What Is Going On With Kawhi & The Clippers? Big Decisions For Denver & Phoenix

- Hello, welcome to Oop Collective podcast.

“We talk about the NBA, which we're doing from Paris”

from me here on late Sunday evening and joining me on Sunday morning, or late morning, maybe it's all you have to do from Northern California as Anthony Slater. What's up, Slater?

- Almost directly noon, and I'm in the Sacramento area, it's hot. It's like 102 or something like that, so we've reached that part of the summer. - Yeah, I know kidding, what's been hot in Europe as well. So, lots of NBA folk though in Europe, you know,

right now, this is a time. The spurs have all been over here all week, Victor Wembanyama hosting a get together with most of the spurs team. They've been around town.

They got a little bit better access to the Louvre than I did Slater, like they posted a photo of all of them right next to the Mona Lisa, like in the room by themselves. I did not have such access.

- How about you get it? Did you see the wood Victor posted? He was on a boat in the sun, and he took a, you know, I looked at the ithal tower and then looked back at himself and said,

just like they've ever walked in San Antonio. So, I don't know if that was endearing or I'm not sure which, you know. We'll just go with endearing because, you know, Victor is still learning about his personality a little bit.

- How new to you are like the summer team trips?

“- I mean, I think it just feels like they're popularizing”

more and more. Obviously Luke is doing one, right? That's Slovenia, I think guy, you know, guys do the LA ones, but it feels like it's definitely with like the flood of international guys in the league.

It just feels like it's becoming more and more popular. - It's definitely something that most teams do. I think in some cases, like the team is sort of, I don't make any of the accusations. I think the team sort of sometimes secretly subsidizes it

a little bit, they're certainly subsidized by sending personnel there and a lot of cases to make sure their players are taking care of. I mean, last year we had the really unfortunate situation with Fred Van Blie, when he tore his ACL

on the rocket strip of the Bahamas. But they have like, over the last decade, it was like, oh, we're gonna get together in Miami or LA and now it's getting more and more far-flung. So, Victor hosts the team and Paris this summer,

Lucas hosts him in Slovenia. Where is this envelope going? Slater, like, what are all sorts of rules? This will be probably the theme of the podcast. I'm sure 'cause we're about to get to Kauai,

but what are the rules as far as like, 'cause I know like some coaches go and might kind of help run like a scrimmage, but I think you can't do like too much, like organized type team drills.

I'm sure, like is the head coach even allowed? Can he sit there in the gym and watch? How does it? - Yeah, I'm not sure. And I'm not like, you know,

then it's as close to the media. So, we don't exactly know what's going on, so a lot of it is your base,

you're basically relying on social media.

So, I don't know, but I know that some teams have gone to the Union's facility in Spain. The Union has a facility in Spain. In fact, the Union just announced this week, that this has actually been the case for a while,

but they officially opened it. The Clippers, you know, they built a new facility and into it dome.

“How about that for a transition about to make their Slater?”

And they're all facility in LA and Playa Vista. The Union acquired. And so now the Union has a base in New York. You've seen that, that, you know, in many different social media videos,

the Union's base, like in a high rise in Manhattan, they have a chord up there. And so players can go there and work out. They've had this one in Spain for a few years, which players have used in the summer.

And now they have one officially in LA, like a Biscuit Union base. And, you know, I know that there's downward pressure on salaries and spending to a certain extent because of the aprons.

It feels like teams are sort of cutting spending. But just in case you didn't know, but the NBA money is pouring into the NBA. The Union, that was three global work-off facilities.

And this week, I read a story that the first,

so the teams are getting new jets. Do you know about this later? No. Okay. So the teams have, for the last, you know,

I don't know, seven to 10 years. I've been using this fleet of Delta 757. They look like greater than Delta planes. They're outfitted for teams. NHL teams use them, WMBA teams use them, they're used.

But basically, they're outfitted for NBA teams. I think there's like 14 or 15 of them. And they circle around the country, moving teams around all year long. Well, they're getting over the next year.

They're getting replaced. And the first new NBA jet is ready.

I think it got delivered last week or so.

And, you know, the upgrade done this later is, is that now they have lay flat seats. I travel to China with the Warriors several years ago. You know, just for logistical purposes, it was like everybody, you know,

pack into the same monster plane. And I got that experience, the lay flat for that trip. Wow. I'm very impressed that you made the cut getting the lay flat seat.

They didn't stick you in the back as a media member. That's, well, I went, then went to Japan several years later. And I was in like that, the back set. I think it was an even more of an upgraded plane for, you gotta remember, the Warriors at the time,

the Beatles. I mean, like, I, I walked off the plane in China right behind Steph. And it was like, you know, it was like a seat,

you know, like, one of those old back-shade boys videos

where like there's like all these people going crazy at it.

“That's what it felt like walking off a plane.”

Definitely clay. That's when they had the toaster. You remember the thing with clay with the toaster? No, reminded about the toaster. I mean, I, I'm a, I'm a, from familiar with China clay.

Clay one time signed a toaster at like an event. And it became like part of his lore was like, you know, what, you know, he's play real clay. He's signing a toaster. And then we got to China that had just happened semi-recently.

And then we got to China. And there was a ton of Chinese fans with like toasters, like holding him on. That's amazing. That is something that the Chinese would really attach

himself to because because the games are in impossible hour in China. And this is the same in the Philippines, my experience there. It's hard for them to watch the actual live games. So they really attach themselves, you know,

they consume the NBA largely on social media. And it's largely, you know, memes and social media stuff. And so that's exactly, that's exactly what the Chinese would love, it was a story like that.

“But anyway, yeah, but that was, you know,”

that was an overseas charter. That isn't a normal. That isn't, you know, an everyday flight from, you know, San Francisco to, you know, Chicago. And now, you know, and I don't think all the planes

are going to be there, but starting this year, they're going to, the lifelift seats are going to be moving in. So that's, it may frankly, the teams travel overnight, the technologies available, like it only makes sense that they have that.

So I have a question for you, you said they were delivered

this week, or at least the first one was.

Well, the first one, all the first. Every team got a delivered, or, you know, is there a, like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Like I said, they share them. They share them.

Yeah, yeah. And, you know, they rotate around and, like, each team has a different, like, when a team comes in, they, like, slip, like, signage in. And, you know, it has signage all over the thing.

But when they're done with the Warriors flight, then they take all the Warriors signage down. And up, now they're flying the heat, you know, you know, somewhere, and they put all the heat signage in. Like they, you know, but they're all the same planes.

That's the same fleet.

“How many planes total do you need to, you know,”

execute an NBA calendar? I think there's 14 or 15. Yeah, sounds like it's 14 or 15. Let's just do story time, brought to you by so-fi, get your money, right?

More who, collective podcast after this. (upbeat music) When I was in the Cavs locker room, and I was covering the Cavs, and there was this moment where the team, the travel manager,

came over to LeBron before the game. And on that particular night, there was just a crazy amount of NBA teams traveling and NHL teams traveling. And so, they actually ran out of planes.

So they had to like, this probably doesn't happen that often, but they had to like go get an extra plane. And the Cavs had a short trip. They were going to like Milwaukee or Washington or something. And so, he didn't just tell LeBron,

he told all the players this. But I remember staying next to LeBron in this happened. And he was like, hey, just so you know, there's no card table on the plane tonight. They were playing a game and they were traveling after

or for a back-to-back. And he was going around telling people, hey, just so you're aware, you know, we got a different type of plane tonight, no card table in it.

And LeBron said, boy, is so-and-so, gonna be really pissed off about that because there was a big game plan that they were down. So now, LeFled seats,

and probably banquet tables in the new jets. So I don't know about the banquet tables. I'm just saying, I do know they have LeFled seats, which bring up a good points later. If there's only a few of those planes,

like, you know, if you know, let's say that, you know, only a few of them are rotated in, you know, who gets the, who gets the good planes. Hopefully the long trips, you know, I don't know. Anyway, I'm sure they'll be

some stories about that during the stretch. Let's focus on the Los Angeles Clippers

had an update to his reporting on Kawai Leonard and the Clippers.

“And let me just say, it involves the scoreboard maker,”

Dac Tronix, who did the $100 million scoreboard

into it down, the Halo board they called. It's an unusual scoreboard like no one I've ever seen. It's unbelievable. Yeah, instead of, you know, most scoreboards, you're looking at the four or five or six sides,

but you're looking at the outside, it's hanging in the center, you're looking at the outside. The Halo board goes all around the whole arena and you're looking up sort of in the inside of the ring. I'm the outside too, but the inside of the ring,

so it has a completely different vantage point in way more service area. I don't know for a fact, but it's probably the most elaborate scoreboard ever built in the arena. Certainly in America.

Yeah, I mean, the ones we've seen.

“Yeah, what the innovation was the Cowboy stadium, right?”

Back in the day, this is way more elaborate than that. Right, it's a completely different sort of insight out.

So, Slater, what the key thing the Pablo is reporting here

is that Kawai Leonard had, he, he, he, he sights a former Clippers official who said that Kawai had a multi-million dollar sponsorship deal with Dac Tronix, which has never been announced. Dac Tronix never announced that he, you know,

the Dac Tronix doesn't even do typically and he advertising or any marketing, at least not marketing to the public. The only celebrity in Dorser ever would be, what? Yeah, we don't know that.

We don't, you know, we don't know, but obviously it's suspicious. Now, when the aspiration story came out, you know, a year ago, for me, Slater, it was hard to understand, because I didn't understand what aspiration was as a company. I didn't understand carbon credits.

I mean, I understand the general concept of it, but I didn't understand how this was such a big business, planting trees and selling carbon credits. And it definitely was highly suspicious, be as well as the NBA to investigation.

But I had difficulty understanding it, and also the guy who ran aspiration was a fraudster, you know, the one thing that throughout the entire aspiration scandal, and I am not an investigative reporter, nor am I doing an event.

I did a little bit of reporting on, on that story, like I called some other clip or sponsors and asked them if they were ever asked to, you know, throw money, co-wise away, and they said no. But I really haven't done the story.

I am not, I'm not involved with it at all. But from where I sat, the guy who went to prison for many years, this guy Joe Sandberg, to me, it looked to me like it was a Ponzi scheme where he needed new investment to keep his Ponzi scheme going,

and he did whatever made Steve Ballmer happy to because he was where he's given the new investment from. That to me, look like what it was. I'm not saying that's what it was. I'm just saying, I didn't understand, okay?

It was just hard to completely get. Let me say this situation is not hard to understand. At least the concept, because what Pablo is laying out is the appearance of a kickback. I can figure out a kickback very easily.

I do not have to have, you know, FBI training or be a assistant U.S. attorney to understand the concept of a kickback. And that is not directly what Pablo is alleging here, but that is the scenario that he is laid out.

And the thing that comes along with this is that some other outlets, including the athletic have reported that the league was looking

at a second deal with involving Kauai,

and the terrain to Toronto head was slowed down.

“And the other thing that I think is very interesting to me”

is that electronics did not come out with a statement on Thursday or Friday or Saturday or Sunday, we'll see what the new week brings. That completely denied this whatsoever. They had a crisis PR man and outside public relations

specialists say something like, well, Kauai is under contract with the electronics right now. It was not a full-throated denial. And so lots of haze here, the clippers didn't comment, but slater, this to me is extraordinarily troubling.

And it's now, you know, and the lack of response for days on end here, because remember the clippers when the aspiration thing came out within a day or two, Steve Baumar was in Bristol, Connecticut talking and denying

And look, maybe we're in the summer, people are where,

I'm the, you know, story may change in the next 12 hours. I'm not seeing full-throated denials. This one looks a little different to me. - Yeah, looks powder cap, circumvention. Theoretically has 29 victims, right?

29 teams, it's it's, but if we look back and you know, when a lot of this stuff is perceived to happen, what the, you benefit for the clippers was the steel in the way from Toronto, they would be, to me, the biggest victim of what happened

and what is the ironic is right now, they, you know, again, they did it to themselves, to a degree, initially agreeing to this coitrade, but they are on the backside of this circular situation, the victim again.

But is it your understanding, I mean,

“I believe Adam Silver even kind of said this”

at his most recent press conference that, like, Toronto is the one that have held this trade up, right? If Toronto wanted to go through and just say, hey, we'll just, we'll eat whatever punishments potentially come. They, like, the trade could be executed at this point, right?

It's all done. - Yes, Adam Silver, I was at the press conference in Las Vegas. Adam Silver said those words essentially that it was not the league stopping the trade, it was by the teams. And I assume he didn't say Toronto,

but I mean, I think Toronto would be the one to do that. - So, you know, you have the side situation here where eventually the league is gonna have to dull out punishment. Obviously, there's so much, like, just like legal twists in terms of probably still, you know, a ton to go.

But my interest level is still on this, you know, held up trade, how it in some ways is holding up business. This summer, obviously, players careers, right? Brandon Eager and Brady Dick, for example, quite obviously.

“Do you, is there a point as this unfolds, Toronto just pulls out?”

And then, you know, that changes the summer, that change, you know, do they go try to do something else? In all honesty, like, in terms of like, you know, there's certain people who want the book thrown at the clippers, they want the clippers to be held accountable on all this.

Let me just say, the clippers full-throated denials, both publicly and privately, have been so strong. And I mean, I'm talking about on a personal level, you know, like, with the highest levels of the clippers, to my face. You know, it was, let's split this way.

I mean, I could never be on a jury because I know too many people.

But if I was on a jury, their denials were so strong. And not just like, you know, saying I, we didn't do it. And then, you know, saying it with the, you know, with the pleading look in their face. But they're, you know, sort of the case that they laid out

and all this stuff like evidentiary case. Like, I mean, you know, not formally, but like informally. Like, you know, I mean, I go to a lot of the polygames, you know. And I'm not asking questions about it every day. But I, you know, the course of the nine, 10 months, I, I, you know,

I look these people in their eye. And Balmer denied it like in letters to judges. Like it was a extraordinarily fierce denial on this. On this aspiration stuff. And look, I don't, I don't even know how, I mean,

Pablo's reporting has, I mean, he's want to pull its surprise on this. And Pablo's reporting is routinely been largely proven correct. So like, I don't know what the source is that said he had a contract.

“You know, that's obviously key, did he get money from Dactronics?”

But, uh, Slater, if this is accurate, like the clipper side of it is devastating. Okay. So that's just, but that's, let's put that aside for right now. Yeah, Toronto side is one one, yes. For the actual business of the NBA for the 2627 season. This is not just a clipper issue.

Last year was a clipper issue. Now it was no longer just a clipper issue. But a quiet Leonard is on the rapper's or not has a huge circumstantial fallout in the eastern conference. And then obviously, like, you know, tomorrow to Rose and his held up to a certain extent,

for example, and, you know, some other players, but, you know, you know, James Harden has, hasn't done his business with the calves, because they're waiting on things and Peyton Watts and Benedict Matherin is an important clipper issue. Yeah. There's a series of things here, but even beyond the free agent, log jam.

It's, I don't, the Raptors have been building their team or Juan Caway, you know, and they've been ready to extend this contract. Brandon Ingram has been ready to be a clipper. Do you think Brandon Ingram is in the headspace to go back and be a Raptor at this point? Like, this is, the other stuff's going to play out, like, you know, and it's the, and I'm

season.

“And I don't know how this changes it, but theoretically, you could say, hey, like, the”

deadline for the Raptor to the side, yes or no, probably to them, you know, is the day before training camp, but also, yeah, as you laid out, if, if they're ultimate verdict is like, hey, we can't, we can't get into business with Caway right now. Sure, you could bring Brandon Ingram back, ready to like, praise your things that happen in the league, but also maybe you do want to pivot to something else.

Maybe you do want to dangle Brandon Ingram out there, go after different, you know, again, I did a king story this week, for example. They have, they, at the deadline, really sniffed around on Domonasabona. It's not saying that they're going to necessarily revive that exact, you know, conversation, but if you who are the Raptors, like, maybe you do want to do the Raptors, you got to be,

you got to be recalling your people from their summer vacations. I mean, maybe not actually, but you're having, you're having contingency plans now. And, you know, I don't know when the Raptors found this out, you know, the Raptors, you know, one of the things that came out of the Adam Silver Press Conference was that the league was getting regular updates on the investigation.

Like he had to be kind of pulled there, but he, he, he, he, he finally revealed the league

was not in the dark, and I do not believe, I'm going to, I want to be careful about this because the aggregation. I do not believe that Pablo's story was the first time that the league had heard about electronics. Also, something else, and I, this is a little bit more circumstance, or whatever. Like the warriors were really like into the coi-liner trade idea at the trade deadline,

look, less February. They were less into that idea this summer, and I, you know, again, part of it is like the, you know, coi extension, and, you know, coi, clearly, and a lot of ways wanted to direct

“himself to Toronto, right? I think we would have both agreed that that was part of the trade,”

you know, complexities, but also like, you know, I think it started to be sniffing around the league of this idea, like maybe there was punishment heading coi as a way, and I think that might have, you know, worn it off some suitors. Yes, but, you know, multiple teams talked to league office, the league office said they wouldn't stop a trade in June, and then they went ahead with the deal.

And, you know, the reason the league is, is being very careful here is there's still not over the fallout from the Terry Rose Year situation. Now, to remind you of that, Terry Rose Year was investigated by the league.

The investigation was never public.

They did not find wrongdoing, and then the hornets traded into Miami, and the heat were in the dark, they didn't know about the investigation, they didn't know that they were acquiring a player who was potentially under investigation from the federal government. And they traded a first-round pick for them, and, you know, they lost them for this whole last year, and then they, you know, they're still out the pick, they pick hasn't even conveyed

yet. Now, the heat of moved on, they traded for Janice, you know, they've moved on. But the heat were, you know, they had a case that they were highly wronged. And so the league is obviously going to be careful about this no matter what, but especially coming off of the Rose Year situation, where that did not go well.

I'm not going to assign blamed anything, let's just say that did not go well.

“And so the league, I think, was way more out there with the quiet thing warning the raptors,”

than any other team who might have had interest in coi. And, you know, so I put it this way. To get back to what you said, I absolutely believe that the raptors have got to be considering what they're all alternatives are at this point. And so we will see about that.

Okay, we did have some MBA business since we last got together, contractual business.

And that was Dylan Brooks agreeing to a three year, $73 million contract extension with

the Phoenix Suns. Dylan had a terrific year in his first year in Phoenix State, you know, I don't know if they would say they overachieve, but they achieved more than a lot of people thought that they would. And he had one year in 21 million left on his deal, and so he adds three years starting

at 22.5 million in 20, 728. So the new money doesn't begin for a year. Now, miles, so I'd say something about Phoenix, first off, later. The value of this contract, you know, the average salary here is about 24 and a half million. It's not a bad number, it's a, it's a good number for Dylan.

When we do contracts, I always think, can they trade it?

So he's now got four years and about 95 million dollars left on his contract. Could they trade it? Yes, would be the answer. That's probably. I mean, he's a culture center.

“I think he has shown he improves, not only obviously does he, you know, bring a level of”

kind of winning seriousness, but he clearly takes the job very serious, so I got to kill age well, you know, and then, you know, he says scoring, well, what did he, I mean, you might not have it up. Yeah, I did. I mean, he, his, you know, he was a career like 14 point of game score, 13, 14 point

of game score, and I mean, he took way more shots last year. His role was really funky, and there are situations where he's trying to break guys down off the dribble, and it's just like, it doesn't look like you're, you know, number two score on a team. Yeah, what do you want to do?

Yeah, yeah, every 20 points again last year, you know, on the 20 point of game score. Fringe all defense. I think it was a fringe all start. Remember there was like real all start case from last year. Yeah.

Yeah. It was like, what's that to do? No, I'm more, but the average value is fine. It's more about the years. I'm not going to spend much time analyzing it, you know, good for any earned it.

I'm just looking at the sun's books. And so the expectation is that they're going to eventually extend Miles Bridges. They traded for Miles Bridges this summer.

We call Phoenix West Lansing, you know, Bridges has one year, 23 million left on his

contract. It doesn't appear he's going to extend this summer. He has to wait. I think he's got to wait six months. I mean, I mean, could use Bobby Marks to help us with that.

But, um, no, he's such an eligible right now. I take that back. But, um, this is kind of like the, um, the Shoms report the other day of Anthony Davis is going to wait into the season. Almost nobody wants to wait into the season.

“He typically wants your deal done, but, um, I think eventually there's a very good chance”

that Miles Bridges is going to get extended is my point. Um, and so if you look at the sun's books, looking at the 27, 28 season after the subcoming year, you're, you've Devon Booker at 61 million, Jalen Green as a player option at 36 million, um, maybe he does a new deal and replaces that number, but for now I'm going to put 36 million. So that's, you know, that's 97 million for those two players.

I can't wait for one of the names you're going to mention coming up that is on the books and also a phrase and right now you got Dylan Brooks at 22.5. So that's, you know, 120 million for those three players and whatever Bridges signs for and I doubt it'll be for a pay cut, you know. So between those four players, you're looking at, um, probably going to be in the neighborhood

of, you know, 150 million for those four players. And then of course, the Bradley Bill, um, 19.3 million for years into the future. So, so what, four more seasons of that, is that right? Yes. The answer is yes.

So, um, what you're basically looking at with Phoenix is the quintet because the thing is what it is, uh, Booker, Jalen Green, Miles Bridges, Dylan Brooks, and Bradley Bill, you're looking at just south, um, you know, 175 million. Um, I, I like what the sons have done, like, you know, um, obviously, Jordan not had a great first year, um, Brian Gregory, their GM has, you know, did a really nice job.

They, uh, Colin Gillespie, they signed to a nice extension, this summer allowed people like that, um, you know, they signed Mark Williams to a reasonable extension, short deal that wasn't out of line below the mid level. Um, they signed Jordan Goodwin to a long-term deal, a lot of the league like that. Those are all nice, nice singles, you know, come on.

“Malewatch looked great in summer league, you know, that's what you want to see from your”

second year player. You want to see him dominate. He looked good. Like, those are all things that if you're a sons fan, that you are like, you know, this is really good. You know, they got Luke

Knart at a really nice number, two years and 12 million. I think the second year's

a player option, but, you know, getting Knart for six, Mike, these are all moves that I really like that I like, you know, Phoenix is on the right track, but then I look at that top of that line of that salary structure. And I look at the rest of the West later, I'm just

and, you know, all the stuff about the apron is everything, but like, you know, what do you think that the seal and the watcher? That's great picture.

“All right, because I think, you look, they box them into a degree of this team that was like,”

kind of feel good story last year. It was, you know, there was a bump off how miserable the prior couple of seasons were right and it was just like, oh, they're playing hard. The local fans like them, um, as long as your expectations are like, that is okay for the next few years, right? That kind of that play and bracket range. Maybe you can surprise you get into the first round as they did last year. You're okay, right? They got swept by

the thunder. Obviously, they would have loved to take a gambit too often. But if, like, do you think internally there's this idea of, like, okay, now it's that forward this year. Now we get into the second round as that is where I'm with you, like, that look where is that upside with this core? I don't, I don't see it. So anyway, and I would just say, like, again, this is not CNBC podcast, but Mattish Pia, you know, I like Mattish Pia.

“He's been on the podcast, you know, I think he's, he's a type of owner. I think you”

don't want because he's aggressive, you know, maybe not with his decision making in certain cases, but you want to know, or who's putting money on the team. You know, he's really put a lot of money into the mercury built them into practice facility, um, and his decision, you know, the process that they did to get to Georgia, not, you know, they went through a very long process to get Georgia, Georgia, not like that. Like, obviously, made a good

choice there. Like, I, you know, I could go on and on, you know, qualifying this. But Mattish

Pia's mortgage business is in bad shape. He is company, um, reported a $500 million

loss in their last quarter, and it's stock plunge 50% last week. And, um, you know, I, I'm not in the mortgage business, you know, there's a hundred different things that I, that I probably don't understand, but I would just say that in the last 12 months his stock prices down 70% and his personal net worth is down, you know, according to Forbes three billion dollars in that timeframe. So, you know, just keep that in mind that, you know, I mean,

look, he's still very wealthy. We're not staying awake tonight worrying about whether Matt's going to make his, uh, mortgage payment, his own mortgage payment. But, um, you know, that is something to be aware of. And I'm sure if you're a son's fan, you are aware of that, um, that, uh, that he had this business, his business is struggling. And so, you know, when you have five players on your books, making that much money, you're very likely going

to have to be a luxury tax payer and the, and the owner's personal finances are struggling. Yeah, and I mean, we'll see how that impacts personal decision making, but as you mentioned, I mean, like, you know, at the same time they are committing long-term money. So, well, the question I would have to mad and he probably would answer this if I asked him on all honesty. He probably would say that they would do it anyway. So, you know, I don't know

for sure, but last summer, they made a decision to wave and surprise stretch feel. And that decision probably contributed, not because Brad was an issue in the locker room, whatever, but that

“moving on from Bradley helped I think they're, they have a step forward season. What he have”

committed to waving a hundred million dollar didn't dead money if he had lost, you know, multiple

million, multiple billions of net worth the same summer. Maybe what I will say didn't, didn't didn't that particular wave and stretch save and outrageous amount of like tax penalty money in the immediate. You know what, you are, you are correct. Yeah, I remember Bobby had like a specific number that was like eye popping. A little bit like a thunder this summer, right? Every trade that thunder made, it would be like, well, I actually saved, you know, X amount of million. I do remember

that was part of the, you know, I guess the appeal of the, of the be away was just pure liquid finance. Well, speaking of dealing with finances, more who, collective podcast after this. Payton Watson is still an unrestricted or a still restricted creation. He's out there. There's all these, you know, I would just say in general, and I don't have a crystal ball. I don't know what's going to happen, but I'm seeing a lot of people talk about sign-and-trade situations, okay?

And I don't think people are seeing the full picture. And maybe I'm not seeing it correctly. Maybe the people that I'm talking to don't see it correctly either, but for example, I keep

seeing Jonathan Kominga sign-and-trades. My friends, the Atlanta Hawks are $4 million below the

luxury tax. If they send Jonathan Kominga somewhere that sends a player back, it sends him into the

a matter whether the trade works, it's a matter of whether that the Hawks want to go into the tax. To help Jonathan Kominga, okay? I see the same thing about the Milwaukee box, because the Milwaukee box, you know, they've been tied to Kominga, they've been tied to Kominga, they've been tied to paid in Watson, for example. And people point out that they have this really big trade exception.

“I think it's a $25 million trade exception that they have from the Janice Attenticoopo trade. And”

you absolutely can use of trade exception to acquire a player. And so that's one of the things they say. Well, if they don't have to send it, the bucks don't have to send any money back. You know, if they were to say trade sign-and-trade for Jonathan Kominga, that is true. Absolutely correct. But the bucks themselves are right up against the luxury tax.

They're $10 million below the luxury tax. And they're $14 million below the first apron,

which is where they're hard-capped. They can't spend more than $14 million. Also, it should be mentioned heading towards a year where it wouldn't make a ton of, like, of course not. That's for the course not guy into the tax, please.

“I'm just, and I understand we're in the dead part of season, and people are filling their”

their space here with like this, but I'm seeing like, oh, the bucks you're going to get this deal done. It's going to be great. Now, it's like my friends, my good friends, I love you all

in the media. The bucks have $10 million below the tax.

They're not going into the tax. I mean, with all the respect, I understand paid in Watson's a good player. It's not a, it's not a valuation on him, but the acquiring paid in Watson does not make the bucks like a second-out playoff team, okay, which is how you're going into the tax. So, if there's a trade that makes sense where the bucks offloads some money and then can avoid the tax and get these players, okay, show me the trade. Now, I'll be very happy and

retain it. That could happen. This is probably where you'd say 13s could be super relevant, you know, that can happen. Because again, I should show you your probably getting to is like, what Denver can't just take him back on your money? Exactly. So, he's like, exactly. So, yeah. So, what we're seeing here is, Denver is $21 million over the luxury tax.

They're 14 million into the second apron and they're a repeater team. They're $187 million

to their starting five next year, just their starting five, you know, talking. I just can't see it happening. I just can't see it happening. And so, you know, Watson is in a situation where he's knocked, you know, I mean, the teams with space have not offered him at least to this point yet on offer sheet. And he's in this misery of restricted free agency. And it's unfortunate for him. But the nuggets are just, you know, they hold the cards at this point. And, you know,

slater like, that's just a truth. Like, they may hold the cards, but it's not like a super appealing hand considering like, you know, their financial constraints and their relationship with Peyton Watson, which, you know, we'll see where that necessarily goes. Like, I agree. Obviously, like restrictive ratings, he's increasingly challenging to the restrictive for agents. But like, Denver is in a

“bind right now, right? I mean, that's why the Spencer Jones offer sheet while small in it, you know,”

it, to a degree was a very interesting offer sheet from a rival, the thunder, um, because it just further complicated Denver trying to maneuver in the second apron world with, you know, all these finances. And again, as we both know, like the Yokech non extension for reasons that he has quite a doubt, right? He still plans to be in Denver for his career. But like, this isn't necessarily the time to be making salary slashing moves as you're still long-term trying to convince your

franchise player to be there. But also, like, it's, like you said, like, I wouldn't necessarily want to be Peyton Watson in this situation, but I don't think, like, Denver sitting there, like, man, what a, what a beautiful spot we're in. Right. Well, the one scenario, scenario that has happened that is somewhat interesting has been floated. And I don't know who to give the proper credit to. I've been overseas. I'm not trying to, to, to screw somebody over and steal them. I, I apologize,

whatever, whatever. Um, is the idea that they could sign and trade them to Denver. I'm sorry to Milwaukee and get back Jaime Hakez. Now, whether that's something that's realistic or not, Jaime Hakez makes $6 million in the last year of his rookie deal. Um, again, depending on what

kind of thing where I could not reject it at hand, because getting a multi-position player who, you know, who could prove like Jaime Hakez for $6 million is attractive to Denver. But it's also potentially

“attractive to Denver to just force Watson to take his, is a qualifying offer, which I think is”

$7 million, because as upsetting as it would be for Watson have to take that, considering where the

nuggets are, getting him for $7 million would be an incredible value. Um, and that's the thing that's

so difficult about this is sure Denver would like to get him into a contract that would make everybody happy. But Denver could get him in a contract and have them in a contract year for that amount of money, and that'd be the worst case scenario. Yeah, but that he's, you know, he has the implicit notoriety, essentially, in that scenario. Um, and I assume the real, you know, anytime he gets to it to qualifying offer stays, the relationship is relatively kind of like, tatters. I agree. Most of the

time, it's over. Yeah, and I look, I was, I covered the nuggets, Timberwood's first round series, and, you know, they kept calling him day to day, day to day, but, you know, maybe he'll play at

some point in the series, and never did, and that, you know, part of the belief was, you know,

this looming restrictive for agency, you know, you had Aaron Gordon at the time dragon himself onto the floor, dealing with a calf strain, and Watson was never able to get out there, so I just, you know, leading into this free agency restrictive for agency that, you know, will just generate natural, sour feeling. So, you're right to a degree where like, wow, paint Watson on that small number, considering their financial situation could help for the immediate, but like, you know,

as Denver tries to guide, you know, yogurt into this later stage of his prime, I don't think that's a good result for them, in Jack. The other problem is is because Watson's peak form last year was for a relatively small window. Yes. The unknown combined with the financial, I think, you know, you know, Denver is dealing with a difficult hand here, as what I'm saying. Yeah. But I would just say for everybody who is super engaged in this, because I know that there's a core amount of

“family, you have to be a core fan, but listen to the who collective in mid August, like,”

we appreciate you, and that's what we're talking about this. When you consider what's on Watson's plate, you have to consider the salary, the overall salary positions of the teams that could trade for like, you know, for example, Cleveland has been attached to him. Cleveland is trying like crazy

to stay out of the second apron. That's part of what's going on with Harden right now. It's one

of the reasons he hasn't signed. And so the sign and trades, you know, situation of what it would imply for Cleveland and what they can do with Harden, you know, you have to look at the whole the whole 360 degrees. And that's one of the reasons why Watson is in hell right now. So to be continued, and you know, I have I have seen lots of restricted free agencies drag out. I have not seen too many of them get done in August. Typically with with with with a restricted free

agent, you come to an agreement within the first couple days of free agency, or at least you have a framework, or you do it at the buzzer. Still, it's, you know, not every time. There are examples of of deals that got done in August, but most of the time August, everybody goes on vacation, doesn't call anybody back. Yeah, talk about the buzzer. I dealt with one last year that that blend into camp, right? Remember the end, and it affected our horror for the end of the end of the

email. And I'm obviously talking about the commingus situation, not sure. They couldn't go to media day. They couldn't attend the first day of practice. And I'm not, you know, we'll see if, if this Watson situation had stores that are jail and Durant is very interesting to watch, right? You know, when does that? I don't think a sign of trades really on the tail for jail and Durant, at least I haven't heard of it yet. So Detroit has like, you know, next that idea, completely, the king, for example,

would it would have, and would remain very interested in jail and Durant of side and trades in

“area, but Detroit is just not. I think if Detroit showed a will need to do a sign of trade for”

jail and Durant, there'd be a number of teams calling, but they're just not very true. But anyway, all right, before we go, Slater, um, Don Nelson passed away. This we're doing this on Sunday, um, Don Nelson passed away. 86 years old, many people are going to have many things to say about Don Nelson. We're not going to say all of it here. I was supposed to be so sad, Nick, man, this podcast, but I literally got the day wrong. Like, literally got the day wrong because McMahon is at a

morning. It was actually on Sunday morning. And so maybe we'll hear from McMahon later this week

on Don Nelson, a guy he covered. But Don Nelson is a Hall of Famer and it changed the game in many ways and Slater for the people in the Bay Area. Yeah. The seeds of the Warriors, Dynasty were planted by Don Nelson. And, you know, Larry Riley and the other folks who started drafting those. We're talking about Steph Curry. You're talking about the Steph Curry, your af where Don Nelson, you know, look, Steph Curry did not want to go to the Warriors, um, the Phoenix

sons at the time were even trying to execute a trade through their GM's, Steve Curry to guess. Yeah, I've just heard a story last week. Yeah. Yeah, um, but Don Nelson saw something and steps to the

point. Don Nelson has been quoted in the aftermath of saying he he thought Steph was the second best

prospect in the draft. Would it take him Blake Griffin one, but would it take him Steph Curry to push the Warriors as Steph even had a quote today, a, you know, after it's passing about, you know, Don Nelson's importance in bringing Steph Curry to the Warriors. So, like, beyond seeds of a dynasty right now. I mean, that is planting the diamonds the in a lot of way. Well, there's so many people that are going to tell stories about him. His former players, um,

the late Paul Silas who was his teammate with the Celtics told me some stories about Don Nelson. And then, um, I mean, every, this guy is, you know, he was a part he, he'd lived hard. He partied. He had great relationship with the players. You know, he, you know, he, you know, Dirk Navizki. He was

“obviously crucial, you know, he didn't win the championship for the Mavericks, but he more than”

planted the seeds there. He, he, he told the fields. You know, he, he, he, he was he had a big part of that championship, a big part of the foundation of the Warriors. Um, but, uh, he was honored during the 20, 25 finals. Um, the coaches Association every year, honors a veteran coach. And, um, uh, he was honored. And he came to Oklahoma City and had a press conference and held court for 30, 40 minutes. And it was one of the most enjoyable times I had all of the 20, 20, 25 season, 20, 40, 25 season.

And he was, I don't remember the exact number. So don't hold me to the exact number. And you're going to say, he hadn't been state side in about seven years. Yeah. And he hadn't, he said he hadn't had closed healed. He hadn't had a shoes with a heel with a closed shoe since before COVID. Like he was wearing dress shoes because he was being honored. He said, you know, I haven't, I haven't, I haven't anything on, but sandals or flip flops in five years. Yeah,

lived, I mean, for the people that don't know, lived in Hawaii, post retirement, uh, I was in two, I was in that press conference, which as you mentioned was it was, was enjoyable. He had the

“whole room cracking up, but also, oh my god, we could have gone on for hours. I think it was the last”

time he had been state side was several years prior back at Oracle. They did something with like Stephen Jackson and Baron Davis and kind of honor and those teams that he came over. He did another press conference where he had, you know, Stephen Jackson and that whole room cracking up, talking about his life in Hawaii and in some of his activities in Hawaii. Yeah, I mean, he was a legendary pot smoker. Although, I think he said he stopped smoking in Oklahoma City. He had, I don't know

what he said about, but he had, he had moved on from it. But um, 86 years old lives an incredible

life will be many tributes in the coming days. We can't do it all here, but I'd be remiss if I didn't say it. I mean, I remember one of the one of my memories, it was right near the end of his coaching time with Golden State. Um, when there was a game in Cleveland like Virginia, and you mid mid December, and you anywhere's freezing outside, and um, he held shoot around and I came to shoot around and I remember he had this plastic bag full of cigars. Yeah, that in one hand,

in another hand, he had a cigar holder with three, space for three cigars. And he, shooter on was over and the guys were still shooting. And in fact, Stephen Jackson had just been

“traded for, I think it was his first game as a warrior that night. And that's why I want to shoot around.”

And um, they were like literally going over the offense with them. They've teach him the plays for that night. And Nelly was like, looking through each cigar and smelling it and decided, no, that's no good throwing it. You know, he had like 10 in this plastic bag. He's like, oh, that's a good one. Put that in the holder and he goes through a couple more. No, no, no, okay. When he had three good ones, and he closed off his, uh, you know, his three cigar holder, he put it in his pocket.

And he turned around and goes, buses leaving. He's like, he had his afternoon, he had his cigar for the afternoon. He was going back to the hotel. And um, so yeah, uh, that's how Nelly rolled at the end.

year. And I'm redoing that story. And he became only the second person ever, Steve Kerr,

who had 600 wins as a coach and 600 wins as a player. And it's, you know, it don't surprise me the

“other guy who had done it was Donald Nelson. And you know, I think we're talking about a lot of”

like the management coaching side and some of the the decision making over the last several decades

that has led to or talking about like he was a really good player to 600 Steve Kerr has had an

“incredible. He's at Hall of Hand coaching for a 600 Nelson at 1300. Yeah. Exactly. So it's the threshold”

of 16 at 600 as a player and coach, but yeah, 13. And one, one, a handful of championships with the

Celtics. Yeah. As a player. Rest in peace, Nelly. All right. Thank you to Jackson. Thank you to Slater.

“Thank you. Rest to our producers. Thank you for watching. Let's see him who collective.”

We'll be back later this week. See if we can get McMahon on the right day. That was my fall. Talk to you later.