Morbid Book Club: Victorian Psycho By Virginia Feito

Hey weirdos, this episode is brought to you by Ashley. Your home should show off who you are.

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I do have something to tell you today. We have somebody very special on the pod. In the pod lab, the second pod lab. Ashkel's pod lab. Ashkel's pod lab. It's still a little bit under construction, but we're getting on it. We have, whoa! Thanks, Mikey. That was badass. We have pod tremble on the pod today.

Pall is the critically acclaimed New York Times bestselling author of Headful of Ghosts, the Paul Bear's Club, a cabin at the end of the world, and actually that one has already been adapted to a film.

“It's not at the cabin, I believe it's called, so go check that out.”

And Headful of Ghosts is going to be adapted to a movie, so cool. Wait for that.

His newest release, right here, dead, but dreaming of electric sheep, which is an amazing title.

It's coming out June 30th. That's wherever you can find books. We have actually already recorded with Paul, and had a fucking fantastic time. He's so nice. He's phenomenal. His books are phenomenal, and I urge you to go check them out, and we're really excited for you to see our conversation with everyone. Woo! Before we get into that episode, we do just have to thank our sponsor one more time. Ashley is such an icon. I'm not talking about myself. I'm talking about this gorgeous furniture that we are sitting on, and our feet are upon, and our prank are upon.

We got this is the Revion Lake sofa that we're sitting on. It's comfy. It's really comfy. It's comfy. It's chic. I love the color, and it's washable, which is nice. I got the love seat over there, and then we have the maily coffee table, which I'm actually ordering another one to put in my living room downstairs, because I love it so much. I like to say really quick that the Schwep's on there was a mistake.

On the steak, Instagram. I'm not talking to you right now. And finally, these are the core stone tables, the end tables. What I love about these is that, I feel like I'm like a cutesy girl. Yeah. I love that you can dress them up like the shelves. You can kind of just put all your couture moths, all your Zikor, your trinkets, your puppies, your horror movies, your horror movies, your awala, your game that you crafted with your sister and hunter killer. You can just put anything on the end table.

Thank you to Ashley for sponsoring today's episode, and for sending us this really cool furniture, because it's sick. And without further ado, let's get into it. Well, hey, weirdos, I'm Ash. I'm Elena. And I'm Grady Hendrix. No, I'm Paul.

We said, Paul, you can be whoever you want me to have. And you chose Grady Hendrix. Oh, yes. This is morbid. This is a very special morbid. We have an amate.

We already introduced him, but I'm going to introduce him again. Yeah, this is Paul.

“If you don't know him, go figure it out, because there's a body of work that you need to get into right now.”

He's an amazing writer, and you're missing out if you haven't read his books.

So get to it. And also there's several adaptations that have been happening lately. Yeah. Thank you so much. Yeah.

I've got the most recent would be Edphilago's wrapped filming in the Dublin area, which is where I actually Victorian. It was filmed in Ireland as well. Oh, that's cool. Virginia and I talked a little bit about. But anyway, yeah, wrapped in probably out of year for now.

Yeah, super excited. I'm really excited for that. That's actually one of my favorite of your books. Thank you so much. Very excited about that.

It's going to be a scary movie. Oh, okay. They didn't pull any punches. So the director is as weird. We were talking my wife and I in the way over.

The director is our Austrian niece and nephew. Like just kind of funny. Oh, my God. That's so cool. That is funny.

I love that. Oh, that's so cool. I love that. Well, we mentioned Victorian psycho. Yes.

“That's what we're going to be talking about today.”

Yes. This was actually your pick, which we are very excited. And effort. I had heard about this book. It's by Virginia Faito.

Excuse me. And I've heard about this book everywhere.

I've heard about so many people have told me you have to read this book. And it's been on my TBR forever. So when you mentioned it, I was like, well, perfect. I ate this book up in one day. Like one sitting literally, just ate it up.

It's so easy to read. It is such a good book. I think it's so unique.

Like I've never read anything quite like this.

You know, truly. Yeah. And we're going to get really into it in a minute. I want to talk to you about you. Okay.

Because you guys got to know who ball is. I'm not Victorian. You're not Victorian. You like it. To be determined.

We'll figure it out through this. So we were actually just talking about this. Congrats on finally becoming a full-time writer. Thank you. That's incredible.

I appreciate that. Yeah, it's a little weird, a little daunting. Yeah. But I've been at high school math teacher for 30 years. And people usually react more and harder to that than they do.

The horror writing. I was going to say that's hard to me. Yeah. I totally get it. You know, at a small school local to hear.

And they were always super supportive.

Let me be the weirdo. Horror writing, agnostic math teacher and a Catholic voice school. Oh, really? That's about that. That's awesome.

“That's a story in and of itself that you need to write a thing.”

That really is. Very thankful. If I missed a day or two to go like a festival or something, they were great. Oh, that's so cool. Yeah.

That's so rare. Yeah. It was like, I mean, my artistic writer Lee safety net. Yeah. What do you mean?

Similar to you? You were just telling me how you kept your job for a long time. I mean, it was just nice. No, hey, I had this job that sometimes paid our shitty health insurance. And then, you know, I could write a book.

And if it was weird, that's okay. Yeah. I needed to say, no, I could because I didn't have to like do what the publisher said or what people expected. I know. And I think that actually makes it better.

I feel like you probably were a little able to be more free and creative with that when you have that safety net. Because when it's all on you, it's like, like, this has to work. It has to be whatever you would like. No, 100%. Yeah.

Always admire friends who make a goal of it, you know, full time.

And that's how they've been supporting their family for years. I mean, that's a pressure that I'll have to figure out. The kids are older now. So they're on their own. So what?

Yeah. They're so precious. Yeah. Well, you're definitely like the most successful like part-time writer I've ever seen like that's crazy.

“When I saw, I think I saw you post about it.”

And I was like, we in a minute, it was like he's not full time doing this. Well, but you seem to have come to the full time side of writing at the right time. Because I feel like horrors having kind of like a cultural Renaissance right now. Like, we even like with movies and stuff like back rooms, weapons, sinners, Frankenstein, obsession.

Why do you think that's happening right now? Yeah. I mean, that's hard to answer. Yeah. I'm not sure.

I mean, I think some of it was funny. Let me back up. So ahead full of ghosts was the book that sort of made me like the broke out. And we were when we were trying to sell that in early 2014. A lot of publishers were like, ah, but it's horror.

And like, we eventually did get a publish, which was amazing. But just, it's not that long ago. Like now like 11, 12 years later, it's like, you know. But people were like, oh, the publisher's weekly reports. And like, oh, the sale, like, the publisher acquisition of horrors,

this is up 25% from last year, which is up 25% from the year before. And it's just, you know, the worst case scenario person in me that, you know, powers my books is like, oh, no, it's going to be a bubble that pops. Yep. Like, that's good.

That's good. That's good. But no, I mean, I think it's an healthy place. We're finally getting to see it's not just, you know, authors who look, you know, wait, white straight authors who look like me and gradies.

You know, we're getting to see way more own voices. And, you know, to me, that's like one of the most exciting parts about what we're seeing. Both in film and in publishing. Oh, yeah, I agree. I think it's like different point of views coming into it.

Mm-hmm. I think finally people are being open to that. Which is nice. And I love it. And I love seeing them like win awards.

I love all of like seeing this happen. I'm like, it's time. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, well, I mean, I'll talk about gin acts a little bit.

Like, I mean, so many of us grew up reading Stephen King and watching the movies. And then, you know, it's a later half of the previous decade. You know, so many of us were now publishing books. Like, you know, the children. If not of Stephen King, but of of of that time.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. Like, so there's less of it. There's still a stigma with horror, which I hope never leaves.

Frankly, I mean, I always want horror. Horror should be poking and prodding at uncomfortable things and on the boundaries. So I hope it doesn't lose that. Um, yeah. So I think honestly get out has a lot to do with it.

Like when that came out. Like that was the first time. Yeah. The broader culture, especially academia and mainstream reviewers were like, oh,

“there were, I remember literal articles New York Times, like, do we need to take horror seriously?”

Yeah. Because of that movie. Yeah. We need to change the old people little. That movie is flawless.

I love the movie. I love that movie.

Now, do you remember the exact moment that you realized that you wanted to write horror? Oh, geez. No. It's hard to explain how I got there.

“I mean, I'm a lifelong scaredy cat for one.”

So I've always had like a love terrified relationship with horror.

That's how I feel. Uh, yeah. Yeah. Still like if I'm alone in the house, I'm not above sleeping with like a desk lamp on. Oh, yes.

Same. Yeah. Always machines. Yeah. Still go up the basement steps too quick.

Just because I'm ridiculous. Um, but I mean, I wasn't even like a huge reader as a kid. Like I was just sort of like a nerdy math person. You know, loved the Celtics. Yeah.

Um, and it wasn't until college or I met my wife Lisa. Uh, she bought me right after I graduated. Two things happened. My last, and I hope this isn't too boring. You can cut it.

Uh, I had to take our English requirement. I was in a freshman English class.

Second semester senior year.

Oh, it was like, it blew my mind. I had like the stereotype experience and the teacher was a big punk music fan. I was too, so we connected, but anyway, one of the stories I read in that class was Joyce Carolotes is where are you going where have you been? I remember reading it.

And I actually said aloud. That's like, I didn't know people wrote things like this. I love that. And shortly after that, Lisa bought me the stand after graduation. And I hailed that.

Why I went off to grad school for two years and struggled by the skin of my teeth to get a master's degree. That's when I was reading everything Stephen King wrote. And yep, from dance, but cob, I branched out to like Peter Straub and Clyde Barker and Shirley Jackson.

And then two years after that, I got my first teaching job. And I had the weird itch to try running a story inexplicable. Like why would I try running a story? Like what about you? I love that though.

That's so cool.

“That's how I felt to when I first started writing like the my first book.”

I was like, I don't know how to write a story. Like I was like, I can't write a whole book. What am I doing? I don't imagine everybody feels that way when I feel that way. You know, in the beginning being like, I'm not going to get to the end of this.

Yeah, this is going to be something someone reads. Right. Like a terrible writing advice, so I don't give it. The only thing I tell, especially to younger people, it's like, hey, you know, hopefully you come to this realization a lot earlier than I did. But hopefully, you know, you come to the realization that it's okay to like things.

It's getting harder and harder to do that with, you know, obviously, which is, you know, social media life and everyone hates everything. Mm-hmm. You know, it's okay to like things. That means it's okay to be passionate about it and maybe want to try it yourself. And I mean, that's such an important, it has to be your first step.

Yes. I'm so, I'm so glad you said that because I'm constantly trying to tell my kids that. Like, I want to tell you now when you're young, like, you can be passionately excited about things and not feel weird about it. Right. Like, don't make people feel like, like, make you feel like you can't be all in on something.

Right. And want to do it or want to experience it or want to learn everything you can about it. Like, I feel like we have got to a place now where, like, everybody wants to be the same. And everything's cringe and it's like, that's so cringey that you're into. It's like, stop.

I hate that. - Yeah, I agree to Henry's books. Then we should really not. - Then that's cream. (laughing) - That was a great idea. - Very easy.

- Pretty easy friend. I just like making fun of him. - You love Grady. We had him on and we had the most fun with him. He's great.

- It was a fun episode. - He is so much fun. - He's so funny. - He was really fun with the would you rather. So, you're ready for now. (laughing) - Yep.

- Actually, this kind of leads into what I wanted to talk about next. So, speaking of a love of writing and getting passionate about things, AI, I have to rant with you about it. Because I think we feel the exact same thing. - Oh, yeah.

- It's upsetting me so much. Because books like this, like Victoria and Psycho, aren't gonna happen with AI and it's making me crazy.

“That it's become a thing and I feel like you need to go through”

the whole being inspired to write something, coming up with the idea, working through it, at some point reading your own writing and being like, "Oh my God, I'm a genius." And then the next day reading it and being like,

"I'm a hack and I should never do this."

- Right. - And then fighting through that feeling and coming out on the other side, like, you need to have that full experience. And I feel like all of a sudden we're gonna get these books that don't have that behind it.

And I feel like you need that injected into the book for it to be. - Yeah, I know, no interest in reading it. The whole idea to me is reading something or watching a movie or any other piece of art.

What the connection is, "Oh, this person felt like I did." - Yeah. - It feels like I do too. - Right. - And there will never be any of that. - No. - You know what they are. - Yeah, I never mind that they steal our books.

- Exactly. - Yeah, give, you know, and I was a part of the first lawsuit suing OpenAI on behalf of writers. - I love for two years. - I love for two years. - It's myself, other, hard-leading the way.

- It looks so good. - It looks so good. - It looks so good. - It looks so good. - Yeah. - And Richard Codray. And also weirdly, well, I'm not weirdly, but like not hard-writer, but Sarah Silverman,

we were the first four and spent two years as a part of it. There are so many these lawsuits, they can solve it at all. But to one, so the work I didn't continue 'cause they also chose different lawyers was weird, but yeah.

No, I mean, you know, I'm sorry if it makes people uncomfortable, but like you're not a writer or a visual artist if you're using it, you're a cab.

but I'm gonna use union in terms of your scab. - Exactly. - Yeah, it's stolen work. - Yeah, yeah. - It just, at the end of the day. - It makes me crazy. And there's just no humanity behind it.

Like, I can't come up.

I mean, you see, you can always see it like metaphors

and stuff that you'll see written by you. You're like, that doesn't make sense. Like you, 'cause you don't have the capacity as a computer to compare two things. Like you just don't.

Like it doesn't make any sense. - It's, I mean, one way, it's like it's help crystallize. Like why I'm still passionate about reading and watching movies and viewing art. But, you know, it's the connection components.

It's like, why do we have to defend this or explain why that this is important? - Exactly. - Yeah. - And it makes it so you have a book coming out on June 30th.

And it's dead, but dreaming of electric sheep. I love that title, for sure. - It's such a good title, such a title. And it has some, like, AI components in it, like, in the story.

It's about that, the plot seems so interesting to me. Can you tell us a little bit about it? - Yeah, sure. I'm bad at the quick-picked butt. - I'm terrible at it, so don't worry.

“- I think it's like a thing across the board.”

- Yeah, I know. - Yeah, yeah. So, you know, the main conceit is that there's someone who's like my age and build working for, not Google, 'cause I don't want to get sued.

(audience laughs) I can call them to Sillian. A giant tech company in the Silicon Valley. - Okay. - He's working on campus in the mailroom.

And he doesn't drop dead, but he has a massive stroke. Where, you know, he can breathe in his heart's beating, but he's not, you know, there's no consciousness. He's in a vegetative state, so they say. He signed his body directly to over to the company, though.

Prior to this happening. - As one does. - As one does. - They implant AI and nanobots into his brain, so someone can remote control

and like they're playing a video game. - So most of the things happening. - So most of the happens off page. The semi, it's strange, 24-year-old daughter of the CFO, she was an ex-professional gamer, is hired

to basically weekend attorneys in across the country.

- Oh my God. - So I'm hopeful, like I hope that a big chunk of this book can maybe be the first two thirds of her chapters, Julia chapters, is definitely satire and hopefully very funny. - Yeah.

“- You know, it's, you know, ultimately a serious thing.”

So the book is split between her chapters and chapters are titled "You", which is from the point of view of the man with the tech in his head. So he is still conscious because of what they've put in his head.

He's going through like a phantasmic Oracle Hellscape. And then the two narratives sort of link up at the end and everyone's happy and hugs. - Oh my God. - Oh my God.

- I love the deralpy of me. - But that's going to be good, I'm really. - Yeah, I love a dual pool of POV. - Love it. - That's really cool. - And do they go?

Just like being unconscious, but conscious at the same time. That's, that's wild. - That's honestly my most. - No, definitely very horrific. - Yeah, very black nerd.

- In the control aspect of it is my literal worst nightmare. I am the biggest control freak in the world. The idea of somebody controlling me when I can't. - Right. - Yeah, no.

- One of my fears right in the book is even though the premise seems absurd. I was like, "Man, I gotta get this done before it." It actually happened. - I was going to say that.

- I was going to say that.

“- It was a story where some company has brains and jars.”

Like some companies do apparently. - Yeah, yeah. - Like Futurama, right? - Right. - And they're testing, they're both pain medication

or addiction to drugs, testing the brains. And one of the, the spokesperson said, "Oh, you know, the wiring is almost "thinking out of what it would take for them to be conscious." - Almost.

- Yeah. - You're like smoking. - Yeah, you're like, you're like, "Please hurry." - Oh my God. - Oh, I hate that.

- I want to go back to something that you said earlier because I related to that so much. I'm a such a horror fan, but I'm also such a fruity cat. And you said the same thing.

I wonder, do you have any fears that you've never explored

in your writing that you would eventually want to someday? - Um, that's a great question. No one's ever asked it in that way. - Yeah.

- Right. - Look at that. I mean, there's some fears that I won't write about just 'cause it's too scary for me. - Okay.

- And being just a child, the teen of the 80s, like, nuclear war stuff really. Anything that brushes up against that is too much for me. - That's how I feel to you. - I don't write about it, avoid.

So I won't watch it off on Hymer. - Yeah. - I'm sure it's a good movie. - And to the world, definitely. - Yeah, to me is like, too real.

- Yeah. - I don't know. I mean, I use so much of my own life, much of the secret in my family. In my books.

It's hard to say what's coming next. And I wish I was someone who had like a bullpen of ideas and for novels I just go from novel. And then I'm like, "Oh no, what am I gonna do now?" And then I just try to start from scratch

and hopefully there's some inspiration. So... - Right. - Yeah, like I don't know. I can't say, like, I definitely want to try this

or that, that's the kind of, like, maybe, totally focused on the thing I'm working on. - I mean, that's cool. You gotta see it through. - Yeah.

- I got that. I have the weirdest notes in my note up of ideas. But they're like, sometimes I'll look at them

Like, "I will never go back to that."

- You also have the weirdest dreams that I feel like I do, like, nightmares I should say. I feel like so many of your ideas come from a little blip in the dream. - Yeah, or my kids weirdly,

even their kids are scary. We're like, "They'll tell me a little bit of a nightmare or something that they're scared of." And I'm like, "Can I use that? Is that cool?"

I put that in the front. - Or you even asked them for missions? - Yeah, like, I know. I should just take, I'm like, "I made you." - My short children.

- My short children. - Yeah. - I've done two things. I feel like I'm-- - Without permission, just take it out. - Including a head full of ghosts, I scarred my wife Lisa with it

because young Mary, the eight-year-old character, was definitely our daughter Emma when she was young. - My god, I know that. - Her personality, yeah. - That's so cool.

- I mean, hey, I forgot what you meant, right? - You do, yeah. - Yeah, yeah.

“- I think my youngest had an imaginary friend.”

We at Los Geltel was one, but he's not gonna be in a book. - The Mr. - But the Mr. and she named him the Mr. - The Mr. - Which I would like to see. - Which I would like to see.

- He would always find you. - Yeah.

- So she literally-- - She's not on my cover. - She said, "Don't worry, the Mr. will always find you." I think it was 'cause they were playing hide and seek her and my husband, and they were hiding under a blanket.

And he was like, "Oh, we hiding from who's finding and she was like the Mr. and he was like, "I'm sorry, what?" And she was like, "Don't worry, he'll always find us." And he was like, "I hate this." - What is that mean?

- That's so funny. - I'm sure I broke title, the Mr. Will always find you. - The Mr. Will always find you. - The Mr. Will always find you. - I like it, yeah. (laughs) - Going back to scary memories or anything like that.

Do you know, or can you think of the first story that ever scared you so badly that it's still with you to this day? Maybe you read it or you heard it. - Oh, yeah, so for me it was on movies. I mean, I think I'm trying to think age-wise,

there was, I mean, in this, why say this era, I don't wanna give away where you guys live, but in the New England area, I was, I'm old enough that it was a program called Creature Double Feature that played, man,

this was like late '70s, early '80s. - Okay. - On Saturday, so the show Two Movies,

the first movie was always like Godzilla,

or Gamma or a Kaiju movie. And that's what drew me in. - Yeah. - The second movie was a horror movie. Like a Hammer Horror movie or black and white.

You know, some of the work, like just dumbest horror movies that get, or eventually were on Mystery Science Theatre. - Right. - Oh, hell yeah. - Those gave me nightmares.

I had a attack of the Killer Shrew Nightmares. (laughs) I didn't really remember. It's such a bad movie. I had nightmares from the movie Alien before seeing it,

'cause I was listening to my parents my aunt talk about how scary the movie was. - Oh my God, that was happening to me when I was little, all the time.

“In fact, I remember you were there at one of my uncle's houses,”

and all of you guys were talking about it. And I just heard like the tail end and like little bits of your conversation, and I was afraid of whatever it was. - 'Cause I didn't even know what it was,

but I was mine, so I was scared of it for like months. - Oh yeah. - Yeah. - But by far, Jaws gave me the most nightmares before. - Jaws were such a boring into horror, isn't it?

- Yeah, I started at my high school, which is weird, when I was like fifth grade, they were showing some of these high school, 'cause they had like an auditorium. - Okay.

- And my dad took me, and he pitched the movie to me this way. He's like, oh, there's a scene in this movie that captures of what it feels like to catch a fish. That moment, right, when you catch it on the hook. - You're like awesome, man.

- You're just kind of like that. - I mean, yeah, that scene where Quint catch, you know, hooks them. - There, that's different. - You could tell me some other things about that movie.

- But you left out a bit, a little different feeling, yeah. - So like, it's one of my favorite movies, I've seen it 50 times since, but I still cover my eyes, when Quint gets, sorry for the spoiler, but when Quint gets bitten half,

that broke my little 10-year-old brain. - And I'm not sure. - I had 10 years of shark nightmares after that movie. - Oh, I believe. - So I've seen the movie, I've watched with my kids,

and we'll ceremoniously put the pillow over our faces, when Quint is seen. - I love it. - No, I've seen way more gory or stuff, I'm just like, - I'm afraid that my brain will return

to the 10-year-old brain. - Yeah, probably what it could. - It could, it's a core memory. - Yeah, you know, your kids want to see y'all so badly, so that's not where we're gonna rethink that one.

- Yeah, my oldest or 10, their 10-year-old twins, and they want to see it so badly, so I've been easing them in by being like, here's a picture of Bruce the shark as a robot. Like, it's not real, I'm trying to be like,

here's the behind the scenes of all of it. So hopefully it'll help, but I'm like, I don't know, I'll flip it. - You have a pool or friends with the pool, and put the TV and be on floats or you're watching them.

- Oh, that would be so bad. - That would be so good. - We had the projector too, we do need to do that. You know, they're so brave. Like, they're so brave at first about horror things.

So like, I can do this, let's do it, and then the night time, as well. - It'll be brave during the day, sure. - Yeah, and we regret it immediately.

“- That's how I am still very brave during the day,”

and then I'm like, this is so scary, and I don't want to ruin horror for them. So I'm trying to like, ease it in. I'm like, I don't want to give you trauma right off the bat. - Yeah.

- Yeah. - Storage problems, if you see a vacing remlin? - Yeah, we were just calling them grim. - I was gonna say, I refer to them as remlin, 'cause at night time, they always have like,

an assortment of ailments, and they're always e-mails. - They're always e-mails. - They're always e-mails. - I can't, you do after midnight.

- You can't get 'em up. - Yeah, I could straight up grab one of her areas.

What's this string just place that you've gotten inspiration from a book that you can think of? - There was a moment of like panic, when I was on a train in England. - Okay.

- I was doing an amazing book tour over there for the cabinet at the end of the world. - Okay. - And I knew the next book was due unless of the year at this point.

And the novel I was imagining doing was gonna take, was gonna be a big one and it was gonna take way longer than a year. I'm like, oh no, what am I gonna do? - I gotta come up with an idea.

- And I had this weird, what if for a zombie that I don't wanna say necessarily, 'cause it spoils the book. - Okay. - So that was sort of like forced.

(laughing) - Yeah, I guess I wanted more inspiration. - Inspiration? - The other way is it's just fun like work.

It comes from, you never know, like,

my book horror movie came from friend and amazing writer. Sorry to name drop, I've already mentioned greedy, but Stephen Graham Jones, you know, amazing guy. - Right, and amazing guy.

“- He said, "Hey, you should watch this."”

YouTube, my friend Walter Chow was this a great critic and he host these Matt Nays and then talks about the movie. So basically it was an hour of Walter and writer, musician, John Darniel, talking about Texas chainsaw mascara,

which was a movie that I didn't, I wasn't brave enough to watch until I was in my late 30s. - I love that. - But since I've seen, I love that movie. - That's a good one.

- Their discussion sent me to a rabbit hole that became horror movie. So I don't know, it's just, you never know where it comes from and try to be open to it. - Yeah, nice.

- I'm actually in the middle of reading horror movie right now. - Oh. - And I love it. (laughing) - So there's that. - That's on my TBR list, you're coming up close.

- Yeah. - I'm gonna ask you. - Once you read it, I'll just steal it from you. - Yeah. - You're all handed over.

So in going with the writing process, so do you have, do you start with an ending in mind or do you just kind of like torture it out of your characters or see what happens? - I like being put that.

- I typically have some notion of the ending. Sometimes it's really foggy. Sometimes it can be, this is the last line. I have to earn my way there. - Oh, I like that.

- So I'd say most of the time, it's obviously I have a beginning in a vague, or sometimes the end in mind and it's like the hard part is all the stuff in it. - Getting underneath the middle of the air.

- Yeah. - And you're kind of, so you're like kind of the king of ambiguous endings.

“I feel like that you have to figure it out.”

You get to decide. - Yeah, I accept that a few times. - Yeah, that's fine. I don't know if you've heard that or got it.

But do you always know the true ending

or are you kind of feeling right away, too? - It depends on the, I guess it depends on the story. So a head full of ghosts in my mind, there's no true ending. And I think, when I wrote it,

I had to purposely divorce myself from thinking there was a true ending. So I thought then a true, like the true ending would have leaked through and I didn't want that. Like I wanted to had full of ghosts,

if it was scary at all, to be scary precisely because we didn't know and have that. To me, that's just scary part of life. Like you know we have beliefs and ultimately we just don't know. At any time you use ambiguity,

it helps trigger that a little bit, which helps maybe scare people if it works that way. - I like that. - The camera at the end of the world,

I weigh under us to be, how many people are gonna be upset not knowing if the world was ending or not. Because to me, the story became not about that. It would be more about the two, the two, the husbands of what they were gonna decide.

That's me, that was the story. But something like the Paul Vera's club, it plays with ambiguity, but yeah, I'm pretty sure she's a vampire. - Yeah.

“- It's the one I believe she is that's fine too.”

- Yeah. - I would not, definitely wouldn't want to like spoil someone's reading experience, but she's a vampire. - I mean that's fun. - I wouldn't want that to be ending, I think so too.

- Yeah. - I like that, I think it's more fun. - That way. - 'Cause it lets somebody, it stays with someone longer. When they have to sit there and think about it.

- One day, I think it's a different thing.

- I hope it's never, I never want it to be like

a cheap, twist, twist or fun, but I don't want that to be just like a gimmick. - Yeah, you don't want that to be like. - Yeah, even if anyone out there has read it and doesn't like it, I don't know if this is sure

as you were, or make sure feel better, but I thought hard about it, it's like, time I do this, I know I'm asking a lot to read 300 pages and then maybe having open-ended stuff, but I try to write books that I want to read.

- Yeah. - And I like having sort of the questions and then you're afterwards. - Yeah, I like that too. I think it's scary, you're like you said.

One last question for you about your writing process or just writing in general. If readers can take one thing away from your work, beyond the scarce, what would you want that to be? - Oh, wow.

- And we're ending on a heavy question. - That's hard. - Well, especially with the novels, what I typically lean towards doing is I'm trying to make it feel like it's realistic as possible.

This is what it would feel like if there was a maybe demon possession or this is what it would look like. - Okay. - And maybe just hopefully people take away like the characters, like I can really only think

of prior to the novel that's coming out, like one must-tash twisting villain in all my prior books in heaven, you know, this one character might be villain it,

I think is these people are doing terrible things.

I write them in such a way, hopefully that you still understand why they did it. And maybe recognize like, oh, if not, but for other circumstances in my own life and the luck that I've had in the privilege,

that maybe that would be me. To me, you know, that's a scary sort of realization. - Yeah. - But yeah, I mean, but, you know, it depends on the story.

I mean, these are just the things that I write. Like in the book that's coming out, you know, the AI in the book is definitely not to be - Exactly. - Sometimes. - Yeah, yeah. - In any way, there we go.

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Visit your local Ashley store or head to Ashley.com to find your style. All right, so let's talk about your book club pick, Victorian Psycho. Excellent, excellent pick, top notch, good pick.

This book is little, but she is fierce. She is too cool. Who is that as a Shakespeare? - Sure. - My idea.

- She's my name. So let's talk about moments that made us cringe throughout the book because I cringed throughout this entire thing. It was a lot of cringe. - Yeah, I tabbed the hell out of this book.

- Oh, yeah. - I could not stop. - Also can I just say like, I love Winifred. She's awful, but she's hilarious.

“And I was like, rooting for her in a weird way, you know?”

- Yeah. - I was gonna kill that thing. - No, like, I was laughing and gasping. - Yes. - Less cringe, you're like, I couldn't, yeah.

- So we're gonna get spoiler, this is good. - Yeah, I'm gonna get spoiler, it'll be in the notes too. So you guys know if we're gonna be talking about that. - Yeah, no, for sure. I mean, I was lucky to be sent like an arc

and I happened to have the time to, you know, to be able to read it. And I was a little nervous going into it. Only because, like, any time, like, and I know this firm experience, like,

using a tile that references like a famous work. - Yeah. - And you know, we'll see, you know,

we'll never be able to read it.

- We'll never be able to read it. - And actually, you know, it's pretty awful. You know, I really do like that book. - Yeah. - So I was like, all right, we'll see what happens,

but man, she had me, at the end of the first chapter, Mrs. Abel, I'm used as a woman who has never held a penis. - Yeah. - That's how I know about that. - She was describing, you know,

“like, I'm so bad at remembering the character names,”

but describing the woman who was in charge of, like, the house and everything. - And just like, you were not expecting that line. There were so many days that he would just not expecting, or it just said so plainly.

- That's what I loved. She was just so funny and the little aside's that she would make to the reader. - Oh, yeah. - So funny, I felt like we were like friends

throughout the reading process. - She would say something like, like, dear reader or something, and I was like, "I have no girl." - Well, it goes to those, like, we're in this together.

- Yeah, you're right. - Yeah. And I love that she had, like, it was like the little aside's that you didn't see coming where she was like, "I teach them history

in arithmetic and what corpse is smell like?" And French, and I was like, "Wait, what? "Yeah." (laughs) That's part of it. And they're just sprinkled everywhere in this book.

- They're really good. - They're really good. - She's surprised me everywhere. - She did. - Yeah. Also, like, with the, like, cringey moments,

I felt like there was so many genuinely hilarious moments that I felt guilty laughing at at times. - Yes. - Like, there was a point when she's, this is awful. But with, like, original baby.

When she's like, original baby and originally did me, I was killing me, the entire time. And when she says, "I spit out the blood "and see as so often happens when one slips "an infant's carotid artery that the baby is dead."

I was like, "Why is that funny and awful?"

because one of my friends read this before me

and she was like, "Just so you know, there's like, "Hid death." And like, she was like, "No, no." And I was like, "I don't know if I'm gonna like that." And then she's like, you know, as so often happens

when you kill a baby, it was like, "Why is that hilarious?" No, I don't know how that is. - Yeah, I knew nothing going in, that was so shocking. That was a gasp.

- Yeah. - And again, laugh, despite yourself. - Yeah, I shouldn't be laughing at this, but this is hilarious. - It's one of the magic tricks of Winnie's and, you know, Virginia is manipulating the reader.

- Oh, yeah. - Like, to get you to be someone on her side.

“And I think people, based on what I see online,”

have like false memories of this book 'cause they want a roof for her. They say, "Oh, no, she's only killing bad people." Like, yeah, she's killing the picture archie. And she's killing like, you know, the rich people,

she's kind of killing everybody. - Kill baby people. - Nobody use, nobody is spared. - No, no. - Is it really a problem?

- No, nobody's killing. - Which are really admired about her approach 'cause it could have been like, I mean, it makes us feel good, but it could have been like super hero,

like, when we kill the bad people, like, I don't know, I only get so much mileage out of some of those stories, because it doesn't feel like real life. - Yeah.

When I read like happy, not all happy endings, but like when I read stuff like that, like, I actually feel worse because it's like, "Oh, that made me feel good, but that's not why it is." - But that's not real.

- Yeah, and even though it has wild and fantastical in some ways that this book is, it just feels like, "Oh, she's fine for it." - Yeah. - Yeah, because she says, like, the dead babies

and the boxes that she sent to the nuns with like the sorry, here's another one note. I was like, "I'm sorry, what?" - Sorry, here's one more. And they kind of like touch on that earlier,

“I think when she's sitting down with them,”

and she's like about to eat and kind of interview with them, they're like, "Oh, that's so awful that that's happening." And in the back of your mind, you're like, "Is that her doing that?" - What are you doing?

- And then she's like, "Can confirm." - Yeah, and confirm, just with a little sorry, here's another one, I was like, "What?" - I was just like freaking out of sort of the Victorian speak for a little bit too.

- Yeah, yeah. - There was a few times she did that for sure. - And it worked so well. And I think just like at one point, she says, "Reader, she'd off, make a fine point about Priscilla."

And I was like, "She does." - She really does. - I'm with you on this. - I know, when she found the tooth and her mouth

that wasn't hers, and then it just never was explained again.

- Who's tooth was that? - Who's more? - It was in her mouth. - And like did that happen? There were so many things that happened

that I was like, did that happen? Like, I think when she's really starting to unravel, she walks by one of the rooms, and there's a bunch of like plague doctors. And you're like, "You're not there."

- It's Christmas. - Like, what? - But they're all just like, and they just closed her out of there. Or when a original baby just talks to her out of nowhere.

That's how original baby got got. - Yeah, I think they're docking. - I love docking. - Yeah, on my second read, it's a prepare for this. 'Cause I wrote it, I read it like two, two and a half years

ago at this point, because I got the early, really copy. Yeah, I was like, "Oh, maybe this is a little bit more, "we're a more ambiguous than I thought." Even because it's written in present tense,

and there's sometimes where I forget the end of one chapter was like, you know, it's not like, will they survive the night, and then she says, "They don't." - Yeah, yeah.

- It breaks from present tension, wondering about the state of these people in the house. But her saying that, they tell us. - I'm like now. - Right.

- Yeah. - So I mean, her as a storyteller's part of it, it could just be explained away as it's a choice. How she's telling it, because, you know, by the end, you know, when she's on the gallows sort of explaining things.

“Like, I mean, it's maybe like, how am I learning the story?”

Like, how are we hearing this? And she even, like, says, you know, sometimes I'm not right in the head, you know, not in those words exactly, but she's truthful, she is. - Which I loved because that was like,

"Oh, this is a book that I could read multiple times "and still, you know, it's still one day." - And still even though, like, I won't have the shock of the baby because I had replaced with some poor farmers' babies and she just plucked from those.

- She just runs down, she's gonna have a different with those later on. I loved that. - There's still so many other pleasures to get from this, when you eat it.

- Oh, yeah. And I like that she foreshadows the gallows, a couple of times for you where you're like, "I'm sorry, what?" Like, you're just like, "Okay, you're gonna get caught."

After this, like, this isn't the end I loved about. That was really cool. - Yeah. - Do you think when a friend do you think of her as a psychopath of villain or the most honest person

in the room or all of the above? - Yeah, I mean, I gotta be all three, I guess. I mean, I do do that to a baby. - Yeah, I feel that's, yeah. - Yeah, that's it.

- The baby line. But, you know, the rest of people in the house are awful. - Probably as bad as she or as bad as she is in different ways. - Yeah, I think so, I think so, for sure.

- Yeah, Mrs. Pounds. - I believe Mrs. Pounds. - I was ready. From the dope too. - It was like, yeah. - And the green dress you gave her,

that would probably poison like a baby. - Yeah, yeah.

- I missed out on the first read, somehow.

- Yeah, yeah. - Oh yeah. - On the second read, there was more time spent with that. And, you know, that could be messing with the brain. And, yeah.

- Oh yeah, 'cause I used to make those, we looked it up. They used to make those dresses out of like arsenic. So, like, it was a little bit of a bit of a ton. - Yeah, literally damn. - They put it in wallpaper too.

Like any vibrant green thing back in the day was probably with arsenic wild.

this book was gonna be feral? Was it the one that you already read? - I think it was probably, yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah.

“- It was like, when she's, I think it was like the first chapter”

at the end when she says in three months, everyone in this house will be dead. - Yep, I was like, I took the notes. Like a couple of notes.

And that was the first thing I wrote down.

- Yeah, I was like, oh, okay. - Like the first one I tapped, I was like, damn. - And she starts it off, I think like, yeah, it's gonna be like really cold and it's gonna get colder and then everyone's gonna die.

- Yeah, it's crazy. - Okay. - Wow, all right. I'm into it. - Yeah.

- And again, I feel like we just were all, I was rooting for her pretty early on. And I, which I was shocked by, 'cause at first when I read that, I was like, oh no. Like, she's gonna be a,

she's gonna be ear-a-dee mobile. - When she's gonna kill like a whole family. - And she is ear-a-dee mobile. That's the weird thing. It's like she's completely ear-a-dee mobile mobile mobile mobile.

Like, why did I like her? I was like, that is so hard to write a character that way. - Yeah. - And have it work. - Yeah, it's impressive.

- Yeah, it's so like, the voice is just so, the person inviting, and like, and she's letting you in on it. So obviously, that sort of like gets you over to her side. - Mm-hmm. - Because she is, you know,

these people pretty terrible, right? Like, you think? - Yeah, well, you think? - Except, you know, they're the floor and so terrible who are also getting it.

- It's true, she's equal opportunity. - Now that the scene in the book also, like you were thinking, the feral scene, what comes to mind to me is the decayed crow putting in my mind.

- Oh my God. - When she was away at school. - Those kids, oh my God. - clergy daughter, school or whatever. - That actually made my stomach turn

when I was reading it. - That was nice. - That was not. - She's like covering it up, like with the maggots on everything.

- Oh my God. - That was, yeah, that was a lot. That's, I think when she,

one of the first mentions of like,

and I will be hung. That's some point during this. I was like, "Yeah, I'm from, that's not good." - But then I also felt like weirdly bad for her 'cause they were so mean to her, she's saying.

And that was the one time that like they needed her. - I know. - It reminded me, have you seen yellow jackets? - I haven't seen it. - Oh, okay, that's right.

- It kind of reminded me of Misty. - Yeah, I have a character. - She's like, she's a psychopath, but she wants to be needed. So desperately?

- And she's like bullied and kind of pushed around a little bit. - Yeah. - Yeah, so when she's needed, she like makes a situation where she's needed. - Yeah.

- It felt very much like that. - And that's what she did. She made a situation where she was. - She's like, it's the only time that they ever were like nice to me.

And like when we sad. And I like to that, like we were just saying, we don't know who the worst person in the book is. Technically like Winnie, she went for the worst person in the book.

- Probably. - There's other people that you're like, these people are also really terrible. Like Mr. Pounds is gross. - Mr. Pounds is really gross.

- Like all those people at the dinner party, like the dowager. - I hated the dowager. - I hated the dowager. - It was such a bitch.

- Another cane just hit people. - Yeah.

- When she finally got got with that cane,

I was like, all right, I'm into that. - Like a perfect way to take her out. - Yeah, it really was. And I mean, she, the thing with the winner for it is, she exists in this like weird space.

And the book, and I think it makes it them really interesting. Because she's a governess. So she's in charge of the kids and she's not, she's not known to be family in the beginning.

She's not one of the servants, technically. And she's also definitely not an equal. - No, not at all. - But she's like, she has this unique ability to be able to like

wander around the house and sit at the table and have more access to places and people without getting the same kind of respect. That's someone would. And I feel like that helped tell the story really well,

because she has all this access, but she's treated so poorly, you know, and I really like to that if that made it unique, for sure. - Absolutely. - And I think there's a lot of,

obviously the Victorian high society is like a character in this, yeah. - Yeah, the setting like it does become a character herself.

“And I think it's like kind of flipped on its ear here”

'cause a lot of people think of Victorian high societies, like, you know, fancy and like, gilded and like everything was so like, you know, like they're elite, they're this, but she portrays them as disgusting.

- Yeah. - They'll be disgusting. Like the Victorian elite are just foul. - Yeah. - And I love to that.

It was like little things like when she's going up stairs and looking at all of their rooms, and she mentions that your wax on the pillow at some point, I was like, oh, like what? - And like just a little thing, like,

large, it was in one of their hair. - Yeah. - So keep their hair back, like the scene where they're all eating. - Oh, yeah. - I think, like, he had warned you beforehand

'cause it has me so phone, yeah. So like hearing things, I swear you could hear it as you were reading. - It was foul. - That scene is absurd.

- Yeah, it was almost like a nice counterbalance to the crow. - Yeah. - The wheel. - Like that me who was just as disgusting,

even though these were things that were especially prepared, yeah. - Yeah, and how they were eating it. - Oh, I know. - Oh, it was horrifying.

Like, gouging it into their faces and so on. - Yeah.

“- And I think it's, I love that they presented it.”

That way, that like, these people like may have all this money, and they have all the power. They are just as disgusting if not more.

- Yeah.

- Like, I loved, I know it was almost like the,

like the servants in the house where like higher society, the higher society people. - They had it more together, yeah. - Yeah, like. - And the higher society parents of other babies

never even noticed. - Yeah, that's that. - That's not even blue blind. - Like a tune to like their own kid that. - Yeah.

- Oh, that. And the fact to that, when if I knew that that wouldn't be an issue, she's like, yeah, I feel like she had done that before. (laughing)

You know. And I was wondering too when she brought new baby. And I was like, what's going to happen here? - Yeah, right. - 'Cause in my head, I'm like, of course,

she's gonna know. - It seemed like a corner impossible to write out of. - Yeah, it really did. - Of course, she really just like, yeah. Not gonna notice.

- I love it. - Oh, yeah.

That's, and it was part of the whole like,

look how disgusting these people are. She doesn't even know her own child, right? Like even, and it wasn't like, oh, I picked a baby that's like the same size. She was like, this doesn't look like this baby at all.

And not only that, it's like, it's not as big as this baby. Doesn't look like this baby. It has a mold at that baby. Doesn't have. - She's great for this person.

- She's great for this person.

“- I'm also like, is it baby bleeding when you return it?”

Like, what? Like, I'll fit, it was wearing was like covered in blood. But she's like, I don't know, like baby's, they throw up. Like when she said she's like, I've learned

through experience that like mess looks like blood. - Yeah, it's the same. And I was like, and she, and it works. They just showed up the next, at the next thing being like, "Here's the baby."

- And the next thing with the baby a little older and looking even less, like, even less like, it should have like, and I loved it 'cause she was like, it knows it's gonna look different

and that's gonna be a conversation.

- Yeah. - There was like, I felt like it was so funny. But yeah, it was, and what's cool too, she obviously did a lot of research about Victorian times and like the weird Victorian customs

because they were not like that whole mummy unwrapping part. I was like, what is this? And in my head, I was reading it and being like, this is crazy and then I looked it up and I was like, oh, that was a thing.

Like they actually like wealthy Victorian families would go to Egypt, they would buy an entire mummy as a souvenir, bring it home, have a party, and then they would all just unwrapped the mummy. And I was like, what?

- That's the weirdest. - I'm sorry, what? - Where have we arranged society? - And like, for what purpose? I don't understand the private theory.

- Why aren't we doing this? - Board, rich and pure lists. - Because we cleared, very much that. - Yeah. - And we were reading more like, they were, you know,

they were talking like when she's dressing dressilla and getting her ready and like all these, like, features that they find to be desirable are all like features of like tuberculosis.

Like that's, and that was considered desirable back then. It was like being super pale and like super frail and, you know, the flush in the cheeks and literally looking sick. - Looking consumptive was the cool thing.

- And I loved that she put it in there. - Yeah. - Because it was all very real. Like again, the green dress, like that's a thing. - I think she mentions the Belladona.

- I dropped that. - Yeah. - That was a thing to like dilate their pupils and they would just go blind after a while. - But they'd be gorgeous.

- They'd be gorgeous, you know. - They guys, like, what? - But one thing I really liked about this was in the end when you're selling joins in. - And it's all, like, doing all the things for days,

they're the 12 days of Christmas. - Yeah. - The 12 days of Christmas. - And when they set them all up at the table and like feed them like food,

like they're just like having a whole feast with them. Like this is the most fucked up thing I've ever read and I love it. But do you think that Dr. Silla actually was taking part

“in that or do you think she was chained up the whole time?”

- Yeah, that's a great question. I was just sort of-- - I love this. - I was going to ask what you thought about Dr. Silla at the end too. - Yeah.

- To go back to like, you know, how much is this? How much more of this is ambiguous than maybe we think? This line really on the book where I think, you know, Winnie is confessing stuff. You know, she says, "I fear I am succumbing to elaborate

"flights of fancy." You know, the shants be like other times or something. You know? - Yep. - So she's like very early on.

- So yeah, I don't know. I mean, I think just because it's so weird to say that you enjoy your time with Winnie that you want to think all of this happened. - Yeah.

- Just as she says. - Just as she says and that you're there with her at the end and so you actually, we feel, or as the read, I felt betrayed by Dr. Silla. - Yes.

- I just do, yeah. - Yeah. - She's so weird. - You know what I'm gonna do? - Yeah.

- Why do I feel this way? - When I got to the end, I was like, "Pist Tetri Silla, I'm like, "Come on. "That's your sister." You're supposed to like, "Rag to go there."

But then, once I finished reading, I was thinking about just her being kind of an unreliable narrator. And I was like, "Maybe I don't think Dr. Silla actually "did help with all that."

“And then I think when she sees Dr. Silla in the crowd”

at the gallows and she's crying, I don't think Dr. Silla's crying because they had this killing bomb together or anything. Like that, I think she's crying because of what happened to her family.

- I think she was chained up for the whole thing. And I think Winnie just didn't want to be in an alone, maybe. - Right, 'cause that's a hard switch to flip. I mean, there were no clues of Dr. Silla's potential psychotic behavior.

- Right, yeah. - Anywhere else, you know, prior to the, you know, just to the, like, colligula, sort of, until days of Christmas, that, you know, if you, you know, that Winnie says she took a part in.

- Yeah.

“And that's the only thing I could think of with that,”

that I went back to. And I think this was smart of her to plant these little things in there was like the painter. - Like the Luchers painter that she was into. And now, you know, the mother got mad

and then the father made her hold the lock it up and shot it to the actor towards them. - So it's like, you planted that, which, like, obviously, you're not gonna be like, so you should kill your whole family.

Like, that's, but you couldn't at least go back to it. Me, like, like, like, right curl a little bit. - That's true. - That's a little hard to do that. - Put that on your hand.

- Yeah, like, have it to hold the lock

and never shot out of your hand.

- Well, I think the painter said something to her, and again, we can't be sure that he did. But she finds a note when she's putting your silhouette a bed, and he says something like, you have weird tendencies.

So, like, please stop writing me down. - That's right, that's a good point. - So, who knows, was that real? - Like, could that be just when a friend kind of just acts a whole thing?

- Exactly. - He's trying to be like, she's with me, like, this did happen. - That's why I think the end is so fun because you really can't be sure. - No.

- No. - No, it was part of it, or if she wasn't. - Yeah. - It's strange to me, me, to want to think, "Oh, Jusela is gonna carry on."

It's like the next, you have a touring cycle. - Right. - Yeah. - And it's like, "Hey, Lisa, kind of open." - Yeah.

- You know, maybe Jusela's far as next. - Stood knows.

“- And I don't know, like, which, which would you prefer?”

It would be like, was she taking part in it, or was she, would you rather her if, and I feel like I prefer her to take part in it. - In a weird way. - Yeah, this is the fun part of me,

which I don't let up very often. (laughing) That was rooting for that. - Right. - Yeah, but I think, you know, the more I think about,

I think, you know, it's more, you know, most of the stuff happened, but it's being more fracted through and went in, and goes towards what, more realistic interpretation. - Yeah.

- But she was probably, she went up there. It makes sense. It tells makes sense in the end. She, like, in less, and again, in less, she's like, this, like, criminal mastermind.

And she, like, hardyed with her for a few days, and then realized they were gonna get caught and was like, "Well, I'll just quickly do this." - No one's gonna believe that her over me. - They are related.

So you do have to wonder, is there something, are they both noticing the same screw, you know? - And then again, are they related? Because Mr. Pound said, "That's not my daughter." - That's true.

I think Mr. Pound's, which made me wonder too, I'm like, is he just saying that to be an asshole? Or I think so. - I think so. - Is that really not? - And when he talks about being,

she talks a different times up being observed, and she's not sure quite by who, and maybe it's for Sila, and for a while, she thought it was for Sila. - Mm-hmm, yeah.

- Yeah, I don't know, interesting. - Yeah.

“- There's a lot that you have to wonder,”

from when he's perspective. - And I think that's what he's fun. - You mentioned people the hate before, like we haven't, I hate the Andrew the most. - Oh my God, Andrew's so much.

And I was like, why don't we get this, and we have role to get out of it. - Is he only eight? - Yeah. - I think he's literally eight.

- It might have become bigger and older, but yeah, he's only, yeah.

- He walked in on the first day, and he was like,

screw you. This is how it's gonna go. The last day, and he was better than you. And I was like, you don't run stuff around here. Little Andrew.

And I think he was like, licking food off of one of the nurses, fingers, and I was like, "No." (laughs) - No, yeah, just, you know, Mr. Pound and training.

- Yeah, that's exactly what it felt like. And that's the thing. - Well, it's fine, you know, thinking of that, because Lisa's a huge fan of Jane Austen and other Victorian novels.

I wonder, are you all Victorian readers Austen, et cetera? - I think there's a set of big Victorian novels. - No, we'll read, or what they would think of voice of the style of the show. - Yeah, that would be interesting, yeah.

- Yeah, actually. - Yeah, I haven't read a ton of that. So, yeah, I thought it was really fun though. - I know, 'cause I feel like the Victorian novels usually like the ones I've read from school

and such, yeah. - I feel like they do present the Victorian age, just like this very, like, fan-winter, musical, and romantic time, which I'm sure it had elements of,

but like, this is just not funny. (laughs) - I mean, I do think there's an element of like, the manners, you know, it was riffing on, like, the manners and using that to...

- For sure. - Using that to represent the difference between the classes as opposed to cycling, killing babies. - Yeah, exactly.

- I think that there is that, there is the manners component to it. Like, you know, the dinner that we talked about and just how Winnie is treated. You know, how she'll say things that probably

in reality would have gotten her, like, fired right away, but, you know, for our benefit that's funny, I don't know. - Yeah, yeah. - I love the couple times where they'd be like,

excuse me, and then she'd say something completely different. - Yeah, that was great. - Like, when she says, "Are we not allowed to eat the children?" - Right. - As she's, like, looking a calf head on, like,

I was like, "What?" I also just love that everything that went ignored that she did, like, yeah, even though I think it was,

the first day that she was there,

she bites into the calf's head. - Yeah, that's still, that's the part. - Is that what we're talking about? - Yeah, she's like, and somebody finds her,

"Oh, we're not allowed to eat the children?" Yeah, and they were just like, "What?"

“And like, "Okay, you're strange, I love her."”

I just love how, like, unhinged she is.

- She's always weirdly rooted to the, like, her coworker.

- She was, yeah. - Like, you know, she talked at times about, like, dreaming of being, this is my forever family. Like, she says that a couple times.

- Yeah. - No, you know, she has nothing but to stain for her. - She also leaves. - No, it's, but there's still, like, she wants to be part of something.

- Yeah, I don't know if it's sometimes, if it's humor or her, I don't know. Like, I'm not 100% sure, like, why. - Yeah. - That's right, like, earlier, it wasn't just, like,

you know, she's just, you know, she's just siding her way through the upper class. - Right. - Like, there's no one in the spared. - No.

- I think it makes her really difficult. - Yeah. - And even stranger, like, how much we enjoy her. - I don't know. - Because she talks about having, like,

line, like, shelves lined with dead babies at home. As a child. - As a child. And that, like, she had a full grown woman, like, outside. - She's good at it.

- She's good at it. - And it was like, is that real? Like, did you really do that? - And I think it is. - I think it might be.

- Yeah. I think one thing that we didn't touch on that I would love to hear, like, how you guys felt, were you absolutely shocked when you found out that Mr. Pound's was her father?

And do you believe that he actually was? - I thought yes and yes. - I think that's very believable. Even, you know, of other stuff is of her sort of creation. I think the same thing.

- Yeah. - But I was shocked. - But I was, yeah. - I got to that point when there was, like, John Pound's, and that my mouth will literally dropped.

“And then you have to wonder, you're like,”

okay, like, is this E-Mister Pound's? So then I kept reading and it was then confirmed. I was like, oh, I should. - Yeah. - And see that coming?

And she went in there with a mission. So, like, when it happened, when it was revealed, I was like, oh, like, this makes sense. Why she went in there with, like, a mission. - When she had it, like, it's going to be changed

that she got that job too. - Yeah. - Yeah. - That was crazy. - I know.

It was wild. I thought that was a really good, just, like, like, all of a sudden, just like, oh my god. - And it was weird too, like, going back to, like, you're silly, and now that I'm thinking about it,

it's weird that you're silly. Did survive this whole thing if she wasn't a part of it, 'cause it's like, did you save her? - Right. - See something that you, like,

and you kind of see throughout the book that she does kind of try to, like, guide to yourself a little bit more than, like, Andrew or anyone else. - Look at, I'm like, I wonder what that was, like, what that connection was?

- I wonder if it was, like, the unwanted daughter. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Because she has been able to daughter,

and then they're always, like,

whenever she brings up to resell it in Mr. Pound. She's like, yeah, whatever Andrew, like, he's gonna take over the name, the family name. So maybe it was that. - And, like, he gets all, like, the classes

and all the people coming to teach him things, and, you know, she's just gonna learn needlework. - You get married. - Yeah. - To get married.

So maybe that is it. - Maybe. - But I think it kind of lends itself even more to the ambiguity of the whole thing 'cause now I'm like, well, I don't know,

maybe she was chained about a whole thing. The whole time or maybe she was part of it, I don't know. But I also love that this has, like, there were, I was reading it out loud, like, certain parts of it to my husband last night

'cause I was just like laughing at certain friends. He's like, what is this? So I'd read him a line every once in a while and he was like, what is this story? - What are you doing?

- What are you doing? - But I think it has such a good mix of, like, pure horror. Like, the end is horrific. The baby being killed, horrific.

And like, even then eating it. But you're so funny. It's like, but there's real comedy in there too. It's like, such a good mix and I feel like that's really hard to accomplish.

- It's tough balance. - Because you're either, it's gonna go too horrific and you're gonna be like, the comedy doesn't fit here and it makes it weird and, like, I'm uncomfortable with it or it's gonna go too, like, goofy and then the horror

feels goofy too and neither of these felt goofy. It felt like a perfect mix. And it reminds me that have you watched Widow's Bay? - Yes, oh yes. - I haven't started it yet.

I've been trying to like, try and recruit people to watch Widow's Bay. It gave me the, 'cause I think that show,

“that's how I've been describing it to people”

is like, the horror in it as genuinely scary times but it is so funny and the funny isn't overly goofy where it, like, you know, waters down the horror of it, so give me that. - It's a great point and I've, in other interviews,

I mean, 'cause I love, I like horror comedies, but I think it's really hard to sort of say what you describe is not to have the source of the comedy be the horror. - Yeah.

- I guess what most horror comedies are. It's really fine hard to find in my mind horror comedies that are both scary and funny. - Yeah. - Especially in terms of film and I agree this book

does it, Widow Bay is, Widow's Bay is doing it. - Yeah, and I think it's, and I was,

when we first started watching Widow's Bay,

I was like, oh my god, they nailed this combo and again, like you were saying, you just, like, don't really see that work ever. And so I was like, oh, this is like a diamond in the rough, like, holy shit.

- Yeah. - And then reading this right after we started watching this, I was like, how have I come across to pieces of media that have done this so well in the same, like, two weeks back?

- It's the horror Renaissance. - It's the horror Renaissance. - It is.

“- That's what makes me so excited for this”

to now be translated into film. I feel like it's gonna be really fun. - Yeah. - I mean, I'm nervous. - I know, I'm scared, I'm excited.

- I'm scared.

- But we always have this.

If the film does not work, we have this. - Well, in the fact that you said she wrote the screen, play that gives me a lot of optimism. - Yeah. - Yeah.

- Yeah. - All right, now I think we have to get to what I think you might have come for, which is the rapid fire would you rather kind of slasher edition? - Yeah.

- We got a mix. - Yeah, we have a whole mix in here. - New England stuff in here. - There you go. - We're so good. - So you're working here.

- Ooh, all right. - All right. - So number one, would you rather be trapped in a manner with Winifred for 24 hours, or trapped in a group chat with every villain character

from your novels? (laughing) - I think I'll go with the group chat because I feel like I won't die. I might be really annoyed and disturbed.

I think I would last very long with Winifred in the house. - Very enough.

“And you can always throw on, like, do not disturb, you know?”

- That's valid. I think that's valid.

I think that's what I would do.

- I'd be afraid she would kill me and replace me with other Paul. People would be like, "Oh, there's a Paul new Paul." There's a Paul, and there's new Paul. - See, I hate, like, I'm one of those people

that people will text me and I'll look at it and be like, "Oh, I should answer that." And then I just don't for, like, five days. And then I'm like, "I'm so sorry." And it's like, "I'm just bad at it."

And I get overwhelmed and, like, executive dysfunction. So I feel like being a group chat. - Yeah. - Is my nightmare? - Oh, yeah.

- Well, in the middle of the year, book might kill you. They might just, I don't want to listen to them. So I think, I don't know. I feel like me and Winifred for 24 hours. We might be okay.

- Could be cool, hang. - I feel like we might be. - You can have, like, a Jerusalem and Winifred kind of mine. - Yeah.

- Yeah, I just want to believe that. - Or would there be other people in the house for her to kill, just in case? Or is it just you-- - That's enough.

- And one of run, one of run, one of run, one of run. - So you do have to survive that. - Because she is gonna have to go 24 hours. - It's for her to be so close. - She started off pretty chill.

- She did. - You can have to. - Yeah, there you go. Let her lick you everyone. So what?

- Yeah. - That's all you mean. - Yeah. - I think it's fine. - Yeah.

- I'm in Winnie. - I'm going Winnie. - I don't want her like me, but. - All right, so the next one is, would you rather have a ghost follow you forever?

Just follow you around? Or a book reviewer follow you forever. - Don't, don't, don't, don't, don't.

“- Oh man, I think I'll have to go with the ghosts.”

(laughing) I don't know, be very scary at night though. But like, I don't know how you do it, but like I actively avoid reading any good reads or Amazon their lives at this.

So, I mean, if you're talking like, oh, like, I don't know, like any of your times if you just follow me around, I feel like they might be a little bit more polite, but I don't know.

- All right, so let's make it, we're making it in the next one. - But I've made it in the next one. - Yeah, yeah. - That's a friend of internet, then there's no choice.

- I would do the ghosts. - Yes, 100%. - I agree with you 100%. - I think it goes to, just 'cause I think that's fun. - Yeah.

- And I feel like those have followed me in my life. So, they've got to know here. - And I feel like you could eventually become friends. - Yeah. - The ghosts, like you could, you could have a rapport at some point.

- Yeah. - You could use to their tendencies. - It's like her mate. - I'm sure, I know, 'cause I'd start calling him Casper or something and they'd get pissed off.

- Maybe that's your bond to them, you know? - That's true, yeah. - That's true. - That's your thing. (laughing) - All right.

Do it rather receive one life-changing, terrifying, supernatural visitation, like, earth-shattering. Just one, just one. Or would you rather receive one brutal good reads for view every morning?

(laughing) - So I have to review it, I have to read it. - Mm-hmm. - There's one every morning, which is probably tough way. - But like, that's hard to start, yeah.

Geez, maybe, I mean, so, like, 98% of my day, I'm a card carrying skeptic atheist. Don't believe in anything, but there's like the 2% where I wake up in the middle of the night and I'm totally freaked out.

And actually, I'm like, "Police, such an idiot." So like, yeah, I tell people that I don't believe, but I don't want to be proven wrong.

So even though I'm leaning towards the first thing,

because in some ways that would actually still also be really cool, like, oh, there it is, there's this exists, so. - I think I would go with the first. - Yeah. - You know, probably scares you out, I mean, I'd be like--

- Yeah, 'cause it's gonna be brutal. - And at least it's just blown. It's not a bad review every day for the rest of your life. - Right. - Yeah.

- You know, that'll get you down. - That's the thing, I feel like with proper therapy and help I can get past the brutal supernatural experience that I can't explain. - That's true.

- But having it happen, like a brutal good, reads review every morning for the rest of my life, I feel like that would take years of life. - That's a whole thing, 'cause I could do that easily.

- That's a big skill, like, that's what I'm talking about. - I could do that, right? I don't want to, don't do that, you two. - Yeah, no, no, no. So this one, I'm really interested in.

“Would you rather be able to write a first draft in one week?”

- Or? - Like Steven Graham Jones. - Yeah, just like boom. - Exactly, like boom, here we go. - That took part in your right.

- Yeah. - Would you like to be able to revise a manuscript perfectly on one pass? - Ah, I'll do the one pass. - One pass, one pass, one pass on a manuscript.

- I was hoping you would answer that one, 'cause I also feel that way. - Yeah. - Yeah. - 'Cause I'm fine with the first draft taking forever.

- Yeah, I mean, as hard as it can be, I love, like, how life sneaks in. Like, it usually takes me 12 to 15 months to come up with a draft. And, oh, it's kind of fun. Like, the book gets better by living with that book

for that time.

- Yeah, things that I never would have,

in that week, I never would have come up with. Like, it took that time, so. - I'm thinking that it's too realistically, but yeah. - No, it's true.

That's a realistic one, you know? - It makes sense 'cause it kind of dips into, if something's happening that week, writing's going to change a little bit. The story might change whether it or a character might change

with it. So, I feel the same way, I think. I don't mind sitting with a draft for a while and like, tinkering with it. But once it comes to like the first pass is that it's,

that's when I'm like, (laughing) get through this. - Definitely that one. - Me too.

(laughing) - Yeah. - Yeah. (laughing) So, the next one, this is also a really good one, I feel.

Would you rather encounter a ghost from 1692 Salem,

“or a ghost of a really salty sea captain from Cape Cod?”

- He's a salty personality. - Yeah. - And maybe he's salty. - And probably as well.

- He's probably physically salty as well.

- Yeah, my knee jerk is to go with the salty person, but I think I would become really annoying 'cause I know I would just start talking like that. It's so bad, like if I talk to British friends

for more than five years, I start. - I get my way too. - We know purpose and I feel like such an asshole happens. - It just happens. - It just starts happening.

- Yeah. - But I think maybe for the comedy of it, the salty sea captain. - I think that's what I love. - I think that's what I love.

- A new impersonation. - There you go. - So you could flip into everyone's world. - I would think that too. - I'd rather barely next to Salem.

So I'm like, I mean, I love that area, but yeah, yeah. Give me the new guy. - Give me the new guy. - Yeah. - 1692 Ghost just sounds really scary.

They probably really faced a lot in their life, so. - And I wouldn't understand what they're saying, like how they talk. - That's great. - That's great.

- Yeah. - I love that movie, but like I don't know what that is. - You'd have to constantly be like, what? And then you might start talking like that. - Yeah.

- That's true. - That's true. - See, I might, regardless of all of that, I might pick the 1692 Ghost. - That just makes sense for you.

- Because I just want to know everything.

“Like I think I'd be like, sit down, tell me at all.”

Like what happened here? I need to know, I want to know everything. That's fair. I also want to know, like, are there still bodies under, you know, gallows hills or railpoints?

- You're still thinking what it was built. You want to hang out with Hammish? - Exactly. - The horn guy. - Yes, I want to know, like, tell me, tell me what it is.

Like we haven't used, they haven't figured out if there's still bodies buried in that area. And I'm like, you got to tell me. - Yeah. - You'd ask about like, Jarl's Corey.

- Oh, yeah, I feel like what was he like? He seems kind of, you just kind of a dick. - Yeah. - Like iconic at that time. - Yeah.

- Yeah. - I'd want to know all of that. - I got that. - I'm going sea captain. - I got it.

- Yeah, just fun. - Yeah. - Yeah. - That's fine. So I'll get the 1692 person.

- Yeah, I'm just going to get the salty sea captain. - And we'll sing Seesong Seesong Seesong. - Yeah, Seesong. - Yeah, Seesong. - I love it.

- And then we'll all get together. And we can learn things compared to Seesong. - Yeah, yeah. - All right, this one's kind of heavy. Would you rather have definitive proof that ghosts do exist

or definitive proof that they do not? Which we kind of touched upon. - Yeah, it did sort of. - Mm. Again, the first one would be more fun.

Like, like I would say, like I don't have to prove they don't exist. To me, that's almost like the assumption. Like if you would have to prove the other way, right? - Yeah.

- Yeah, I mean, I could be like the most famous person on earth. - It's true. - It totally cash in on proving. I'm just like, I want money.

- Yeah, yeah. - I'm a full by right now. - No, no, no. - So yeah, let me prove the ghosts. And, you know, right for tell-alls on it,

but in a view, it's like, on a mom, yeah. - Experience, I want proof that they exist simply because that's just, I don't want to live in a world where they don't exist. - Yeah, yeah.

- That's how I feel. - The fun, that, what's the fun and that?

- 'Cause I always say the same thing.

Like, I'm a very healthy skeptic at times, but I believe, I want to believe more that they do exist. - We had so many experiences that it's crazy to me that you're still skeptical.

- Well, my first knee jerk instinct is to try to explain it with some kind of... - We grew up in a haunted house. - And I tried to explain it, and sometimes I can, but sometimes I can't.

- So many things in that house be grew up in inexplicable. - Yeah. - There's definitely been a lot of pain. And that's why I'm more over on the side of like,

I don't know what, but yeah.

“- Yeah, well, when I'm always posed that question,”

I feel like I disappoint people. I say, you know, like, you know,

'cause I've never experienced anything.

- Yeah. - And I've always said, I feel like if I were to experience, it wouldn't be like slime or from Ghostbusters. - Yeah. - It'd be really subtle.

- And just often, like kind of time passes, I would be, I would want to explain it away. - Yeah. - And that would just be the way it would go. - Yeah.

- So, but anyway, I don't know if that adds anything, I was just thinking about that. - I think, yeah. - Well, and I have like one thing that happened in our house growing up that I do this day,

like, cannot explain, and that's the one that really got me, like, who knows that. We had like, my house used to be like an old farmhouse. So it's got all this like crazy history. - Yeah, it's super old.

- We found like weird shit. - Yeah, there was a weird shit there. And the primary bedroom, like they added my parents added on to the house with the primary bedroom, like used to be my bedroom.

And it always had weird chick going on in it, but again, I was like, it's fine. Nothing's weird here.

And it became my parents like art studio

when I kind of like got older and I moved into another room. - That room is scary as hell. - And it's scary now. And that we had like, it was when we had,

which like, RIP computer rooms, where it was like the room where the computer lived, they used to shut the door every time. And you had to go past the primary bedroom. The old one to get to the computer room.

And one night I was walking past it to go to the computer room. The door was shut in something from behind the door. Hit the door from inside. So hard that I jumped across the hall, like, into the wall.

My dog, like, jumped up and was like, what the hell was that? - Oh. - I think my dad heard it and was like, "What did you just do?"

- Like, when was that? And I was like, "I have no idea what that is." And it was in there. He opened the door and nothing was against the door. It sounded like somebody took this and slammed them against the door.

And it was right when I walked by. - That's terrifying. - And that's the one that I'm like, I don't know how that happened. - Isn't that the same room?

- Those are good one. - Yeah, that same room. - Yeah, I used to spend the night in that room. If like, you had people over or something, I would sleep in that room.

And I was on an air mattress, like watching the Disney Channel probably, I was like 10 years old. And there was this like, Tupperware container thing full of old magazines.

And it was probably like two o'clock in the morning. And it just slid across the room with like crazy force. I screamed so loud. My grandparents came running, you came running. - Yeah.

- And nobody, there was no way to reenact that or anything. - It was not girls tilted all this time. - No, because it was so forceful. - Yeah, that room has weird energy. - So see, if you tell me that

“and then say you have to go stay overnight in that room,”

I would be like hell now.

- Yeah, I never thought of that room again.

- If not, I say I don't believe, the girls stay in the support of the haunted house. I am not going to do that. - Yeah, no. - So I guess, on some level, I fear, I believe.

- Yeah, you have a healthy fear of them. I do have most skeptics feel that way. - Yeah. - Yeah, healthy fears there. - Yeah.

- All right, so bringing it back to the Ridgewater Triangle. If you were dropped into the Hacomok swamp, just right through the middle of it, would you rather find giant cryptid? Type footprints everywhere?

Or perfectly normal human footprints that should not be there. - I would, I would say cryptid, but then my daughter would just make fun of me because she was, when she was a lot younger, she's still a big foot stuff.

- Oh, no, she's just being as big foot as she was so mad at me. - What would I rather, I guess I would rather see the cryptid, I mean, that would be so cool for you to be wrong, be like, oh, wow, there is this giant, a big foot thing,

and then we're around. - Yeah, he wants to, I was gonna say, who wants to come across a serial killer in the woods. - Yeah, yeah.

- I don't want to come across a random person in the middle of the Hacomok swamp, that's my worst thing. - I'd much rather run into bigfoot. Just be one with bigfoot at that point.

- Yeah, it's really, yeah, like take on their costumes and everything. - I'm ready. - Yeah, let's go, I love it. - Yeah, it's starting not gonna,

trees with rocks just to communicate with them right now. - It's really, really long, crazy with it. - We can bond. - Yeah, that's a lot of good. - That's a lot of good.

- I like it. - All right, would you rather have

“when a friend plan your wedding or who's your funeral?”

- Oh, geez. Well, it seems like family and loved ones are both in danger and jeopardy in both scenarios. - That's true, right? - That's very true.

- At least she doesn't have to be at your wedding. - I'm gonna be really selfish, let's say, play my funeral, 'cause I'm already dead. - Yeah, there you go. - Like if it was my wedding, this is a chance

that I could be one of one of the people that got in. - Yeah. - That's true. - Right.

- On my wedding to be a bummer, my funeral is already gonna be a bummer, it's true. - Yeah. - So she could just make it more of a bummer, right? - She might live exactly then.

- Yeah, I know true. - And you just don't have to deal with the aftermath. So it's nice to not have to clean up after her. - Yeah. - Yeah.

- I feel that too. - I feel her wedding plans would be a little too McCallb for me. - Yeah. - Yeah.

- She can do my funeral. - I agree. So, back to some ghosties.

who judges everything you do, or a Victorian ghost who constantly corrects your etiquette? - Oh, it's ridiculous. - Yeah.

You can like go Victorian. - Yeah.

“- The etiquette stuff doesn't bother me,”

probably most of the screen of some people that know me. (laughing) Oh yeah, it could be easy to laugh off that ghost. - Yeah. - The etiquette ghost.

- Yeah. - I feel like Maul is kind of an etiquette ghost. - I was so sorry. - I thought I could call him around. - Oh, who is that? - So, I'll just take that and be used to it.

- Same 'cause the Puritan ghost would make me create. Like again, I'll take the 1692 Puritan ghosts

that like hangs for a second.

- Yeah. - It just tells me things. - You gotta go after them up. - Yeah, I can't stand that. - And I mean, just to take the logic out further.

Like if the Puritan ghost is telling me not to do things, I'd say, well, if there's a Puritan ghost, maybe the God is there God. - Oh, yeah. - I shouldn't be doing this down there.

- Oh, you go. - I'll mess with my head. - Oh, that's true. - That's a really good point. - I can ignore the etiquette, but like if your church is like, you're gonna go to hell if you do this, this and this and this and this.

- You're like, maybe I am. - That just becomes like OCD. - Yeah. - That becomes too existential. - Yeah.

- And I would start leasing my mind. - Yeah. - For sure. - Yeah.

“- Victoria and etiquette ghosts, for sure.”

- Yeah. - And after reading this book, you could just be like, you're a rose. - Yeah. - You know what I mean?

- Why are you telling me this? - Did you wrap a mummy? - Yeah. - Can we wrap a mummy? All right, you were dropped into the middle of the Bridgewater Triangle at midnight.

You can choose one companion, a ghost hunter, a cryptozoolologist, a priest, a witch, or Stephen King. - Who do you choose? - Oh, I've, Stephen and I have exchanged a bunch of emails

but I've never met him in person because he fun to be in the woods with Stephen.

- Hell yeah. - Oh, he's okay with that. I don't know if he would. - Because he wanted to be in the woods. - He gets caught in there no matter what.

- Yeah, he's just there. - Yeah. - Stephen. - Yeah, he's heard. - Yeah.

- Yeah, yeah, that's definitely for sure. - Yeah, that's your choice to use my choice. - That was like, 'cause I could be my own ghost hunter. - We got, we've ghost hunted that. - A cryptozoolologist, I feel like would just be like, oh look, that's big foot.

And I'd be like, no, I know, like, I've done my own research. - That's a puck wedgie, I know. Every search has, I'm from here. - A priest? - No.

- I just don't know, they give a witch, we are. - Yeah, I was like, I could be my own witch, you know, and then I was like, Stephen King in the middle of the Bridgewater triangle, or like a Hacomox Womp, I was like, just starting writing together. - I was going to say then maybe we could be like, let's come up with a story together. - Yeah. - That'd be a stretch experience.

- Yeah, just to have a hang with Stephen King in a weird space, I mean. - Stephen here's this thing, he's going to start writing misery too. - Yeah. - So I'm like, God, we want to be in the middle of the woods with Stephen. - God damn it, it's like a whole health problem.

- Yeah, that's what it's yours. - Oh, good call. - Yeah.

- I feel the same as you, I don't, I can be a ghost hunter in the same reasoning, and I've never met Stephen King, so.

- Yeah. - Why not? - I have a lot of questions. - I want to know about Mombone number five. - Yeah, I really think he was obsessed with that song.

- Yep. - What if he tried to be like a real woodsman was really bad at it? It's like, hey, you know, we can eat this mushroom, trust me. - Just kidding. - I got my God, I got my God, I got my God.

- Trust me. - I mean, it's a potential trapfalls to us. - There are. - You'll be silly, 'cause I might believe him. Like if he ends the thing with trust me, I'm Stephen King, I might be like, "You are right."

So you are Stephen King. - Well, then you'll eat that thing in the woods. - That's kind of fun. - With Stephen King? - Yeah, we can say they did that, we go.

- Definitely would choose him over greedy Hendrix, the greedy would do that. - That's great. - We're not plopping. - We're not plopping.

“- You should be complaining about like bugs.”

- Yeah. - If you had to hold his blazer, his might. - No, he's not used to doing that. - Like his like lime color blazer might help us see and we like work our way through.

- It could be like a flair. - I could be like, I could be advantageous. - That could, you know. He's gonna be like, "Damn, I thought we had fun on that." (laughing)

- He's gonna be joining them again. - Bill, real nice. - Barring them for my next event. - We'll speak of greedy. - Yeah.

- Last question. - Would you rather fight one Stephen King clown? - So Penny, why is this so cute? - Yeah, or one greedy Hendrix possessed IKEA product. - Or a star product.

- I think I didn't go with the horror store. I don't know, I think the clown is, you know, two morphee. - Yeah. - Every horror store was a while ago.

I don't have as much a memory as what they could do. - See? - It sounds like suck me into the store and like the other dimension. I know, but I feel like I could fight a bookcase name.

What's it called like Penny? - Yeah. - Yeah, yeah. It's kind of to be scared of. - Of Penny.

- That's true. - If that's my, I have some of those in my house. Now I'm gonna look at them ascans. (laughs) - But you do, so that's for us to see that.

I thought this was easy. And I think it's still kind of ascans. - Oh, it's easy for me. - Like Penny wise is too much like every fear if you ever see can just become so like,

no, and especially like the big spider, no thank you.

to be locked in an IKEA.

Like when you get lost in that loop

and you can't find the right way. - Yeah. - Or see for me, I'm gonna find the meatballs. - You are gonna find the meatballs, so they'll survive.

- That's actually smart. - Thank you. - They have cinnamon buns too, I think. - Thank you. - So that, okay.

- Yeah. - They have good stuff. I'll fight. - That's great. - Yeah.

- That is survival. - Yeah. - It scares. Penny wise scares the shit. - Yeah, me, so.

“- I think it's colloquially, I think it is it.”

(laughs)

- Yeah, I think everybody thinks of it as a nerd so much.

But yeah, that's our, what'd you rather? - You survived in Canada. - You killed it. - Yeah. - Two Matthews with it, with my logic.

- No, I like that. - For me, it's teacher. - That's smart. You're only recently retired. - It's not.

- It's not true. - I haven't got rid of it yet. - It's gonna reach out to everyone's well. And honestly, Grady got very into it as well. He thought to him.

- I know, I heard him, he asked for extras. - Yeah. - He was like, let's go. - We had to get him on the fly.

- I know, we were like, oh my god, oh shit.

We had no idea. - I was like shit.

“But I think that would, well, I think we all survived that.”

- Yeah. - And I know, I was a blast. - Thank you for being here. - Thanks for joining me. - My absolute pleasure. - This was so much fun.

We've been so excited for this. - Oh, same. We'll thank you. - Yeah. - Thank you.

And everybody, Reed, Paul's books. - Yes, please. - Go watch the adaptations. They're amazing. And Stephen King don't send us a season.

- We just want to be friends to you, just in the woods. Coming out June 30th, go get it. You heard what it's about. It's gonna be awesome. And Paul, if you have anything else to plug,

or you want to further plug. - I guess I, I don't know when this podcast is gonna run, but July 2nd, this is We Imagine Grady.

“Like he and I will be at the Strand, New York City.”

- Hey. - bookstore. - You know, trying to sell this book. - Go there. - I'm trying to convince him, I'll wear the suit

and he'll wear a t-shirt with that twos. - I don't know, he's going for that. - We should wear the lime green laser. - Yeah. - Yeah.

- Look, I love that. - I love it. - So go check them out. Go see where Paul's gonna be and go get his books. - Or else.

- Yeah. - We'll fight you. - All right. - Well guys, thank you for listening. We hope you keep listening, and we hope you keep it.

- Weird. - But not too weird that you don't go by Paul's books. - Do it. - You better. (gentle piano music)

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