Episode 545: Sarah Shahi: Playing Sex/Life Billie & The Courage To Live and Love Fully As A Woman

Crash it.

“Welcome to Habits and Hassel. We have a very special guest.”

Actually, you're my girl crush. I didn't even tell you that. What I want you to do, I didn't. Like, a platonic, if I were to be gay, you were the girl I would want to go out with. What? No, when you want to hear that all the time.

I mean, yes. Why the way we have Sarah Shaw, I got introduced to her through that show sex life on Netflix, which I'm sure, like, half the planet got introduced to you. Because that show, did that show blow you up?

It did. Yeah. There were 170 million people that tuned into that show in its first year.

Yeah. And it just, it did. It put me on this platform that I didn't expect. And you know, it's like as an actress, when you sign on to that role, you never sign on anticipating the end result. So it's like, I just was very compelled to tell the story. Those show and the scripts were really paralleling.

Some of the things I was going through. And I was just like, I have to do this. And so I did. And it just blew up in a way that was so unexpected. And I'm very grateful for it because it's allowed me to connect with a lot of women.

And that's where my book was sort of birthed was from the themes that was explored back then. Oh, absolutely. Yeah.

Because first of all, what year?

Because the reason why I think it like hit such a chord or struck such a chord was so many people. I'm sure so many, well, so many women have probably felt that way are going through this. Like, if you guys hadn't seen the show sex life and you don't know what we're talking about.

“But I don't know, you're living under a rock, but you should definitely watch it.”

Because it's worth the binge. It's worth the binge. Especially season one is worth a binge. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

And so what, wait, so what year did you actually film that show? We filmed that show in the fall of 2020. So I think by the time everyone sort of opened back up that was like August or September of 2020. Oh, right, COVID. Yeah.

And then, um, yeah, and then it came out in 2020, late 2021 is when that first season came out. Right. And so, okay, so, because you weren't actress, people don't know. Like, you were like a very, you were a working actress doing lots of big shows prior to sex life. Wasn't like this year like first thing into your first entree into entertainment.

No, no, not at all.

“I've been, you know, fortunate enough to have a long standing career.”

But it was primarily in network television. Right. You know, I was playing cops and lawyers and stuff like that. Right. And interest was that the show?

Person of interest was one. There was something else called freely legal, something else called life. I was on the L word. Oh, right. That was a big show.

Yeah, that was a big show. Yeah.

And, you know, I just always, I mean, I, this is one of the subjects I talk about the book.

I was always wanting to make that transition into things that felt darker, more dangerous. Where I got to, like, cuss and say fuck. Yeah. I wanted to do that for the longest time. But I was too scared to say no to the opportunities that were, that were coming my way.

And my reps at the time were very encouraging, we're very encouraging to me to just stay in that lane. And then there just came a day where I was just like, this is not what I came here to do. Like, this is not why I quit my life in Texas. I came out here to be the, like, greedy actress who talks about, or who gets to do things that feel inspiring and period pieces. And, you know, just like material that resonated within me.

And actually quit working. Like, when I say quit, I say, I turn down every offer that came my way for close to two years until I got sex life. Really? And I was, yeah, I was being offered so much money, like show runners and writers were writing shows for me. And I was, and they still felt very procedural.

And I just turned down so much. And my reps were having a heart attack daily. And I was just like, if I do this, I am climbing back into that same hole I am trying to get out of. Yeah. Like, I have to trust, I have to trust myself.

I have to trust God, universe, whatever you want to call it, that it's coming. And, you know, I was one step away from asking for a TikTok tutorial before I finally got sex life. Really? Yeah, I was like, either I need to come out with like a crystal infused line of energy bars. Or I need like a TikTok dance lesson because I got to pay some bills.

And then I got a show called City on a Hill.

And it was like this Boston period piece where I got to like, you know, rock, French acrylics and bangs and speak with an accent.

And I just remember when the show came out, all the reviews they were like, and Sarah Shawhe, the network darling, like, who knew she could do a period piece with accents. And I was like, I knew, I knew. Really? And then that lasted for a year, that show I was only on that show for a year.

“And then again, I found myself back in the never ending chokehold of the universe, right?”

Oh, what the fuck now? And then another year went by until I got sex life. So what shows did you have? Did you turn down? Because you believed in yourself and you wanted to kind of hold up.

I love them. We're written for me. And the fact that I turned them down, they didn't end up going. Oh, they didn't end up going. They didn't end up going.

And then there was another one. I can't remember the name of it. But it was something that Colby Smolders ended up doing is on ABC. I think it only lasted for six episodes. She's a marvelous actress.

And I thought she did great in it. But yeah, that was another one that was, I remember the writer. He wrote a graphic novel based on my character from person of interest. And they wanted to build a show off of that. And it was with the same guys who do white lotus, like my quite in that company.

And I remember reading the first few episodes.

And I was like, nothing in it. Really? It's not it. And I was going to be executive producer, like a whole thing. My reps were like, why?

It's like they were gobsmacked in my decision. But I was like, nope, this is not going to make me happy. This is not why I came out here. Right. Because it's so easy to get into that hamster reel.

Like you're making money. You're doing all the network shows. Yeah. And to stop that, like cold stop that. And just like believe that you're going to, that you're meant for some different path.

Yeah. And actually like, hold for it. Yeah. Very, very difficult. But there's money like right there.

Of course. The golden handcuffs.

“And that's what I had done for 17 years prior to getting sex life.”

And I reached a point where I was just like, my soul is like decaying on the answer. Right. I was drinking a lot. I, there were just really unhealthy habits that I was doing to try to cope with the fact that I was so miserable. And then that's when I was like, I have got to take a chance on myself.

Because if I don't do it now, nobody, though, 100%. So then what had it sex, how did it come about? How, like, why did they choose you? How did it come about? So that's an interesting story in itself.

So it was an audition. You know, sometimes I get offers other times I go in and audition. And I'm one of those strange breeds of actors who actually enjoys auditioning. You do. Most don't.

Yeah, I do enjoy the process because I treat it like it's a job. Yeah. Like I've already got the job and I put a lot of work into it. And when I go in, I just let it go. And I feel like I'm there to shoot.

And this is my interpretation. And I'm here to play and have the best fucking time while I'm in that room for, you know, 10 minutes. So I love to audition. When it's something that's exciting, obviously. Yeah.

And then, sorry, I've just got something to all care about. No, that's okay. Anyway. And also tell us by the way, like, how it comes, like, for people who don't know. Like, so they call your agent.

Yeah. Like, okay, we have this show. And they give you a script of practice and prepare. And then you walk in or do they give it to you? I don't know.

They don't always give you, they don't always give you the script.

But what they'll give you are what's called sides, which are just like 5 to 10 pages of the audition material.

“So I remember with this one though, I had the first three scripts.”

I had the first three scripts and I had the material for the audition, which were three different scenes. And I was reading it going, oh my God. Like, these words feel like they were ripped from the pages of my heart. Like, what the fuck? This is all too real.

And, you know, like, most women prior to sex, what I mean, doing sex life. I was like, most women. I felt overworked. I was overburdened. I was, you know, tired, like self care for me. It looked like adding met a muscle to every meal. You know, I'm picking parsley out of my teeth for 10 minutes.

And I, you know, I was carrying the burden at home at work. It was just like a lot. And I didn't, because you weren't working at this point. I mean, I, you know, there were little things that would. But that was my story for a long time.

Yeah. It wasn't just the year prior to sex life. Right. Right. Like, that was how I was living life and how I thought I was supposed to live life.

Right. You know, I was like, you know, women have been fed this narrative for the longest time. Where it's like, you're not supposed to want for anything more than to support your, you know, partner in your children. You are here in service to them.

Your needs come last. Your dreams get buried underneath everyone else's.

Right. I have a smile on your face. Right. All the brownies for the bake sale need to be, you know, homemade, you know, make every soccer practice and PTA meeting or you're to be judged by the other moms.

And I was turning myself into a pretzel trying to abide by this archaic narrative. And everywhere you turn, it's being sold to you, whether it's film movies, art. I mean, even, you know, not to go back to sex life. But even sexually speaking, like women's sexuality was placed last. Yeah.

You know, it's like we are here to service men.

That's what has always been shown.

“So that was my, but that's why also it did strike a court, right?”

Right. People saw that in a net, it wasn't, like, Netflix is basically network TV for all, Intensive purposes now, right? People watch Netflix more than they watch, you know, Yeah, this is very different, but yeah, people a lot of people watch.

Yeah. And so the fact that, like, it was like flipped, like, even the fact that, like, that one scene and, like, the third, whatever, the with Adam in the locker room. Yeah, that, like, broke the internet. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And it's just, you know, I felt like the first season of that show did such a beautiful job of raw storytelling. Yeah. It's like real, like real, connective, heart felt storytelling.

Like it really did a great job of telling the stories that are always in people's minds.

You know what I mean?

“So thinking and that's why things that people are constantly thinking, like,”

that is the versus stability, you know, like all of it, all of it. Just having the courage to question your reality. And that was the thing. It's prior to sex life. I was too scared to question my reality.

Yeah. You know, it's like, but then when I got the role of Billy, it tells what happens. You go into it. Yeah. So I go into the interview and I go into the audition.

And I have a few friends that were friends with the showrunner creator of the show. And prior to me going in, my friends had texted me and they were like, we told her about you, we told her how much this resonates with your life. Sarah, if you don't get this role, you should consider quitting acting. And I was like, oh, my God, no pressure.

So I go in and like I said, there were three scenes or four scenes. The very last scene and I go in like completely as if I'm ready to shoot. Like that's how prepared I am. And then I go in, just let it go and have a great time and see what inspiration hits in the moment and just do that. And there's something that came over me.

I don't know what it was, but by the time I got to the fourth scene or the last scene, I froze and it was the scene where I have to break down with the moms. We're all walking outside of Soho. And I passed by like a cookie shop and it used to be the tattoo parlour. And it was the tattoo parlour where Brad got the bees for the two bees.

And I'm like, what is this and this used to be a tattoo parlour? And I don't know. Like I had, it was that break down scene. I remember that scene. And whatever happened, I don't know maybe I was in my head too much. I forgot it.

And even I was looking at the pages. Like I couldn't remember the lines and the producers and the writer. They were like, that's okay. You can, you know, use your script. And I used my script and it was almost like I couldn't read. Like I just completely froze and it was like I was reading the words for the first time.

And I was like, I don't know what's happening right now. But I don't know how to fake things. And I'm not going to sit here and insult your intelligence with a fake performance. I'm not going to try. So I'm going to leave right now.

And I left. And I sat on the audition was on large amount, full of art, large amount and malros.

“I'll never forget there was a Chipotle and a liquor store on the corner.”

I got a bottle of Malagro and like a Jackie and a Chipotle burrito. And I just sat on the corner. I left my car there. I called myself and Uber to take me home. And I just cried and cried and cried. And you know, it had been a year since I had worked.

And I was just like, I guess it's just not for me.

Like I guess I will never make it.

Three days later, my reps call me. My agent manager called me. And they were like, so you're in the mix. And I was like, what? I mean the mix.

What do you mean? I didn't even finish the audition. And they were like, well, there was just something about your energy. They were like, she's Billy. She's got Billy in her.

So was between me and like three other girls. Do you know who also was? No, I don't know. And I never ask and I don't care. And it was between me and three others.

And they were like, they do want you to go back in and retake. And I was like, fuck yeah, they do game on. So I went in. It was so funny. The casting director, she like, because I, you know,

So like, my version of a stay at home mom. Like, this is glammed up for me, right? So it's like, I'm like stay at home mom. And at the time, you know, I have three children. My twins were four at the time.

So it's like, every day I woke up. I look like I got hit by a truck. So I've got, you know, either dried yogurt stains or last night's art. Installation on my sweaters or boogers. Like, I'm like, I don't know what this is.

So I went in looking like my interpretation of what a stay at home mom looks like. I didn't really have my hair brush. I think I had a ratty ponytail.

And I remember the casting director Denise Chamey and who's amazing.

And I love her. And she's very, she's got incredible taste. She's like, hands me a brush. She was like, oh my god. And I, and I was like, I love you.

But I don't want to because my version of a stay at home mom is not this like, glossy, like, perfect blowout. That's not what a stay at home mom is.

“You know, you know, and I really want to honor how I think this woman feels.”

And she was like, okay, but we're not shooting a fucking documentary. Like, this is not playing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we settled on a, a little bit like brushing up the hair. But I still otherwise I still kept everything the way I wanted it to be.

And then, yeah, and then I, that was in December. The holidays went by. Then I found out it was between me and one more person. And then in January, I found out that it was me. And then so did they already have the guy picked?

Did they already have that? I was the first person picked. I was the first person hired. And then everybody was sort of built around around me around you. Because the chemistry was like off the chain.

So like, yeah, clearly. Yeah, clearly. I mean, but that is again why that show hit. Yes, I do think that, you know, you can't, you can't like fake that. No, and it wasn't fake.

And obviously, yeah. And no, it was a very beautiful time I think in both of our lives. We clearly drew one another to one another.

And, you know, the relationship fed us both in incredible ways.

And then it was time to go our different paths. You know, it's like sometimes the goose just doesn't lay the golden egg anymore. And there's no table flipping. There's no big drama. Well, it's just recognizing that, you know, we are no longer able to serve each other's highest good.

“And you have to have the courage to let each other go.”

Because it was a while. How long did you guys date for five years? Four years? Yeah. Five years.

Wow. And because like that, so do you guys, are you guys friends now? Or what's the? I'd rather not comment on things like that on the state of where things are right now. But I do know that, you know, like I said,

there is no nothing but love and gratitude, you know, for the time that I was with him. Well, so how did he even find him? Was he an act? Was he a big actor?

Because I don't know that part. Was he an act? I really don't know that part either. You know, he is Australian. And I know he and the showrunner had done another show together called Unreal.

So I know she was familiar with him and and his work based on that. But as to like why they went with her? Like I don't know though. You had no you didn't like really have any involvement in who they paid. Yeah.

I had no involvement. Really. Yeah. So it could have been a disaster. You know what I mean?

Like it could have gone the other way. But no. It didn't. Yeah. Did don't they ever do like chemistry?

They do. Yeah. But they didn't with this one with me. Yeah. They didn't with this one.

They didn't in the first season.

And in the second season. We did do a chemistry. But it was they did not go. They they went their own way with you know who they chose for the second season and stuff. For my love interest.

Right right right. So then basically why why are they bring it back? I mean the show was so popular. The show was popular. But I think that the arc in the end or.

Yeah. You know it was one of those things where. Before we even began the second season. They had shortened the order from six to eight or from eight to six. They had shortened it already.

“So I think from the beginning their plan was always just a two season thing.”

Really two season fairy tale. Wow. So basically okay. So then what was it from the whole experience? Like by the way, it's like so much of an art imitating life with your life.

Like that was. Yeah. It was a lot. You know like my you know. I was not plagued by the what ifs of the past.

You know the way Billy was. But the ways in which I really resonated with her is I just felt like. I wasn't living in my highest truth. I was not living a life that I felt like I was meant to live. Like I had an appetite for something that was much bigger than what I was playing out.

You know, and those are the ways in which we I really resonated with her.

I was too scared to question in the past. Like when you get people at coming to you and asking you a question like fans was the number one question that you get or comment that you get. From just from the show alone. Just how did you do it? Yeah.

I don't you have the courage. You know, because I think there is an interesting phenomenon about courage. Where people think that courage is doing something without fear. But what I have learned is that that's not the case.

“You have to carry your fear along with you.”

You know, it's like it's silly to say don't be afraid of making a gigantic change, right? Or not not to be afraid like everyone's fear factor is so different, right? So, but I think that, you know, courage is not the absence of fear, but it's walking alongside it anyway. And knowing that it's going to be there. But I'm going to do this thing anyway because my vision of the future is so delicious.

It's pulling me into that. I cannot stay in this anymore. You know, I think for me sometimes, you know, and I'm a recovering people, please are very open about that. And like I will stay in a situation that's not right for me because it's easier to stay than to leave. And it's easier to assume the burdens of whatever's going on wrong.

Like I've always, you know, like I'm a capricorn, I'm a middle child.

I'm used to, I grew up in a women shelter for part of my childhood. Like I'm used to putting a lot on my shoulders and going, no, no, no, no, I'll take it from you. I'm strong enough, I can do this. But then when I started realizing was over time, I was collapsing. And I had nothing for myself anymore.

And I was constantly coming last. And so that's what I'm getting better at is realizing too that it's like, I have to, it's the moment where staying is harder than leaving. You know, totally. So is that what happened with you? I think that's what happened with me.

Like now knowing what you know. Yeah.

“Did it play out better or worse than you could expect?”

It always plays out better. I mean, it doesn't feel like that in the moment. Never, it always feels worse. It always, it, you know, it's like, you know, I'm, I'm also somebody who believes in not having any regrets. Mm-hmm.

So like, you know, and I talk about that in the book, two regrets or for Cicis. Like, so I would much rather jump and ask for forgiveness later than be on my deathbed and look back and be like, I wonder what would have happened. Mm-hmm. If I had just taken that chance. Yes.

You know, so it's like, I make a lot of decisions like that. Sometimes the decisions turn out, well, sometimes they don't. But even in the moments with they don't, it's still a lesson I need to learn. Yeah. For my highest growth.

So even that, I can't regret. Yeah. So, but yeah, but it was, um, I talk about that a lot.

I always say rejection is always better than regret.

Because rejection you eventually get over, right? Yeah. But regret will live with you forever. Yeah.

“I don't like living in the unknown in that sense.”

Especially when you have something that's just like nagging you. Like it's like an inch that you got to scratch. It's like just fucking scratching it. Yeah. Exactly.

We're stuck in heaven. You get rejected. You say, they say, no, you didn't get the position. You didn't go, okay, fine. Right.

And then you remove it. Exactly. And then you kind of like, then you move on. Then another door opens. But you honored that part of yourself.

Absolutely. You made a lot of pivis because you just set yourself.

You were like, what did you always think that you were going to be an actress.

You're living in Texas, right? Yeah. You're like a Dallas chair. Yeah. Yeah.

I think you were a cheerleader. Yeah. I read something or I saw something. I couldn't have been a podcast. I was listening to that Robert Altman, who's like really well known.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Since past, but he was essentially the godfather of film. Everybody from Scorsese to Spielberg to massive.

You know, they all cite him as one of the biggest cinematic. Did he help you get your foot in the door? He did. So, yes, I'd always wanted to be an actress. Didn't really know how to go about it, living in Texas.

You know, it's like roller skating on the moon sounded more likely than landing a yogurt commercial. And this is when you were, like, before Dallas Cowboys or like before. No, I was a Dallas coverage. I know. Did you want to be an actress before all that?

Yeah. When you were a kid, it was a child. You know. I was either going to be an actress or like a neurosurgeon. Yeah.

It was like one of the other. Yeah. Very closely related fields. And so I, but I was also a musical theater. And I just felt this thing.

Like being on stage felt so calming to me. And like it, it served my nervous system so well. I felt like I was free falling. I was just always so comfortable up there.

And one of the background dancers.

“Like I think I was talking about being an actress or something.”

One of the background dancers was like, Oh, why don't you try out for the Dallas coverage here leaders because back in 1995, they were on SNL. And I was like, Oh, that's it. That's my way in. I'll try out.

So I drove to Texas Stadium one day. Like I didn't think to like look it up online. Like I didn't think to do any of those things. I just drove there. And sure enough, they had auditions were like in three weeks.

And I mean, it was just the perfect like this kiss met, right? Like divine divine divine. So I signed up. Were you a good dancer? Did you know how to do anything?

I had never, I was always an athlete in school.

Yeah. I was a runner, was a basketball player. And I had never danced, but I could dance. Like I had taken dance as like a kid. Yeah.

Like I was just always able to move. I was just like that. But even though I was not a steady dancer, it was always in me. Great. You can pick up, you know, choreography.

Yeah. Like yeah.

“Like it was always, anything artsy just always came to me.”

Yeah. And so don't ask me to start a fire. Or like I won't do anything. You know, that requires that side of the brain. Because I'm, I was just destined to be an art somehow.

But yeah, like I can listen when you cry or make you a great playlist. But you know, learning how to detoxify like water. Yeah. I can't do that for you. Yeah.

You can't do that.

But I won't ask you to work.

Yeah. So then yeah. So I, I tried out. There were like over 500 girls that tried out. And they only pick 27, 28 or 27.

Those girls, we go to, there's a training camp. You go to training camp. And then from training camp. They make another few cuts as well. So I was one of the lucky ones who hard to get on there.

By the way, from what I understood. They make Hollywood look like child's playing in the sandbox. You know that there's actually a Netflix show about how hard it is. I know. Yeah.

I bet you know that. It, yeah. No, it's, it's very much like that. It's very rigorous. It's very competitive.

And yeah, it's challenging. I've a lot of respect for those girls who go through it. Because you really have to do it out of love. Because you don't get paid anything. Yeah.

You know, so, no, I've a lot of respect for them. And what they go through. So then. But you make. Yeah.

You make it through it. Yeah. I made the team. And Robert Altman came to Texas to film a movie called Dr. Team The Women that like lived Tyler.

Kate Hudson, Richard Geer, Farrah Fossett. They were all on. And in the movie, Kate Hudson and lived Tyler were two leaders. So he used our rehearsal facilities. And we were all like background performers in the scenes where the girls were cheerleaders.

I don't know why this turned out the way it did again, divine. I didn't know who Robert Altman was, right? Like I was 19. Like I did not know about cinema the way I know about it now. Yeah.

And so. But for whatever reason, he really took a big liking to me. And he invited me. I had my own chair next to him at video village where the monitors were set up in the director and writer and everything they watched was happening.

They watched the cameras. I had my own chair next to him every day for two weeks. Like they'd be like, Sarah, your chair is next to Bobby. Like we buddied up. I couldn't believe it.

Like 19 year old me and this like 70 year old man were like this. Kindred spirits for the two weeks he was there. And we would talk about everything but acting. Like he was so interested in my path at school, he was so interested about my life. Like, you know, my mom, you know, I'm, you know, Persian descent.

So he had so many questions about that. And what growing up in Texas was like, and he had a nephew at MIT. And we were talking about his nephew. And finally, it was like his fourth or fifth to last date there. He was like, what does it you want to do?

So while I want to be an actress, I just don't know how to do it out here.

“And he goes, you know, I think you have something.”

I think you have what it takes. I'm going to give you my office number and my cell number. And I want you to give me a call if you ever move out to LA. I think you have something. So I went home that night.

I googled him. Again, I'm like, I don't know who this guy is. And I saw all the movies. He had directed. And I remember I like yelled to my mom in the kitchen.

I was like, mom. The guy who directed Popeyes telling me I got a shot. So that was it. I packed up my cherry red pickup truck.

Moved out to LA and never looked back.

Why? So what did he do? What was the door? Like the kind of what's interesting is he was actually still in. He was still in Texas filming.

Yeah. So we were playing phone tag for about three months. Okay. Where we could not actually connect. But within my first two three days here, I found an acting class.

Because again, I had never acted a day in my life.

I did not go to school for it. I was an English major at SMU. English and journalism. And I, so I got into this acting class. And the teacher of the class was like, I want to set you up with a manager.

So I go in to this manager's office.

“And he told me it was like, all right, what are your credits?”

I'm like, I was like the tree in a second grade play. Like, I don't have credits. And he was like, okay, go prepare two monologues. One serious, one comedic come back and do it for me. I'm like, what's a monologue?

He was like, go to the store on sensible of arts called Samuel French. They'll help you out. It was like, all right. So I go get my little monologues prepared. Go back.

I perform it for him. He takes me on as a client. I start auditioning immediately. And every room I go to, you know, I was so great. And people would be like, how long have you been acting?

Because I even know to memorize it. Like, I was awful. I awful. And they, like, I just wasn't prepared. Like, I didn't know what to do.

Right. And they were like, how long have you been acting? And I'd be like, 10 minutes. I don't know, like, since Tuesday. And they're like, how did you come to act?

And they're like, do you know Robert Altman? And their jaws would hit the ground, right? Yeah. And then so little by little, the casting directors would tell me to get my education on him. They're like, go watch this movie.

Go watch that movie. Learn about who he is. Like, you can't name drop Robert Altman and not know who he is. I'm like, okay. So I started watching his stuff.

And then this is the sad part. About four months later, we would, you know, again, we were playing phone tag prior to that. The next month that he called me back.

And it was always as a system.

Being like, Sarah, we've got Bobby for you. You know, please call us at your earliest convenience. I was too scared to call him back because I was so intimidated. Right. There was this man that I once conversed with so freely,

but, you know, ignorance is bliss. Once I was aware of his power and his gravity, I was like, oh my God, I don't know what to say to him. Like, what is he doing talking to me? I'm nobody.

So I was too scared to call him back. And then about three or four months after that, I found out he died. He had passed. So he was just my, he was meant to be just like my acting.

The casual. The casual. Yeah. He was my catalyst. The game of the push that I needed to be here.

Because he said, just because he said to you, you have what it takes. You sure you have something. And that was like that, but that was just enough. That was not the legal home.

And research we was and jump. That's amazing.

But he never actually gave you a role in a movie or like opened a door

and said, hey, in the sense that like, give this woman a girl. A girl. Yeah. It was just that like that belief in you. Yeah.

Was enough. Yeah. It's amazing. Yeah. Yeah.

It's really cool. That is really cool. Yeah. So then, okay. So like talk about this book.

So then it's called Life is Lifey. Yeah. And what prompted it? Yeah. What kind of made you think?

Okay. Now is the time to write a book. Yeah. So when I was getting my divorce, it was over COVID. And I thought I was going to write like a divorce manifesto

or like a how to divorce. You know, there's so many emotions that I was experiencing

“from like, what do you do with the pictures on the wall?”

Like, where does the ring go? Like, how do you, you know, like, what happens if I find his shirt? You know what I mean? Like, there were just so many things that I was going through that I didn't know what to do with or how to process or who to turn to because I was the first person

of my friends to get it for me. Really? Are they all now? No. Not all of them.

But like a few of them did. Yeah. A few of them did. And so I thought I was going to write like a how to divorce book. And like, what to do with the emotions as they come up?

What do you do with the love? Oh, you know, because the love just doesn't disappear. Where does the love go that you still feel for the other person? You know? And then sex life and then the world kind of opened back up.

This was all during COVID. And I was writing, writing, writing, writing. Then sex life started later that year. I went back to work. I shelved that for a while.

And then in 2023, the actor strike hit. And I wrote an article for glamour magazine called Why Desire is not a dirty word. And it went viral. And there were so many women that flocked that art to that article that thanked me for writing it. But I was like, I wonder.

“Like, that gave me the confidence to be like, I think I might have a voice that people will listen to, like, as a writer.”

So I started working on the proposal. And what I wanted it to feel like was like your favorite girl group chat. So like the girl group chat where you talk about where you bitch about your partner. You bitch about the kids. You bitch about like hormonal things and progesterone and changes in your body.

You talk about fucking blow jobs that you talk about like, you know, dating.

And I just wanted it to feel like a permission slip for anybody who wants, like, a second act.

That's better than the first. And that's a good way of saying it. Yeah. And so I was like, this is the, you know, it's the book for, you know, like, what happens when you get the partner and the, or the marriage.

“And you have the kids and you have the job, but they're, but you're not happy, right?”

And so I mean, it speaks to a wide range of people, like the amount of 20 year olds or like mothers who buy this book for their daughters. You know, who are in college or lost or they're listening to other people's opinions and they lose their sense of self. Like I get tons of those too. So it's not just for people who like have the dream so to speak and are not happy. But I just wanted it to hit a wide range of topics.

And again, because I was put on such a platform with sex life, I wanted all my wisdom. Like I refuse to believe that my pain is ever in vain. You know, it's like if I went through something, it was for a damn reason.

And I'm going to use my experience to help somebody else may not necessarily mean that my wisdom is for them.

But if I can inspire them to make a choice that feels more authentic to who they are, then I have purpose. Then that's my purpose. You know, it's like at the end of the day, we're all here just to walk each other home. I am, I am no separate from you. I am no separate from you.

I'm no separate from anybody from anybody. My ex has been my ex partners, like my children, like anybody I come into contact with.

“We are all here for the purpose of this oneness, this togetherness.”

And we all go to the same place in the end. Yeah, we do. So it's like I just have really found such a very gratifying sense of purpose in inspiring people to be their most authentic self. Yeah. And you'll see in the book, like the way the book is even formatted.

It's like an encyclopedia.

It's an encyclopedia of life. It's, you know, each chapter, each alphabet has two chapters, adulting, aging, blow jobs, boundaries. And for me, I feel like advice is not a one size fits all. So at the end of each chapter, there's a turn to turn the mirror back on you section, where I encourage the reader, like I take them through a series of really reflective questions. So they can find their truth.

Because I feel like in this age where, you know, postmates tells us what to watch next. All the algorithms tell us what to order next. Or sorry, you may tell us what to eat next. All the all the streaming services tell us what to watch next. So watch next.

Riot tells us who to talk to next. It's like we've lost the ability to really like quiet the peanut gallery. And to just check in with ourselves and to see what we need.

“And like I believe that the smartest person in the room is you.”

And we just have to cultivate that relationship a little bit more. So the questions at the end of each chapter are also designed to just quiet the monkey mind. And to just get really, really, really focused on what you want, you know. And along the way, it's, you know, funny stories, sad stories. Yeah.

What has been like the most difficult thing about going through all of this stuff in public, right? Like that's a really hard thing. You said yourself like your public figure has been like, I mean, it's like people are asking you questions. Yeah, you know. Yeah.

The thing that I've learned and I've, I've built up a healthy relationship with it all. You know, there's that great Dr. Sue's quote, "Those who matter don't mind and those who mind don't matter." There was a, I like that. There was a period of time where I had to turn off my comments because people really like to talk out of the fucking sides of their mouths.

Mm-hmm. People without enough to do. They really love to interject their opinion on something. Totally. When they have no idea what's going on.

No. They don't know the backstory. You know, they just see something online or on Instagram. And like I said, they just are so fucking bored with their own lives. They just want to tell you how to live yours.

So I, there was a, I had to develop some thick skin, you know. So there was a period of time where I really had to sort of disconnect from all of that stuff. And again, come to that belief, you know, that you do not matter to me. I do not care what you think. I know who I am.

You know, the person who lays her head down at night and looks at herself in the mirror. I'm really proud of who she is. You're useless opinion means nothing to me. So yeah, so I, I have found a healthy dissociation with it. But like most people, I have human moments.

You know, where I start to get a little vulnerable. I have to say with the break up I experienced last year. There was a lot of fodder that came my way regarding that too. And I don't know if it did or not with him. But actually was very touched by it.

Oh. I, which was an interesting perspective to take because I was like, wow. This is so even though it was like reliving the experience twice.

And then news of it broke a little while long a few weeks after.

And it was like everywhere I turned. There was another comment. There was another picture. There was another article. And I was like, wow.

This is actually very touching that this relationship meant so much to people. That they were affected by the ending of it. Yeah. And like, that's actually very sweet. So I was touched by it.

That's a good, that's a really good perspective.

“I think it represented so much to people because of how they see themselves in that situation.”

Yeah, yeah. I know the show really hit people in a very beautiful, vulnerable way. You know, it's like our love was very touching and represented a lot of hope for people. And it was, or they wish they had that. Yeah.

It was wish fulfillment, right? And so that's why, too. It's like when it ended and the comments that came in and the amount of attention that I got. I was like, oh, wow. Like how to help flattering that my love that I had for this person or the love that we shared,

you know, was felt on like this global level.

Yeah. It's really cool. How did you guys end the relationship? Yeah, yeah. Are you dating anybody now?

Yeah. Um, dating's an interesting thing. Yes. It is an interesting thing. I am on Ryan.

I will say that. You want, are you like it? No. Because I haven't heard one person say they like it. No.

I don't like it. I don't like it. And I'm actually on it less and less and less and less and less. They just feel so superficial. It just feels really superficial.

And you know, I think I have to be in a very surface type of mood. Right. To be on the app and enjoy being on the app. But for the most part, I'm somebody who enjoy like I'm not built for shallow connections. I'm not built for one night stands.

I'm not built for casual. You know, that it's not fulfilling like the sacred soulful part of myself in any way. Right. So it's like, so I don't know how much longer I'll be on there. But yeah, it would be bought on any dates from there.

I won't talk about that. You won't talk about that. Okay.

“But because I bet you get like I can't even imagine you must be inundated.”

It is. You know, I'm sure there are people who have a more full inbox than I do. But like there's a lot of founders. There's a lot of yes. No borders.

There's a lot of others. Yeah, I'm just like, yeah, I'm so done with actors. By the way, I was going to do an actor again. Uh-huh. I will never know.

You know what it is. Is it's like actors are so fucking showy. They're so showy with their energy, with like their charm. And look, I have fallen prey to a lot of them. Yeah.

It's not to say it doesn't work. But I also know that as an actor and using my time off. Yeah. So essentially build another career for myself. I know the majority of actors don't do that.

So it's like they're waiting by the phone. You know, they can be quite lazy. And there's just no bigger turnoff for me than laziness. Totally. I don't like it.

Like if all you do is wait for the phone to ring and work out. Like that's all you do. Yeah. You are so not for me. Like you got to be at go build a fucking house.

Yeah. Go fucking to go do something with that stuff. Like right? So it's like, I'm just like, and again, there is no judgment here because I know I'm going to say this.

And then someone is going to turn it into like, you know, me kissing somebody. I'm not, I'm not judging anybody. I just know for. Yeah.

I am not going to be with somebody who was like just an actor.

“Like you have to have something else going on.”

Totally. Like life is too fun. Life is too inspirational to just sit around and not do anything. And just wait for the phone to ring. Or go for hikes all day long.

Like I fucking can't. Yeah. So for hikes all day anyway. I mean people can't like it. It's, you'd be surprised.

Well, that's LA though. I think that LA is like very much as suitably. That is. Yeah. But this is where I live.

Yeah. So what I know. Exactly. But yeah. How about some founders?

Would you go with some founders? Would you go with some what they find? Yeah. The majority of them have found fucking shit. They're like, they say they're a founder.

Like they're founded not much, basically.

You know. So it's like sure. I love a good entrepreneur. Yeah. You know, it's like I definitely see myself in that space.

You know, I would, you know what I would love. I would love to find somebody that because I'm big into mental health. Yeah. I'm big into mental health. I'm big into like mental wellness and wanting to help people.

I would love to find somebody who is equally attracted to that. And like I could build either wellness center.

Like somebody who is equally passionate about that.

“And like the guy's perspective, the female perspective.”

You know, I would, I would love that. I would love that for me. Yeah.

You're putting it up first.

Yeah. Well, you come to the right place because this is like the world I'm in is very much about the wellness health entrepreneurial. Oh, really? Yeah.

That's literally like every word you just said is literally my world. Like I heard it here first. Yeah. That's good. Exactly.

You just put it. You couldn't have put it out to a more appropriate platform. Oh, incredible. Yeah.

“So like you don't have a podcast yet, but you, your, you would potentially do a podcast.”

Yeah, I would. I would. I would do a podcast.

I would build like a wellness center.

Like a retreat or, you know, I've been, I've spoken. I've been in a canyon ranch. Yeah. I've been through a lot of things. Yeah.

I could do like that. Like I would love to find like these things really inspire me. Right. I have found this space so interesting. And I'm such a natural student of it all that, you know, to find somebody who felt that way

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So, give you an example. I know when you walked in we talked about a healer for example, but in the space of wellness, there's a lot of different verticals, let's say. What exactly do you really partake in?

“Do you have a particular wellness routine or habits that you do?”

I mean, yes, you love or you're very interested in mental health and mental wellness. But would you do to make your mental health? Yeah. Yeah, I already. Yeah.

Every day can look a little different depending on where I'm at and what I need. You know, it's like I do have healers that I work with. But I'm on kind of a detox from all that stuff right now. Nature's a big thing for me. I'm outside every day doing something.

Whether it's going for walks, runs, connecting with trees, looking up at the sky. Like nature is just such a grounding thing for me that I have to be a part of it. Somehow I have to be in the in the arms of Mother Nature and some respect. The other thing that I love is I love frequency music. Like every night?

No. Oh. So it's like there's different hurts like 444 or 580. There's just different hurts of frequency music. And sometimes I'll fall asleep to it.

Other times I might close my eyes and meditate to it. You know, other times meditation for me, I try to meditate every day. You know, some days I may not be able to just depending on what the needs of the kids are and my life looks like. But at least for about 15 minutes a day, whether it happens at morning or at night. Sometimes it's just complete silence where I don't need any sort of stimulation and I'm just quiet.

And I just let the thoughts come up. And I tell myself that, you know, like I am whole, like I don't need any sort of outside validation. Like I am safe, like all of those things I am love. Everything that I need am it's already in me. It's not out there.

Just let the thoughts come and go. Other times if it's something I want to create for myself. Then it's getting on the frequency of that creation. And then other times it could be something guided. And I also dance a lot.

You do? Yeah. I believe that, you know, energy is just, emotions are energy in motion, okay?

It's just emotion that's stuck in the body.

So dancing, running, any sort of movement stretching. I will put my music on so loud in the house and I will dance until I smile. And that's really what it's become about is it's like, I talk about this in the book. I have a chapter called Follow Your Happy, which it's like, when you don't know what to do. Or you're trying to reach for a better feeling emotion.

“It's kind of impossible to go from grief to external joy, right?”

So just reach for the next thing that feels just a tiny bit better. And you do that by following your happy. What makes you the tiniest bit happier in this next moment? What is it to dance? Is it to go for a drive?

Is it to go get your nails done? Is it to have the extra cookie? Is it to call a friend?

Is it to cancel on a friend?

Is it to put on a funny show? Like, what is it that can elevate you just a tiny bit? And in terms of our emotions? An emotion is only as big of a deal as we allow it to be. Something like joy is no more or less important than something like anger or grief or sadness.

You know, what's like things are only as heavy as you make it. So whenever I'm experiencing an emotion that's not something I want to feel or feels contrasting, I don't ignore it and I don't push it away because I've learned that that only makes things come back tenfold. You can't sweep it under the rug. And the only way out is in.

So it's like, I really give myself that chance to sit with it and see what it's trying to tell me.

“Like, what is this pain trying to teach me right now about myself?”

Is it myself worth? That's being questioned. I feel like I'm not good enough because, you know, someone didn't call me back or I didn't get the opportunity that I wanted or whatever it was. Like, is it self worth?

Is it love? Is it abandonment issues from childhood? You know, so it's like I really sit with it. I try to figure out what it's there to teach me. And then I just kind of become the observer of the thought and tell myself a different story.

I create a different narrative within myself. Right. You reframe what it is. I reframe what it is. I give you a great example whenever my ex and I broke up last year.

You know, I think this interesting thing happens when you break up with a or when a relationship ends where you start to romanticize the person, right? It's like, it's like you get amnesia. And the last however many years just kind of you forget and the person has a halo over their heads.

“But in actuality, you didn't get there overnight, right?”

The signs were there for a while. It's like a downward slope you're going on until finally you reach the bottom. But I found myself romanticizing, I found myself really missing. And I was like, and I have to snap myself out of it. So what I did is I changed the narrative.

Instead of it being about the relationship and about him, I made it about me. And anytime I have those thoughts, I'd go, wow, look at the depths of my heart. Look at how big my love is. Look at how courageous I am in love. Like, my heart, my love makes me feel like I have wings.

It makes me feel like I can fly. And that would make me cry because I'd be like, oh my God.

Heart, like you've taken care of me so many times and you've allowed me to feel such incredible things.

And like what greater privilege is it to have an organ that each time it breaks? It puts itself back together only to be stronger than it was before. Thank you, thank you, thank you. So I would turn the narrative around and that helped me so much. So how can you tell?

And I talk about all of this in the book. I like all of this is in the book. The book is kind of like a combo between a memoir and self-invent. And personal development and personal stories. It's like a mixture of all of them.

And, but what you just said, like these are things that, you know, a lot of people struggle with doing, right? Like what you just did right there and how like you, you took the reaction and reversed it. How did you learn to do that? Joe Dumpenza. Oh, so someone kind of helped me.

And I talk about it in here too. I talk about Joe Dumpenza. I love Joe Dumpenza, Abraham Hicks. You know, we were talking about my friend Oliver, the spiritual actor. I have this woman named Shannon Quinn.

That is a manifesting coach that I've studied with for a while. I also talk about her in there. Like, I'm very upfront about, I don't, I don't like to cover it. My, no, I'm very, very worried. So you know, it's like, no.

I want to put the people that have helped me and the things that I've learned. Like, I am here to share, you know, so. So I, I also, I talk about it all in there too. Yeah, that's true. You know, it's, yeah, I talk about all that.

What I like about that also is like, nobody gets anywhere without the help of others, right? Who are experts?

Yeah, we are not here. No. I, too, live as an island unto ourselves. Right. You know, we're human beings.

We are souls having this human experience connecting to one another. Right.

“You know, even like my acting coach, like I have an acting coach, do you know?”

Like, I adore him. You know what I mean? I'm so upfront about all the teachers and the people who have helped me pay for my path, because it's like, I would want somebody to share with me. 100%.

And like, you're, and you're seeking out people who are really good in that one area, to help you learn needle. Yeah. Or they really resonate with me. Right.

You know what I mean? It's like, they may not be for everybody, and that's fine.

But you never know until you try.

I never know until that's the whole, that's like your whole model, right? Yeah. Like, never know unless you try, right? Because it works. It can happen.

Exactly. Great. Then go to someone else. No 100%. So like, you've learned so much from this one breakup.

It sounds like you've had to do a lot of fun. I've learned a lot from both. You know, it's like, I got my PhD in pain from my divorce. Yeah. You know, I felt like, you know, it's like,

I just remember looking at the pieces of my life were shattered on the floor. And I'm like, how the hell do I put this back together? Like seeing, seeing, you know, his wet signature on the divorce papers. It's like somebody dropped a piano on my toe. You know what I mean?

“It's like, you know, again, even though this was the best thing for both people involved”

for the children. It was the right thing. Right. It doesn't mean it doesn't hurt like hell. Well, you're together for how many of your 18, 20 years.

That's a long time. That's the way we grew up together with children. Yeah. And what a privilege. You know, it's like it's not a failure to be somebody for that long of a time.

You know, I create children. What a success. That is.

I never understood why people see the fact that if a marriage breaks up over a long period

of time, that isn't a failure. That's a, that's a win. I think it's because we, you know, again, I feel like it's because we've really bought into this idea that there's one person for the rest of our lives. You know, and it's become such a societal construct that we have all bought into.

And look, I did too. You know, and I would still love to find somebody that I could be with that one person for the rest of our lives, and we could, you know, die and be buried on top of each other and come back as ghosts and haunt people in the next lifetime. Right.

I have a very deep and loyal definition of how I love. And, and, you know, when you get married, you're not planning your divorce. Right. You know, you think you're going to be with somebody forever. Right.

And there's something very beautiful in that. But at the same time, I feel like when it's time to call it quits. A lot of times we are afraid to because we are connected to this one story. When that story may not be the best for us. No, exactly.

It's that disconnection is very difficult. Right. And so it's hard. And I, I, you know, tell people who are questioning that time and their lives and, you know, to just be. Give yourself grace.

Give yourself grace. You give yourself grace. You trust. You show up authentically. That's another big thing.

It's like in order to get to where you're meant to go. You have to show up authentically. Yeah. You can't, you can't show up as a version of yourself. That's not true.

You can't pretend. And even though you might lose people along the way, even though it's going to be hard.

Even though it takes practice and it's scary to go against what you've always done.

Mm-hmm.

“That's the only way you're going to get to live out your truth.”

Yes. I totally agree with you. Like, do you, what's like, what's like, you're like in the next. Now I'm not going to, I know it's all about being in the moment with you and being authentic. Yeah.

But like, if you could foreshadow the next couple of years of your life, what would it be? Like, do you want to be in a relationship again? I would love to. I would love to be in a relationship again. I definitely, you know, I've learned so much about myself in this last little over a year

now of being really single and what it means to sit with myself. Like, I know how I move. I know what my nervous system feels like. I know my warmth. I know my, I know my soft and I know my fire, right?

Like, I know there are parts of myself in the past that I subdued because of my relationships in the past. And now getting this year to really explore what my femininity looks like, you know, how I operate in the world. I'm not going to do that again. I'm not going to dim my flame because it makes someone else uncomfortable. It doesn't mean I'm going to go and like, you know, fuck everybody.

That's not what I'm getting at here. I'm just saying there are, there were natural parts of my of how I operate in the world of how I burned of how, you know, my fire, which show up my spark, which show up that made relationships in the past uncomfortable. And so in order to keep them safe, I pulled back. And so it's like, I'm not willing to do that anymore because now I've had over a year of practicing what it feels like. And it feels really great to be me.

Do you feel strange though to be single, what you haven't been single, if you're holding, you know what I mean for so, so long. I mean, I was chasing anything with a dick when it first happened.

None of it worked out. None of it worked out. Right. None of it worked out. And there was a reason why.

And now looking back, I'm like, oh my god, I am so happy. None of that worked out. I am so happy. All of those people ghosted me. Like, I didn't even get a chance to like go out on dates for the longest time.

Like, I've had two dates in over a year.

It's not crazy. Like looking at you, I would never think that.

Well, but you hear that. Thanks for saying that. No, I'm sure, and even listening to this. Thanks for saying that. But you know, it's just a combo, right?

“Of like, you know, I'm a heart cell to begin with, right?”

What? Like, yeah, like, I don't like a lot of people. Okay, that's just, then that they're a heart cell. You're not a heart cell. Okay, so they're a heart cell.

Yeah, they're like a heart cell. It's hard to break me down. And it's hard to get my interest. Okay, because I'm not physically motivated. Yeah, I understand that.

There has to be, like, yes, of course, I, the physical, for me, there has to be an attraction. But like, I am more mentally stimulated. So if, if those two things are not present, I, I'm just not here for a coffee date. Like, I don't care.

It's a waste of my time. Yeah. And rather be alone. I'd rather read. I'd rather do a Joe dispens a meditation or go sit in a sound bath or a sauna.

Like, I just don't care. Yeah, hang out home with my kids. Like, I don't give a fuck. So I'm not one of those that's like, oh, try not see what happens. Nah, not I agree.

So, so yeah. And, but yeah, I would love to continue to build, like, my brand in this space, which is a new space for me. You know, the acting and, you know, paradise season two is coming out. We're about to start our season three of a couple other projects that I've written

that are in development. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So I'd love those to start up. I founded a production company called The School for Women, which I'm very excited about.

“And all my projects that I do there, like, life is life.”

I'm actually looking to option that into a series right now. I have another story called The Texas tornado that Warner Brothers is interested. We'll see, we're in the process of making the deal.

It's all about the first ever female lawyer in Texas in the 1960s.

And she was very radical in which she did. Anyway, but yeah, so there's those will all be produced under the School of Women. The School for Women. And that's the, the basis of that company is, again, it's meant to inspire uplifts. Like, every project, the motivating inspirational force behind it will be encouraging women to be

either most authentic selves. I love that you say it at all. And yes, sorry, what I think, and I have looking for somebody. I am looking for somebody. I'm going to put that out there.

I want somebody, like, I'm not looking for anything serious right now. Like, I don't know if I should talk to a kid. Yeah, I don't like what I don't talk to. I don't want anything serious right now because I'm busy. And I don't want something that's like a daily thing.

But I would love to meet somebody that has the potential. And it can grow into something like long term. But, you know, for now, just have, like, really hot vacations. And, you know, the occasional dates when we have time. And, well, do you like younger older?

Like, what do you like, what's your type? I mean, we know what Adam looks like. You know, you have to set his name. So I don't know if I'm even allowed to say his name because you say my ex.

“But is that your physical type or just who happened to you had a lot of chemistry?”

But what is your type? Like, if you couldn't kind of pick somebody, besides the fact that you don't want them to be lazy, you want them to have something else. Yeah, you want them to, like, you know, have, like, other shit going on. You don't want them to be an actor.

I think if you line up the people I've been connected to, you'd see there are, like, solary. There are some similarities. You know, it's like I want somebody who takes care of themselves who looks a certain way. Because these are things that I do as well, right?

That will conjure percent. So, yeah, I'm five foot four. But, like, I'm little. I'm funcised. But my energy's very big.

Yeah. So, you know, is that, is that, have you found that to be a hindrance or benefit when you date people? I don't know. I haven't thought about it one way or another.

It's all worked out in the end. It's all worked out. But what I'm saying is, yeah, we're living in a world where you said yourself, like, people want to shrink people to make themselves feel better. Yeah.

So, and would you have a big personality? Yes. Yeah. So, I guess what happens. And I'm sure a lot of women can resonate with this.

Or even men, I don't, yeah, possibly, is that, you know, when you first meet somebody,

you're so attracted to that spark that they have. And then over time, when you want to own them, when you want to, you know, settle down into a more domestic style, those things that you loved make you feel insecure. And you don't like that anymore. So, it's like, but it's just a means to control is all it is.

It's a way to control. It's an insecurity. And, you know, it's like, I'm somebody who done a lot of work on myself. I'm not insecure. I mean, sure.

I'm not going to say I'm not insecure because that's not true. I am positive. There will be moments that I will be triggered, but I know, if I'm triggered with insecurity,

That has nothing to do with them.

So, I will never put that on a partner.

That's for me to look at, right? So, yeah, like, I'm just not, I don't, and I want my partner to feel the same of that. Right. So, I was talking more of the opposite, right?

Like, how the, how these got, like, you're talking about guys, right? We're talking about dating people who are successful, obviously. Yeah. Who have, like, the pedagree that's just say, on paper, that would be the kind of person you want to date. A lot of times, I've noticed, those guys want a very specific type of girl.

Oh, imagine they're doing your, and, like, you know, like that type of, like, I don't know.

“I mean, I don't like, that's what I'm saying.”

Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I can be demure. Like, I have, you know, as women, we all are so multifaceted. Yeah. Like, I'm definitely, you know, in a, in a crowd of people, I'm not the one that's the loudest.

I will tell you that. Like, I prefer, like, I'm, I'm, like, all my friends who know me and even my, you know, past partners and whatever.

I am a loner who loves people.

Yes, that's how I was described myself, too. Yeah. I am a loner. I love intimate things. I don't love being the center of attention.

Right. It's different if I'm working or if I'm in front of a camera, it's very different. Other than that, I can go out and not even say a word anybody and feel very fulfilled. Yeah. So I'm not like, showy in that sense, but at the same time, when that area's rising gets ignited.

Like, I love that. I'm going to stop it. No, I don't know. I love it. You're, you're actually a breath of fresh air in the space of entertainment.

Like, I will say for women, no, like, who are afters is. I'd like, you know, like, you seem very chill and like down to earth and not very. Cell things for saying that. No, it's true. I mean, like, because that's a lot of that came from my upbringing, too.

Like, I had a dad who held a gun in my head when I was six. You know, I talked about all this in the book. My mom and I were in and out of women shelters. You know, it's like, we grew up middle to low class. Everything I've ever earned in life, I've had to work for.

You know, my life has not been a basket or has not been a walk in the park. You know, so it's like, I've been through a lot of shit. Like, I feel like I've already led nine lives. You know, I've been in my home births with my children. You know, I had twins.

Like, my son was born breach. Like, I don't, it's like, like, not that that's a, like a bad thing. You know, I'm just saying, like, I have, um, you've lived. I've lived. I've, I've been to battle.

Yeah. And I mean, and so it's like, and I've come out on the other side. Realizing that none of this is important. Yeah. None of this is important.

If you stripped all of this away, who are you? You know, and I've gotten to a place in my life where it's like, I really, I like who I am. Yeah. You know, the process of the book, like acting, all of that stuff. It could go away tomorrow.

Like nothing in here would change. Mm-hmm. You know, it doesn't define me. It doesn't.

“That's what they, you're not just an actress.”

You are all these, a mom, but this. All that, like, I think that you do have like a whole, I think you have a career in all of this mental health. You know, I hope so, you know, and I also just believe too, like, as women, you know, it's like, we are, we're, we're the Madonna and the whore.

Yeah. Right. You're the saint and the sinner. Like, I refuse to believe that after kids, we, we can't embrace our femininity in the way that we use to pre-kids.

Like, if you'll hornier than ever these days. Right. Good for you. It's like, I am more, I listen to my body more. I'm more and two with my body more.

I know how, like, how I like to move. And I know what gets me going. Like, I just, I, yeah, that's the thing is I've really come to accept who we are while being wives and mothers and all those other things. Totally.

Life only gets better if you choose that.

It's a decision, basically.

It is. It's a decision. Yeah.

“So then, end with this, then, what other stuff do you do daily?”

Okay. We know you meditate. We know that you, you meditate. You meditate. Yeah.

I literally, I have a Bronco. I put my top down every fucking day. I blast my music. I let my hair go wild and I feel free. And for me, there's something about that that is so, like, freeing

and calming to my nervous system. So the thing is, it's like, you know, being a mom, being an actress, being in this field, whatever, navigating, dating, all that other bullshit. It's like, your nervous system can get pretty activated. I'll stuff three dogs.

They fight, like, whatever. So it's like, I, I look, I, when I, when I, I look for those moments, where I can downgrade, you know, and they come in a lot of different forms. Even if it's going to a coffee shop for an hour before school pick up and putting in my AirPods and listening to a Joe dispense a talk about how to

regulate your nervous system. Like, I, like, I have all these, you know, spiritual teachers, of whom I listen to their videos when I feel inspired too.

That's a great, what I haven't heard.

Like, is that similar also to, like, brown, you know, brown music, white music? Um, oh, like the white noise. Yeah, yeah, brown noise, white noise. I know.

Yes, I mean, I, I know what that is, and that feels like, I don't know if it's the same thing or not. I know. I don't know if it's the same thing. But like, if you look up, if you, if you, if you, there's an app called

Brainwaves, you can also look it up on YouTube. But you, you put in, like, frequency music and certain frequencies are supposed to, help encourage certain things within your body. Because everything is energy. Everything is energy.

Yeah. Everything is energy. I love that. I'm going to actually, I'm going to try that. Yeah, go for it.

Yeah. And there's, there are, um, some of it's by neural. So it activates better if you put, uh, your pods on. Yeah, headphones on. Like, calm.

Have you heard of calm? Yes. I have heard of calm. I think it's more meditative, right? It's more meditations.

Yeah. There's the music. Well, it's all very loud.

So it's like, the, like, you basically put it on your, you know, your head sound.

Yeah. And it's like different. They're trying as if super loud. It's like, like, it's like different. I think it's called, yeah.

Look up called calm. Brainwaves. Okay. I'm looking at brainwaves.

“Um, there's also some that's called, I think it's called isotonic,”

where you don't need the headphones for it. It just will activate whatever. But yeah, there's this one called fearless awakening. That starts off with these times. And it's 17 minutes long.

And every time I listen to that, I just start crying. There's something about that. And then I was just being in gratitude. You know, it's like, um, I don't have a gratitude journal per say. But if when I'm having like a really off day,

I quickly, I'm like, listing things that I'm grateful for. And it helps. You know, and it's just, it, it, it's a reminder. That at the end of the day, it's all,

gravy. Like it's all, it's all just icing on the cake because we're here, because we're experiencing it.

You know, like one of the things that I go back to,

like I'm like, you know what? This problem, whatever it is. It's not that big of a deal because everybody I love woke up today. Yeah. It's true.

That's a great perspective. That's not guaranteed. No. And by the way, I've been leaving it on this very shallow note. Are you not wearing a stitch of makeup right now?

No, I'm wearing a makeup. No, you're not. Are you saying you? I have my scare on. Oh, give it on your face.

No, no, no. Like, like, how are you? What have tides, man? I want a GHQU. The compliment ever.

Yeah, the Wolverine staff. Yeah. I'm really into that. Okay. What else are you taking?

Are you on any other supplements or? I, I, I didn't watch for gestorone. You do take pictures. Okay. And I talk about it in the book.

Yeah. I talk about all my secrets are in the book. Okay. I want to know a few right now. Yeah.

Yeah. I just got on that recently, too, which I really love. Because I feel like that's just been really good for my energy. Yeah. And then, progesterone, I started a few years ago.

And I really love that.

“I really think that's the trick to, like, really good skin and, like, plump and whatever.”

Because it's the happy hormone. You know, it also just helps everything flow down there. Yeah. Helps regulate all your home. And when your progesterone is off, it's like everything is off.

Yeah. Your sleep, like, all of it. And then I'm also really big every six weeks or so. I do something insane to my face. Like, I blast it with a torch pretty much.

I have these two facialists that I swear by. Cynthia Franco, you can find trying Instagram and Dr. Ellie. You can also find trying Instagram. Dr. Ellie is a Korean acupuncturist who has all the machines from Korea. She literally puts things on my face that, like, make my cheeks like move up.

Like, it's like some weird stimulation thing where you're just like, what does it feel like you're being zapped for an hour. But my god does it work. And we also do more invasive stuff. And we do the salmon.

Yeah. She created that. Like, that's how OG she is. She's the one who created that, like, over 12 years ago and did it on the Kardashians. And then Cynthia, she does soft wave.

She does soft wave. But I go for her. I go to her for, like, every two weeks for just like, like, facials, but they are intense facials with, like, lymphatic. And she does this electromagnetic thing with gloves.

It's like, over time, you do that enough times. You know, it's like, yeah, your skin gets used to reacting that way. So those are a kind of a big part of my beauty. Yeah, I'll send it to you on Instagram. Okay.

Because until both of them I sent you, absolutely.

“Because I mean, as we're talking on my dad, what is she doing for her face?”

Oh, my god. You're supposed to see people. And I do think those peptides make a difference. Because, you know, you're supposed to cycle off, right? Yeah.

Anytime I'm on my off cycle, I can associate difference. I'm like, oh, my god. Really? Like, I'm calling my doctor. My hormone doctor, I'm like, when can I get back on?

He's like, give it the month. I'm like, can I do three weeks? Are you serious? Who's your hormone doctor? Um, Dr. Sandra.

Chris Isante. Yeah. I know who he is. Yeah. Yeah.

Go to him. He's amazing. Yeah. A lot of my friends go to him. He's popular.

Yeah. He's great. He's very popular. We live in a great time. You know, we live in a great time where it's like, look,

Okay.

I like, I talk about it in my aging chapter.

Yeah. It's like, there is no point in trying to pretend like you're 45 and you want to look like you're 20. That is a losing battle and actually think it makes you look older. Yeah.

It does. Right. So it's like, there's no point in doing that. But we do live in a really wonderful age of time. We live in a wonderful time in era where we have a lot of things that are disposed.

Yeah. And if you do your research and you have the means, you really can just kind of preserve

“and slow things down, but it's also important to do that internally too.”

You know, it's not just external, right? It's important to biologically also do that. So it's a, it's an exciting era we live in. It really is. It's you.

All these tips and tricks.

I'm like so excited. By the way, ships taken a note pad and written notes down because you got the audience. I know. Because they happen to have to go back and like, let's run this. Yeah.

Yeah. It's all the dogs. There's at any time. I'm happy to tell you all of that. I want those.

I want the institutions. I want all of this information. Yeah. You guys have to get this book. I'm telling you, life is life.

There's so many. There's a, there are all these like nice little. All in there. It's also available on audio. Oh, yes.

On the audio. Yeah. Because we made a couple best sellers list, which I'm very proud of. We made. We made LA times.

No, I want to make more. So if you know anybody. Yeah. We made LA times and USA today. Okay.

That's still great. Yeah. It's great. Right.

I mean, I never expected to make one of them.

Considering this was a book like my whole team at one point three years ago. They were like, you don't have a voice. You shouldn't write. They said that to you. Maybe you should change the team.

I did. Okay. Good. That's not a very good team. Yeah.

Yeah.

“That's not like Robert Altman who said I think you have something.”

That's a really bad. All right. This was the team that was like freaking out when I was turning down all that procedural. Yes. Yeah.

Yes. Because it's like money in their pocket short term. Yes. I get it. Yeah.

You're so much for coming on. I'm so much for having me. This has been such a pleasure. No. It's been my pleasure.

Honestly. I've loved you from afar for a couple of years. So I'm glad that we actually got this happening. Yeah. Thank you.

Me too. And I'm happy to make a new connection. Yes. That's good. This is amazing.

Okay.

“You guys go check out Life is Lifey with Owl.”

Sarah Shaw's book. And you guys will not be disappointed. Thank you. Of course. Bye.

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