SpaceX IPO: Markets, Morals, and What It Means for You

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Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.

And I'm Scott Galloway. Scott the next, Steven X. Taylor Swift brought back Balanced to the universe. What? What are you talking about? What's going on in my talking about? Were you out late drinking? You didn't know what happened last? Exactly. Were you there? It doesn't feel late. I'm out of form of the morning and it's still light here. I'm in Stockholm. Oh, the next. I'm talking about the New York next. Oh, yeah, yeah. I heard about it. Sometimes I come back. Sometimes I have the greatest come back in history.

It was like 20s. I'm not even interested in sports. And I watched the fuck out of that. Logic is jealous. Swift was in the front row with Mariska. Hard to get. You know the hard to get. Yeah, hard to get. There's the Benson and they were hugging all the time. I'm wearing a doorable t-shirts like Steven X and Nickel, Nickel back. And so let me just say that was quite a game. And it was quite a shift. What they were down quite a bit. Yeah. And it's the last minutes. I was like, oh, they can't win. I looked away. It's folding laundry and stuff.

And then they came back and then they got ahead and then they got behind. And then the last like 30 seconds this guy tipped a ball into the thing and it was crazy. It was crazy. It was crazy. And then Taylor Swift was there. The whole thing. There were a lot of celebrities. But let me just say sports centers. Starting carrots wish. There you go. There we go. It was so good. And then the party's people watching on the street. I love New York. I love New York. So I was, I was going to stay. Go to the next game. Go to Tribeca Film Festival. I have the greatest bunch of meetings. I have the greatest three days planned in New York.

And then I freaked out about not seeing my boys fly home. I walk in the door expecting your heroes reception. And I got, what do you ever go into this? They saw me. I walked in and they went like this. They went like this. Like just a little bit of a nod. A little bit of a head to like, hey, bro. Not even a hey, bro. Just like a non-verbal hey, bro. And I thought, no. And at that moment I thought, I should be at the next game.

What do I do? What do I do? Coming home. I don't need to be rude, but I never get that. My set. In fact, I didn't even mark mayor's film festival.

Everyone says their kids are great. I'm like, my kids are great. They're different. No, I get a big, I came in from a week away. I was in New York doing all manner nonsense. I came home and they ran up and we had big hugs and they lay all over me. I didn't have to nod. Nope, no, no, no. Alexis, like, come see me. I'm going to Australia with Louie. Now we're tight as ticks. Yeah, yeah, that's not happening at the day now. I've got a letter to Clara wrote me a letter. She's starting to write.

Oh, that's nice. About Miss and me. Yeah. That's great. Did you know Sweden has not been a war for 200 years? Oh. I think that's why the city--

“That's why the city is so beautiful. It really helps when you don't, like, have the largest well.”

Oh, there's a lot more to it, wasn't it? Not at all. I mean, okay, get this and Sweden, the GDP-- In World War II, the GDP of Sweden grew. Oh, wow.

Were they switch or lending it? Yeah, they were basically, they're basically trading and making money while everyone else is killing each other. Oh, lovely.

“Interesting. What about war one? They weren't involved in that?”

They have not been in a war for 200 years. So what time is it there? Because it's really bright. Is it like a million a clock? No, it's almost midday. It's 5.10 pm. I'm not exaggerating. It's light out until-- Until late.

You can be here for a year, huh? Yes, for a year. And then it gets like kind of darkish, right? Yeah, and it really gets dark. It feels like it's dusk or dawn from what--

Yeah. 11pm till 5am. Maybe not. Like that when I was there. So how is it going? How's it going with the Swedes?

It's good, I'm at the Syncob Brilliant Minds. Yeah, I told you I'd done that.

Yeah, and yeah, I've never been.

Yeah. It's my first one. For me, it's about Stockholm. I've been walking around a lot. It's really nice.

There's a lot of reindeer. Uh, I had not known that. Although, I had literally the toughest meat in the world I had last night. I needed a chain shop. It was reindeer.

Could have been reindeer. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And Sweden.

They were the first country in the world that had a negative central bank interest rate where you had to pay money for them to hold on to your money. Well, I'm glad you're there.

But let me just like the back of the cellars with very quickly. Oh, here we go. She brought balance to the universe along with these ladies. They were dancing. They were being fans.

They were, and what was my favorite part of a many of the parts of it. Yeah. Like so many. Was that the guy that Scooter Braun was sitting with his girlfriend, Sidney Sweeney, way back behind her,

who stole all her songs. Well, she bought them and he fucked with her. And she was sitting down front and having the time of her fucking life.

“But it was kind of an interesting karma thing, right?”

That he was there. He falls asleep. He looks totally uninterested in the game. They lose. She's their court side, screaming her ass off,

like a normal fan. And she's gone to Nick's games for years and years. And they went and they went in the clutch and they come back. It just felt right. Yeah.

If karma is a real thing, it means that Scooter Braun has been the nicest person in the world up until now. I don't know about any of this. Except who's sleeping with Sidney Sweeney?

Well, he is. I think they're getting mad. Yeah. That's what I mean. Anyway, we have a lot to get to today. As we tape on Thursday,

SpaceX is less than 24 hours out from its stock market debut. And we've got a special guest here to help us break it down. Let's bring in Stephanie Rool, anchor of the new MSNow show. Money. Power.

Politics. At 9 a.m. She's moving from nighttime. The dark of nighttime on MSNow. Too morning.

Welcome, Stephanie. Thank you so much for having me. As we tape on Thursday, SpaceX is less than 24 hours out from its stock market debut. The company is set its price at $135 a share of allowing the company at 1.77 trillion.

SpaceX IPO will likely make Elon Musk the first trillion air.

In the world, ever and make over 4,000 current and former SpaceX employees, millionaires. But if all of the IPOing isn't enough to keep Elon Musk busy is taking X to involve himself in very terrible anti-immigration riots in northern Ireland saying only by protesting repeatedly.

And now they would be any change. He's supporting a lot of really whore heinous people. They are in response to criticism about his support. Musk posted murderous migrants. Beheading innocent people in their hometown is what's making people

anger not social media. So he's making terrible trouble. And the British government has responded quite a bit to his involvement. He's been meddling over there for quite a while. Now, so first let's talk about the IPO.

Scott has had really great analysis of it. And a lot of people like Aswath and why you and others are like, this is his prices ridiculous and at the same time it'll probably jump up and then jump down essentially. So let give us your headline of the SpaceX IPO.

People who are investing, people who are participating in the IPO, they're not buying SpaceX. You're betting on Elon Musk. You are buying Elon Musk. The amount of control he has over this company is unprecedented.

And I'm not saying people should or they shouldn't. But that's who they're betting on. And it's extraordinary to me because even think about what you just mentioned with where he's taken to X and with regard to the protests in Ireland.

“We haven't heard one word from the underwriters of like, are we okay with this?”

Do you remember it was five or six years ago when it sort of like at the height of me too when Goldman had the big proclamation of like, we're only going to be doing deals with, you know, with companies that have a commitment to diversity and, you know, that's most, and I'm like, we're like, do we not have one shred of a moral

compass here in the answer is that we don't?

No one is mentioning this. And when you think about how wealthy he's about to become. And I'm not insulting it or compliment. I'm just saying I just want people to realize this is a person who directly impacts what's happening in a war by pulling starlink.

This is a person who wants to control information.

This is a person who realized through Donald Trump he can invest in candidates and by investing in candidates get whatever he wants.

“Like the reason I think we're now going, we are seeing in unprecedented amount of money”

going into these elections is because Elon Musk and Donald Trump prove that it works. Right, you're not just getting a little bit of influence. One fifth of SpaceX's revenue. It says it right in the perspective comes from government contracts. And so you, we could all say this is hanky, this isn't how capitalism works.

This isn't how democracy should work or free markets. But for the investment community is saying, in my opinion, if you can't beat him, join him. I'm here for the, I'm here for the money. For the Joe Scott. I like Stephanie's sake. It's the boring stuff that moves in me. Sorry, what'd you say? I can hear you.

I like that. I like my good friend Stephanie's take. By the way, slip into my DMs if you ever decide that, you know, you've had it. You've just had it. You know how to reach me. You know how to reach me. Anyway, sorry.

Where are we close? Slide into my DMs. Slide into my DMs. And she'd slide into my DMs faster than she'd slide. That is correct.

That is 100% correct. That's true.

“I think that's true of most of our guests.”

Yes, yes, yes. Anyway, this long and take for a series of her thoughts and her deep thoughts on the situation with us. The thing that's not getting enough reporting is that, essentially,

must ability to lean on Trump who then called pollack hints and said, make the wave all previous rules and include this company in the Nastark.

100 is going to create 30 to 50 billion dollars in additional demand

for a company with a float of 100 billion. So it's used in analogy. Imagine on any given week. There's 100,000 people looking for homes in San Francisco. And that creates a certain price discovery in certain pricing or housing.

Imagine if all of a sudden, same number of houses were sailed. There's 150,000 buyers. So when you look at the incremental demand of 30 to 50 billion dollars is what I've calculated from things like QQQ and MSEI in the indices that are now forced to buy a company that might be 4 to 6% of the index,

meaning that 4 to 6% of their capital and the management has to be used to buy SpaceX stock despite the fact, again, in a violation of pre-existing rules that has been waived, only has 5% of its float out. You have what is in my opinion,

the greatest degree of manufacturer scarcity ever in an IPO. And this is about to be the greatest transfer of wealth from retail investors since crypto. 100% and carrot just add into that. What you originally said about who Elon Musk is like go back to Ireland.

Like we're not just making, like we're not just making a person, a company, this extraordinarily powerful. It's this person. Who he is, what he's done, what he stands for. That's sort of the thing that I want to sort of underline and highlight.

He just skate it, skate it around do, skate it around. And this will give me the ability to skate around everything. Right? Yeah, let's go up and down, right?

Because he's not always been.

He wasn't successful in Wisconsin, for example. His brand has gone to hell. You know, nobody's buying Tesla. There are, there are implications. But this gives him another life, sort of a Lex Luther,

just got another, the cat got another life. But yes, there's implications. But when you think about the stronghold that they have over the government, think about the amount of government contracts. When you say even if things go down,

like once you are embedded in the government with these government contracts, it's like a tick biting you, right? Like you don't just get a tick bite and pull it out. The tick bites, all the tentacles pop out and it doesn't come back out. So when people even say listen, when we have a different administration

and they see things differently, a lot of these things are going to pull back out. Once you're this entangled in the government, it doesn't work that way, he's in. Well, what if the Democrats get in? Is he in there?

There certainly, you know, Liz with Warren is, of course, as always speaking up. She's like, look, this is not a good thing to, she's going to hurt retirees. That's one of her things.

She has a number of them. You have Bernie Sanders wanting a chunk of companies like his and other like an open AI or whatever.

“Do I think things are going to, how many years have we talked”

about closing the carried interest loophole? How many years have we talked about banning or limiting

or adjusting congressional stock trading for a million years?

How many years have we talked about social media regulation and when Democrats had control sure? But I just think once you're embedded in the government, look, look at the case of Michael Dell, okay? Michael Dell, gladi did donate $6 billion

to the Trump baby accounts super duper. Trump then says everybody should go out there and buy a Dell. The stock goes up, Trump buys the stock. And then Michael Dell gets a $9.5 billion government contract.

if Democrats take control.

“I don't think that government contracts getting canceled, do you?”

No, no, but is there any price to pay for this kind of stuff? Well, there should be a price to pay because Democrats should be focused on two things as it relates to the midterms, affordability and accountability. If those are the two things that they can nail a message and a plan for, then they actually have a chance to take control here.

So what is going to happen with this IPO? How does it go? You've been, you've worked in this sector. Talk, Scott's talk, he thinks it's going to be a pop. Then down and then a trough.

You've seen all these charts, then a trough for a while. And then it'll start to go up so that people buy it the trough. Listen, there's so much excitement. There's so much enthusiasm. I mean, I just saw something the other day with Jamie Diamond talking this up

and they're not even the lead underrated around this. There's just, and listen, there's just so many people who are like Elon Musk, the guy who controls the world, I don't know, let's bet on him. Like people just want in, and especially as you can take, remember when at the height of COVID, when the control Elon Musk had the time,

like how he basically created meme stocks, right?

Elon Musk, we're taking it to the moon and people were all in.

“And I think nerds like us are reading all 22,000 words of a perspective,”

but there's scores of people out there who are just like, I just want in, even if it's for a minute. Now Scott, Scott, can you know, you had noticed a vibe ship, though, right? It feels, and then another friend of mine said, they got a call from their broker to get into it now,

which is, but they thought was a bad sign. It wasn't an email, and they were way down on the list. Scott was talking, Scott explained your feeling that the vibe is off. I think there's just been a tangible shift in vibe against AI. AI is kind of from 75% approval to 25% and I do think that there's some wobbling

as in the markets about maybe the economics that the technology will survive, but the evaluations may not. Having said that, SpaceX is, I mean, Stephanie's right. There's just a lot of people, this is a cult, not a company, that will invest in anything that Musk puts forward.

And to be fair, even companies that made no sense from the bottom of evaluation standpoint, he's still figured out a way to show return to those investors who were willing to hold on to a mediocre, automobile company that was trading like a software stock. So, a lot of people, you know, the cult, a lot of people think that the decline in Bitcoin price is because people that's same kind of person is selling their Bitcoin

to be in this company.

But basically what you have, just remind everybody, you have a great company with

great molds that's a rocket company. The company needs to make all the money. It's basically Comcast and Space. It's Starlink. And then you have this ridiculous money furnace attached to it, called, you know,

XAI. And it's going out at 100 times revenues. But right now, just back to the prediction. Care, I'm not convinced. It's not only going to pop out of the gates.

“It'll close first day up because I think some of the brightest minds in the history of”

finance with government control and the SEC on board have created a way to just pull off so much manufactured scarcity. You're not allowed to go public unless you issue at least 10% of the firm shares. They got a waiver to say, oh, only 5%. So, just look at it this way.

Demand is the velocity of the water coming out of the hose. Supply, if you can construct supply, you can strict the circumference of the nozzle. They are constructing the nozzle such that the velocity of the price here is going to be extreme to the upside. Because creating, they're creating false markets.

And Kara, professional investors know this. So, while Scott can be telling all of this as a warning or a problem and we should be concerned about it, even if professional investors fundamentally agree with Scott. And I'm sure they do. They're also saying, yeah, but guess what?

It means the stock is going to go up, right? And by the stock, buying a stock doesn't mean you're buying a house and you're locked into it for the next four years. And remember when Trump won, and Dose was created, all three of us and scores of other people called Elon Musk a shadow president.

And while he might not be sleeping on Stephen Miller's couch anymore and going into government agencies with a chainsaw, he still has an enormous, maybe even more influence over the government. And just don't see him walking into the oval office with his son on his shoulders. And people know that.

And when he's got that much influence over the government, or I'm not going to, I'm not going to go as far as to say Trump and his pocket, but Trump at least, you know, on his shoulder. That for many people, while it might not be the right thing morally is going to be the right thing financially. And that's what the markets are about.

Okay, let's listen to one more spacex question we got from a listener Holly. So what do you think about collective divestment of funds that automatically include spacex stock?

allowed this to happen?

First you Stephanie and the new Scott.

“Yes, it would make a, listen, any sort of economic boycott.”

And we've all talked about that. The only place you hit and where it hurts is an economic boycott. You can have the worst stories. You can have the worst headlines. You can drag all these guys to DC and have a hearing where Katie Porter pulls out a whiteboard and says,

You're naughty, naughty, naughty, naughty. They don't care. They got on their plane and they go home. But if they're, when and if there are significant economic boycotts, then they have no choice but to respond. I just don't know if we're ever going to see something like that.

Right, when we talk so much about, you know, Bezos and Amazon and as people are saying, like, I hate it or I hate those social media companies. They're saying it while they're scrolling through Instagram and then ordering Amazon packages. Scott. People will opt for their economic security.

And if they think they can get 10 or 20% and a two or one or two hour trade, they know this is overvalued. They know that the game is being rigged here. And they will take the allocation to get their 10 or 20%. No one says that if funeral, you know, this guy didn't participate in the SpaceX IPO because he had real integrity. Right, that's true.

Well, they'll say that in mind, OpenA is filed for an IPO. The company has not yet decided on timing saying in a statement. Maybe a while because there are things we want to do that are like the easier for private company. I don't know what that is like what orgies. I don't know. OpenA has last.

No, no. It didn't their defense. There's a lot you have to do explain account for when you go public. It's not easy.

OpenA was last valued at $852 billion.

“If I think comes shortly after rival anthropics, which of the three are you betting on?”

And how were you to about the concentration of so much market value and just a few companies? Does it make the entire, Scott has been talking about how the entire market is fragile? The entire market is fragile. And I think the name of the game for all of them, honestly, is to be you don't want to be the last one to IPO. Right, there is this huge appetite for AI.

I've already so excited, but there's so much and there's potentially so much over development. I think you just don't want to, of all of them. You just don't want to be the last one. When you've exhausted the market, man, it's already exhausted. No one is rooting for this IPO more than Elon Musk other than Sam Alman.

This sets the tone for the next couple of IPOs. It just comes out really strong. These guys are going to be able to come out and say, look at our numbers versus SpaceX. And you were willing to buy in at 100 times. Open AI and anthropic are going to look like value stocks compared to SpaceX's SpaceX holds up.

Yeah, if it holds up, if there's enough money. And in the case of open AI and anthropic, especially as it relates to a retail investor, those are companies that people actually could say they know and they see more than they do SpaceX. That's a good point. All right.

One last thing, inflation was up 4.2% annually in May. The highest in three years, much of the surge came from the increase in oil prices. Obviously, which burdened 35% in the months since US and Israel attacked Iran, but fear not President Trump is feeling optimistic about the situation. He likes it.

Let's listen to a clip. Are you going to serve as to President about the latest inflation number, which came out this morning? Could that be a no? I love who would put numbers, which right?

You know what I really love? I love the inflation. Okay. How much does he love inflation? Both of you.

“First of you, Stephanie, how much would it rise for he started to not live?”

It's so much. Well, two things. Like, as somebody who spent his life deeply in debt, I guess he could say yes. It inflation works for me.

If you put it in full context or when he tried to do a clean-up later, he's basically saying,

inflation's not bad. Think about where it could have been, right? People thought oil was going to be $200 a barrel. Oh, okay. But the fact of the matter is, and he said just this week,

like listen, gas prices were really high when Biden was in office, which was the case when Russia first invaded Ukraine. But guess what? Those high prices and inflation, I would say, were the fundamental reasons why Joe Biden and subsequently Kamala Harris didn't win the election.

Joe Donald Trump promised to lower prices day one. He obviously hasn't done that. I think when he talks about affordability being nonsense or an old-fashioned term, I think he's selling the truth, because he is in a gilded cage surrounded by people who have made, who are already super wealthy and they've made more money in the last two years

than is even conceivable. But where it's politically devastating and not necessarily for him, because he doesn't need to be president again, but for every Republican running, that sound bite of the president saying, inflation's great.

That hurts. You and I both have mothers that voted for Donald Trump, and I assure you, my mother does not think inflation is great, and she could tell you the praise of London Boyle and the price of gas today. This will hurt Republicans.

I say, "Linna Boyle" because like, that's an old-fashioned way. Would you like some London Boyle? Scott? Well, people don't, 4.2% doesn't sound like a lot.

And that is, at 4.2%, if that holds, that means the tuition to go to NYU at $62,000. If you have a baby today, when the baby is, when the kid is ready for college, tuition is now $125,000. Or bring it back to five years. It's easier for people to wrap their heads around.

That means a car that costs $50,000. It's going to cost $61,000. It's not 4.2. It's 4.2 compounding. And the other thing about this inflation print that's so bad,

is for the first time in several years,

inflation is now greater than wages, meaning the quality of everyone's life, their prosperity is diminished. But not for Trump and the people who are around Trump, and he's happy as a clam in that bubble.

“I think if it wasn't for the war in Iran, he would be on cloud nine.”

And also, it just bears mentioning that for the three of us, it really doesn't matter, because we own stocks. We own assets. We're hedged against inflation, because our house goes up 4.2% or stocks go up 4.2%

because Apple will raise its prices. Who this hurts? Our earners that don't have assets, yeah. And let's be clear, revolutions don't start because people aren't employed.

They start because people are working two jobs and they're still hungry. And this is yet again, it's another, it's another. There are still Argentina's had 120% of inflation.

There's a class of people there that have always stayed wealthy

because they own land. So the landowners in the stock owners, traditionally older people in the United States are just fine. And inflation is yet again another transfer of wealth from non-assette owners who are earners to the asset owners.

Kara, let me just say, when people say, when wealthy people say their panic stricken over Xoramundani coming for capitalism and leading the eat the rich sentiment, he's not leading the eat the rich sentiment.

Donald Trump saying I like inflation is fueling the eat the rich sentiment. Not the mayor of New York. The mayor of New York's correct. And the tech bro's saying all manner of nonsense

every day of the week in twice on Sunday is the same thing. It's anger inducing. And that's where you feel it. I think prediction on which of the IPOs coming

or is the stock market about to take a deep fall

as many people think. So which of all the IPOs, which one would you buy into? And are you worried about the stock market? Listen, I've been saying I've been worried about the stock market for quite some time and if you talk to CEOs

that are not the magnificent seven or that run companies that are impacted by tariffs or nasty deportation, those companies are not booming. They are struggling. They can't walk into the White House and offer Donald Trump

a plane or got only knows what. It's not so easy for them. So I think under the hood, things aren't great for lots of companies, but honestly, I'm not betting against the stock market

“because the only way it's been going is up”

and a current appetite for AI to me, it might be fragile, but it's big. It's big. Which one would you buy? It's on a plate in front of you.

If I was hanging my morals out the window, I'd buy all of them. No, okay. All right, then. There you go.

All right. Thank you, Stephanie, and everyone be sure to watch her new MS now show. I'm going to yell at money. Power politics weekdays at 9 a.m.

She's going to be getting up early to give us the lowdown on everything. Tell us what this move is about. What is the situation with MPP? I think we need a great big morning show.

I think that especially obviously we cover politics, we cover current events, but the economy is the number one thing that people vote on tomorrow. As we talk about the SpaceX IPO,

we're going to have a newly minted trillionaire. We are 16 years out from citizens united and have more money going into politics than ever. And not just politics because hey, I'd like this candidate politics

because it's directly impacting policy. We're going to do a lot of work. We're going to do a lot of work. We're going to do a lot of work. We're going to do a lot of work.

We're going to do a lot of work. We're going to do a lot of work. We're going to do a lot of work. We're going to do a lot of work. We're going to do a lot of work.

We're going to do a lot of work. We're going to do a lot of work. We're going to do a lot of work. We're going to do a lot of work. We're going to do a lot of work.

We're going to do a lot of work. The way that business news has traditionally been covered. It's business news covered for an audience that invest in the markets. And when CEOs go on TV, they're not necessarily giving their worldview.

They're talking about specific information about their companies that's going to impact their earnings report and their stock performance that day. We need to have much bigger and broader conversations in that.

“And that's what we're hoping to do at nine in the morning too.”

So you're on after morning Joe. It's sort of a year or so for a long time about politics mostly. So you're going to come in with a real hard news show in the morning essentially. Yes, but also I mean yes at nine in the morning.

I actually just talked about this in an interview the other day.

I think that when people watch TV, yes, people watch live TV. But it's more you watch the show that you want to watch. And if you make an important show that matters, it doesn't actually. If you if land man is your favorite show or friends and neighbors. And I said to you what time is it on what day you might say like, oh, I think it comes out on Fridays.

“Yeah, I think for me the most important thing isn't who's necessarily watching me at nine.”

It's how do we make the best show that counts? Because that's what people are going to want and need to say. Think about the way pivot. Think about the way people consume pivot. Yeah.

Yeah, usually when they're drunk. But no, no, no, no morning running. Not just Scott. Not just Scott. By the way, Stephanie, you.

I don't know if you. This is very much related to what you're talking about. We were talking about Taylor Swift. And I don't know if you guys heard, but all of her exes are getting together and collaborating on an album. And it's going to be called maybe she's the problem.

Oh, my God, she saved the nicks.

Don't don't. Don't listen to Stephanie appreciate. Don't answer the question. Stephanie appreciate that. By the way, I let's dive right from the news.

When Stephanie calls me, I'm both excited and scared. Because typically her call start with typically her. This is not exactly her call start with. I think you're really fucking up. Oh, I'm worried about you.

I guess. Whenever she calls, I'm like, oh, this is a very good of her. Okay, you know what? That's called a person who doesn't waste time. Who's an actual friend.

I call a friend. I call a friend. No, you're a friend. I'm a personal issue the other day. And when I started the call, I said, let me get to somewhere private.

And he immediately said, oh, no. Are you getting a divorce? Oh, my God. All right. No, I did.

“And that's why I said, wait till the kids are gone.”

Wait till the kids are out of the house. I was calling. I'm sorry. For some parenting space. I was calling for actual parenting advice from Scott, which he is fantastic out

when it comes to boys. And his immediate results before I just said, let me get to somewhere where no one else in the family could hear me. Wait till the kids are out of the house was his response. Thanks, Scott.

Oh, okay.

And then he proceeded to give me incredible advice.

No, I just say I have two fine sons. You might. Yes, we've heard over and over and over and over. Yes, one of them is quite good at cooking. If you didn't.

Yes, he's working for a restaurant now. How do we go? San Francisco is very excited. He has a little outfit. The other is at Michigan.

He's wonderful. He's got a fantastic girlfriend. No, all about Scott. No, he's got the kids. He loves his job.

He's manufacturing things in an advanced way. All right. Thank you, Stephanie. Thanks, Stephanie. Good to see you.

Thank you all so, so much. I love you both. Scott, I'll slide into your DMs later. Anyway, let's go on a quick break. We come back.

The Trump administration's freak out over Jeffrey Epstein. This is advertiser content from Harvey AI. We have a choice over who we work with and who we don't. Specifically who we allow to advertise and who we don't. And for those of you who watch my content,

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Und weiter geht's, einfach lauschen und genießen. Aldi. Gutis Fiala. Scott, we're back. The Trump administration cannot escape the assessing files.

Nor should they be able to. No matter how hard they try, and we're now getting more details about the internal panic about Epstein over the last year. Maggie Happerman and Jonathan Swan shared an excerpt from their upcoming book

regime change within New York Times. Both are New York Times writers, by the way. Here are some highlights.

The situation when we became an Epstein War Room

or strategy meetings took place, J.D. Vance suggested having Tucker Carlson in a really gelane Maxwell in prison. There was talk of then deputy AG Todd Blanche, going on Joe Rogan, but Vance wanted to go on instead of Blanche. Dan Bongino warned there would be President,

if this would be President Trump's Iran contra. There was talk of nipples and President Trump's disrespect for nipples in the room. And as funny as that sounds, it was pretty grotesque. His abuse of a young woman.

But this is what this entire leadership is talking about, and whether he'll be able to handle the nipple stuff getting out. It's not just the White House and has nothing to do with nipples here. Bill Gates was on Capitol Hill this week, testifying behind closed doors about his connection.

Epstein Gates said Epstein tried to use information about his extramarital affairs as leverage after the two had cut ties. He said, well, obviously he did. He's an evil villain. He also acknowledged that

meeting with Epstein was a grave error in judgment,

which he said before and put his philanthropy work at risk. And it certainly did, including his own reputation. Talk a little bit about what didn't surprise you about how the White House dealt with the Epstein stuff. They sound like fucking amateurs.

Every time he's reading, and I was like, "My bunch of amateurs. Big fights between Bungino, and Patel, and Bondi, and Susie Wiles just sitting over, like a dmented mother, who doesn't know how to control idiot children. Well, this be a major issue in terms that I will say,

as you know, I was very much an early on thing. This is a real problem. Reuters is at with a new poll, 75% of people think the government is hiding information on Epstein's clients. And a lot of it is falling as much as Trump has tried to

push it off on other people on the president himself.

“So I think we agree that it should be an issue.”

I don't think it will be. There's recent data showing. There's these March focus groups trying to abstain six amongst voter concerns I had. So it's well in the back of the bus here.

I think it is. Again, unfortunately, I just don't think it's that big issue. I think the American public is so numb to this kind of stuff, especially in the Trump administration. What I would actually found more interesting was the whole Gates testimony

and that is he has some of the best and brightest PR people because it wasn't an accident. So when you call someone to come testify in front of a special committee or whoever gets fired, you have some saying it. You have he has the best lawyers in the world.

And what do they do, Cara? They made they got it behind closed doors and they got it during the NBA finals, during Iran, during the SpaceX IPO. This is what you do. You know this business better than I do.

When you have shitty news, you bury it in a big news day, right? Yep, absolutely. So Gates, whether whether you think he deserves to be flagged in public or how guilty or not guilty of whatever you think he is, I just did mire the PR savvy here.

Yeah, that would be learned. Behind closed doors, during a very, very heavy business in this way, this story is going to come and go. Well, I still think it's a, I'm going to disagree with you

“because I think I was actually completely accurate at the beginning of the”

Epstein thing that it's a big deal. I think among the base of people, it remains in illuminating and a thing that gets them going. I don't think it goes away. And what was interesting was Dan Bungino during this whole thing

kept seeing that to the Trump people. But this is not a, they kept minimizing it. Saying it's not a big deal. It's not a big deal. It was a big fucking deal.

And this is something I knew from reading all these QAnon boards. This is, this is at the center. I think it's still at the center. I think it creates an atmosphere among people like Robyn and others of these fucking liars.

And I think Iran's a bigger deal for them than I absolutely. It is now. But I'm saying, it does, this is like one more, you know, another brick in the wall like that kind of thing. And so I think Epstein remains a bearing wall of this presidency.

And he cannot get away from it. And I get the nipple thing and everything else.

“And it's much, I think he's kind of like an oath.”

Dan Bungino had it right. And so by the way, did Vance, although, while was sort of accusing of being a conspiracy theorist, but I think Vance had his finger on the pulse of bringing it out, like as much as possible, even if it hurt the president slightly,

Unless, of course, there's very clear and convertible evidence that he slept with the underage girl, which it's still not proven. There's been a lot of allegations of it, certainly. So I think it's still there. I think it sits there like mold.

It just sits there. And it sits in the minds of a lot of people like Massey. And even though he's zeroed them, he has not zeroed them.

“I don't think by any means, and I think Vance knows it.”

And Bungino certainly knows it. With Gates, look, it is, you're right. This was a good time to do his, any kept going on. I'm here voluntarily, did you see that? Which is kind of interesting.

I think this has hurt his reputation. Oh, yeah, no doubt. For a long, long, long time. I think he is. This is, he is going to suffer.

This is going to, he has done some amazing works.

I think his wife is looking, his ex wife is looking fantastic with all this different financial things. She's putting out and handling her image quite well throughout this whole thing.

“But I think he is permanently harnished.”

And I'm not sure how any conversation he has going for does not include this topic. So I think he has done enormous damage to himself by affiliate himself with abstine. And it was a great error in judgments. And it did put his philanthropy at work. I think it's there.

I think it's children. Hard work. All right. Let's go on a quick break. We come back.

Paramount lashes out against Netflix. Support for the show comes from Clavio. There's only so many hours in a day. Clavio's two powerful AI agents can make sure your team spends them on big things. The first Clavio AI agent turns your marketing ideas into reality instantly.

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Our paramount is accusing Netflix of waging a scorched earth campaign to kill its 110 billion-dollar deal with Warner Brothers and a letter to the DOJ. Paramount's chief legal officer, Megan Delberheim, says Netflix is trying to quote poison regulators and other stakeholders against the merger.

Netflix is calling the claims absurd.

“It's not the only thing paramount is doing to get the deal across the finish line.”

It's the only thing that's been reportedly submitted, a list of concessions to head off anti-trust lawsuit by California and several of their states. I'll include New York and possibly Massachusetts. I'm hearing recently, actually, I've gotten notes from people in Hollywood saying this thing is a little shakeier than it looks. I'm not so sure about that, but I'm surprised. I'm getting them.

The EU is also currently reviewing the merger and light of the backing of those middle Middle Eastern wealth funds. Thoughts anywhere? Of all the media CEOs, the one I know best, which isn't very well, is Ted's around us. And any campaign to try and undermine to undermine this would have to have Ted's blessing. And this just isn't Ted's style.

No. He's just going to wait and buy it when they fuck it up.

They're 80 billion dollars.

And I don't see any exterior lobbying of people who are clearly in Netflix's back pocket. I don't see a bunch of Democratic senators getting all jones up about this. So I just, it doesn't, it doesn't ring true for me. What does ring true is that some blue-state AGs are starting to look into it. And they follow their own.

Yeah. Yeah. And may file, may file suit, but I don't see it just when I read that. It doesn't, what I do, what I know about Ted. He's, Ted is kind of, you know, with Ted or Tars, he'll probably be like a diplomat.

Because he's just not the kind of person to shit post or go on the offensive against people.

“I think they're trash chalking it behind the scene.”

It's like because of the obvious situation, this has enormous amounts of debt on it. It's a lot.

But I interviewed him on stage in LA.

And I gave him a, you know, an opening. He's a creative community going to scream out and whore when this, when this acquisition closes. And because of the AI and, you know, to get trying to find efficiencies for overpaying, I gave him, I set him up to, and he just, he immediately pivoted to something else and said, He hopes they do well.

I, I just don't, he's just not that, he's not of that ilk. No, I think they're shooting themselves in their own feet. And they want to blame other people. They, this is, that sounds more accurate. Clotish every step of the way.

This, this acquisition feels clotish. And, and the, and the debt is the debt. That's what it is. And one of the things I want people to focus on is there's a huge amount of debt. They're going to, the ugliness is not now.

Even though there's a lot of ugly right now. It's going to happen once the deal is, is struck. Because these people cannot make keep the promises they've made. They're not very good promise keepers. Some might call the mendacious at times.

But they will not be able to keep up there. What they, they're saying they're going to do. And that's when the ugliness will truly start when they have to make these cuts, which have to be significant. No matter what they say, unless Ariel's in decides to just take his money and bankroll the whole thing, which I don't think he will. This is going to be tough for Hollywood.

And they know it.

“And I think they're going to, they're going to have real troubles.”

And then net, that's when Netflix comes in and sucks up all the pretty parts would be my guess. I actually think it probably closes so because I talked to an economist this weekend. And he said, it doesn't really fit the whole rate for monopoly in terms of streaming. If you factor in linear content from their flagship channel, CBSHV on HTV, the hypothetical combined platform gets roughly 20% of totally OSIR streamed in Netflix as it's 60.

In terms of total TV viewing time, a combined Warner Bros. Paramount streaming and TV all in would represent about 12.2%. If total US viewing TV watch time, and that's less than YouTube currently has it about 13%. In terms of box office sales, Paramount and Warner Bros represent roughly 25% of the domestic box office. And they're just so well connected with Trump. They'll end up selling off like SpongeBob Squarepants, so some regulator can feel like they've got a win or something or a divesting of some stupid children's program.

But I think this goes through. How's she has it at 75%? I think it's actually higher than that. Yeah, I just noticed a lot of Hollywood people and at the smart ones. I'm not talking about the dumb ones. I've been like, this feels bad. Something feels bad.

But I think it's largely the old and noise around CBS and the disaster, they're perpetrating there. But I think it's more, I just think the pain is going to come once the deal is done. That is where it's going to happen. And you're going to see, like, how are they going to get out of this box? And they're none of them are Houdini in that gang. So that's the problem.

We'll see. We'll see where it's going, but definitely the decided journey generals are involved. They're going to try to, they will get them to sell something up there. I am still very concerned about the backing of these Middle Eastern wealth fans owning this much of our media. But, you know, no one else seems to care. But I find that really.

And you will, we'll, they'll have to, they'll have to do a lot of favors for people going forward. And later, Ted's Rondos and YouTube, we'll take it all over.

And the, where you should watch as YouTube. And that's, like, that's pretty much how I feel and Disney to it, plus or extent. Anyway, last thing, Canada is the latest country to crack down on social media for teens. A government proposed to build this week to ban kids under 16 from using social media. The most companies can get exemptions that they've proved their platforms adequately protect young users.

It's not just Canada. As we said, across the pond, UK Prime Minister, Starmer is weighing a similar ban. It's, it's, it's across the world, but don't expect this to happen in the US, our embassy in London posted about the potential UK ban riding the United States favors. Corrential empowerment over government mandates, whatever.

Also worth noting, though Australia's social media ban is struggling. 70% of teens are still using social media. It's a corrential user report because they can get around this stuff.

“So I think it's more, it's teens continue to smoke after we put stuff on packs and made it harder by them.”

I don't really think that should be the goal there. But I think a society has to say this stuff sucks and is dangerous. So I don't mind just the saying of it. So how do you, how do you think about UK and then Canada doing this? I think it's great.

And I think it's over too. I don't, I don't think there's any reason why anyone under the age of 16 should be on a social media platform. I think one of the greatest threats to our society is that we're evolving in new species of a social, a sexual male. And the 40% of the S&P is now tied to trying to convince these people to sequester from their relationships and be online.

And part of the problem is just as their brain is getting wired through puberty.

You're teaching them to have constant visual stimulation and be staring at a certain, I mean, there's even evidence now that they're postures changing. How lean you over? Yeah, unless you have the back to your hand or tall, right? Unless you have collective action.

And I do think these bands, you know, people, schools aren't going to allow you to have a phone. If you're a preschool or middle school, you're not allowed to have a phone. I mean, anyways, I think this is, it took us 30 years to figure out to back or regulated. It took us 20 years with opioids. It looks like social one on mobile in 2013.

It looks like it's going to take us exactly about 20 years. The group is leading on this. It's weird to describe you represent innovator on regulation. But as somebody who has grown up with kids in the kill zone, exactly the wrong age, and exactly the wrong time, you know, a lot of people will say to me,

I'm really worried I have a 5 and 8 year old. I'm like, no, no, you're fine. We'll have this figured out by the time they're 13 and 14. But if you went through COVID as a teenager and grew up with social media,

“I really think you faced some significant headwinds in terms of emotional regulation.”

I do.

Can I make another, first of all, as I said, it's a, it's a sign that society thinks it's important.

Just like we did with cigarettes or seat belts. Not everywhere, seat belts, not lots of teen smokes. Guess what, lots of teen's drink, even though we have rules. It's a society saying to its citizens, we think this is bad. You can cheat and they will.

No question. I think that argument is so false. Oh, teens will get it anyway. I'm like, okay. They'll get liquor anyway.

They'll get everything. So I think that's number one. It says something about your society that you care enough. And it isn't mandating. It's just saying, like, as with cigarettes, as with drinking, we show our teen shall not do this.

And I think that's perfectly fine. And, you know, the people that say it's not there. They're not paying attention to everything else. The second thing is, I do think social media is on the decline among young people. Not among our people who are addicted, fatally addicted to these things.

But I do think, I watch a lot of young people. And I know a lot of them are on there. But I think the age is a little higher. I would put an answer to that.

“I think it's declining among wealthy and formed.”

Right. People who have strong parental influences and the money and the resources. Yep. Get engaged in other things. Good point.

I think if you're, if you're the child of a single mother, home alone a lot. I don't know. I mean, even among young men. I know, supposedly, man ages 20 to 30 or spending more time in less time outdoors and prison inmates. They're on a fucking screen and just to just to go to the same way.

No, I think I'm talking about social media. Some of the scam I agree.

But just, the big tax excuse has always been, we can't find.

It would be impossible for us to detect underage users. Guess what? When Australia passed an act, the platforms deactivated nearly 5 million teen accounts in just one month. They were able to figure it out. And meanwhile, that very same detection is being withheld from Americans.

Because our federal government has no interest in protecting children from the harms of social media. The kids online safety act passed the Senate 91 to 3. And then died when House GOP leadership refused a floor vote. So the bills been reintroduced and is stalled again. A March house markup was pulled amid partisan fights over preemption.

And 40 bipartisan state attorney generals are begging Congress to act,

So this is like you bring in the data, Scott. Well, the last federal law protecting kids online was Coppa and it was in 1998. So wait, let me, you don't think the world has changed in 28 years regarding technology and the potential harm for children. Come on. I would not ask you.

“I don't, I think Australia's not working is not the question.”

It is teens will find a way, but I do think a society stepping out and saying it. And let me just note, I don't know if you saw this. The trailer just came out for the social reckoning, which is the follow up to the social network. Jeremy Strong is from succession is playing Mark Zuckerberg. He's got the voice on down pat, although he looks too old.

I have to say these oddly looking old. But it's all about this. It's all about, and it's, you know, it's a story of Francis Howe getting really pretty much. And this Facebook files, and how this, they had all, they knew what they were doing. And they did it anyway.

And this was the first, to me, this was the moment that Zuckerberg went villainous, right?

That he, that he started understanding to something that I'd written about in the times of 2018. This came out in 2019, 2021 period. But this was the moment.

“And I think this movie will be really interesting by Aaron Sorkin.”

Once again, revisiting this issue is that this guy is living large on the backs of teens, on the backs of kids, on the backs of everybody. And I don't think it's going to be great for the image. And I think it's, to say it again and again has to happen, including these laws, these movies, and everything else. And Jeremy Strong literally sounds so much like him. It's disturbing.

So the ability of Big Tech to wash over Washington and separate them from the best interests of our children with money. You know what's gotten the way of the kids online safety act better known as Kosa? It forces platforms to exercise open-quote reasonable care in designing features, so they prevent and mitigate specific harm to miners. Things including content promoting suicide, eating disorders, sexual exploitation, and compulsive use patterns. Big Tech is fighting those things.

Yeah, that's because they go, oh, it could be used for this.

They go behind their first amendment nonsense that they tend to try to push out there.

You can't anticipate. I just want the society to say no to this, just like kids with phones and schools. No. No.

“And that's what a civil society does to these companies.”

Whether they're cigarette companies, liquor companies, by the way, liqueurs on the decline. This, I think social media is going to decline more than you think. I think that's my prediction anyway. All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions. [Music] Hi, I'm Maria Sharapova, host of the Pretty Tough Podcast.

Each episode, I sit down with high-achieving women to discuss the pursuit of excellence without apology. This week, model sports illustrated cover girl and entrepreneur Ashley Graham talks about the time she almost quit. I called my mom and I said, mom, I just, I'm not going to do this anymore. And she told me, no, you are going to stick this out. Your body is going to change someone's life. Every decade, you're going to go through something different.

So be really happy with who you are right now because things change. Check out Pretty Tough. New episodes on Wednesdays, you can watch it on YouTube or listen in your favorite podcast app. [Music] Big news this week for all my Gordon Geckos, my Robin Hootters, my Cloud Squad, andthropic, which is newly the most valuable AI company in the world, announced it would be going public.

That news follows reporting that open AI plans to go public as soon as September. And that, that news follows reporting that Space X, which also considers itself an AI company, will be going public in maybe just a few weeks from now. Welcome to the era of the Omega IPO. [Music]

We are about to see millionaires, billionaires, and yes, probably even the world's first

trillionaire created overnight. And yes, it's that guy. This is the chainsaw of your accuracy. Turns off. But all the tech froze, we're going to make all the money. They need our money way more than we need their products.

And we're going to remind you why on today's explain from box. [Music] So the 2026 midterms is shaping up to be an all-out brawl. But the biggest fight may not be between Democrats and Republicans, but over the congressional maps itself.

Germander is not a good thing. We don't like it. And then all of a sudden, we're going out and telling people, "Voke for this." So I'm in Ashland, Virginia, a small town just outside of Richmond, which calls itself the center of the universe.

And that checks out because it's the center of the political universe, at least when it comes to the 2026 midterms. That's because Ashland sits in Virginia's first congressional district, which is one of only about 35 or so that are actually competitive.

when it comes to the question of Jerry Mandry. The Jamie Manning is a major problem. But it's not like Democrats drew first blood with this one. Donald Trump doesn't think he should be held accountable by anybody, so he's trying to change the rules because it doesn't like the game.

We've shown what we're capable of. Now let's keep up the push through the midterms. America actually will be in your feeds and on YouTube every Saturday, with an interesting interview and politics or culture. OK, Scott, let's hear up prediction.

Well, one is a simple funny one and the other one is my serious, but the simple one is sure about the C revenues that the 100 biggest podcast go up 20 to 30%. Yeah. That's additional just from.

Like everybody, everybody make their wagers. Pivot is about to get a great deal of money. And so is every other big podcast to be the quote unquote, to be the, to have the exclusive. They've already come knocking.

I don't care if it's Yahoo, Scout, or Gemini. These guys are all going to, we're about to,

“sometimes she, I remember that all that cheap cheap money”

that was thrown around in 99. And that was mattresses. That was mattresses. I mean, you're about to see the podcast universe have the tsunami of money just to say, hey Joe,

we'll give you 10 million bucks if you decide

that you only use open AI. Right. Anyways, that's my stupid simple one, but the more specific one is that, I mean, look, it fixes in.

And I just think it's so fucking obvious, must call Trump after doing a lot of analysis. This is bankers and said, you know, I spent $250 million to get you elected, and probably said, no, you can get me elected.

So well, can you acknowledge that I helped? And so yeah, I was like, I'm considering putting two and a half billion into the midterms. I would you like that, President Trump.

I'm like it a lot. Well, if you get Paul Arkens over the SEC to wave that stupid rule that doesn't allow retail investors from participating in great companies like SpaceX, I just have this hankering to put in two,

three, maybe $5 billion into the midterms. Hankering, hankering, yes. And again, what does that do?

It sends $30 to $50 billion in incremental

dollars hunting for a hundred billion and available shares of SpaceX. This is all of a sudden, there's 50% more people looking for homes in San Francisco than there was.

There was with any other previous IPO, and let's just do the math. Say that takes the price of SpaceX up just, let's be conservative, 10%. At two trillion, that's 200 billion,

he owns 40%. So he gets $80 billion. Why wouldn't you promise the president 10 billion in the midterms? Citizens United, he can do whatever the fucking wants.

So if he called the president and said, hey, call Paul and tell them to do away with the stupid rule. Such that retail, good Americans can't invest in the best companies.

And I got a hankering to put $10 billion to work in the midterms. I mean, quite frankly, wouldn't you be stupid not to do them? Yes, absolutely.

“That's how it works, that's how it works.”

You know, as my prediction is the fixes in what people aren't focused on is this, the waving of the NASDAQ 100 rules that you've got a way to year and let price settles is going to create the ultimate

false flag signal of pricing on the day of this IPO. That's what they're doing. Oh, they're all clocking it up and you're like, oh, you people. And 70s right morality is nothing to do with it.

I could never be an investment banker.

I couldn't be a lawyer either. I wouldn't be like your guilty. You should go to jail. I'm going to turn you in. I just couldn't do it.

Same thing with that. You suck. I'm not going to take you public. I just couldn't do it. Whatever someone has to.

Anyway, that was a great prediction. I think you're absolutely right. And about the podcast thing, yay. Yeah, yay for us. But we'll take.

We'll cash those checks though. But you investment bankers are either there. You know what I mean.

“Let me say, how fucked am I that he's going to be a trillion there?”

I've got a fucked or nay. Well, I'm I'm all on board now. I love this kind of pointless economist out of the UK. Gary Stevenson. And he, he totally changed my frame of mind.

And that is taxes are a Kevlar against corruption. Because when people advocate too much money, they become corrupt. You know, power corrupts and absolute power absolutely corrupts. And our taxes are what stands between us.

And having one person who can decide when to turn off and on battlefield technology in the invasion of Europe. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think you'll like hiring army just for me?

I don't know. I just. I feel like oh, no. Was he irritating before? But now I'm fucked.

Anyway, elsewhere in the Karen Scott universe. This week on Prophecy Conversation Scott spoke with Anne Applebaum. What am I favorite stew and Fiona Hill?

What a pair.

About how Ukraine is rewriting the rules of warfare.

They hidden weaknesses of authoritarian regimes and the future of global power. Let's listen to a clip.

“I think actually what Ukraine could show is that the beneficiaries of all of this ought”

to be society. The private sector, the innovators. And that we need to find some kind of model after this refresh. After all of the justice subtlety or while the justice settling,

to basically get ourselves back into gear again.

So a trillion plus defense budget that's going to be top down is not the way to go to all of your absolute rights. That is not to the model.

“A lesson from this is that soft power is underrated and hard power is overrated.”

Correct.

And we've just gotten it all wrong.

Scott, I'm glad you did those two ladies. They're they're badass. Yeah, I was our 400th episode and they asked me who I wanted to show. And I said either an Apple bomber Fiona Hill and they said we'll get both. So I was totally excited.

I was totally excited about mom. The women shall save us. Yeah, impressive women. Anyway, we want to hear from you.

“Send us your questions about business check or whatever's on your mind.”

Go to NYMag.com/pivix and then a question for the shore. 8551, pivot. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot. Be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel.

We'll be back next week. Today's show is produced by Lara Naman. So I'm Marcus Taylor Griffin and Todd Wiseman. Thanks for watching. Thanks for listening to Pivot.

We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business.