year's playoffs. That was when he shot 68% from the foul line. This year he shooting 39% from the foul line. So while Mitch continues to be like the premium X factor in the eastern conference. What about the conditioning for the playoffs?

And what about that free throw situation that you bring up in this story? It's the double-ledged sword, right? Because the nicks are one of those teams that they love to offensive rebound and kick it out in spray. Like that's one of Mike Brown's tenets. Spray back outside and get open shots.

We know that a lot of times it's the best time to get three points shots. It's because the deep insist in scrumbo mode. You can't track guys. And they have a strategy with that.

The problem is that Mitch Robinson gets an offensive rebound.

But before he even kicks it out, they're going to foul. That's about the curse. They're going to foul him and foul him hard. Because he's getting the ball out of his hands. He's not trying to go up for a shot or anything like that.

It's they're going to have to be very judicious and how they use him in the postseason because he's so valuable. And even on deep and like he is such a big body. He is a massive human being amongst massive human beings. It's almost like for every question there's an answer. And then similarly there's for every answer.

There's a question. And that is the duality of this New York next season. Number one, 39% is crazy. Uh-huh. But two.

Like you know, you can if you just pick up fouls and play out series and game two. You get three first half fouls on Jalen Durand. And you go one is six from the line. Like you still did a great job. You know, you got you got some of these guys in foul trouble.

So he's a massive factor. And if they're going to if they're going to hack a Robinson him off the floor, that shows you what type of factor he is. Because they don't want him on the floor. Well, Sunday, I wish you point out the warriors are at the garden. Uh-huh.

Yes.

“Are you doing this whole seven game road trips later?”

So it's a six gamer. Uh, I was waiting on this step up day and talking to people and deciding I was going to do the whole six. The gamer if Steph is on it, but Steph is not on it. So I will be joining in Boston and doing the last four. Okay. Sorry, you won't see him there, Vince. I don't know if you're going to be there.

I'll be there. I'll be there. So the stuff update is what and the warriors update is what they're playing. Um, the wolves tomorrow at home, the wolves get back when they just had a rough couple of days in our way. Uh, they've fallen below 500. Yeah.

For the first time since like December, uh, it's.

It's a little bit of a kick the can down the road. It's the third straight time. They've done a 10 day reevaluation, which rules him out another five games. This absence will now stretch to 20 games. There's a massive chunk of the season. He got this issue popped up.

Remember when they were in Minnesota, they had the baseball series. The first game got postponed. I was January 24th with with with the unrest and Minneapolis. Uh, he did the individual workout. That day is everything in Minneapolis is going on around him.

And during a workout is knee swelled up and started hurting. Uh, played through it a couple of games. But then against Detroit on January 30th, he leaves in the third quarter after hitting a and one floater. Uh, and they just decide this was like five six games before they all start break. A shut them down probably till they all start break.

Get this runners knee is what they call it right. There's no structural damage. They've MRI at a few times. Uh, but it, when he works out, including during all start weekend, it just hasn't responded well.

It's swelling is dull pain.

Um, and, you know, they shut it down out of the break.

And now again, it's going to be it's going to reach up to 20 games.

“And I think that if they were, if Jimmy Butler was around and they were trying to like muscle their way into, you know, a top four type C,”

if it was a different type of situation with different realistic goals ahead of him in the season, I think that they'd be throttleing down a bit more. But next season has become the season in this final Steph era. Uh, and I don't think at all they want to jeopardize that. And this is from what I gather in injury that, you know, they fear if you do put him back on the court.

Uh, and he's not quite ready. It could, you know, re-injury, reactivate whatever you want to say. So they know they're going to be in the nine ten at this point. I mean, I, I should say this. They know they're going to be in the play and they've known they're going to be in the play and bracket for a while.

If you look at what's going on in the play and right now, though, the clippers are holding. Can I just say in the last three days, the clippers have moved above 500. Yeah. And the warriors have moved below and therefore the clippers have moved ahead. I'm just going to say, I don't know the health.

I don't know about the aspiration. I wish I could say I've got strong reporting on the aspiration thing.

I do not, you know. I mean, I obviously know what's been investigated and what Pablo Tory has reported and others. I don't know what's going to, I don't know what the resolution is going to be. I just don't, you know, there's a ton of talk about there's a ton of rumors. Nothing that I would say I can substantiate.

So I just don't know. There's some stuff with the clippers. I just don't know. I don't know whether Kauai Leonard is going to be healthy. What I do know is this. The clippers are now in eighth place.

And don't let them get to sixth. What the healthy Kauai. Because and they're way back from six or six cans back from six. I do not believe they can make that up. Okay.

Yes, six is a lot right now. But I will also tell you they've got the 30siest schedule. Well, it's a good point.

“And again, I'm saying this more and like the warriors lens here and why I'm telling you they're trapped now in the nine ten because I think six out of the next eight.”

Clippers games are against like lottery teams. Whereas the next five for the warriors again, all without Steph Curry are Minnesota. And then they go on this road trip that you mentioned that's nicks. And then it's at Wizards. Okay, but then it's at Boston at Detroit at Atlanta.

There in the next week or two, they're probably going to end up being like four five games back in the clippers. So, you know, I can go a little Brian Windhorst right now. I can start you know, booking play in hotels. They're going to play the Portland Trailblazers. Nine ten West play in week.

It doesn't need the blazers warriors in the night. The blazers are going to be on the road. I have no, well, I shouldn't say that. No, blazers are going to be in the nine ten game. I agree.

Yeah, I don't know which of those two teams is going to be nine ten is going to be close. I don't know. Yes, the sons are struggling right now. I'm sorry. The sons of one three in a row.

But the sons. Um. To tell you about the sons could move out of the play and they're right on the wolves heels. They've got a they've got a five game gap between seven and eight.

“So the sons are like, hey, can we get into this top six?”

The clippers have 17 games left and our six games out. That would be a miraculous. They would probably have to do something like go 15 and two. Right. Right.

It would have to be something. But they've gone on hot streak. Yeah. But traded James Harden traded if he chooses to watch. Like, I know like right now the playing well.

Math, right. And I think they're going to beat us. I know. Bad teams in the near future. But I'll say like that was them.

I, you know, completely, you know, I guess pulling their ceiling out or like lower in their ceiling for the season. So I don't fear them that much in the six. I know how well-coised playing right now.

But they was at their second and fourth best player.

You know, basically they traded away the deadline. Like, I don't know. I don't see it in a playoff series. All right. Well, um.

Right now also before I let Vince go back out to the game. The pistons are up by nine at the half. It's half time in Orlando, the magic or being in the wizards. Um, the wizards are trying to, uh, you know, defend their honor. Uh, is they showed Orlando.

What is that? I mean, I will say this out of you. TSN, the, um, that could be a Canadian. Yeah. Yeah.

Sam Mitchell. Yes. The former coach of the Raptors was on the, the, the raptor's post game show the other night. And he, like the dolphins, like the 72 dolphins. Every year on the last undefeated team loses, they pop champagne.

Because Sam has been long derided for not being more aggressive on Kobe back in 2006. And Sam was enjoying, uh, Bams, uh, cracking the Kobe mark. But, um, anyway, the, uh, the magic had a, uh, a nice quality win over the calves on Wednesday night. And, um, um, you know, at the risk of, uh, you know, having Jackson have to edit this out if the wizards beat them. The magic are doing some things.

Like, they were like, he's still progressing and he'll be, we'll give you an update coming soon.

So it's a high ankle sprain. I don't know. It was something that he was, it didn't feel like he was closer. And then, I don't, like, I don't know if they said set back, but it felt a little bit. He's had set back, see multiple setbacks of this injury.

Um, since the All Starbreak, the, uh, Orlando magic, who, which often pointed out have not been out of the bottom 10 in offense in 14 years, 20 if they're lower in offense for 14 consecutive years. Since the All Starbreak, they are 8 and 3 as a team. We'll see if they win tonight would go 9 and 3 and they have the 8th best offense in that stretch. And the number 3 defense in that stretch.

They've been good defensive team for a couple years now, but 8th best offense. And if you, you know, watching that game last night, you know, Ben Caro has, we keep getting these updated numbers from Joel Glass. Let me give the updated numbers coming into tonight's game. Joel Glass magic, uh, since the All Starbreak,

the magic have an offensive rating of 117.8, which is tied for 7th defensive rating. So 117.3, which is tied for 3rd. And obviously, Palo, we've talked about Palo a lot. His, his stats. So, but forget about the stats.

I'm going to move off the stats for a second.

When you watch magic play right now, and you watch them pressure the rim, and you watch them go in transition, and you watch Des Bane. And I'll tell you one thing in this era of nobody hit in 65. Des Bane is not missed a game knock on wood for Des. And he is coming, he's starting to, you know, when he's not throwing the ball at people,

which it's not that often, but he is, you know, it's often said to me, or it has been said to me over the years, that it takes longer for offense to come together than defense to come together. That everybody just assumes that when you bring in a great offensive player, then it just clicks, but historically, it takes longer offensively.

“And I think the calves are actually having that growing pain a little bit right now.”

The other record with James Harden is good, but if you actually watch them, their offense is not then as potent since he got there. And I think that's part of a learning curve that they are dealing with. The magic with Bane, and also with this alignment, are coming into their own. And, you know, I'm going to talk about the clippers, you know, watch out.

Well, the magic have moved out of the play and zone. They've moved into fifth. The raptors have lost six of 10. The raptors really have not fared well against that. They can't beat the teams.

Yeah, they can't beat the teams at all. They're still seven against over 500, but they've slipped all the way to seventh now. And the magic are in fifth, and, you know, BPI, I don't really pay them much attention to BPI. But BPI says that calves magic is going to be likely going to be a four or five matchup. So I just point out, Vince, that the magic are showing some teeth on offense.

And that's a significant development in the east.

“Look, I think it goes back to Paula Bane, Carolyn, Jamal, mostly having...”

We'll say war awards, that would be a bit strong. But Bane, Carol, after they lost to Detroit, Bane, Carol talked about us, not, you know, we didn't make adjustments. And Jamal, mostly said, they just played harder than us. And since then, it felt like a dam has broken where maybe some of that underlying tension can play itself out. And people can clear the air. And like you said, Desmond Bane, figuring things out in this offense,

where we looked at in the offseason, a lot of us thought where Detroit is or Lando would be because of this acquisition, because of assumed help with Bane, Carol and Wagner being on the floor together at the same time. Like it's starting to come around. I will say this about the heart and thing. So I was talking to an executive about trade deadline moves, teams who didn't make them.

And he said to me, what trade deadline moves have actually worked. And I thought about it. And I said, Rashid Wallace, of course, 2004. They came back with Tombow, 2001, '76ers. They got to the finals. They came back for The Old Rat Lift. Paul Gassal, which wasn't the trade deadline move I don't think.

But it was December.

“It was the earlier season. I think it was at the end of the season.”

It was midseason move. And it was like, yeah, four of those instances or whatever was maybe was one more. It's like four of those instances out of 20 X amount of years. Like these things don't happen that often, even if it seems like all of us can play fantasy GM.

So the point about the hard and thing was if Harden falls into that category, it's what you talked about when the de-expected struggle, especially for a player who has as much control the offense as Harden does. You know, not that he commandeers anything, but he is the system.

This is not exactly comparable because of the dynamics of that trade, but look at the Kevin Durant trade a couple years ago. I mean, they took their whole team and turned it sideways. But that Durant trade de-fenix like that didn't work out. You know, short term or a long term.

But you know, that's, I mean, you know, Durant's never said I am the system,

but you could say about Durant, he's the system. Wendy, can I detour you one more time before this party?

And now we focus on the pod. No, it's, I watched that magic. Caves game last night. The one we're measuring magic nice when Bane looked great. But I see Keon Ellis hitting like three, three,

and like late in the fourth quarter looked great. What do you play 30 minutes? Yeah, he's played 30 minutes a couple times in a row. Yeah, I mean, you're always locked in on the castle, you know, on the blow by blow.

How good has he been? He's been exactly what the calves thought they were getting from a defensive, you know, he's a defensive playmaker. You know, he gets his hand on a ton of balls. He creates steals.

He creates fast break opportunities. You know, defensive playmakers are kind of hard to find. It's kind of what I'm asking because like he was very extremely available at the deadline for anybody in the league.

And you know, the Kings just never got there, you know, asking him prides of a first round pick.

They obviously ended up pivoting and basically using him to dump the dentist root or contract. And he's always been like coaches have never trusted him the way that front offices and scouts love them, at the local fans and Sacramento loved them. But you know, it's obviously not a great look for the Kings to basically get off them. And he's like, you know, closer at times for for an Easter conference team.

And I just, I don't know, I've just watched it last night. Well, I will say this. He's been, I think he's been in this could be. I'm pretty sure Bobby Marks briefed me on this because, but I think he's trade, I mean, extension eligible. He's yes, February 9th. He was extension eligible.

Part of the reason the Kings had to trade him. Even though the Kings haven't signed him yet. Yeah. So, what I mean, what does what that tells you is, you know, that he thinks he's playing himself in a bigger deal.

“And maybe that's why he didn't have quite the, you know,”

I guess, market that the Kings were hoping he would at the deadline. But like, this guy was really available to a lot of teams. And you mentioned it defensive playmaker deflection King steals all that. And I just, you know, he might end up being a really real factor in the playoffs. And I think it could look bad on the league in a general that nobody went at grabbed him.

And then also like the Kings, but that's that's a deeper story about the Kings. Just losing him for nothing, basically. All right. Well, thank you very much. Vince, you got to go get to work. By the way, Jackson went and found it for me.

I found it for me that Brian Shaw story was an interview with Melissa Rowland. Who I believe was with Fox at the time, but she is now. Can't wait to tell us when you post. So, more journalism jobs positive. Yes.

All right. Thanks, guys. We will be talking to you guys soon. And have a great weekend. More who collected podcast after this. Okay.

Always special when we have Alex Spiro,

one of the nation's leading trial attorneys. He's coming from an undisclosed location with an undisclosed client list. Just for fun. Just Google them. Just Google them.

Alex, I'm just going to say this.

“There's a guy who I know in the NBA who, how should I put it?”

You know who he is. He's a security consultant. Okay. He's a fixer. And he wants described his job to me as Brian. They call me in when it's 4th and 20.

Well, they call Alex in when 4th and 20 didn't work. So, I'll just leave it at that as represented a number of NBA players. But most important, Alex, and the way that you want to be introduced and the way that you want, you identify yourself is a die hard Celtic. Not a Celtic fan.

You're a Celtic. And not only that. Like, I know you know what's going on with the team. But anyway, welcome to our humble podcast yet again. Good to see you guys.

I tune in every time. So, it's good to see you, you know, face to face. Yes. Okay. Now, we are doing this before they the Celtics play the Thunder Tonight. Jason Tatum is sitting out tonight.

The reason we're having this now is because you are no nonsense, man. You really, you know, no nonsense business. You have insight and insight information. I want to know what you think about the way Tatum looks and what you think about where the Celtics are. Now that we've seen Tatum play a few games.

I'd like him to play tonight, so I could see them be to top team. You know, we lost to the spurs. There was a questionable backseat driving technical value. You might have seen, well, sure the wolves. Can I just say real quick?

Because I'm famous for ripping the, you are correct.

The referee who called the first technical did not call the second technical.

The referee that called the first technical Tyler Ford, who was better in our podcast. We are Tyler Ford defenders here having said that. I have not talked to Tyler, but I will just say, I don't think Tyler would have thrown jailing out. It was a younger junior referee who came in to quote unquote,

"Have Tyler's back that threw jailing brown out of the game." I do not think it was the way it should have gone down. Joe Masula after the game compared it to like the principal, not letting the assistant principal do his dirty work. I actually think Joe was right.

“And I think what you just said was right.”

Having said that, counselor, jailing's got to control himself more in that situation. Sure, I think we could have won that game. So we lose to the spurs, we lost to the wolves, we lost to the nuggets. I would have liked to have seen Tatum and the full roster play tonight because I think we need to win like that.

We're losing record to the next, losing record to the pistons.

I think we're going to the finals.

I've got the hotel room book. You know, so I'm ready. I'm ready to go. Yeah, you've got the Ritz book. I've got the courtyard booked, buddy.

The hotel room booked where? I went bailing Boston. Oh, yeah, I mean, we're not predicting who they're going to play. You know, I will pick a Western conference team. I mean, let me know when you book hotel rooms in the west.

And then we'll talk from playing the field still. But yeah, I like the Celtics. Tatum look great. And for a few games back, he looks great. The team looks great.

They're focused. And I think he fits in perfectly. And they designed it as such. And when you talk to the team, you know, the culture and just the fight that they have.

It just rings out from all the way through from ownership all the way down.

“And so I think they built something special here.”

And I think they're going to go to the fun. But so new ownership situation now. So new, you know, do you have you had detected any differences in the way The Celtics are operating? I know Wickre's pocket still around.

But it's new ownership now. Yeah, Bill's great Wick is remained in his spot. And everybody is just says the world of Wick. Brad is a rock. My experience grade.

I mean, you see the culture reminds you a little bit of the Patriots Dynasty, the culture there. And you see it at this with the stars. I mean, TDM, the amount of goodwill in respect the TDM has around the league for the way he came back.

The mom of the mentality, the way people are talking about him. You can see how well respect that he is both inside the team and out. And then even little things like when Cornet comes back and everyone's cheering for him. You can just see that this is a special organization.

And I think they're, I think they're prime for another several final rounds. I would agree with that. Now, let me just tell you that I'm going to tell you what the scouts are now saying to me because they've now watched Tatum for a little bit.

And nothing that I'm about to say is surprising. Okay. It's not a criticism. Also, you know, I think Tatum's return has gone as well as they possibly could have imagined it and drawn it up.

And I think he looks great. And I'm also on the record many times. And I will just do it again here saying that Jason doesn't have to be ready to go in the highest level today. He needs to be ready to go in the highest level six weeks from now.

When the second round begins, which is why I think they're going to need

him on the most. But the scouts will tell you the scouts who've watched him will tell you that absolutely you can tell how he protects the right leg. And that, well, I mean, I, I pointed out that his first shot against the mavericks we could go.

He sort of did, I, I called it a step back, but I was corrected by an expert, the guy named Robert Oliver, who emailed me, who is a PhD researcher in bio mechanics. And he said that it is not, it was not a step back. He was a, was called a false step.

And I'll maybe learn more about that. Nonetheless, I felt there was a little bit symbolic that he showed that he would push off the right leg.

“That's what I'm having said that the scouts say,”

look, the right leg is weaker. And he sometimes is protecting it. And, you know, some teams, they, I talked to a scouts who said that he thought some teams were being a little charitable. The first couple of games, it's not attacking him and that they will

attack him more on that side. So what I'm saying is that I expect us to continue to learn and watch about how Jason is and this, it's very much to be a process. >> Yeah, I think that's right by the same token.

He doesn't have to be, you know, the first team to take him of last year that Jalen has ascended to being a first team, all NBA type score or just straight up first NBA. First team all NBA. And Jalen is surveying the court.

Some of that's the injury, some of it's psychology, some of it's that he's been able to watch the team for so long. And if he ends up in more of a triple double rule unless of a, I'm going to attack every play rule. I think that that may be a blessing in disguise.

It may lead to less your turn, my turn kind of stuff that he and Jalen can do, so there's some benefit to that. And then listen, look at the top scores and league. People like Jalen, Luca, you don't have to necessarily have explosiveness to find the angles.

Jason has incredible footwork.

He's also a big six, 10. He shoots high, release point. He's going to be able to score and see the court. You can see him snatching those rebounds and just think about his who we used to replace him.

I mean, he's a huge upgrade. Who did better at the turn of the trade deadline than getting Jason paid him back even 85%. Absolutely. You know, I think they look great.

The team chemistry, the culture, and I don't see why they can't come out of the use.

“And I think they will come out of these.”

All right. Let me ask you as an officer of the court. Let me ask you this. If you were turning, if you had a vote from VP, what would your MVP ballot look like?

I want to see how impartial you can be here. Let's see. Yeah, what's Pauli market saying these days? I mean, I think you've got a factor. Pauli market should follow the Bontham's poll because Bontham's

is, you know, research has routinely proven to be predictive. We should do the Bontham's poll in market poll. We should sort of merge it to. But I don't know. Maybe judge the order for that.

In games play.

You say that tonight, Victor was ruled out of the game with

an ankle soreness.

“And he only has, I think you can miss four games.”

So I don't know how significant that is. But yes, of course, you, you can, you can include that in your answer. Like, um, but as of today, you know, Shay and Victor have, have not missed games to the level where they would be ruled out of Victor and Shay are both sort of somewhat close.

Yeah, I think it's got to be Shay Victor and then Cate and Jail with excellent ballot. I respect, I respect that ballot. Let me ask you as long as I'm asking you to route to give me a ruling.

Give me a ruling on Ben Matabio's 83 points. Oh, it's great. It was great. I'm not saying that there's culture after Celtic's culture.

The heat would be right up there.

And he's just an awesome player. And I love watching him play and, you know, let him go. Once he's got 70 late in the game, let him go, let him try. And it was without hitting many three is was a hell of a game. So the Celtics, their, their team is very, very different from

the last two years. You know, if you go back and look really since 20, it's sort of the 22 to 25 era when they made two finals. And then last year, I thought they were going to the finals. I had my hotel, my hotels booked in Boston for months and months.

Probably longer than I had in Books, Oklahoma City. But they're very, very different team now. They're, they're, you know, their culture is the same. They're, you know, their style of play is the same. They're still want to shoot a ton of threes.

They still focus on low turnovers. But this is a very different team. And you're going to be relying now. Look, the basis of the Celtics is they have three two way, awesome two way guys, you know, the jays and Derek White play.

Both ends of the court perimeter players ball handlers can defend great. All three of them can hit a clutch shot. And then obviously Peyton Pritchard is he has his role. But you are going to be relying in the playoffs on role players, who have not done it before largely.

I don't consider Peyton Pritchard. I mean, he has a role player, but I'll put him in almost in a starter quality. Do you believe that these guys who haven't done this before will be able to deliver like those role players to the last few years who prove themselves.

Al Horford. Poisingos when he was healthy. You know, guys like that, do you, do you believe that this team has that,

“that build out of the roster that you need to win three playoffs six?”

Yeah, and I think we're skipping over Cato. I'm think we're skipping over the fact that because of Pausingos's health and Al, you know, nothing as young as he once was that you got it up created center. You've got this inspiration of Peyton coming back this way and a culture

that cultivates confidence and excitement amongst the role players. They've got a lot of role players. They're deeper than they have been in a decade. So that, that counts for something. And I think the team will pull the right strings and keep the right

guys in at different times. And they play this spread, Duke, college, like basketball. And they've got enough to weigh players that that I just think the other teams and east have weaknesses that they did not solve at the break. They did not solve at the trade deadline.

And that the Celtic should, should win. You saw I jumped on this, should win. They should win. Okay, clear, you know, Tatum is coming back. I don't think it's a runaway.

I mean, pit the pistons are tough. The nicks have what they need. The cabs are very good.

“I think the Celtics match up well with the calves.”

Yes. And they see the wing strength of the Celtics. Show really shows up with the calves. Yeah. I think the pistons are missing the score.

You know, need one more score. And so then you're left with, you know, are we talking about a mix, Celtics, Eastern Conference Finals. And boy will that be a hell of a runback. Has been said for well over a year.

The nicks have invested enormous amounts of assets and money in building their team to beat Boston. They built their team with strong wings to do it. And it was, I mean, I think they beat this, I was somebody who very strongly believed

that the Celtics would win that series last year. I even believe the Celtics would win it when they were down to, but also very much believed that the nicks flat out took it. And that it was going to be 3-1. And that they were going to win even if Tatum hadn't gotten hurt.

Because I think the nicks proved that the way they played could work against Boston. That still exists. You know, they are still even with a different coach. They still have those weapons.

I still mystified the way Gaines wanted to went. But the fact the game that they won both of them sort of, and the way that they, you know, won game 4.

And then we're so powerful in game 6.

Like it validated that stretch.

You know, the nicks have that.

“We were unexplainably lax at the beginning”

and the game Tatum got hurt. I mean, you don't, you can't tell me a better game played by a player at recent years or a harder game played. He was unstoppable and so broke.

But they were going to lose that game.

Right. I mean, I know we were, it was down to the wire. But his, his performance was something else. And any that I don't think given what's happened in the last ten months with his comeback, they will be lax going into this. But again, Tatum's, Tatum's health is key.

And OG has been playing great. I mean, he's really their wing that can guard. I think their other players are a bit small for Jalen and, and, and Tatum. And so it's really OG versus a little bit. That's true. That's why they got him.

“That's why they, that's why they paid on the max.”

Not just what they traded for, it's why they paid on the max. All right, Alex. Well, am I going to have you back on? I'm going to have you back on after the conference finals. And we're going to see whether your confidence was accurate. I do think Boston probably if I had to rank the percentages.

I think I would put, I think, you know, I would put Boston as the highest percentage. Maybe something like in the high 20, maybe 30%. Like there's a lot of things that can still go on there. This isn't even saying that with Tatum just coming back.

“Just tell us all you need to know about, you know, the heart of the Celtics.”

You know what I'm saying? Absolutely. All right. Well, you're on the record. I will see you. I will see you after the Eastern Conference finals. If not sooner and certainly I'll let you know where I'm staying in Boston. All right. Sounds good. Thank you very much. Alex Spiro.

Thank you. We'll see you soon. All right. Everybody, thank you so much.

Thank you to all of our producers, Mark Jackson and Tucker and Devon as always.

Thank you to Vince Goodwill and Anthony Slater joined us earlier. Thank you for listening and watching who collected. We'll talk to you next week.