428: Patrick Clancy Labeled Chris Watts 2.0 | Online Theories Say He Killed His 3 Kids and Framed Lindsay

It was their father, Patrick Lansy, who discovered his children's lifeless bodies.

“Lansy Lansy Lansy is innocent, and Patrick Lansy is actually the one that committed a crime.”

Saying that Patrick Lansy is responsible for the killings of his children is absolutely ridiculous. You could just feel how the father in him was breaking. Patrick Lansy is looking at an awful lot like Chris Wantsy lately. Hey Drew Crane Besties, welcome back to an all-new episode of "Serialisly." Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to an all-new episode of "Serialisly."

With me or host Annie Elise, now for all of my YouTube watchers, you can see this isn't the normal set. We are in a makeshift temporary area within the office because I'm doing a full set revamp with like new lighting, new equipment, all the things. So here I am coming to you from my conference room, but here's a thing.

“I knew I needed to jump on here and talk with you guys about this subject matter.”

We've already talked about the Lindsay Clancy case together, and if you missed that, which there actually is a possibility that you did miss it because I put that episode on my other true crime podcast feed, 10-to-life, that came out last, what was it? About two a week or two weeks ago, where I did a full deep dive into the case, but I'm sure so many of you are following the case yourselves, or have heard about it. Maybe you're seeing it on social media, the trials happening right now.

And so basically, let me run you through what happened and why I'm here now again today

to talk with you about new developments in this case. So first we talked about the Lindsay Clancy case as a whole. The allegations of postpartum psychosis, the fact that she killed her three children using exercise

“bands because she was allegedly experiencing postpartum psychosis, her husband Patrick who”

stood by her advocated for her after she was arrested, then went on to get remarried and have a family of his own and now she's on trial. So we talked about the backstory of everything. Then started talking through headline highlights, which is my Thursday episode about the trial updates. And what really was interesting is starting in trial week one, I feel like people started turning against Patrick, not in a huge way. But in a way of just saying this guy, you know, he failed his

wife, the doctor has failed her. I can't believe he's already moved on. He has a new family. There were allegations that he had been cheating on her with his now wife. And people were just kind of calling him out as an overall dirt bag bad guy. And really feeling some empathy for Lindsay not only because of the postpartum psychosis and postpartum depression element to everything, but because she just had this seemingly unreliable trash bag of husband. And I'm just saying, you know, kind of

saying that loosely, then last week, everyone started turning against him even more. And I talked a little bit about this last week in headline highlights. But I started noticing at the very beginning of the week that the tide was turning against Patrick, not just anymore of him being the deadbeat husband or the asshole who moved on too early, the guy who went on trips while his wife was in inpatient treatment. But started turning on him in a way of saying, Lindsay didn't even

kill her three children. Patrick did. He framed Lindsay for this entire thing. Now I'll be honest

with you. When I first saw that, which was like, gosh, when was that? Probably like a week ago,

maybe a little longer. It was like a couple of people saying it. Not that many. And in my mind, I was like, oh, you know, these are the conspiracy theorists. They're coming out. They're trying to make this something different than what it really is. But nobody's going to take this seriously. Within a matter of 48 hours, when I tell you hundreds of thousands of people were now sharing that same sentiment, I was floored. I couldn't even believe that I what what I was saying.

But then they started citing a lot of the reasons for why they believe that, such as the crime scene, not aligning with Lindsay doing this herself. Her DNA, not being on any of the murder weapons. The pills that she consumed being crushed, therefore allegedly snuck in to her food or drink.

So as I was going through everything, and again, I know we talked about this on Thursday a little bit. I started asking myself, like, well, I wasn't asking myself. I was telling myself I was like, a lot of these things seem to be explainable. Either a coincidence or could be explained away personally, the CVS footage where people are calling out that he changed to shoes.

“They look like the same shoes to me. I think it could have just been the camera angle or the lighting,”

or whatever it may be. But then more and more things started coming up. And I want to say this right

now. Okay. First and foremost, I still believe in my heart that Lindsay Clancy did this.

She also has signed an admission of guilt in court saying that she did this. And it's my belief that over the last three years since this horrific triple murder happened, if she had any sort of doubt or question in her mind that she is the one that she was the one responsible, her defense team would have worked that up and she wouldn't have signed an admission of guilt and now be on trial, which the trial isn't a determined if she is guilty or innocent. It's to determine

was she legally insane at the time of these murders or was this, you know, premeditated, can she be held accountable to the full extent. So my point is that there was enough conversation

out there. So much so that I did headline highlights last week touched on it a little bit. I also

did an in-promp to live over on Patreon because sometimes I do this. If you're in Patreon, you know that. I'll be at my house and breaking news will happen and I'll just jump on a live stream from there and talk with you guys about it. And still, the amount of people who were giving credence to this and saying no, Patrick is responsible, comparing Patrick to Chris Watts. Now the comparison with that and with the thought behind that is that because Chris Watts had a mistress and seemingly wanted

to start this brand new shiny family with her, Nicole Cassinger, that that was also what Patrick Clancy wanted. He already was seeing his now wife. He wanted a fresh start. His wife was a drag because she was experiencing postpartum depression and postpartum psychosis and he leveraged that illness to frame her to where he could execute this master plan and then move on with his life and also get a huge, you know, financial benefit to it as well because he's suing some of the

doctors, the drug companies, things like that. I don't believe it to be true. I believe Lindsey is responsible, as I said. But if you heard my original leave dive, I will link it here for you too. If you heard my original leave dive, you also know that I believe she was another victim of this entire thing. I think she was failed by her medical team, her husband, doctors, just everybody. And it's a tragedy. I also shared my own personal experience related to the topic. So you can go back

and listen to that episode if you haven't listened to it yet. But the reason I wanted to do today's episode is because as I said, there are enough people out there who truly believe that this is true and that Patrick is responsible that I want to just share with you why. I want to share the theories

“that they're citing the inconsistencies because the truth is there are some inconsistencies that”

don't really make sense. And again, the truth of it is too, there wasn't ever a full investigation done at the house, which is also the crime scene because it seemed pretty cut and dry. Lindsey did this. And so there wasn't any sort of, you know, digital footprint examined. There wasn't any look into patterns, phone pains, anything like that because there wouldn't have been because this wasn't a typical murder investigation. So again, sorry, I kind of can't get in ahead of myself here.

But my purpose in today's episode is because I want to put the question out to you. I'm going to let you know everything that people are saying that make them suggest that Patrick is the one responsible. And I'm curious then to know what you think. Do you think these are just a ton of red herrings? Or do you think that there is something deeper here going on? I've already told you

“where I said with this. It's no secret. However, I will say this. I am the first one where if”

something came out major and it showed that Patrick was in fact responsible. I'll be the first

one to acknowledge it and be like, holy shit, I was wrong. I was so wrong. I missed the mark. I should have gotten caught up in the conspiracy of it all. I don't see that happening. But again, if it does, I'll be the first one to jump back up on here and tell you guys, you know, hey, I was wrong. But I just want to know what you believe once I outlined this for you. Because as I said, it's some of this is a fair argument. Okay, there are some things that make

you kind of wonder like what the heck really is going on here. So what I have here in front of me, I have my nose of again, all of the different theories. And I have them all bucketed into separate

we can really talk about each bucket as a whole as we're going through. So this is kind of a follow-up

“to a case that I assume if you're listening, you already know the nuts and bolts about it. But again,”

take a moment. If you are not familiar with that case, pause this episode, go back, listen to the deep dive from two weeks ago. I also will link it in the show notes so that you get fully caught up. But I also think you probably have been seeing this on your feed in your social media because the trial is happening right now. Okay, so let's talk about the crime scene. The first thing that people are pointing to is that Lindsey Clancy did not speak with first responders at the crime scene.

That was because she was found unresponsive after we know she jumped out at which some people are saying she was pushed out of a second story window. This was an attempt to take her own life. She failed. She had superficial cuts, but she also threw herself out of this window and she is now paralyzed

from the waist down. However, here's what people are citing. She didn't speak with first responders

because she was unresponsive. However, she did speak to Patrick long enough to tell him that the children were in the basement. Emergency personnel also testified that she was breathing, but that she was unable to communicate, just lying there completely in mobile in the backyard, requiring a sea spine collar and a long board due to the severe spinal injuries, which if you know what that is, that's kind of not like a gurney, but it's the board that they put you on,

the big, like, clasp around your neck and it goes to your back, and so, with an awful condition. Paramedics also said that the only sounds that she made were occasional screams as she was repeatedly trying to remove her oxygen mask while being prepared for transport. And look, she went

out of a second story window. That fall, it caused significant injuries, injuries that ultimately

left her paralyzed from the waist down, as I said. However, going back to why this is such a big issue and a point of conversation right now, Patrick had recalled finding Lindsay severely injured outside of their home after this fall, and when he asked her what happened, according to him, she said, "I tried to kill myself." Patrick then asked her as a follow-up question where are the children, and she reportedly responded that they were in the basement. So, people are curious, you know,

make this make sense, how was she well enough to communicate to him what her intention was to try to take her own life and then also tell him where the children were, but then within moments, she's completely unresponsive, she just has the occasional screams, she's not communicating, and it, you know, she kind of goes dark in that sense. And I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here as we go through

“it because I think this could be explained. I think that perhaps the shock had either set in immediately”

or not set in immediately after she went out the window and that she still could speak a little bit, and then her body either went into shock or because she was in shock before, she wasn't in as much pain, whatever vice versa, but to where those first few moments were not, I don't want

to say not as critical, but like not as restrictive, if that makes sense, to where she was then

able to communicate and then she wasn't. I think it's possible. However, another piece of that is that when she arrived at South Shore Hospital's emergency department on January 24th, 2023, which very cold time in Massachusetts, this was after her 20 foot fall, her core body temperature was 82.1 degree Fahrenheit, which that indicates severe hypothermia. Emergency doctor Dr. Kelly McDonough and trauma surgeon Dr. Christina Carpeo both testified about her condition, and during the trial, the

defense attorney argued that the prolonged exposure to the cold may have slowed her circulation, affecting the amount of bleeding from the superficial cuts to from her wrists and her neck. However, the doubt that comes in with this theory is that based on, if you go back to the

“Karen Reed case, and again, this is one I think probably most of you are familiar with,”

John O'Keefe, Karen Reed's then boyfriend who, unfortunately, passed away. His body temperature was recorded at 80 degrees, when he was left in the snow for that prolonged period of time, hours longer than Lindsey was officially outside. So people are saying, if she was only outside for 30 minutes, how did her body temperature drop so drastically to 82 degrees when John O'Keefe was literally buried in the snow for hours and his only dropped to 80.

I'm not a doctor, obviously, and I don't know shit about temperatures, but I will say this. I did talk to some medical experts because I was curious about this when I heard it. And apparently, when your body suffers such severe trauma, broken bones, a traumatic event, PTSD, internal injuries, organ injuries, whatever it may be, it is possible that your

So, again, playing devil's advocate here, that certainly could happen, but people are pointing

to something more nefarious here. Talking to her body temperature and her injuries and all of that, let's talk about this. The thyroid injury, Lindsey had a crushed thyroid amongst her other injuries, the broken bones, her paralysis from the waist down. She also had a crushed thyroid injury. So, this theory now stems from the ideology that that thyroid is located in the front of the neck, which that could indicate a potential strangling attempt or some sort of struggle while placing

something around her neck, which is interesting when you take into consideration that the children were murdered by the method via strangulation with exercise bands. So, once again, people are saying she had a crushed thyroid. She must have been strangled before. He may have tried to use one of those exercise bands on her, but he thought it worked, but she just passed out and then he threw out the

“window and it didn't work and she was still alive and that's why she has the crushed thyroid.”

Possible. Absolutely possible. Playing devil's advocate. I think that falling out of a second

story window and taking a 20-foot fall, who knows what kind of injuries are going to occur. Again, I'm not an expert. I don't know if you can suffer a crushed thyroid from that or if perhaps she tried to, and I'm trying not trying to get graphic here, but maybe she did try to hang herself or use the exercise bands on herself as she allegedly had used them on her children and it didn't work and that's what made her just make the choice to hurl herself out of the

second story window. Possible. I don't know. There's another thing that kind of folds into this before I move on to the other aspects is the medication that was in Lindsay's system. It's no secret that she was over-prescribed lots of medication and that she was on a mixture of like a very

“crazy cocktail of strong-ass prescriptions that would no doubt affect her mental state, no doubt”

in my mind. However, there were crushed pills that were found on the nightstand in her room next to to a cup that said "because kids." Now, the general thought is that Lindsay had crushed the pills up before ingesting them herself and before self-harming. However, other people say, if she was trying to self-harm and take the medication, she would have just popped the pills regularly. There would be no need to crush them up, so they believe that Patrick is the one who crushed

them up a lot, quarry richins, and then put them in Lindsay's drink or food or whatever to stage some sort of overdose or to impair her to such an extent that she was in a delusional state. Some also believe that the pills were crushed and potentially given to the children before they were killed so that they were not fully coherent at the time in which they were killed, which personally, one can only hope that that's the case and that they were not aware of what was

happening to them at the hands of their own mother, somebody who they loved and felt would always

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item per box for one year, while supplies last until October 31st, 2026. That's code AE50 off at factor meals.com, AE50 off at factor meals.com, see website for details. It's also talk about the nanny situation, okay? Elaine Rossi, the family's former part-time nanny, testified during the trial, and she testified that in the months leading up to the killings, Lindsay had lost a significant amount of weight, also that she struggled to sleep and that she

frequently spoke about her postpartum mental health. However, despite those concerns,

the nanny told the jurors during this trial that she never believed that Lindsay was a danger to

herself or a danger to her children. She described her as a wonderful mom. She said she loved her. She said that Lindsay loved her kids and that she was deeply concerned for their safety, making sure that they were eating well, sleeping well, always safe. And she also mentioned that she worked about 12 hours a week at the time, working for this family. She was looking after their son, Calen, and once Lindsay returned to work, she would strictly be taking care of Calen,

sometimes Kora and Dawson, indicating that Elaine was mostly hired to assist Patrick, not Lindsay. So this is where people once again are kind of like, okay, I've seen different arguments here,

“I've seen some people saying, okay, she had an nanny, she had all the resources, why was she suffering?”

Let me start by saying this. That is the most ignorant thing I think I've ever heard. It doesn't matter how much your resources, your help, your wealth, anything like that, mental illness, and postpartum psychosis, it does not discriminate. It's not going to pick and choose the best victims to attack. So that's one piece of it. However, when she had said that she worked primarily looking after Cal, and that once Lindsay returned to work, she would only be taking care of Cal, sometimes Kora and Dawson,

appear that she was mostly going to be helping Patrick out because Lindsay would be back at work. And not that that means anything necessarily, but it's one more thing that I think people are trying to use to bolster their argument. Now let's talk about, I'm going to get into the DNA of it all in a minute. Let's just take a pause on that. Here's another thing that is interesting. Well hospitalized at the women's hospital and well, Lindsay was getting care on January 29,

2023, after the murderers. Lindsay requested to change her health care proxy from her husband, Patrick, to her parents. That was an interesting move because the request led to a psychiatric evaluation to determine whether or not she had the mental capacity and ability to make that decision independently. As I chi-atrest testified, that Lindsay had initially experienced ICU delirium, and that there was some confusion after her spinal surgery, but as that cleared, she consistently

maintained her decision that she wanted to change her health care proxy. It wasn't some delusional state. It wasn't something where she wasn't of sound-mind. She was consistent. She wanted

change, telling the doctors that she felt that her parents were supportive and that they would

“have her best interest in mind. And that's interesting because why wouldn't you think that your”

husband and father of your children would have your best interest in mind? Unless, of course, here I am coming back in to play Devil's Advocate. At that point, it's so fresh. It's just days after the murders. I could see a world in which she's lying there, paralyzed, realizing what had

happened and saying, "He's never going to forgive me. I took his children away from him. He hates me.

If there's any life-saving measures for me, he's not going to take them and not necessarily realizing yet or being notified yet that he was in fact standing by her side in those early weeks and months." So, I could see both sides of it. I see why she wanted to change to her parents, because they would have her best interest in mind no matter what. She's their daughter, but I could also see where people are like, why would she be changing it away from Patrick

unless she was fearful of him, unless she didn't trust him. I see both sides of the argument there. So, an ICU nurse named Megan testified that the evaluation for Lindsay took place on January 29th in January 30th. There was a very small team present, including medical staff. There was a social

worker, psychiatrist professionals, and Lindsay's defense attorney. So, during the trial,

both of these sides examined the decision as part of the broader question of Lindsay's mental state and her cognitive ability to make decisions following this horrific tragedy. So,

“again, I think there can be an argument made for both sides. Now, I want to go back up to”

let's go into, let's actually go into the 911 call, okay, and the phone not working. This is a theory that stems from Patrick's testimony himself when he was asked about the delay in the 911 calls. According to Patrick, his phone was toggling between Wi-Fi calls and regular calls, creating a delay in connection to the dispatch. And at one point, he said that he almost called out for neighbors to help, but that he eventually got through. So, the theory here is that

the delay in the 911 calls was because he was waiting for Lindsay to succumb to her injuries, or because he wanted to make sure that the drugs had hit her and that she was going to be in a delusional state and wouldn't remember and all of these things. But again, on the flip side of that, you could also easily argue that it's just as what Patrick explained. That his phone was going back and forth between Wi-Fi calls, regular calls. There was a delay that, yeah, I was going to call

out to a neighbor for help, but then it started working. My call went through. It's tough because wow, a lot of these things are compelling. They're not concrete in saying, that, you know, that is enough of a hard line and hard evidence to indicate somebody's guilt. Although,

I'll be the first to say, generally when I cover cases, if there are this many inconsistencies,

my saying is where they're smoke their fire. I don't necessarily believe that, though, in this case. But here's where we do get into, well, actually, before I get to the DNA, let's talk about the footage, okay? Because this has been something that a lot of people are dissecting out there on the internet. The infamous restaurant in CVS footage. As we know, Lindsay had sent Patrick out to run some errands that evening when she then executed the horrific murders on her children.

However, a lot of the online speculation now has been focused on Patrick's movements. His movements from the restaurant, CVS, all of these things, because in images from the CCTV footage, people share what they believe to be him wearing different shoes, that he was wearing boots when he picked up the takeout at the restaurant and that he was then wearing sneakers inside the CVS. Saying it's he changed his shoes because he noticed there was blood on them from when he

made those cuts on Lindsay's body and he had to change. They also point to a sweater change,

“a jacket change, which I think, again, it's the winter in Massachusetts. It's cold as hell.”

I understand why you would maybe be layered at a certain point and not layered, or if you have an extra pair of shoes in your car and your shoes get sloshy with Sna, who knows? But also, like I said, the shoes kind of look the same to me in both of the images. I don't think it's overly compelling, at least not to me. It looks like it could just be a different angle, a different lens, a flash, something like that. However, in some of the images,

I mean, I guess I'll make the argument. They do look a little bit different, but again, they are likely the same shoe, just different video quality. But a lot of people point to this as him trying to cover things up, trying to change, try to get rid of evidence and get rid of clothing. Now, another piece of this that I would say out of all of the theories probably is the most compelling one. It comes down to the DNA, and I should say the lack of DNA, okay? Because Patrick's DNA was identified

Court testimony and stipulations explained that because Patrick is the one who removed the bands

from the children's necks after discovering them, that his DNA was transferred to the bands, and therefore was also, you know, read through as evidence. Testing found DNA from all five family members on the blue band. While the yellow band contained a mixture consistent with Patrick, Kallen, and Dawson, not Lindsey. So people are saying, asking, I should say, if her DNA wasn't found

“on the murder weapon, how was that possible, and how is she being held responsible for this?”

The forensic analyst explained that interpreting the DNA mixtures was very complicated, because the individuals involved were close biological relatives who, of course, as we know, share significant genetic similarities. And although Patrick, Kallen, and Dawson were all considered

possible contributors to the yellow band sample, the results could not confirm that all three

were present in the specific mixture that was tested. Both sides agreed to the DNA findings, though, through a court stipulation, and the defense also does not dispute that Patrick's DNA was present due to his efforts to remove those bands and help the children. I also think, if you're familiar with exercise bands, they're rubbery, they're stretchy, it's possible, and like, look, I know fingerprints can be detected even partials on so many different surfaces,

but I can't help but wonder if on these rubber tight bands when you're stretching them, if your finger is sliding, if it's making an impression to where you're not going to get a clean pickup of a print, and then, but if you're slowly then picking them, like, taking the exercise band apart, and again, I don't want to be too graphicier, but untying it. It's more of a print that would go in, rather than like, how you palm one normally, if that makes sense, you palm

and like, pull it tight. And again, I apologize if that's illustrating what happened to graphically, but this is again, one of the more, it not concrete, but one of the more compelling theories out there as to why people are asking, his DNA was on it, hers wasn't, make that make sense, you know, so then it gets into motive, okay? Like, why would he do this? If Patrick did try to annihilate his entire family, try to kill Lindsay, but it didn't work, so now he's trying to frame her, why would he even

try to do that? What would make him do that? Well, let's talk about New York for a second.

During Cross Examination, Patrick testified that while he was in New York for two nights, Lindsay had remained home alone, caring for all three of the children. He also said that Lindsay appeared to be doing much better in November 2022, which was just a couple of months before the killings, although her anxiety and depression increased after his return from New York, and that's

“really important, okay? So defense attorney, for Lindsay, are you that if Lindsay had been planning”

to harm the children, she would have had plenty of opportunities earlier, including during that two-day New York trip that Patrick took, or the other many times that Patrick left her alone, and Patrick agreed that in theory, this was possible, she did have plenty of other opportunities, really supporting the defenses argument that the killings were a result of a sudden psychiatric crisis, rather than this pre-meditated long-term plan. But this rolls into the next theory about

New York, where people believe that his trip to New York was actually the catalyst in what made Lindsay spiral, because many people believe that Patrick was not in New York for business reasons, but he was there for pleasure. There is a lot of speculation about when he met his current wife, and that there may be some overlap. We also know that she did live in New York at the time. He moved to New York. It was between four and six months after the murders, and, you know,

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“ABC, or local liquor store. So I think a lot of people have had a hard time from the beginning”

of how quickly he moved on, how quickly he remarried, how quickly he's having another child and not for nothing that his new wife is literally a dead ringer for Lindsay. It looks like her doppelganger through and through to a teeth. So people are saying, oh, he acted like the devoted dedicated yet distraught husband, one all of this happened, standing by Lindsay, being a hero in that sense. Oh my gosh, he's standing by her. He is being so forgiving and he

wants her to recover all these things. What a gem of a human being. Well, now that narrative is being called into question with people asking themselves or asking the public, I should say, was that all a show? Was that because he wanted to play the doding husband? Because he was moving on, he was going to move on. He was going to take his life into his own hands. This was all at his hands, this whole disaster and tragedy. I don't know. There's also a handful of users on social media

who believe that Patrick May have had his then girlfriend, now wife at the time, make the calls to CVS and to pick up dinner. Now, I don't really think that that happened. I mean, it could have, but I think that that also could be very easily debunked with phone records and there were phones searches as we know on Lindsay's phone. So we can't roll that out as well. But people are saying, oh, she's the one that called, they hatched this plan together. Very Nicole Kessinger, Chris Watts

feeling, I think that's a stretch personally. I don't believe it. But I know the internet loves a good conspiracy and they love to make things more salacious than they are, which, like I said at the beginning of this episode, if this proves to come out that Patrick did orchestrate this entire thing and it was like almost the perfect crime until the internet got involved and started asking the questions, it will be better than any true crime novel out there, better than Verity,

gone girl, girl on the train. But that's the thing I think people are getting swept up in. The fiction of it all that we have seen out there in the true crime space, not the non-fiction reality that these people are living in. And I think that it's good to ask questions, but sometimes I think it also can be incredibly dangerous and reckless. And that's why I'm trying to just kind of share

“with you these theories and put it on to you as far as like, what do you think the truth is? But I think”

a lot of it can be debunked as I said through phone records. However, going back to that initial

thing, there was never a thorough investigation done at the crime scene because there was no need.

So no other potential suspects were looked into, not a ton of evidence was collected. Phone records, surely, weren't combed through. I mean, yes, in the sense of Google searches, journal entries, notes, phone calls, but not where's the phone pinging? Where's this? Where's that? Which kind of leads me to another theory with the Apple Watch that people are talking about. Lindsay's Apple Watch was found in the bedroom. However, people are asking, okay, well,

but if she was going to make these cuts on her body and throw herself out the window, why would

she take time to take her watch off and put it down? I think there's a few explanations for that. I think it's, you remove a watch to get a good cut on your arm, right? Or you're taking off your personal effects and leaving them behind. I think there's explanations for that, but a lot of people are suggesting that it's because Patrick used her Apple Watch to text himself as Lindsay, regarding the restaurant, the CVS, and all of these things to help build that timeline more.

And kind of, and a call back to what we talked about earlier with her core body temperature. The reason people have a question to of how her body temperature dropped that low in just 30 minutes, their, the allegation with that is that she had been attempted to have been killed much earlier

“before the kids even, and that's why it dropped so much. So he did that, killed the children,”

then took the Apple Watch, was posing as Lindsay texting himself, left it on the thing. Again,

pretty grandiose, if you ask me, I don't believe that, but this is what the internet is running with. There's another Google search, too, that I want to talk about, where it's a, it was a Google search of, "Can you change a sociopath?" So prosecutors had pointed to Lindsay's phone search history, including searches about whether a person could change, whether they could be treated as a sociopath, and they looked at this as evidence of possible planning before the killings. The defense, though,

are you that the searches occurred during a period of severe mental decline that was caused by postpartum psychosis, also sleep deprivation and the mixture of all of these medications? Now, Patrick was not the person who made the search. There was absolutely no evidence suggesting

that it was directed at him, either. However, people say that it's highly suspicious that those

thoughts were occurring in the midst of all of this, alleging that if Lindsay were Googling, can you change a sociopath, or can a sociopath change that rather than her making that search about herself thinking that she was a sociopath because of what this mental illness was doing to her, that she was searching that because Patrick was a sociopath, that she knew about the affair, that he was evil, that she thought he was a sociopath, "Can you change a sociopath?"

So again, it's like, depending on how you want to interpret it, it could go either way.

“You could either say, "Yeah, that is a weird search." I think it was directed towards Patrick,”

or you could say, "No, I think through a searching it on herself," like being like, "I feel like a sociopath does that change." Like, "What are these thoughts?" And like, trying to make sense of it. There also is some talk about the bed that was moved in the bedroom and how it was shifted over. And I don't want to get too much into that because I don't think it's really, I don't think there's that much credibility in that either, but I want to throw it out there. Now, as for, again, not only

the motive, but the comparison of Patrick Clancy to Chris Watts. As we know, and if you don't know, I don't even know what to tell you. I will link the episode, and because I've done so many deep dives, not only on Chris Watts, but on Nicole Cassinger, of things, which if you want a fresh deep dive into Nicole Cassinger, let me know because I've been following updates with that woman four years and years and years, because in my heart, I do believe she was involved. But anyway,

“if you know that case, Chris Watts initially attempted to shift the blame for the deaths of his”

daughters to his wife, Shenan Watts. He created this whole fake storyline during the police interviews saying that Shenan is the one who killed the children, and that because he went into a blind rage, he then started strangling Shenan, and it was because he was so distraught over what she did to her kids. It really happened that whole thing after investigators had already brought up the possibility that Shenan could have harmed the children. Then he kind of rolled with it. It was almost like they

were spoon feeding him a possible story to see if he would take the bait, and he did like the complete moron he is. And so he claimed that he saw her attacking their daughter Celeste and then he killed Shenan in a moment of rage. Investigators later, though, said that Chris Watts kind of just like went with that scenario, that made up Shenario, all to protect himself. He also staged parts of the home to make it appear that Shenan had left voluntarily, including removing her wedding ring,

leaving it on the counter, and, you know, making those very cringey public pleas for his missing family to return. So once again, kind of how the wedding ring was left behind, the Apple Watch was left behind. As we know, the story fell apart as the investigator uncovered evidence that completely contradicted his claims and eventually he pled guilty to not only killing Shenan, but also his two daughters, Bella and CC. And he later provided details of what actually happened,

the truth of what happened and where he disposed of their bodies to the investigators. However,

having an affair. However, Watts was having an affair with Nicole Cassinger at the time of the murders,

and it seems like the motive in the Chris Watts case was that he did want to start this new life, this new family, everything with Nicole. Remember, she was Googling wedding dresses. She like had downloaded tips on how to take a needle. Like, it was weird. And again, deep guys out there, let me know if you want a new one, because there is so much lore with Nicole Cassinger. But people are bringing those comparisons together to say, oh, it was another man, like Chris,

who didn't want to go the hard route, which really isn't the hard route of just getting a divorce. He wanted to start over, clean slate, fresh start, and annihilate his whole family. But when Lindsay survived, that was unprotected and unprotected variable. So then, in that moment,

he had to switch gears and frame her. There's also been some conversation about how Lindsay had

said she heard voices that the voices she was hearing, warm voices in her head, but it was Patrick's voice that she was hearing, as he was executing this whole thing. So here's where I stand, and really quick, actually, before we move on, let me just say this, August 13th, it marks eight years since Shenan, CC, Bella, and unborn baby Nico were killed by Chris Watts. So it's been a while, but as you know, people are still making comparisons left and right with Chris Watts.

“So here's where I'm at. I think that a lot of these theories are interesting, and I think it is”

fair to ask the question to be concerned and to say this doesn't really make sense. Let's talk about it. It's not enough for me to sway my thoughts on this case. I still believe in my heart of hearts that Lindsay did this, and that she was a victim of postpartum psychosis. I also think that's why she signed an admission of guilt in court, why her story hasn't wavered in three years, and look, to be fair, it is possible that she was so heavily medicated at the time that this

happened, that she doesn't have any memory of what happened, and that she woke up and assumed that she did all of this because she already had previous ideations of it, and that she just went with that. But I would imagine that if there was even one seed of doubt that over the last three years her defense attorney would have run with that, that's my opinion. And I don't think there's a world in which, while this trial is still going on, even with the defense attorney, I'm sourcing

everything on social media. Nobody's going to switch anything. They're not going to like try to change it, and now blame Patrick for it. But of course, people are going to say he got away with the perfect murders, and that he now has his new shiny family that he wanted. I don't think that

“is the case here. I think that this is what it is at face value, oxen, oxen, oxen razor, you know,”

the most likely scenario is usually the scenario. I think she was suffering. I think she had a psychotic break and killed her children, tried to take her own life. It didn't work, and now she's on trial to determine if she was legally insane at the time. And I think that's where Patrick moving on. I think he just wanted to get on with his life. He made some really wonderful statements in the beginning in support of Lindsay and standing by her, and he did the marathon where he

wore items from his children during that marathon, as I think it's supposed to be cathartic for him. And yeah, maybe it is too soon that he moved on. But again, who's to dictate how people grieve and how they move on with their life? Is it a little weird that she has kind of a dead ring or doppelganger for Lindsay? Yeah, it's a little uncomfortable, but I also think that I, you know, I've seen that happen in other cases, too, where people have lost a spouse, and

they gravitate back to it unknowingly, even because it's some sort of level of comfort. So I wanted to just kind of throw all of this out to you and see what you guys think. And maybe at the time that this episode releases, there will be more information that has come out that creates new theories, new perspectives, new points of view, and I'll do follow up if you want, or probably we'll bake it into headline highlights. But as of right now, my thought on this case is unchanged.

I hope that Lindsay gets the help that she needs. Being in that courtroom, too, and having to

hear those 911 calls and see her children's autopsy photos. And hear about the first responders

trying to save her children, that cannot have been easy. And I'm not saying she gets a free pass.

“I think that regardless of the mental illness, she needs to be held accountable and, you know,”

three children were killed. And so that cannot just go, you know, swept under the rug. But I also do think that she was another victim in all of this because she was failed by her doctors, her husband, and just the health care system in general. And obviously through her journal entries, her, her most interpersonal thoughts expressing the fear and the thought,

trying to get treatment and get help. And was it failed? And put on a cocktail of very dangerous

“drugs. So curious to know what you think with all this, also, are there any other theories that”

maybe you have developed through following the trial that you want to share? Let me know in the

comment section. It's a tragedy for every single person involved, no matter what lens you look

“through. And so I just continue to pray over that entire family because it's it's unimaginable”

regardless where you sit on this, who what part of the family you're in, it's just devastating.

All right, guys, that is it for today. Thank you for tuning in to another episode. I will be

“back with you tomorrow, as a matter of fact, on my second true crime podcast feed, 10 to life,”

10 to life, brand new episodes, every single Tuesday. So go listen over there. And then I'll be back with you on this feed on Thursday with headline highlights where we talk about everything that's going on this week in the true crime world. So thank you so much for listening. Let me know your thoughts. Everybody, don't fight in the comments. Be respectful. And we'll see where this goes. All right, guys, thanks again and until the next one. Be nice. Don't kill people. Just get a divorce. And

protect your children. All right. Bye.