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To learn more about how Core Wave powers the world's best AI, go to coreweave.com/ready for anything. You definitely have a distinct style now, it's awful, but it's distinct. Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. Scott, you're still on the road.

How's it going? Good, San Francisco was good, LA was great, with Tetsurundas, Miami was good, love Miami. You're a shot town?

“And now, yeah, what do you call the city of big shoulders?”

Yes. We always love being air. So it's the most grateful little big city in the world, like I just know it's going to go well tonight, because they're like, "Thank you for coming here." I know, it's like Minneapolis, right?

It's Minneapolis. Yeah, just so happy, and I went to a steakhouse last night with my closest friend Adam since the fourth grade. Chicago is one of my favorite cities, it's really a lovely place. I like all cities.

I like all cities. I love Chicago.

I always am happy to be there, and then you'll be in New York.

How exciting. Is that the last stop on your parade? We've got a couple, we have, by far, our most impressive Gassu shagun nameless, but I'm super excited about that. Good.

It's sold out a big theater. Right. Is that the final one? Is that the final one? That's the last one.

Yay. Well, how exciting. How good. Get ready to do it in the fall with me. Aren't you excited?

But that's not for a while. It's not for a while. It was resting time. Anyway. I had a nice weekend of children's activities, children's activities.

It's like, it's all his left, his preschools. We had all his friends from preschool over for a giant run around the yard and scream party with tiny bagels. I had another one last night, another barbecue. I cleaned the outdoor Scott.

I'm like one of these, and then I ended up having. I'm one of these people that does the yard, essentially. I have to get it ready for the summer, and I end up having discussions with other dads about yard things, like different landscape being, different construction things. So I really am the dad.

I recognize this week.

So just so you know, yard work is basically, it has nothing to do with the yard work.

It's about escaping your family. Oh, I see. Do you got it? You got it for good this should out. You're not, first off, you're not, it's not that you're in the yard work.

You just want to wait from the house. No, it's actually, it's not because my kids help me. I have my kids do it with me. And so we fill the bird feeders. I have a different way to fill the kitty pool.

We do the sprinklers together. You know, I have saw. I haven't carried bags of a bird sea. So I, I employ my children into this, and they do a good job. They do a great job.

I have. My friend Chris Nelson, down in Florida, was saying how he taught his son over the weekend, how to use, what are those, like, they look like a chain saw, but you used him to mow a head, just sheer. I don't even know what this is.

Cheers. Cheers. Not scissors, but I like a lecture. They're called shears, electric shears. Okay.

So he said he taught his eight year old son how to do that. I'm such a bad dad, like I'm so incompetent. I don't know how to, my kids are not going to know how to do anything. I teach my kids how to do, we did the hoses, we replaced all the hoses. I do it with a kid.

I got an electric shear, and I took my son out back, and one of us almost lost. I told him, like, there's a reason I don't teach this stuff.

“You know, if you want to come to my yard, I will teach you.”

Yeah, that sounds really appealing. The other thing I'm doing this week, besides some tobacco stuff and this and that is,

I love that.

I think that's perfect for you.

Yeah. I like to. I love the wippy gold. I like the whole team. Yeah.

And by the way, they give great TV. That is, that is an outstanding. Mm-hmm. You put great on it.

“You've had great times when you're there.”

You see. They're so nice to me, and I like the mix, and they used to bring in like a dumber public end that they could all scream at, kind of what CNN does. Let's bring on a racist and have a much of be-league progressive scream at them. Right.

That's the, the formula there. They now have smart concerns. Alyssa. Yeah, she's great. She's great.

I think they've done a great job. Which I wear? You definitely have a distinct style, not awful, but it's distinct. Well, I am a guest host of the view. I think I'll be good.

I'd be interesting. I really enjoy them.

I always have a good time there.

I even was like, oh, the declining broadcast. I'm like, that's a good show. That's a solidly fucking good show. Nothing just as an author. Nothing moves books like in general podcasts.

But if you're looking for quick hits. You and Bill Mar. The view, Bill Mar, and actually a close third, would be morning Joe. A lot of people still watch morning Joe. Yeah.

Anyway. Well, anyway, let's get to the news. Yeah. I'm excited. I'm going to try not to make a penis joke.

We just a week to go before Maine's speaking penis is Maine Senate primary. Graham Plattener, the presumptive Democratic candidate is facing his latest controversy. Multiple outlets reported over the weekend that Plattener's wife told a campaign last year that her husband since sexual explicit text is several women outside of the marriage. By the way, this campaign person had a falling out with Plattener and has dropped a dime, which is his own ethical considerations.

Plattener's calling these reports gossip from a former staffer and accused the media of journalistic malpractice as of this recording. None of the women involved in the text exchanges have come forward. Plattener's wife Amy Gertner released a video, which I thought was fascinating.

“And I think that's a little bit over the weekend defending her husband and their marriage.”

Let's listen because it was really quite something to listen to. It makes me really angry, disappointed, and I find it really shameful that there's a group of media outlets and people who are willing to spread gossip. Instead of talking about real issues that Graham is running on, like healthcare and education and child care. As I said, it's the, you know, this country, this has been a controversial campaign. You know, he reportedly has an active hand on kicks, a private messaging drop sometimes used for sexing.

He's faced scrutiny, of course, about is Nazi symbol tattoo. He later expressed regret and covered it up. They were posts from a deleted Reddit account, reset all manner of sexual jokes about sexual assault. And he's also apologized for that. It's a really interesting issue, and lots of people disagree on this.

I'll tell you what I think in a second, but there's Plattener appears to be the real chance of unseating Republican Susan Collins.

And this is the zombie of all senators. He's been leading in recent polls. I personally, I'm going to just very quickly say, I think voters don't care about this. I don't, and I thought his wife handled it well. I have others.

I had an argument with Amanda this weekend. She doesn't like though Nazi tattoo. She doesn't like this. I feel as if if the husband and wife are working out, it remind me a little when Hillary Clinton did. I should I stand by my man when he had those Jennifer flowers.

Things reminds me a little bit of that. Turn out to be pretty good president and not every thing. Not, of course, the monochrome and see stuff, but it's a really interesting question. I don't get bothered by it as much. None of it.

“I think he's as Amanda Littman correctly said.”

He's someone who had a drinking problem as a Marine. Probably got that tattoo. Has mental health challenges, which he's trying to overcome. Marriage problems, which he's his wife is insisting. They're going to counselors and overcoming.

I'm not so sure in the era of Trump, this matters at all. So what do you think? Look, okay, every election is a choice. Not a marriage proposal. We're not hiring a priest.

We're hiring a senator. Do you think that do you want to make sure that women's rights aren't continue to be rolled back? Do you want a more responsible economic policy? Do you want different approaches to labor that raise the wages of nurses and students? Do you want something regarding fiscal sanity?

I want to stop, have a check against the unfettered unprecedented corruption. But we're going to talk about fucking tattoos and sexting. I mean, the obsession with personal purity has become a luxury belief. And it folks, if your house is on fire, you don't ask whether the firefighter has problematic DMs.

You don't go after media.

You don't say this is gossip. You don't say these are texts. He said it was, it was journalistic malpractice. Guess what? These texts are accurate.

Right. The reporting has been accurate. The response should be the following. I am an imperfect man. I have demonstrated terrible judgment on several occasions in my marriage.

And I have a great marriage. What about you? What about you? Are we going to continue to have one strike in your own? I'm a Jew.

I don't love a taught-in-conf tattoo. Okay. If he gets drunk one night and gets a stupid fucking tattoo. The fact that he's trying to protect our liberties the next day, it might be blown up by an IED.

He gets a hall pass.

“So, okay folks, if you want to keep applying purity tests,”

we end up with an incompetent running against a 9/11 denial in Los Angeles. We're not going to have any candidates running. So, one stopped the purity tests. And two, the platter campaign. It's not the crisis that brings people down.

It's their inability to own it. I fucked up. Did you watch his wife's thing? I thought it was, it reminded me a lot of the Hillary, remember when Hillary Clinton and Hillary said down when they sat down together?

Yeah. On 60 minutes? Yeah, it was really interesting. To me, it had a lot of echoes of that. I thought, you know, someone said to me like,

"Oh, she looks like someone who's wife's a nun." I'm like, "No, I think she seems to not be in denial." She understands his problems.

“And I think it just reminded me a great deal of that.”

And there's, you know, as a person you can have, as a personal thing, you know, comments about people. On a political thing, I'm like, I want to talk about this idea of imperfect allies at you.

And I've talked about, obviously, I'd heard it first from Sarah McBride,

but over his representative, Sarah McBride, who has plenty of reasons to be angry to people in isn't. She's a writer named David Gait posted about it on Substack. Let me read a quote. "Working with someone toward a shared goal does not require

believing they're morally perfect. And Clara's believing the goal itself matters enough to justify strategic alignment." He goes on to say, "The plan is on fire, well, as you noted, just now, Scott, while many people are still conducting background checks on one another's vibes." So, talk about that concept, because it's a really,

it's a really difficult one for many people to get around. This guy, many people supported him. Others were like, "No, we have to have background checks." So, what do you think about that?

“Can people get to that idea of, I guess, forgiving people for their imperfections?”

Or... One of the reasons we're seeing a crash in birth rates is a lack of dancing. And that is, a dancing is a key component of our key mating ritual. And when you dance, typically it helps if you drink a little bit. The anti alcohol movement is hurting it, but more than anything.

And there was a wonderful TikTok on this by some young men.

And I thought this was so powerful.

People have a camera on them all the time. 19-year-old men don't want to dance, because they're worried about, or they don't want to take risks, like dancing, like approaching a potential expressing romantic interest, because they're worried one false moving you're out. Everything in a digital world.

So, unless we move to at least some basic notion of, as our digital world increases and everything we've done is going to be recorded and potentially used against us. We have a little bit more grace. And what's interesting here is that I just hope the same thing holds. And that is, if the Republicans decide the best candidate for a Senate seat in Texas, is someone whose wife divorced him on biblical grounds, if they can...

And who has a history of... And if we can decide that this guy can have his finger on the button and be the most powerful person in the world, while he's banging adult movie stars while his wife is home nursing. And to a certain extent, I'm kind of like, I don't care if the pilot is a good person. I want someone who's really good at flying the fucking plane.

Yeah. So, I think the same thing needs to go to our politics. I just hope that the same... What I'll call focus on perceived effectiveness is the same for Democrats. I am still ripship angry at Senator Gillibrand who thought a seven-minute run for president

was worth kicking Senator Al Franken out. The Democrats want to walk around and say, "Well, we have our dignity." Okay. Hold on to your dignity. As a 15-year-old has her pelvis broken because she's forced to carry a child to turn.

Is there something that there should be a line like, obviously? I think at some point... Yeah.

“Let me put it this way. If Graham Platinum was, you know, it ended up that he was kind of fond of wearing a white hood”

and was constantly engaging in anti-Semitic behavior. That tattoo isn't an errand mistake from a youthful soldier. It's a pattern. The corruption of the Trump family is a pattern. This is not. This speaks to their character, but folks, all of us have made mistakes.

I mean, okay, Barack Obama doesn't appear. We can't see defined a mistake on president Obama. I can't. Okay. But you know what I mean, scandal.

Powerful men are under the illusion that they mistake kindness for sexual interest

and as they become more powerful power corrupts and they're more likely to believe that they're immune from standard norms and engage in stupid, stupid, reckless behavior. By the way, more women do that than they get credit for. I will argue that it infects a lot more men than women. But, you know, Secretary Known was banging on number two on government property.

Yeah, she did a lot of work for that, yeah. She counts for 10 men. But, oh man. Look, I saw this and I was like, okay, at one point, at one point, I'm hoping we've passed the purity test on the Democratic side.

But, more than anything, I want to call the Platinum campaign and say, "Oh, not attacking." You stop attacking them. Don't say it's gossip or it's not accurate reporting. It's been corroborated.

“I think the point they were trying to make is shouldn't we be focusing on the important issues?”

And that's all they needed to say. I think that sex first part should have been removed, right? Just say, you know what, we get why people might stare at this. It feels like a traffic accident and it kind of is. But let's focus on the real matters.

I have a question. Do you think we're in perfect allies? In perfect allies.

Yeah, like people you don't always agree with everything.

But the other thing. I think you, I think that, I mean, the reality is, Kara, is I'm a, we're both progressives. And the fact that we're doing the disagree on things, yeah. Yeah, where the real progress needs to be

is between moderate Democrats and moderate Republicans. I mean, if the two, you know, on almost every major issue, you and I are within two basis points of each other in terms of actually what we believe. We might believe in tech, you know, we might have differences around text and tone or whatever. But what really, what we really need, I mean a couple things.

One, I think this is, we have to from a young age start thinking, all right, folks. Unless you want to live a life with a fake user account and VPN for fear you ever do anything wrong. We're going to have to demonstrate more grace with each other. The Democrats applying these purity tests to themselves is just like that the Republicans are just laughing that we would do is like people be naughty, like people be naughty.

Have at it. But the thing that really, the planer campaign, Graham planer should do the following. I've had, I've demonstrated terrible judgment numerous times in my professional and personal life. I've also served my country, I think I'd be a great senator. And by the way, I have a fantastic marriage.

Yeah. So have out of folks.

“If you want to engage in this stuff, I realize it's titillating, have out it.”

Yeah. All he's doing in his campaign or doing is keeping the story alive by denying it and by attacking the media. I don't think there's anything wrong with the media reporting this because, well, I do have a, I have to say. I'd like to know, I'd like to know a little more about this campaign person who keeps dropping dimes on this guy and what her agenda is. I have to say she's been doing it a lot.

She wants to angry. She's mad. And I want to know, I'd like to know about her in specifics. Also, that's what I would say the media needs to do a little bit more because I need to understand what the sources motivations are. And it's she's not here to protect us.

I don't think. Anyway, let's move on. Self-help podcaster Jay Shetty has signed a deal to bring a video version of his show exclusively to Spotify. And Netflix, another one of these deals, which is interesting.

The deal is reportedly over worth over a hundred million dollars over multiple years who knows.

Shetty and his previous partner, I heart media parted ways. They could not come to terms. This is something happening. Obviously, Scott and I went through a bunch of this, not this amount of money. But it's a really interesting.

There. I hit it. But over five years, we're getting more than this. Oh, okay. And that's why we're in perfect allies.

Thank you. Yeah, we're pretty high on the newslist this week. I was noticing we're moving up. We still haven't passed the Megan Kelly, but we will. Are coming for you, Megan.

Are coming for you, Megan. And not like that way. In any way, physically or. No, in the Apple podcast.

He took it. Let's be clear.

So you don't make us show out of it.

So, but talk about these deals because they're really, because you can't go on YouTube. It's all of them, right? That. And he did it the normal way, which is an eye heart deal. You could do those.

There's a bunch of companies like this. But now this was a, this is for Spotify and Netflix, which is interesting. It's Spotify had tried, you know, the rogue and thing. Obviously, they did sign a bunch of deals that didn't work out. You know, and so talk a little bit about this.

How do you look at this market right now? What are these indicate to you? Well, first off. Let me just say with Jay. I'm really happy for him.

I don't know him well, but I know him. I've been on his podcast a couple times. I think he's a lovely man. And I think he does a good job. And essentially what he realized is the most valuable media in podcasting isn't sports.

Like it is on cable TV. It's loneliness. He figured out how to monetize the largest market in America. And that is people who need a friend. And so.

Okay. So I'm happy for Jay. I think he does a great job. And by the way, I cannot get over. And I think it's total bullshit.

All the hate that Jay and Mel Robbins get. They get a lot. And it's like, okay, don't listen to their podcasts. They're not bad. Yeah, that's how I feel.

I don't, I'm not a big fan of. I mean, I like them. I like Mel personally, but I just, I get why people find it annoying. It's a little bit fine. Don't listen to it.

I was literally an elevator. And someone says, do you know Mel Robbins? I find her very annoying. I'm like, okay. Don't listen.

That's what I said. But it's literally not how of nothing. If you go on TikTok.

I mean, the reality is any best selling author.

If you say best selling author is full of shit. You get elevated in the rating. So people are shit posting every best selling author to get another 70 bucks from, from fucking TikTok. Have at it.

But I've never understood the hate for Jay and Mel.

“I think they're both nice people doing their best, doing good work.”

And if you don't like the work, which I understand, it's not for everybody. You know, the whole kind of monster. Yeah, no, I'm not a fan of the self-help stuff. Yeah, fine. Then don't listen.

I'm fine. Yeah. But there's two things here. This dynamic that's colliding is the following. The fastest growing out supported medium is not even.

It's not even YouTube in terms of revenue or or meta. It's podcasts. They think that I think the ad revenue is going to be up 21% this year on podcasting. In addition, 40% of, I think about 20% of ours and 40% of property markets, pods, are listened to on a TV because they're streamed off of YouTube.

So essentially what a podcast is, it's a television show for 10% of the production value or costs. So the means of production of TV is being arbed into podcasting. And now 55% of Americans have listened to a podcast recently. So in addition, the intimacy of the relationship advertisers really like and the CPMs

for pivot are $45 of CPMs for CNN or 13. And then you combine it with the following.

“There's this dirty secret of podcasting called the RSS feed.”

And slowly but surely you build up subscribers. And every time a show comes out, it's automatically downloaded to an iPhone. And it's counted as a listen. So the people who've been in it for three, five, 10 years as you have who have built large RSS feeds have moats.

So what you have is a series of acquirers going we need growth. Let's go find a podcast and a small number of podcasts that actually have large RSS feeds. Because you cannot, you know, when landmen comes out, it's a hit overnight. It's hard for a podcast. If you look at the top 10 podcasts, even in any category,

they're usually the original gangsters or the people who've been around for a while. You're absolutely right. So you have demand and you have sequestered or pretty big moats, which all adds up to large acquisition prices relative to the revenues.

I bet shade has 10 to 20 million a year.

So he's getting sold at 10 to five times revenues, which is a lot. But you're about to see, and we've been predicting this. And I'm talking our own book here, but I've been saying this for the last two years. They're just when Spotify, I heart, serious, you know, in James Murdoch, go looking for podcasts.

There aren't that many of scale. It is the cost structure, and which people don't understand. And it is television, because our YouTube audience revenues are growing pretty smartly. And it's a really interesting way to deliver news. You know, it's what people want, which is why you're saying the potification of network news.

“I just don't think it's going to work. I think you either just have to go this way or not.”

I don't think you can switch that audience over because they're older, and they like the way it is. So you're going to see these declines, like you see at CBS, because they don't like the new stuff you're doing.

But I agree, I think it's interesting, and they can actually usually make the money back. The foregoing of YouTube versus Netflix is a really interesting, and it'll depend on what your product is at any one time. Whether you want to sort of be in the safe harbor or Netflix spotify, or you want to be out in the open, in a YouTube Google world, essentially.

“Which I think people can mix and match, too, by the way, which is what's great about it, right?”

Presumably. All the most powerful. Oh, I'm seeing your giant hand there. Look at that. He put your big hand up there. Oh, oh. I'm very self-conscious of my hands. I have my mother's hands.

My hands. In the competition for my worst feature, it is the Olympics. I mean, there's a lot of competitors. Yeah. But my hands are right up there. I'm very self-conscious of my hands. That's what I don't worry.

They're perfect.

Anyways, so Netflix, I think, is the most powerful media company in the world, or traditional media company.

And they're getting into podcasting. And overnight, they're going to be able to, whoever they decide to distribute or acquire overnight, God podcasts is going to be. I mean, they'll be the new king and queen makers of podcasting. Yeah.

I thought it was bad news for I heart. I'll tell you that. I think that's right. I don't think I heart. I heart is a company that's gone. I think through bankruptcy once or twice.

And they have to be economically rational. They don't have access to cheap capital. So they, if I heart shows up and spotify and Netflix show up to a bidding war, You go with that. I don't know who wins.

I just know I heart loses. I heart can't justify the valuations. These guys can justify, you know, even a serious.

“Basically, I think you're going to see Spotify and Netflix take the whole value of the podcast”

ecosystem up.

And now like that, if your podcast does a 10 million downloads a month,

you're worth four times the podcast that does five million. Because it is so hard in this environment to find scale. It's very similar to cable TV and the sense that there's a small number of personalities who extract the majority of the economics. And it's the same as podcast.

Absolutely. But I want to finish where I started. I'm really happy for Jay. I like it when people, he's been in the business for 10 years. He's a nice man.

He has worked for him. Good for him. Yeah. Well, just don't listen to him if you don't like him. That's my feeling on a lot of things.

That's right. And I've been sexting in related news. On chicks. Kicks is journey. Can you tell me?

Can you tell me? Beautiful. I definitely pick the dirty one. I'll just take the dirty one. Kicks is dirty.

I know anything about how would you even know that? I know all these sites. I don't use any of them. Really, do you go on and talk about you? You offer to power wash other lesbians back yard.

You little saucy makes you. Scott, I fixed my power washer this weekend. I was very excited. So just on that note before we go. I think the new thing a guy asked me for dating advice.

He's like, I'm never going to graduate from college.

What did we'll ever be able to find a woman? And I'm like, I think the new sexy is blue collar romance. And that is no poetry. Don't send a car for her. Fix her fucking refrigerator.

I think that gets women really hot. I could look at a woman's stressors. And treat them like they're your enemy. Fill up her car with gas.

“All right. Okay. I think if you want to get a woman, I think humor's the ultimate”

affidisiac with women behind maybe money. But I think a decent runner-up is to look at a woman's acts of service. And if you know how to fix it, you know, move your girlfriend. Show up and fix the air conditioner. Like attack her problems like they're your enemies.

I like it. Self help from Scott Galaway. Okay, Scott. Let's go in a quick break. We come back big IPO news from Anthropik.

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That's joinDeleteMe.com/pivot code pivot. Scott, we're back with breaking news. Anthropics just confidentially filed its IPO with the SEC, it is not disclosed the size or terms the offering. I'm excited for you to read it for me and tell me what's in there. But before that Anthropics hit a major milestone last week, passing OpenAI to become the most valuable AI start up in the world.

The company announced a $65 billion funding, rather than a $65 billion very close to very close at the top. To put things in perspective, open AI announced a $730 billion value. You should back in February, but it took the company to a rather decade to reach that number. It just keeps escalating. Anthropics, which has found five years ago, is beaten in the valuation in half the time.

Did anyone see this coming? Scott Galaway did. Let's listen to Scott's prediction from February. As we sit here today, I actually think that Anthropics, or in the next 12 months from this one of our predictions, is going to be worth more than OpenAI. Very well done.

“What does this valuation mean for Anthropics IPO, as well as OpenAI and SpaceX?”

By the way, SpaceX is now targeting an IPO valuation of $1.8 trillion after feedback, advisors and investors according to Bloomberg. That's a step down from the initially reported two trillion. It's still too much. Anyway, so what do you think?

You've got that one right, and we'll be looking at the filing when we get to be able to see it. But we don't know a lot yet. I don't think any company in the world has the momentum right now of Anthropics. It was built in a genius move. They went after the enterprise market.

I mean, the pivot, you have never seen a number two.

This viciously become the number one this fast. You've never seen hurts overtake. You've never seen avis overtake hurts this fast. You've never seen Pepsi overtake Coke like this this fast. The thing that's so impressive about this isn't the valuation.

It's the speed. Google took 20 years to reach a trillion dollars. Anthropics got there in five. It was founded in 2021. And if it had been founded in Amsterdam, it would be one of the five most valuable companies in Europe.

And it did it in five years. I mean, it's not capital formation. It's financial teleportation. Five years zero to a trillion dollars. Yeah. So we keep talking about how AI might transform the world.

Maybe maybe not, but it's definitely transforming capital formation. And I mean, the one advantage America has is that we will do these 60 billion dollars rounds after two or three years. And in Europe, they just don't have that type of capital formation. I want you to give me the downside, because you definitely called this. But what would be the worry for you of maybe all three IPOs or this one?

What would be the warning signs or something you would pay attention to?

Because you're not always fully like up until the right as a person.

These stocks in the collective hallucination around the valuations here. Uh-huh. One or more of these stocks is going to be out 40 to 70 percent. And it's going to send the US and the global economy into a recession.

The technology will survive. These valuations won't. There's just, I'm sorry, SpaceX at 100 times revenue is, you know, open AI at what's going on at 20.

Every big company we follow has in the last 10 years been off between 40 and 70 percent in a 12 month period.

That's fine. That's part of the cycle of high growth companies up and down. The difference here is that we've been bet the entire economy on these magnives in 10. 93 percent of our GDP growth is coming from AI capex. So when these companies, you know, they would say, if the American economy sneezes, the world catches a cold, we're going to catch fucking ammonia when the expectations.

And MIT professor just came out with a study saying 95 percent of CFOs aren't seeing the ROI on their investments in AI. We noted last week with the Uber COL, right, talking about it. So the danger here is the following.

“Folks, I don't think, I think anthropic is the only one of these three that has a reasonable shot at trading above its IPO price 12 months out.”

There's just gravity, no basketball player has ever been in the air for more than one second. For some reason, one second is the limit. None of these companies can justify their valuation unless they are able to literally destroy the labor market. I just got off the podcast with the CEO of Lily and I said, AI as it relates to drug discovery, underhyper, overhyped. This is a measure guy and he's like overhyped. The incentives from Amazon that the more token to use, the more will compensate you.

But it's about to go away in the first big company that announces we're cutting back our AI spending. You know, you're going to see the GDP of Germany come out of the market and unfortunately the US market. You know, we used to say is frothy because of that because of that. We're now concentrated at the entire US economy. It's a bet on 10 companies. You know, I have to say months ago, Mark Cuban said there's going to be a point where tokens are being more expensive than people.

And he wanted me to ask Dario that question. He was like, I was interviewing him at an offsite thing and he's like, that's the question. When do people cost less than tokens and tokens are getting to expensive, which is interesting. Anyway, we'll see what happens, but I'm excited for you to read it for me. All right, let's go on a quick break when we come back some updates on America's 250th celebration.

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That's three months free payroll@ Gusto.com/pivot. One more time, Gusto.com/pivot. Scott, we're back with more news. America's 25th birthday will now be a mega rally apparently. President Trump called for canceling the concert series at the planned event after several musicians dropped out. Instead, because they were told it was nonpartisan, it's obviously not nonpartisan.

Instead, Trump suggested he should headline the event calling himself the number one attraction anywhere in the world. But there's a lot, you know, and now his name is going to be named off the Kennedy Center, a judge's order. This name to be taken down again. A lot of performance stuff, but still irritating. Any predictions for the 250th celebration, it feels like no one's any closer to the key is not backing down on celebrating himself, including a 250 dollar bill. Scott Bess and his soil themselves once again.

So, thoughts? Yeah, you know, it's obnoxious and we'd like to think that it's bad for him. But, you know, I hate to admit it to some of the things about Browns a lot. You could make an argument that the most successful consumer brand of the last decade isn't Tesla Apple or Nike, it's Trump. And, you know, he's put it out. He's used the presidency to think that's the right analogy.

It used to be a public office, and now it's increasingly an entertainment franchise. Yeah.

“And I think he has, I just think Democrats like Robert McNamara said, if you wanted to feed an enemy, you have to empathize with them.”

There's just no getting around it. The guy has an incredible feel for branding and marketing.

And the product is awful. It is, it is like the greatest brain, what he's been able to do with this shitty product. Yeah. And it says I all stick the water. It's, it really is, it really isn't incredible.

I think this is quite frankly, I think this comes and goes. I don't think it's a big story. What do you think? I don't, I think it's, it makes us all feel bad about America on the 250th anniversary. I mean, I'm going to be somewhere far away from Washington. And I just think, him, I think all these, these artists pulling out was interesting. That, you know, they were like, you know, they, I think they see what you're going to Vermont.

Yes, I'm going. That's right. I'm going to Vermont. Did I get that right? You did.

Oh, my God. Stereotypes for a reason. Finally, it's rebuilt there at their bar, they had a barn house. And it was going to fall down and they rebuilt it. And it's very lovely. And so we're going up there.

That's where we go. I can't believe I got that right. You totally got that right. Oh, my God. Anyway, I'll drop around and you got the dog guard for the German Shepherd in the back of the soup. No, I don't have a dog. I would like to have a dog, maybe.

But they mess up my beautiful yard work. So cats don't mess up yard work. They just bring in chipmunks into the house. No, I think it's just, you know, I remember. Do you remember the 200th?

I do. I do. I do. I was fine. I was a camp. I got a special commemorative coin from Franklin Mint. Yeah, I really liked the 200th. And I felt very proud of this country at the time.

“And I feel like, why do you have to make everything so cheesy and grifty and gross?”

Like, I'm excited for the 300th. I'll be dead, but that's okay. But I mean, it's just, it feels like grifty and gross. Although I did recently run into-- You might be around actually. I'm going to call a challenge in that. You'll be 113.

No, I will not be around for that. Anyway, I'm just reading into Ken Burns at something.

And he always makes me feel better.

I just always, I want to hang out with Ken Burns in Vermont and go hiking. That's what I want to do. Because I like listening to tell tales of our founding fathers. And I feel better. Well, but just to that point, if you want to feel better about America,

the space we're in and we're incredible narcissist. We like to think that we're in uniquely good or uniquely bad times. Folks, as bad as things are, things have been much worse in America. And we've always been able to come back stronger. Yeah.

And it's not to say, you don't need to vote. You don't need to be alarmed. You don't need to take action. But at 1.1% of America, American population control the government.

80 years ago, we were interning people in makeshift concentration camps because they're parents or because they immigrated from Japan. And we have been in pretty dark places before. Yeah, yeah, we have. Anyway, history makes me worse.

Hang out with Ken Burns in Vermont. That's my goal. Anyway, last story, Blue Origin is facing a major setback of it. It's a new Glen Rocket exploded during a test in the launch palace.

We, the company, said, all personnel were safe and described. The incident as anomaly Jeff Bezos posted our next very rough day, but we'll rebuild whatever needs for building. Get it back to flying. It's worth it.

The explosion, which damaged Blue Origin's launch bat,

which is a critical problem.

It's a significant blow. They've spent about a billion dollars on it. I think it's a key canaveral. To challenge SpaceX and the commercial space race. And one of the things about the new Glen is they can put up.

They're trying with their Leo system to put up lots of satellites. They have a couple hundred and space starlink has, I don't know, 10,000 or close to 10,000. And so they've been trying to do this in these new Glen rockets.

“We put up, I think, 48 or 50, as opposed to a couple,”

that they put up in their smaller rockets. You know, it's a real problem for the launch pad. One for the big, for the big one. And for it to blow up on the launch pad. When I understand it, I've been talking to a lot of rocket people.

It should have blown up in the air of all things, because then they would have been able to preserve the launch pad. It's not great. It's not a great thing. And thank God Elon didn't give that,

you know, go on and on about it. Because he knows he blows up his own rockets frequently. But it would be nice to have more than one in this area, although it's two of the same people. Still, the competition.

Thoughts? I just couldn't wait to, like, as soon as I saw the explosion, I immediately posted it on threads and said, "Bas us back on CMBC again." Which I thought was really good.

I didn't get them any likes, but I thought that was funny.

Like, my favorite, I always like to hear the live broadcast

because the individual, and they're trained to do this. They always call an explosion and anomaly. An anomaly, yeah. Which is like calling my divorce a scheduling conflict. (laughs)

It's like, yeah. We can make jokes as nobody was killed. A disagreement, a mild disagreement. A mild negative, yeah. You know, and my favorite, it's like,

I don't fully understand. And this happens all the time. But when a rocket blows up on the launch pad, isn't that like failing a sobriety test in the parking lot?

Yeah. I mean, yeah. I need to understand the physics, but it's just to be clear. Yeah, good.

One of the reasons private companies like SpaceX and Lourge and have succeeded or have caught in some ways surpass NASA is that they're allowed to move further out the risk curve and explode rockets on the launch pad.

If NASA did this, there's a feeling of government failure. They can't take these kinds of risks into a certain extent. This is, I feel like you need a certain number of bank failures every once in a while to show that you are allocating capital at close to or near the efficient frontier of growth.

You do, I hate to say this.

“I think you do need a certain number of explosions”

on the launch pad because what that says is, and by the way, my understanding is not a single person was injured or killed here. That's right. This is a loss of capital from a company

that has access to a lot of capital. It's not good. It's not because they were trying to get, like, think about it. A couple hundred versus 10,000 satellites.

Like, you know what you want to have them explode? This is a function. No, no, no, but he has 10,000 satellites up here. This is, this is, everyone talks about Mars and everything else.

This is a race for satellite dominance, but only one company dominates at this point. And so, it's a setback and that they can't get dozens of these things after they can get a couple on these smaller rockets.

And, you know, they're trying very hard. It's just, it's still, someone, when they saw the explosion said to me, "Oh, look, it's the Washington Post budget for here." Like or something.

I was sort of laughed, it's true. He doesn't mind losing money here, and he's losing money. It's be clear. He's hoping for a payoff later,

although looking at the rocket business, SpaceX is not the greatest business in the world right now, yet either. Well, it's our link is. It's got to drive him crazy.

That he's behind. He looks like he's behind the guy. I was running six companies at the same time. Yeah, yeah. And, and right now, you know,

Blue Origin is looking less like NASA, and more like, I don't know, Neiman Marcus with propulsion. Yeah, too.

“But you know, there's summer yachting to do, you know?”

I don't know. If you know that, but that space is his job during the summer. Good for now. I'm, I've told you. I'm here for his midlife crisis.

Yeah. Yeah, I know you like that. I think I've got invited back to the event. He goes to that. I thought I was disinvited from,

because I thought Elon was going, I'm not going to tell you because I don't want to get disinvited.

God, I never get invited.

I'm glad you get invited. What do they think you're like? Like a patsy? They think they can turn me. Yes.

And by the way, I'm a patsy. I think they can turn me. And actually part of me thinks that you can be. Oh, no. If I turn, it's going to be towards way the left.

Every day I get a little bit more burning. Oh, well. Okay. All right.

No, but, but I always come in for you.

“It really irritates me, especially because they're irritating people.”

Come for you. Coming for you meeting, hating on me or inviting me. I like it. Wanting to do stuff. No.

That bothers you. I like that. I like it. Get your mids off. - Dick Joe's in person. - Oh, it's well-known conference.

- Yes, sure, it meets up my imperfect ally. - No, I told a dick joke, right? While Anthony Blinken was on stage, that was a moment. - No. - No. - I like him, he's very-- - He's a nice, he's a handsome man.

- I think people are scared of you. I think they're less scared of me. - I don't know, whatever you-- - And they know I like to drink. I bring a good vibe. - All right, I don't think I'm going on fun.

I'm going on the view. Anyway, that's a big-- - That's a big-- - You know what, that's a-- - Yeah. - You would rather be invited to be on the view. - I know, you're right, you're right, but I like to just so,

'cause I like to see their discomfort when I'm there.

'Cause I never really do anything.

I'm quite cordial. - Oh, speaking of invitations and bringing this back to me, I'm going to brilliant minds next week. - Oh, you are, that's fun. I went to it a many years ago, the first time.

- What's that like? - It's in Sweden, right? - It's Stockholm. - Yes, yeah, yeah, it was lovely, and it's lovely. And it's actually well done.

There's not a lot of ads to it, but maybe there is now. There's some never-sats, which-- - No, it's wrong, I can't wait to go to Stockholm. - Anyway, one more quick break will be back for wins and fails.

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And deck yes, the cubo capsule-maschine in deiner Chiebeau-fiale und auf Chiebeau-dee. - Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails. - I should go first. - Sure, I go first, I'm gonna do an all-car.

- Okay, I mean, I just interviewed this young man, Theo Baker. - It's right here, this is his book. - How to rule the world. And it's about, it's an education in power, it's Stanford University.

This is the kid who did all those stories as a 17-year-old on the head of Stanford, being part of a, he didn't falsify the information, but several papers he had his name on dead

and he never moved to correct them.

Just a, he's a son of two well-known Washington reporters, I'm not gonna say the names, 'cause he's his own person. Wonderful book about power, technology, not, he's a technologist who loves technology,

he's also an astonishing reporter. Just a great, really great. I felt so good for journalism, he started off as a, and just really, it's doing get got amazing reviews, how to rule the world, Theo Baker, he's very young,

he's just graduating Stanford in two weeks, although he's just run right over them with his amazing reporting, and this isn't really interesting. But including about this one group called How to Rule the World, the Course, the Secret Course,

“that you have to get tapped for at Stanford,”

and how they made so many mischapen entrepreneurs, mentally mischapen entrepreneurs. And I just, it's nice to hear from a young person in this regard, and I just think he's a really, he has a big career ahead of him.

- That's nice. - Yeah, and Amy Pascal is bought the book for a movie, and he's, the kids are all right. I always, when I did this interview, I felt the kids are fucking all right.

- That's right. - And it extends also to my kids, like Alex is killing it in his job, I can't say where it is, but it's a, it's a big car company. And he's loving it, and he's,

I think enthusiasm is enormous, and Louis is working in a restaurant in San Francisco, and he loves it in a political campaign. So, the kids are fucking all right. That's what I feel good about.

- And that's for-- - And that's for the car company. Let me get this, you went to Michigan. - There's a lot of that. - I don't know. - He's having a great time. He's having a great time.

He's learning so much, and it's really wonderful for him. Yes, me not too, so I'm not going to. - Okay. - Okay. - Okay, my fail is, I do think it's around this,

we're on Platinum thing, and I, Amanda and I did have a disagreement about it. She's quite irritated by him. - Did you have hot sex after? - No, no, we did not.

We were exhausted from all the children's parties. And my power washing. Let me say, I know this people don't like it, but at some point, we just have to, this, I know people are gonna say,

we have to have purity does, and it's coming from White Lady Kara, Old White Lady Kara, who has money, et cetera. I don't care. I just, I never have cared for zeroing in

on people's personal issues. I can have personal feelings about it. Like friends who have shitty boyfriends or whatever, but Grand Platinum's wife is not my friend. I might have a different piece of advice

for her if that was the case. And, but I just feel like it's their business. Like it's even, even with Ken Paxton,

“as much of, I think he's more of the fraudulent stuff”

with his wife. I don't, it sounds like he's a liar in a cheat in that way he handle it and treat it her,

And I think that's pertinent. But I almost don't care even about that, and although there are some things to learn. And so, I think the judgeiness of people has really got to stop.

It's good. And not only because the Republicans do it, that's not the reason to do it. It's not kind and it's not, and it's not, there is a goal here.

And we cannot make people feel like shit all the time for mistakes. I've made mistakes, God's made mistakes. We're all imperfect. And that's what I think about.

So it's a failure of our country to continue on that, down that road. We have to leave some things behind. My when I just interviewed the CEO of Eli Lilly, a guy named David Rix, and I'm just fascinated with Lilly.

They made a huge bet on GOP One drugs.

As, you know, I think I'm a revolutionary.

“I think GOP One's gonna be a more important technology”

than AI in this company is quintupled its market cap in the last five years. And one of the things I absolutely, 'cause they made a big bet on GOP One. GOP One's just 12 months ago,

we're averaging $1,000 a month. They've already been cut to $250 to $500. It's a definition of elasticity. I think at some point these drugs are gonna be less than $100 a month.

And maybe even lower than that. And I think the demand will absolutely explode. So I think the market is doing a really good job here of trying to get these drugs to the people who need them most.

And I think these drugs are just absolutely revolutionary in terms of everything from obviously, from obesity, but redacted and alcoholism, biting your nails, they're giving it to kids with social media dictions. I think it's not about eating less, it's about wanting less.

I'm fascinated by these things. And this company, Eli Lilly, is the first trillion dollar, or is the first pharmaceutical company to breach a trillion dollars.

“And it's a 13th to most valuable company of the world.”

And the thing I love about this place, it's not at San Francisco, it's not in New York, it's not in London. Do you know where they're headed quarters? - I know, I don't, where are they?

- Indianapolis. - Oh, cool. - And this guy kind of wreaks it. He went to Purdue, followed, love of his life in Indiana, where he went to the Kelly School to employ 50,000 people.

It's easily the most important company in Indiana,

if not the Midwest. But we spend so much time talking about the Bay Area, or New York, and I just love a trillion dollar company. - That's a great interview for you, that's a great interview. You have been a very early person on G.L.P.1.

- I find them absolutely fascinating. Much talk to someone who uses AI for their work and just loves it, and if that person is also on G.L.P.1, ask them what's had a bigger impact on their life. If I could go short AI and long G.L.P.1,

that would be my investment thesis for the next decade. Anyway, great company, C.O. is just wreaks of kind of Midwestern values, and I'm glad they're just doing so well.

“I think they've made a huge bet in its paying off in spades.”

My fail was gonna be what you said. I personally don't trust anyone who hasn't said something stupid or drank too much at some point, or I don't know, had failings in their mirror. I was wonder, okay, so we stabbed this person with a fork,

'cause see if they're actually human, when they present this pure image of themselves, and I'm sure those people are out there, but you're, you know, thereby the grace of God go, I, and if you want,

if you want better candidates, folks, focus on whether they'd be a good fucking senator, they're not, they don't need to be a rabbi. Like, do you think they're smarter on policy? Do you think they demonstrate good leadership skills?

And if you look at the best leaders in terms of actually moving America forward, sometimes they're not exactly priests, I believe, anyway, but where my fail is, you summarize that more, particularly when I did,

but where I go is the real fail. Jesus Christ, yep. Platner, just don't it. - Own it. - Own it. - I've made mistake.

I've demonstrated terrible judgment of my marriage. - Boy, yes, me too. - And, and I have a great marriage. - Yep. - And guess what?

The majority of people in America who have demonstrated terrible judgment and relationships can still have great marriages. And it says something about her, it says something about me, it says something about me.

- We get better, I have to say I'm better at this image although not perfect either, by the way, a lot of failings, but you better. - That's to get older, you do get better, I agree. - Get better.

- Yeah, I said my anyways.

But anyway, I just, we always, these candidates fail

and Christ's communications is so easy, yet everyone gets it wrong, own the issue, acknowledge the problem and just, but all they've done is they've kept it alive in the cycle by denying it and attacking the media.

They couldn't have, in my opinion, again, it's not about the scandal folks, it's how you handle it. - That's it, anyway, that's my fail. - They're mad, they're mad, what do you want? - Anyway, that was a great one.

We want to hear from you, send us your questions about business checker, whatever's on your mind,

just a minute question for the show or call 855-5-1-pivot.

“Now elsewhere in the Karen Scott universe,”

this week and on with Karen Swiss, I talked to former NPR host, Audie Cornish and Ari Shapiro, who have reunited for a new CNN cultural podcast called Engagement Party. Audie says the goal is to help people get out of the cultural silos,

speaking in the hat that put social media puts us in. Let's listen to a clip. - I'm doing this kind of show to jailbreak the algorithm. I hate the for you page.

My kingdom for an actual search that works.

I don't like the word feed. Like everything about the way they have structured social media

“in the last 10 to 15 years bothers me deeply.”

- You know, the only word that they say user with the other industry that uses the word user. - Drug sucks. - Exactly. Like all those, I do the same thing.

I'm like, yeah, feed, user. Just everything about it, content, it's just they hate us. - It was really fun.

It was actually really fun interview with the two of them.

- She's very talented. - She isn't so sorry. Ari is terrific too. Really interesting pairing. They're trying to do pivot, but let's stick jokes in here.

- Well, then fuck them. - Fuck them. - Fuck them. - They can't get there. - Fuck you, Ari, an audience.

- Good luck. - Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot. Be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday.

- Today's show is produced by Lairon Amin. So I mark a sailor group in a Todd Wiseman. - Alia Jackson, Engineer at this episode. Thanks all said a Drew Burroughs. Music is a very intentional on the shock chorus.

Vox Mead is exactly a producer of Vox Mead. Make sure to follow up on your favorite Vox platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine. And Vox Meadia, we'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech

and business care. Have a great rest of the week. Support for the show comes from Harvey AI. The future of law is agentec, not just tools that assist, but AI agents that navigate complex matters.

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