Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 91: Live at the Sony Centre in Toronto

When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist.

They take matters into their own hands. I vowed. I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves.

“We always say that trust your girlfriends.”

Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. My heart rate you up. Apple podcasts. Or whatever you get your podcast.

This is one of the most dramatic events that really ever happened in New York City politics. A screen good down, good down, those are shots. A tragedy that's now forgotten and a mystery that may or may not have been political. That may have been about sex. Listen to Worshack.

Murder at City Hall.

On the I-Heart Radio app.

Apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts. Sometimes a suspect is found guilty before a verdict is ever read in court. On the WickedWords podcast. I talk with the writers who dig deep into the cases that changed history.

Including Marsha Clark, who went from prosecuting one of the most famous murder cases to writing crime fiction.

“It doesn't matter that you didn't take part in the murder.”

If you were at the scene at all, you're guilty of murder. Every week, the real story is revealed. Join us every Monday for new episodes of WickedWords. Listen to WickedWords on the I-Heart Radio app. Apple podcasts.

Or wherever you get your podcasts. I'll see you. Hello. Hello.

And welcome to rewind with Karen and Georgia.

That's right. It's Wednesday. And that means it's time for us to recap our old episodes with all new commentary updates and insights. Today, we're using it this episode to recap episode 91, which we named live at the Sony Theater in Toronto from our live show in Toronto, Canada.

This episode came out on October 19th, 2017. Okay. Let's listen to the intro of episode 91. Oh. What's up Toronto?

There they're there. There they're there. What's up Toronto? There it is. There they're there.

But magic. My mic is here. My mic is here. My mic is here. My mic is here.

My mic is here. And hour and a half. That's all we're doing. That's the show. Yay.

Comedy. Oh my god.

“This is the biggest show we've ever done.”

You guys. Good job. (audience cheering) - Fuckin' Canada, Brett Priest said that. - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah.

(audience cheering) Pretty nice. We like you guys more than our own country, right now. - Yeah. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Get us a green card or whatever it takes to live here.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Please, come back. - No, we're gonna get... - Tamed if we say that. - Um, we're, I don't have to be here. - Yeah, I love that.

I don't know. (audience laughing) - Guys, can I just explain my outfit really quick? (audience laughing) - Everyone was wondering and waiting.

I just, I got a job here at the theater. (audience laughing) Two weeks ago. And I love pulling that curtain. It's just who I am.

Here's what happened. (audience laughing) When we were recently in Australia, I brought these high heels with me that took up all this room in my suitcase.

And every day, I scorned them and I hated them and I glared at them.

I left them on my hotel room bed. Like, fuck you.

“You're on your own in a foreign country,”

piece of shit, high heels, she's... They're on their way back to her right now. - That's right. - Like a sad journey. - Yeah, they're like those cats that can walk all the way home.

I'd like their owner's move 500 miles away. - Those two years later. - Like, here I am, you son of a bitch. (audience laughing) But I conveniently forgot that when I went

to put all my things together for this trip. So I had my fancy fancy dress last night. And then I realized when I got to the theater, I did not have shoes for a very, very fancy dress. And so George is like, that's okay.

You can wear that. And I'm like, thank God, this is actually what I want to wear. (audience laughing) - I think it's... - Yeah.

(audience cheering) - Let's hear it for theater blasts. (audience laughing) They're so slimming, at least you can tell yourself that.

I just made that up and I never took an improv class.

(audience laughing) - No. I didn't. - Did you just know but me? - Yep.

- And the thing is, it works for you

“because you're like, you were gone anyways.”

Where when I had, when we decided to wear black to the shows, I had it like, all I have is like, fucking paisley shit that like Mrs. Roper would wear. And like crazy move and like vintage things with mothles and them, so I was like, I actually got a black dress.

I like literally on one. So now my closet's full of that. And so you were like, let's wear what we're wearing now. And I just had a shirt on like gray shirt that said that has been did it.

- Yeah, I mean, I'm like, I can't wear that. And more would you want it. - It's so like this. (audience laughing) - You also had a really good,

Arthur Fonds are really leather jacket. - Yeah. - And I was like, this is a great look for us. Let's switch out of the fancy dress area. - Yeah.

- I support it. - Well, I did. - I do. - I do. - I mean, well, thanks.

I appreciate it. Yeah, that's it. But wait, but there is a surprise because George's dress has, you guys are like, Celine Dion, it's even better.

George's dress has pockets. Check it out. (audience cheering) Yes. And I'm wearing, and I'm like,

I'm blaming you don't even, I'm so fucking happy to be doing. Trivus to not wear my shitty shoes, uncomfortable dress shoes out here. - Yeah.

- And where my fucking stinky ass slip on. - Look at him. (audience cheering)

- She bought the first pair of tombs.

(audience laughing) That's them right there on her feet. (audience laughing) - It's not. No children are helped with these shoes.

You can tell them about person from across the room, but the fact that I was bought these shoes. - 'Cause you were like, I could buy tombs and support you if you're not. Ooh, look at these around sale.

- Right. - And I'm like the way times go on the way after the thing, and I just don't look good on me. - So I'm getting these shitting ones. - And I'm a bad person.

“- Guys, here's the best thing that's happened.”

I feel like since we've gone on tour. Today we pulled off the freeway, driving up from Detroit Rock City. (audience cheering) - Thank you so much.

And we stopped off in Dunn, hum, hum, hum, hum. And there was, because Georgia had to pee, and there was no gas station right off the freeway, so we kind of had to drive into the city a little bit that town, we'll call it a town.

And we pulled over, like a little gross. She's corner grocery store and Georgia jumps out. She's like, I'll be right back and runs inside. - I had to pee so bad. - It was emergency levels.

- Yeah, okay. - So then, then I are sitting in the minivan. - Yeah, that's right. - And he's like, I have to pee too. And I'm like, yeah, why aren't we getting out?

I have to pee too. We get out and we go into the store. And this store is half the size of the stage. Okay, we start walking around. There's no bathroom in the store,

and Georgia is not in the store. (audience laughing) And it was 20 seconds max between the time that we went into the store and the time she went into the store.

And at first I was like, don't be crazy.

You know, like, as I'm walking and she's not there and there's no sign that says restroom, there's nothing. And then as I came back this way, I crossed an aisle and I saw Vince walking this way, which means we were both covering all of the store

at the same time and she was not in the store. And then I was just like, this is how it fucking happens. (audience laughing) Usually it's a baby or small child, but still, it's happening.

- You lost your Georgia, that we lost her. - And done him, it's him. (audience laughing)

- Maybe that's what you couldn't see.

“And I did the thing where I was like not asking for permission”

'cause I've got a piece so bad and I know, it's like one of those places where like, there's no way they're gonna let me even. - Oh, I'm such an emergency, you know. - Try to be cute.

(audience laughing) I'm just like, it's get really small. - Yeah. - Okay Timmy, we're going to see. I'm seven.

(audience laughing) I just saw, I came in saw the door and fucking booked it through like, it was obviously like the storage area. - Oh yeah. - And I was like, these people who work here

got a piece somewhere. So I'm gonna be there too. - Yeah. - I know it's one of those things where it's like, clearly this is not for customers

because it hasn't been cleaned in 40 years. (audience laughing)

It's a mop and the corner while you're paying and saw.

I didn't give a fucking shit. Weirdly though, the toilet had a toilet seat warmer, like attachment on it. - Oh those people know how to live. - They know.

- Yeah.

“- This is why they don't want anyone to use a bathroom.”

They don't want another not spending the money on the floors. - Yeah, they're like, they don't want other people in there 'cause they're like, I need to go in there and have my time. - Yeah.

- Just sit around on the toilet for a while. - I was warm. (audience laughing) - Just a moment of reala. I'm gonna go to pee.

I'm just gonna sit on the toilet. - And just really think about stuff. - Warm my butt. - And so then I came out of the bathroom and Vince was like in the dornies.

He was like, "Where were you?" Like I was like, "Oh my God, I was like gone for four hours." Like one of those things where it was like, "Where did you go?" I was like, "What?"

And I came out and you were like, "What happened?" - It was, I was scared. - I was going through that thing where I'm like, I mean, it might be too early to panic but it would be fun to panic.

So maybe I should just get my speech ready

that I've always had where I go up to the counter

and I'm like, "Listen to me, my friend was in here 20 seconds ago."

“And like, really deliver that I am like the person”

who's lost a person's speech that I've always wanted to give my whole life. I need your help. Please call your local police authorities. Something like that.

I was a little disappointed when you showed. - Sorry. (audience laughing) She's back, it's over. - And another dimension in a plane I didn't show up.

- That's right. - And you and Vince came to the show. - And then I got taken down to the police. (laughs) - Can munch out some by proxy,

mean if you like also just throw someone out in the middle of the wilderness. - I can't find her. - Yes. - There's got to be stories like that.

I mean, I guess a lot of them are like that. - That's the spotcast. - Yeah. - That's what the spotcast is. - And so we do every week.

Oh, by the way, this is the my favorite murder podcast. - Yeah. (audience cheering) - Thanks. - Thanks.

(audience cheering) - This is, thank you, this is Georgia Hardstar. - And that's can, he'll get it. (audience cheering) You guys are lucky because last night at the Detroit show,

someone brought the mitten murdering us, they're called, 'cause this is a mitten, I guess, and this is where Detroit is in shit, which I just think of in points at random places on his hand. When he's telling me about where we are,

they brought us little flags. And so the entire show last night was just flagged themed, because we couldn't put the fucking flags down, it was so much fun. - No, the last time you've waved a tiny triangular flag,

not a rectangular one, not anything about countries, or nations, or citizenship, just a little triangle one that's just about something you like. I'm telling you, do it as soon as you pass the camera. I was out of my mind filled with joy.

- Yeah. - It was just like, yeah. It was only like this big, it was like that big. - I'm telling you, during the whole show, we were both. - Fucking, that was the show, they didn't get a murder.

They just kind of dancing with flags. - In the middle of the show, as I was reading my very serious and horrifying murder, Georgia goes, "Oh my God, red flag!" And holds it up 'cause it was the red flag.

She had just been like, and he took out a live insurance policy, how's it gonna go red flag? - Red flag! - Those are really exciting for me, no one else. - I love those moments when you realize

other people are way smarter than you. And you're just like, yes, I'm seven beats behind 'cause I love this. - I get what you did. - I love it.

- I like it. - I like it. - Love it. - Anyone. (laughing)

- Guys, I, I, I propose nothing, there was a very small Canadian Kit Kat in the dressing room and I just have to commend you. (audience cheering) - Do you appreciate it though?

Do you care as much as I do? Because if you've ever had an American Kit Kat, they're like having a small flat brown candle. They sat, shit, compared to what you people are doing up here with the Kit Kat.

And I thank you. Thank you.

- Thank you. Well, they stopped having a worry without health care here. So they're like, you know what,

“let's just make our chocolate really good.”

- Get that! - Once we get there, you guys, we're gonna fucking give you a run for your money. - Much chocolate department, no we're not.

- I never get there, don't worry.

- We eat so much chocolate that we have to be hospitalized. - That's free, that would be amazing. - Yeah. - Oh my god. - If we're gonna do it, we might as well do it here.

- Yeah. - Tonight, on stage, right now, right, right, right, right. - Oh, yeah. - Oh, stay up here. (audience cheering) (audience cheering) Look at them.

(audience cheering) Look at them. - Baby. (audience cheering) - Let the people look at you.

- Yeah. - Let the people look at them. (audience cheering) - Yeah, look at them. Drink it in, Steven, drink it in.

- What if I went, oh, we love Steven at the liquor store, though, in the bathroom. We just loved him on the side. - Oh, Steven. (audience laughing)

- Hi. - Hi. - Thanks. (audience laughing)

“- Steven, Steven, ever even had you ever in your life,”

ever had 3,000 people cheer for you at one time. - Um, I'm, (audience cheering) - I'm gonna pee myself. (audience laughing) - Yeah. - Okay, well, that's Steven,

and I'm not saying that much. (audience cheering) - I'm gonna see them look that nervous before. - I know it's weirdy, acts all shy. - I know.

- I forgot to cheer this round out here fast. (audience laughing) - He was like, he was doing the like ready to go. - Yeah. - Which I called ready to go.

- He was down, and he was off. - Yeah, and he was off. (audience laughing) - You know what's funny? I just realized that Steven was standing here

'cause we always give him lots of shit

when he comes out here and also when he's not here, it's super fun. (audience laughing) - He's our living boy in every way. He's the person who edits our show.

So he knows all the stuff that we demand get, obviously the gets cut out of the show. And there's very, a very good chance that he's keeping all of the stuff that we want out. Don't say no, Steven, because I know what you're like,

I've seen that fucking mustache and action. I know what you're like. (audience laughing) - What if he has like a home computer just for the fucking bullshit?

We've been like, oh my god, cut that out, 'cause there's so much of it. (audience laughing) I'm like, I hate Bulgarians, and he's like, "Here, we fuck it up."

- Yeah. (audience laughing) - I'm going to end you. - Gonna need this one day. - Right now.

- Oh man, oh, I hope so. - Yeah.

- I mean, if we're gonna get ruined by anyone

and they're like, you know, it's nice to see that. - It's gotta be that guy. Why not, and then the per cast is here next year. - Yeah. - This whole stage is filled with cats.

(audience laughing) - People like shit like that. - I was speaking of cats, my hair tonight is brought to you by Linda Bob's burgers, for Bob's burger.

(audience laughing) - Bob's burgers, the new season's coming on tomorrow night, everybody. - I don't work for them, just a fan. - I don't even know them.

- I guess we, is it time? - I think it's time. - It's time for us to sit down. - Thank you. (audience cheering)

“I think it's hilarious that that actually”

is like a applause cue for you guys. - It's precious. - Yeah. - Any bit of extra clapping that we can milk out of you, we absolutely will.

Definitely. (audience cheering) - Thank you. (audience cheering) - Our lifeblood is renewed.

(audience laughing) But we also realize there are people that get brought to these shows of ours who do not listen to the podcast. (audience laughing)

They're like, who the fuck was that millennial? (audience laughing) Like, what's going on? Someone's like, my best friend, like, you know, broke up with me today.

Like, well, you please come with me. Just show it on the go alone. - Yeah. - And they come and they're like, okay, you like it. You love comedy.

- They're like, I've seen two girls talking before. I don't need the, I don't know. - Yeah. - I didn't need a pass to go see that shit. (audience laughing)

So, just so you guys know, this is a podcast about murder. (audience cheering) - Call my favorite murder. - It's our favorite ones.

And, but it's also a comedy podcast. - Yeah. - Can be a bit dicey. - So, hold on to your butts, everyone. - Yeah.

- Especially if your butt gets triggered really easy. - Yeah. - It's, I'd just be careful. You've got it, trigger butt. (audience laughing)

- It's you trigger butt. It happens a lot. - It happens a lot. - All over, all over this great country. - Leading cause of.

- Hello, ready. (audience cheering)

Every time we record one of these rewind episodes,

“I expect it to be closer to what year it is right now,”

2026, and it's always so far in the past, 2017.

- It's so far pre-COVID even. - Yeah, oh my god, yeah. - It's like, we didn't even know how good we had it. - You know. - Like, it was a glimmer in our eyes.

I just wonder when the day will be over and we're like, "Oh, that was just last year. "It's just, we'll be ever catch up." - I know. - It's so nuts.

- Also, I know for a fact I do this, but I have so many great memories of doing shows in Toronto, but that I've combined them all into one. Like, the one visual, one kind of thing where I'm like, "No, that was the first one.

"No, that was the second one." But always a great audience. - Yeah, this is the one where you guys thought you lost me. - Yes! Oh my god, that was the dumbest.

- It was, what was it? - Disappeared, I was like, this episode of Disappeared. - It was like, yeah, exactly. It was that Kurt Russell movie. - Yes.

“- Well, the sudden his wife's gone and no one can help him.”

It was that feeling where the whole time I kept going, I know she's here. This is a stupid thing to be worried about, but then it's like, every minute that ticks by your like, is it?

I want to wear it. - Is she not? - I would watch a movie or a TV show where the best friend and husband are trying to find her. And you know, I don't want to happen in real life

by episode, or by season three is, you know, will they want to? It's just kind of a-- (laughs) - And they're waiting for the girl.

- I soon, oh, I mean, that's good. - That's right when the, like, she staggers in with a big branch in her hair. It's like, wait, what? Where have you been?

- She's living with a pack of coyotes. - She's like, what have you done? - A pack of coyotes, but it's only like 20 feet behind the gas station, they were out. (laughs)

- I just really had to pee. - I panicked. I panicked and moved in. I had to pee so bad that I was getting angry at Vince. And like, it was somehow his fault

that there wasn't a bathroom, like, 'cause we're on the freeway, he was driving,

“and I just remember, like, I know this is like,”

not pointed in the right direction. - Rarely it. - But I'm so fucking pissed at him right now.

- Well, and also here's the thing.

We were doing three different cities a weekend and driving from one to the other. It was above and beyond touring. It was touring to the max, and we also were doing it, it never stopped.

It started and never stopped. - It was the traffic tour. - It was not so. There was so much Starbucks involved. - Yes, there was.

I ate so many of those egg bites that I can't eat them anymore. - It was to be for real. I'm like, oh, they're good 'cause they're protein, but no, I never, again, never, again. - No, I think this was just a classic,

beautiful Toronto show, and we should get right into it. - Yeah, because you fucking surprised the audience with one of the biggest Canadian fucking true crime stories of all time, which I think they, I mean, they like the obscure ones too,

but they love it when you, the audience loves it, when you're like, here is your put you on the map story. - Plus it was a make-up for the bad way I told it the first time. - Right, right, yeah, you really came in hot with this one. Let's get into care and story about the canon Barbie murders

perpetrated by Paul Bernardo and Carla Hamulca. (upbeat music) - There's two golden rules that any man should live by.

Rule one, never mess with a country girl.

He plays stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends, I'm Anison Field, and in this new season of the girlfriends. - Oh my God, this is the same man.

- A group of women discovered they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought how could this happen to me. - The cops didn't seem to care.

So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh hell no, I vowed. I will be his last target. He's gonna get what he deserves. (upbeat music)

- Listen to the girlfriends, trust me, babe. On the I-Hot Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your popcorns. (upbeat music) ♪ Tent that shot's wide city all building ♪

- A silver 40 caliber handgun was recovered at the scene. - From I-Hot Podcasts and best case studios. This is Worshack, murder at City Hall. - Could this have happened in City Hall? Somebody tell me that.

- Good for you, good for you. - July, 2003. - Councilman James E Davis arrives at New York City Hall with a guest. Both men are carrying concealed weapons.

And in less than 30 minutes, both of them will be dead.

- Have everybody in the chambers of dogs, a shocking public murder. - A scream, get down, get down. Those are shots, those are shots, get down. - A charismatic politician.

- You know, he just bent the rules all the time. - I still have a weapon. - And I could shoot you. - And an outsider with a secret. - He alleged he was effective flat down.

- That may have been not have been political. That may have been about six. - Listen to Worshack, murder at City Hall on the I-Hot Radio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you can get your podcasts.

- Hi, it's Alec Baldwin. This season on my podcast,

here's the thing I'm speaking with more artists,

policy makers and performers, by composer Mark Schema. - Once you've established that you have the talent, it's about the hang. It's the pleasure of hanging out with the people

that you're with. You know, Robin I was always a great hang. We would sit in quibbits for hours and then eventually get around to the music.

“That's what I mostly think of when I think of him,”

the time together laughing. Lawyer, Robbie Kaplan. - The great gift of being a lawyer is the ability to actually change things in our society in a way that very few people can.

I mean, you can really make a difference to causes, and I say it's if you bring the right case at the right time and right time. - That's your quality. - Yeah, when there's the perfect example.

- And journalist Chris Whipple, every White House staffer, they work in a bubble called the West Wing, and it's exponentially more so in the Trump White House. - Listen to the new season.

Up here's the thing on the I-Hot Radio App

or wherever you get your podcasts. - Do you go first? - I think I go first. We did two shows last night in Detroit and I went first. - Right? - Yeah. - It's me, right Steven?

- We got a thumbs up from Steven. - Yeah. - If Steven says we go first. - Yeah. - That's a name.

- Yeah.

“Steven won of the 3000 people yelled your name.”

So, calm down. She wins this rug. She gets to take this rug home with her in the night. - Oh, guys, we brought this rug from home. Just like you know, I get a little homesick when we travel.

So it's like something with me and Vince is one possibility, but I also like to have my rug. And it's really my maintenance, but I would love it like this specific kind of assholes we're going to turn into if we do a lot of shows like this.

- Oh, it's just like, is the rug there? - Yeah. - Well, then I'm not there. - How's that? (audience laughing) - Plotted that kind of stuff?

- Yeah. - Where's the rug? (laughs) - The rug rehearsals of 530. - No one was there. (audience laughing)

- We're like rehearsals. - I love that. - I just had to say that these are the most comfortable and reasonably high-dedgears we've ever sat in. (audience cheering)

- Speaking of getting into specifics,

you just we never know what the chair situation is gonna be.

- He's like, I'm telling you, sit down. - I was positive, my chair was gonna break last night. I didn't want to say it at the theater, 'cause I didn't want to insult them and their chairs, but there was this wobbly thing that I was like,

this is gonna, and it was like such that I knew that I'd put backwards. - Oh. - They were high? - Yes, they were very high last night. (sighs)

We should start wearing helmets. (audience laughing) Okay, but they have to be black. (audience laughing) They have to be formal helmets.

- Global. (audience laughing) - Uh, so onto the murder. - Oh, right. - Oh, shit girl.

- Yeah. - Did you see it? - I did. - Okay, so. - This is heavy here. - This is heavy here. - I can't help but I have perfect vision. (audience laughing)

- And you're a really good upside-down reader. (audience laughing) - Well, they have either, I'm sorry. You don't know, go ahead. - Heavy hitters episode, I think.

- Heavy hitters. But it's also, it's also a apology make-up work for the city of Toronto in the country. (audience laughing) - As a whole.

- We owe you guys. (audience cheering) - Guys, long, long ago in 1968, when we started this podcast, (audience laughing) and I thought it was kind of like,

I thought it was what we were talking about it to be when we first conceived of it, which was, "Hey, you and me all sit in your living room." We'll just like talk about serial killers and murder and true crime and stuff

that were kind of fascinated by casually conversation. (audience laughing) And very quickly, relearned that that is absolutely not the way you can talk about true crime

“because you have to know years and cities”

and facts and dates and the truth. It's really important. It's a big part of it. - Yeah. - And I think it was around like the third episode.

- Yeah. - I, (audience cheering) Thanks. - They knew, they were ready to tell you 'cause they're pissed.

I did this one and I talked through it as if it happened to my neighbor. (audience laughing) I was so young back then. (audience laughing)

The whole reason I wanted to do it is 'cause I had one actually like one person away from one degree away story that I loved to tell all the time.

“And that's what I was building the whole concept around”

but like I didn't do any research at all. And I remember some girl emailing her tweeting but she was just like, "That was horrible." And then I was like, "Yeah, that was horrible." You're right.

And then this whole time I've been saving it to come to Toronto to redo it. (audience cheering) 'Cause I felt bad. It was quite an awakening to realize

that I just signed up for a podcast where I had to do a fucking book report every week. I get to not my jam as you can well as you well know. But anyway, tonight I'm gonna do the case of the schoolgirl killers,

the Ken and Barbie killers, Paul Bernardo, and Carl Alhamel-Bah. (audience cheering)

For visitors, boyfriends, girlfriends, people who've never

come before, we're not cheering for the martyrs. We're not. It feels like we are. I understand why that would bother a person and maybe scare them to death.

(audience laughing) It's not what's happening. (audience laughing)

“At least with me, I shouldn't speak for everybody.”

All right, I got most of the research from this retelling of the factual story from the A&E series biography that they did on these murders, which is actually incredibly thorough.

And they had a Scottish narrator, which I think is bold. (audience laughing) Definitely. The Canadian guy was sick that day.

The Canadian guy that they had for it. Will it was YouTube so it's international? I guess. Unless they do only Canadian YouTube here, like that's the thing they don't tell you about Canada.

They can take over your YouTube. (audience laughing) And they internet like this site can't be seen. Canadian. Sorry about that.

(audience laughing) Okay.

“The other chunk of information or bunch of information”

that I got was, I stumbled upon this amazing article

on a website called the Walrus. Yeah, it's so good. That's a good one. So a girl, a woman named Stacey Mae Fowls wrote this. She's from Scarborough.

She was 11 years old at the time that the Scarborough rapist was at the height of his reign of terror. And she wrote a beautiful article that I highly recommend you go read

called "Boy Next Door." It's amazing, I cried at the end. It was really fucking great. And it made me really happy and I stole stole stole.

Okay. (audience laughing) Okay, so. Paul Bernardo was born 1964 in Scarborough, Ontario. He was the youngest child to Kenneth and Marilyn Bernardo

and unhappy couple.

Isn't that how these always start?

I mean, what couple that we know in these stories? Is happy. - Oh. - Or sober. (audience laughing) Yeah. His father would later face charges

of being a peeping tom and a pedophile. And he also molested Paul's sister. So that things were happening from jump for Paul. He also physically verbally abused his whole family and he often called his wife, bitch and big fat cow.

His mother was a depressive, I wonder why. And she'd also, she'd often leave the family for the weekend and just go stay with her family. And after a while, in this family, things got so bad that she just went down

and lived in the basement. Whoa. Yeah. That's how some people cope. Yeah, just, you go as low as you can.

Just get way down there by the Christmas decoration. (audience laughing) So dark. It's just like, "Mom, is there any milk? That's okay, I'll do it, I'll do it."

(audience laughing) So, although Paul Bernardo was described as a happy child as a youth, he, when he joined the Boy Scouts, all the people, the leaders noticed that he really loved starting fires.

That was his Boy Scouts Jam. Aren't they supposed to start fire? I mean, they're supposed to start fires. (audience laughing) I got scared for a minute, but then I was like,

But it's like, you get your badge.

“And then you don't need to start a whole bunch of other fires.”

Okay, got it, got it, got it. Is the thing, smart. So, in 1981, when he was 16, he found out that Kenneth wasn't his biological father and he lost his shit, obviously.

Although, in retrospect, I would feel pretty good about it. Yeah, what's a positive. The peeping Tom is not your dad. Yeah, quit crying, everything's fine. (audience laughing)

But of course, he was 16, this had been his life, it's like he founded his whole life as a lie. So, he was furious at his mother, he blamed his mother, a whole thing, started calling her slut and horror. You know?

And she started calling him bastard all the time.

Just fucking, good time, Sunday to Sunday,

has to Bernard us house. Come over for dinner, you're going to love it. (audience laughing) Okay, so after graduating from high school, he gets a job with Amway.

Are you guys familiar with Amway? It's like a pyramid scheme. It's weird, they sell a bunch of different shit, but it's like, really, the point is that you get more people that you know to come in and sell this weird,

like, longer detergent and shit. Just a pyramid scheme.

“It's like, Karen, have you noticed how clean my shirt is?”

I actually did notice that here at lunch. Like, be with that one of us, right? That's right. I want my shirt to be that clean.

They're really not that clean.

But what he really picked up from working there was this, the, what they call, the polemic sales culture. Didn't look it up, not sure what it means. But what I assume it means is pushy pushy pushy,

like they don't take no for an answer and they kind of like get you from every direction, and they're super manipulative or it could mean casual. Who knows? That's the joy of this podcast.

It's all question-marky. We have to stay true to some of our roots. Yes. Or else it won't be the podcast you listen to. That's right.

I had to leave one thing on research just so you knew I was still me. Yeah. I got to be me. OK, he starts using these sales techniques to pick up women.

By the time he begins because women love detergent. By the time he starts going to school at the University of Toronto at Scarborough, he is displaying sure go raccoons. He's displaying all the signs of being a psychopath.

Charming, outgoing, life of the party, but also an incredibly sinister dark side that only a couple people know about. Like his girlfriends who keep on breaking up with him, all of his relationship, like time links,

just keep getting shorter and shorter because women go out with them and they're just like, sorry, you're not allowed to call me a slut. I will only know you for three days. OK, we'll see later.

So he actually threatened to kill a couple of his girlfriends if they ever told how abuse if he was to them in their private life. God. He was fixated on conquering women. He was just obsessed with picking them up, having sex with them,

and then making them do whatever he wanted. All right, so that's Paul Bernardo. In a nutshell, I'm sure there's tons of other things to say about it, but now, Carla, this is because that obsession that he had, making women do whatever he wanted,

that's where Carla Homoca comes into the scene. She was born in 1970 in Port Credit, Ontario. Her father was traveling salesman and an alcoholic, of course. She had two younger sisters, Lori and Tammy. Carla was also a bright student.

She was, she, oh, their father was drunk. Was a drunk that would insult the whole family, and then he would go down into the basement. Is that fucking weird? Yeah.

What are the chances? Is that a thing here? They're like, yeah, no, everyone's parents said that. That's right. That's Canada.

That's where all the kick cats are. They just don't tell America. Don't tell the US about us.

“It's like, what if it's very healing to go into the basement?”

It's actually very good for you. They're just like, that's our secret. It's good for your skin. And so, also when Carla's mother found out that her father was having an affair, she told him it was fine and to invite the mistress in for a monage to law.

So there's a lot of bad relationship patterning for both of these people.

Here you go. It would be fine.

“Okay, so she was described as a child as being stubborn, domineering.”

She was a rebel in high school. She cut herself.

She would always claim that she was going to commit suicide to get attention.

She graduated 1988 and she became a full-time veterinary technician. Up until that last part, that was so me. So me. Okay, in May of 1987 in Scarborough, that's 21-year-old woman. She gets off the bus.

She's followed by a man who was on the bus as well. And he comes up from behind, assaults her, and she ends up being the first victim of the Scarborough rapist. And over the next 13 months, these assaults continue and they escalate very quickly. The Scarborough rapist begins raping women, orally vaginally, and annually, cutting them,

or penetrating them with a knife.

“He chokes them, he punches them in the face.”

He stole one victim's ID, noted her home address, and then threatened to kill her family. He broke another victim's arm. All the victims were attacked from behind, so none of them saw his face, but they all described him as a tall young man with light hair. While he was attacking them, he made them call themselves degrading names, like slut and

poor, so the police call in the FBI immediately to profile his rapist, which is great move, and they bring in FBI agent Greg McCree. You have seen this guy on every crime show there is. He is the guy, he's the FBI agent with the gray hair who looks really tired of crime. He's like so fucking sick of people being bad to each other, so like when he's explaining

this stuff, he's kind of quiet like this, but he's kind of like man's in humanity to man. That's what he's saying.

No matter what he's actually saying, that's just always what he's saying.

I love Greg McCree, okay, so he does a profile on the rapist. He says this is a sadistic rapist with a high probability of escalation, young in his early 20s, local, intelligent, high functioning in a dependent living situation, so probably living with his family. So crazy that he was able to determine all that fucking, yeah, yeah, they know all that

shit. It's crazy. And then a psychopath, obviously. So in April of 1988, a 19 year old woman is attacked after getting off the bus, she was actually pulled between two houses and raped and yelled for help, and the people in the

house that's heard her and didn't respond. No, guys, that's not how we, that's not how we do it. So the next month, the total number of known Scarborough rapist victims had risen to seven. So this little, this little bit crazy, Constable Vic Clark told the press, quote, "Don't

expect people to watch out for you if you happen to come back at 1 a.m. in the morning off the bus." Right, like the police, he said, it'd be nice to think that you can go anywhere you like nowadays, but don't put yourself in a vulnerable position. Hold on, hold your hate because the same month, Alderman John Mackie proposed a

curfew for women. Oh, for women, finally, get them out of the street. We've been waiting, we told what time we're safe. Just the logic there is, you're, you're curfewing the gender that is not crazy, anybody don't say?

No, no, no, come on, come on. In a refreshing turn, the Toronto Transit Commission instituted its request stop program, right? So which meant that women who wrote the bus at night could tell the bus driver, you can drop me right here in front of my fucking house and you didn't have to wait till the next bus stop so that women could get deliverance exactly to where they needed to be.

“That's, that's what you do, that's problem-solving right there moving here immediately.”

Um, okay, October 17th, 1987, Carla Molka is now age 17, and she meets Paul Bernardo age 23 in a hotel restaurant in Scarborough. Two hours later, they're having sex in her hotel room, um, which no judgment. Okay, look. Yeah.

If anybody else would be into it. The friends who were with both of them that day said that the chemistry was palpable,

like it was in the air and like it always is when two psychopaths and follow them up.

Uh, Barbie and Ken. Look at those warm, welcoming eyes on both of them, they're just, when you love to sit in a hotel restaurant and stare across, at her, satanic, satanic eyes, and then his, whatever they're doing, eyes, and his tiny, tiny teeth with a fake smile surrounding them. He's like, this is what humans do when cameras come out.

This is it. Happiness. Hi, baby. Well, Carla's family thinks that Paul Bernardo is great. They don't, they don't mind the age different, her parents don't mind the age difference.

He's smart. Good looking.

He's trained to be an accountant, um, her sister's think of him as the brother they never

had. Soon, um, he's coming to her, she still lives with her parents. Um, and soon she's driving to her house, uh, like a couple of times a week.

“I think it was an 80 mile drive, um, from Scarborough to St. Catherine, which is where she”

lived. Um, she rags her friends about how mature her 20-year-old boyfriend is. In a year, she's confiding to them that he has become verbally abusive to her. Um, but she always forgives them, uh, December 24th, 1989. They take a trip to Niagara Falls, and they get engaged, um, did someone applaud?

No, I think someone took their compacts out of their purse, because they have something in their eye. And she's like, I love love, and I don't care. She's just like, shit. Um, okay, so they plan to marry in spring of 1991, um, the family's thrilled.

In May of 1990, which is six months later, the Scarborough police released a composite sketch

of the Scarborough rapist based on all of the victims, um, telling the police sketch artist. So can we see that composite? I'm so excited. Oh. Stephen, I wish you could have cropped that up a little higher.

Fucking. Why do we pay you? Oh, my god, he left. He ripped off his mustache and left. He looks like he's in the style council.

He looks, can I add another one? Yeah. He looks like, when you walk by like a, he'd hair salon, and they have photos, and they're like, yeah, this is the, the called the Scarborough rapist. I hate to say it out loud, but I love the Scarborough rapist look.

Is it wrong?

“I think the sweepover would look great on my giant forehead.”

Okay.

Well, here's what's crazy is Paul Bernardo's friends and his co-workers see this, and

they're like ring, ring, ring, nine one one or whatever it is in Canada. Hello. Get me the fucking police right now. Shut up. A ton of people that he worked with and that were friends with him called the police

and we're like, that's Paul Bernardo. And can we do this side by side comparison? Yeah. Yeah. I don't see it.

I don't see it. I don't see it. I don't see it. Fuck man. Okay.

“So the police bring him in for an interview.”

He's polite, he's charming, and he's calm, like any good psychopath would be. He volunteers his DNA. What? What? It can't be you.

They collect hair blood and saliva samples that are sent to the lab where they will sit for two years. I don't like that. It's 1990. Okay.

So then he moves in with Carla and her parents in St. Catherine's. And suddenly, the Scarborough rape stop, that's crazy. He tells Carla that, so this is where it gets, I mean, we knew this was going to happen, but this is so fucked.

So he tells Carla that she can't give him the one thing he really wants, which is her virginity because she already gave that away. So she can still give it to him, just through the person closest to her, her 15-year-old sister, Tammy, and Carla agrees. So on December 23rd, after the whole rest of the family goes to bed, Paula and Carla

invite Tammy to stay up with them after the, and Carla has crushed sleeping pills and animal tranquilizers that she stole from her job. Oh my god. Is that that? Yeah.

It's so dark. Yeah. Into her drink, she loses consciousness. Carla puts a rag so through the drug, how, howlothene over her face, Paul rapes her. When Paul is done, he tells Carla, he wants her to rape her.

All of it is on videotape.

So in the middle of that, Tammy begins to vomit and then choke on her own. And Paul, I'm Carla rush, put her clothes back on her and then call in ambulance. In the early hours of December 24th, 1990, Tammy and Olga is pronounced dead. And aside from them, serious burn marks on her face, which Carla and Paul say must have been rug burns, her death is ruled and accident.

A month later, Paul and Carla move out of her parents' house in St. Catharines, they move into a two-story house in Port, Delucy. I did it right. A job.

“Thank you, because I spelled it, it looks like Delucy, kind of, just went for it?”

That could have, I really did. I'm proud of you. Thank you so much. It was really fucking scary. No, it's terrifying.

There's so many people here, right? Like, you guys made us, not you guys, but this podcast is made us scared of saying places in this world.

We never say it right ever.

Yeah. I mean, it's guess it's not your fault. It's our fault. But still, it's your fault. Okay, when they're in their own house, he starts physically abusing Carla.

And then when she threatens to leave him, she reminds her he is a video tape of her killing her own sister, and so she has to say. June 15, 1991, Paul wakes Carla up in the middle of the night to tell her he has a surprise. He has kidnapped 14-year-old Leslie Mahafi out of her own backyard. So this is super fucked.

Leslie had gone out for the day.

“I think I read something where it said that she was at a friend's funeral, and then she”

stayed out past her curfew.

So she probably, like, if her friend died, she got drunk with her friends or something. And when she got home, it was past her curfew. Her parents locked her out of the house. So she went into the backyard, and that's when Paul Bernardo saw her, and he lured her into his car with a cigarette, offering her a cigarette.

She was like sure, and then he ends up kidnapping her, taking her to the house. Paul and Carla videotape themselves, raping and torturing Leslie for 24 hours, then strangled her, cut up her body, and casin and cement and dump it in Lake Gibson. Two weeks later on June 29, 1991, two fishermen spot some strange blocks in the lake, as they're fishing.

When they look closer, they see the human flesh is sticking out of the cement. It's the body of Leslie Mahafi. From the same day that her body is found, Paul Bernardo and Carla Hmoka get married in a Catholic church in Niagara on the lake in front of a hundred friends and family. What?

Where's the fuck?

“When, in the special that I was watching, when it switched from that to the video of”

their fucking fucked up early 90s wedding, it, like, the version of chills, I got where, like, this is insanity. These are people who are completely cut off from any reality of what they're doing. It was horrifying and the hair and the dress so ugly. I'm sure that was part of it, but now Paul starts telling Carla that he wants her to invite

Tammy's friends over to the house so that he can do the same thing to Tammy's friends and she does. So they start drugging these girls that were friends with her sister and a lot of these girls had no memory of anything happening. They only found out after the video tapes were found and then they were informed that that had happened to them.

Oh, my god. It's young. Couldn't be darker. Okay, on April 16th, 1992, Paul and Carla are driving around looking for a new victim. They're just full on fucking predators.

They see a 15-year-old girl named Christian French who's walking home from school. They pull into a church parking lot. Carla gets out holding a map and then when Christian walks by, she waves her, like, sorry, I need to know directions and they pull her into the car and kidnap her. But this time there's witnesses.

So people saw, people actually saw, Kristen get taken, but when they reported to the police, multiple people say that it was a beige Camaro. So immediately the police realized a girl's been kidnapped, a girl's body has just been found. We've got something serious happening.

They put together what they called the Green Ribbon Task Force, dedicated to figuring out what the fuck is going on. And the Green River Task Force puts up this billboard immediately. Have you seen this car? Wanted in the abduction of Kristen French, and there's the Green Ribbon Hotline.

The only problem was that Paarl Bernardo drove a gold Nissan. He did not drive a beige Camaro.

And April 30th, 1992, Kristen's body is found in a ditch in Burlington. She's clearly been tortured. Her hair has been cut off.

“Them the violence within the marriage begins to escalate on January 5th, 1993.”

Karla goes to the emergency room, he is a pulse beating her with a flashlight. She has two black eyes that go from like here to here and they're dark purple. She has broken ribs, extreme bruising. Before she leaves the house to go to the emergency room, she tries to go find the video tapes.

And she can't find them anywhere. Today's later, January 25th, 1993, the D&A samples come back that Bernardo had given to the Scarborough police, and they match the DNA of the Scarborough rapist. So the Toronto police bring Karla in to talk to her because they know that you talk to

the wife, you know, like basically they have to break the news to her and then try to get

information. And that's our boy, FBI agent, Greg McCreary, who leads the interview. Well, the the degree ribbon task force did was there too and they did the interview. They knew everything that was going on. They knew.

So they didn't accuse her of anything. They were more talking to her like they were being understanding and it's just basically trying to get information out of her. So basically once she talks to the police, she kind of knows that they're closing in on them.

So she goes to an uncle and she confesses everything. She tells the uncles everything that they've done.

“And the uncle says you have to get a lawyer right now.”

So she tells the lawyer you have to get me full immunity for my I'll testify against my husband.

But you have to give me immunity.

So then she ends up making a full confession saying that Paul is the Scarborough rapist that he's responsible for the murders of Kristen French Leslie of a coffee and her sister Tammy and that she was forced to participate in all of it against her will. And then she says all the proof they need is in their house on those video tapes if they just find them.

So February 19th, 1993, a search warrant is executed in Bernardo home. There's it's a 71 day search. What the fuck? Yeah, they just kept looking because they couldn't fucking find these video tapes anywhere. And they ended up not being able to find them in the house.

So without evidence, without that kind of evidence, they only have Carlos testimony. So they have to plea bargain with her because yeah, she they need her testimony. So she agrees to testify against him in exchange for reduced sentence. The whole deal was kept secret from the public to ensure a fair trial for Paul Bernardo. So reporters were allowed in the courtroom the day of her sentencing, but they were only

allowed.

“It was a it was a publicity ban they were called.”

They called it and they were only allowed to report on what the charges were and what the sentence was. They weren't allowed to report on anything else. Wow. So of course, this made all the press go crazy of like how bad is this, this must be the worst

thing ever because they never do stuff like this.

So in July of 1993, Carlo home all completes guilty to two counts of manslaughter. And she receives two, 12 year sentences to be served concurrently. No, that was her deal. She sent a Kingston prison and then soon after she files for divorce. September.

Right. Yeah, like at this point, don't worry about it. Cut fate, baby. Yeah. Get out.

It lawyers like, I'm not also doing that. Yeah. You can't pay me enough. She's like, hey, every psychopath for themselves, I don't have a conscience. So I don't care about you.

My husband. And so in September 1994, Paul Bernardo's lawyer quit. He's not going to represent him anymore. That's how bad it was. Well, it turns out that the reason that the cops couldn't find those video tapes inside

their house is because Paul Bernardo's lawyer had gone into the house and taken them out. No. Yeah, they were hidden up in just for future use. If you ever looking for anything or need to hide anything, they were upstairs in a bathroom ceiling light fixture up, like, hidden up above.

What a dick. Yeah. The lawyer. Dick lawyer, but then when he quit, he gave the tapes to the next lawyer who was representing Paul Bernardo.

And that guy's like, yeah, I'm going to go ahead and give these to the cops. The law. I mean, right? Yeah. Let me just say this though.

Not right away. Really. Like two weeks later. Oh, like thought about it. I mean.

I don't know. Let's left on it. I mean, for two weeks.

And then he was like, oh, I don't want to be the devil like the rest of these people. Um, okay.

“So, uh, May 18th, 1995, Paul Bernardo's trial begins.”

Oh, sorry. So, once the police have the tapes, they have to look at them. They see what's on them. And they realize that her story of Paul being fully responsible for everything is a total fucking lie and that she was happily participating in all of it.

And as coldly and horribly as he was, and that, yes, she was clearly an abused wife. But still on the video tape didn't seem to be having a problem with any of it.

And they then realized that they called it the deal with the devil, where they just basically,

they, they, they, given her the easiest way out, and she was just as guilty as he was. Wow. So, according to the video tape, which, you know, is pretty objective. Okay. Um, so May 18th, 1995, Paul Bernardo's trial begins.

The defense claims that Carla was the one who turned Paul into a murder. He was just a plain rapist before. Oh, she, she, she fucking, Yoko, oh, no, that shit, she got in there and she fucked it up. And she should have a curfew.

But then Carla gives her testimony and then on September 1st, 1995, the jury deliberates for eight hours and then finds Paul Bernardo guilty of all nine charges against him, including two counts of first-degree murder. Um, yeah. He sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole for 25 years.

No, that's not long enough.

1995. No. Do a little math. I can't. Okay.

That's soon. Um, he was also, uh, a couple months later declared a dangerous offender, which meant that he would likely spend the rest of his life in jail. Um, don't clap so fast. Um, in 2001, an Ontario court ordered that all evidence from the Paul Bernardo, Carla

Homoka case is be destroyed. So Leslie Mahafi and Kristen Frances parents and a bunch of the officers and the detectives that worked on the case went down and witnessed all of the pictures and all of the video tape and all of the evidence from the entire case that watched it all get destroyed. Yeah.

Um, which makes me very happy.

Yeah. In 2005, 35-year-old Carla Homoka was released from prison after serving a 12-year sentence. What the fuck? Don't it feel like you're bullying us? Um, she moved to Montreal.

She changed her name to Leanne Teele. Oh, we know who she is. Leanne Teele.

“That's what I would have changed my name to if I had to move away.”

Sure. 'Cause Teele's a great color and Leanne is a name no one uses anymore. She got married and in 2007 she had a baby. No, no, no, no, no. Yeah.

Um, it was recently discovered that she was volunteering at her child's school and, um, in June, that school just released a statement, not naming any names, but saying that they do not allow anyone with a, uh, criminal record on their property. So she no longer volunteers for her child's school. Oh, do we have that statement?

Do you have that picture? This is modern day. Oh, shit. I wonder if the school did everyone, like, recognize her and know who she was. I think there's people out there that are like, excuse me.

I know who she is. Yeah. There's she couldn't move back to her hometown, which is what she was going to do when she first got into jail. So she had to move to Montreal.

I mean, I'm sure it's great. I love French people, but yeah, had to move to Montreal. She had to, uh, FBI profiler Greg McCreary, Belize Carlo Mouca, may have been more psychopathic than Paul Bernardo, um, being that she was able to live with the murder of her own sister.

Yeah. I mean, you can't compare psychopathy. I don't think, but, um, I like the idea that he was like, you know, something to think about. And the whole time I was, it's that thing where you're like, well, when battered women

aren't they, you know, you have battered spouse syndrome, you're in that situation. What would you do? Yeah. Or what would you be forced to do or whatever. Then I read this piece of information that I thought was pretty bone chilling.

When Carlo Mouca was questioned and fingerprinted by the police, um, they noticed that she was wearing a Mickey Mouse watch that looked a lot like the one Kristen French was wearing when she disappeared.

“Just in case you're in any, do you have worries about Carlo that she was being persecuted?”

Uh, I don't, I don't think if you were in that situation that you'd just be like, oh, a trophy. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Uh, uh, my hands hurt because I'm gripping this microphone, so tightly because I'm like,

Sorry, it's almost over. I'm kind of good way. I'm so bad.

“Um, in 2017, Paul Bernardo, uh, that's this year.”

So he has served 22 years of his sentence already, which means that they're now starting

to discuss parole issues. Um, despite being declared a dangerous offender, he is in 2018 or no, this year he's eligible for day parole, which means you get to leave jail and then come back in the evening. No, that's not how prison works. Well, everyone, he, the hearing was supposed to be an August, and they pushed it to October.

So, and it's happening on the stage, right? Nice gentleman, let's all get a stage and murder him. We're just, we cause a fucking Canadian riot like you wouldn't believe that would be the most badass movement at that time. Yeah.

Um, Bernardo's hearing, uh, will likely take place at the Millhaven Institute in Bath, which

“is near Kingston, which is where he has been serving his life sentence.”

He is eligible for full parole in 2018. So we'll see how it goes. You guys, don't do it. Don't please don't do it. Who here is deciding?

Um, okay, so I just want to read you the final paragraph of Stacey May fouls article, because I loved it so much. It's, it's this quote, I came across a story that ran in the star published soon after the trial concluded, which argued that Bernardo was not the monster we wanted to believe him to be, but rather one of us, a product of our culture, a man groomed with a

pervasive violent hatred of women, Mary Lou McFadran, a women's rights advocate spoken in, of the insidious impact Bernardo had on our community, that he had created an ambient trauma, even for those who had not been directly victimized by him.

It is a wound that will probably never heal.

The Bernardo case has been played out as a titillating drama, she said, and we failed to understand what it's done to us. Wow. That's it. So fucked up, really terrible.

You made up for episode three, I can't say sorry any more than what I just did, that's all I can do. Let's go back to episode three, Stephen take this note, take out Karen's story, but this bit in, just out of the blue, we can I retell the whole reason I told that story in the first place, that story of my friends, oh yeah, I'm sorry, is this like, this is one last thing.

Oh, so I just so cold and dry, um, yet no, I forgot, it's like, my friend, so Paul Greenberg

“who was on a sketch show called the vacant lot, you should know him and love him, he's”

from here, hilarious man, now he lives in Los Angeles, you might hate him because of that. Somehow, he's the one that told me in the story, his mother was an artist and she lived in a high-rise apartment building that had pooled on the roof and she lived in Scarborough at the time that all these things were going on in the beginning of it, not the, not the couple's school girl killer time in the Scarborough rate this time.

She goes up on to swim one day, it's daytime, there's nobody up there and she's doing laps. She is, um, I believe at the time she was in her late 60s or early 70s. She's doing laps in the pool and a young man comes out, um, onto the roof as well.

She doesn't really pay attention, she's just doing her laps and then she finally looks

up and realizes he's just standing at the end of the pool staring at her and as she's doing her laps, it's like he's just standing over her, watching her swim and she is super freaked out by it and really scared and it's getting to the point, he starts walking along the side of the pool as she swims, and so she's shitting and it's not the way she would tell the story, I'm sure, until the fucking rooftop burst open and like three families with kids run out and she's like,

"Who am I out of here?" Okay, so she goes right back down to her apartment and sketches his face. She's like, "Uh-uh." Well, when that Scarborough rapist picture came out, she went and pulled the sketch out and showed Paul and she's like, "That's the man that was on the roof and it was the exact same guy." Oh my god. Yeah. Chills. I know. I love a first-hander. I'm sorry. I love a first-hander. Absolutely. It's the best. Great job. Thank you. That's okay.

Too much, there's too much clapping. It's too much clapping. It went from us needing an

much. The clapping. To ruining our own clapping. Okay, we are back. Karen, you have any updates?

“There are some updates. Paul Bernardo has applied for parole three times, October 2018, June 2021”

and November 2024. He's been denied all three times during his last hearing members from both Leslie and Kristen's family's spoke. Flipperation only took 30 minutes. He's 60 years old. In November of 2023, he was moved from Milhaven to Makaza, which was a medium security prison. Of course, there was backlash. I mean, this man is one of the worst serial rapists of all time. What's the need to move him to a medium security prison? No. He's not 90. He's 60 years old. Right, 60. Yeah.

Exactly. So then there was a probe into this transfer in March of 2024 after members of Parliament learned that the correctional facility had a hockey rank tennis court and weight rooms for

“its inmates, the commissioner of crash on service of Canada and Kelly. So the transfer was sound,”

but it's still left people with questions about, quote, sadistic murderers being left to enjoy freedoms and luxuries of lower security prisons. Yeah, bro. I'm sorry. No fucking hockey if you're a serial killer. Like, and this man who's so particularly Craven and like he was a serial rapist and then he became a serial killer. He is an example of how bad it can be if you don't tend to these people in some way. And you're going to be like, yep, let's transfer him to medium

security. And if I lived in that town where the medium security prison was, I would be terrified. He is still a threat. Yeah. You know, like, it's just, I can't imagine. It's so nice. I'm still boggles my mind that's that she's just disappeared into society. You know, like that boggles my mind too, but what are you going to do? Yeah. Okay, you know what we're going to do. We're going to get into your story about the trial of Stephen Truscott. There's two golden rules that any man

should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. He plays stupid games. You get stupid

prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girl friends. I'm Anna Sinfield. And in this new season of The Girl Friends. Oh my god, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh hell no, I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what each serves.

Listen to The Girl Friends. Trust me, babe. On the iHot Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast, that you are, that you are. From iHot Podcasts, in best case studios. This is Worshack, Murder at City Hall. Could this have happened in City Hall? Somebody tell me that. July 2003, Councilman James He Davis arrives at New York City Hall with a guest. Both men are carrying concealed weapons. And in less than 30 minutes, both of them will be dead.

Have everybody in the chambers of dogs, a shocking public murder. A scream, get down, get down. Those are shots. Those are shots, get down. A charismatic politician. You know, he just bent the rules all the time. I still have a weapon. And I could shoot you. And an outsider with a secret. He alleged he was effective flat down. That may have been not have been political. That may have been about six. Listen to Worshack, Murder at City Hall, on the iHot Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

“get your podcasts. Hi, it's Alec Baldwin. This season on my podcast, here's the thing I'm speaking”

with more artists, policy makers, and performers that compose a Mark Shaman. Once you've established that you have the talent, it's about the hang. It's the pleasure

of hanging out with the people that you're with. You know Robin I was always a great hang.

We would sit in kibits for hours and then eventually get around to the music. That's what I mostly think of when I think of him, the time together laughing. Lawyer, Robbie Kaplan. The great gift of being a lawyer is the ability to actually change things in our society in a way that very few

case at the right time and energy quality. Yeah, when there's the perfect example.

And journalist Chris Wipple, every White House staffer, they work in a bubble called the West Wing, and it's exponentially more so in the Trump White House. Listen to the new season.

“Up here's the thing on the iHeart Radio app or wherever you get your podcasts.”

This is the story of the murder of Lynn Harper by and this case of Stephen Truscott. Truscott. Truscott. Truscott. Truscott. Thank you. Oh, sorry. I'm nervous. Okay. What is it? Truscott. Truscott. Truscott. The podcast I listen to. Thank you, guys. All right. So on the evening, June 9th, 1959, small town of Clinton.

Represent, represent Clinton always. Yeah, we love Clinton. We love it.

Located near Lake, you're on about 200 kilometer. How far is that? If I could know I did, it's 200 kilometers. West of Toronto, the parents of 12 year old Cheryl Lynn, so we're going to call her Lynn Harper.

“Of began to worry when they are daughter didn't come home after her girl guides meeting.”

Around 11, 20 that night, her father, who's an officer on the Clinton base, reported her missing. It's like a base town. Earlier that evening around 7 p.m., Stephen Truscott, Truscott, Fuck, Lynn's, so Stephen is Lynn's 14 year old classmates. He'd given Lynn a ride home on the handlebars of his bicycle. Not home, sorry. He'd given Lynn a ride on the handlebars bicycle. And he's questioned by police because he was the last person to see her alive. And he said

he took her to the intersection of the country road and highway 8. He left her there. She started to bike. He started to bike away, stopped on a bridge, turned around, and saw her get into a grade 1959 Chevrolet with an out of province license plate. I don't know. Sorry. Sorry, I don't know.

“Kilometers. And that there was a lot of chrome on the car. So he sees her leaving in this car”

and getting into it. He bikes on. And two days later, on the afternoon 11th, searchers discover Lynn's body. A few tree branches partially covering her remains. And it's in a nearby farm woodlot, just off a tractor trail. So lightly wooded area known as Lawson's Bush on the outskirts of Clinton. It's just a little, you know, tree foresty area. Lynn had been raped and strangled with her own ploughs. So Stephen becomes the immediate and only suspect the 14-year-old.

Well, because he was the last person to see her. He said he had dropped her off and the parents said that she's not someone who would normally hitchhike, so they didn't believe him. And within two days of an investigation on June 12, 1959, Stephen's taken into custody and after about 10 hours of investigation at two, 30 in the morning, Stephen's charged with the first degree murder of Lynn Harper. Well, 14-year-old Stephen. It's then decided,

God, excuse me, that Stephen should stand trial as an adult, which means he could potentially be sentenced to either life and prison or execution. The prosecution case is based on the fact

that, because Lynn wouldn't hitchhike, they alleged Stephen never even made it to drop her off.

And in fact, it just had turned off into Lawson's Bush. It's actually assaulted her before killing her. So a fucking, there's a ton of witnesses saying the were about what they saw when they saw them that are children. It's like 11-year-old schoolmates, 14-year-old kids, and so both sides, the prosecution and the defense call these witnesses to say what they saw. So, of course, on the prosecution side, they're saying that the kid who was walking home, down the exact road, never saw

them ride their bike past, that kids who were hanging out at the bridge never saw them, and or saw Stephen alone. And so one girl, little girl, claimed that she was supposed to meet her self-meat him in the bush at the time that Lynn was allegedly killed. So he was supposed to be there anyways, and probably was there, is what she said. Now, did they do any kind of questioning of these children where they said, are any of you liars or any of your pants currently

telephone, it always ends up dolly-part and they're just like, that's not what I said.

Well, it's just so crazy because there's this really great talking memory about it that I'll

“get to, but they talked to some of the kids, and it's just like, remember the shit, these little”

kids are like, you know, before she was found, they're like, I saw Lynn, and this was what happened, I saw Stephen, and you get really excited and you want to be part of it, because you're 12, and you know, you're 47, either way, it's fun to be part of things or say like, you know, just get excited and spread rumors, then the police come and talk to you and say, we heard you said this, and they can't be like, no, I lied and made that up. You just go with it,

you go with it. Little kids then also believe themselves, these, you know, they they convince themselves that this is what they saw, and they know they'll get in trouble if they are lying and

they're just, you're like, well, the solution to that is lie more, right? That's always the thing.

My spanks have rolled down to them, though, let's see, like they've done it in a way that's now making me look worse. You know what I mean? Yeah, it's like a little just pushing my gut back here, and over this top of the spanks, in a way that, did you know that's the new look? That's a hot look in the lawn right now? Yes. Can I ask you, this might be my, it might be user error, because I'm always like, well, if my spanks, I should buy them in a size too small because then

they'll do it with a supposed to do it. That's not what you're supposed to do. Oh, okay. Well,

“then it's user error apologies to spanks. You guys are doing a great job. The best way to do it”

is you get the spanks that come, they're turtle max spanks. They just come right up here. God damn, they work so good. This is what I get for buying spanks in a spanks airport store. Literally, it's like, you know, you used to roll your socks down as a kid? Yeah, that's what's happening to my spanks. Well, up until this point, though, you were really holding your face together well, I feel like you were like, really, your core was engaged, and you were just like trying to

make it work. Thank you. Yeah. Okay. I was there. Well, it's still I also like to know the personal stuff. Yeah, I'm not going to lie about my gut situation. I mean, you can't. I can't. I want to lie about my gut situation every day, and I just shoot myself. It's just how it is, you know. Also, I mean, if we're going to be honest, part of my my little half sock that I'm wearing in these is just rolled down in a snow almost all the way to my socks match. Oh, yeah. Oh, shit. That's the most

uncomfortable, both of us need a minute to fix our situations. Jesus. Also, I'm covered. You know, listen, someone, I brought this rug from home, I said. It was the curtain. It's not working out,

“you know, it's how many people. And that's where the humor comes in of this podcast. Or does it?”

No, you don't listen. I leave. Oh, fuck. I walk out through the house. God, damn. With their microphone. Yes. swearing into the microphone. Okay. So part of the, okay, so part of their big theory, the prosecutions, and really what seems to have turned the case and made it

the strongest was okay. So the theory was that Steven never dropped Linoff as he claimed and

actually between seven and seven, 45 is when he killed her. So this time from a super important because pathologist John Peniston. Sure. Smell, spelled, smelled, spelled penis tan. Okay. Why don't you just pronounce it that way then? It's fun. I mean, listen. Look, I can't, I haven't grown up. Also is, what? Do it. Go. I don't want to go down the long slide of penis tan jokes. I just feel like, how many are there? I've got about 47 in the chamber right now. I'm not familiar.

No, no. So he pathologist John Peniston conducted the autopsy of Lin. He testifies that. So he does the thing where he figures out what she's eaten by knowing when, how much food has been digested when she died. So he said between seven, 15 and seven, 45 because of the food that she had eaten, that's when she died. That's his exact time, which even by today's standards is fucking insane. You can't do that. You can't figure that out. You mean that exactly? Absolutely not.

Okay. So it's kind of one of those bunk science things now, like, blood spatter in all this.

What happened to my fibers? Yeah. I love, I love when they find a fiber and then they're like this

“cat hair fiber matches this cat hair fiber. And walk 'em up. The fibers, the fibers, the red fibers.”

This is like a green carpet. I'm going to be as apartment. Okay, that a, that a, they also had she prints near the body and they say they seemed to match Stevens, but they hadn't taken any measurements or plaster cast of it. Hey, why bother? Just execute the 14 year old and get on with it. She's the skirt. Oh, that's going to be our tagline. Just looks like you. The shirts just get worse and worse with these too.

Can't wear that to Thanksgiving. The, the tattoos start out for that. Fuck. This is our job. I know. It's crazy. So good. I just eat cupcakes for a living on TV. No, this is pretty fucking awesome. Okay, the thing is we don't even do it right.

“Who's it? Okay, it's right. Where you, one of those ones, that like you bit and spit immediately?”

No, I ate the whole thing with the rapper on it. That way. You just keep chewing. It's spit. Oh, sorry. Okay. Professional professionals. As for the defense, they had their own child witnesses. Of course. Did you know, sorry. I just heard about this recently. Did you know the end of World War Two? Hitler had a child army that was fighting people? No. Did I dream that?

No, I think because so many the men of age were dead and they had lost so many lives. They were sending out, you know, like the Hitler youth, where they were really into exercising at 30s.

“They were just like put on a coat and grab a gun. Now you're going out there. Fuck. Pretty sure.”

Watch the history channel. It's not mine. It's not my area. Okay. Sorry. Go ahead. I just love the phrase child witness. Like, I'm already like, no, I don't need that. I don't need that witness. And then I was at the bridge. And out of here. So these child witnesses said that they had been honored. The bridge and actually had seen Stephen on the bridge.

And the first, the prosecutor was like, no way. You could have seen him from that far away. And then they went and

were like, oh, I see how you could have seen him from that far away. Now it all makes perfect. It makes perfect sense. Yet still we might execute you. Yeah. Don't worry about it. Yeah. And so that all checked out. Witnesses also noted that Stephen, who who went, who met his friends at my eight o'clock seemed totally normal when they saw him. And no one had seen Stephen entering or leaving the Witton area where Lynn was killed. Okay. So despite all of this on September 30,

1959, after a trial that lasted 15 days, the jury found Stephen guilty. What? At that time, and you know how they announced it? How? What if there was a child judge? It's like fucking

bugsy malone from the 80s. It's just children. Oh my god. Sorry, never be. I mean, I start now.

I mean, not a scenario. Karen. Okay. So the criminal code required that death sentence be imposed for murder. So the trial judge, imagining 14, the judge says to you, you're going to die by hanging. What? Death by hanging. He appealed his conviction unanimously dismissed the appeal. So then they, then they, they commute it to just life in prison. So Stephen's been the decade in prison and then he's enrolled in October 21st, 1969 at age 24. So he gets out and immediately

gets drafted into Vietnam. Sorry. That would be a bummer. Sorry. I'm just running bad scenarios in my head at all times. I'm sorry. I mean, that's so fucked. It's his whole life. You go to jail when you're 14 and you get out when you're 24. I know. But then Lynn died at 12. It's so hard.

all of Canada is like, that's like half and half who believes what happened, but he did it or he didn't

“do it. Right. Go ahead and take a poll off. Yeah. Yeah. You have a little piece of paper under your chair.”

Yes or no. Next to the gun. Only one. I know. Yes. Don't mistake the two. Yes, please. Whatever you do, I know you guys aren't familiar with guns. They're not pens. So Stephen goes. Lynn's under and assume name shines all publicity for three decades. He marries history children. Then in a 2000 episode of The Fifth Estate, which is a really fucking good show. I somehow knew that you guys would love it. Every article I read about this was

like The Fifth Estate. The Fifth Estate. And it was fucking Canadian show. Yeah. And so he finally

breaks his silence and he and he's on the whole show. Like Mary telling everyone what happened. Telling the stuff and all these like the kid witnesses are interviewed as adult witnesses. There's still kids. They're, it's all Benjamin Button's situation. Or there's one of the adult

“like, um, like a 40-by-year-old man. Jerry, focus. Please. You have to look into the camera.”

We told you seven times. Stop. What is it? It's you candy? Okay. So the Fifth Estate's investigation highlights series problems with the forensic evidence and show that police were too hasty and laying charges in two days. Yeah. So in 2006, around this time, the scientists are like,

wait a minute. We don't know, even now we don't know when food breaks down in the stomach,

because it's based on so many things, age, gender, diet, stress level. All these things. So one of the forensic dudes was like, uh, really all we can tell is what they ate. That's all we use this for at this point. So they don't even use it. And then it can, it can be, um, did, did, did, did, did. It can, other, uh, year and little bit, but, so this, the, the, the, the, Mr. penis can. What? What? What? All of that new landed at penis tan. Well, that's where everyone wants to

go. So, years later, uh, in like the sixties, penis tan tells says, yeah, it was probably wrong about that. It could have been as much as two hours later when she actually died. Dude. I know. Got it together. And then, other, so then these days, they examine the original evidence. And conclude that Lin may have died as late as 24 hours after being with Stephen. So it's a big window. We don't use that science anymore. Um, so, and originally, I don't want to keep saying penis

tanks, and I was an old joke. No, it's this point. You're, you're forced. I mean, in this, so Dr. Penison originally offered two different times. Originally he was like, could have been this time, could have been that time. And then it wasn't until they figured out when Stephen would have killed her that he settled on that time frame two. And it seems like he was like, had a change of hard at some point about not being a horrible person. And it's not like he's just as suggestible

as those child witnesses. He was a child forensic pharmacist. Oh, shit. This should not let eight

year old to be forensic pathologists anymore. Never again, do he hazard? Don't ruin it. No. Okay,

after, um, so trust cuts always maintain his innocence. He volocated in prison. He voluntarily submits to doing prison psychiatric probes, including truth serum and LSD. Wow, which I'm like, I'll do that to him. I mean, if you're a president, well, yes. But he was so

“adamant. I mean, I think of it. This is not a time when people were stoked about doing drugs.”

Well, as far as he knew, the sixties. Right. Like, not mystery drugs. Right. Yeah. But he was like, they were like, you know, if we give us to you and you actually did stuff, I don't know if you guys have been an asset before, but you're, you know, fucking talk about it. And you're going to laugh about it. Yeah. And you're a monster. And you won't end for like 12 hours. It's so irritating. Yeah. And you're in prison. And you're in prison. You're in prison. The last time, look, don't do

as it's so lame. But the last time I did it, long ago, I was laying in bed and I couldn't sleep all my friends were asleep. Every, all the fun had ended hours before. And I was laying in bed looking at spinning goofy faces. How fucking macroscopy is that? Macroscopy? Yes. The dog. The bummer. Yes. Like, can I at least see something cool? Spinning. And I was like, my arms crossed. Like, I'm so lame. I love that you're even in your, your a critic of your own fucking. Yes. This is too commercial.

me any drug you want. Give me all the acid. And I won't fucking disorder him. And I fall really

work. That's the true serum, right? It does on me. Let's find out right now. I'm going to take it. It's, it's awesome. It's, it's, it's acid. Oh, I should get them on. Okay. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So association and defense of the wrongly convicted, they work to get federal justice ministers minister. So to reopen the case, and on August 28th, 2007, 48 years after the original trial, the Ontario Court of Appeal unanimously overturns Steven's conviction, declaring the case of miscarriage justice.

“Half the crowd is applauding. Half the crowd is not applauding. Yeah, loudly. I have a really great ear for how many people are applauding at once. And I can tell it's 1500. Was it 15?”

Not 1503? Nope. Oh, it was actually 14 like 98 because that couple gotten fight. Yeah. They never made it. They couldn't make it.

He was like murder isn't funny. It's just like, you don't get it. They also talk about gas. Okay, miscarriage of justice and okay, this is a really big point of contention for the people who have the other 14 98 people, another couple gotten a fight too on your side. He, Steven's awarded 6.5 million in compensation. Holy shit. Yeah. And so clearly, people are pissed about that who believe he did it. Oh, yeah, as well as the fact that, you know, it's given, okay, okay, okay.

So the possibility of other subjects, suspects weren't looked into and that's one of the reasons. You got to have that money. So to the other suspects.

So Sergeant Barry, a rule wrote a book called a viable suspect and he zeroed on on the student who was a traveling salesman. And he was considered a person of interest in other violent cases. And he had a ton of connections, including similarities in the car that folks say that's good to shit out of me. That was very jarring. Yeah. Steven, stop it. So rubbing your mustache on a microphone. I'm sorry. Steven, that was particularly harsh. I didn't mean, I didn't mean it. It really wasn't. Oh, didn't you hear anything I'm saying? I screamed at our audience last night.

I told the millennials, I said the word stupified. I said the word stupified and like easily 100 children yelled back Harry Potter.

“I still don't think that's what they were saying. It was what they were you fucking kidding me because then when I said are you yelling Harry Potter?”

They all cheered and then I was like, that's why people hate millennials. Thomas thing I've ever it was fucking dumb. Did he know stupified was a word before Harry Potter? Whoa, you know what's going to happen? I think Harry Potter's here. He's so mad. Expecto stupified. Oh my god. It's okay. Yes, my god. Rug is ruined. It's just my god. All fired. You just flung water of my face.

This thing is falling apart. It's okay. I've actually spilled it on myself multiple times.

“Tonight. I knew that was going to happen. I just thought it would be me historically speaking.”

It's kind of me. Shit, so crazy. My thing. That was. I'm stealing your bed. You're not. Okay, the car is focused. Get it together. The car that this dude and he gave a fake name for the dude because he's dead and he didn't want to do traveling salesmen. Yeah. Okay. The car was similar. He owned a 1959 Chevy Bell Air. And the same. He was in this area. The evening Lynn went missing. He also said he would have known the Clinton area because he was a traveling salesman and he similar shoe shoe size. So he had he died

before the investigation. And then sorry. Okay. There was a farmer who owned the property where Lynn's body was found. And he said he saw strange car park near his fence the night of the girl going of lingoing missing. And the officer on duty, who was near the Royal Canadian Air Force base wasn't interested. And he also testified that the girl who said that that Stephen was supposed

keep telling them you saw the car. Can you change that for it to an hour before? She's 12. So she's like, can you tell me a thing like why? Because she, she wanted to sit with her. Yeah. Yeah. And the screwman was like, no, when I'm going to go tell on you. She's like, well, then you're not invited to my birthday party. It's fucking bananas. Another suspect. So there was a Air Force sergeant named Alexander Kalichuk. He was a heavy drinker history of sexual offenses, lived within 20 minutes

drive at the base. And Stephen and Lynn both lived at the base about three weeks before Lynn's murder. He had tried to lure a 10 year old girl into his car. I think a couple towns over it. In the mid 60s, the files uncovered that detailed that he had been psychologically evaluated as a sexual predator and potential killer. Wow. And he had two counts of indecent exposure on the record before ever even arriving in Clinton. Wow. Okay. He was waving it all around. Yeah.

“Swiss cheese. Swiss cheese pervert. I'm surprised so many people remember that incredible story.”

The best story of all time. Yeah. For those of you who don't know, there's a man somewhere in the east coast that likes to get into his car, not wear pants, hold up a piece of Swiss cheese, and trick women into looking at it and then he's jerking off behind it. We're not tricking you guys, right? The people who don't know this story, we're not tricking you. This is real. There's pictures. There's a fucking chewing it. Pictures and there's people who wear Halloween costumes of this man.

Look at all that. This is our gift to you for later. And then call us and sensitive. Yeah. I was just fucking for a nurse for Halloween. Wow. I got really angry. Girl, you are mad. Listen. Look. Look at that. All right. And then there was also another man electrician with a conviction for rape who worked regularly at the base and knew the harpers, Lynn's family. Okay. So tons of choices. Sons of choices. Take a couple extra days before. I mean, just roll it off.

“Steven one second. Yeah. So, okay. Oh, no. Okay. But here's the thing.”

Lynn's family, this poor family who's been through so much, including all these stuff with Stephen, and still haven't gotten justice. They still believe that Stephen was the murderer.

Yeah. And they also never told their aging father about the verdict and the money because they were like,

yeah, but of course not. So horrible. That's the murder of Lynn Harper. Oh, I have a photo of him in her as kids. Oh, really? There's that too much. That's not like a Stephen's deciding. That's Stephen. That's him. Yeah. He kind of looks like an adult. Yeah. He's a big kid for a 14 year old. And then let's look at Lynn. Well, baby. So that's that. Wow. Yeah. That's a I hope to God. I mean, like these days, it's very likely that someone can start a podcast

where they're like, I'd like to know what happened and then they could actually figure it out. Like people are doing that all the time now. Yeah. That'd be amazing. For sure. Someone did that. It's like authors being like, yeah, that was us in telling you. It was like a fucking asshole.

A podcast first. They're like, would you just read off that paper? That's right.

And we're like, start a podcast, maybe you can then. So doesn't know that hard. I just want to know the answer.

“I know. I hate those kinds of things. I know. That's why I do them is because I hate them and I love them.”

Yeah. No, I fucking. It's like a puzzle. Because I'm, yeah. Oh, it's all right. It's clear. I almost said. Okay, we're back. Are there updates for the story? There are a couple in the 2020 film Marlene tells the story of Steven's case and how his wife Marlene works tirelessly to clear his name. And then in 2024, Canadian author and Nobel laureate, Alice Monroe,

wondered that her husband could have possibly been involved in Lynn's murder. This came about amid the revelation that her husband had sexually abused her daughter, his stepdaughter, and that Alice had known about it. And then most importantly, very bones

covered this case, which you know is just going to be incredible. It's an episode called bugged.

That came out on August 30th, 2023. So definitely go check that out for a deeper dive, a smarter dive. I actually downloaded that episode because I so want to hear the detail. This is the one of the craziest cases like of all time. And I can't wait to hear those guys pick it apart. Same.

We have time for a, I think we don't have time. So we look next to the basis of like waiting at this. I just flashed you all my underwear. Okay, let me take someone out. We just want to hear a

“hometown murder now. Listen, hear some rules. We've learned this over the years. You have to listen.”

You can't read off a piece of paper. You have to tell it like it actually happened to you. You can't be super drunk. You can be lightly drunk. But you can't be like slurry or pausing drunk. We're like it's uncomfortable Thanksgiving drunk. We can't have that. It's fun if you have like a fun personality, but you don't have to have a huge personality. We prefer you don't. You know what? We've run out of time. Okay, bye, you're right. All right. And now I'm picking and I'm screwed. You guys listen.

Karen's letting me. I hear you. Karen's letting me pick now. And so don't fuck this up for me.

Yeah. It's all I'm asking. Don't wave your arm if you just have a half a game. We never have a dude.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you. Sorry. We're having a dude that's your sock of Shady's pointing. Uh-oh. He's got a big weekend. See what's going on. Thank you, Steven. Oh, no. Hi. What's your name? I'm Sean. I'm this for me. Sean. Okay, take center space. Oh, center stage. All right. So I love everyone. Sean holds on. We are there. All right. Where are you from? Deep right. I am from Battle of Miss Goka or like Battle of Ontario, Miss Goka. Awesome. Where is it on the

floor? Yeah, yeah. Okay. Okay. All right. So it's about, uh, yeah. Do you want to

“plummeters Toronto? Okay. All right. All right. So I don't actually remember the names of these”

people. Oh, Jesus. Well, then you're in the right place. Perfect. All right. So it involves a man from, uh, Brace Brajon, Ontario. Perfect. Uh-huh. So he moves to Toronto and, uh, he's a body builder and he wants to be like a fitness instructor and everything. Uh, and then he meets, uh, this, uh, high school dropout, uh, exotic dance to your drug dealer. Yes, right. Very well. Good job to a great start. Yeah. Here we go. And, uh, so they hit it off. They get together,

um, and then they start partying like there's no tomorrow cocaine everywhere. Just great times all around. Well, times. Okay. Uh, they end up actually fighting so much after a little while that they get kicked out of multiple apartments and, um, then eventually gets arrested

“or, um, up on charges for something. So he does the best thing he can do and he skips”

down to go and live with mom and dad and he brings the, the woman with her. The mom and dad don't like him or don't like her. Then they kind of like him. They don't like the exotic dancer drug dealer. Okay. Yeah. I know. Go figure. I mean, uh, so from there, uh, after a little while they get their own place and then they get kicked out and they, yeah, they bunch of other places. Uh, it was actually so bad they're fighting that, uh, a landlord gave him $900 to

move out. But it's never happened in the history of a apartment. No. I'm going to try that

next time I want to break a lease. Good luck with that. Um, uh, they actually ended up having kid at this point. Uh, so then, like I said, they were fighting. Um, she actually assault, uh, got a charge with assault on him because he threatened to call child services, uh, because she was apparently a bad mother. Uh, so his fatherhood had nothing to do with that. No. Okay. Nothing. Okay. Um, so, uh, she starts getting bored of him, starts sleeping around, uh, and then actually

develops a plan to move. Uh, but they were behind on rent so much that he actually had to go to court and like do a bunch of legal stuff. So she got her, she got her shit together and, uh, planned to move out. She had on the day that she was planning to leave, uh, he had to go to court. But he came home early, caught her and, uh, they got fighting, obviously. As they do. As they do and, uh, what ended up happening was he ended up hitting her in the

head about three or four times. After the first time, she actually tried to block the, the blows

and ended up breaking some of her, uh, hand bones. Right. So from there, uh, uh, she's obviously dead after the fourth or fifth blow. Oh, okay. Right. I'm sorry. It's more alert. She dies. Okay.

five gallon drum buckets and matching lids. And, uh, now he's, uh, working for construction company at this point. So he's, uh, he goes out, puts the body in the trunk with the four, the four bins

“and drives out to a former customer's place. It's a cottage. No one's around. It's March. I believe”

at this time. And, uh, so yeah, no one's around. Cut's up the body and puts in the pales, calls a friend says, hey, man, I got to get out of my place. Can I store some stuff in your store? No, no, no. Can I store some buckets? Don't worry, the lids batch. Don't worry,

it gets worse. Oh, always, always. So while he's working on another job at a different cottage

with the guy, he, uh, ends up sneaking, sneakily building a crate in which to store these four buckets from there. Uh, so over the course of the time, he builds this crate, puts the buckets in, seals it up, leaves three years later, the crate was noticed by the moment. Where was it in the backyard? Not like so is like, uh, it was kind of like over, uh, so there's a porch kind of thing, and there was like a crawl space. Yeah. So next to the house. And, no, it was under the house,

under the porch. So he was working on the house. He was like, oh, yeah, I fixed that. I fixed that thing, and he needed me to fix. A dead body into the house. Yeah. So, you're like, yeah, yeah,

“I'm sorry. That's what I'm saying. Uh, so, yeah, like I said, three years later,”

uh, the homeowner knows this crate, uh, NES, uh, this his handyman around, from the, uh, that works around the place. Hey, what's, what's this crate doing? He's like, I don't know. Uh, cracks it open, and smell it out. Uh, huh? Uh, yeah. I'm like, I'm so who, uh, please write now, say, I'm that handyman. Yes. Are you, if you have to lie, it's the best ending of all time. I'm that handyman. Yes. Yes.

No, no, no, no. So he, he got really stupid with, uh, because he said, uh, the, the, the guy that killed the, the, his, uh, girlfriend. He actually used his, her cell phone for calls, solder clothes, uh, because he, he did initially say that she just ran away. Right. But that, so they eventually tracked it back, back to him, uh, and he was convicted in May 2013, uh,

with for, uh, he got, uh, charged with light, uh, second degree murder. So that's automatic death,

or not, don't, sorry. It should be automatic life in prison, uh, with, uh, chance of parole after 17 years. So he's eligible for role in 2013 or 2030. Well, we're good. Wow. So that's,

“that was great. That's what the murder. That was amazing. Now you don't have to read that one,”

because I emailed it to you. Oh, thank you so much. Great job. Yes. That's how you tell a hometown murderer. You're not going to just take your time and tell us. I'm just kidding. I'm giving you a ship. Yeah. Okay, we're back. This episode originally was titled live at the Sony Center in Toronto for reasons that are obvious. But if we were naming it today, based on something from the show, I love this one. Maybe we would call it fun to panic to early

to panic, but it would be fun to do it. But it would be, we'd, we'd have a good time with it. Or, uh, my description of American Kit Cats, a flat brown candle. So gross. And of course, expect those to apply when you cast your Harry Potter spell hilarious. So good. All right. Well, that was another episode of rewind. That was all the way back in 2017. Thank you guys for listening.

Let's say goodbye from the Sony Center back in 2017. This has been really incredible. I mean,

it really is so fun. It's so cool that we get to do this. Exactly. And you want to come and see us do it. Yeah, it's ridiculous. It really is. We're lucky. We fucking love Canada. Here's our awesome support of our last one. Thank you so much. Thanks for coming out. Thanks for getting the tickets. Thanks for making that for thanks for listening for as long as. Thank for

guys. Thank you guys. So stay sexy and don't get murdered. Elvis, do you want a cookie?

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murder at City Hall on the iHeart Radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Sometimes a suspect is found guilty before a verdict is ever read in court. On the WickedWords podcast, I talk with the writers who dig deep into the cases that changed history, including Marsha Clark, who went from prosecuting one of the most famous murder cases to writing crime fiction. It doesn't matter that you didn't take part in the murder. If you were at

the scene at all, you're guilty of murder. Every week, the real story is revealed. Join us every Monday for new episodes of WickedWords. Listen to WickedWords on the iHeart Radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.