539 - It Keeps Getting Ruined

I'm Jake Brennan, and on the disgraceland podcast, I explore the wild lives of rock stars and unbelievable true crime stories from music history. These are the stories you have earned, the kind you'll end up telling someone else. Like the time Paul McCartney spent in a notorious prison, or the bizarre crime Lady Gaga is accused of, where their time blondies Debbie Harry is skate, Ted Bunny.

Listen to the disgraceland, on the I-Hurt Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, it's me, Anison Field, the host of The Girl Friends. I'm back with more one-off interviews with some truly kick-ass women on The Girl Friends Spotlight. I'm going to climb this! It's badness, hereditary. Let's see how we can stop killing.

I'm not too intimidated by her. What are you talking about? Listen to The Girl Friends Spotlight, on the I-Hurt Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The trail weekly is back with brand new stories, from threatening text messages disturbing a small Midwestern town.

“It was from an unknown number, who else is getting these messages?”

Why did it start with us, to long cons, and stolen identities? Who lies about being this sick? This was the last time I ever believed to win, she said. Listen to the trail weekly on the I-Hurt Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, and welcome to my favorite murder. That's Georgia Hardstar. That's Karen Kilcaref. And we've got some surprises in store for you today.

Bloody Vacationale! Hey! Oh, those are the longest I've ever seen in your nails. They're not mine, they're like, literally Vacationale's that I'm obsessed with. Will you throw up those nails to your camera as we are on Netflix and show the world their gel X?

And they just make you feel like a grown-up. Yeah, they look really nice.

My nails have always been like junior high school, and now I'm like in my 30s working at a law firm.

Oh, my God, congratulations! Thank you! When did you get that job? What I got was like a nail! They came with the nails.

Exactly.

“Wow, because my nails are the manicure I gave myself at the last minute, because I couldn't somehow get to the”

Manipetty salon? Sure, your camera? Well, no, because it's just dire, because it now looks like a French manicure, but that's not how it started. That's how it happened.

That's how it happened.

I also always immediately smudge my right thumb.

Oh, it is. That's so irritating. Life is hard. Look at that. Yeah.

Are you having any since you've been back from your trip to Italy, which now that you're a travel influencer, I think we should discuss all of your opinions. Life's in dislikes. Finally, thank you. Come with me.

Is anything staying with you that you miss about being on that trip or like your Italian experience? You know what I miss, which was really nice, which probably gets old after a while, but there's only two weeks, is dressing for dinner. Oh, yeah.

Because they have that period between the afternoon and the evening, where nobody does anything.

“You take a nap, and then you have to put on like a dress for dinner, you can't wear”

tennis shoes, and it's just like made everything feel so much more special. Yeah. I loved that. Yeah.

But yeah, it was incredible.

It was a really good, beautiful time. The lawn is incredible. I'd go back there immediately. Yeah. We stayed my mom texted me a thing of like, don't wear your star at David.

Again, she texted me this thing. It was like, ever had a fucking key to jewelry. Yes. She said, don't wear your star at David, like, keep it low key that you're Jewish as if that's not what I already do.

But then we found out we were staying at a hotel where Mussolini had stayed before. Yes. So I can't tell her that. You're like, look, I'm seeing their side of things. No, that's not good.

But also, you can't get away from a city's history. You can't, you know. It's not your fault. That the really nice hotel was also his wife. My wife.

What was it?

World War Two, though. Oh. Thanks, sir.

You can let yourself off the hook for that one.

I mean, it must be a huge relief. It is. What's up with you? I just been wearing a star at David and I've seen what I can kick up. Not much.

You know, we went on vacation, obviously, you know, at the same time. But I did a staycation and truly just tried to do nothing literally lay on the couch and pull a blanket up to my chin like it was the middle of winter. Any chance I could. Love it.

Did you binge widows Bay? Oh, yeah. Oh. And now I'm in the watching people react to how much they love widows Bay on social media, which is such, like it's becoming this new way that we all watch TV, where it's just

“a satisfying for me to watch people get excited to go, here's what I think this show is.”

This show is my favorite. I, I fuck the whole thing up though. Here's the negative side of that. I watched a spoiler or an accident and knew that last bit, that last, yeah. Exciting bit, I accidentally watched a fucking, like it's the whole turning point of the

show.

When you, you went in knowing it.

When she goes about, you know, I was pregnant. Yes. What happened? And at the beginning of that episode before we've been half, and I go, I get why that matters because I thought I was just like a regular random scene that I was going to

laugh at. Yeah. It was a whole point of the fucking show. Yes. And I knew.

And I was so bummed. Like Vince Gasps. And I wanted to go. And also the danger of when we get all this stuff through social media, you can't control that someone's about to give you a spoiler as we do on this show constantly.

Yeah. That wasn't a spoiler. And you should only watch it.

“Like you, that there's a backwards way that like I always seem to end up consuming like a TV”

show the way I hate the most, which is you know all the big moments before you go in. Yeah. Then you're kind of judging it. You have to see them at that point. You know the story.

Right. But I would argue that with Widow's Bay, they're doing so much. They work so hard to easter egg and storyline. Yeah. I watched a woman lay out this whole idea.

And we will, in our social media, we'll post her video and we will give her the full credit because it's a really brilliant thing she noticed, which is that time has all screwed up in Widow's Bay. Like the calendar? That's a car accident.

Yes. And that in her theory, she's like actually these three episodes all happened in one day. But you don't realize it. If you think about it, you can't tell when a thing is actually happening.

You're not sure. Yeah. And she introduced all these kind of doubts about, oh, that's right. And the time where he's got the wolves calendar. But then he opens the month that they're in and it's the car accident.

It's so random. Like there's so many easter eggs about you assume you think you know what's going on and how and it's going to start like, it's what's the comedian's name who plays the shaman. It's just like the best.

It's Chris Fleming. It's just the best. You know, five minutes of TV. It's so good. Chris Fleming.

He's so perfect in it. Because it's okay. Just drink it slow. It goes, I just want to understand. It's so fucking good.

So good. This is not a, we should, it should be a Widow's Bay. Watch podcast just for the next four years. We turn it into, you have a true crime update. There's a true crime update and it's just plain good news, which went in the 10 years we've

been doing this podcast as that ever happened. Seriously. Rex Huerman, the Gil Go Beach murderer on Wednesday, June 17th, was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole for the murders of Megan Waterman, Melissa Barthelame, Brooklyn, Costello, Maureen Brainer, Barnes, Valerie Mac, Jessica Taylor, Sander Castilla,

and Karen Vragada, and he initially denied these charges and he was set to go to trial, but basically he changed his plea to guilty in April and now he is in jail. So yeah, I'm glad that is over with him. He can go rotten hell. Yeah.

Wow.

It's always strange when it ends and you know the reality and it is the big ghost,

the big monster by the serious monsters, just some horrible man. Some small little man, the coward. Yeah. That's why I love cold cases. It's like, that's not make them this big, you know, powerful being.

It's just some fucking dad from Long Island who sucks. Yeah. Yes. Not good. Okay.

Should we get into it? You mean talk about our network? Sure. Hey. We have a podcast network.

It's called exactly right media. Here's some headlines. No, here are some highlights. Here's some highlights. This week on our podcast bananas, Curtin Scotty discussed whether all the water on Earth

has already been peed in. They talk about a world cup trophy-bong that landed a head shop in legal trouble and everything between. And then over on Ghosted, Ross is joined by comedian and Tara Queen, our friend Lizzie Cooperman. They shuffle the cards while discussing, yes, no later manifestations, hermit crabs and

“one lingering question, when will Ross become more famous?”

Well, we kind of have the answer to that, right? Because Ross just released her new audio book. It is her memoir and it's entitled, "Peeing in an empty bottle on other glamour" shenanigans of an almost famous transgender comedian on the road.

It blends stories, obviously, from her cross-country comedy tour with exclusive stand-up and behind-the-scenes audio.

“So if you want to support Ross, she is an incredible stand-of-comic hilarious podcast”

or we love her, obviously, member of our family here, but also just like an entertainer to beat the band. Really. Ross is going to be great. Ross Hernandez.

Find it. Then this week on Trust Me, Lola and Megan are joined by Dr. Christine Marie Lola's mom, who was also the podcast very first guest. She shares how she went undercover with the FBI to help bring down self-proclaimed profit, Sam Bateman.

So if you watch "Trust Me on Netflix," this is a little more talking about. You can also watch the full video episode now at youtube.com/exactlyrightmedia. Karen goes first. So my story today begins on March 1st, 1778. Are you ready?

Not so long ago. So long ago. We're talking about an area that I truly and literally know almost nothing about except

for this story, which is the revolutionary war era of America.

“I know that you can't correct me in any of these mistakes I'm about to make, right?”

No. That's why we do this podcast. Right. Again, my excuse is that I changed schools, fifth to sixth grade. Oh, that's got to be.

Yeah, that's hard. They learned about stuff like that and the fifth grade at my new school and in the sixth grade at my old school, you're preaching to the choir. Roman numerals, I was sick that day. All the presidents?

Not my business. Not really. Never brought up. I didn't vote for them. I didn't get to see pictures of them all around the walls all year long.

Okay, so March 1st, 1778, we are in Brookfield, Massachusetts, West of Worcester and it's a snowy night around 9 o'clock. Most of the locals in Brookfield are either at home sitting in front of the fire or they've already gotten into bed under their thick quilts and blankets because it's so cold outside. But a local, wealthy local businessman, 37-year-old Joshua Spooner, he's outside in the

elements because he spent the last few hours at the local tavern and now he's making the quarter mile walk home down Brookfield's main road. The start-out side almost no moonlight, he's holding a lantern because this is old fashion time and that's required at night. So chuggy, right?

And he keeps saying hello, hello. And first, the beginning of his walk, he is with his friend, Dr. Jonathan King, who is the town's physician. The doctor splits off in the direction of his house when they come to the fork in the road and then Joshua continues on by himself, eventually making it to his very stately

two-story home, which is one of the nicest in Brookfield. He climbs a set of stone steps that take him from the street up onto his property. He unlatches his front gate and then he heads back toward one of the back entrances of the house.

He never makes it inside.

Instead, Joshua Spooner's body will be discovered, beaten, strangled, and stuff down his well. What? Yes. The story of the murder of Joshua Spooner, which is one of the very first high-profile

murder cases in America. Do! 17. 78. Get at that vintage murder, right?

Happy 4th of July, everybody. That's right. While we are lighting off firecrackers and trying to dissociate, let's remember how this country started with extreme violence on a day to day basis. True crime isn't new.

The main source of today's story is the research and writing of Deborah Navas and the rest of the sources are in our show notes. So it's 1778, only two years have passed since the signing of the Declaration of Independence. We're in deep, early history, for us, kind of nauseating, it feels like you have an

“eat and lunch, but you have to listen to the teacher keep talking.”

The Revolutionary War has continued and will continue for five more years.

It's been going for about two and a half three. So the American Revolution is the backdrop for this whole case. The colonies are fiercely divided at this time between patriots and loyalists and Joshua Spooner, as murder victim, was a supporter of the Patriot cause. That cause is especially strong and well-supported in New England.

At this point in the Revolutionary War, British leadership has been driven out of Massachusetts. The colonies now governed by revolutionary leaders.

So the problem is Joshua has a prominent loyalist in his family, his father-in-law, Brigadier

General Timothy Ruggles. Cute, right? Little Timmy Ruggles, Kansas's father-in-law, his wife's Bathsheba's father. So Bathsheba Ruggles is the woman that Joshua's married, Joshua Spooner. Right.

That name back. Bathsheba. Julia Witch. You're which or you're a Bible lady. Congratulations.

Like one of two things. Yeah. In this story. Oh, which. So before the Revolution Timothy Ruggles was a very powerful man.

“He held a bunch of important political posts in Massachusetts while under British rule.”

So when the Revolution started, colonists began to embrace the Patriot cause, Timothy Ruggles, stays committed to the British crown, huge mistake in Worcester. So in the mid 1770s, Timothy Ruggles goes to New York to join the British Army. That's how much he commits. Right.

Literally, wrong side of history, bro. Read the fucking room, dude, of Massachusetts as a room as wide as Massachusetts. So obviously, bad for his reputation in New England. So soon, Timothy Ruggles is considered one of the most despised political figures in Revolutionary Massachusetts.

Wow. So which compare him to these days, do you think? Donald Trump. Wow. Maybe.

Sounds right. So this was, was that a little too fast. So all of this has created serious tension in the spoon or household between Joshua and his wife, Bathsheba. She is very close with her father, Timothy Ruggles.

And there are four Ruggles daughters, but Bathsheba has always been known to be her father's

favorite. She's also suspected of sharing his political leanings. So when he leaves town, basically, to join with the British, Joshua forbids his wife from having any communication with her disgraced term coat father. And of course, she is devastated.

You've got to discuss politics before you get married. I mean, get on the same page before you get, well, here's the real gossip about this story. Is that this relationship has never been good. Okay. It was basically engineered in 1766 as a political arrangement hashed out by their wealthy

fathers, Timothy saw the political writing on the wall, and he knew his loyalist sympathies could someday cause harm to his beloved Bathsheba. I mean, I was kidding about that because women don't get to choose their politics or their husbands back then.

“So discussing politics before you get married, deciding if you want to marry them, they're”

not as not an option. So I was not being serious. No, no, no. It's not only not an option. It was literally like how dare you.

You couldn't suggest that. I know. It would be backhanded and told to go make a sandwich. Right. I don't know.

And then you have sliced bread. So imagine that. I mean, back before the internet, there was still doing that. So when Bathsheba was around 20 years old, she was married off into the Spooner family who were wealthy, Boston merchants because basically Timothy Ruggles knew his daughter would

be protected socially and financially. But both Joshua and Bathsheba grew up incredibly privileged in aristocratic families. Both had generational power and Bathsheba is rally described to be exceptionally beautiful. Josh meanwhile is a successful lumber man. So there's on paper, they were supposed to make a perfect couple, right?

“She brings all the gorgeousness, he's money, in reality they're just a miserable pair.”

Because despite the gender norms dictating quite beautiful wives of the time, Bathsheba is headstrong, she's rash, and she is free-spirited.

And she's said to have, quote, passions that have never been properly restrained.

Same end to quote, right? Yeah. Meanwhile, Joshua, her husband, is described in old records as, quote, "frequently drunk." There you go. Right?

He's also unfaithful to his wife. He is suspected of being physically abusive to his wife. And one of the few surviving direct quotes we have from either Spooner is one where Bathsheba describes her feelings about her husband with just two words utter aversion. So she just had same after always drunk.

Like out of it, so do it again. Go again. And he is described in old records as, quote, "frequently drunk." Same. Oh, my God.

By 1777. Thank you. Thank you for indulging me. Yeah, it's fun. Yet the couple has, as were the practices of the times, the couple has four children together.

Sure. But only three of those children survived to adulthood. And years later, one of the adult Spooner sons will be heard calling his father quote, "old bogus." Ooh. Yeah.

Just like such an insult back then. Such an 18th century dig that historians say suggests his children did not respect him very much. So by 1777, it's been more than a decade into this miserable marriage and the relationship

They did test each other, but on top of that Bashiba is struggling terribly personally.

“She's isolated because she has to hide at home because her father is such a pariah.”

But then hiding at home, she's there with this miserable marriage, no support, you know. So many kids. So many kids. So in March of that year, a stranger is passing by the front of the Spooner home. And it's a continental soldier who's just completed a year of service in George Washington's

Army. This is house in a max start.

This is the first cinema kick in those saxophones from the Revolutionary Corps.

Do you have pictures? Was he hot? We don't have pictures of the Continental Soldier. I'm about to tell you about. Let's picture who Jacob Alordi.

Let me give you a little more information. Okay. And then we're going to cast him. Because his name is Ezra Ross and he's 16 years old. Okay.

Every one. So. How old is she? She's just a grown. She's 32.

Okay.

“Um, it is a legal and not sure a colonial law.”

So as we go, you can maybe think about who could be cast as a 16 year old. What do you know? She's a cinema. I feel like he would be. He's castin' everything.

Yes. He looks like a teenager. Very true. But like, how old are your nephews? Who's old?

Micah 16. Yeah. Okay. Oh, gross. Oh, gross.

Yeah. The reality of a 16 year old? No. As opposed to a shallow man. Right.

So it's so funny. Okay. Like between military duties, walkin' by he was in a New Jersey Army Uncampment. And he has to walk home to Ipswich, Massachusetts, which is essentially a 300 mile walk round trip.

Bro, hitchhiking wasn't invented yet. Because the carts, right. It's too slow. Right. They're just knock you off.

Also it's the winter. Okay. So it's worst case scenario for this young soldier. And to complicated even more, he's dealing with the lingering effects of what was probably the flu that he caught at camp.

So he's on a long winter walk, kind of getting over a bad flu. It's unclear whether he approached the Spooner House at a desperation or whether somebody in the Spooner House saw him passing and realized he needed help. Either way, the Spooner's welcome Ezra into their home. The sick young man has put to bed, Bathsheba begins to nurse him back to health, feeding

him and tending to him. And what site is he on? He's not on the British side. He's the American side. Yeah.

So it's forbidden for her too because her dad is super in the British. Yeah. You know, she's like not 16. Fuck man. It's just keeps getting ruined.

It's so ruined. But it also, it's like, it's a 16 year old who's being asked to live like a man. Right. So that might help with a little more that he is actually taking on the horrors and responsibilities of being in the army and fighting a war on the heewer 20.

But he does have the llama curl at the front of his hair. And the way all the 16 year olds do these days. Okay. I got to go. Oh, sorry.

I didn't know. Really pop that. So loud. Okay. Taking in soldiers who are walking long distances after military stance is not uncommon

in revolutionary war times.

What sets this encounter apart is that the time it takes for Ezra, I almost said Timothy Shalame. The time it takes for Ezra to recover. We don't know exactly how long it is. We can assume it was at least a couple of weeks because he has to fully recover whatever.

But in that time, 31 year old Basheba Spooner and this adolescent soldier develop what a tasteful person would call a uniquely strong bond. But what we can all maybe in our bravo mind assume was fucking.

“So the age difference, we don't want to be calling things affairs like that, right?”

And also just let's not spend the time getting into all that discussion. Yeah. Here's what we know. It's unclear if they start by having a physical affair, they have definitely started an emotional affair though.

And it's a secret which makes it even hotter. No one has any idea it's going on, especially Joshua Spooner, who is actually developed his own friendship with Ezra. So as we're playing both sides, that's right. And getting some soup while he's on his long journey home, doing what he's got to do.

But at some point, Ezra's health improves enough so that the Spooner send him back on

the road to Ipswich, but he never forgets Basheba within a month, 31 year old woman.

Some hot milk that's like, let me take care. He's like, I'll be seeing you within weeks, I'm sorry, within months. He's called back to military service. But then when he gets leave, he comes and visits the Spooners in Brookfield. So it's a little less than a year later now, January 1778.

And Basheba has news for Ezra on his next visit. He comes to see the Spooners and she pulls him aside and is like, I'm pregnant. Oh, shit.

She yanks him into the pantry and then has to push him back out because they have to act normal.

“So it's assumed by historians that given her, like, on the record or a version with her”

husband, that they weren't probably having sex and that probably Ezra is the father of this baby. Basheba is definitely panicked and writer Debranavas puts it this way, quote, "Divourses

were all but impossible for women in revolutionary America and adulteruses were stripped

to the waist and publicly whipped Jesus." So she is truly panicking. Yeah. During one of Ezra's visits, Basheba asks him to poison her husband with aquafortus or also known as nitric acid.

It's an extremely corrosive acid used to dissolve tough materials like metal and unlike other poisons from these old stories like arsenic, aquafortus has an incredibly strong and very terrible taste. So it's a bad idea he used to begin with, but Ezra is just a sophomore and love with having sex with an old lady.

So he does it. He's like, "Sounds good to me." He poisons Joshua's drink. So problem is when Joshua takes a sip of that drink, it's literally like who put gasoline in my tea.

He immediately tastes the poison, spits out the mouthful, dumps the drink.

So then basically for the rest of Ezra's stay, he keeps trying to poison Joshua and

can't get it done. Oh, folly. I mean, right? The hilarious back and forth of all the things Ezra has to spit out and be like, "I, this taste is driving me crazy. So basically, by the end, Ezra gets cold feet about this whole scheme.

His visit ends without a poisoning taking place, and he leaves Bathsheba to carry out that plan for herself." If you're service-latsong, trust the text with the train that's us, 270 hours with zero complaining, they train under the hood, they train down in the pit, 270 hours means they're training as legit.

It's the smart choice for smart folk and care for their steed, some trust the instant oil changed that starts with valve oil. I'm Jake Brennan, and on the disgraced land podcast, I explore the wild lives of rock stars and unbelievable true crime stories from music history. These are the stories you haven't heard, the kind you'll end up telling someone else.

Like the time Paul McCartney spent in one of the world's most notorious prisons. Imagine that, you're Paul McCartney, it's 1980, you're an ex-beatel, and you're doing time in one of Japan's worst prisons right there alongside Yakuza gangsters and for a ridiculous church. Or the bizarre crime Lady Gaga is accused of.

Who is the artist, Lady Gaga, as being accused of doing the unthinkable too, after allegedly stealing her music and style to become famous?

“And what about that time, blondie's Debbie Harry, escaped a serial killer?”

The man who had given her that ride she barely escaped from was Ted Bundy. Listen to the disgraced land on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. The trail weekly is back, with brand new stories, from threatening text messages disturbing a small Midwestern town, it was from an unknown number.

Who else is getting these messages? Why did it start with us to long cons and stolen identities? Who lies about being this sick? This was the last time I ever believed the word she said. New voices, each would encourage to tell their own story.

He said I have been kidnapped. Okay, just trying to know more. He was essentially on the run. Every family has secrets. The rug had been pulled from underneath me.

Oh my god, it was right in front of my face and I didn't even see it. Listen to the trail weekly on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Your husband is not who you think he is. Your body is not what you saw it was.

“Your identity is formed by a secret history.”

I'm Danny Shapiro, and these are just a few of the stunning stories I'll be exploring the 14th season of family secrets. Just then we felt the plane turned in the air. So much so that the bags are under people's seats just kind of flew into the aisle. Each week, we don't have headfirst into the complex power of secrecy.

How it shapes our identities and relationships, and how it ultimately can reveal to us

My daughter, she's pretending she doesn't know but is trying to cook and feed me and keep

“me alive because I wasn't eating anything and me pretending like everything was fine.”

He kind of showed me out of the way and said move and he went help the front door and he jumped in a car and drove off and that was the last time I saw him. Listen to season 14, a family secret. On the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So a few weeks later, February 1778, Joshua is a way on a business trip, Bashiba spots

two British soldiers passing by the front of the house. They are private William Brooks, who's in his late 20s, and Sergeant James Buchanan, who is in his mid-30s. Okay. So we're age appropriate now.

Now, yes, we're getting into some adults involving adults.

Bashiba sends out one of her workers basically to intercept them and offer them a place to sleep

and food to eat. And they're very grateful to come inside. And when they do, Bashiba learns their British deserters who are trying to get home by way of Canada. Wow.

So basically they're just trying to escape America alive to get home.

“So sensing her opportunity, Bashiba offers them clothing and cash if they kill her husband”

when he comes back from his business trip. Some sources say she offers them a thousand dollars, which in today's money from 1778 to 2026, 12,000, 25,000, it's a lot of money. So they accept. And when they do Bashiba writes to Ezra, hey, when you graduate from high school, come back

here because the plan is a foot. Okay. So by the time Joshua Spooner gets back from his business trip to Brookfield, these British soldiers have been staying in their house in the Spooner house for more than a week, sleeping in nice beds, eating great food whenever they want, running up an enormous tab at

the local tavern under Joshua Spooner's name, the whole nine. Joshua finds this out. He's I rate at his wife for letting these British soldiers into their home. He kicks them out. But William and James don't go anywhere.

They just hang around town, Lercan, Langlow waiting for the opportunity to strike. And then on February 28, Ezra Ross quietly arrives back in Brookfield and joins up with the two British soldiers. This and now we're back to the day this all started, which is the cold dark night of March 1st and 37-year-old Joshua Spooner, just arriving from home from the tavern around nine

a clock that night. He goes on to his property. He approaches the back entrance and that's where Ezra William and James appear out of the darkness and ambush him. They beat him and they strangle him to death.

Then they carry his body over to the well and they throw him down into it head first. And the idea is that because Joshua has a reputation for heavy drinking, people think he accidentally stumbled and fell into the well. I'm sorry. Look at your marks from a fall.

It just all of it in our forensic files know how these days.

It's like you roobs from the revolutionary war.

You don't know how to murder. But also I love the idea of like the odds of a drunk person stumbling and falling into

“a whole smaller than Ray, really their own shoulder, right?”

Probably. Oh, whoa, whoa. Or the same side. Don't go through the hole. You're falling.

Okay. So before they do drop Joshua's body into the well, they take his fancy watch, his ring, his silver shoe buckles, which have his initials engraved on them and like basically keep it for themselves, then when they're done they go into the house where Bashiba, Spooner, is waiting.

James Buchanan will later testify that she seemed, quote, utterly confused, which could imply a state of shock or some historians have wondered the throws in an undiagnosed mental

health crisis that's basically kind of like at its apex with this horrible event.

She gives them an a thick stack of cash as well as a few pieces of clothing. That's so confused that she doesn't pay them off for killing her husband. But she's not. What? Tadatonic.

Exactly. She's like, I can't deal with this. Nine. Ten. That's it for you.

And she also gives them clothes from Joshua's closet. So she's again on the cover up. So confusing. You can take his vest and his boots at around 11 o'clock, Ezra William and James, all wearing Joshua's clothes, writing his horses or the Spooner's horses, skip town, had 20 miles

out toward, of course, the star of this show, Worcester. They arrive at an in-around 4 a.m. Of course, the innkeepers immediately sent something's off. Yeah, don't go at 4 a.m. We tell nine in the morning.

Middles and night with big silver bowls on your fucking shoes. And like clothes that don't fit you correctly. What? Yeah. Like streaks of mud on your cheeks.

And, of course, acting very, very strangely, I was going to say, paying in cash, but they didn't have any other way to pay back then. Back then, there's no cards, no gift cards. No, no, no, no, no. Tying in dirty, dirty cash.

Yeah. Like that's gold. Do they pay in gold?

“Yeah, but I think that would count as cash.”

I wouldn't stand out as much. So writer Debra Navas suggests that all of these actors in this murder are dealing with their guilt and their regret and then it's just coming out in their own way. So Ezra is despondent. He refuses to give the innkeepers his name.

He immediately isolates himself in a bedroom. He's tortured just to the funny smile rolled to me, like she hates Ezra so much. I'm so sorry. Yeah. So, of course he does.

Like, he fucking did the crime. Yep. And now, like, it doesn't matter how horrible you feel afterwards. Yes, you got all high on, like, being in the murder group. Right.

And then, like, they could have probably done it without you, bro. You wanted to prove your 16 year old ass to your fucking 31 year old lover. Yes. He had a hot milk lover. Yeah.

He was willing to go the distance.

“And now he's despondent and listen, we're just telling you that's how it always goes.”

Yeah. Whether it's murder or just taking people to weddings. Yeah. It's on your permanent record. That nerd and use spending time with them.

He's in the photos. Your family talks about it. Okay. William and James on the other hand immediately go to the ends tavern by alcohol and just start drinking their way into the early daylight hours.

That's the way to deal with your regret, except for the adult, except for they wear the silver shoe buckles in the jewelry and the clothing, so they couldn't be drawing more attention to themselves as they're trying to have a nice escape from reality drink.

So the average person in the colonies would just never have the wealth to afford silver

shoe buckles with their own engraved initials on them or whatever, especially not a pair of British deserters, which I'm sure is kind of pretty obvious right away. So by the afternoon, the men have raised so much suspicion, the authorities are notified. Meanwhile, back in Brookfield, there's already a swirl of suspicion around Bathsheba because she, of course, the very next day had morning visitors because she's a lady of the, you

know, of the elite. And when they show up and ask where Joshua is, she just burst into tears. So they're just kind of like, are you okay? And they start looking for him and they find his body in the well. Right.

Ladies who were just there for some nice tea and tiny sandwiches and suddenly they're like, we just found your husband dead. Oh my God, they're like, is Mercury in retrograde or what? So having a bad day. So Joshua's body is pulled from the well, Dr. Jonathan King, his friend who was walking

home with him the night before, and a tavern, he shows up to examine the corpse and he notes the signs of strangulation and injuries consistent with being beaten. He testifies later that Joshua hadn't seemed all that drunk when they left the tavern

and walked home together, pretty crucial element in the story.

And that's, of course, in direct contrast to the idea that Joshua was so drunk that he walked in big circles and fell down well, almost impossible.

“Unless he sat down and that's what he's singing and maybe fell backwards.”

But you're just kind of folds like that and then starts screaming. Yeah. I don't know. So lesson 24 hours after Joshua Spunner's murder, his wife, Bashiba, the young soldier Ezra Ross, private William Brooks and Sergeant James Buchanan have all been arrested as suspects

in his murder. The joint trial begins, so now you're on trial with two strangers and your teenage lover. God, yeah, that's quick. That begins late April 1778, it becomes, of course, a huge sensation.

First of all, it's the wealth that's disgandled the violence at play, but it truly is one of the first times, like, in the official newborn, true-year-old America, there has been a murder trial. The prosecution is led by a man named Robert Treat Pain. He's one of the signies of the Declaration of Independence.

I knew that. Maybe you've heard of it. Ask your friend Nicholas Cage, if you know now. And then the defense is led by a man named Levi Lincoln, no relation. But he would later serve as president Thomas Jefferson's attorney general.

So, it's not only one of the first capital murder cases tried in the United States, but

because Levi Lincoln will attempt to paint Bashiba Spunner as mentally unwell at the time of the murder, it's also believed to be one of the first times the insanity defense is used. Yeah, interesting. Given the patriotic backdrop of Massachusetts at the time, the involvement of two British

soldiers and the infamy of Bashiba's loyalist father makes this trial inherently political, and, of course, everybody has big opinions about it. Levi Lincoln urges the jurors to look past their, quote, "political feelings," but the evidence is overwhelming. The trial quickly ends and for guilty verdicts are turned in.

All of them are sentenced to death and they're scheduled to hang on June 4th, 1778. And this is when Bashiba begs the court to delay her execution, to spare the life on

Right. Yes. The gallery gasps. That's not true. I put that in.

“I don't know when she told them or how, could have been in a letter.”

I bet there was a gas somewhere. I bet someone gas, even if it was just someone somewhere, the secretary of the person that opened that letter. Right. Common law protects feeduses if there have been signs of what they used to call the quickening,

which is basically when the mother can feel the baby.

It happens usually between the fourth and fifth month of pregnancy. So if she really did get pregnant sometime in January, which is when she told Ezra that she was pregnant, this would put her in the correct timeframe. And there are theories that Bashiba is lying about being pregnant just to buy herself time.

But either way, it works. The execution date gets pushed to July 2nd, and then in the interim, she is examined. And she's examined many times to determine whether she's pregnant by a panel of midwives that the court puts together. Wow.

It is as bad as you are anticipating, humiliating, also needlessly painful. It's as gross as you can think of it to be, and it's described by one contemporary is quote indecent and cruel. In the end, the panel concludes that she is not pregnant, but Bashiba appeals and she hires her own midwife to conduct her own exam, and then that midwife concludes she is

pregnant.

“So the court sides with their own panel surprisingly?”

No, it's been like this all along.

And they reject Bashiba's pregnancy claims so on July 2nd, 1788. 17 year old Ezra Ross, 27 year old William Brooks, 36 year old James Vcannon, and 32 year old Bashiba, Ruggles Spuner, are brought to the gallows. Bashiba demands that they perform an autopsy on her body after she is hanged to prove the existence of her unborn child, which is like, I'll be looking down at all of you as you

martyr me. Wow. Okay. So outside of that discussion, which I imagined to happen in a dark internal, but probably didn't.

Five thousand people have gathered to watch this hanging. Guys, yeah, a small town has gathered. Which is funny because that, what was that at the beginning? Was that widow's bay at the beginning when all the people are there and they're cheering for the hanging?

Or was that just another movie I was watching? Wuthering Heights? Thank you. What was Wuthering Heights? Molly has dialed in.

You know, she knows. She knows. Well, because we've been talking about Wuthering Heights and I'm mistakenly thought that Molly like loved it. Yeah, so then we watch it to be like other people hate it, but Molly seems to love

it. Let's check it out. And then we were like, oh, this is good. We like it. Yeah.

I really liked it. People love their books. They really do. The children love the books. Okay.

So outside five thousand people gather to watch this hanging. The man who signs the execution warrant is John Avery Jr. who was Joshua Stepbrother, testimony from the execution describes the onset of, quote, one of the most terrified thunderstorms that occurred within the memory of anyone living. And quote.

And they say that that storm, quote, came up and darken the heavens, conspiring to produce a scene of most dreadful horror. So as they're walking to the gallows, black cloud rolls in. Yeah, my God. God has pissed.

Shortly after the executions in autopsy is performed on Bashibe's body and the physician finds a, quote, perfect male fetus of the growth of five months, completely correct. That's the panel light. The panel light. The panel light.

Oh, the clouds told you, but you wouldn't listen. Okay. When word gets out that Massachusetts has just executed a pregnant woman, the public is horror. Wow.

And over time, this is a plot twist I did not see coming. Right? Yeah. Because you're kind of like, oh, she's bad. This is the crime.

They killed him. And here's the execution. It's like, oh, but wait. Oh, but hold on, let's get in. So the real controversy, most associated with this case, over like history, because in

the beginning, of course, it was the usual moralizing about the risks of adultery and evil women having their way and being free spirited and loud and all the things that are so terrible.

“I think about sexually abusing a child, but don't worry.”

Yeah, that is very seen. The risks of adultery and evil women using dumb men. But it's actually lived on as a cautionary tale about how the biases around politics and gender seep into the justice system. Bashiva herself has increasingly been treated with more and more empathy as the years pass

and sympathy, I should say. But no one doubts she wanted her husband dead or that she conspired to kill him, but contemporary historians, mull over the extreme circumstances of her life that led up to the crime, her marriage was stifling and it likely involved a mistake abuse. The double standard in how women who commit adultery are treated versus the men who commit

adultery, not to mention Bashiva's grief around being basically cut off from her father,

into her life, people judging her and her being socially isolated because of all that. In the end, the spooners children end up being adopted by relatives and it seems they most likely escape all the notoriety that is around this case. A few years after his daughter's execution, Bashiva's father, Timothy Ruggles, dies in exile in Canada in his early 80s.

And the well that they put Joshua Spooner's body into is actually still standing in Brookfield Massachusetts, according to the Brookfield Historical Commission, although they say it's obscured by thick poison ivy, much of the year, aka, stay the fuck away from them well.

And that is the story of the first murder in America, the murder of Joshua Spooner.

Wow. That's crazy. That's heavy. Good job. Thank you.

That's a great one for the Fourth of July. Right? It's coming up. Do your homework, everybody. They don't tell you this shit.

It's cool.

If you're service, let's all trust the text with the train that's us, 270 hours with zero

complaining, they train under the hood, they train down in the pit, 270 hours means they're trainings legit. It's the smart choice for smart folk and care for their steed, so trust the instant oil change that starts without the lean instant oil change wisely. I'm Jake Brennan, and on my podcast, Desk Raceland, I tell the stories behind music's biggest

names, the moments, rumors, and real life events that help shape their legacy. Like the story behind Sonic Youth, that starts with downtown New York cool and ends with album art inspired by a true crime. Sonic Youth was not fronted by a groupie hustling alpha like David Ross. No, Sonic Youth's thirst and more was an artist in love with a fellow artist, who just

happened to play bass in the same band with him and his other artist friends. Her name was Kim Gordon, and thirst and in Kim were every bit as cool as the couple on the cover of Goot. The same couple involved in one of the UK's darkest true crimes. This Graceland is part of the exactly right network, listen to new episodes every Tuesday,

bonus episodes Thursday and rewinds on Sunday on the iHeart Radio app Apple Podcasts wherever you get your podcasts. Betrayal Weekly is back with brand new stories, from threatening text messages disturbing

“a small Midwestern town, it was from an unknown number, who else is getting these messages?”

Why did it start with us? The long cons and stolen identities. Who lies about being this sick? This was the last time I ever believed the word she said. New voices, each with the courage to tell their own story.

He said I have been kidnapped. Okay, just trying not to know more. He was essentially on the run. Every family has secrets. The rug had been pulled from underneath me.

Oh my God, it was right in front of my face and I didn't even see it. Listen to betrayal weekly on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Your husband is not who you think he is. Your body is not what you saw it was.

“Your identity is formed by a secret history.”

I'm Danny Shapiro and these are just a few of the stunning stories I'll be exploring. The 14th season of Family Secrets, and just then we felt the plain turn in the air. So much so that the bags are under people's seats just kind of flew into the aisle. Each week, we don't have headfirst into the complex power of secrecy.

How it shapes our identities and relationships, and how it ultimately can reveal to us

our trueest selves. My daughter, she's pretending she doesn't know but is trying to cook and feed me and keep me alive because I wasn't eating anything and me pretending like everything was fine. He kind of showed me out of the way and said move and he went help the front door and he jumped in a car and drove off and that was the last time I saw him.

Listen to season 14 of Family Secrets, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Mine is, but they had a hundred years later, not only. Okay.

“I think right after the Civil War, it went to the Civil War and it's I might be lying.”

18, 50, 3, 6, 18, 65, we were both right. So should we get our high school diplomas again now in the show?

We're going to fucking fail.

Are you kidding me?

“Humiliating. It's a fan called video of us trying to pass the G.D. get our G.D. no.”

Rather talk about my modeling photos. Oh my god, the people love the fucking modeling photos. We have to talk about that. People are going crazy for that entire thing. They've really met you at that vulnerability that you revealed for them.

It's really nice. That's nice. So here we go. We're getting into the countries 250 at Anniversary because you know right now. Definitely.

Now we're going to go back to the Centennial which is 1876 and we're going to be in Kentucky. Great. Today's story is an unexplained phenomenon that's straight out of an episode of bananas. Weird news. Great.

And this one is in the genre of weird stuff falling from the sky. Like when I covered the Oakville Blobs in episode 429, we're unidentified goof out of the sky in the 80s in Washington state. And today in our story, there's a bit more progress made in identifying the stuff that actually felt from the sky.

So good. That's big of a mystery.

This is the story of the Kentucky meat shower.

Oh, I've heard of this. Oh, no. Yeah. Meat shower. Meat shower.

Let's meditate on meat shower.

“You're just out in a Kentucky field roaming through hip high grass and love in life and”

then splat boom right on your face. There's a primer. The main source of the story are articles from Scientific America and Atlas Obscura and the rest of the sources can be found in our show notes and cooks illustrated and cloudy with the chance of meatballs.

So it's March 3rd, 1876 and we're in Olympian Springs, Kentucky. It's a small rural community in Bath County about 50 miles east of Lexington, Kentucky. Great. And Rebecca Crouch is in the front yard of her family farm making soap as you had to do back then, mixing some lie with some talo.

That's right. Which is a time and labor intensive chore done by boiling rendered animal fat on an open fire and combining it with lie. How do you think I used to spend my summers? That's right.

You're a farm girl. Country girl. Have you read the book? Yes, three year? Yeah.

No. That's great. You should read it. Okay. But there's a soap making scene in it.

That's sexy. No. Forget it. Very not sexy.

“It's about a tradwife blogger who gets taken back into the time when she would have”

to actually work as a trad, like had to do the things like make soap, like a make bread fresh instead. And like that's genius. So good. Yes, three year.

It's getting man into a movie. It's like that's hilarious. Okay. So as Mrs. Crouch is working, she begins to see what she'll later describe as a substance that looks a bit like snowflakes falling out of the sky, but snowflakes is fine.

It's so fun. That's no big deal. But it's sunny and warm out. There's no snowflakes. This isn't snowflakes.

It's a cloudless day. And some of the flakes are very big. She describes them as being quote as long as my hand and about half an inch wide. So as long as my hand, the big ones in like half an inch wide. Okay.

It took a big pieces of... Sorry. It's me. It's faking me. It's me.

Me, flakes. Me, flakes. Oh, there's a really great drawing of the whole thing if you just don't have the imagination for it. Great.

I love this so much. Let's take a look. The artist is James Faustyk, brilliant. And it's just a James. Sausage.

You sure can draw a gristle. Yeah. I don't like the look of those meat clumps that are falling on her. It looks like a children's book. Yeah.

So if you're watching on Netflix, you can see this. If you're not, you should be. So as everything gathers on her yard, and she inspects some further, Mrs. Crouch realizes that they look not unlike the stuff she's making herself out of animal flesh. Like meats or bits of fatty connective tissue.

She said, quote, "It looked gristly as if it had been torn from the throat of some animal." Good. Lord. The Crouch family cat and dog are fucking stoked. They come running and they start going to town.

Oh no. Do we know the names of those pets? No, well, let's name them now for the specific. Snowflake? Snowflake and...

And... And... And... Crystal. Oh, my...

I'd a friend who's dog was named herself. That's a great name for a dog that I just made up. Or was it in like a movie? Probably both. Okay.

So they're losing their minds, you know all of this. The family hogs and chickens get in on the action too and eat a lot of what was fallen. And cannibalized themselves? Well, we don't know exactly what the animal is. Okay.

It's human-made to write. Oh, it's not cannibalism. It's human.

The chickens are like finally we get our say.

I've been feeding the crows for each ride chicken hearts. Oh, it feels bad. But...

They're going to take over.

“They're going to take the keys to your home.”

Fine. I can. Okay. A few days later, just by the buy, the dog does get a bit sick. But we don't know if it's connected and it doesn't seem like any of the other animals

do either. So... Right. Because the dog ran over and bit like ate some gristle and then they ran over their to eat a big cow pie.

Exactly. So, in all, about 200 pounds of this meat-like substance falls for about a minute. A grown man's worth. So true. Oh, the sound.

The little sloth. And just one lady trying to make some soap. What the fuck? She seems like this event is pretty much limited to the area around Mrs. Crouch's house. And she says that the meat smells fresh when it had just fallen.

But throughout the day, it starts to go off. And by the next day, the little flakes are all dried out. So it does what meat does. The event attracts national media attention. And several samples are saved.

One is sent to Louisville for analysis. Well, another is sent to Washington, DC. Also a correspondent for the New York Carol goes to visit the Crouch farm. This reporter goes all around town and you're viewing people about the phenomenon

on asking if Mrs. Crouch is full of shit, basically.

Yeah, she's full of shit. Yeah.

“But no, everyone is like, this is not a woman who, like, she's making soap.”

She doesn't have a lot of time for joking around and, like, pranks. She handles live with no gloves. She's a fucking farmer. Like, she's not making shit up. Yeah, do not even.

And while there is some investigation going on in the article, it does seem like a lot of it, it's just a reporter making fun of the members of this very rural community. He's kind of a dick. Yeah, about it. It's probably pissed that he got sent all the way out there.

So what he's saying, like, people are kind of dumb or black. Yeah. Or he's making stuff up because some of the conversations in the article are just don't even, like, conversations people have. But yeah, you know, it was the 1870s.

So what do I know? Fill it up. Fill up that article, Rusty. Exactly. We need 2,000 words.

So he bargains with a railroad laborer named Jimmy Welsh to eat $1 worth of the meat. No. Like, just so we can get some fucking color for his article. So he's saying, if you eat this lump of gristle, I will pay you a dollar. That fell how many days ago.

And also, sorry, but can we do a dollar? What is a dollar worth back then? Oh, shit. $1. $1876 $1.

$1. I'm gonna go ahead. I'm gonna go ahead.

I'm gonna go first and then Molly will.

Okay, I'm still. I'm gonna guess too. I can guess too. You can too. We're all in this now.

I'm gonna say $31. Okay. I'm gonna say $50. Karen is just AI overview, but it says $31. No.

Yeah. I have to add a secret. That looks like I set this whole thing up because I demanded it. No. Come on.

I don't believe that. That's a dead-on one. I think once. And this is yours. Mmm.

Congratulations. Drop the streamers. Drop the streamers. We've been hiding. Well, I guess I've tried so hard for so long to guess the numbers.

I'm really bad at it. I couldn't have done it with that Elvis. His neckless. Molly's like, "Could you please do your job?" No, I love it.

That was cute. This is your job. This is my job. This is your job. Good job getting the job.

Thank you. Oh my God, thank you. Right in the job. I applied. And then I called back two weeks later and I said, "Hey, I am a bad interview, but I know

I can do this." Okay, so we're in the moment when he's given $31 for this poor guy named Jimmy to eat this meat. Which is probably a lot of money. He's a railroad laborer, that's a lot of money.

At this point, it's been about a week after the meat for a stop from the sky. This Jimmy's got to tell me, Inc. Well, journalist writes, quote, "The article was ordered and placed before him. The meat." He hesitated and said, "He was not hungry.

I then told him I would give him $3 to go up at down." 90. Then 93. Right? He then suddenly remembered that it was the season of lent and backed out on moral principles.

So, Jimmy, Jimmy, check it out. Jimmy, check it out. We don't really know. You know what he did?

“He dumped his way in to a thing that, why were you ever sitting at that table?”

Right. It's disgusting and risky. Don't do it. Trinking. The way alcohol was involved.

Just met some guy to bar. Yeah. So, the meat is sent to several different agencies for testing, in Kentucky, and also out of state. There's a man named Leopold Brandeis, whose qualifications are unclear.

Same. He has his own college. Does that count? Does he? Brandeis?

He analyzes a sample that's been preserved in glycerin, and he publishes his findings in the scientific American, because, like, as anyone could throw anything in there now. Same. He believes the substance is something called nostick. Have you heard of nostick?

Only in the Bible. Or nostick. GNO. N-O-S-T-O-C. Not never heard of that.

Basically, it's a bacteria that swells up into a jelly-like substance when it rains.

I went to Wikipedia and I said, that quote, "The word itself is a combination of the English nostril and German nason law," which means, "nosehole or nostril," because basically

That's disgusting. Yeah.

“And when it lands on the ground, I have a photo of it.”

Great. Here we go. Oh.

It just looks like seaweed.

It's like kelp. It just looks like kelp. It looks like kelp. Oh, I have a photo of Mrs. Crouch too. Oh, perfect.

We're all guessing she's 50, but that's in today's money. She's probably 27. Great. I know. Also, Ms. Crouch took a photo of smartly with a parasol.

Parishal and her hand on her fucking hip. She's doing it. Yeah. She's making it happen. Yeah.

Come out, me. She says. This is Crouch. Now, she has to use an umbrella because there's fucking nostick falling all over the planet.

I bet that was the journalist idea. That's so true. Okay. But the problem with this theory is that, of course, the weather was fine and clear. So it's not that.

Other testers believe that the meat is lung tissue either from a horse or a human infant,

which is fucking insane and never, which is moves on from that statement.

Please, now. Like nobody's like, what? Well, because there was 200 pounds of it, right? And actually, when Mrs. Crouch first sees it falling, she had said she had, quote, a vague idea that my husband and son, who were away, had been torn to pieces and their remains were

being brought home to me in this way by the wind and quote. So she needed some zanx before this even fucking happened. Well, and after this civil war, so maybe she saw some stuff. Yeah. She was like, this reminds me of human good point tragedy.

Yeah. And then they probably still believe in God back then, so that like, the God works. That guy works in mysterious ways. Absolutely. Like throwing meat through the weather as a punishment.

“So to church Mrs. Crouch, that's very weird though, because I think that idea of looking”

at something completely foreign and immediately attributing it to a certain place is meaningful. Yeah. And also that like, you're being punished in some way for something. Yeah.

That's like, we understand how that works.

But multiple testers believe that meat might be human, and this is so dumb, people think that two or more men may have killed each other somewhere in a nearby knife fight and then the wind picked up all the remains in tornado drive, and it's just like, yes, do it. They slashed each other to ribbons and then without bones, they become those car.

Those car dealership. You can set one of those car dealership guys that dances around to any song and I will laugh my ass off. That's so funny. Really good.

Okay. So a humor writer back then, William Livingston Elden writes in the New York Times that the meat might have come from space and maybe exploded animal matter from another planet. Let's stop talking about dumb theories. Let's not ask any old force greater what they think.

Here's a dumb theory that is probably true. Okay. The theory that most locals arrive at and that most people still believe to this day is that the meat had been eaten by cultures, so we're far off, partially digested, and then when cultures get scared, they vomit their confidence that they're stomach out.

Okay. The cultures maybe had eaten something they were in flight, something startled them, and they barfed all their meat onto this one spot. Yes. That's to me, that's the only solution that isn't paranormal, that makes sense.

It makes perfect sense, man and produced the idea that they got scared by a tear-dactal left over dinosaur. You know what? If they got scared by a UFO, then we're back. If they got scared by the lug nests monster, we're now on the basis of this story.

Actually, you're right. That might be the reason, but we don't know why and what scare them, and it's probably sci-fi. It feels good though that there's something normal that you can tell me that possibly could happen, because the agitation I feel not being able to think of even how possibly

this could happen. Because your brain goes to airplane and then your brain is like, that's stupid. It's 1876. Yep. And then you start going, but I saw a show on Netflix where they actually write those things

over.

“The enduring mystery, though, is that Mrs. Crouch was standing right in her yard?”

She didn't see any of these all-chairs, but who knows, or might, could have flown that way. She might not have seen them. They were very high. Who knows?

Um, what? I just, I would love to keep that list going. She had bad vision. She was a liar, so blinded her. She had eaten some fucking magic mushrooms from her father.

Her whole thing was fake. So here's the fun part. In the early 2000s, there's an art professor named Kurt Gold, who takes a job at Kentucky's oldest university, Kentucky University of Ancient history. So close.

Transylvania, your university of Lexington, Kentucky, in Lexington, Kentucky, no, there is not a vampire college. There's Lexington, and he's an art professor there. And right around that time that he starts this job, he reads a book about strange weather for an oven on in this throat, this guy's like an adorable weirdo.

Great. He's like an art teacher, but seems like the kind of high school science teacher that makes you interested in science, and you become a scientist, and you're like the only reason that's because Mr. Gold told me that I could be anything, and so I did it, and that women

He's kind of like, if Vince had an older brother who was a professor, he kind of looks

like him. Actually, I have a photo of him. Oh. He's kind of got a hot Zaddy vibe. Oh.

Hell yes. I love him.

“He reads a book about this thing happening, and he's shocked, he learned that like”

nobody from there knows about the meat showers, and he's like this is exciting, and he kind of becomes an obsession of his. Just by luck a few years later, in 2004, he is cleaning out a storage university at Transylvania University, when he happens upon a small, clear, very old vial filled with yellowy liquid in the liquid is suspended a white hunk of something, and the faded label reads

Olympia Springs, Kurt has found at this fucking college that he started teaching at the last known sample of the meat, and he's overjoyed I the photo of it, and I have one for you right here. Oh my god. I'll try it.

I actually think behind you kind of looks like it for $31, give a little bit of that. Oh, that's so rough. Um, here's a photo of the vial with the like gross tendency looking. How much to drink that liquid? I guess for me right now in my life, it would have to be roughly

$3 million. Yes. Yeah. But how much would I have to drink? How about a sip?

Choo, chew that shit in the bottle and drink. Choo and spit out that shit in the bottle, I mean this all drink the liquid, pick one, drink the liquid. No, because in your yeah, the chewing is, is what's going to give you true trauma, because

“you're going to be like, yeah, remember any time you chew anything, and then like, infants”

and stuff. But also, when you just die, you also don't have to do either of those things. And now I want to look, I am not even drinking. Okay, he's so excited, because he's snurred and he, so he works with a professor in the biology department to try to test the sample, but it's too degraded and they can't find a

conclusive finding it's 2004, so it's like the dark ages. But current is an artist. He's more interested in the multi-sensory experience of the phenomenon drinking and eating it, rather than continuing to pursue clear cut answers. So he sends the vial to a lab in Cincinnati that analyzing flavor compounds.

Oh, okay. And then he uses that flavor information to make jelly beans that essentially tastes like whatever it was to have people help him figure out what the me was. I feel like that's a very art teacher solution. That's exactly what it is.

I feel like if I was involved with that, it would be on par with the first time I had

a popcorn jelly belly, I've ever eaten that flavor, the butter, yeah, buttered popcorn. Like the weird jelly belly flavors that came out in the like 90s, the kids today don't know. Like that wasn't a thing for it was just like fruit flavor jelly beans got ice out and so old. But really, really, the jelly belly came out with these like crazy flavors, we were,

our minds were blown. Yes. And then he like mixed the coconut with the popcorn one and like, yeah, you're in third grade saying I just had tried a my time, but also there were some flavors that were so upsetting that like he's basically walking people into common Eden upsetting thing with

me. Yeah. Yes. Because I want to learn for science for learning say, so it's like a doorable. Okay.

Okay. So he actually passes them out. There's a big festival called Kentucky court days and in 2007, he passes them out. Responses are varied. Multiple people said the beans tasted like bacon.

Another person said it was like a strawberry pork chop. Oh, he's trying to do like everybody gets to have a vote to figure out what this is. Yeah. Like what kind of meat is this? I see.

Sorry. I was thinking he was doing it scientifically, but also through jelly beans. No. I'm just like, okay. I'm fine with the whole thing.

Love it.

But nobody wanted to try a second jelly bean to find out.

That's a bad thing. Yeah.

“And I think he still has some leftover to almost 20 years later.”

So fast forward to now and Kurt is still obsessed with the Kentucky meat shower. And in fact, just last this February that just happened in 2026, it was the 150th anniversary of the Kentucky meat shower. And he celebrates with a little festival in town, which includes, there's a meatball toss. Oh, there's hot dogs, of course, and a balloony throwing contest.

Like he's just having fun with his great. So this whole festival that he creates culminates in the second ever Kentucky meat shower. He has a small airplane. Oh. Drop 1876, which is the year it happened, individually wrapped pieces of beef jerky from

the sky. I love this man. There's a video of it. They look like snowflakes the way he wraps something up and he's, it's so, it's so, whimsical.

Yes. Right. And fun. Yeah. Yeah.

And each package has a number on it, and then the people who pick them up can go to his website, which is called fleshfalls.com and claim prizes based on those numbers, including a gift card to a local cafe. Nice. Like, get me out of LA is what I think that's what this is a plea for me.

And a necklace by a local artist, as well as a signed book by humorist author and journalist

“Dave Barry, who wrote about the event in his sub-stack and seemed to charm by it.”

So the specimen is now housed in Transylvania, used Monroe, Munsick, Medical and Science Museum. If you work at the Monroe Medical Music and Medical Science Museum, will you please reach out to us because we want to hear, are you real, is Transylvania real, is any of this real?

Can we have a private tour? And will you send us merch? And will you send us meetsticks? And will you send us merch? I don't want to.

Transylvania College, sweatshirt, please. Dave Barry writes about it that the museum, quote, houses many 19th-century scientific and medical artifacts, including a hairball 14 inches in diameter that was removed from a stomach of a cow, and a quote, tobacco smoke clicester, which is a device that doctors once used to try to revive drowning victims by blowing tobacco smoke up their butts.

No.

And then he writes, "I am not making any of this up."

That sounds like it's the mutermuseum or the mutter, I don't know, but like a medical history museum is a fascinating, for sure, especially a small one, specialized. And Dracula and Transylvania, I'm going to end on a quote from Dave Barry that he is defined a sense of humor as, quote, "A measurement of the extent to which we realize that we are

“trapped in a world almost totally devoid of reason, laughter is how we express the anxiety”

we feel at this knowledge." Yes, Dave. And that is the story of the Kentucky Meach Hour. Look. Oh, true crime murder, podcasts.

Oh, yes. Yes. In the fall of fascism, when the world around us has turned to living power, that's right, when we're getting imprisoned for taking out, we're not going there. I mean, Jesus.

But we are there. We don't have to go anywhere. We're fucking here. Yes.

We've been talking about it for a while, and in the meantime of all this bullshit, we're

to tell each other about delightful things, and horrible things, and things we feel we need to know. As of yesterday, we are no longer the only true crime podcast. So you're welcome to go this. Did that just happen?

Yeah. There's a couple more of popped up. Yeah, we had a great run. We've been the only ones. Yep.

Now we're going to be doing this weird shit. Yeah. So we buckle the fuck up. People are like, we are. We listen to the end of this episode.

What do you want us to do? Why are you mad at us? How much more do we have to listen to you? No. We love you guys.

If you listen to this point. You're a real one. And you're just fucking appreciate this shit at you. Here's a realist one. And we're all trying.

And you're doing great. Stay sexy. Get murdered. Goodbye. Elvis, do you want to clicky?

Ah. This has been an exactly right production. Our senior producer is Molly Smith. And our associate producer is Tessa Hughes. Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.

This episode was mixed by Leonis Quilacci. Our researchers are Mary McLashon and Ali Elkin. Email your hometowns to my favorite murder at gmail.com. And follow the show on Instagram at my favorite murder. Listen to my favorite murder on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

your podcast. And now you can watch my favorite murder on Netflix. And when you're there, hit the double thumbs up and the Remind Me buttons, that's the best way you can support our show. Goodbye.

I'm Jake Brennan. And on my podcast, disgraced land, I tell the stories behind music's biggest names. Like how the story of the food fighters isn't just about music. It's about grief, shock, and the moment everything changed. Imagine that.

You're in the biggest band on the planet, as Dave Grohl was in 1994 in Nirvana. And the phone rings, and you learn that you're singer, your friend, the reluctant voice of a generation, Kurt Colby, is dead. Listen to disgraceland on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Although it's me and a sinfield, the host of the girlfriends. I'm back with more one-off interviews with some truly kick ass women on the girlfriend's spotlight. I'm going to climb it. It's badness, hereditary.

Let's see how we can stop killing. I'm not too intimidated by her. What are you talking about? Listen to the girlfriend's spotlight on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

The trail weekly is back with brand new stories, from threatening text messages disturbing a small Midwestern town. It was from an unknown number. Who else is getting these messages?

“Why did it start with us to long cons and stolen identities?”

Who lies about being this sick?

Listen to the trail weekly on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

get your podcasts.

“If you live in LA, you already spend about 89% of your life in a car.”

So, we turned it into a podcast.

On do you need a ride?

“We pick up our comedian friends, driver-owned Los Angeles, and discuss what's happening”

in the world around us.

Cars are very rude to bicycleists, but in this case, it's a bicycleist going out of

his way to get in the way of traffic. All you did was roll your window down.

“It's like a talk show but going 30 miles an hour.”

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