Noem Out, Iran War “Far From Over,” and Talarico’s Win

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Scott is always late, as if he's the most important person, and yet he's not.

Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Cara Swisher. Good. I'm Scott Calova. Where are you, Scott?

“Somewhere over the North Atlantic here, where are you?”

All right, I am in my studio in DC, but we recorrect. Cory, maintain eye contact, maintain eye contact. He's Cory Lewandowski with you. He doesn't ask you, yeah, so I'm fairly certain he's not going to keep his job either. I'm guessing, well, let me just give people back it up for a minute.

Scott, we recorded earlier, but had to hop back on, hence why you're on a plane, and we're redoing this. President Trump has fired Homeland Security Secretary, Christine Omer, given our fake job. Trump announced the move on true social, saying, "Nome had served us well, and has had numerous

and spectacular results. He announced the Republican Senator Mark Wayne. Mullen would replace, "Nome, "nome is stepping into a new role, apparently. She wasn't quite fired. I don't know what this is.

It's like a firing." Oh, no, she was fired. I get it. It's like special envoy, who Lew, who has no program, and so on. No, she's special envoy, let's get it right, special envoy, to the shield of the Americas.

I don't even, that's like a bad Marvel movie, I feel like, like, the one that we don't want to watch. But let's talk about this, because later in the show, we'll be talking about a lot of things happening right now for the Republicans. But talk to me about this firing a little bit.

Well, supposedly, I mean, you might have more information than it is, it was supposedly it wasn't the conflict of interests of having an affair with their number of terror. It wasn't essentially killing American citizens, it wasn't essentially overseeing what I would argue, or the definition of concentration camps, and that was black sites outside of the legal jurisdiction protection of your origin country, which is the definition of

a concentration camp. It was, supposedly, what was the struggle for Trump's back was that it spent close to over $200,000,000,000 on ads featuring her, which appeared to be courtesy of her number two in attempt to raise her, and we're now sure of presidential run, the debt, that that was what

But she was advancing herself, and Trump likes to only advantage himself, right? And so anybody else who's trying to do that, it was also the question these two recent congressional hearings. To me, I felt the writing was on the wall, because Republicans in this Senate, particularly,

“were really going after her, so they knew that they had no repercussions to do so, right?”

If they had gone after her because they were good people, or because they had a backbone, I think only Tom Tillis has been doing that because he's leaving. This is Senator Tillis from North Carolina. I think they had permission to go after her, whether it was Kennedy, John Kennedy, or others that really did attack her.

And the Democrats did an excellent job too, bringing up all these issues you talked about. I just felt like it was open season on her, so to speak, someone who enjoys killing dogs. And even the reaction has been interesting, Senator Tom Tillis, who was very upset about the disaster relief fuckups, I think, very much so, and about also about going after people

who didn't commit any crimes, right? Just in terms of, he kept talking about a quota system. Why are you doing it on a quota system in these hearings? His thing on X, saying goodbye, was Senator Mark Wayne Mullin is a great guy at a great choice to lead DHS, restore confidence and refocus efforts on quickly distributing disaster

aid.

That's the first thing he noted, keeping the border secure and targeting violent illegal immigrants

for deportation. Another big positive he likes dogs, which of course is referenced to her killing her dog. People are having a field day about this, of course, on the thing, although one of the good ones about Mark Wayne Mullin, who was a senator from Oklahoma, he can't even have a border between his name, Mark and Wayne, Mark Wayne.

But no, the Republicans felt emboldened to attack her, and therefore it was very clear that they got their signals from the White House would be my guess. If it had to go to what a foreign manager on what a low character person, spoiler alert for presidentals. And that is, when you hire people in the executive party of a team, if you know you're

going to fire them, which it sounds like he did, because it took about three seconds. The moment they announced she was leaving, they announced her replacement to quite frankly chop her out and use her as an anger pillow and humiliate her before showing the door, knowing that you were going to fire, as opposed to saying, look, we're making a change. There's no reason for you to go in front of Congress.

Or once you resign, you probably will not be caught, maybe they're still going to call there in front of Congress. Yeah, that last two days in Congress is bad. And that was, okay, we have absolutely no respect, fidelity, camaraderie for the people I hire.

And if it serves my political purposes, I will throw them under the bus and then back up the bus and run over them like that. That's the Trump way, right? That's the Trump way. And in fact, he doesn't even give her the, I don't think she deserves any dignity.

They didn't even just firing her, like you're fired. I mean, the guy who's so famous for doing your fire cannot say you're fired at the given this semesters on both to the shield of the Americas, which, and of course, she's bragging is if she won, right, as if it was a good thing, because like even as she's humiliated

“and by the next emulation, by the way, is going to be Pam Bondi, right?”

That's obvious. He's going to go, all the ladies as, you know, of the Trump administration are in big trouble.

And they will be the first to go, they'll get to cash, but tell it's some point or maybe

not, but like another incompetent, another, you know, same thing with Pam Bondi, Mendatius and incompetent. And so he doesn't, the fact that he hasn't let go so many of these people already who are just not up to the task is really says a ton of about his management style. I think they're more strategic and keep wanting to be impeded for, and when I was a consultant,

I was just in, I would review the accident, so it's fine, again, to be sent to a management thing. I would say, I would ask a series of questions. And one of the questions I would ask, but I would say, I would ask, please in the room that's not in the room.

And that is what is the context, what is the influences, what is the overarching thing of the vibe and the stream or the objectives before you can show up?

And the two people that are always in the room around any Trump official and any public activity

are one, Roy Cohn. If you look at the way these people are quick themselves, in front of the set of, and the Congress, one of the greatest erosions in the brand equity of the United States is there has always been a level of civility and decorum. They aren't that South Korean set up with a brick and a fist to coughs or they're starting

yelling at each other. There was always a certain amount of respect.

“This Roy Cohn deny deflects of discate attack, you're, you're, you should be ashamed of yourself,”

you're a failed lawyer, go on, don't answer the question. That has, in and among itself, eroded the value and the prestige of this set of Roy Cohn is always in the room when these guys testify.

And I believe there are three people armed with LLM saying monitoring the temperature

“of abstine in the news and when it gets above a certain temperature, they think of distractions.”

And nothing is better than one of these hearings or declaring war or saying you're going to raise a tariff's of 50%, but I literally think they have, they are monitoring the, the number of times abstain and Trump are linked together when it gets above a certain temperature in the past. Yes, I think you're right.

They, they thrust them one under the bus, an acid tariff just started firing missiles, whatever it might be, you know, capturing or, uh, of sconding with, with leaders of central American countries, but Roy Cohn and Jeffrey Epstein are in every room. All right, that's a really smart, that's a, and the Epstein stuff is not going away. Let me just say it is not, it is, as I said a half a year ago, it is here to stay.

Like, it's the thing, to, to Christy Names credits, you did not go to the island on her fuck plane, um, so that's a good, that's a good part of her. But we wish you, well, Christy, you're completely incompetent, deserved to be fired, um, but the fact that he kept you there, that long says more about the Donald Trump than it does about Christy Names, she, she is, is what she is, I guess.

I heard she's going to be a volunteer to get an all-kill dog shelter. No, very funny. I mean, that's going to, that's going to, that's going to go to the end of her days and deservedly so anyway, uh, now back to the rest of the show, I guess where I went last night.

Where'd you go? Party for, uh, Andrew Ross Sork and at the French embassy, our favorite Canadian. I was not invited. I know, it was my puck and he got the first amendment award. He gave him, he gave such a good speech.

He's, like, he's a very talented guy. He's such a nice boy. I don't know what to say. He's a nice boy. He gave an excellent speech about the first amendment, and he said everyone thinks he's

a Canadian because we say, that's the case. He now is, yes, but it's Canadian citizen. He's a lovely man. I like his wife too.

So I've never, but let's just say he's a Canadian, even though he's not, he's not.

Yeah, I take it for some of her does name. What? Yeah. My first board meeting at the New York Times, uh, they were going around and we have this succession strategy.

And that's when I knew the CEO wasn't very good. It was clear. She was like shooting everybody. They got near the CEO. Yeah.

Yeah. And they went through, and we're trying to, everyone was asking about compensation and equity towards, and they mentioned this one young reporter. And everyone's like, well, offer them a percent, you know, you know, and they mentioned they go, oh, and we have this young reporter who is really talented, Andrew Socker.

And everyone went, Pam, whatever he wants. Oh. Everyone literally said, you know, we're trying to manage a company that you need physical discipline. It wasn't doing well.

Yeah. And his name comes up and everyone looks like Pam, whatever he wants. We come up with that guy. Yeah. Well, he's looks great.

He gave it.

He got the first amendment award.

I, and it gave a beautiful speech. Anyway, congratulations. It was a fun party. It was a good party. Daddy's going to a big party.

What are you doing? Well, you weren't invited, but you wouldn't be my plus. Oh, the vanity fair. I actually, um, the guy who's the editor is boyfriend, Sean McCreech, was there. And he sat.

What is going. I said, well, Scott Galaway is going to be there. So he'll shut the place, fuck down.

“You want to see someone at the bar having a good time?”

Yeah. I've been so nervous about what to wear. You're going to be really happy. You're going to be really happy. You're going to be really happy.

You're going to be really happy. You're going to be really happy. I'm going to be really happy. I'm going to be really happy. I'm going to be really happy.

I'm going to be really happy. I'm going to be really happy. I'm going to be really happy. I'm going to be really happy. I'm going to be really happy.

I'm going to be really happy. I'm going to be really happy. I'm going to be really happy. I'm going to be really happy. I'm going to be really happy.

I'm going to be really happy. I'm going to be really happy. I'm going to be really happy. I'm going to be really happy. I'm going to be really happy.

I'm going to be really happy. I'm going to be really happy. I'm going to be really happy. I'm going to be really happy. I went to one when it was up at this was in that hotel sunset tower.

You speak the sunset tower. It was small, much more intimate. One year, all the tech people got wet. They invited all the tech people. I was like, fuck, I don't want to see these people.

I want to see celebrities. They're really shy at the time. They get bothering me, like, to talk to me. I was like, I don't want to talk to you. I don't want to talk to you.

All you people. I wasn't able to talk to anybody, but except they were wearing Google Glass. He was wearing a Google Glass. And he goes, no one's talking to me. I'm like, take off your fucking Google Glass and, like, say, you're a billionaire.

That's how it's going to work here. The second time, the second time I went there, I ran into, I was talking as you did, to Bob Eiger or, I forget, Comcast Head. May have been Ted Sarandoz. And the guy who plays Perry Potter came up to me and said, excuse me.

“And he said, I've noticed all the really important studio people are.”

It's so lucky to have a story that makes you sound powerful.

No, I did know.

Shut up.

“So he said, I've noticed you're talking.”

They're all talking to you.

And they're very interested in talking to you. Who are you? This guy was really smart. I love him. Daniel Gradcliffe.

And I said, I'm their drug dealer. That's what I did. I know. Anyway, I have a lot of good stories from here. You'll have a good talk to people.

Say hello to Robert De Nirofis there. Yeah, that's not my stop. I wasn't going to go. I said no.

“And then, so when we both know said, you have to go once.”

Yeah, you do. But I believe it's been very stressful picking out my outfit. Yeah, but it's early. Remember, it's early. You go like, like, 10 o'clock in the morning.

I'm literally leaving you. It's up by Southwest. I'm changing on the plane. And I'm going straight to the event. I only think I was invited because they thought I was going to be your plus one.

And then you said no when I said yes. No, I don't think so. Anyway, I have a great time. You'll have a great time. We've got a lot to get to you today.

Because we also, we're going to be in this week. And we'll be in Minneapolis.

We'll talk about that in a second on Sunday.

We're very excited to do resistance. Subscribe there. But let's get to the news first. Let's dig in. First, defense secretary Pete Hegseth says the war in Iran is far from over.

Warning that we've only just begun. It was such a ridiculous press conference. As a record, the house is said to vote on a measured block president Trump from taking further action in Iran without congressional support. And the Senate already failed to do that, by the way. European leaders are pushing back on Trump.

Notably Spain's prime minister who said we can't play Russian rule out with a destiny of millions of people. He's absolutely correct. The White House said they were cooperating and then they said they weren't. Trump is also facing pushback from parts of his mega base over the war, even as he insists. His mega loves what I'm doing, they do not love what he's doing and looking at the economic impact US gas prices saw their biggest single day spike in three years this week.

And oil prices continue to rise. This drag on the in the US economy is going to be very tough for Trump and and the Republicans as we approach the midterms. I've been I've been talking to a lot of Republicans. In fact, I had a meeting with a very prominent one yesterday. And they are they I can tell you they do not like this or they think P to excess is is an imbecile that's for sure.

And they don't think this was well thought out at all.

“I think and that's that's the Republicans and these were people who may be publicly are being supportive by at least voting against the restrictions on Trump.”

What what are your thoughts about the economy? What's happening here. It really hasn't taken much of it here yet. It's the existential threat that it could digress into something much bigger and more dangerous. But oil is up about 11, 11 bucks a barrel or 10% or 12% which translates to about 25 cents a gallon. Typically typically wars the markets go down and then they check back and actually the year after war ends markets typically outperforms.

I don't think you can say that the markets have responded or that we know this is going to be inflationary. What what I think you can say is that I believe if he had gone to Congress and made an argument for why we're doing this why now and what are our objectives.

He might have gotten the authorization for the use of military force they never get declarations of war any longer they get AOMFs.

But unfortunately what they've done is because they had to position this as a defensive action. We said oh one of our allies was about to be immunally attacked we were going to have to respond so it's okay you just gave into this very dangerous trope that Israel's controlling the US. Yes. That was just and you have had such inconsistent messaging. Absolutely.

This is regime change no we don't want regime change this is going to be five days will be there as long as it takes. Now the Kurds we're bringing the Kurds. Yeah now we're going to operate the Kurds well okay what does that mean when the Kurds get fired up in other regions. This is a special combat operation. It's war they have so much inconsistent messaging and the fact that they didn't reflect the confidence to admit them. I'm think about the American citizens in the Gulf and a plan for getting them out.

It seems like makes Biden's Afghanistan with your all seem like in addition just just tactically bombing to Ron the majority the real danger here is that. The Iranian people are not on our side turn against us because what the Iranian biggest miscalculation was firing they basically. John Stewart summarized it is two guys start beating up on you so what do you do you try and start a fight with everyone in the bar. That was a real strategic mistake on the part of Iran but our potentially biggest mistake is when we're bombing Tehran.

You're essentially flattening neighborhoods of people who are probably more pro West and empathetic it's the the kind of religious the the geographies in the rural area so. No one really trusts I think the why why now an objectives had legitimacy here and he potentially could have got.

The broader numbers 41 59 so let's be clear the majority of Americans do not support this I still think had he had a well thought out plan he could have gotten potentially.

I think this was interesting listening to this Republican very high profile politician he was like they have 15 days to resolve this like because if it drags on more and they don't seem to have a point is a problem and one of the things he was pointing to.

“He was unaffiliated voters he said this he says across there there are red lights everywhere for Republicans right independence and independence hate this and he said if he doesn't have a very tight sharp.”

I mean he was lumbaks that they didn't have one might that they didn't have and they they weren't communicating them and I'll tell you what when he had gone to that briefing about whether there really wasn't imminent threat and one of the reporters asked him is was there an in a minute threat and he said well there's been one for 47 years that's what it sounded like like he was like didn't even buy their nonsensical reasons.

You asked about the economy so the decision to to go to war in my opinion is not what is going to be quote unquote the downfall or really hurt the Trump administration it's the following.

It appears that these types of actions unilateral actions where you don't make any attempt to get European or Gulf nations involved increase legitimacy much less the resources. It's going to help shoot down these nations have their own military their unintelligence they could have served a real valuable role in help protecting those Gulf states achieving the objectives the fact that. We now have a 1.1 trillion dollar military that appears to be run by a confidence in addition. America was the operating system we everyone settles their trades and dollars they operate on the IP agreements of America we largely enforce the flows of energy with our navy.

Military bases make sure that rogue nations don't go to rogue we're sort of in the operating system now this decision amongst others specifically going about it unilaterally with no attempt to even. Consult Congress or allies all of a sudden shows the nation that used to enforce that no nation go to rogue they're now that rogue nation.

“But I think the real existential threat to the economy and to American prosperity is the following it's yet another data point that shows.”

We used to be the cop or the protection when we hear a knock at the door now we are the knock at the door. It's really what's interesting is how many people are are secretly not for it right it's it's a really you do see the strength of of people pushing back now on trump which is really interesting much more so all over the place not listening to him not going along with them. Typically politicians go along with anybody when there's a war happening they try not to be too difficult but one of the things is further abrogation of power by the Congress you know in terms of where they where they and.

They're sitting around act talking and debating about whether they have power or not if I don't know if you followed any of that it's kind of ridiculous and they do and one of the it just I think it just creates more chaos around trump like it's chaotic. This is a very interesting thing. It's a very interesting thing. The same time as all his his his work the people work for them are incompetent that seem more and more and especially Pete has said you seem completely out of sorts for this and one of the of course there's a conspiracy theory is everywhere but one of them is that.

“And that's what he'll use as the excuse to call Marshall law just just so you know there's a lot of things happening all all at the same time and I just don't it's not good because it's chaos and trump chaos and trump and so.”

I think trump is the same thing as our domestic problems here with him it's chaos it's chaos and it's not thought out and it's incompetence. And you know, obviously the Republicans are worried about the midterms and they should the first primaries of the 20 26 midterms here are some of the highlights from Tuesday's elections in Texas in comment senator john cornan and Texas attorney general Ken Paxon are headed to a late may GOP senate run off.

The most expensive senate primary in history with Republicans alone wrecking up nearly a hundred million dollars in ad buys.

Trump is supposedly going to pick one and tell the other to get out but Ken Paxon already said he's not getting out even if he doesn't get picked. And state representative James Talereco beat representative Jasmine crocket in Texas is democratic senate primary. Let's listen to a clip from tele Rico's victory speech. To the billionaires who have taken over our state and taken over our country your unchecked power is coming to an end.

We sound like a guy we should hang out with good good good good it was a good speech and actually I have to say crocket handled the defeat well I they seem to come together everyone's like we're all going to come together. And they both ran really tough campaigns and and they they have to say everybody acted the Democrats look like they're not in disarray as they say. Texas Supreme Court stepped into block a last minute voting extension in two counties after GOP primary polling mix ups backing and appeal from Ken Paxon.

It seemed like he was just trying to create chaos in North Carolina former governor Roy Cooper won the Democratic Senate primary quite easily will face Republican Michael Wattley. For senator Tom tell us the seat in the race that could help decide senate control so interesting stuff going on there a lot of people lost their jobs Dan Crenshaw lost his job. He was targeted by a billionaires speaking of billionaires who spent enormous amounts of money to get rid of him. There was a in North Carolina that of the state senate who'd been in power for a long long time is in a very tight race a lot of people losing losing their jobs like all over the place.

“So what do you think this means for Democrats this year and for Republicans?”

It's very exciting for Democrats the I mean the Taloreca race the first off if Taloreca wins the seat against the Republican nominee.

I think he's likely or very likely to be the vice presidential pick in 2028 because if he wins this and shows an ability to win in Texas. If as VP they think he could deliver Texas it's game over for whoever's for the Democrats win if you could flip Texas in a presidential race. I think he should stay there for a little bit. Get the mass power. Well how long did how long was it?

Yeah, right. Yep, that's right. I mean the VP is supposed to be the person to take over it's not the VP is brought on to hopefully win a state that is a swing state for the most part anyways. So it's exciting moment for Taloreco but what's really exciting for Democrats is that through the odds the majority or the number of Democrats turning out in a primary was in the high hundreds of thousands.

“Two point one million Democrats turned out and the other very exciting thing is that I think it was 1.8 million Republicans turned out.”

So whoever whoever party is able to turn out more people for the primary gives you real insight into what's going to happen in the general. Especially among Hispanics he really pulled in the he shifted them.

The first Texas statewide Democrat elected in 20 or 30 years Lloyd Benson was the last one I think was Anne Richards.

No, she was governor. So this is an exciting this is just a super exciting moment for Democrats. So I don't you know, I don't think you can overstate it all the races look to be a have been closer the surprising stuff with some of the more some of the Republicans who lost their. I think it's that was very interesting. I was thinking of sending some money to packs because I'd love to see him against Taloreco because I think that's Taloreco wins.

Yeah, yeah. Anyways, he's refusing to get out.

“I mean, who knows if he from it's going to try to get him out supposedly they think corn is the better person to run against.”

Well he's more likeable. He's absolutely acceptable.

Within the mag it doesn't excite the maga groups right they like packs and he's backed by all the maga groups all of them. Yeah, it's this is like I looked at the results and all I thought was and I try to screen out my biases. I thought there's just no getting around us. This feels really good. Yeah, yeah, we'll see. It was really interesting and I thought that Taloreco's continued focus on the rich was really interesting.

It's really it's it's he's got a similar vibe of obviously you would point to AOC and Bernie. Yeah, Bernie and of course, mom Donnie like he's like the Texas Mondani kind of thing. And so you know, I kept saying, you know, if he wins and of course Trump attacked him quite a bit he'll be at the White House hanging out with Trump like Trump will be hugging him like and stuff like that because he loves a winner that kind of thing. He's just the kind of person that will do pull a similar thing that Mondani did.

When Domino was to describe Mondani was smart, he showed that he was a pragmatist and he was willing to he wanted to be effective versus right and not politically grandstand. Yeah, yeah, that woman released. He's proven to be quite pragmatic. He's kept Jessica Tish just police commissioner who is very effective. I just have a feeling, Taloreco's going to have the same experience with Trump that Trump will well there hug him.

But the class the class warfare, if you will around the billionaire class. So the genico efficient, which is a measure of inequality, if it's zero to one.

If you're at one, it means one person has everything.

“I think, but revolution, it was takes on a different collection.”

I think what we have now is a series of smaller revolutions. But when you start identifying a class of people based on their wealth. I mean, that kind of means the revolution is coming. And Trump and Epstein and the people Epstein surrounded himself with it has created. I mean, we are, I mean, the revolution here might be a series of tax increase.

I don't know how it's going to play out. Yeah, let me just read something. This is an historian read. The richest Americans have a mass enormous wealth in recent years. Well, most Americans have seen their stagnate.

The net worth of the top 0.1% doubled from 2020 to a collective sum of 24.9 trillion.

And the third quarter of 2025.

And now accounts for 14.4% of the total household wealth according to the federal reserve. That's an astonishing figure. Well, yeah. The, what William Gibson said about technology is true about prosperity. And that its prosperity is here in America.

It's just not evenly distributed. Yeah. And now 10. And it's made us more fragile as an economy to sink to the morality of a 10% top 10% of US households are now responsible for 50% of the spend.

Right.

“I think tech billionaires have done so much damage to themselves in this the way they behaved.”

And they do act like they have on and I think Elon Musk will down in history is someone who really began to push back against this because the, what the imperialists and ridiculous way he conducts himself and all of them, all of them do all of them do. Well, becoming the wealthiest man on the world such that you can cut off a day to heavy days.

Yes, that's not a good luck. Yeah. It's not a good luck. And congratulations to Teletrico and others who won. And the Jasmine Crocker, by the way, I thought you ran into the campaign.

She went right up and then attacked Kristy Known beautiful. Like get a beautiful take down of Kristy Known, which is she's very good at her job. We haven't seen the last of her. Hope not. She really is.

Okay. Scott. Let's go on a quick break when we come back. What Sam Altman is saying about Open AI's deal with the Pentagon and what are you on and what are you.

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Our cows, them going out to pasture, they love it, they're so excited to go out every day. They wait right at the dooring effect. We milk them and we just open up the lane way and let them just go right out to pasture.

Our farm is Molly Brook Farm, we're an organic dairy farm and we are a supplier to Stonyfield.

“Molly Brook Farm has been in my husband's family since 1835.”

We started our organic transition in 2015. We had 53 acres of corn ground and of course we had to use herbicides and pesticides and the soil was dead. Really, for all intents purposes, we stopped growing corn and stopped using herbicides and pesticides. And we seated that down to perennial grasses. After that, we began to see biodiversity and that soil again.

To be organic certified, our cows need to be in pasture at least 120 days. I think the organic practices really benefit our animals. You know, having good feed, good water, a nice light area.

“That's what's important to us and that's what's important to Stonyfield.”

Visit stonyfield.com to find Stonyfield Organic Yogurt near you. Scott, we're back. Open A has updated its deal with the Pentagon, adding language says it's AI systems shall not be intentionally used for domestic surveillance.

CEO Sam Altman wrote, it's critical to protect the civil liberties of Americans, but in all hands meeting this week.

Sam told staff that open A had no control over how the defense department uses it so far. And while defending the deal in the Pentagon, he acknowledged that rolling it out so quickly made the company look quote opportunistic and sloppy. That's the, the opportunity and sloppy is the poor name of open AI. Sam said it's been painful to try to do the quote right thing and then get quote personally crushed for it. Oh my god Sam, this is so he needs to stop talking.

I've got to say it's a question of whether he's actually tarnished the brand too much in his actions. Chat GPT, uninstalled search 295% the day after the Pentagon deal was announced. Cloud downloads continue to spike meanwhile anthropic CEO Darrya Modi told his staff the Trump administration didn't like in. Throp it because it hadn't given dictator style praise to Trump while Sam has he really laid in just they they there's a few think Elon Musk and Sam Altman have a problem. Darrya Modi and Sam Altman have a problem.

What do you think about this? This is like a real, oh god something's going on over there at open AI that they really need to fix.

“I think but on the other side and you know as people know we're going to be ever this and unsubscribe and many apples on Sunday.”

And the way we're evolving it is we're now going to try and encourage people to sign up for who we think are good actors. And the most obvious contrast here is the contrast between open AI and anthropic. And I've been saying for six months that I thought one of the biggest commercial opportunities was for CEO basically to say no and say these are we're done enabling these type of this type of depraved behavior.

We're not going to engage in the violation of Americans Americans rights and the hero we didn't think we needed is Darrya Modi he's basically stepped up and he said no.

And just to the point of it being a huge commercial opportunity he anthropic immediately searched number one in the app store and it's annual recurring revenue has gone from 14 billion to 19 billion in just one week. So this is going to be this is a big moment because what Darrya and anthropic have done even if they don't realize it is there all of a sudden get going to give a bunch of CEOs across America. The confidence to start saying no because I thought it was going to be Nike, but we said this six months ago it's a huge commercial opportunity.

It's got to be a tech person since tech has been so in bed with Trump it's got to be a tech person doing it. Fair point, but the point is the opportunity here was for someone to stand up and say enough already I'm not going to I'm done. Yeah, I'll tell you a lot of Republican senators really have not liked the way he has set his hand old I've been talking to a lot of them quietly they have been saying in terms of capitalists. Yes, they're very they're very not disposed they're like when did we become communist essentially and and one of the things they'll be interesting I mean sort of anthropic is a little like put Tom tell us has been doing he's left.

But he has enormous leverage over the Trump administration now because he can say things and so instead he says this sucks to Peter or Steven Miller sucks right he does say it outright and then others say well I'm not really liking some of the things is even Miller it gives them the courage to say slightly less critical things and I think that's a great way to be and Darry. Just so I know playing that role if you're I get it, but he's playing the role of a heat shield in a lot of ways if you're on to roll you get to make weapons for the government it's legal if you're Palantir you get to sell data to the government as long as it's legal and for whatever purposes they might use it for and if you're anthropic you get to work with who you want you can't do it based on you can't discriminate or not work with people based on their sexual orientation or their ethnicity, but they can absolutely you can just we get to decide who we take ads from.

Claude went from number 42 to number one in the free app store. So this is I mean this is a big moment this is a turning point because I just trust me on this in the next 30 days all of a sudden we're going to see these. These CEOs cosplaying Nelson Mandela an acting right just I don't know I don't know about that one of the things it was interesting there was a pole out in Emerson but I can't remember that was an Emerson it was a it was a more normal pull that said that people want CEOs to remain neutral but they also want them to be genuine so they kind of like this you know even though they say they don't want companies to weigh in they kind of do which is interesting people answer differently I do think people.

Do vote like with resistance and subscribe if you don't like how chat to I so many people told me they don't chat GPT more than any of the other ones and Amazon would be the second one when they come up to me ask me about your efforts with resistance and subscribe.

“It's always Amazon and and open AI that they focus in on that's what I've noticed, but we haven't had an option to the upside we haven't had a carrot to stick.”

And this is given everyone the ability to say all right my lack of spending is a signal but my spending can also be a signal and I think there's a big opportunity here and I'm personally going to urge people. to sign up for and patronize anthropic and to unsubscribe and not use open AI and send a very strong signal that people notice and when certain companies stand up at potentially you know potentially pretty severe risk of retribution from the largest customer in the world. And there's all kinds of second order effects of palliantear uses cloud a lot of people use cloud it's a real risk in my costume in the short run well there's a lot of it over the medium and a long term I believe this is one of the biggest commercial opportunities.

“Yeah, we'll see where it goes. The issue let me just make a warning for anthropic Dario who is typical tech person arrogant it can be arrogant and.”

Imperious kind of thing he loves to write which I appreciate I like I like to see you that does really he's a good writer actually.

He he's got to be careful not to appear to. Right just right to self right just I think that's weird. I think you should go dark and just let us action speak for his words. Yeah exactly I think there is that you know that he's definitely getting attacked by. The idiot and meal Michael and David Sachs the other more on again government government officials deciding that we're now like he said central planning. Yeah. It's another data point you asked about the economy every time we diminish the rule of law.

Everyone is entitled to and subject to the same laws every time we okay the laws now a tool for political retribution based on who's in power. He's more powerful a top dairy mode is more powerful now than he was because he's the only one right and the same thing with a Tom tell us he is more leverage now in his 300 days left because it gives the gives people permission to be to push back you know maybe not he gets to be the louder one both of them and it'll be interesting it'll be all over the place.

Speaking of not pushing back FCC chair Brendan Carr who I loved calling more on because he is says he expects the water brothers paramount merger deal to get through approval pretty quickly course you lap dog. Let's listen to what he said when asked about whether we would have concerns about the Netflix deal. There's a lot of concerns in DC and you can see it already just a scope in scale on the streaming service in particular.

“They would have a very difficult path for working regulatory perspective this deal is a lot cleaner does not raise at all the same types of concerns I think there's some real consumer benefits that can emerge from it.”

He's right about it was obviously it's a smaller that's that's right Brandon but Brandon has nothing to do with this deal and he always mouths off on everything.

Meanwhile, Fitz ratings one of the Wall Street big credit rating agencies cut paramount credit ratings to junk status no surprise enormous debt I think from 75 to 100 billion dollars in debt it's a big it's a big chunk of money. They say they're going to deliver it quickly but it's always hard as Bill Cohen noted. And David Zazloff also not looking so good presidency of waters he's looking good to shareholder's file to sell over $114 million worth of stock in a company he's getting pill agreed by because it's very clear that.

That paramount will have to cut they say six billion it's much higher you know I card does not play a role here just just for people to understand real role.

But it will get through it probably will you know they've been working Europe they've been working the government it's just a question of how they get through and and what damage they have done by doing this very non economic deal.

I mean if you if you if you wrap if you ran into money time Warner executives in 2005 Steve case super smart he realized that. AOL had nowhere near the value was trading at so he said this is a time to trade it in for boring revenues to come from records and books and parks and movies and if you find a time Warner executive two or three years later literally the retirements were ruined because of what was the worst acquisition. And that's time Warner's merger with AOL and AOL within like 36 months was worth 10% of what time Warner had to pay for it and give up.

And then AT&T about time Warner and then barely and then had to take a had to take a haircut and then time Warner merged with discovery and basically it turned into just a giant.

The public benefit organization it's like basically the merger between discovery and Warner Brothers is if David Zazloff had been honest who would have stood up and said look. This can make me almost a billionaire regardless of whether I destroy or make shareholder. Certainly didn't improve it did not it's underperform the S&P by any stretch of the imagination he's a brilliant investment banker and he's going to walk away with 700 million dollars whatever it's legal. Good for him shareholder what I don't get as if I was Netflix I would be I'd be much meaner or more macavalan and I'd be trying to fire up as many democratic lawmakers as possible.

“I think they are I think probably they are they're saying a lot of public you know Jerry Cardinali who's one of the investors tried to clap back at Netflix all the all the I've talked to some paramount executives and.”

I think it's very effective by slapping them you know making them a villain but yeah I agree the unions why it's going to be a tax and also. Ralph Men's Sherry Redstone, and now David Ellison, there's a general trend throughout history, where Dad makes a shit ton of money through grit and creativity, and then Dad Jr. loses it. Yeah. And, but basically the only ones who were like, "Well, Murdoch, Murdoch took his dad, but that was

like the smog." Oh, no. He was a rich kid, but he turned his father's into an empire.

And, and, and anyways, this anyone involved in media now is basically a billionaires

kid looking to go to the Oscars and make the family 80% less wealthy. Yeah. And that's what Brahmsman did. That's what Sherry Redstone did. Definitely.

“And that's that's what David Ellison is about to do.”

Well, he has a lot of money, so he has a lot to lose. He really, really, really likes making movies. God. This company is going to be, they're going to try to go to AI to cut risks to cut. And, I think, and I think you're going to see a lot of AI slot.

I think the creative community is going to turn on them. And I think this is going to be there. I would not want to own those bonds right now unless they're senior secured in the stack, but I think this is going to be very, and of course, they're going to get a lot of attention with the news thing, even though it's a smaller part of the empire.

You know, they're going to-- I wouldn't be surprised what they sell it.

I don't, I don't, I've never bought their money.

Well, they're more than I know for sure, they're merging CBS and CNN, but they have to. It's economically untenable, not to do so. I would hope they would put Mark Thompson in charge of the whole thing.

“I think he's a really good person and very well-liked.”

I can tell you, it's hair on fire over at CNN in terms of being-- I get like, like, covered with CNN. What's happening, Carol? What's happening, Carol? I have some knowledge, I will say, but they were definitely merging the two of them.

There's no other choice for them to do that. I think they should have CNN anchors on survivor the same end, though. Danabash, oh my god, she would sew-- I mean, Caitlyn Collins would kill them all. Don't you think?

Oh no, I think Danabash is the kind of person that would smother in your sleep if she needed to. Really, I feel like Caitlyn Collins. Did you see her laying on the kick in the press secretaries, Dad? I think there's a very dark, interesting side to Danna. OK, all right, but we don't--

And I'm here for it, Danab-- All right, I'm here for it. So Jake probably will get gotten the Anderson, of course, a so sweet. I'm trying to think if there's an outside person, Bruno. I don't know if there's a lot of people there.

There's a lot of people. I'm going to vote Caitlyn Collins. You can vote Danabash. We definitely think Anderson and Jake will be off the will be dinner. I think Farid just opens a bar on the island because I'm done, I'm done.

I'm sick of telling people what's going to happen. Jack Rank is a survivability on an island of CNN anchors.

Yeah, who wins in survivors?

CNN's survive.

“They're literally going to have to do create, sir.”

Survivor, the CNN edition. Oh, Scott, what do you do with Scott Jennings? What do you-- where do you put it? Oh, he's killed by his own troops. He's like, he's, I mean, yeah, no, he's a guy.

He's got a very, they bury up to his neck and sand and lifts up the tide come in slow. No. Why could like that? They're like, is there a fire and--

I don't dislike it. Is there a fire and hill on the island? We have an idea for Scott. This is-- I know it's going to sink, but it's such a funny idea to have something like this. No, we have Michael Smirconnish leading campfire songs at the end of night to make everyone feel

good. We have AC360 that guy who's substitute for Anderson, he just has to walk around with a shirt off. He's hot and strong. He just has to walk around with his shirt.

I'm on the shirt off. I've got it off a-- if Elison's called me, I take back everything I've said.

“I have a way to pay off that other one, you should make it a survivor, the CNN edition.”

I'm telling you, Kiko and Collins will take them all down. All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break when we come back to the return of the burger wars. This is right near wheelhouse. Support for the show comes from Odo.

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That's ATTO.com/vox. Scott, we're back with more news, Burger King and McDonald's have some social media beef. I can't believe I just read that. McDonald's posted a video of its CEO eating the company's big arch burger last month and while he says he was taking a big bite, the bite was small, he also called it the product.

The video went viral because of the discrepancy and then on the day of the release of the big arch Burger King posted a video of its president eating a water burger and a more enthusiastic

“fashion than the rest of them. There's a Wendy's one, I think there's a talk about, I don't know,”

there's so many of them now and well, what did you think? Very briefly, what did you think of this? It's kind of fascinating. It really took off the burger eating situation. It was McDonald's and Burger King and then the other Wendy's got involved. They're all in there. They're all in there. Funny, stupid. Well, no one wanted to talk about was there was a CEO McDonald's, so I think died of

colorectal cancer and it was late '40s. I don't, yeah, that's a real pick-me-up. Wow, thank God. Yeah, I don't know why I brought that up. What do I could not be less interested in this story? Other than to say that, other than to say that, as I'm sure you are, I've been talking to all these presidents of presidential candidates who call me for ideas, which is their way of saying send me money.

I'm like negotiate by a billion doses of a GOP one drink. Right, yeah. Actually, these businesses

If you want to solve the deficit, all roads lead to health care. If we want to reduce health care

costs, all roads, in my opinion, lead to GOP one and that the best investment we could make.

“I think, I think faster, by the way, I got to be honest. I look forward. The only thing I'm”

talking about travel is if I'm at an airport, I grab myself the luxury of eating McDonald's. I have a general rule. I don't eat fast food or go to strip bars and cities I live in because I could just go bad places. So, but when I'm at the airport, the McDonald's and Newark is the best McDonald's in the world. Do you like eating out, too, in straight track? Oh, that's not even fast food. That's the best meal in the world. That's literally the best food. Well, then let me get on this

for on food chains. RFK Junior question, what's in Dunkin Donuts products in Massachusetts is not having it. Governor Moore, a healing post in an image with a Dunkin Cups saying come and take it. Others are having fun with the job on social media saying things like if this administration changes anything that goes into Dunkin, I will make January 6th, like a tea party. You know, it's interesting. You're going after brands. Like, well, our case, another more on. It's interesting because

remember when Bloomberg did this with the coat with the sugar, it wasn't good. It wasn't a good

“minute for him. Oh, the big up time for the tea. What do you think about this? I think Dunkin is”

not a good thing to go after. I feel like people really like that Dunkin Donuts, they really do. And they know, they know it's full of sugar. They're aware. America runs on Dunkin, Carol. Um, like, I think people have the right to kill themselves. And if they want to do it slowly with McDonald's and Dunkin, that's kind of their opportunity. I think the government has an obligation to go the other way and provide more education. 70% of Americans are obese or of a way. It's like 38%

or obese in Japan. It's 4%. And it starts very early. They have every public school has have a nutritionist and they are not allowed to have any processed food and everything has to be made fresh in the morning. Same thing in Korea, there's a whole scene in my documentary with a me and a Korean school eating their food. It's astonishing. And you ask these kids with their favorite fooders. They're like broccoli. Yes, no, they were like, oh, this kimchi here. It was, it was a fermented food. It was

me so soup. It was rice, certainly. It was, it was so good. It was so healthy. It was crazy. And they ended up paying $6,000 or $7,000 per consumer on health care. And we pay 13,000 folks. It's due to the math. So I don't like, I don't like demonizing. Like I like McDonald's, I like Dunkin Donuts. I like to think that because of education early on, I got some, you know, on full swing eating the

right foods. Also, the reality is fast food is a function of poverty. And that is, or going back to the

same income inequality. And that is, if you're a single mother, the cheapest caloric intake is fast food. And people, people want to get moral. And extra people about the importance of cooking in home and cooking with good food. Actually, the myth is that cooking in home saves you money. No, it's not to cook at home with natural ingredients is really expensive. And so, and also time,

“a lot of people have to drive food deserts. But again, I've said this before. I think the most”

transformative technology over the next five or ten years is not AI. I think it's GLP1. But love McDonald's, I think people should have the right to kill themselves fast or slow if they want. But I think a really good investment would be giving people enough money and if education says that they want to and can afford to E-well. Yeah. But I have to say I wouldn't go up against more healing. If I were your case, she's a tough nut. She's a big basketball player.

I don't know if you know, she's a very good one. Anyway, we'll see what her event, right? She did it. Yes, it's great. We met her wife. Yes. Anyway, we'll see where it goes. But it's really interesting that these, these, I have to say, some of the brands on social media are really interesting. And some of them are better than the Wendy's does an amazing job, for example, online. Well, you know what Peter Pan's favorite place to eat out is. Where Wendy's. I can't believe you have

a dirty joke about Wendy's. Oh, God. All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for

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you'll get a 30-day free trial. No credit card or payment needed. Just head to pipedrive.com/box to get started. That's pipedrive.com/box and you can be up and running in minutes. Okay Scott, that's your prediction. I have something very quickly to say in the prediction department. I, for people who know there was a story again on bots about problems with wrongful deaths and suicides. This time it's Google with Gemini AI, I chat bot, coach demand towards suicide,

and this story is devastating. This is an adult, not a young person, not at someone underage, but it's still a justice devastating. What it did and what it told them to do and it made them go to places and look for things in order to find a robot to put this digital girlfriend into to. I have to say I project some really significant legislation around this in a way that is probably going to be too reactive and at the same time it necessary because of the way these

companies are conducting their chat bots that interact with people on a personal level and they

“have done nothing to rain the man. I think there's going to be a flood of things around how”

we interact with technology that's going to be bipartisan and pretty ugly for the tech companies. Yeah and I didn't mean to make light a fast food. There was a mass shooting at a fast food restaurant where the guy was screaming, you've ordered your last McRib and then one of the workers said, "Sir, this is a Wendy's." Oh my god. That's so wrong, Cara. It's so wrong. That's so wrong. Anyway, what's your prediction? I want to take some license here and I wanted to talk,

I wanted to do kind of a fail in a win and that is, I just, I watched, I'm one of my living heroes is Madam Secretary Clinton. It's the only person I've ever canvas for and when I saw I watched your entire testimony, I just thought the level of sexism was so fucking insane and that is, so first off,

“when is the last time a man was asked repeatedly to explain his wife's behavior or actions?”

In the, this is the absurdity of holding wives accountable for husbands and here's what's so incredibly

fucked up about this. We live in a world where women with their own 50 or career in public service, Senator Secretary of State, President of Canada gets hauled in front of a committee and asked to explain what her husband did. Now what you did, what he did and also there's this implicit assumption that like, and why didn't you stop him? And we've seen the same bullshit for decades when a powerful man did something wrong, we turned to his wife and ask, "Where were you? Why didn't you know? Why

didn't you leave him? Why are you still with him?" And we never asked the inverse. When a woman in power screws up, we don't haul her husband and ask him to explain her choices. We don't demand he account for her behavior. We don't ask, "Why did you stay with her?" Because implicit in all this, well, we do ask that, but go ahead. implicit in all this is this assumption that men are autonomous agents responsible for their own actions, which is right, whereas women are responsible for

everyone's actions, including their husbands. The double standard is staggering. If Hillary had left Bill after the Lewinsky scandal, she did been called a calculating opportunist who abandoned him and that it was politically convenient. If she stays with him, she's complicit in everything. He's ever done. So I just think it's insane that they kept asking her questions when he was

just to piss off the Brooklyn sanddled or Birkenstock crowd on the other side, there is absolutely

“a double standard for for women when it comes to asking them to explain obvious discretion's”

or conflicts of interest. Watching the exchange, basically saying, "Are you having sex with

are you in an extra marital?" And I'm going to be clear. I'm not judging them on having an extra marital affair or having sex. When you're having a relationship with your number two who is unqualified, that is reason to be fired at any organization, any corporation, much less a cabinet position and what the exchange reminded me of was how selectively we apply accountability and politics and as someone who considers them a feminist, that means you're subject to the same

opportunities and also you're entitled to the same amount of shit as everybody else. And when male politicians face questions about personal conduct, the expectation is clear, answer the fucking question. And when they dodge the press in the opposition, usually press harder

until they either deny it or outright until they deny it or admit it. Maybe Johnny Gonzalez,

so that just happens. He vagin becomes the story, but when a woman, Secretary Nome respond to a direct question about a relationship, calling a total garbage into planning to actually say no, the moment largely past without the same relentless follow-up. It will float away because of this double standard of being accused of slut shaming. This is sexism the other way. If a male cabinet secretary responded that way to a similar question that headlines would read refuses to

deny and the questioning wouldn't stop. So there is sexism asking women to take responsibility for their husbands, but at the same time there was a double standard and a lack of accountability amongst women for the same types of things where the press and other lawmakers would not

“let up. So preachy today. I know I think lawmakers did not let up. I think they said it.”

It's over. It's done. They are not. They are doing their job. They did ask and they asked several times. So if this had been built in or another man, it would be, it would be ongoing until they clarify their comment. I'm going to say you're right about the media. I think they asked as hard as they could and she just refused. She went. I think they should have said the following and it's easy to be an immigrant. I think one of them should have said, you are having an inappropriate

relationship with your number two. It was unqualified and this puts the nation at risk. I would factor into a fucking corner. That's fair. They could have done it a different way. You're right. So I'll move on. Okay. Real quick, my prediction is no. And that is, Dario Amote has given license and permission to see us to saying no. And in the next 30 days, you are going to see a raft of CEOs find their testicles and start saying no to the administration.

No. There's going to be a lot of that. I agree with you. 100%. Okay. Well, it's speaking of yes. We will be in Minnesota, everybody. Just so you know, we're going to be there on Sunday night and we are very excited. And we're very excited to do the show. It'll be a pivot show at the same time. We're going to talk a lot about resistance and unsubscribing scots. That's some tricks up

“asleep. We've got some special guests, secret guests. We're sold out. So we're not like we're selling it,”

but we're we're very excited to do it and raise money for a legal organization that helps immigrants there. Anyway, we want to hear from you. Send us your question about business tech or whatever is on your mind. Go to nmymag.com/pivot. Send a question for the show. We're called 85551 pivot elsewhere in the Karen Scott universe. This week on property markets, Scott spoke with big short legend Steve Iceman about why he thinks the war in

Iran is unlikely to rattle markets and why the bigger risk investors should be watching again is AI. Let's listen to a clip. Everything that's being created by people who are doing AI has value. The question is how much value? So much money is being spent. The returns that these companies are going to generate are going to justify those returns. I suspect not, but I had to take my life on it. I'd say we'd have some kind of replay where,

you know, in the internet bubble, the first generation of internet companies basically failed, and it was the second generation of internet companies that took us on to glory in terms of the value of the internet. Very good. Very sensible. I make sense. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to pivot and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back next week with an episode. As I said, take live in Minneapolis. Gotta can't believe we did it.

I mean, we just thought of the show and then we made it happen. Yeah, and I did. It's happened. And again, thank you to all our staff for helping us here. And of course, to

Tain Danger in Minneapolis who's been really amazing. We're very excited to come. We're going to have

can get Scott. We have to read us out of this. Oh, thanks. Yeah. Where am I? Where am I?

“Reheat my soup. Today's show was produced by Lair and Amen, joy, Marcus, and Taylor Griffin,”

earning her child engineering this episode in an allemaal reino edited the video.

Thanks, also, to Drew Burroughs, Mr. Varian, on Dan Shalon, Nishakura's Fox Media's Executive Producer podcast. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine of Ox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine and winemack.com/pod. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and

business. Three words, first word mini, second, app, third, or less.

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