Last Update on the Left - Episode 13 - Henry Lee Lucas Revisited - Part I

Rolling roll and roll and what what did you do the Henry Lucas episode 2015 actually I'm looking right here seven almost almost ten years ago Yeah, nine years

“A month from now wow nine years nine years. So yeah, yeah, I'll read later. I'll let her answer a similar answer. So it's a nine long year”

Nine years Never get them back

Never get them back never get younger. Holy get no order

Family Come across To my own friends Help me Nine long years podcast

And you never gonna be the same nine long years since we've covered this project nine years many years since we actually started Yes, much longer than that. It's much longer right it my wife and I's first kiss was it the Henry Li Lucas episode. Yeah, I actually do remember Reporting one of the episodes have Henry really Lucas after one of our first dates Natalie was staying inside of the living room and I was doing the episode in the other room

Oh, welcome to last update on the left The only romantic story. You're gonna hear in connection to Henry really look One of the most disgusting killers to ever confess to many many crimes He made me horny

“Do you ever think do you ever got a passionate kiss can really look us from a corpse?”

Do you take the old as I was not having you laid on top of you? Oh, I would imagine you'd have to wait until it was it had been dead long enough For it to really get a bunch of fluids going and then you flop it on top of you and the more fluids you get the more passionate the kisses Yeah, passion fruit Welcome to the update of Henry Li Lucas and what do we know more of now?

How foolish it he was back jam full of shit exactly what I was gonna say. I can't pull I've heard this guy's name a million times I can't believe this one pisses me off more than any of it. Yeah, right?

We'll never leave people gotta wait a murder. Yes, and we'll never get over the fact that he just it's the sounds of Henry

Lucas drink in the milkshakes In the documentary series, it's a lot. I I fashion killers. What is called? Yeah, I never want to see a man with a graveyard for a mouth smiling with a mouth full of vanilla milkshake Does it just that look of he's like he's a decent good correction straw man. Oh, yeah, oh, I got a lot about the straw man I said looks like a girl had her mно shit a nice wife. Yes, I

Now stick period juice inside. Yeah, I got that one too Henry Lucas those you don't know this guy is for many many years like Henry Lucas when you talked about like

Biggest body counts out of all the Syracuse throughout the 80s and 90s. It was always Henry Lucas

No, never top no one ever top over a hundred plus is what people would always say It would go up to 600 some people would say yes at some points, but it has come out in recent years and it was always rumored throughout

“Like any time I think the the book that we used at the time I can't remember or the two books we used”

One of them is still one of my favorite true crime books ever, but the the paperback that we used Yeah, regular supermarket paperback like those would allude to the possibility that he didn't kill as many as he says that he killed But I mean true crime books at least back in the 80s and 90s like they went for the most sensationalist Gory a story that you could possibly tell everyone and we love them and the honestly last podcast and left was a direct reaction To all of this material we had read all over the years about like and and wanted to and they have this tone and all had the same tone and

Henry Lucas is such a great Example of it and to so you guys know so that will catch you up real quick But all of you basically know who Henry Lucas is if you've gotten to this podcast already

He was arrested for the first time in

1959 that was the first

“1960 was the first he committed his first murder in 1960. When was he in jail?”

He was in jail from 1960 until 1970 then he was again Throne in jail until about 1976 he claims that his most active times were between we're in the late 70s and the early 80s Let's go ahead. Let's just give a full refresher. Yeah, it has been nine fucking years nine years ago

I went into the studio Nine years later came out married Why am I like this What is it continue so like after you and Natalie had sex for the first time yeah, were you like laying there and like so like there's this guy And Lucas no, yes

That was all of our first conversations

How do you think he got Caroline? So, but I've never not been like those. He carefully went and recently Lucas the thank you

Hey, Henry Lucas. Hey, thanks for helping me get with my beautiful beautiful wife and wherever you are Fucking hell. I hope that you could still like us hear us make love Caroline, I didn't listen to an episode of last podcast until we moved in together. That was just a protector Although we did have that that is one of the first things that we did Bond-on was like her extreme in like a conversation that we had about

David Parker right. Yeah, yeah about the toy box killer great who it turns out was worse than this First conversation than this and I had with Natalie. Yeah far worse conversation. Yeah, yes, they've a part of his one of the world This guy's piss was just a liar. Yeah, but I mean, he did kill three people three people. Yeah, you know, and it's weird to think they look at him and be like not much Yeah, he expected you said he was 600 now. It's three so all right continue to run down Freddy. Yeah So he was born 1936 we talk a lot actually

“I think canaryly Lucas may have been when we coined the term serial killer soup. Yeah when we talked about like there with serial killers”

There are certain factors that come in a play that create a serial killer Again having a no leg sex worker mother that could drag around in a cart is one of you. Yeah, it's father No legs

No legs. I always try to look for my similarity

He was at the cart and he couldn't beat the mom because he could get it the mom She'd leave him behind in the cart. Well, though. What she would do is that she was a sex worker And she would bring customers home and she would have sex in front of both her legless husband and her son Henry Lee Lucas Unfortunately, I can't complete the act ma'am unless your peg leg does been is in the room. Yeah, it could be less

I don't know I think it's extra to like put him out in the back porch. Oh, you're the You're dead, you're dead He was beat Yeah, mercilessly. I mean grew up in a dirt floor shack in the backwards of Virginia I'm in his siblings were farmed out to institutions relatives foster homes

Then get past fifth grade and famously had an IQ of about 87 which is around that's the same IQ as Actually, it's a higher IQ than for it's got nothing Gary Ridgeway. Oh, yes Gary Ridgeway is by far, which we are gonna redo Gary. We are gonna redo Gary Ridgeway But Gary He was not the brightest bulb in the pack Gary Ridgeway the green river killer who probably had around 80 murders

Truly won it truly the most one of the most prolific serial killers in history. Yeah, I think only Samuel at least as far as America goes like we don't hold a candle to South American guy No, no, South American guys have body counts in the hundreds because he was killed in killing six kids as a time Doesn't count okay, that's like Sammy so soon

“Technically, there should be an asterisk next to a lot of those crimes you should be allowed to get him in a group”

Yeah, but Gary Ridgeway I think is a IQ is 83 which I think was the same as for us No 75 Yeah, 75 your mother shouldn't have just care about your education Actually, they could have been in really Lucas's mother. Oh, yeah What a gentle woman yeah, but it's father died of hypothermia in 1951 when he drunk and the fell asleep outside during snowstorm

Yeah, you don't want to do that because guess what you don't become Santa Claus In 18 Lucas was sentenced to four years in prison started off as a burglar was proved to have committed a dozen burglaries around Richmond, Virginia

Oh, I bet especially if it wasn't like I'm you're not in

Attica or Alcatraz you're literally like in some shitty like a local prison during jail. Yeah

“That's what just can't believe how little time everyone keeps getting from murder back in the day”

Well, this is just for you there shot you in the head or the route two years Yeah, well, I mean, this is for burglaries. Yeah four years in prison for burglaries. It doesn't burglaries That's it that's fine. That's the sentence. That's a little gentleman sentence Yeah, you got released in 1959 and within a year of being released he had murdered his mother Yeah, he had migrated from Virginia to Michigan to join his sister

Opal, but his mother kept calling and calling and calling and calling and he's a mom I'll sit you keep times. Oh, me Well, I'm free man, Bob, I don't really have what do go wrong. So she literally was just calling a bunch

She was calling him to say like come home. Take care of me. Take care of me. Come on. Come on. Oh, never go. Yeah

Always rude the day my mom learned to text Because now I get like four D guilted. Yeah, that was so much better for me I can always text a note of my mom much easier than I could say it out loud. See, I love saying no Well, so Henry Lucas's mother came for Christmas immediately disapproved of Henry Lucas's fiance and woman named Stella Yeah, Stella because if you look at Henry Lee Lucas

He looks like this might be insulting to the man, but He's got John Kerry vibes and also John Kerry

You remember Paul with a boat. Oh

That John Kerry. He looks like if John Kerry fucked a hollowed out jack-o-lantern Yeah, and they had a baby, but he's so tiny too. Who and really Lucas? Yeah, and John Kerry's very large But I'm just saying if you look at their faces, he's got Lincoln face their faces do actually look very similar He's up, you know, Henry Lucas has the droopy eye the same droopy eye that He's like your insults are compliments

I forgot that he died in 2001. Yeah, right before 9/11 fucker got the miss it Oh, that makes me so sad. You would have loved So Henry Lucas's mother while visiting Henry and demanding that he returned with her. I like she stayed throughout the holidays She stayed around until January 11. That's when she struck Lucas over the head with a broom He struck back and then stabbed her in the neck with a knife

Yeah, got mommy real bad, and that was number one, and then he says I guess after that that kind of changed his whole brain Where he just decided then kill anything that would be a quote-unquote problem to him or or then he would got a he got be the taste for it Look at you take anything. He said seriously. No, no, absolutely not, but yeah

“Because everything he said after the fact is all just kind of gross, but he did”

Hey, he loved this child bride more than a lot of people love their child bride He did, but let's wait. We're not quite to the child bride just yet. Thank you. He was found arrested since the 40 years in prison at Jackson State Penitentiary Unsuccessfully tried suicide many many times. He did. Yeah, he was very emotional. Yes. He was a very emotional human being was transferred to a state hospital under which electric shock therapy behavior therapy and was on a lot of doses of anti-depressants

But after just 10 years in prison, they released the man who murdered his mother due to prison overcrowding and I got a feeling There's like guys who should have gotten out before him. Yeah, yeah, I still want to stole a car Do I arrested for like having a joint? No, I mean like you probably like describe your mother. He's like I imagine a Wolverine if it raised you're like your freezer Probably let him out because as we know he's fucking good at the cops. Well, it's he we he better

He buddied up later on. It's a weird relationship that he had with cops later on. We'll talk about it because he it's not it He becomes child like I think in a way what you see is his lack of intelligence Well, I think what you also see with Henry Lee Lucas and it's interesting considering the direction that he went with his confessions at one point Is it what you reminds me of is the sort of confessions that you got from children during the satanic panic

“That's what I mean, they're all yeah, I'd now want to yeah, and we'll get to that here at a bit”

After another stint in prison, he of course got out and immediately tried abduking a 15-year-old gunpoint He was in prison and that's where he met artists tool. Yeah, his his John Lennon Is that anything if I were to make them beetles? I would say that he is Paul McCartney Henry Lucas is the Paul McCartney sure

And the sheriff's Georgia

“Do you know much about Audis tool if you seem pictures and I mean I watched the whole documentary today”

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you pretty much got it. He's got lazy eyes huge cock Yeah, yeah, I was gonna say he kept like looking at him like they yeah fucking kiss all the time And he which is totally probably should have done more of it guess what you did what you just found out something Because they did fucking kiss Oh, yeah, now you know you got now you know what Audis tool looks like and you know what Henryley Lucas looks like now imagine them

Fucking each other Hard-cored dude, and that's because they they red shoe diaries man. No, no, no, she dies This been like how but you won't curl your fru-tile I don't know you I don't know them ready to go. Yeah

“Well, it's I don't know if they mentioned in the documentary, but it's suspected that Audis tool was the one who murdered John Walsh's son”

Yeah, yeah, yeah Audis tool couldn't quote created John Walsh, but then that turned into another That's also a weird story. I don't know if it's real. It's a very strange story. But yeah, you know John Walsh America's most found his head I was down in Florida with all this shit was going down You found that? No, yeah, it was there. I was like, whoa, look at this The kid like six

Whoa, man talk about it like out of every one John Walsh really capitalized on their child's murder Yeah, I don't know that anyone hey era clapped in buddy That is what they gave him his fourth act. Yeah, I'm gonna rewrite it for when my dad dies And to beers and have it I'm gonna sing that same exact song. Would you pay my tab if I saw you Would you buy around if I saw you

If that's so you So Audis tool and him really Lucas like say whatever you want about him I do truly believe that these men were in love with each other. Yeah, yeah, they were especially if they matched each other's freak Yeah, yeah, but they claimed later on that between the late 70s and early 80s

That they went on a killing spree in which they murdered basically anybody who would get in the car with them or anybody that they could kidnap or

Anybody that just happened to be in the general vicinity, basically saying like it started with a hundred Then it went to 200 then went to 400 then it went to 600 Well, if you want if anybody's ever seen Henry Henry portrait of a serial killer It's kind of exactly like that. It's a wandering state of constant murder rape and mayhem Is that about Henry Lucas? It is loosely basically it's loosely based on the idea of a serial killer like that an opportunity killer

Not somebody that is so Henry really Lucas if if all of what he said was real He was you'd be considered a like because you know, we've processed some product killers and you have people that plan and stock BTK was someone a lot of time and energy and to picking who he would kill and like a lot of people do that Or Jeffrey Domer like they kind of figure out like a subset and how to get the people they kill Henry Lucas and I'll just tool if they are to believe Kill everyone within sight. Yeah anybody they could get their hands on and there was no way that

They'd never have time for a date

Which is honestly why they didn't last with just like you know couples go through so much that we just were so busy in The day-to-day life then we don't just sit and just think to be like hey, like I Love killing these hitchhikers with you I just don't believe they would have a car that would run that well, and that's the thing is that they said that they would

“Chris cross the country, and that's why they never got caught because they were so transient by the time a body was found in Colorado”

They were already in Washington state, you know, and that they could you know cover You know thousands of miles in like a matter of days because we run all love This hitchhikers murder it caught chooses love It was during this time that Lucas lived with tool and with tools mother and Tools niece preteen Becky Powell the aforementioned child bright see because I feel like he went with Becky

So like Henry Lucas began a real quote-unquote relationship with Becky the child and I think partially It had to do with almost in a way been like you know like proper with all this and I'll do You know, I'll think that a song for me to really settle down I think he did actually say that at one point. Yeah You know, I'll just I love the way you pull on me. I love the way you dug me, but also been to come down

And I know we can't get married now the Lord. All right, so I got to be with his child. Yeah

You know what I can see it. Yes, I can see it to like the time that doesn't get hard all the way

Yeah, you can loopy Yeah You know like a dog's kind of leg that doesn't work But it's still attached. Yeah, I know that's the Whoa, it's like your dog's got four oddest tool days

That's nice Well after Audis tools mother died

Henry Lucas claims that the three of them

Audis Henry and Becky the three of them started touring the country and killing anyone that they found Yes, that's until they found eighty two-year-old Katie Rich whose family quickly kicked them out after accusing Lucas and Betty of writing checks from rich as a count They were yeah, that's a weird story. I forgot about that whole section of time Where he's like living with the old lady. Yeah, and they're all like shacking up and let's just say again Not great tenants. Yeah, and then they got picked up by like a pinocostal minister who was like totally cool with Henry

“Lucas mayor it like being married to I think she was 13. Yeah, and the child. Yeah. Yeah, I mean that shit was happening back there”

It was not a lot though. You honestly not a lot I if you look at it across the board. It's still pretty frowned upon Yes, it depends on my part of the country

But even in Jerry Lewis remember Jerry Lewis when he went to UK and then they all fucking like he basically got kicked out of the UK

Because he showed up with his child riding but he was a world famous musician. We're talking about fucking Henry Lucus here. No one's paying attention to what Henry Lucus is doing. We are now now But there's trust me Virginia in that entire area of the world. I will. I wonder what his opinion was on Megan Markle I wonder how he feels about Jojo see what she probably wasn't alive Well, Henry Lucus was living in this minister that's totally cool with all this shit

They had an apartment and really Lucus got a job as a roofer They to everything was fine then. Yeah, and it was get they kind of looked like a weird commune at this abandoned chicken ranch But then they felt Tom sick for Florida and Lucus tearfully informed the minister That Becky jumped into a passing truck and left him and Lucus continued living on the ranch But no one ever heard from Becky Powell ever again

Yeah, a month after that the old lady the Henry Lucus was living with Katie Rich She disappeared and authorities were of course led immediately to the weird drifter that had been accused of Writing checks in her name just a few months earlier. I don't know why everybody seems to appreciate now

“I'm some kind of suspect why the doof mop and trial broad. Who's not here anymore?”

She moved on. She got a job out. She's working for NASA. Yeah, I love my wife my child Broge knew it's a whale. Yeah, she went off to child broad school To learn how to take it better. Yeah, I thought he was up. I thought she was working for NASA And child bride school is just school So in June 10th 1983, Lucus was arrested for unlawful possession of a firearm and while in jail

He began confessing. You were led her to the sheriff to whom it may concern I Henry Lucus to try to clear this matter up. I killed Kate Rich on September last year I've tried to get help so long and no one will help. I have killed for the past 10 years and no one will believe it I'm just gonna try to clear this matter up I did kill Kate Rich. I'm super sorry about it. I'm not like an A.I. Nary

I have killed for the past 10 years and no one will believe it

“Why do you think that he immediately confess? I actually do but at some point I think that life sucked”

I think confessing made him feel good. I think he felt I don't think that Henry Lucus is a serial killer in any way whatsoever No, I think the dumb dumb dumb dumb Mean man. I think murdering people made him feel extraordinarily guilty. Yeah, I think he was extremely guilty that He had killed this old lady who had been nice to him It's just like that such a it's like, you know the story of the rattlesnake you pick up the rattlesnake

You know, it's like it's just he he old lady was nice to him and because she was nice to him He killed her and and fucked her corpse in a call for See, I feel the guilty part. You see, I feel yeah, it's weird because like when did the guilty parts start? It was like he killed her and then you're mock Damn, why do you make me a whole dress slipped off

Why don't I skill and well, let me just well, she still wore my me. I don't count as dead

That's what you're going to play

“I'm not feeling guilty. Henry, are we feeling guilty?”

Are you talking to Henry himself I don't know No, maybe sir maybe no I'm not doing this act. I'm not either This is being But after a couple of days like you started feeling guilty about leaving this body behind

So he got went well actually I don't know if he started feeling guilty

I think he realized that someone was going to find the body

Sure, so yeah, so he took it back to his apartment at the chicken farm and burned her body in a stove over the course of two days And then after he admitted to that crime, he said he needed to get something else off his chest and admitted to killing the child bride Becky Powell He said they were arguing while trying to hit your ride because she wanted to go back to Jacksonville But he had a warrant out for his arrest and Florida so he couldn't go back And they decided to sleep in an empty field off the road after arguing that night Becky hit Lucas on the side of the head and

He retaliated by stabbing Becky in the chest He said she sort of just sat there for a little bit and then just dropped over. You know yeah, yeah, of course

And how horrible is it with him that she wanted to go back to Jacksonville

But yeah, but or it's kiss Henry Lee Lucas again Yes, they do I drive to Jacksonville or look over John Kerry sitting there and we in his black hole son Filter just I'm like Lucas cut back in a small pieces and stuff to remains in a pillow case is accept her legs and Lucas returned two weeks later to bury her remains Once again, Henry Lucas was charged with murder and at his arrangement Lucas asked the judge

What are we going to do about these other 100 women? I kill and it's just like Fuck you. Yeah, yeah, so it starts with this it really was like the smartest thing he ever did his whole life

“Yeah, in a weird way. I mean, that's what we said about Gary Ridgeway so many years ago is that like yeah”

Gary Ridgeway is really bad at IQ tests, but you know, he's really good at killing sex work So it just turns out that it's unfortunately it's how you do it. It's any and it's the method by which you do it and it's He just when you're doing things spur of the moment It's extremely difficult to catch the guys when they're doing shit spur the moment when they're planning you can begin to build an ammo

You can begin to build how they look at victims You can figure kind of how to catch them in some times sometimes because you're like oh, they're in this area They're trying to linger around this it like kind of don't like when Gary Ridgeway He was murdering people just like in a the real fashion. It's actually very interesting take on this because technically Gary Ridgeway is the real and really Lucas like So he did it he was like a product killer like essentially. Well no Gary Ridgeway was full process killer

So you like the triangle him to death. The only care about was strangling sex workers. This is whole life in detailing cars And apparently he was like the best detailer in all of Seattle. Yes, and so he would just but it was the wide area that he did it with And then the very simple way that he did it and then I guess it's like how you stay hidden It's weird. It was his simplicity. It was actually it also you sex workers because they just didn't properly man It was all pre DNA. Yeah, yeah, but I mean with Gary Ridgeway that is somewhat the irony of it is that it was his stupidity

And it's simplicity that kept him from getting caught Yeah, where people who go a little bit more complicated with that leave a much larger trail behind

“That's why I tried to cover it up. Yeah, I hadn't see think like Patrick's wazzy. He wasn't that bright”

He's incredible reform See like at the empty vessel. Yes, that you fill with water. You feel very similar. Gary Ridgeway Patrick's wazzy Extremely similar what we learned from swazzy is you can't dance away at a cancer So satisfying that's been said on this There's a lot of people honestly. I want to say that there is a thing called dance against cancer

I want to say that there's an old thing and saying that oh, oh, dance, but it's like It's where that the dance is a celebration of people people give a money, but they can't the dancing itself is not going to cure the cancer It's actually called I'm a dancer against cancer. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Absolutely. That's so he had dance or not cancer Yeah, I'm blitz it

I'm going to take a deeper look at all this whole energy I'll take we're going to have to pop a little bit I'm really sorry but we're kidding And so you're welcome serious You asked

Contractually obligated so the Texas Rangers there basically the ones that we can blame for all of this bullshit. Yeah, so they kind of got they they

He sort of became a pet project for them. Yeah. Well, so Texas Rangers are not There Don't please Marcus please for the love of God. I cannot deal with that. I are of the Texas Marshalls or the these guys Rangers. I just don't want I just want to be able to go through Texas. I want to be able to drive through Texas They are definitely complicit. I know they're very complicit and remember how we talked about member of the Bonnie and Clyde story

“Yes, and how much the Texas Rangers were complicit in that? Yes, and I think it was maybe the mob barker”

No, was a mob barker, but yeah, they were definitely complicit in like the Bonnie and Clyde story They're they famously a very corrupt Institute. You're not crushing it. Yeah, they're not crushing

That's my review. I mean I'm sure two stars two stars two stars

But they built a task force led by former Texas Rangers William some county sheriff Jim Boutwell And retired Texas Ranger Bob Prince and they started actively investigating up and down the I-35 interstate between Austin and Dallas and so what they started doing is they started asking Henry Le Lucas hey What about this murder? Did you commit this murder and Henry go? Yep. Yeah, yeah, and then the Texas Rangers would go Check all right, yeah, what about this murder and he'd go

Yep And then go check mark and they brought in another murder, and now this is also I really feel like a lot of it happened with the Minister too. Well the minister was a big part of it. Yeah, yeah, this woman and that's kind of really what got him in that like Kind of manic confession mode because this lady came because I now I actually see this entirely different That's what the nine years does is that like I see what you're saying was that he

Actually is a dimwitted He is mean spirited, but in his weird way Yes, yeah, he actually had this thing where he fell real guilty. He has a criminal psychosis. Yes He has no he can't control his impulses. Yeah, he's got he is the impediment of anti-social personality Yes, it should be locked in a bite. He

What they eventually did is lock them in a fucking box until he died. Yes, because he's bad at everything. He's bad at life You could have been a good waiter. Oh, you know, honestly. I've met a lot of sketchy waiters A lot of sketchy waiters, but I still love them. I love each one of them

“I mean, you got to remember a lot when you're a waiter. That's why I couldn't be every I always got fired from waiter jobs because I couldn't remember anything”

Well, he used to remember all the weird little detail. He was making it up now and he was also yet. Yeah, but then he was a peating back What the other people thought exactly that way No, waiter They're the consigliary of the entire experience They're coming in here. They're greeting and creating an atmosphere welcoming

You feel like oh, I'm a party that's I'm invited to a party and I'm cool for being here And that's the person throwing the party, right? That's the waiter. He's throwing the party and he's coming in here And he's trying to make me feel cool for being there right set missing exploring celebrating food celebrating Epicuring an interest. That's right. What was the use of that? Well Let me get back to my ritual point

So he got when he met the chapel

“I think he's a woman named clammy clammy. Oh, the monster the none the none when he met them”

I'm walking lady. Yes, essentially he felt I think that you know this is a full bit backseat Psychologist he thought about the pastor that he fucked up and he fucked him his whole life with himself

Now he met this religious person that is treating him with respect and kindness that he has never had before and now

He's willing to do it ever that woman tells him to know she's treating him like a baby Yes, cutting up his food. That's all cutting his hair. He's like never had a mom and so she Impolicing tarrogations they specifically will key in just stuff like that to fuck with you to get you to sort of respond like they know like if you were like There was one more I just watched recently where there was a big fat idiot that they were interrogating and the first thing hey, but the first thing that asked him was like

She wanted cupcakes, you know somebody's made a bunch of cupcakes and so the sky came in if they brought him a bunch of cupcakes at the top And he's in like this guy he'd killed his family and he's like eating a cupcake She's just being like what what he said. He was I think he said like daddy likes. I'm like I forget what he said

Oh, yeah, and then they slowly buttered you up to get you to talk this lady

“Maybe she wanted a fuck can really look at I think she claimed he wanted to get that dugout. I thought she was into him for sure”

She had to be I mean, I think spend that much time with him. I think she got off on it I think she got off on the conversion. I mean on like let's turn this guy around like this is a A horrible killer like it's like getting a win like we got we got one We got a big win a big conversion here. It's like making friends with a tiger. Yeah

Yeah, and if you make friends with a tiger, then don't you feel very powerful exactly. Yeah, and so an arrangement was coordinated between

Henrly Lucas this non-named Klemie Texas Ranger Jim Boutwell and Texas Ranger Bob Prince so Lucas could cooperate and continue to talk and Henry was like genuinely Happy at jail. This was the happiest you ever was this is the best time of his life Yeah, walked around without handcuffs on Chummy with the staff gets three squares, you know, you know three squares of the cat, you know, and he's happy his fuck

“Oh, yeah, because he had a struggle just to get that before and then also they're giving him special”

Yeah, man, too. He's getting hamburgers and milkshakes and lots of cigarettes Like it cigarettes like writing in the front seat of the car Crazy walking around with no fucking he's like walking around with a cup of coffee to cigarette Yeah, and no handcuffs like joking around with people It's because he was doing my mind. Yeah, he was doing the police's jobs for them. Yeah, because all of a sudden once word got out

That there was a guy that claimed that he had murdered over 600 people or whatever He's still at the hundred at this point. He's saying I'd murdered a hundred people and I'd killed people in every corner of this country Name a corner of this country and I killed someone there, but it's especially like Texas

Southwest like basically the south, you know from from Florida to Texas and

So all these detectives who had all these cold cases started coming in and asking him really Lucas about these crimes And what they would do is they would show him photos They would show him crime scenes. They'd show him little they get little things and he'd repeat shit back to them Little by little, you know like he'd he would pull the information out of them without them Really even know and that he was doing it because every time he got a gold star every time he got like hey, yay

You got a murder charge. They're really said he was a good guy Yeah, that shake his hand the Panama it's so much. You know yeah, because these people these cuz he's cold cases like they haunt these Deep and homies cops and the families yeah because there are a lot of pressures coming from the families to do something about the crime But they these aren't like big city crimes. This isn't Dallas isn't Houston like this is known June or whatever this is fucking Colorado City Texas, you know like this is like because my dad

I mean I told this on the Henry Lee Lucas episode is that my dad ended up in a restaurant with Henry Lee Lucas on one of these Giants. Oh, yeah, when we were living when I was a kid we lived in a town called Colorado City. There's just this small fucking town And it was walk as they would take in really Lucas out to like certain sites and Dad so that he was just sitting there having lunch one day and in walks Henry Lee Lucas in a couple of cops

They just sit down and of course nothing came of it But it's these small towns and just like a few hundred people a few thousand people were murder really mean something we're like murder fucks up an entire community and these cops go crazy trying to solve it And so they go to Henry Lee Lucas and he absolves them. Yes, he absolves them that these cops can go back to their hometown

They can talk to the family. They can say hey, it was this interly Lucas guy, you know, we can we we got him We finally got him. You're got you know your your daughter can rest now and Henry Lee Lucas what did he get out of it? Well, he got out of his jail sale. He'd get strawberry milkshakes He gets cigarettes. He'd get stakes. Oh, yeah, I've been fucking blanched. Yeah, you got to be he got to get a

Technically life he never got before this. Yeah, or he ever would have gotten ever would have gotten

He treated like a legitimate celebrity

“He dealt like and also I think people's a discount like how good it feels to”

Let's just say he's not had a lot of positive validation. No, right? And so now he's getting celebrated So he's like feeling like like my beckon give back Maybe this is it maybe this is my way you're making everybody smile. You know me more like his He's just a dumb they haunted evil child man

The craziest thing. I didn't know this This is and this is why we do the update show is that they wanted so many different samples from him like saliva

They asked for so much of his pubic hair that he ran out and they had to wait for more to grow back

More Or unfortunately I like to give you more, but as you can see I'm a bit of a Suzanne summers downstairs Shaved to the Nards. Well originally he talked to see me more come Make some comment if you guys didn't come Obviously I've got just because I was already doing it. I don't know if you need any spit or shit either because that's all gonna kind of be in one cup

Well by February 1984 the task force had Tied in really Lucas to 47 cases and by May of the same year that number rose to 117 and grew by another 49 by August to 1984. So this guy is being not charged with but

About over 150 murders they're saying like yep solved no that was Henry Lee. Yeah

So what's up with these Rangers like they have to be in on this. They have to know they're doing the wrong thing They the the power of Self-deception can be very strong also think about Yeah, they optics of we've caught this super predator So not only like it's it's not that they're covering up the I think they're who knows about covering up crimes or whatever

But I think it's more like the more they attach to him too not only do they get these murders off the board But also it bolsters up all these guys hanging out with this fucking crazy serial killer that they all caught right So like the more they build up his roster of death and his standing it raises their standing too It also raise Henry Lucas's standing because then he gets to portray himself as this evil mastermind serial killer And that protects him in jail like of later on down the fact that it gives him power within jail

That's that's jail political power. I know but it's all like it's just tries to be crazy because he's so tiny

“Yeah, he wouldn't have won all these fights even if they were all just women. That's what honest who was there for because honest”

Tool was what like six-five. Yeah, yeah, I told was a big a fucking horrible Dude, and he did God knows what those honest tools. Oh, he's the real fucking great But yeah, no Henry look Henry look as killed three people for certain Yeah, I actually do think it is more than a three people, but it is not Hundreds of people. I don't think it is. I think he killed so I guess the people that you look at like it's

Everything else had a reason that he killed they all had like a distinct Reason yeah, he did it except for the old lady the old lady didn't really have a reason But we asked him for rent. Yeah, something like probably that's some point just being like I might have to call the police or like this is getting your weird because the other two murders was like some a woman hit him and he responded by stabbing her You know like that's also his story. Yeah, that's it, but yeah, that is his story

“That's a story. That is true. That is true. But I think another big thing about this with the Rangers that it”

Confirms a certain world view that I think some of these people really enjoy subscribing to it I mean, I know this from growing up in Texas. The Texas is like it's an evil place Yeah, it is there's a reason why the Russia of America I still think Texas and I'm not saying I love Texas. I'm not saying that Texans are evil I'm saying Texas is an evil place because over the years like I would ask myself like why don't we cover more

Stories about Texas. Why don't we cover more Texas true crime? The answer is that Texas true crime is fucking brutal and pointless

Yeah, a lot of it's pretty fucking rough. Yeah, it's harsh. It's brutal. It's like it is a fucking it is a cool place You know, and it always has been you know, there was that famous quote is that like if if I own Texas I'd bring out Texas and live in hell Cuz Texas is fucking it can be a it's a very very harsh place and I think people who and I know people who live there Some people really enjoy that reputation. Oh, of course

I said they enjoy that reputation and and they like this idea that the world is a far worse place than it really is Because there's reason why they exist and they're the line between chaos and order exactly They like to have they like the world to be in more evil place and it really is because

“It makes them bigger men. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, it's an idea that you've got it's your way necessary”

You did very strong and you're very big and of course that became much larger when Henry Lee Lucas started talking about the hand of death Now hand of death this we're just gonna just straight up right here. It is absolutely stupidist fucking Conspiracy theory on the face of the planet. I'm saying it right now I'm sorry Dave McGowan. I know you're sad. It's the double chance that I would ever wherever

It's all very stupid except I do believe or more that there are other interconnected connected people But the idea that the CIA trained Henry Lee Lucas. I just feel like we trained Osama bin Laden. Yes That's okay. Yeah, yeah, he's like come on. Well, the hat right you think the kind of money that we put behind the CIA We're gonna get a Henry Lee Lucas. Come on guys. Well, the hand of death was supposedly a cult that practiced human sacrifice It's an outcropping of the satanic panic, but they worked alongside the CIA to provide children in order for them to get their

Proper testing subjects for the beginnings of MK all trust sure except it happened way after him. Kale

But it's because I'm Kale to never end it

And also I think the CIA is they're gonna get rid of a perfectly good sex worker Well, they yeah, they'd say they'd take a live girl. I mean it's one of those things where I I think it's this is around the time of the satanic panic And I think Kale me the nun was starting to be influenced by that sort of shit And I think the Henry the I think He built Henry Lucas started ping-ponging ideas, and it got weirder and weirder and worse and worse because I think Kale me was starting to look

For reasons behind all this because I don't think she could I even though none of it was real I don't think she could wrap her head around the concept of a man killing

“Hundreds of women just cut will the only thing that it could possibly be is being in lead with the sake of and then the idea that you're this”

Monster your literal monster yeah, and yes, and it's also the idea of you know

This all of the satanic panic shit was going on where everyone's talking about You know human sacrifices and there's all these devil worshiping cults all over the country and But the rational minded people kept asking them it's like, okay, where are the bodies? Where's all that where's the where's the where's the bodies where are the evidence and then now you have Henry Lucas and Otis tool also joining in on this going

Yeah, yeah, we all about it. Yeah, it and it's it they were just excited to talk and I do think the idea It it it it it just very It's also in her mind you could see being like if I flip the civil satanist I'm the boreals best none. Yeah, maybe they'll let me be a priest

First I can have a hand up a little boy. Yeah, yeah, and I'll find the child

But you know Henry Lucas over the years like you know there's been so many murders that have been But then there's also been a lot of murders that he said. I did that have since proved to be Committed by other men. They're one the innate testing. It's only 20 was the number at the end of the documentary It's insane. That's out of two hundred or something

Yeah, you're trying to pin on it. But he got convicted for 11 So he ended up going down for 11 they put a couple on him, but it still it was not Scott won is the most aggravating one of all of them. Yes, so pre the the troopers kid who killed the store clerk And then they were like, oh, you do this for us. We would take the wrap on this and he just said yes Of course because he's like the cops who was buddy. He said he has a comment where he's like the sheriff

He's been the narcissist my end of me him make sure he takes care of me and apparently he looked up this year He said he was like my he was my friend. He's not a police officer, and then he also said that he was kind of like his daddy Yeah, and then the sheriff admitted to liking him Yeah And the thing is is that how are they not held accountable for this gets cuz any such a huge

Yeah, I mean, but what law are they breaking that's the but that's the problem. It's like what you got to keep being Texas Rangers the retard now

“Yeah, dude, they've got that's what allowed them. That's what allowed them to retire. Mm-hmm”

Was that big yet, but they were didn't for like another what like 10 years after that. It didn't for a while. Yeah, unfortunately at a life's not fair I know Very difficult that he I hate to break your heart Yeah, and that was actually there was even one one of the most famous murders in Lubbock. You know where I went to college That was

Supposedly a Henry Lee Lucas murder, but I actually found out like there was a whole Thing with that murder where they exume the body like a year ago and like the sister of the woman who was murdered She became involved with this like true crime podcast and they ended up having a falling out Whoa, it was like a massive New York Times magazine article about it that they didn't have time to get into We should look at that. That's very interesting. Yeah, it's some weird shit. Yeah, the murder of Deborah Sue Agnew Williamson

“And then there's this story. Where was it the then the the orange socks?”

Was trying to the the identified orange socks through the Jane dough. That was also attached to well and really Look at the found out who it was eventually yeah, Deborah Jackson from Harris County. Yeah, well Orange socks was supposedly the one that people pointed to is like no look. He's not lying

And he said that I always left the socks on them when I you know, that's my calling card

“Yeah, which is not true. We didn't have a calling card”

No, because we killed people two by fours and ball pens whatever you had around Yeah, so Henry Lucas then apparently then in private said he didn't kill her. Yeah Which is and then his stories in Jacksonville to check out because they went to go investigate And they found out that he was nowhere near yeah

You was nowhere near where the murder would happen. Yeah, and they also have on tape of the fucking dudes

Coursing him. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yep, and the we but the weirdest thing about Henry Lucas and this is one of the ones that you know People point to like that the satanic panic people sure. I am and of course the ones that Fold that into like government yet. Yeah, is that He was the only person out of all the people that were killed when George W. Bush was governor of Texas He was the only one whose death sentence was commuted. Yes. Yeah, George W. Bush

Communities deaths and it's saying that the evidence for the orange socks murders was not compelling enough Like he let Carla Faye Tucker fry Is weird that is why we're like but I think it's not been it's because of the friends he made in the Texas Rangers

“I don't think that you have to look that far for the conspiracy”

I don't think it's like they got so it's not a satanic conspiracy It's just straight up boys club. We'll boys George Bush was the GM of the Texas Rangers

Baseball team. Yeah, it was true. Yeah, and I'll never forget my buddy West of the he saw

During the Carla Faye Tucker trial like when she was being executed He swears to this day that he saw news reporters say Carla Tayfucker. Oh Really sad really really sad really really sad and that's how we're gonna end today. Thank you so much for listening The last update on the left. Oh Brighter side give it a listen in the last podcast. That worked huh page round.com slash last podcast on the left is where you can find

Video episodes of this show. Oh last podcast on the left show. Oh tell me Should do the goat on toe and heaven Well, they buck on toe the goat buck on toe buck on her buck on her buck on Would you an having a sudden, you know, this is like the true in between

Tool and him. It's like it is is where Texas beats Florida. It really is it really really is and which ones worse I mean, you know just more space in Texas

“You know that is true, but they both got gators. They both have gators, but only one has honestly”

I mean, you know know what I'll say that's got universal Florida They got a sense of humor. They do Texas not big on a sense of humor. Texas is getting What that's a different bug Texas getting universal. Yeah, the Dallas is getting a universe of studios I mean I mean six flags say we will about Texas six flags over Texas. It's great is a fantastic except for one of those flags I get to take a shot. Yeah

Thank you for enjoying the last update on the left you can find other shows that you'll enjoy from the last podcast network on last podcast on the left dot com see you there