527 - Disgraceland - Free Transcript | My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

This is exactly right!

When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. They take matters into their own hands. I vowed. I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this.

He's going to get what he deserves.

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This is one of the most dramatic events that really ever happened in New York City politics. A screen good down, good down, those are shots. A tragedy that's now forgotten and a mystery that may or may not have been political. It may have been about sex. Listen to Vorshack.

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This season on my podcast. Here's the thing. I talked to composer Mark Shaman. It's about the hang. It's the pleasure of hanging out with the people that you're with.

You know, Robin, I was always a great hang.

And journalist Chris Whipple. Every White House staffer, they work in a bubble called the Westway. And it's exponentially more so in the Trump White House. Listen to the new season.

“Of here's the thing on the I Heart Radio app.”

Or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, guys. It's Karen and Georgia. And we are so thrilled that Jake Brennan's legendary true crime music podcast. Disgraceland is now on the exactly right network.

That's right. If you like true crime and music, you're going to love Disgraceland. New episodes of Disgraceland drop every Tuesday with bonus episodes on Thursday. And rewinds on Sunday. And at the end of this episode, we're going to play the Disgraceland trailer for you.

So make sure you stick around and listen to that. And after you listen, head over to Disgraceland feed and hit follow. So you can binge over 250 award winning episodes. And you'll be glad you did. And don't forget to follow Disgraceland right now on the I Heart Radio app.

Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Goodbye. Hello and welcome. And welcome my favorite murder. That's Georgia Heart Start.

That's Karen Kilgarriff. And today we are very excited. We have a big announcement to of our favorite podcasts in the world. Joining the exactly right network. And it's such an exciting thing to be telling you about right now.

Everyone murdering us. This is Jake Brennan. I'm just Grace Land and Hollywood Land. And he's joining exactly right media. That's right.

Yes, and I'm very happy about it. I'm very excited. I can't remember if I'm here. This is completely surreal actually.

I feel like this has been in the works since we kind of met for the first time.

Yeah. It's just the the universe and all the people pulling the right strings and pushing us in the right direction and I could not be happier to be here. And just thanks. Yeah, I'm psyched. Yeah, thank you.

It's perfect. Just like a perfect mix. We were like big fans from the beginning. And like true crime podcast friends for a while. So we're glad you picked us.

Yeah. Yeah. Of course. I'm glad you picked me. It's been.

Ever since we did that event back in when my book came out, you guys were so generous with your time and we came to that book store opening that I did and probably boosted sales by like a hundred percent. So thank you for that. Which is cool. But we had just a great time. We had great chemistry on stage together.

So this is this is awesome. Yes. And we know our audience loves you because you did that during COVID.

“I don't know if you remember doing that crossover with us.”

Yeah.

We told us that amazing home down.

And it's one of the most popular episodes we've ever posted. That blows my mind. Yeah. Yeah. I still run into people in my hometown who are like.

Who asked me about that episode. Wow. Which is good and bad because I like to remain breathing. You know, I don't want certain people to hear that episode. But you want to tell us like when you started this crazy land and like what your intentions.

Yeah. I started in 2018. And it was really just to make a music podcast that I wanted to listen to. And I grew up obviously. You know, loving music.

I played music. It's what I did with my whole young adult life. It was your first band name. A cast iron hike. It was a hardcore band from Boston.

It's known for real. Yeah. Oh shit. Yeah. Yeah.

We were on victory records. And yeah.

We toured in.

What did you play or sing? I was the singer. I was the front man in that band. I think. It was, you know, it wasn't bands throughout, you know, my 20s and 30s.

And then I had a family. And I had a job at an ad agency. And I was doing music licensing. And I was really bad at it. And I knew I was going to get fired.

I was like. It was a corporate. I know. But it was like the coolest ad agency. It wasn't corporate.

But I still sucked at it. And I was like, what the hell am I going to do? I knew. I mean, this is like right when podcasts. You guys started in 16.

Right. I remember you guys were around. And I was into like S.T. Down in cereal and time town. And I was like, I'm going to start a podcast.

And my only ambition was that I thought it might lead to some sort of work in audio. Yeah. And I launched it. And it was just this music and true crime mix. And the true crime thing came from.

I knew I wanted to tell music stories. But, you know, my whole life. I've been the guy like in the in the van with my bandmates being like, I got it. I got to tell you the story about this thing.

Because the part where they're like, dude, shut up. Shut up. We know that. We know that. And I knew that the stories I wanted to tell.

I didn't want to just do like music.

Myography's and stuff that's already been done a million times.

I wanted to tell the stories that I wanted to hear. So that's where the true crime piece came from it. And then I remember it was like a month after I launched the first episode. And it took off. And I came out here to LA to meet with some folks.

I remember being in my hotel room. And you guys had mentioned disgraced land.

“I think you mentioned the Norwegian black metal episode.”

I was happy to like that. Yeah. And that was the biggest thing. I was like, my favorite murderer is talking about disgraced land. Oh, my God.

And it just blew my mind. And here we are. All these years later. I never heard of that. I didn't realize that happened that way for you.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So like, yeah, we got the same thing from. Oh, Jacob Ryan.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like you did that for us.

Yeah. So we're honored to do that. Yeah, too. Very cool. Very cool.

Yeah. We're paying it for Jacob Ryan's style. Yeah. Exactly. I'll be psyched here.

Yeah. Yeah. It's the best.

What was your first show?

Well, this is kind of. This is going to sound a little weird. And it's going to might sound like I'm making this shit up. But I swear to God, I'm not like I saw the remains when I was 10 years old. And I have a trepidation in telling the story.

Because I literally got like a beat up for this later. And the course of my adolescence from once the punk rockers started to come around. Like I saw the remains because my dad opened up for them. My dad was in a band. Oh, wow.

“And I remember I was too young to really know what it was.”

My dad was cool enough and still is and just cool enough to know that he should bring his son to this, right? And I remember him telling me, because I was into the Beach Boys at the time, I remember him telling me they're like the Beach Boys. So just really loud.

That's true. It is kind of true. And it was at a point in the remote's career, like in the early to mid 80s when they were kind of like, they weren't what they were at the beginning or what they were by the time the 90s rolled around. But it was a great experience in just being backstage and like looking up at 20 foot tall,

Joey Ramon and be like, oh my God. So I go back to, you know, my little central Massachusetts home town. And whatever, it's just the Ramones. But then, you know, five years later, whatever, when I'm like in my early teens and all my friends start listening to punk rock on my older friends, who all of a sudden weren't like ACDCs

and cool. I'm like, fuck you ACDCs, not cool. So that was already a point in contention because I wouldn't give up heavy metal. But I was like, you know, I saw the Ramones. You know, I was like, no, you didn't hear that.

Immediately fist slide. Yeah, pretty much pretty much birded hill Clinton mass. Yeah, that was what it was like back in the 80s series. Oh, boys, serious group of boys. Yeah, exactly.

Well, what was your first true crime story that peaked your interest or got you obsessed with those kinds of stories? Yeah, we were talking about the sea of a night and it was the first one was Heltar Skelter and the Manson story and reading Heltar Skelter. I was grounded a lot as a kid and I spent a lot of time alone in my bedroom reading

and listening to music. And this is the result America. That's right. Right. Like, we're called to drop out tonight.

Yeah. Tell me someone was doing better than us. Hey. Um, way to get asked back to speak at the schools you dropped out of. Yeah.

Santa Monica City College here. I go backstage. I've nothing to tell you. Honorary degrees.

“So, Heltar Skelter and I remember reading in cold blood shortly after that by”

Truman Capote. And I was actually thinking about that last night because I just started watching the feud thing with Capote, which is fantastic. Um, so Heltar Skelter and Anne in cold blood.

But I was always at a subscription to Rolling Stone.

I had a subscription to spin. I was. And I had all those cool like Rolling Stone anthologies that they would kind of mass market in the 80s and 90s.

You can read all the back stories.

And I remember reading this story about Jerry Lewis. Allegedly getting away with murdering one of his wives. And it was so wild to me that this was in Rolling Stone. Yeah. And it was also so wild to me that his nickname is The Killer.

How's it? Are you? Everyone knows and no one's tried it. Yes, exactly. And that's getting away with it because he's famous.

Because he's famous, it's almost like a cute joke. Right. Can you believe this guy? Yes. He plays the piano, but he also murders women.

Right. And then you say it in people are like, how dare you? Yeah, they're like, no. I'm like, yes.

So that was the first episode of disgrace.

And that's where I got the name disgraceland.

“This is because that's what they call Jerry Lee's home.”

And that's a bit Mississippi, which was a few miles from Elvis's Graceland. And it stood in contrast to that. That's how you could episode two. What a good, like, not coming of age story. What's the origin story?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a good one. Yeah.

But the story in Rolling Stone and Jerry Lee Lewis was super true crime me. Super true crime me. And that's sort of like my thing, like I'm researching the food fighters right now. And I'm, you know, I was thinking about this this morning and anticipation of coming on here. And I got really excited about this story about Dave Grohl in Europe with the Hardcore Band screen that he played for the DC Hardcore Band.

And he's he's getting chased down an alley from heroin addicts with a knife.

And I'm like, this is amazing.

I get all excited. And I'm taking notes about it. And you know, you can tell the story of young Dave Grohl sort of his origin story going on on tour in Europe with a Hardcore Band. It'd be like, oh, they played in this venue and there were 20 people there, but they played their hearts out. Or you can be like, yeah, they were playing this venue, okay.

But beforehand, they were getting chased by heroin addicts with knives. It's just like, you know, my hands is the performance. Yeah. I'm bit and it's more interesting to me at least. That's such a, like, asking those same questions that every interviewer asks instead asking some kind of weirder.

Right. Shit that like makes it more interesting or makes it like less of a biography than that. Yeah, it's our own take on biography. It's the way you guys tell stories as well. I mean, it's, it's, it's not apples to apples.

But your point of view is both of your points of view is so strong and unique that I mean, there are a lot of people who tell true prime stories. But obviously, they're not as entertaining.

“And that's because of the point of view, I think, which makes it awesome.”

Thank you, Sam. Yes. Yeah, your point of view, there is a piece of it where it's like, I didn't know if you were a musicologist. I couldn't tell if you were like in a band when I heard that first episode and like first got into it.

It was a brand new thing all the way around. It's like sky journalist. It sounds like a musician like all those things. Which is kind of like we've said this before. What I love about podcasting where it's like,

if you have a point of view and it's strong enough and you're interested enough and you've already done your time. Right. The research was your life growing up and being bands on loving music. Right. And dropping out of college and being in a shitty van with your band. And I remember before, you know, back to the ad agency thing.

I'm like, no, I was going to lose my job. I asked one of my best friends Adam, who recorded my a bunch of my music back in the day. And my wife, I asked them the same question. I was like, if you could hire me for one job, what would it be? And they both gave me a version of the same answer.

And Adam was like, I'd pay to just go on the control room and tell me stories. And my wife, my wife was like, I paid to tell stories. I was like, what? And I was like, I have to do this. Yeah.

“That's a great way to figure out what you want to do with your life.”

Like, what are the things? Like, I mean, I guess I might think would just be snacks. So you can't really fucking just talk about snacks. Oh, right. Somebody else telling you, I want to hear, I want to watch you eat snacks.

I want to hear you talk review snacks. I don't want to hear you eat snacks. Well, that could be a thing. Yeah. That's a different part of YouTube.

Right. There's two golden rules that any man should live by.

Rule one, never mess with a country girl.

He plays stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say, trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield. And in this new season of the girlfriends.

Oh, my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me?

The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. They said, oh hell no, I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves.

Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. 10-10 shots five City Hall building.

A silver 40 caliber of handgun was recovered at the scene.

From I Heart Podcasts and best case studios.

This is Worshack, Murder at City Hall. Could this have happened in City Hall. Somebody tell me that. July 2003, Councilman James E. Davis arrives at New York City Hall with a guest. Both men are carrying concealed weapons.

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I still have a weapon. And I could shoot you. And an outsider was a secret. He alleged he was a victim of flat down. That may have not been political.

That may have been about six. Listen to Worshack, Murder at City Hall on the I Heart Radio app. Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Ever feel like you're being chased by the marriage police. Welcome to Boys and Girls.

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Well, it's interesting though, but you come to that where you're kind of like trying to crowd source. Hey, I want to do a thing. I'm not sure. Cut to years later where you are.

“Do we have that picture of Jake and his very famous friend that she got to meet?”

Oh, my God, so for this podcast. Sir, Elton John is a fan of this podcast. How did this happen? Yeah, that was. How do we do this?

What you can't see in that picture is that I am on no sleep after like two days of being on a plane

is complete madness how this took place. I can't even believe it happened. It's like a fever jam. Yeah. I was actually on my way to Denver from Boston to go do a live version of disgraced land. And I was in my buddy Jackson and we were going to go see the Rolling Stones.

I've missed out on seeing the Rolling Stones. My favorite band so many times for various reasons. I literally, my friend Adam was once like, you know, the studio we recorded at. I woke up the next day at all these messages. Ron Wood was at the studio and I just missed it. That's the word, you know, so.

Hey, I'm going out to play this show in Denver and I end. And then we're going to go see the Rolling Stones and then I was going to go to LA and meet with some people. And I'm at Logan parking my car and I get a call from Connell from Iher. And he was like, hey, you know, if you could interview Elton John. It's that opportunity.

Would you, would you, would you do that? I know you don't do interviews. But would you just like, fuck yeah. I would do that.

“And you can be, he's like, can you be in Milan in 48 hours?”

Oh, I'm like, yes. And no idea how I was going to do that. But just say yes. This is a lesson. Like, don't worry.

Absolutely. Figure it out. The details come later. Yeah. So I at the time I was working with somebody.

We were, we're working on an adaptation of disgraced land for, for TV. And he's friends without John and he had just stayed without John and had played him a disgrace in episode. So when Elton was doing the promotion for the, the biopic that came out about it on John, I don't know how the mechanics of it happened.

But they were like, who's going to interview? And my name came up and, and that was it. So I had it. It's so cool. I had to go to Denver.

Do the show. Oh, you did it.

“I was going to say, did you do a makeup show for them?”

Yeah, really. Yeah. Because it's like everything's canceled. And you're calling. No, they were amazing.

And they had no idea. I was just like, yeah. Yeah. So we figured out we could do it. I couldn't go see the stones.

Jackson still came with me because he's awesome. Tim Malon. No, not Tim Malon. It's not that awesome. To Denver.

I did the show. I got up at like three in the morning and suffered like an hour.

I had to go back to JFK and then fly to Malon.

And it was already tight.

“And by the time I got to, it was one of those things where you get to the airport.”

It's delayed and you're going, like, I can be, I can still do this. And then you get on the plane and you're delayed on the plane. So I'm like literally texting Elton John's husband being like, dude. I don't know if I'm going to get there. And then I'm texting my wife.

I'm like, I don't know if I'm going to get there. But I'm going to Malon to have breakfast apparently. Yeah. And I'll be back. And I fully did not expect to be able to do it.

I get there. It's the whole thing. The guy with the sign at the airport. You know, I get picked up. They're just flying, like, you know, Italian driver fast.

Sometimes 10 because we're late. And I don't want to give it away where he was staying. But I go there and I'm brought up to this suite. And they walk me in. And I walk in.

It's more than a suite. It's like a whole apartment. And I get to, like, the study. And he's sitting there.

And I see he's reading an email that I had sent to somebody with the questions.

And like, my email. And he's like, oh, hi, Jake. How are you? And I'm like, what do I call you? You're going to call you sir.

You're going to call you. He's like, Elton. Where's your bathroom? That's a post script. I go to use the restroom.

And he's like outside in his office suite type situation. And I'm in the restroom. I'm sleep deprived. I'm a mess. And I'm like, I couldn't figure out a flush to toilet.

It's one of those European news. Does it have a lot of different flushing systems? All of Europe. But what are they doing with their plumbing? I don't know.

It's rich people stats. It's very ugly. Yeah, so I'm like, what? I'm like, okay, I got to go out and I have to ask Elton John how to flush the fucking toilet. My other option is I just pretend.

“And then Elton John's going to be like, who's this barbarian who doesn't flush the toilet?”

Disgusting. It's not good option. It's not good option. So thankfully, I figured it out. It was like the flusher was like flush pun intended.

I guess on the back of like wallpapered. Oh, it was like a rich person. It was the secret like, do it. And it worked. And I went out and we did the interview.

And it went off without a hitch. Thank God. That could have ended really differently. Yes. Yes.

Oh, before we go any further, I have stuff for you guys. Oh, yay. That cool. Absolutely. I got these.

For both of you. This. All right. So when we did that show in LA, I tried doing this thing. I went record shopping for you guys.

Okay. Yes. I love it. And I flew from San Francisco to LA. And I left like all the records on the plane.

Oh. So I'm like, I'm doing it this time. I'm doing it this time because I knew I was going to see it. So okay. So I got these.

These are not the exact same ones. These are cooler, I think. I don't remember really with the last ones. But these are these all have either some. Some significance with you guys.

You know, the whole, you know, whatever they all have some meaning. So Karen, I know you have some Stevie Nick's battery in your past. Yes. Thank you. So I saw that.

And I was like, this is, you know, it's got edgy 17 on it. Oh, my God.

“I think there's an aunt with a Chevy SS super sport in my cousin Lisa, who had this eight”

track in her Chevy super sport with the back jacked up that she used to drive me to four each meetings going 120 miles an hour in the backwards. A pet Luma also stopped dragging my heart around on this album, which is one of my favorites. It's a fun time. Amazing.

Tell everyone in the audience what it is. This is Stevie Nick's album, Bella Donna. Yeah, well, we're talking about the greatness of. We're talking about who took this picture. Yes.

It wasn't Tom Petty. So amazing. Okay. This is another same from the same era. This is a recent episode of disgraceful.

Yeah. This is the pretenders. Fantastic album. And just Chrissy Heinz badass has has transmitted itself onto you in some fashion. So.

Oh, what an honor. I love this. I was just listening to this episode. And she is just such a badass. She really is.

And a lot of people don't know. I mean, she was almost in the clash. I know. She was almost in the sex pistol. She was almost in the damned.

And you're thinking like, oh, that would have been awesome. I'm like, no, because then the pretenders. Yeah. And when you watch those videos of her from the 80s.

Like, first of all, thank you so much.

Because this might be the best compliment I've ever gotten in my life. To even be slightly associated with Chrissy Heinz. But when you watch those videos of her and those pretenders songs, they're so original and individual to her. Like, I don't see her being in other people's veins.

Right. It's her. The word icon gets overused these days. In my opinion, she is iconic. Yeah.

Yeah. I don't know if you know this, but this is a quintessential LA record. And Arthur Lee from love has a kind of true crime past as well. So say what it is. So there you go.

Love. Love. Yeah. With Arthur Lee.

Real to real is the band.

When it was like this, I thought it was the gogos.

Oh, first album I'm like, yes, you've made it.

But now listen to this. Because it's something I don't know. Well, I guarantee you that Charlotte, Kathy from the gogos was listening to that album when she was writing a lot of the riffs. They were on the first gogos album for sure.

Sorry.

“Can you just look at this group of people real quick?”

Oh, wow. This is like LA 1972. Yeah. It's Charles Manson. Yeah.

It got me with the fucking 74. 74. Amazing. Thank you. You got it.

All right. So George, who am I? Moving. Who am I? Get to know yourself.

Jake Brennan. Did you say that? I don't want that pressure, man. I'm going to do it. It's all show tunes.

Kind of. Goth's show tunes by the cramps. Yes. So I know what the Danzig in Henry Rollins lore in my favorite murder. And I actually was looking for a Danzig album.

Couldn't find it. This is actually better. I don't. The first cramps record is just you cannot mess with this album. Thank you.

This is amazing. This is the cramps greatest hits. I don't own this. It's so beautiful. I'm honored.

Where's this? What is this? Is this the ballroom? The mental institution. No, it's not the mental institution.

But it's just, I'm not exactly sure where that picture is from. But great songs on that album. I can love this. I mean, I love that they were in Glendale. Yeah.

They're living there on. Just hanging out around here. I gotta say. It is serial killerly around here. Isn't it?

It really is. It's truly like. A lot of cement and like a long blocks of nothing. Yeah. There's dirt lots.

We're like, what's over in the corner over there? We just keep driving. Yeah. There's a lot of places to dump bodies. Really.

Or like the Hills Hyde Strangler had their other shop right around here. Very close to here. Really.

“And that alone is like, what portal to hell opened?”

Where that took place? Exactly. You get carefully. You can get sucked into that portal. Yeah.

Speaking of portals. Evan Dando's. This is. Come on. Feel the lemon heads, which is not not the one with all the hits.

But it's still amazing. It's not. It's a shame about Ray. I actually think this is better. And it's a 90's connection.

Gen X. Yeah. I love that. I am. And.

And I'm from Boston. Oh my God. It's beautiful. Thank you. And also Evan Dando's.

One of the most beautiful people on the planet. He really truly is. You know, I toured with him for a quick like three or four days. Just me him and my friend Greg Conley was torn managing. And.

In addition to all the insanity times a million that you could imagine from him. He was the sweetest guy.

And he never said a negative thing about anybody.

Wow. That's hard. How did it? And it really. I even baited him a couple times.

I was like, reenroll. I wonder what this asshole. And I mean, it wouldn't go there. I don't think I could be friends with someone.

“Because like, that's how I bond with people.”

I was like, just talk it's a shit. It was a real eye opener for me. It really was. It was such a strong thing that it wasn't an accident. You know what I mean?

Like he must have had some governing instinct when he was a kid to kind of make him that way. Or maybe it's just his life as a beautiful person where he's like, everybody's okay. Right. You're just like, you need to get kicked in the teeth at the time. Right.

What's wrong with life when doors just fly up before your supermodels want to sleep at you? Everybody wants to give you all their drugs. Think of you all drugs and food? I don't know. I was like, not my experience.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh. I just didn't call me up and bite me on tour dude. I don't know what you're talking about.

Okay. This is so cool. All right. You know, this kind of like the earth elite thing. The love album I want for a little more obscure here.

This is the Louvre Brothers Satan Israel. Which look at that. That looks like a slayer album cover from like the 1950s or 40s. I know. It's fucking incredible.

It's like a gospel song. Yeah. Yeah. Without Satan Israel, which is like, they're like anti Satan, but you could listen to it. It's a warning.

It's very much. Satan is real. Watch out what you're doing. I love it. This is like, feel this.

It's heavy. Yeah. This is like, music was really weighty. This is incredible. I'm going to put it on our record wall.

We have like the record wall thing. Nice. So there you go. Thank you. So much.

I'm going to listen to the drunkards doomed by myself. I don't know. So. There's a good for that for sure. And they hate each other and hate each other and wanted to kill each other.

So there's a lot of others for real. Oh, yeah. There's, and there's a disgrace in it. So coming on the Louvre Brothers. Yes.

How long does it take you to? Like, because you get deep. You're like, we do homework podcasts, but it's like a week of homework. You do. Same.

Yeah. But what Karen was saying earlier, it's a life's long kind of, you know, baseline. Education and understanding of this stuff. And then the week of research is, I kind of know where the bodies are buried. So to speak and where to look.

And it wasn't always like that.

I mean, the first episode took like six months almost a year to put together just with the first episode. Yeah. Because you're just figuring things out. You don't know what's what.

But yeah. It's a week to research. And then it's a week to write. And then I don't know how long the guys take to produce it because we have a production cycle.

You know, call it a week for that.

Guys, don't wave your hands like that. It can see us right now. You're just like, no, are you kidding me? They're not. They're not.

I don't know. Walks that open. Truly be on the reason. Thank you, guys.

Oh, and I was going to make a confession that I love that merch that you have your bag, which is basically four of your big stories.

Yeah. It would not finish the big, large episode. Yeah. It was the most horrifying story. Yeah.

It's pretty horrifying. It's so bad.

“And I was just like, I remember where I was.”

It was my old house, the backyard. And then I just like, oh, no, no, no. I can't do this. And I was like, I don't really have, you know, as we people who listen to true crime or pay attention to it.

It's like you're used to certain things. Mm. That story is so above and beyond. Yeah. And it's tough.

I've run into that a lot. I'm coming up on one, actually, that I don't know how I'm going to tell you. Would you be jailing? No. That was.

That I could get through. That was just feces. You could, I could work my way through that. And not to use. Yeah.

And yeah. But the Ian Walken's lost profits thing.

I've never done anything that involves kids.

You such a dirt bag. And he died in a way that, you know, like, seeing violence being voice-up on anybody. But it was just, it's a very dramatic story. And it's a kind of a current story.

Yeah. Which one is that? Lost lost profits. I haven't done it yet. It's a horrible act of pedophilia that's like so beyond shocking.

That you're just kind of like what in the living fuck happened. Exactly. Yeah. It's brutal. Horrible.

Are there any of that you won't do it? Like, we have true crime stories that we just don't cover. Because it's just the drugs of humanity. And it's the absolute worst. And there's no way to like spin it the way we like to do

with like victims advocacy and like making a story that's somehow palatable. Yeah. You have that. Yeah.

I do. I do. I have a couple. And for various reasons. The, again, the kids thing.

“Like everyone's like, you should do a Gary Glitter episode.”

I'm like, I think I'm good man. I don't want my audience. You know, but with the Ian Walken saying, I think I know how to do it. I've tried doing the Elliot Smith story.

Mm. I researched it. That ending. And there's a lot there that his friends, you can just tell there's such love for him and it's so sad.

And I'm not saying I won't do it at some point. I just don't know how to do it. And have really a reason to do it. Because I don't have a point. Honestly saying I thought about doing it.

It is literally heartbreaking. Yeah. It was for him. I also I feel like he was this entity that was doing a thing. I've been doing it for my experience.

Like the first I remember where I was when my friend put that CD in her car CD player.

And it was like, you have to hear this. And then we just sat there like, oh, am I going to sob so hard? I never stopped crying. Yeah. What's happening to me?

And later, this is my big bra. And I'm sure I've told you the story. But he would play at Largo where we would do comedy shows. So there was crossover. And he came and did when me and Mary landed.

Girls guitar club and he came and was our guest on the show. Just because he was in town and like flanagan got him to do it or whatever. And I think we had 18 people in the crowd. We do it was not a sellout show in any way. My friend David still thinks me for like, I can't believe I was there when I got to see that.

Like into a show. And he plays on songs. Yep. Oh my god. He came and played.

I was about to have like, I saw him once. That doesn't even come. But then afterwards, here's my double bra. Triple bra is that afterwards we're standing in the back. Because our act that I did with my friend Marilyn, it was all just like, play the guitar even if you don't know how to.

And then we'd like go into a cover where we're barely doing like the open chords and stuff. Right. And it got a little bit better as it went on. Very obnoxious. I just I saw it.

I was in the crowd watching you. Not that night. Unfortunately. No. We don't know.

“You should have come to our values show.”

Really great. You're at the money. Anybody of Boston or you're at some puncture. She's in full scott. No.

Thank you. But all I was going to say is that I got to have a comment. I got to have a conversation with him after because we were he was complimenting what we did. Where I was like, please don't do this. I'll have a nervous breakdown.

And then he started talking to me about how much his voice bothered him and that he didn't like. And I watched a person who I was like. This is what artists do to themselves. Nothing's good enough. It's always bad.

It's this thing where you think you're disabled. And him as a person who was the least disappointing performer and musician. I felt like I'd ever kind of experienced. Every time I watched him perform like when he was on the Oscars. Yeah.

And it was like so vulnerable. Everyone was so wrapped and it was like in it was perfection. And that song was it was such a time and place. And to hear him just being like. I'm sorry.

Which my voice is back where I was like, no, no, no, please don't do it. And that it inspired me later because I loved to pull myself apart and be like. And that's why you don't do anything. Yeah. And it's like if that man did that to himself.

If only he had delusion or whatever it is to just not do that to yourself to keep going.

How it could have perhaps been different.

And maybe it's like many wouldn't have been himself.

Right. But it made me later just go.

“Don't shut the door on yourself because you've decided it isn't good when people love it.”

Right. I love that. Yeah. I love that too. And that's the thing with art.

It's the best art. I care what medium it is. It's risky. Whether it's a guy who doesn't like his voice. But things like an angel or it's a comedian who ends up talking into a microphone all the time.

And as to push past whatever you're thinking about with your voice. And I think we all kind of do that. And for in some weird cosmic spiritual call, whatever you want way that risk the energy of taking that risk ends up in the work. And I feel like it ends up attracting people. You know what I mean?

Like it makes it, I don't know. I don't know. It's magic. Yeah. I can't define it, you know.

There's like a seven sense of like, oh, that's a human being actually being a human being. Right. Right. Right in front of us like go over there because that's permission. Right.

Like you're doing it now. I can do it. Yes. And you can connect with it on a way that's not just like corporate. Yeah.

For real. We're going to play a game. Do you want to do musical madlips? Sure. Yeah.

I've never played musical madlips.

Well. A little scared. I'm a little scared. I have neither. You might know her flush is Jackson.

“You know, it's kind of odd that you have a member of your staff who's actually banning a disgrace on episode.”

Like I connect with her on email. I was like, oh fuck. Oh shit. And I Google word search her name on in my just to make a choice episode. Just to make a picture.

It was cool. And thank you Kate for being cool. Yeah. We, that's like our like exactly right. Bragg is that Kate Sheldon box works with us.

Yeah. I've been on a thread with my family all day. I've been on a thread with my friends. I've been on a thread with my friends. I've been on a thread with my friends.

I've been on a thread with my friends. I've been on a thread with my friends. I've been on a thread with my friends. I've been on a thread with my friends.

I've been on a thread with my friends.

I've been on a thread with my friends. I've been on a thread with my friends. I've been on a thread with my friends. I've been on a thread with my friends. I've been on a thread with my friends.

I've been on a thread with my friends.

I've been on a thread with my friends. I've been on a thread with my friends. I've been on a thread with my friends. I've been on a thread with my friends. I've been on a thread with my friends.

“Do you drop the checkers in? I'll just be asking you for forms”

of the English language, and then we're going to be plugging them in and reading new lyrics to an old song. It's lyrics. I'm supposed to hear a grammar here. I'm supposed to hear a grammar here.