Keeping the Cards the Hero: The Vision Behind Front Row Card Shows with Dan Bliss

We just really focus on the vendors and the collectors.

I agree with keeping the cards the hero. The beauty of card shows is about sensitivity. It's about finding the thing that you didn't even know you were looking for. Welcome to The Collector Nation podcast here on The Collector Nation Network. Whether you're chasing Grails or calling Bluffs.

You take you inside the hobby. Here's your host, Ryan Allford. Cart shows are having a huge moment in the hobby right now. But running a great one takes more than just tables and dealers. Dan Bliss is the founder, front row, car show. One of the fastest growing car shows circuits in the country.

And someone who's been promoting large-scale events long before the current hobby boom.

Today we're talking about what actually makes a great car show. What's changed in the hobby and what the future of live card events looks like. Welcome to Collector Nation. What's up Dan? Thanks for having me Ryan. Good to be here. I'm glad to be here. I hope you are.

How are you doing? Are you doing Vegas? I'm trying to figure out what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. If you live in Vegas, I don't really know. I guess it happens in Vegas stays in Vegas too.

I don't know how that works. We're not allowed to talk about it. Yeah exactly. We can't tell you exactly. Hey, you got the memo. There it is. It comes when you move here.

“They give you the gear instrument formation and you have to abide by it.”

So it's like what it is. I like it, man. You know, I got back into the hobby two years ago with my boys after collecting growing up. And then blessed to do this show and other things and it's been interesting going to card shows as much as anything going and getting back and seeing the energy.

You know, I went, like the second show we went to was like the national last year. It's so imagine. And so I get back at the hobby hasn't been into it.

I'd never been to a national because it didn't exist when I collected or anything like it is today.

Wow, what a fire hose that was. Yeah, it's, it's, you know, you should jump into the deep end if you're going to the nationals as your second show back into the hobby. I got a similar experience. I collected as a kid and in fact, I became a vendor and I was buying and selling cards back in high school. I was selling at a flea market back then.

And then when I got the college, I started organizing my own shows and then, you know, when I graduated college, I got out of the hobby entirely. Like I sold my collection, which I deeply regret. Of course,

“you know, I sold some things. I should not have sold. I should have kept them walked up, right?”

But I got back into the hobby and it was similar experience. You know, I, I started going to shows and grading was new to me, right? Because grading was around, you know, when, when I was a kid. So, so suddenly there was, there was a big learning curve there, but it was still, there's still room familiar, you know, from where I was young. Yeah. I mean, the biggest thing I noticed like coming back in was, like, obviously the scale of the national kind of through through it,

through it, to a hold on through loop. But the grading thing was one, like how that was suddenly like every, you know, I had heard a PSA when I collected, like, but it was a fracably one millionth of what it is now. And then, uh, I noticed that people got a little nicer. All the, uh, all the dealers were dickheads when I grew up. And I think, I think the internet softened people because you have reviews now and you also have less, you have more democratization of availability

with the internet. You know, the internet didn't exist when I grew up. So, all the card dealers, you know, you go to a show or, or the local card shop, and they had a monopoly on it. You couldn't get any worlds. You couldn't really get values. So, they kind of owned the entire experience and a lot of them unfortunately weren't the best, uh, stewards. At least in my town

“in Greenville, South Carolina. You know, I remember that same thing with the card shops, you”

right, is things were overpriced at the card shops because there's no competition. They're, they're like, it's the only guy in town that's got this. So, unless you're going to, to the pharmacy or, or, or, or, or, you know, it, where I was from Kmart, you know, and they went and tried to find some cards. Um, you know, you really had to go to the shop for anything remotely unique. Unless it was, you know, just the basic top scards. Um, so I, I, I, I, I told you, agreeing with that. And

but at the same time, I remember, you know, going to card shows and then there was some competition

if, if you're going to show us even back then because, you know, you can't overpricings because your neighbor will sell it cheaper. Exactly. Uh, and I, I want to talk about this point a little bit later. Uh, but now it's almost like we have too much information. So, uh, we'll come back to that

“point when we, we get into like, uh, the, uh, the real experience, but talk to me. Why card shows for you?”

And what got you engaged in that? Well, I've always been a people for the hobby because I

collected when I was a kid. And, um, I, over the years, I had a lot of experience. I, I got into the concert industry. I promoted 2,100 concerts. I owned a couple of concert venues. I organized music festivals. And then later I organized entrepreneurship conferences. So, I have a lot of of that experience. And then I just got back into the hobby because I missed it. So, I just genuinely missed it. Started being a nostalgic about it. Started buying cards online. And then I started

going to shows just as an attendee. And kind of inch my way back into it. And then, um, I told my wife, I said, we can't, we don't have any good shows here in Vegas. Let's not regular ones. And so,

“who's better qualified than me to organize shows? I organized shows in college. And then after,”

after getting into the concert industry and the entrepreneur conference industry, who's better qualified to organize a card show than me? So, I thought, okay, here's the deal. I'll organize the whole show. I'll put everything together. I'll organize the venue. I'll do all the advertising and marketing and bring a crowd. When you run it for me, and then I get to be a vendor. And that was the deal with my wife. So, she can run the event while I get to be a vendor.

And so, first, I did, I did most of the work myself in advance. And she certainly helped. And then,

she agreed to that deal. And, um, now, now she's my partner. And she runs, she, she works full time for front row. And we've got a whole team that she manages. And, and it's now a big operation. And, uh, who would think it would have started like that? Hey, uh, I like the agreement, because I was going to ask you this question anyway. But, but, uh, you kind of went straight at it, which is, have you noticed, you know, like, I've, I've now opened a, I'm in my card store,

uh, studio, my studio is in the middle of it. So, I'm in the business now. Yep. How did did getting into the business of cards, changed card, nostalgia, and interest for you at all? Like, obviously you had a passion for it. I'm sure you still do. But did it, once it became business, instead of just a past time and, you know, collecting type of experience, and when it's just straight business, did it, it changed for you or you all, are you able to keep those things separated?

That's a really good question, Ryan. Um, for me, it, it, it, it, it, I only focus on as a vendor. Let's cause the buying and selling of cards. Yeah. I only buy and sell the cards that I love.

“I, I focus on vintage sports cards, because that's what I love. And I'm passionate about. I really”

love that stuff. I love the old, you know, Mickey Manel, Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, Roberto Clemente,

all those guys. Yeah. And so, that's really what I focus on. So, for me, it's always been that way.

In fact, when I started, because I, I started buying and selling at a flea market when I was in high school. So, you know, I would, I would rent a booth for $7 and I'd back up my beater car and, you know, pull out two sod horses in the door and that was my table outside. So, I'm in the sun and the summer, you know, and I have to worry about rain, because it's outside at a flea market. And that's how I started, right? But I was selling men. So, for me, it's always been co-mingled, you know,

what I love with buying and selling. And you write those that, that, you know, there are times where I've sold cards. I thought, I should have kept that for myself, you know, because I do have a personal collection at the same time. And there, I do have sellers remorse often because I'm truly a collector as well. Yeah. And that's interesting. I definitely have that myself. The, I guess I meant more, let me get asked at the question in a little different way. You're hosting all these events.

you're great at it. That's why, for roast become great. So, you're in the business, your business

“is cards. Because you're doing the card news and all that. And you're collecting. I was just saying”

the, is it changed because the business is the collectible past on the past promise to collectible business. You know, like that aspect, not necessarily the blending of the actual cards in your collection. But more, you spend all day working on front row, which is, you know, fastest-going card show experience in the nation. And, but you're also a collector as it, again, is it watered out or change that? Because I think, and there's why I'm asking that, Dan, because I think a lot

people listening a lot of people go, "Man, I want to get the card business." You know, I want to get,

and we know that that's not always rainbows in the card business. But that's more why I'm asking

that perspective to see, well, you think you want to get the card business, but it kind of changes how you think about card. It's kind of like, I want to sell hamburgers and then you still hamburgers, you go, "If I see another hamburger, I'm gonna die." You know what I mean? Like, "You never cook hamburgers at home. You get it now." That makes sense. I understand the question.

“I mean, I think part of what you're getting at is, if you want to sell hamburgers, you don't realize”

that that also involves cleaning the bathrooms at your hamburger joint. You know? And, you know,

you might not want to eat a hamburger again because you're tired of seeing them prior to dealing

with the time. Well, that's right. I think you just can't have this kind of your collectibles and all that. The thing that you love, you know, "Hey!" You know, it's so, well, look, that's a fair question. I think that, you know, for me, I think it just means unfortunate because I get to work in a hobby that I enjoy. You know, I took something that is a hobby. Something people do out of passion, a lot of fun because they enjoy it. And I get to do it full time. Now,

do I get sick of it? You know, it's funny. I really don't. I mean, yeah, I don't feel that way at all.

“I guess I've been an entrepreneur in my whole life. So, typically the way I'm built is I get consumed”

by something and I just got a big drive and I just go go go. So, it's not something that I, I really need a break from or get sick of. Do you have the same interesting collecting as you did? I do have a good fortune, though, that I organise shows. So, the organisation of a show is different than collecting. I imagine if I were buying and selling carbs full time and then selling on what not full time or selling online in some other way or owning a shop or something like that,

and if I did it all the time, maybe I would reach that point. But I'm not there with regard to the show is because look, I'm a vendor at every show. Still, my shows are five, six, seven hundred table shows and I'm still a vendor because, you know, my wife and we have an album full time team run the show once the door is open, I'm a vendor, I put my vendor head on and I'm like a kid on Christmas. I can't wait to be at the show and buying selling cards, talking about cards, talking about, you know,

the hobby and I genuinely can't wait for the show to start on a Saturday. Yeah, I'm the same way on that thing. I will say the one thing that has changed for me is like it was very hard for me to disconnect from the cards. Like in, like, I had all these cards and a lot of my own collection became the store collection and certainly held back peace, like absolute PC stuff. But I have definitely felt a disassociation with the cards. Like, I used to every one was like a treasure, you know,

and I'm having them in the store now. I've disconnected from them in a way that I didn't know that I would be able to. I don't know if that's good or bad, but, you know, you had to kind of separate, you know, business and pleasure, I guess, on some level. You know what I find Ryan and maybe you find this as well as a store owner is when I find some great cards, I take pride in being a good vendor. I take pride even the way I display my cards at a show and I take time to

organize them in a certain way and, and I put thought into it and it's almost like a pride of ownership, a pride in your work, a pride in what you do. And so if I get a collection, I oftentimes will think this will look great at a show. It'll make my booth look great. And so even if it's not

how this enhances, you know, my displays and what I'm bringing to a show for collectors and

I collect those and I'll love this. Oh my god, I'm going to pull it out and people are going to

“come over to my table and be like, oh my god, look at all these great cards and that's what I'm”

that that that fuels me even, you know, so I mean, hopefully you feel the same way. Oh I do, that you're going to have a deal. It can be waxed or whatever, like, oh my god, our our customers are going to love this, you know, and you can find some joy in that. A hundred percent. And we're talking with, uh, front row, Dan, bliss, everything's bliss at front row cards. So, uh, hey, Dan, I got to know, what separates one card show from the next, you know, what, what has made front row,

it's got a two-par, what's made front row successful, but when you walk into a card show, what tells you immediately, whether it's greater or not. Well, you know, again, has a collector, I've been doing a lot of shows and we build our shows in a way that that it would be what I would want to go do as an attendee optimally. Well, how do you make a show optimal? How do you make it the

“best possible show? Like, what do I want to see it a show? And, you know, I think it's in the details.”

There are so many details. So, so many nuances. Like, nobody wants to go to a show where the aisles are so narrow you can't walk through, right? That's just not fair. It's not fair

of the collectors. And so we always have wide aisles, but then we have the conundrum line where

we always have big crowds. So, we've got wide aisles, but then there's still big crowds. And I don't know if there's anything we can do about that. You're just going to have wide aisles and big crowds. It's not going to help you, you know, get to a vendor table. If the vendors got, you know, eight customers, you know, it's still a little of a conundrum. I don't know how to, you know, it's a challenge of success as you have so many people that want to come do a show. We provide

wide aisles, but there's only so much we can do to accommodate that. You know, so collectors are, like, they want to get their first or, you know, if you don't like big crowds, you know,

come on Sunday afternoon. And one of the things we do right here, you ask and like, what makes

a show good, we know that our vendors go home early. They'll let them. If they go home early, they're risking not being allowed to return. And the reason we do that is, so many shows die at the end of the day even on Saturday, but certainly on Sunday, because half the vendors go home

“or more. And then in the 10D walks in the door and you have to noon and half the vendors are gone.”

That's terrible. That's not an investment interest to the attendee. So I think right in for us, it's just really focus focus focus focus on the attendee on the collector giving them a good show. So we've got rules like vendors can't leave early. And we have vendors that hate us for it. They hate us. They're like, "Here's my table. I should be able to go home early." It's like, "All of you, it's not about you. It's about the collector. How do we make the show better for the

collector?" And they think we're passionate about that. And I think it shows in the details. I want to write another example. We want to warn lines to get in and this is something learned. We have long lines to get into our shows. And that's, people like them, like, wait in their lines. Like, going to write down a roller coaster. You have to wait in line for hours to write a roller coaster. And our lines are that long. They really are. Like,

"Wait before the doors." Okay? Just to be clear. Before the show opens. Ryan, one of the things we do that nobody else does, we wristband the entire line. They're respected. We check their tickets. We scan their tickets. We put wristbands on them. We check them in, get their wristbands on them. So when the doors open, they pull right in. You can be at the back of the line. You could arrive, right before the doors. There's, oh my god, there's a long line here. But you're going to be in

more than a couple minutes because you're respected already. So that's just a customer service thing that we do. And it causes effort and money to have staff do that. But by wristbanding the line, we're really taking care of a customers. But there's a thousand different details I want to bore your listeners with. But I think if you come to our shows, you'll find you've got passionate, passionate fans that travel the country to attend our shows because they believe our shows are the best.

Dan, I think I know potentially where your head might be on this next question. But it doesn't matter. I want our audience to hear your answer. So again, I came back in to the hobby in a very

level. And so I had a market like you had events that have been to the highest levels with concerts and all kinds of things and best in class. So brought that to trading cards. And for me, I had done also stadium activation, marketing, all kinds of things. And so I came in with kids

in a different perspective as well. And my third event that I went to was Fanatics Fest.

So, and I noticed it, and so, and it might have been reversed, I might have reversed that order.

“But no matter what, it was one of the three, it might have been the next. I came here and I think”

it was national, the infanaccess. And I think it was that, maybe for the access to the national, care, remember, whatever it was, a lot of time, a lot of the stuff passed. The Fanatics Fest is an experience. And it's half, card show, half brand, activation, sports activation. And it's a different thing. But I'll say this, because I saw it before I went there, which is, I feel like there's an opportunity with these card shows. And I know, you can't, you don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater,

it's about the cards, about the tables, it's about the grumpy, old man, fighting over the one dollar bins. I know, I know, I know, we don't want to lose that. We will not lose grumpy old man at the one dollar table fighting over the, you know, cards that you're getting rid of. Won't get rid of him. But could we not get a little more edgy-tainment, entertainment, something? I feel like the Fanatics Fest is hit on something that's an opportunity for these shows.

Where do you stand in this lane? Well, first of all, I want to challenge you on the

grumpy old guy thing. Oh, he exists there. We can, we can either be real honest and direct like, I am at all the time, or we could deny that that guy exists. That guy exists. And we, you know, we are constantly trying to talk about how to be a better vendor, you know, and how to create a better customer experience. And it's a, it's a, it's a sense of subject going up to an old, old grumpy guy and telling him, stop being old grumpy guy over the customer. Oh, he's not going to be there.

Yeah, we're not going to fight him as more. How I know whether we have more entertainment, trying to retain it, retrain grumpy old vendor guy, but, but on the, on the edgy-tainment side, let's call it,

“I'm a huge fan of what Fanatics is doing. I think the premise of what they're doing,”

particularly at the Fanatics Fest, of bringing in sports fans and giving them a big taste of the hobby with it. And Fanatics is perfectly built for that with, with their athlete relationships, with their, their giant footballed in the jerseys and hats, and, you know, a parallel industry, which is, which is a massive, which applies to everybody. Like you're going to a, a sporting event, and half the people in the stands are wearing jerseys, right,

or they're wearing t-shirts and hats, and, and all that, and that seems like a bigger industry than the, than the hobby, which is, you know, I think, what, the Fanatics guys have said,

“I think it was Mike Mayhand said that, I could have been Michael Rubin, one of the two of them said,”

a collector is the biggest and best fan, right? And so what they're doing by, by kind of, you know, with the Fanatics Fest, I think is brilliant, is brilliant. And I recognize near a gigantic brand, which, I think it's a kind of cool, and very large things, but I'm asking more for a card show leader. I'm getting there, right? Yeah. So my point is, is I believe that, I'm a little bit of a purest, and in that, we're trying to run a card show. So what we do in

our shows is we'll do, at, at our biggest shows, like in Vegas or Pasadena, we'll do things like workshops to, you know, teach people about cards, they don't get ripped off, teach them how to find good deals, teach them how to, what grating is like, and educate them, and even technology,

how technology works, and how to be. I think that's one of the things you started with in the first

part of our conversation is out, there's, there's so much information out there. But I just, I just

we're not doing a lot of the entertainment side of things, because we just really focus on the

“vendors and the collectors and the people that are the die-hards that, well, we also do a trade night”

that we do it's free, we do a free trade night at every show where collectors can buy south trade, show off their cards with each other. It's absolutely free, and it's really a fun event, where even people can what their whistle and buying selling cards, you know, as opposed to just buying selling with vendors. And so, we're a big fan of that, we feel like that's a big entertainment type of element that we bring to every show. But we don't do a lot of the big

activations, because, you know, really we're focused on the show, we're focused on the cards,

we're focused on creating a great experience in the hobby directly versus bells and whistles. That said, we're going to be doing a show here in June at State Farm Stadium in Phoenix, which is an NFL stadium, and that's going to be a lot of fun. I mean, we're actually field level. We're on the floor, on the field in State Farm Stadium, and we're going to do trade night, upstairs in the balcony overlooking the field, and we're going to have full use of the jembo trons

and all the video screens and stuff like that, and we don't have some more activations at that show,

“just because it's a, you know, a really fun stadium show. But I think, again, I'm sorry to be”

on the contrary and for you. No, I expected the contrary, and that's, I'm not saying, you know, I'm not right around answering to this, it's more Europe, it's a, it's opinions, you know, like, and I think it's purest, you know, and I agree with keeping the cards the hero, and there's a fine line of not making the cards the hero, but sometimes the cards could be the hero even more so when you borrow interest. And as long as you don't take,

you know, as long as the interest doesn't become like bigger than the card, it's a fine line, and I would argue that fanatics, fast, went even a little farther than I was, you know, I was kind of there for the card show, and knew it was more than that, but again, I kind of purposely walked in a little bit naive because I wanted to just experience it, and I was like, well, this is kind of, this is, this is like a, you know, a massive dose of what I was think,

like, more than I wanted to chew, but I wanted it to be like 80, you know, 70% cards, and then 30%

“of that, and it was like, it kind of was like 60, 40 cards being the lesser of the two, right?”

And so, but it made me think, and having someone like you just running, you know, amazing shows,

like perspective, and I'm just wondering if there's a co-existence for those things that might even blow up shows even more, but not through the baby out with the bathwater. I think that's a fair question. Um, we occasionally want people doing like live breaks and stuff at some of our shows, parent days does our bagel show, and they've actually used part of our stage to do some live, live eBay stuff on the stage, and that's fun. Um, but understand that,

you know, we don't do autograph guests either, and, yeah, part of the reason is, you know, similar what you say with the access, there are shows that are more autograph show than they are card show, and they'll get like a whole bunch, they might get 40, 50 autograph guests, and those are, they're really fun for collectors, but I know as a vendor, like if I'm a vendor to show, we've had situations, I've had situations, personally, where I've been a vendor at more or less

an autograph show, which was half autographs and half card show, where someone comes over and says, "You know what, I'd love to get that, but I just spent all my money on autographs." And so, it actually hurts the vendor experience, and the other thing is, sometimes, shows will bring on bringing guests as a draw, right? They're bringing in a guest thinking that that'll help boost attendance. We don't have an attendance problem, and we've got that keeping as

you said, "I love your verbiage, keeping the cards the hero." I love that. I'm gonna steal that

had a show not sold out of vendor tables, never. Every show is sold out, and if we get vendors

canceling an estimate, we'll fill it. We would wait at least for every show, so we fill it last minute, and we don't have empty tables or shows, and they're going to the end of the show. I mean, our shows are great experience, and until people experience their shows as a true collector, I think you don't really know. All I can say is we are passionate about creating great shows and

“great events for collectors, and we do it all right, because we feel that this is the best way,”

and not to say we want to pin it. We are very open to ideas. We're always adding new ideas,

we're always adding new things to improve the show, to improve the show, to improve the show,

but I think big fancy activations are kind of fun sometimes, but I don't know that they always enhance the experience. Like for example, for kids, we do a hobby on for kids. Kids tend to under free and every show, and kids do a fun hunt where they walk around and collect stickers from vendors, and then we give them free prizes, and we'll give them only five to six hundred and every show for free, and it's just what we do. And so that's our activation for kids.

Yeah, that makes sense. And I think I'm still digesting like myself, like what's what's the there's not a right or wrong way, but what's the evolution of those experiences?

“And I think that's that's what we're looking for that to, and one of the things we're really proud”

of Ryan is all shows bring a very high percentage of new collectors, people that are new to the hobby entirely. Not just kids, adults, new collectors of the hobby, we do we bring them in and drones, and we're also bringing people who are returning to the hobby like you. So we're going to collect it when they're young, got out of the hobby for what I, you know, because of life, right, you just move on sometimes, and then you come back, you're like, oh yeah, I used to have

that when I was a kid, and then next thing, you know, you're back into the hobby. So we have a lot of green collectors and a lot of returning collectors at our shows, so we can't deeply about given them a good experience. And you know, and that's sometimes even involves, okay, we talked about grading,

“and then teaching them how that works, and I think I said just for a little food options, Dan.”

Like, I think I, we always have food options. Okay, all right, all right, show us the food

snacks, and food has been, the show's I've been to, but I haven't made it in front of her, but Dan has invited, I think, or is now for sure. I'm coming Dan, we can be eight to eight to ten thousand people in every show. So yeah, you definitely got some good. Dan, I want to be conscientious of your time. If you've got a minute, the last thing I want to ask was technology in the hobby. I made the comment and I think it's true, but there's too much information. It's less, and this, this is a little

broader than just information. Curly back into the hobby. I was both excited and disappointment. It partly why I'm in it, because I'm gonna bring tech further into this hobby. How does say that's all my radar? I'm coming into the disappointment side, because you know, fresh eyes to this, because you only came back and now I'd be a couple years ago, so it's fresh in your memory. So I'm telling you, I want to hear what I thought transparency and technology would have been further

along. So what do I mean about that? More e-commerce, more clarity and grading, and why. More, like, yeah, there's apps, there's digital card management, and Luddex, who's a partner of ours, and Brian Ludden are doing and pushing this envelope as far as anyone, but I just thought it'd be further along. You know, like, it felt like we were, we were a month, eighth past the Beckett Guide, instead of 25 years since the Beckett Guide, with technology in some ways, because I was like,

I know it's capable. I've worked with Apple Samsung, Motorola Verizon, the largest brands in the world, and yes, they had large budgets, but it doesn't, it's development costs, production costs, everything else is gone down, since I worked on all of that. And I just thought that walking into trade

anyone has, and unless I can, you know, eat out of a, you know, fire hose of finding the one

kid that has the Griffith Junior rated, like there's just, there's not as much empowerment through technologies I thought there would be. That's, that's been my observation,

“and it's why my store has all of those things. And that's impressive, if that's what you're doing”

your store, I know there are some brands who've tried doing that for shows, you know, allowing or encouraging venues to upload, at least some of their inventory, maybe some of their best stuff, and then make it searchable, and then that way, you could say search for, let's see, we're looking

for a Griffith rookie. And yeah, why do we have to use a simple, simple, simple walking

from table to table? Well, like that, that table is at B7, you know, and exactly, you know, that card is at table B7. Or it's in the hands of collector C2, who's walking around, who loaded his collection up so that everyone knows, and has a beacon with GPS, with text alerts, to say, "Hey, let's meet up at Station 4B and let's make a trade." You know, it's so interesting, and all I can say is this, because I've seen a couple of companies

“have tried doing that, and I think part of the challenge is, I'll just speak from what I see”

it shows, right? For example, we had a company do that at one of our shows, where they were even, you know, in advance, we sent out emails to all the vendors, we encouraged you to upload this, and that, and yeah, the vendors aren't going to do it, because there's a lot of 50 year olds that aren't going to take. I mean, you know, it's okay. Fair enough, but there's a lot that are. There's a lot that are. You'd be surprised. It's not as much old gray-ared as who

sit behind their team. Well, there's nothing old gray-ared, 30 year old too. I know. But there's a lot of people there who's been sophisticated, but I'm going to tell you that what I'll find is particularly the morning in a show. Collectors are so anxious to run into the show and scavenge, like a garage sale, and there's one here on this scurry to like find the best deals, and there's so driven by that to all those run into the doors. They wouldn't know where

they were going, and they're running in to quickly scan tables to find stuff they might like, and you couldn't distract them with a shiny object, what alone, make them take the time to go look up, because nothing radically, they could be looking up before their live, or they could look up in the line, before they enter, and the people are so this, or so driven to just run in and

scavenge that, you know, it'd be hard to stop them first thing in the morning, but once they do that

for a little bit, then they're like, okay, let me calm down. Now I can't find the griffy car. Let me look at my phone and do that. So in theory, it would be a really nice thing to do, and once they do that, I don't know. Yeah, one example then, I just hear it. I want to tell you why, in a busy show, vendors are selling inventory so fast that it is difficult, if they upload their inventory, at least for an affordable car show, if they upload their inventory under an

app, 50% of it's going to be turned over in a day or two. And so, you know, it's going to go so fast, they're going to sell it anyway, and think that might be one of the reasons vendors don't care, and then 50% of it. If I was actually talking less about the vendors and more about the attendees, you know, but the vendors got to put the, put the data in, you know, somebody's got to data entry, or if you're a 10 days in an app, they scan all their collection. If digital collection,

management was more universal, which it would be one day. I mean, it's going to be, it's coming. Yeah, there's, there's different services, and, you know, somebody's got to get it right, you know,

“somebody's got it, you know, there's, there's different services that, yeah, and that's how that”

you talk to someone. Yeah, I'm surprised it's not right already. That's all I was saying with someone coming into the hobby, like that was my point of view was, I was surprised it's not more universal and more universally right already coming in. So it should be there, I told you, you should be there, because you need, like, some of the high selling stuff, the stuff that moves really fast,

you got to sell it so fast while you even take the time to scan it, or then selling it on whatnot,

or you be alive, or fanatics live, there's selling things so fast that they aren't scanning it on there. But, you know, you know, you know, somebody needs to do that. Maybe you put all your best cards, your premium, really there, you know, a modern vintage card you put them on the ops, so that that premium buyer knows what a find you for that one of one, or for that old Mickey

“Manel card. Yeah, and I think, one to one digital trading, digital trade rooms, like high”

and digital, like, there's a, I could name a hundred things that I just thought that just came to my mind, like, I know what capable of technology. So coming back into the hobby, I was like, okay, I kind of just, I was so green coming back in. I had put it on the shelf, physically, literally, had not even accidentally looked at a card in 20 years. And so, but then I've been in tech and ads and marketing. And so coming back in from that perspective, that's just where I was like,

I know, this, this, this, yeah, I fully agree with you that, that Mark can be done. However, I'll give you the, however, um, the online experience provides that, you know, meaning you can search right now on eBay or other platforms on the marketplaces, from Alex has a marketplace, PSA has a marketplace, my slabs is a marketplace,

really club is a marketplace. There's always different places you could just search

to find if you're looking for something specific. If you're looking for something specific,

“online might be most of the way to go. The beauty, the beauty, and I think the law of card shows”

is about sandivity, right? It's about finding the thing that you didn't even know you were looking for. You're going to a cartoon, you see something, you never knew you wanted to saw it. And then you're like, oh my god, I have to have that. Or you think about it, you walk away and you're like, okay, I got to go back to that table because I can't stop thinking about that card, and it's that's serendipity in that lock and the search, the hunt, the find of things you don't

even know you're looking for. And finding good deals, for example, sometimes it's good deals,

and sometimes it's not, it's about the grail or finding a card that you just walk for yourself. That's the beauty of a card show. That's the appeal of a card show. Yeah, 100%. That's the picture hunter. The picture hunter is definitely a real thing, and that can't be replaced by technology, so the surprise and delight that comes with going to a card show, especially, exactly what I meant is by the bliss for a row.

It's a bliss. You got so many perfect names for the thing, front row and bliss. It's a marker and a rider. I can have like a field day. But you nailed it, Dan. I'll say this. But here's where more of where I'm talking about, and I think there can be two worlds here. I don't think one has to take over the other. It's more of the technology enabling a better a collector experience. Right now in my town, there could be five semi lonely people

that are all into cards. And they have no idea that they'd all love to be at Starbucks today to do a little trade-up, because they have no way of knowing who's who, digital men, technology could connect the collectors better than it does. And maybe bring them together.

“And I think so I think there's, I don't think you have to throw the baby out of the bathwater.”

I don't think you have to throw out everything that's great about the hobby and the experience and the treasure hunting for technology to take another step towards the enablement of this great industry is all I'm saying. You know, Ryan, I think there's a lot of great ideas that you're suggesting at the same time the market tells us what it wants. You know, so I'll just agree with that Dan. No one will dare to do this. It truly does. If you think every one of the iPhone or iPod?

I'm going to tell you something. There's a couple, there's a couple of different aspects here, okay. Some of the services that we're talking about, some people are trying to do. And maybe they're not executing it well enough. That could be it. Maybe people are trying it and it's not working well enough. Maybe they don't have, you know, as you've talked about, the tried to see it through

push through to the other side before they start to get the proof points where they get scale

and it works. You know, you gotta have that drive to get something done and completed. And on the other level, you know, I can see what you're going with this. I'm a huge fan of Steve Jobs.

“And that's part of what we do. People don't know they wanted the iPhone until they got it, right?”

And I feel the same way about what our current show is. We're delivering a product that people even push back on. They push back on it and we still stick to our guns about how we're doing it specifically because we feel like we're delivering an iPhone. And we're giving an iPhone and then we're now seeing the fruits of that. You know, being that our shows are growing so fast. Being that our shows are so successful. The collectors love our shows and they don't

even know why, but they love our shows. And the devil's and the details were doing all the little things that make it great. And if we actually listen to them about everything they ask for, we will probably ruin what we're doing. So we're delivering effectively an iPhone version of a card show, the best show that we feel that we can deliver and give them the best experience. Yeah, I was doing it right because you take everything with a grain of salt, the feedback

“directly from the customers because that's the best way to go out of business is to take every”

comment and turn it into action. You know, you have to sort of create the vision. And not to stand. We don't take it in and weigh it. We do consider it. We do weigh the pros and cons. And we do make changes all the time. But there's some things we don't change. And maybe we will change them eventually. Maybe something will happen that we will change some of our similar principles. Clearly, you're doing a lot right then. My questions are more from a market

leader. They're perspective on some of these topics. You know, like you were the fastest growing in a car show in America, one of. And clearly have it nailed in the moment. That's why I think it's important to ask you questions of less. Why are things so rosy and more? How

“do they stay rosy? And what is the balance of some of these trends that are out there?”

These are questions we ask ourselves every day. We're always looking, but I think it's the

comfortable place of how do we create a better customer experience and just constantly improving. You know, we're always improving. So, you're looking to show one of us a year ago and we're miles ahead of that now. And next year it'll be even better, even better, even better. And you know, constantly improving. Sometimes that means we're adding things. Sometimes it means we're cutting things. You know, sometimes that's the move. You know, it's about, you know, keeping it simple

and keeping it great. Because you can only be great at so many things. You know, we can't be great at everything. So we focus on what we can be great at and then we're the best at it. Clearly, it shows. And I appreciate your passion, your honesty and your attractness with how you're doing things. And hey, how can you by learn more about what

front rows up to? Well, first go to our website, front rowcardshow.com. All of our shows are listed

there. And come check out our show. We're growing. We're expanding East. Most of our shows have been West Coast thus far. Our first East Coast show being Atlanta. And we're also going to be adding Orlando later in the year. Awesome. Can't wait to get one of them Dan and walk around and have lots of food options and lots of card options. I like cord dogs and sushi, you know, so like I got to have a little bit of everything. I need like carnival stuff. Well, maybe it may be

sushi and the stick will catch on and that'll be the thing. I though, you'd ever know. Dan, Bliss, front row. Dan, I appreciate your man. All right. Thank you for adding me Ryan and, you know, keep collecting and now good luck on your shop. That's exciting. Thank you, man. Hey, guys, you ought to find us thecollectorNation.com. Go to the app store. Download it. You'll see the full version. All of us there. Our best content is on our app. And of course, collect your station. If

you're in South Carolina, give us a ring drop in or download that app as well. We got you covered. We're here to cover all facets of the collectible hobby. We'll see next time on the collector nation. Thanks for tuning into the show. Be sure to follow us on your go-to podcast platform and catch

Ryan Alfred. Now get out there and collect yours.