Pursuit

I'm Amanda Knox, and in the new podcast "Doubt," the case of Lucy Lepby, we unpack

the story of an unimaginable tragedy that gripped the UK in 2023. But what if we didn't get the whole story? "Out of space, it's the moment you look at the whole picture of the case, Colach." What if the truth was disguised by a story we chose to believe, oh my God, I think she might be innocent?

Listen to doubt, the case of Lucy Lepby, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Special Agent Regal, Special Agent Riley Hall. In 2018, the FBI took down a ring of spies working for China's Ministry of State Security, one of the most mysterious intelligence agencies in the world.

The sixth bureau podcast is a story of the inner workings of the MSS, and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets. Listen to the sixth bureau on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Clayton Eckard, in 2022, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor.

“But here's the thing, Bachelor fans hated him.”

"If I could press a button and rewind it all I would." That's when his life took a disturbing turn. A one-night stand would end in a courtroom. The media is here. This case has gone viral.

"The dating contract." "A great adate me, but I'm also suing you." This is unlike anything I've ever seen before. "I'm Stephanie Young. Listen to the love trapped on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

your podcasts." Of the Law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable. We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies these episodes are based on. These are our stories.

"Dun-dun!" Yay, that's messed up in SVU podcast. I'm Lisa Trager. And I'm Kara Klink. Every week, it's SVU episode recaps true crime, sometimes guests.

But not today. Um, and so let's chat a little bit. What's going on? What's the latest? The latest?

Um, nothing. I'm go-go-go, Sacramento. Thanks everyone for coming out and then the club had a fucking puppy adoption event for Valentine's Day before my show on one of the day. I got to go to the puppy and it was just like, I fell in love with this puppy.

It was really, really hard to not take him, but what are you going to do? And it's like all these little chocolate lab puppies. And so, um, they were called the chocolate chips, like as a group, as a collective. Chocolate? So, that was really cute.

No, I think a lot of my friends are worried for me because of the heated rivalry

“of it all, even though overall my life is better.”

But Saturday, I finally did have a moment where I go, maybe this is a problem.

I did have a day. Okay. Saturday. Okay. Because I finished the book on my flight to Sacramento, and then I was like, well, this

sucks. Saturday, I just listen to the score and re-read the book or watch the show or look at memes. And that's when I went, hmm, hmm, hmm, hmm, yeah. Because people keep telling me like, I'm so obsessed with heated rivalry.

I was like, you don't even know what the word obsessed means. You don't even come up with it. But the thing is, I have, I have some, well, I have one, I have a few like minor groups that are like into it. I only send them like super funny or specific to them that they would like, and then

I have one other crazy bitch, and like we send each other, I would say like seven to ten a day.

“And then I was about to send something, and I was about to send it to friend, like not”

her, and I was like, thank God they didn't say this. Oh, no. I'm like, if my friends saw this, they would release and out, like, an issue. I'm nervous. Yeah.

It's like about person, it's like, yeah, I'm glad I went to her. So I at least have like one, tether, I have like one person, together. I did send you a tasteful sweatshirt. It from Zach. No, I tell her.

Really, really, really good. Oh my God, but I did post. I was like, I want someone to recreate, because for Jared Goldstein's birthday, I got a miniature recreation of a jaws VHS tape, and then you open it, and it's a baby VHS, and it's jaw.

Yeah, I'm like, oh, they need to make a replica of Ilie on the cover of this hockey game. Like, someone will eventually make it, and no one's making it. So I post about it, because I'm pissed. And someone goes, it's Shane on the cover, not Ilie, because Bob and I wrote wrong, and then center photo of the game and she goes, oh my bad, I go, yeah, I don't know what you're

doing.

Yeah, that's like this intro's hard for me, I mean, I'm keeping up with Baldon beautiful, I'm watching So True, Caleb's podcast does have a chokehold on me, but other than that, I still haven't watched anything outside of heated rivalry or SVU. And that's the one. Oh gosh, I mean, what about, I'm watching the camera, I swear, I'm like trying, because

now I have the books, and now I'm going to get all the other books, so I'm about to read all the books. Yeah. Oh, you're getting into literature, too. This is, this is huge.

I don't know if I'm some literature, but it's definitely a book, and it's definitely on the right. I don't read, and now you're reading, I'm just saying. Yeah, I'm reading. These are great.

And my first Russian lesson is, um, in two days.

Ooh, uh, yeah, yeah, that'll be fun.

“I think it'll be really fun, and I think on my parents are going to be so fucking excited”

when I come with some new vocabulary and smoothness. I think they'll be really calm. Yeah. That'll be pumped. And that while I have you guys here, obviously, please come see me on the road.

I'm in Kansas City if you're listening to this this week. Tomorrow I'm in Aspen. I'm in Chicago. I'm adding Salt Lake. And they guess.

And we have Vermont. I just took a march weekend. I mean, I'm fucking out there. Don't, don't make me beg. Don't make me beg.

Yeah. Go to, um, you can also go. Go out there.

You can also go out there.

What? I said, I'll beg. It doesn't matter. It's like, yeah. You can go to, you can go to LisaTrigger.com, or GlitterCheese.com, redirects to there.

So you can just go straight there. I was talking to someone about, like, something I've really, I'm like trying to manifest something. I'm like talking about it and talking about it. And they were like, well, I just don't want you to like be disappointed.

I go, honey, I'm disappointed all the time, but it doesn't matter. I'm like, who's talking about? You think you can just like do this a point. Yeah. They're like, but you have great things happen.

I go, yeah. And those work out, but if they did it, I would just be disappointed. But I wanted those things too. And I got them.

So it's like, the what is always has to be there.

It's weird. Yeah, I just, I think I'm like used to being disappointed by stuff. It just doesn't bother me. She seemed more sad about it. I'm like, I don't see it as being sad.

Am I wrong? Am I crazy? Is everyone going to be sad for me now? No.

“No, I think it's like you have to get used to being disappointed.”

And rather be disappointed than not have like big dreams. Just be honest. I'm trying to get my kids okay with disappointment, a little freaks. How is that, how is that less than going? That looks like how do you teach a disappointment?

I mean, it was like 48 degrees this morning in LA. And I had two bag rolls you to wear a jacket that she approved of buying a year ago. And then today accused me of buying it because she knows I hate it. She was you bought this because you know I don't like it. I was like, I can't even.

And then I started arguing with her like a rational person, like she's a rational adult. And I have to stop. Now, I mean, that's a non-parent to a parent. I would say be cold. Go be cold.

Be cold today then. Oh my God. Be cold. And last week was like fucking crazy because I was at school every day so much valentines shit.

I was decorating the auditorium for, I mean, the this main room they have for a dance. I was doing candy grams. I mean, it was, I've streamlined the candy gram process that my children's school. So, you know, things are going better than last year. But fuck, these kids are giving each other like so huge gifts.

Like they came home with like a hall from Valentine's. Like it was like more stuff than Halloween, I feel like really. So it's not just little cute cards with a card. No, like for a lot of people have attached exactly. We did card, Rosie got these cards with jokes on them, Oscar got these unicorn cards,

lollipop attached. And I thought that's good. Like it's a big lollipop. It's my favorite charms, cherry flavor. I really liked it.

Heart-shaped. And then they come home. And I swear to God, they were a full kit of hair ties, which obviously Rosie's not going to use those went right to Oscar. There was like toys, Oscar got a box of chocolates, like a heart, like, are you in a romantic

relationship with someone? Like it was like, it's just a lot of stuff, toys, pencils, stamps, like all kinds of stuff. Lots of stuff. They're just stuff. Wow.

I don't know. Because sometimes it's like the parents that aren't participating in anything else,

“but then I'm like, are you dropping $20 a kid on Valentine's?”

But even if it's multiple dollars a kid, that's like a lot. Ads up. Rosie's got a lot of kids in her class. Yeah, it's a lot. But yeah, but I love Valentine's Day and I love those little cards.

Oh my God, someone actually, oh God, people bring me such good gifts. I have to show it to you actually, just I'll be right back, entertain the masses. Okay. Okay, I'm back.

Yeah, brand number.

“So it's like stickers postcards full art, but like, look at this.”

Oh, yeah. This is brand in bird, right? Yes. Yes. Oh, that's a book.

Yeah, I haven't seen this, I haven't seen this big one. I'm like, oh no, that one is cute. But I don't have some add-ons. Yeah, like tell the people what that is. Okay, so it's like a little boy handing a little girl a heart Valentine and has a picture

of munches face that it says, "Hey, cutie." Like, it's so cool to have these as a coloring book. But then just kind of, it should be something for munch.

It should be like, I'd be the second gunman on the grassy knoll for you or something.

You know how much is like a conspiracy theorist should be like, I like, hey, cutie, I would get that tattoo on my fucking body. What bells are on my ass? Like, fucking cool stickers, yeah, we're holding on. Let me on.

Do we love brand in bird?

“Yes, we've been following him for, we've been, we've been, we've been posting his Valentine's”

every single year. So they get with an orca, like, it's so cool. Yeah. I'm a whole lot. Whatever.

I know you guys are listening. We don't, we're not on fucking YouTube, so I'm sorry. I'm like talking about this book, but it was just, it's just very thoughtful and I was so happy to get it. But this is a violent scene.

This is the guy who, every year does the SVU Valentine's, he's got a book by him. His Instagram, but I also have some of the Valentine's on my fridge, like, I'm a fan of the Valentine's. I didn't know his name. And you guys have given us the Valentine's.

Actually, we've been on tour. Be bird, BE, B-E-E-B-U-R-D is his Instagram. So give them a follow. We love him. We love his art.

He makes fun old school type Valentine's with the, the cast, the SVU on it.

“Um, yeah, I was just performing, but it's like a great weekend to perform, you know?”

Yeah, a lot of dates, a lot of love in the year and dates, or it's like groups of fun girls. So it's like overall pretty good.

But the first show Saturday, you could tell people wanted a fuck and wanted to get out

of there. Like, I was like, I sense the horniness in the room, and I had to end the show. Ooh. But one of my favorite things happened, so there was like someone that does medical studies. And he was trying to create a way for like people with severed spines to be able to come

and like have sex. And then I was like, well, did the study work? And he said no. And then everyone booed him. And I just like, this is the first time I had a medical study, be booed at the comedy show.

It's like life just together, getting better and better. Like the roar of booze would be set it to work, just really like, it tickled me. It really tickled me. Oh, my gosh, amazing. In 2023, a story gripped the UK of looking horror and disbelief.

The nurse who should have been in charge of caring for tiny babies is now the most prolific child killer in modern British history. Everyone thought they knew how it ended. A verdict, a villain, a nurse named Lucy Leppi. Lucy Leppi has been found guilty.

But what if we didn't get the full story? The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapses. I'm Amanda Knox, and in the new podcast doubt, the case of Lucy Leppi, we follow the evidence and hear from the people that lived it. To ask what really happened when the world decided who Lucy Leppi was.

No voicing of any skepticism are doubt. It'll call so much harm at every single level of the British establishment of this is wrong. Listen to doubt, the case of Lucy Leppi, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

China's Ministry of State Security is one of the most mysterious and powerful spy agencies

in the world. But in 2017, the FBI got inside. This is Special Agent Riggle, Special Agent Bradley Hall. This MSS officer has no idea the U.S. government is on to him. But the FBI has his chats, texts, emails, even his personal diary.

Here how they got it on the 6th bureau podcast. I now have several terabytes of an MSS officer, no doubt, no question of his life. And that's the Unicorn. No one had ever seen anything like that. It was unbelievable.

This is a story of the inner workings of the MSS, and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its fault of secrets. Listen to the 6th bureau on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Clayton Neckard, and in 2022, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor.

Unfortunately, it didn't go according to plan. He became the first bachelor to ever have his final rose rejected, the internet turned

If I could press a button and rewind it all I would.

“But what happened to Clayton after the show made even bigger headlines?”

It began as a one night stand, and ended in a courtroom, with Clayton at the center of a very strange paternity scandal. The media is here, this case has gone viral. The dating contract agreed to date me, but I'm also suing you. This is unlike anything I've ever seen before.

I'm Stephanie Young, this is Love Trap. This season, an epic battle of he said she said, and the search for accountability in a sea of lies. I don't know the answer, get break it by the **** Brassler. Listen to Love Trap on the I Heart Radio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

podcasts. Wait, I do have to ask not to keep going back to this, but like, do you feel like the tailor to the heated, like, do you feel more nervous about this? I would say yes if you're asking only because Taylor has a huge catalog of music. I understand.

The tour coming up, this is for all intents and purposes, six hours of television. So I'm just a little bit nervous, but then I know there are the books, and there's the lore, and there's the people, and that's very big, and your feet and everything right now. But I mean, if you're just asking me my concern level, I'm not calling to get you 51/50,

but like, I will be like, you're not alone, but I'm just like, isn't this what I normally do? But yeah, kind of, it just feels like it's over such a, a smaller single size, and I still have, like, from when we're recording this, it's still like 11 days until the SNL. And I'm like, I just don't know how I don't see any end in sight.

Oh, wait, God, what's happening? Which one's hosting a SNL? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

“And then all of the, I mean, have you been watching any Olympics?”

I have caught Olympics. I have caught Olympics. I was, it was like a really dark. No, no, no, I got to Sacramento and watch the Olympics at the Hilton in Sacramento, very bleak in the lobby, having Manhattan's and chicken tenders.

And I fought, I fought a couple of men. You fought? Yeah. I did. I never believe.

Of course. Of course. Yeah.

You're always ready to fight with your fists, but I know that you don't do that.

I'm, I was talking about Serena Bonoly, and then the bartender made a comment about, like, at least no one's taking a knee, and I had to go, why would have liked that? Oh, okay. Ah, but then also the guy went, yeah, I didn't know if that guy actually could jump, or it was AI.

I go, are you fucking stupid? I go, AI is trashed. That is a fetus Islam, but I posted about them. They gave me the vibe of the Irish vampires and sinners, like I didn't like their energy.

I don't understand the reference, but I mean, you didn't see the sinners. Not yet.

“Remember, I was too scared, but then everybody says they think I can see it.”

It's not. I'm going to watch it. You're watching a lot of movies. I'm going to try to watch this week. I'm going to try to watch that a mental value and sinners, because I want to try to, I do

try to vote in the saga words, you know, I do try to vote. I do get a vote, so I figure why not. So I'm going to try to vote, but I've been, I've got to watch these movies. I can't vote, you know, I can't vote without just for favoritism. Are you, and I know no information following the Canadian curling scandal.

Yes, not fully. What's happening? Can you summarize it for me? Because my siblings are texting about it. And I'm like, I'm busy.

So I don't know.

So basically, there's a guy and he's caught on camera cheating.

He used to finger to push the thing. But then I found out that like, you see footage and his teammates are like, fuck you. And he's like, I didn't do it. Go fuck yourselves. And it's like, you did do it.

So, and I guess he's very hated and they all hate him already. That's a camera on you every second. Yeah. And it's like, he brought shame upon Canada in a really beautiful time for Canada. So, it's also, but also, women's hockey, America beat Canada, which I guess doesn't happen

in like decades or something like that. Yes. I, the ice skating. I love the Japanese couple. Cheers.

They went from fifth to first, like a program of a lifetime, joy, like, loved it, poor quad god falling, getting eighth place, shocking, shocking, of course. I love the punk, I love the punk rock girls. I love my girlies. I love piercings and wild places, funny hair.

I like the girls. I would say I didn't pay attention as much to the French dance, like the French and the you at, there's controversy there, but I didn't really pay attention. Oh, that ice dancing? Yeah.

And then the Norway girl, she got for a speed skating, the bodies. The bodies in speed skating are like the standout hits for me in terms of Olympics.

You know what the best part has been?

“Colin, just talking about going into a Bob sled was the best thing of the Olympics for me.”

I watched it three times. He, truly, I think thought he was going to die, and it was very funny to watch. He inspired a lot of control. So funny. They put Colin Joe's just nightmares because I think he's so funny and distress.

Because he's like, I've already hit the fucking jackpot. Like somehow I'm married to Scarlett Johansson, even though I'm like a comedian. And then it's like, don't like, I can't have my life be like my death be like a huge joke. Like I die in a Bob sledding accident trying to do a bit for the Olympics. I mean, they had a driver, but it goes to like 110 miles.

The, the, these races are crazy, but I found out like a lot of countries if you're just really good at sports, but not all the way like you playing college or like you're not for the majors, but you're an athletic person. Do we already talk about this? No.

No. They recruit for these weird sports. There's like a whole thing where they bring all these athletic weirdos. Yeah.

Or you know, and then they test you and they see what you could be good at.

And then you start training in these weird sports. And that's how life is going. You don't see kids doing Bob sledding like at age age. No, but I bet it's like a kid who is great at hockey, maybe one state like when to college got drafted, but didn't play, they'll bring him and be like, maybe you can get

one of these. I want to know what they're doing in there. I don't, how are they moving it? I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. It's crazy. The buffs. It's all psychotic. I'm trying to think what else besides what I just rattled off that I am focusing.

Obviously, I'm crying every time I see a parent celebrating, of course. Yeah. That was my reference when I made Conan O'Brien last one time was I was leaving the page program to go work at the Torena Olympics, and he I was the Conan page. So I left him a note in his office, being in his dressing room, being like, thank you

so much for the opportunity. I've learned so much, Bob, I was really trying to get a job there. And he was like, oh, hey, I got your note. Where are you off to? And I go, I'm going to the Olympics.

He goes, what's your event? And I go skeleton. And he like laughed so hard. I didn't even really know what skeleton was I just learned about it. I love that.

Wait. Also the ulcer game, basketball. And I've mostly been just watching behind the scenes footage of the guys and like signing each other's jerseys and bringing their kids together. And just the guys having fun.

“But I think it's because of heated rivalry and their ulcer games is why I'm like interested”

in this ulcer game. I'll be honest. But it's been cute. And there's like a tall guy named Wett. Like, I don't know.

There was like a spirit in there. Yeah, I saw I ran into CJ over the weekend and he was in town for that. Okay. And I was like, how's it going? I'm old.

I know, but it was cute. Wemby. Like this tall, tall guy. Tall guy. I think that's the thing about that ulcer game, but I did go see a cute movie called

Goat. Oh, you said that. Okay. What was it with the kids? And I really liked it.

I thought it was really good. If you have kids, go see this Goat movie. I literally saw preview for it. Oh, did you bring it up because Steph Curry, isn't it? Huh?

“But you didn't bring it up because Steph Curry isn't it?”

Did you? No. Why would I do that? Well, because we're talking about the ulcer game and he's in the NBA. Oh, no.

I just did it because it's kind of about, it's like about basketball. Oh, it is. Okay. Yeah. Well, it's called Roar Ball, but it's basketball.

You know, like, in the movie, the sport is called Roar Ball, but it's basketball. And like, it's a lot of basketball, like, it's very basketball. There's a lot of really funny jokes in it. Gabrielle Union's voice, Steph Curry is a voice. I was like, racking my brain being like, are you a big Steph Curry fan?

Was I supposed to bring it up because of you? Like, um, oh, I know, Bahamas being there, like, God bless. Oh, yeah. I'm wanting to be that little bit of them, making an appearance. I don't know if this was your old, but someone made sure to get a photo of their mom

with Queen Latifa. And then it was like, oh, there was also, I guess there's these players. And you just see one of them be like, Grandma, it's enough pictures. Stop it. Like, cute.

Like, I like that. So, like, another player's kids being like, we want to be that guy. I just, it's heartwarming to me. I love it. Yeah.

That movie looks good. Is it, like, space jam?

No, I mean, I've never seen space.

You've never seen space. I know. I got to watch it with the kids, like, kids are going to love it. I know, I know. I know, especially now that we just watch Go, they really liked it.

I swear to God at the end, there's like a big moment. And Oscar was clapping. And like, he normally is like, you know, not the one that's super into sports stuff. And, uh, dude, I'm going to see Goat before I see like, Papillian. Like, I'm going to love.

Goat was fun. And it's like a cute movie about, like, following your dreams, obviously.

I thought it was really funny.

And the animation style is cool.

“It's like not the same that you always see.”

It's a little bit different. It's like a little bit different. It's Sony. So it's the people that do, like, all the transalvanias and Mitchell's versus the machines, which I also love.

I like, like, what they have going on over there. It's Sony Animation, some, a lot of times. I don't know if I like everything. I also, when you do watch space jam with the kids, I have a theory that all the little aliens are gay.

Let me know what you feel. Okay. I'm trying to show my kids my new work in this area. I tried to show my friends, my friends, my kids misses doubt fire over the weekend, because my friend told me that her kids loved it.

Oh, boy. You forgot that, like, movies from that time period. Let you take so much time. Like, there's a full divorce at the beginning of that movie. I thought they just started the movie divorced, kind of.

No, there's like a party. There's like a dark house in it. Like, you get, it's a while before Mrs. Doubt fire appears. It's a while. Okay.

And then my kids were like, when is she gone? When is he gonna dress up? And I was like, it's coming. It's coming. And now if Jared and I say anything, they're like,

are you guys gonna get a divorce? Because now divorce has like been so spelled out for them. And Mrs. Doubt fire. We're like, no, we're not getting a divorce. Actually, Jared was out.

“And the kids were like, oh, did Daddy do something?”

Are you gonna get a divorce? I was like, why? Because you just watched Mrs. Doubt fire? No, he's not. Did they finish it?

No, they got pretty far. We got to the run by through the communication. I'm saying the bar cage is faster. They get down to South Beach quick. The bird cages is so good.

It might be a little old. But like a movie that says your money's on the dresser chocolate, I don't know if we can do that quite yet with my six and four year old. But they got to, there was a one run,

that was a run by fruiting or whatever. And Rosie keeps saying that. But we didn't, and they got to the point where he's peeing standing up and his son catches up. And Rosie was like, oh, so they'll continue.

Yeah, you left off on the peeing, so they'll be back. And Rosie was, Rosie would have kept going. Oscar is at a very anti-live action phase, as I've mentioned. But let's get started. Let's get started.

Let's get started. We've got a great episode for you guys today. Another reminder that our Patreon is bump in this week. We've got an episode coming to you.

“That's a recap of the cult of the housewife,”

a three-part documentary on HBO about Mary Cosby from the Real Housewives of Salt Lake City. It's super interesting. Whatever you think you know, you think you know what you have no idea, MTV Diary.

But yeah, go to patreon.com/thatsmastup and join us over on the Patreon if you have time. And the intro-- Oh wait, the guy who made papillian, his gay awakening was groundskeeper Willie from the Simpsons.

How fun is that? That's crazy. I'm sorry, his groundskeeper Willie, a gay man. No, he's just hot. He's like a muscular guy.

Oh, OK, I don't think I knew that. Yeah. OK, papillian, all right, I don't know. I got to find this. [LAUGHTER]

Sorry. Oh, I'm a bird egg. We're a star. Let's start. Let's start.

Let's start. [MUSIC PLAYING] OK, we're doing pursuit, which I'm excited about.

A one-word title is always a joy in our SVU universe.

Yeah, we'll start. OK, so there's a knock at the door. It's aggressive and fast. And then there's a short hair woman approaches the door. And then a pedophile comes in.

This woman is not a child. And I don't know how this pedophile is tricked. If he's a true pedophile, this is clearly a woman undercover. Like, there's no child qualities to her. Glasses, he's nervous, he's looking around.

He looks like-- who's the guy, the bagley junior, and bagley junior. That's what he's looking like. Oh, OK. You saw it, you see it?

I see it. Yeah, it's like the light. It's like kind of a skin matching your hair color. Yeah, there's a lot of that in this episode. Yeah.

Yeah. There's a few blonde beard. There's a few. A few. Yeah, there's a few.

Yeah. OK, yeah. I'm glad you noticed.

The problem is right from the beginning.

So there's a paper bag. And so we obviously know what's going to be in there. So there's a woman. Yeah, since she's undercover, she's just not a child. OK, he's got--

Yeah, she's-- I mean, the wig is pretty bad. I feel like it's a really crazy wig that this person's wearing. So he has beer, obviously. He wants to set in the couch. He wants to watch TV.

He calls her baby doll. He's moving fast. So then Deborah Messing appears behind her. And then Deborah Messing appears as herself. And she's behind him with a camera crew.

He's being recorded and his face drops. He knows what's up. There's condoms, there's loop. And so this woman's name is Alicia Harding, and she's the host of Neighborhood Predator.

pedo, trifecta.

And Sonya Paxton's involved in this.

And I did spell Sonya Paxton. I would say three different times. Three different ways throughout this.

“I've spelled it every single way that I could.”

So we have her. We have Benson. I see they're watching all of this go down. They have his emails. And he's sending porn to the kids.

So it's like, there's no way around it. And then the loop and condoms fall out of the bag. He's screaming. It's a set up, you're a pedo, you're caught. Like I have some dignity at least.

That's admit it, admit you've been caught. So it's done cameras everywhere. He tries running LOL. Debra, Tazism. So he falls to the ground.

It's just like I respect that all actors are like very trained in multiple disciplines and everything. But she's so grace, Adler, to me, forever, that in this episode, she's just trying so, she's so deadly serious in this episode.

She will not, she's just like, through gritted teeth. Like, once that Emmy nomination so badly, you know what I mean? Like for the guest role.

Like, yeah, I never watched it.

The one thing I've watched of hers was the wedding date. Is that a movie that's part of your life or not? - No, yeah, like she has to hire Patrick Dempsey to be a date for a wedding. 'Cause she's so gross that no one will go to a wedding

with her, what's the premise? Why? - I think they fall in love, right?

“- Yeah, they fall in love, but I think maybe there's an X”

or like she was dumb, so she's a loser, something like that. - Okay, okay, yeah, I mean, I loved Will and Grace so much. Like, I was a huge Will and Grace fan. So, but it's just seeing her with this like, her mouth is like small, she's like clinging her teeth.

It's like a lot. - Yeah, it's like kind of life. If you can't take one day off trying to solve your sister's murder, like-- (laughs) - It's been 25 years babe, take a break.

- Yeah, so she tastes as a mother fucker,

uniform cops come to arrest him. Down in the lobbies, Sonia and Deborah are walking and then Benson and I see her walking as well, and they all meet in the middle of the frame. And then, like, bitch, give me the taser, he's pissed.

(laughs) Deb is like, wow, he doesn't like me and Benson goes, yeah, he doesn't like civilians trying to do his job and she goes, I think his name on 18 arrests should suit his soul, thank you very much.

And whatever, so then a person comes in with a package. I know him, this is Hank Chen. We did a pilot together, so thrilled to see his face. So, love Hank, love that he's here. Doing my dream role, the audition I bombed,

handing something over to defensive Benson. So, you know, bittersweet to see his face, he's a PA in this. She takes the package, Deborah Messing does, not Olivia, whatever. So, Deborah takes the package, she says thanks.

Suddenly, her blood stained hands, there's blood in the box, what's in the box? It's her lucky scarf. The last time she saw it was in her bed that morning.

“So, do you have a piece of clothing that is your lucky thing?”

Like, I would be more like, that's my lucky sweater. That's my lucky, those are my lucky socks or whatever. Not to get into the heated rivalry of it all, don't start. Wait, why? What socks?

'Cause he wears a sock. The banana sock. Oh, we have it, I don't care about that storyline. That's like my cost of her shopping again. Oh, my God, I can't believe I'm trying to throw

in a reference. I'm not hitting. Okay, it's hitting, it's hitting, it's hitting, it's hitting. Sorry, no, no secondarys, no B plot for Lisa, got it. Noted.

I do watch it once in a while, I do. That's so funny, no, yeah, the socks, I don't know, I don't know why, I just can't get on board. I see them now, I see banana socks everywhere and I'm like, oh, beaded rivalry 'cause they are in there.

There are a lot of banana socks in like gift shops. Like, I don't know why, go on. Yeah, yeah, so, Benson, so whatever. There's a bloody lucky scarf. She, it's from her bed and then Benson says,

you have a stalker. And so then the credits, the credits start. So she's in woodroom blind, she's annoyed, she's like, I'm a celebrity, I got a lot of emails, you're being annoying.

And they're like, what are you talking about? We have to take these seriously, you have a bloody scarf. Like, I hate people that will not let the people help them. And so she's gonna keep doing her job, she says, she's gonna double her security, she's not stopping.

And Sonya's like, well, I just wish you told me that people were emailing you, saying they're watching you and coming after you. And she goes, I can take care of myself. And then Benson looks perfect, like, I truly,

yeah, like a swoop long bang, like she kind of pulled it out of her face and it flopped accidentally, but perfectly. And then there's like a French twist, banana clip, that does reveal itself to be a small bun later, but that's like the French shape of it.

And it's a gray sweater turtleneck. And I'm just obsessed. And so Deb is like, it could be like a hundred plus

I don't have a personal life, so don't worry. If I'm not working, I only follow leads on Vanessa's abduction. So then Sonya fills her in.

So basically, Deb from Essing's 13-year-old sister

Vanessa went missing 25 years ago. It was Sonya's case. She's also been working on it ever since. And all they found were bloody clothes and knife cuts in her shirt.

And that is what it is, and that's the backstory, and that's why she has pedophiles. So then Benson asks how this person knew the scarf was special, and she goes, I talk about it all the time. It was my sister's, and so she's like,

“on air talking about her lucky scarf, like what the fuck?”

I don't get that. But I guess the people need to know, like, what are you doing? So then Benson asks levers, and then that, obviously, is he to rivalry coded. And so then, okay, so levers Benson asks,

as she sits down as like a basketball coach, she puts her elbows on her thighs, like she has a plan to talk, a defensive zone, and so she has sex with a journalist. Okay, this is like the funniest sense of all time. I put this on a shirt.

Yeah, I've sex with a journalist covering the Afghan drug trade. It's casual. He's overseas. Like does he cover anything else? There is a girl trade in Afghanistan,

like I had no idea what that was. I didn't know that was a big thing. Yeah, Blacks are here when an opium and stuff like that, I think. I don't have Afghanistan.

I never even thought about that.

That's not where, but also, it's like how many reports do we need, like, is he under, I don't? He's in bed. He's in town on big, on vacation. So crazy.

“A journalist covering the Afghan drug trade, it's casual.”

Okay, so I just, I'm obsessed. So fired anyone, and she goes, we'll not in the last six months, but she's happy to give all the personnel files. She's like, but that's a waste of time.

And Benson goes, okay, this can't be a stranger. I know you think it's just like some loony tune out in the world, but they know your routine, they know about your lucky scarf, they know your house, like it's someone that knows you and Deb goes, great.

So is it someone I trust because that's basically nobody. Okay, okay, she has nothing in her life. So they keep asking her questions, she gives me an oil, but it's like you investigate pedophiles, like let these guys also investigate,

like you know there's answers. So this person got into your personal email. Girl, like who could get into your email? And again, I wrote, she looks extra hot in this episode, like I don't know what is going on.

So then Benson meets Craig in and fan outside the spy window and the blood, they tested it, it's human, and it's no more than two days old. Craig and goes, that's a splashy treat. What a threat, okay, that makes sense.

Craig and goes, that's a splashy threat. And Benson's like, what are you trying to say? And he says Alicia Harding doesn't report the news. She makes it, fap, fap, fap, fap, fap. So Benson goes, oh, you think she made it up.

And he's like emails were sent from a bogus IP

and it wouldn't be the first time a reporter played games

for attention and Benson's like, I just don't think she would fuck up her sister.

“Scarf like that, like it's the only thing she cares about.”

And then Hank Chen is sitting talking to a cop in the precinct. So he's got a lot to say. And the person who handed the PA, the package, is a fake cop. So like there was someone that blended in with the real cops, like who's this fake cop, who is this?

Sampler's training at Quantico. What is happening? If they said anyone to Quantico, I don't think you would be saying, like I don't even think he reads on his off time. Like I don't know.

He was shooting a movie or something maybe. Like it's weird that he would be gone. And then he comes back halfway through the episode. Yeah, I don't know. I was gonna just look up like what episode was right before it.

But whatever. So he's gonna analyze the emails. They sent all the emails to him. And he's gonna use his Quantico stuff to like do that. Yeah, no, the episode before this is called spectacle.

It's the one where oh, my friends actually in this episode. It's the one where there's a sexual assault on video tape. And it's like going on a campus, a college campus feed, and all the kids are watching it. It's like more kitty genavise.

They stuff like, why didn't anybody call anybody? They all just watched this livestream attack happen. Well, at the episode after this, what after pursuit is actually bully our first episode, we would ever did.

I know. Oh, but I could be wrong, but maybe the reason that he goes to Quantico is from this whole live streaming aspect, where he's like, there's gotta be a way to shut it down. We got to know more about how these things work, whatever.

That could be like the launchpad for why he's at Quantico. But I could be wrong. I'm sure the listeners will let me know. In 2023, a story gripped the UK of looking horror and disbelief. The nurse who should have been in charge of caring

for tiny babies is now the most prolific child killer in modern British history. Everyone thought they knew how it ended. A verdict, a villain, a nurse named Lucy Leppi. Lucy Leppi has been found guilty.

At the moment, you look at the whole picture of the case collapses.

“I'm Amanda Knox, and in the new podcast doubt,”

the case of Lucy Leppi, we follow the evidence and hear from the people that lived it. To ask what really happened when the world decided who Lucy Leppi was? No, voicing of any skepticism are doubt.

It'll cause so much harm at every single level of the British establishment of this is wrong. Listen to doubt, the case of Lucy Leppi, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

China's Ministry of State Security

is one of the most mysterious and powerful

spy agencies in the world. But in 2017, the FBI got inside. This is Special Agent Riegel, Special Agent Bradley Hall. This MSS officer has no idea the U.S. government is on to him. But the FBI has his chats, texts, emails,

even his personal diary. Here how they got it on the sixth bureau podcast. I now have several terabytes of an MSS officer no doubt, no question of his life. And that's the unicorn.

No one had ever seen anything like that. It was unbelievable. This is a story of the inner workings of the MSS, and how one man's ambition and mistakes open its fault of secrets. Listen to the sixth bureau in the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts,

wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Clayton Nackard, and in 2022, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor. Unfortunately, it didn't go according to plan.

He became the first bachelor to ever have his final rose rejected.

The internet turned on him. If I could press a button and rewind it all, I would. But what happened to Clayton after the show? Made even bigger headlines. It began as a one night stand,

and ended in a courtroom, with Clayton at the center of a very strange paternity scandal. The media is here. This case has gone viral. The dating contract.

A great a date me, but I'm also suing you. We're in search for it. This is unlike anything I've ever seen before. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped.

This season, an epic battle of he said she said, and the search for accountability in a sea of lies. I don't know if he needs to get pregnant by the (beep) Brassler. Listen to Love Trapped on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. So they have to go to her apartment.

Finally, why didn't we do this from the beginning?

So we go to the apartment, everyone's searching, and Finn goes check between the sheets. Just in case he left us a nasty little gift. Like, okay, okay, and what the fuck? All right, so they found panties in the sink.

All chlorine dubs. We probably like jerked off into those. Four century no. And there's a shrine to her sister. It's very intense.

And then there's a black binder right on the desk. And it's all the evidence, files, papers, lab reports, crime scene photos, everything, and Benson's like, how the fuck did she get evidence to an open murderer?

I have one guess, and it's Sonya Boo's Hound Paxton.

“That's who I think, so then she's in recovery.”

She is in recovery. I am the number one Sonya Paxton apologists. Finn has the same ideas. Me as probably Boo's Hound, and then Benson's like, maybe he left a print on one of these pages.

But also, it's like, is it a pedophile? What's happening? It doesn't seem like it's the same person. And Finn and Benson are like, well, maybe the feds have some idea on who this could be.

So now we have an FBI face time with Stabler. He's on a big screen. And this is, he goes, it's the worst kind of stalker. He's smart, he's resourceful, he's experience. This is a hard core predator.

And they don't get off on stalking. Like, he's going to show himself soon or talk to someone else if he can't get Alicia. And then Stabler and Finn get competitive over Olivia. And Finn goes, I'm better than you.

I actually watch her back, not her backside. And then hangs up on Stabler. Hey, that is wild to me that there's such a like outward. He's married. He has four kids at this point.

Five kids at this point.

“Why are you just outwardly being like you want to fuck her?”

Like, yeah, that's me. You precinct saying stare at your co-workers ass. In front of her, she's there, right? When he says it, it's weird. It's weird.

You maybe would say that to him at the bar after work. When she's not there, right? Yeah, thank you. Yeah, because my, yeah, okay. So I definitely, I definitely was like, that's weird.

So then they look at, you know, the purps, the looky-lues, they're all around. So they're looking at all the crime and street photos. And they see one face over and over and over. And it's a man named Scott Lasky.

He's an IT engineer, ding ding ding emails. Benson stands up. And Finn already at Unies pick him up. And he's in cement room bars.

So it's blonde hair, blonde face, blond beard, angry little face. And he's like, I'm invoking. And they're like, you're not under arrest babe.

And then basically he's mad.

He knows the truth, doesn't fucking matter. The prosecutors drop the pedigle case because he's not, gonna rape a minor. He is not a pedophile. This is a mistake.

It's ruined his life. And she goes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

“And then they're like, can you want a fuckily sharding?”

And he's, and you know, technology. And he calls her peaches, which is crazy to me. So he calls Benson peaches. I mean, this episode, the quotes of this episode. The peaches took me out.

I was like, peaches, what? That was, uh, wild. Whatever, he's a creep, he's pissed, he was set up, he knows computers. He calls her peaches and goes, come back on my lawyers here.

So now Craig and needs to know why the charges are dropped. And then Finn pops up going, and I got an answer. He has a friend at a network, so I don't know how he met his network television friend, but they pulled the raw footage for him. So this is crazy.

So this blonde man is at the door, and it's, he goes, it's late. Where are your parents? I can't believe you're alone here. And the girl's begging. She's like, come fuck me, come party.

I'm like a child slut, right? Like, she is being so heavy and bad. And he's like, she's like, do to me what you said on the internet. And the blonde guy goes, what? Someone's coming over here.

You have to call the police. She goes, what for, he goes, I raise your emails. You cannot tell man you'll get naked and that they could touch you. You're going to be in trouble. Please call the police.

And then we see the episode that they aired, the version they aired. And it's caught up.

And basically he's excited and she goes, you're alone.

Get naked. My god, you're asking for it. So it's very Homer Badman episode. And so they caught it up. And he was just truly trying to help her.

And Sonya goes, whatever, he deserved it. Fuck him. Fuck him, he should have gone to the cops and Finn goes with the fuck bitch. Like, your friend, doctor, the footage. And Sonya's being such a dumb bitch.

And all it wasn't hell, you're wasting your time. Listen that. I literally had to look and see if this was. And I know how this episode turns out. But for a second, because of all this, I was like,

is she still drinking? Like, there's a power her eyes are super red. And she's being such a dick. I'm like, why are you being such a dick? Are you drinking again?

“And then I realized that I thought, is this not as she drink again?”

Is this the episode where she's a drunk still? I didn't realize it was, and then I'm like, of course not, because it's, you know, we know what happens. But yeah, yeah, yeah. But she's just being annoying.

And then Craig is like, well, we need to find who is the right person. And it could be now all these people she framed. And the suspect pool just got deeper, Benson says. And then dramatic music plays. So he got Hashi Horowitz.

He's clocking in. There's a back and forth. And the blonde will not like leave until he's reassured that the cops are gonna leave him the fuck alone. And then his wife left him.

He can't even hang out with his 12-year-old daughter. He can't see her like, it sucks. And they're like, we saw both versions and Benson's like, okay, but why didn't you call the cops? And Hashi's like, he did.

He tried. He looked into it. He went to the precinct. He helped people. He goes, I have a kid. I was worried about the internet.

I saw all this stuff happening. So I hacked it and I found it. And then I took all of this stuff and I took it to the cops. Like, he did everything he could. And so he hacked the server and then Hashi's like shut the fuck up.

But basically he's like, looking, he's seeing these conversations happen.

He doesn't like it. And then Sonia goes, okay, well, he should have followed the law then. He shouldn't be hacking. And it's like, for the love of God, shut the fuck up. And he goes, I just didn't want that girl getting raped. And then he walked into the precinct, gave the message board logs to the desksargent.

And the desksargent was just like, okay, whatever, I don't care.

“So then finally, he went to the house and knocked and that's what happened.”

So the cops flopped and then Fins and I were talking to the 72 precinct to find out if this, you know, corroborate the story. And Sonia's like, you're not blaming Alicia for this, are you? And it's like, yeah, you're dumb bitch. We certainly are. Benson goes, you're too close to the case, you're too close. It's been decades.

You need to zoom out lady. And she goes, I don't care if you think I gave her information. And it's wrong. I don't care. I'll give her anything. I want, we, uh, this is all I care about too. So then Paxton goes, I mean, this is like her new addiction instead of alcohol, like, get a fucking life. So then Paxton goes low. This is crazy. This episode is actually crazy. And I don't want that enough. I really don't ever watch this episode ever.

So Paxton goes low and goes, tell me how long did you search for the man who raped your mother? Crayon and Benson are stunned silence. Like neither of them say anything. And in Finn breaks the tension, the desksargent corroborates the blonde beard story. And so they're going to void the rest. They, they're going to wake up a lesions. See what's up. And Sonia's mouth open shocked that

her assistance like, hey, I got you your new apartment keys, who wants copies and Benson goes,

“nobody, you dumb bitch. The apartment is off limits. Like, give nobody of these keys.”

And so Rachel's like, oh, my bad. And then leave is Benson in a lesion chatting. So then Benson asks who else has keys to your play. She says staff, hair, makeup, wardrobe, assistant. Benson's like, I need names. She goes, no, fuck you. And she's like, I need names of everyone that could have the keys. Who works for you? Who knows you? All the men that you railroaded into prison. And she goes,

that was one mistake, one Scott. There's no others. And it's like, Benson's like, there could be others. And she also was like, she was not aware of the edit. And network wanted a record number of arrests. She didn't know they did it behind her back. And then she fired the producer six months ago,

who did it, who like put it together without her knowledge. Like, she would have never done that.

And so Benson wants to talk to him. So they go see Donnie Spencer. And she goes, yeah, he's not a big fan of me since I fired him. And Benson goes, yeah, you seem to have that effect on everybody. So like, no one likes debroom as saying pedophiles and cops and lawyers and her family. Like, no one likes her. No one likes her. So now Donnie Spencer, he looks unemployed for sure. It's so slacker. And he says that she told him to doctor the footage. And he did her a favor. And then got canned.

He denies stalking. He calls her a whore. She says, uh, he goes, whatever. So I sent a few emails, like, who gives a shit. And so they arrest him. So they bring him to the precinct and put him in the center. Like, sell. So then Benson's like, I got the stalker. I got the stalker. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and Craig and goes in inaugural. Um, Alicia just brought in another email and attached to it as a body dump of a young girl. Benson stunned so that, but then also, so this guy's just sent the emails.

He didn't do the, you know, the rest of the stuff. So the photo is like, it's deadweeds, a broken swing and dead, a dead woman in the snow. And then stapler on a video call is back being like, hey, this dump actually looks like a dump in Maryland. And the, and the body is real. And then Alicia walks in and staplers like cough cough civilian. She'll even talk about it in front of her and Sonia goes, yeah, of course, duh, she's my everything. And so then, so he goes, the purpose of social.

She just deals with teachers that did all. Like, he takes one class at Quantum Quantum, and now he's not part of the sex, please. So then she, so then Deborah Messing goes, does knowing the dead girl's location get me a seat at the table. This is the last place my sister was seen alive. She interviewed a woman who saw Vanessa in this part. And Sonia goes, you never told me. And she screams, it's a cold case. Nobody else is working in this. And Sonia goes, bitch,

I've been chasing after this bastard for a long time. And she screams, where is he? So she thinks who killed her sister stalking her. They all go, no, it's not the same guy. FBI thinks the guy is 30's 40's, which means too young to kill Vanessa. So then Deborah Messing goes, spare me. The DC sniper

had to be white and alone, right? You've never got the Zodiac. Ted Bundy was 14 at his first kill.

Your analysis don't know dick. I mean, it's hit after hit. Like, I don't who wrote this episode. Like, I'm kind of obsessed. Oh, what is it called? Oh, you know who wrote it? Judy McCreeory. Wow, wait, is that who we're talking to? We're talking to her, yeah. I noticed the written

“by credit for her. Oh my god, you guys, this is how I don't know. But that's how excited I was.”

I can't but we're talking to the who wrote this. This is the best episode I've ever read. Like, I'm obsessed. Judy, Judy, Judy, Wow, wow. Your analysts don't know dick. Like, fun. Craig and goes, tell us for the parkage, because you either go with me or you're not going alone. I'm fucking going there. So they all go there. And then they like, every single person, every cop is a teller to stand, stand right here. Stand right here. You can't do this.

Give me your phone. Locking her away. Like, please do not fuck with our crime scenes. Finn finds the body and then Sonya's like, okay, I'm going to call the Stanton Island DA. And then Benson starts raking through the snow with a stick, which is like psychotic to me as well.

She finds another body. They're like, okay, we got to call Warner third body. They need

cadaver dogs for Isaac. Whole fucking team. Let's do this. So also does nobody go to this park, ever. Like, there's five white female bodies. It is snowing. It's the middle of winter,

“but we find out some of these have been here for years and months. Like, what are we talking about?”

Oh, yeah. No one's that is crazy. That is crazy. That is crazy. Some women saw Vanessa here, but no one saw five ways. Yeah. So whatever. Five white females mid teens to mid 20s, varying stage of decomp three months to two years, homicide, but undetermined me in three days ago, there's one three wounds six inch deep stabbed and chest stomach back Sonya says, whips her head around as she says it. And Warner goes, whoa, how do you know that?

She goes, those were Vanessa's stabbing. So copycat or same guy. Oh, I got to use copycat for a Sigourney Weaver movie grid game this week. Nice. If I'm exciting, if I'm

in baby mama. It's like the old like late. Oh, my God. So funny. Yeah. Yeah. So, but I'm glad I

“watched copycat. So anyway, so paralyzed. Okay. This is what I wrote. Fuck paralyzed chest down”

during attack. So whatever that means to you. Now she was raped repeatedly. Oh, they said that

when he stabbed her first, she was paralyzed in the attack. Right. For me, it no fluids. Then stabbed

along. No trace, but the blows were precise. You know what he was doing? And he has police and forensic knowledge. Benson goes to give support to Sonya like damn sorry girl. This is a lot. This feels like deja vu. And she just wants to solve it so bad. And Benson's like, don't worry. We're going to do it. And so, but it's like, they both have the same vibe towards justice in cases. So it's like Benson might be annoyed by Sonya, but at the end of the day, spiritually they're aligned.

So she cries about being sober. And it's like, girl, I get it. I don't want to be sober. That's sucks for you. They argue about Alicia again. Yeah. Like, once you find five dead bodies, you want to have a beer, right? Yeah. That's the thing. You got to figure out how to take the edge off when you have work in a traumatic field like this. But I don't know, you do that. I'm doing classic bad girl vibes. I'm like so nauseous because I've just been

chugging diica. I mean, chugging ice coffees, empty stomach, smoking weed. It's 2 30 PM. And I am nauseous. But I'm going to have, but I'm going to have K so fun. Dino at five. So I'm waiting. I'm waiting it out. I love that. That's so good. So there are you about Alicia again. It was like,

what was the last lead? So basically three months ago, she appealed to the public for the

whereabouts of a kid who found Vanessa's clothing. Because she wanted to do an interview for the 25th anniversary of the death with this little boy, whatever. But they're like the cops probably talked him right and Sonya goes, no, there's no names in the files. There were so many volunteers that helped to find her. There's just tons of people and Benson goes fuck. If there was like all these volunteers that are eager, there's probably an excited killer that's all there too as well.

The killer is there. So then, so Benson wants the volunteer sign in sheets and she's like, let's compare all the witness statements and see if there's a match. So that everyone's working really hard. Everyone's working hard. Work and had. You know, I've been thinking about the Matt Damon. Ben Affleck thing that you brought up to me. Oh yeah, or like a few times ago, whatever. Yeah, because I really can't decide. It's so funny that it's such an existence such a

such a, but the thing is, but it's also like, such a classic pairing. And of course,

people have been talking about this for decades. Yeah. Never crossed my mind to do another or with

“these boys. So that's why I'm also little shocks where I was like, why was I not part of this”

conversation? Yeah. Ever. Yeah, I feel like I've talked to a lot of people about this before. What's your prep? Are you a Damon or an Affleck, you know? I think, yeah, I'm just like, I'm looking at the dogma photos right now. Yeah, dogma. I loved when they were in those movies. I know. Hey, I bet they fucked people together. I want to know the lucky people who got to be in a threesome with them. Probably a few girls that is like, do you think when a fucked both of them?

I don't know. That like doesn't feel like it's Matt Damon's style. That feels like something that Affleck would do. I think Matt Damon would. It would fuck when it's Paul Trough with that Affleck. You're crazy to think Matt Damon's on some like higher plane of living. I don't know. I don't think he's a, I don't think it's a higher plane of living. It's like he's like a, he seems like just like a moral like all-shocks kind of guy. Like married a bartender that

he struck up a conversation with them. Like adopted her daughter. Like, I don't know. He doesn't seem like he's like, hey, should we rail your girlfriend together? Like, I don't know. I'm not getting that from Matt Damon, but I don't think it's like a moral higher plane or anything. I just, I'm not getting it. But of course, I think given the opportunity, most people would fuck when it's Paul Trough, but like, especially in the 90s, they were having the best time. They were all right in

high. They were famous. No cell phones. Just smoking cigarettes. Yeah. In doors. They were smoking cigarettes

“in the club. Oh. All right. I don't even remember where we are. What are we talking about?”

I have to find the volunteer signs. The volunteer sign-in sheets. That's where we are. We're at the sign-in sheets. Craig and goes, why? It was nobody doing this work until now. And it's like, maybe it's these new dead bodies we found. Like, what are you talking about? Why now? Because there was a bloody scarf. Like, but also why did Donnie Spencer confess and Benson goes, he just sent threatening emails. That said, I'm watching you and picks up her and close to range photos. So basically

to like use that as the cover to go to this, to the house and like look through the murder book.

“And Craig and goes, well, no, why not kill her then? And Benson goes, well, that would be too”

much attention. He can't afford to kill like a popular journalist by popular. I mean, well, no, not what like. And then Craig and it's like, come on. Wait. So they're seeing a guy. They're seeing Donnie Spencer was just sending her threatening shit just to fuck with her because he doesn't like, okay. But then the stalker breaks into her computer sees that and kind of uses that as like a cover for, okay, got it, got it, got it. And then Craig and goes, yeah, but attention, he led us to the

body dump. And Finn goes, yeah, but murder Trump's stalking. So, you know, and Benson goes, okay, all of you shut the fuck up. We focus on Alicia. We find the killer. And then somebody on the

show or out, like, it asks me someone that, like, is part of the show or has an outside or with access to it.

Like, we need to figure stuff out. So they go back to talk so racially assistant. And she's busy putting papers on a desk, like so seriously, zipping desk to desk. And then she goes, you have to sign in, photo ID, temporary pass. Someone brings them, like, to the room. And there's no back doors. They all have alarms. It's front door in front door out. Benson goes, give me the logs of six months. She goes, do you think the killer came here? They go, who said anything about a killer? And she

goes, I mean, Alicia, she taped a message to the, to the, to the killer yesterday. So now we're watching it. And, you know, she's talking about bodies, sister, stabbing. She talks directly to the camera.

“She goes, your dick doesn't work. So that's why you have to rape with a knife, because you're pathetic.”

Yeah, I was shouldn't get that visual. Sonya's on the video looking worried and she's like, oh, fuck. And then she's like, and then Deborah Messing's like, I want to put him down like the rabid dog he is. And she's just putting him out in bed. She's like, you're a fucking loser. You're dick sucks. And, um, go fuck yourself. You have, yeah. So then, um, so it's a mess. And then that works. Going to air it. They don't care. Crayons like, please don't air it. They're like, we're airing it.

And then Crayon goes, how the fuck did she even get footage from the crime scene? And Benson screams, I took her phone. And then, but that's like, you know, she's a cookie bitch. So it's either packs and helps her, um, or like, she had a backup phone, like, who fucking know, we know what it is. She has a backup phone. So then now, we need to find Sonya. So then, um, Alicia's on a white couch, chilling with a mug. She goes, I want my life back. And Finn goes, Finn calls her stupid. And they're like, why taunt a

killer like that? You stupid. And then, um, but she goes, well, something has to work since the cops aren't working. And I want to, you know, get him off balance. I want him raging. And, um, they're like, you're covering for Sonya. She goes, Sonya didn't do anything. I had a backup camera in my pocket. Um, they're like, but Sonya's not answering her phone. And she goes, listen, she wanted a drink, so she went to a meeting, like, what a, a meeting. So they rushed to the

A, a meeting. And they have a photo of Sonya. And they go, have you seen this woman? And they're like, um, this is like anonymous. Like what? That was, I guess you haven't heard. This is anonymous. But Sonya's car still outside. So then Benson goes to the lady, ladies room. I guess everyone in A, A, no one needs to pee. Sonya's bleeding out on the floor. The mirrors broken, blood everywhere, uh, throat slit cut, blood, blood, blood, they're, get it calling for a bud. Benson's trying to hold

her throat slit like, as it bleeds. Um, she can't breathe. They lied to her. She's going to be okay. There's no fucking way. Yeah. Like, a pretty loud A, a meeting, too. There's like a full-fucking struggle. She's lying on the floor bleeding out. There's a smashed mirror. No one heard anything. We're going to church basement, aren't we? And it's like an hour long meeting. Like, no one wants to pee before they have to get back on the train. I don't understand. It is wild. So, but then, um,

Sonya gets her last dying words out. And she says, I got him. And then dies in Benson's bloody arms and lap. Sonya's dead. Benson has sad. Finn just a furrowed brow. I'm not sure what emotion he has. Benson's face though is really good here. Like her acting as if she is fucking, you can see. I mean, she's seen a lot of shit, but this is like fuck. This is like a woman that was kind of my friend. Like, even though it was like a little bit love hate, she's like, this woman that I know

just died in my arms. Like, fuck. Like, she's really, we forget about this trauma because she's been trauma. So, I so much. Benson and that we forget that this was like pretty wild. I forgot she liked guys in her arms. So, then Benson has like a thick forehead vein. It's throbbing. And then the camera has taken a photo of her dead body and Melinda calls for Olivia to get off the floor. She slowly peels herself up. And like, you could tell she's been crying and her nose is a little red,

make up department, you nailed it. Blood loss was steady. So, she bled out for a while and no one peed. No one went. No one heard hell of being thrown around. Did the mirror break? Like,

yes, Warner. I remember when I watched this like live the first time I was really sad because you

“guys know I love Sonya. I think she was having a redemption and I felt like we could have had her”

get attacked but saved. You know, like, she could have lived. Maybe it was sweeps. Maybe it was sweet.

and Warner was like, well, I don't know yet. And she says she said she got him that means she got him.

And so, she's like trying to figure it out. Melinda's like, uh, what she's on the table and that really like upsets Benson like thinking about her friend being on the like more table. And then she goes, this place is fucking trash. She worked hard. Like, she fought him. She and then so it's like he grabbed her from behind Warner says there's a smash phone in the sink that tacked it not go as planned. She went down swinging. He lost control. And so she bit him. They're like, she bit him. She knew

she was going to die and she bit him. So, they're like, is there DNA? There's a hair in the throat. So, she's going to swap them out and then check her stomach for his blood. This is some thorough investigative. So, stabilers there and runs to hug her and she collapses into his arms. It's pretty sexy for sure. Um, I should have come back sooner. He says and she asks if

“he checked security logs for the heartings office. And he's like, well, that's what I can I just say.”

Also, I looked up some, I looked up something about this episode like I had a question about it. And I found this blog from like the actual time period. And people were like talking about the commercial for this episode was like really plugging that hug. Like everybody, like they were really getting the Olivia Elliot shippers hot and bothered with this hug. I don't say that because I don't watch this episode. I forgot about this and it is probably one of my favorite interactions

they've ever had. She really falls into his arms. Yeah. She's really upset. If I did this came out and I watched it live and I was right in the right moment, I could be events and stable to shipper as well. But, but I'm not. Yeah, but the commercials back in 2011, they would have come back. Yeah, yeah, gotten me to be honest, knowing my interact. It's so funny because I'm like obsessed with either rivalry, obviously right now. And so like people are like,

newer people in my life are like, if I'm out at a thing or like, oh, are there other fandoms you

like, I go, don't get me started. I go unfortunately. It's like one of 10 things. Like it never

acts. Yeah, but at least it's consistent. Seeing the backstreet boys this year and then also in 1999 made me really be like, wow girl, you're living your inner child. And also with me in 2022, when do we go? 2223? I mean, was it not one of the best experiences of your life? It was great. It was so fun. So fun. It was so fun. I will say I really enjoyed our seats at that. I, you know, we had, we had nice seats. So I like, I had a great time. Yeah, last. Yeah, because of when I went to

high in Cuba, I was like, oh, maybe they're not, maybe I'll sit in those seats again and I was like,

“well, I'm sitting in the back. No, when you have to pay for those seats, definitely. But yeah,”

it's just like they're so good. Yeah. Yeah, you love what you love. But yeah, it's like, yeah, one of my interests is a full podcast. I'm holding an Olivia Benson later. Like, yeah, I want to tell you. Thank God, it's cop Gandice. I don't get it at tattooed on my body, but I would. Right. She asks if you check security logs for heartings office. And he's like, well, that's actually why it took me so long to get here. I checked on every single mail that checked in in the last six months.

One name rang a bell. David Adams, because he doesn't exist. It's a fucking ghost. And he only goes to see one person, the assistant Rachel. And I will be honest, the moment you see her, you know it's her. Like, it took me, like, I wanted to, I wanted to maintain the integrity of the episode for people that just listened to us. I like suspense. I wanted to see him like I didn't know. So I'm going to talk about it. But it is obvious it is her from the moment you see this bitch. Is it not?

Yeah. Yeah. Well, when you see her, yeah, you're like also, yes, because you know why she's a little bit like more of a charactery actress than to just be like, yeah, you just check into the beginning of the day and you get a pass by like there's a certain actor that they hire for that kind of role. And there's another actor that they're going to

“hire to have more of a role. And she just seems like a more of a role person. Does that make sense?”

Yeah. Oh, wait. Um, okay. Her name is Ashley Atkinson. And I looked up because I've seen her in a lot of stuff. Well, she got one part. I really wanted it. And I felt like I could do better than her in it.

But that's like, but she's great and has a very incredible career. So many credits. Like the

bitch works. Yeah. She's on the, she's on the, she's on the right now. She's on gilded age. She was in on just like that. She's in everything. She works. Yeah. She's working. She works a lot. But when I looked at her, I mean, to be, I think this is one of her first things. Like I think her, her SVU is like pretty early on in her career. So well, no, actually, I'm lying. She was working for a long time before she did us. Yeah. She is somebody else. A very successful working actor. Yeah. I hope she owns

property. So. So this is in her name's Rachel. But because also being like, I made keys for everyone.

Stabler walks the other way. So we have Rachel at the precinct. She goes in no, no, no, David's like a really good guy. We've been dating for months. Um, she's like, and then they're like, and you didn't sign him in all the time, huh? She goes outside a big deal to my boyfriend. And they're like, David's a

“con man. She goes, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Say, because, oh, you think he's perfect, aren't you?”

Or are you thinking right now of every moment? He's ever brought up Alicia. And then she starts to quiver. And he's like, wasn't she a little too interested? Did he use you? Was any of it real? And it's like, can you be nicer to this? Like, she's her life spooked. So she goes, I'm not a fool. But she's fully crying at this point. But she goes, I am not a fool. I can tell when I'm being played. And he goes, okay, maybe we're wrong. But only David can straighten it out, right? So like,

where's David? And she goes, well, he lives downtown, and I've never been there. He's a shame.

We've been playing for months. He's ashamed of his place, but she'll give him the address to where it is. And Benson asks for the phone number. And she goes, well, he doesn't even have a phone, and I offer to buy him a phone, but he was too proud to take it. And I liked that. So she smiles creepily. This is getting Saturn by every second. Every moment. Every moment. Every detail is like, oh, he calls her and checks in every day. And they leave her in woodroom blinds. And then Benson goes,

you think she'll call him. And he's like, duh, they trace the cell phone immediately, office lines, whatever. She's dialing out. He's using a burn phone. He's uptown near Riverside, near Alicia's place. So they're going to send her out as bait, which is like, what she's wanted this whole time. So she walks down, that like the bait she wanted, a guy in a black beany, he comes up. She starts punching him. He, she calls him a murdering bastard. He has a knife

turtle. She's screaming, shoot him, shoot him. And they have guns on him. There's a taser on him. Alicia's screaming. He's like, I'm in charge. I'm in charge. And Saber tells everyone to shut the fuck up. Alicia goes, I want you alive. I want you to sit in the cage. And then she takes. And then Benson gets a taser. And so taser have the episode. It gets to the next. They don't use tasers a lot. They only, they're tasin' a lot in this episode. The baby, let me tell you I have a new dream roll,

and it's to get tasers done as to be you. Like, I want to shake. I want to shake in that bottom of the courtroom. That's someone's gaffling. I would love it. So so he's in cement room bars, obviously,

“Adam Grafton, 43 physicians assistant. That's how he has the like, scalpel information.”

Okay, can I say one thing, first of all, becoming a physician's assistant is very difficult.

It's really hard. He is like doctors. But also, what was this guy's plan? Like, broad daylight, just following Alicia down the street. And then he was going to like murder her in the street. Like, what was the plan? He lost. He got fucked up because the cops showed up or she turned around. But like, no, it was, he lost, he knew he was, it was all caving in nothing mattered anymore, because like, this Sonya didn't go as plans. And he's been warned by his girlfriend.

And so he knows that after him, he's like, I got a killer. I got to get her. Like, such as white whale. Okay. Okay. Like, I think he's losing it. Okay. Because I was like, he's just walking down the street broad daylight with him. I, he also looked like a cartoon burglar like stealing puppies. Because when I saw him on screen, I go, that's not going to be him. That's like a, I go, yeah, that's a red hearing. Yeah, yeah. Because he also has a pet peeve of mine, where when I had, doesn't cover your

“ears. And it's like, but that's what you're trying to keep warm, right? Your ears, like, you fucking,”

I, I, it kills me. So the next day is he, whatever. So physician's assistant. He is smart. I mean, they said he's smart and that he had medical stuff and forensic knowledge and met, you know, so he lived and he lived eight blocks away from the hearting family. So that means he did live next. So the sisters back in the day. Uh-huh. Which means he could have killed the sister. He did five years for rape and assault. They're like, oh, no, how do you get such a light sentence? And it's

because the victim was a sex worker. So he raped and like beat this woman almost to death or to death, whatever. He only got five years, nearly to death. Yeah. So, and the Jane Does were probably all working girls and sailors like fuck. He's not going to talk to us and Benson goes, why know who he will talk to and it's debroomessing. But debroomessing is packing. She doesn't want to live there anymore. She doesn't like the idea of him and his bed, um, like in her bed and stuff.

Benson goes, wow. So you're giving up and it's like, can you not bully this woman? Like, you, the whole episode you're like, get away, get away, get away, get away from us, get away from us. Stop helping. Like you're not going to help us. It's so annoying. Um, but she goes to the killer's cloth. There's nothing left to do. And Benson goes, we need to identify the victim. She goes, you have your work cut out for you then. Basically, Deborah's like, what's done has done. It's

been 25 years for looking for this piece of shit. I'm done. I'm done. And it's like, we need your help talk to him. Please. No, thank you. Come on. We need closure. The victims. Well, uh, she also doesn't think that, like, you know, actually tell her where Vanessa's body is, but then call her a manipulative

bitch. Like, I, like, love this episode. They got to do it. And we'll never tell you. You're a manipulative

bitch. It's kind of great. It's the best. Okay. So then we're at records and he goes, whenever I

babe, we know you're not fucking. Your dick does not work. They do. They go, who are you kidding?

“You, we know you didn't touch him. Uh, you like your women dead. Or that's why he like paralyzes them.”

So then he goes, I only want to talk to the red head and then the red head's like, no, Benson's my best friend. She's staying. And he says, you want to know about your sister. She says you killed her and she's dead. He says, no, maybe, Vanessa isn't even dead. Maybe I just been playing games with her. And she goes, I don't have time for this. You know, we need to know about these six women. Where did you meet them? Who are they? And they start to audio record. He

goes, audio, honey. I'm not here for podcasts. Where's the camera crew? He wants attention. He says, is this real? Like, if I give you names, dates, locations, you're going to tell my story. And Benson goes, if you cooperate and tell the truth, he says it could take a while. There's one for each year I've been living. And he says, took them in clumps. You know, we don't see this guy a lot, but they make him so chilling and evil at the end that I got scared to hear the real crime.

Yeah, because I was like, oh, this guy is sick. He is a sociop. So basically, some years he didn't

hunt at all. But there's 43 women total. And he goes, well, 44 if you count the lawyer. And then he calls her a meat sack. And then he and then he's so evil. He's grinning. But she wants to work and just start with the New York victims. And then she goes, and then we could go to Maryland. He goes, oh, you know, about that. And she goes, yeah, and I'd like to know more. And they do kind of a face off,

“you know, and why do they not know? Didn't you send a photo of Maryland? I think she figured it”

out or something like that. Like, I don't know, who knows. He says mostly girls run away as a couple. I snatched and then I've been put up much of a fight. Want me to go in order from front to last. Annie, prove it. God, she was sweet. And they just have to listen to him like enjoy his dark journey.

And then that stick will baby you. Yeah, it's sort of like weird to me that they don't

ever have him explain like what he did to her sister. Like, she's not like, we're not seeing her get the closure. You know, like, you assume that like he's going to get to her on the list. But like, and I'm fine with them not giving all like nasty details. But why are we saying Annie, prove it? Why don't we like, I'm start with your sister, blah, blah, blah, you know, like, well, no, because you want to go in order. So I guess he killed before this is sir. Yeah.

Well, yeah, I had this like, um, I had this vision in my head of a scene where Debra Messing's sister gets found. And he's with, and she's there. But I think I'm thinking of the scene where they go to the dump. I think I superimposed that. I thought that like, I thought that there was closure. Like when this, when the dick wolf comes up, I was like, oh, it's over. I thought he takes her to the site. I made that up in my head. Um, okay. Let's get into some true crime.

Obviously neighborhood predator or whatever Alicia show is clearly based on to catch your predator, which was a recurring segment on date line and BC, which aired from 2004 to 2008. I thought that to catch your predator was on for like, at least a decade. I thought it was on for a long time. But really just those four years. And it was only on for really three. It was cancel the beginning of oh wait, but the last episode's ended in '07. So it was really only on for four, five, six, seven. So yeah.

And I worked at NBC at this time. Like this is the time period that I got interviewed on date line. So I have, I would do take show tours of the date line studios. Like this was when date line was in its fucking hayday because of to catch a predator. I feel like that's when people are really my sister still a huge date line fan. But you know, to catch a predator was juicing them their ratings. It was hosted by Chris Hansen. We know the story, like they would lure

sexual predators by posing as minors online. They would show up with like Lube, condoms, wine, coolers, et cetera, just like an episode. Really on the show, they just set up a few stings and they would use, they would use stings, one sting to do multiple episodes. So like they did one on Long Island, DC, Riverside, California, Greenville, Ohio, Fort Myers, Florida, Fort Shinjorja, Petaluma, California, Long Beach, California, Murphy, Texas, Flagler Beach, Florida,

Ocean County, New Jersey, and Bowling Green, Kentucky. So those were like the few cities that they did, and then just spread those into like four years of episodes. And yeah, there were only 20 episodes of to catch a predator. I thought there were like a hundred. I really thought it was like on for a long time. There was only, yeah, but how many people did it was how many arrests per episode? Well, it's hard to say because some of the different, like some of them they were arrested and then

all the charges got thrown out because of like, yeah, well, not really in treatment. I'll get into this. But like they said about Alicia in the episode, they accused her of making the news rather than

“reporting it. That's what the everybody starts to say about to catch a predator in when they're”

criticizing it. Like people are, there's some criticism for it. They get criticized for blurring

public eye blog argued that even though leave Gold Creek precautions were brought about by law enforcement by broadcasting the suspects on national TV. It's like you're going out punishments yourself as the media by like humiliating somebody on television, whether or not they like it's basically it feels like you're going around due process because even though they might not be getting jail time,

you're publicizing them and we do have a legal system. I mean, it's not always, it's often bad.

But um, so he, but at least someone's caring. Like who cares? It's like at the end of the day, if the pedophiles weren't running our whole world, then the law enforcement now. Yeah, because in my head, it's like, oh, no, there's a legal system. Yeah, built by pedophiles. So like, yeah, I don't know. I'd rather than try to maybe think pedophilia is wrong. I'm, I'm on croissance inside. No, for sure, but then other people were saying like the NBC cares more about ratings than they do

about actually like, you know, bringing pedophiles to justice. Okay, sure, but at least they care more of the files and the cops. You know what I mean? Like it's like the cops are not doing this and enough, I guess. Like they're not doing this. Like there's not the manpower to like

“police the internet because I think as this show, like this show, as few you started five years”

before to catch predators. So at this time period, late 90s, early 2000s, we're sort of realizing how deep the pedophile well is because of the internet, you know, and because of chat rooms and all this shit that we've only really had at that point for like 10 years. So some people argue that the show was guilty of entrapment, but since they are not law enforcement, like they really can't be like liable for entrapment, like that can't be part of it. So they didn't really get busted for

entrapment. In one of their last stings, the one in Murphy, Texas was November of 2006, 25 men arrived in the location over four days. And that's like Murphy, Texas. That doesn't seem like it's like a massive city or anything. So that's 25 pedophiles coming and it's like kind of what Alicia was saying how there was this one location, one sting where so many of them kept coming. They had to move

“them out the back door or whatever, right? So I think that's like what they're referencing here.”

So in this Murphy texting, all these guys came over four days. And law enforcement was investigating

additional guys who had been chatting with their like mole online, but who never showed up.

And one of the guys that was a no show was Kaufman County Assistant District Attorney Bill Conrat. And when police arrived at his house with a search warrant in November of 5th of tooth out on November 5th of 2006, Conrat shot and killed himself. So that brought a lot of, because this is a person who's online exchanging shitty horrible information, but doesn't actually show up to the meat. And when they shut up at his house, just the fear of being exposed,

he takes his old life. So that brings a lot of attention also to to get your predator. And he had been, yeah, he'd been chatting and exchanging picks with a volunteer from perverted justice, which is a watchdog group that worked with to catch a predator who was posing as a 13-year-old. And yeah, right as the NBC camera crew entered his home, he took his old life and they got the scene on camera, the fatal shot. So he's badly, yeah, I don't know if they showed it or anything,

but they got it on camera. He is family later sued date line for $105 million and the case was

settled for an undisclosed amount. And then the show wrapped up at the end of 2007. And Chris Hanson said it had quote unquote "run it's course", which is like, I mean, maybe, it's not like pedophilia got solved, but a lot of the criticism they said it felt like maybe the show got too high risk for NBC, especially with people like taking their lives and stuff like that. The other thing is to answer your question, there was one sting where they got a bunch of guys in the judge through

them all out. So it's hard to say how many people actually got busted from it, you know? Because also, it's like when the cops do a sting like this, do they wait until someone has to

“make a move before they, you know what I mean? You know how it's like you have to buy the drugs”

before we can bust the person, you know? Like, do they wait until the person tries to like kiss the minor or the person posing as the minor before they can do it? Or then the charges like, it's like, I wonder like what the charges are for, it's like solicitation. Is that as bad? That's not going to get you as bad of a charge. It's like pedophilia, like actual sexual assault, but you also don't want anyone to get assaulted. So that's the date line of it all. That's

the ticket to Predator or the Alistair Show part of it. So this is one of those episodes where a lot of

it's headbundee. I don't think it's headbundee. And some people think that it is related to

“the Gilgo Beach murder, which it has a lot of, which we covered in the episode daydream believer.”

Whenever people bring up the Gilgo Beach killer, I go, we covered it before it was solved. For some reason, it makes me feel cool, but like, it's all dead. But what's weird in this, if you remember in the Gilgo Beach murder, there was a victim named Melissa Barthelomy. And eight days after she disappeared, her sister Amanda got a call from her phone number, but it's a man asking, are you a whore like your sister? Are you planning on becoming a

prostitute? Like asking all these, but then he called her like six times, but never for more than 90

seconds, like he knew he was being traced. And then in the last colleague told her he killed his sister. So he wanted to terrorize the sister. So that part to me is a little bit maybe borrowed from the stalking of Alisha and everything. It also reminds me of the Martin Short episode. Yes. Wait, like disguises his voice, but it's so if you know, you're so clearly like this is evil

“Martin Short. But I think it seems, this guy's killing seems most like Gary Ridgeway, who is the”

green river killer, who is, I think he's like a serial killer who basically didn't really have that much remorse. Like, and that's, I feel like fits the Gary Ridgeway, the number of people, etc. People said that Gary Ridgeway was strange, but pretty normal. Like he wasn't like a, he was an unassuming truck painter. Like he wasn't a person that people were like, you got to watch out for that guy. According to women he had relationships with. He was a sex fiend. He wanted sex multiple times a

day. He wanted sex in public or in the woods. And he was also weirdly obsessed with sex workers. Like he would complain about them being in his neighborhood and he would say he hated them, but then he would also solicit them and hire them. So definitely a Madonna and horror complex that many men have about women. Ridgeway grew up in the Seattle Tacoma area. And it's believed that he killed around 71 teenage girls and women there in the 80s and 90s. He said he killed so many that he lost

count. But what's crazy is the majority of the murders took place between 1982 and 1984. He wasn't arrested until 2001. And at the time that he was arrested, he was considered the most prolific serial killer in the US. Like, I, um, yeah, I've heard this name, the green river killer. Yeah, well, I'll tell you, I know why you've heard the name and I'll get to it. It also reminds me of like a soda. Is there a green river soda brand or something? Green mountain.

There's like green mountain coffee? No, I don't know. I don't know. But he was considered this prolific serial killer. The most prolific serial killer as of 2001. In 2003, he was convicted of murdering 49 women between 1982 and 1998 in the Pacific Northwest. Like, grafting, the character in the show, he killed mostly sex workers runaways and other vulnerable women. Unlike grafting, he didn't stab. He would strangle his victims often by hand

and sometimes using ligatures. So basically what he would do is he would pick up women on

Pacific highway south or he'd go to strolls like areas where sex workers worked. And many times, he would show a picture of his son. He had a son with his second wife. And that would to get women to trust him. And most of the women were killed in his home. He would bring them back to his home or in his truck, or he would take them to a wooded area. And one of his common things he would do is he would start having sex with them from behind. And then in the middle of

intercourse would put them in a chokehold and strangle them to death. So it's so psychotic. Like, so psychotic. And then he would dump them around the green river and around the sea tack airport. And they were usually nude. Sometimes they were posed. He also had two confirmed victims in Portland, as well as two suspected. And those he later told people he killed in the Seattle area and drove to Portland to confuse police. So this guy was thinking like he was smart. Like he was

always trying to he would contaminate crime scenes with gum and cigarette butts because he didn't

smoke or chew gum. So he would like do all this shit to try to throw authorities off, moving the bodies. And you think he would jump him up and use Garbett? Like with a gum and cigarettes or like maybe maybe he was actually chewing it. And because it's like before DNA, so I don't think he was

“that worried about DNA. I think he was just like I'll leave the butts here and people will think”

it's a smoker. And I'm not a smoker, you know. So maybe he smokes it by the cigarette down. I don't know. I don't know. He became a teenager. A teenage no inhale. So he, he would dump bodies and heavily

necrophilia on them. And he said that the necrophilia wasn't a preference. He didn't like actually like having sex with dead bodies. He said it was just a good way for him to like feed his sex addiction without killing another victim and risk getting caught. I don't think he really cared about the victims

“per se. But I think he's like every time I go out there and I take somebody I'm putting my self out”

there. So if I can just actually rape the bodies of these these dead bodies like that'll actually be a few more times that I don't have to go kidnap a live woman. Like it's so fucked. And he I know a lot about this guy because I read a book about him. But he later confessed that he would take his X, wives to the dump sites for picnics or to have outdoor sex. So that like you know was a thing that

he liked whatever. So after his first five victims were found, the green river task force was put

together. Okay. Robert Keppel and David Reichert were on the task force. Robert Keppel wrote a book called The River Man. Ted Bundy and I hunt for the green river killer, which is a book I read. I don't know if I finished it but I got like three quarters of the way. And it was basically about how he did like a Hannibal Lecture situation. He used talking to Ted Bundy to try to find the green river killer and Ted Bundy did give them information like Ted Bundy was the one who suggested that

green river killer was returning to the dump sites to have sex with his victims and he was correct. So yeah. So and also there I didn't watch it but there is a documentary based off of this book called Ted Bundy dialogue with the devil that came out on Hulu this past August of 2025. So that's like the documentary version of the book and yeah I remember because this is how I got really into this female FBI agent that helped find Ted Bundy and I like want to write a movie about her because

I feel like she's the one that helped find Ted Bundy because she got into the mind of how he was convincing women to go with him because the cops were just being so fucking stupid and they're very stupid in the green river case as well. So you know because you know I was just thinking in my head like when you care or want to know about crime stuff it's like who's your favorite or what's your favorite and it's like I don't find any of these people fake like I don't you know like

case wise and in my head I'm like the people that stick with me are like the prosecutor and the calling stand case or like all those detectives that like the Robin Williams with all the phones and like I don't know these helpers and then like this woman you know like that's you that's who like the crime 70s to be more focused on than like whoa it's Ted Bundy your head get what do you know about this one and I'm like go get your jolly's off over there kind of happens with Russian like

when people are obsessed with Russian and like have you read this book I don't have to read anything

“I don't you know what I mean yeah that's how I feel with this like sometimes if I like I don't care”

about these guys I funk these things confusing two people and gorgeous was a female researcher with

the FBI who consulted with the FBI to basically create profiling but the woman I'm talking about is

a detective not an FBI she was a detective named Kathleen McChesney and she was like an a female detective at a time that there weren't really a lot of them during the Ted Bundy stuff and she was instrumental in helping bring him down and and changing the profile of him I think she was like one of the first people that was like I think he's attractive like I think he's a person I don't think he's this uh, can somebody help me you know like like he was like this nice

kind of cute guy being like would you mind helping me get my water skis in the car and then like fucking grabbing people you know so yeah but I was so Kathleen McChesney is why I was thinking up but she was not FBI so speaking of FBI though the other guy who was on the task force David Reichert he ends up later becoming a congressman and then there was also FBI special agent John E. Douglas and he is Jonathan Groff's character in mine hunter you're mine hunter right do you watch mine hunter

I for sure watch the first season I watch most seasons for sure yeah yeah yeah yeah I don't know

I'm protected my phone my Google like knows exactly who I am in a way that is so creepy where pretty much every six months there'll be like updates on mine hunter season three they're like we know you want it like they they just like know that I have Netflix and that I liked the first two and that I have this podcast and they're like you want another season of mine hunter they keep teasing it like it's gonna happen but we'll see anyway they are um because they're both hot in different

“ways too and I like that the other guys in SVU guy and I think yeah well yeah he's spider man he's”

best he's my fetches yeah you get any closer to me I'm gonna kick your balls and pull about

episode this was just that was spit out right yes yes but but but but the spurms weren't folded

they were still yes you're okay yeah frozen sperm is beef manipulated is spit sperm just for everybody's um you know nemonic devices okay so right shirt and kettle are talking to Ted Bundy a lot in 1984 they're and he's offering them all these thoughts about the motives the psychology like

“I said the necrofelia is like something he brings to the table um and so that's how they're trying”

to find him uh does it work this task force that they start not really okay because the cops are all like dumb uh Gary Ridgeway was actually a suspect in 1983 in April of 1983 a guy named Robert Woods watched his girlfriend 18 year old Marie Malvar get into Gary Ridgeway's truck and he noticed that it had patches of primer and remember Gary Ridgeway was like a truck painter um so he follows them to a motel parking lot and out again and then he loses them at a traffic signal okay a few days later

he reports for missing because she hasn't turned up but why did he go in the call like what's going on maybe she's a sex worker and he was she does that I don't know but like I don't know I actually don't know the story behind that she's 18 but um Huck he reports for missing he describes

“a dark pickup and a dark hand paired man 30 to 40 Ridgeway was 34 and Marie's father is like”

scouring the neighborhood with all these other men in the family and they spot a truck a maroon pickup truck parked in front of Ridgeway's home and they call the cops a detective get sent out to talk to Ridgeway he denies knowing her this detective just believes him and later Gary Ridgeway made it public that he was standing against a fence in his yard while being questioned by this detective trying to hide scratches on his arm that she had left on his arm as she fought for her

life like he had already killed her and like he was trying to hide the scratches from the detective and after the detective left he burned the gouges with battery acid to disguise them so that they wouldn't look like scraping her nail scrapes and then he returned to the wooded area where he had dumped her body and he buried her and this is so sad like her family had found her ID near the Seattle to call that airport and so they had hope that maybe she went somewhere maybe she

flew away right he planted at there to throw the cops off he planted her idea that airport so he's thinking this guy he's not just like an animal who's like I got a kill I got a kill I'm like I have this urge it's like he's doing it and then plotting how not to get caught right and for some reason they just buy his story and then he passes a polygraph in 1984 but the cops are like don't worry we're still keeping an eye on him okay but in 1985 he starts

dating Judith Mossen and he marries her in 1988 and she's his third wife and yeah like he was only

married to his first wife for a couple of years and then he was married to his second wife for like eight years and then after his second wife is when most of his murdering happened and and then 88 to 2002 he's married to Judith and that's like so that they're married for 14 years basically till he gets caught so she's his third wife Judith and she's completely unaware that he's a serial killer and doesn't even know about the green river killer because she does it watch the news she says he's

this nice guy she's a great husband she does not see anything fucked up about him and Ridgeway actually says that his kill rate plummeted when he was with Judith because he truly loved her and he was happy with her so of his 49 known victims only three were killed while he was married to Judith wow Judith saved a lot of lives she says it when they interview her she goes I think I saved

“I the only thing that I can literally keeps me probably from freaking the fuck out every minute of my”

life is that I saved some lives by being married to him I guess but in 1987 they did somehow get his DNA but he wasn't arrested until 2001 so it only took him 14 years to get him and then I think they just DNA was catching up and that's how they got him and so in 2003 he played guilty to 48

counsel first to remurter and he was spared the death penalty and exchanged for pleading guilty

and as Anne he agreed to cooperate with locating and identifying victims and so it just like so yeah he's older than fort but like it's almost the same as in the episode where he almost has one forever year he's been alive he's a little older when they find him but almost like the episode so he got 48 life sentences without parole served consecutively then he got 10 more

and then he later was given another life sentence when a 49th victim was found and on separate occasions he's claimed to be responsible for killing 65 women and another time 71 more recently he'd said 75 to 80 but a lot of people aren't sure if he's just trying to like up his count but you know the Pacific Northwest is like a heavily like wooded area and it's possible once you he wasn't like keeping a scrapbook I don't think like so it's possible that he literally did just like lose count

of some of them you know and they're just they were never found or their bodies just decomposed

before they were found so he could I'm sure he's responsible for more than 49 to be honest in his confession he said he targeted sex workers because they were quote easy to pick up and that he quote hated most of them he also confessed to the necrophilia he said um he said later on in his killing he would bury his victims so he would resist the urge to revisit their bodies because if you buried them he wouldn't go back and like dig them up but if you left them out you would

“go back oh it's so gross um maybe that's why I stopped reading the book the book was just like”

really really a lot it was just so many murders um in 2013 ridgeway was talking to Air Force criminal investigator Rob Fitzgerald about his crimes because um because starting in 2008 Fitzgerald had started hunting for his unidentified victims ridgeway spoke to Fitzgerald multiple times per week and he even provided Fitzgerald with photos of supposed dump sites to search so he was working with law enforcement afterwards kind of the way that this guy is agreeing to do at the end

of episode I don't think Gary Ridgeway ever wanted to be like on-date line but uh Gary Ridgeway still alive still in prison and he had health issues actually this past December of 2025 there were reports that he was dying in prison but apparently those were exaggerated and he's fine and he was beaten for most prolific American serial killer by Samuel Little that guy that you reported on when we did the they'd already disappeared episode so but Samuel Little has like 10 or 15 more than than uh

than Gary Ridgeway so for some reason I always thought Gary Ridgeway was 100 I always thought he was

like in the double digits but and that's just for the US there's more prolific serial killers outside of the US but um there are yeah when you look up the list of serial killers it gives you that's uh America would be not wrong that's something I googled yesterday I hate to say it but most prolific serial killers if you go if you go by number of victims there's some guy with 194 to 300 in Columbia Ecuador in Venezuela somebody agrees with 500 plus someone

in Columbia Peru Ecuador 300 plus someone in Pakistan with 100 Russia 86 180 what's the Russia

“guy's name? Mikhail Popkov yeah I think I watched the thing about him 92 to 2010 the wherewolf yeah”

I saw yeah he was like in the cave because during their courts they're in a cell he was convicted of 22 but a confess to more to 59 yeah I know that face x-cop yeah so yeah I mean there's even like there's China I Iran India there's a lot I mean one in Afghanistan 300 from the 70s and then Samuel Little is our is our number one in the Gary Ridgeway yeah US doesn't even really have that any many more in the top we don't have any more in the top

those two um which is crazy because I do consider the US to be a big serial killer place um that's that that's that on that um yeah I didn't think it was Ted Bundy because Ted Bundy didn't necessarily go after sex workers like in the same way and like um he was he went after and all the game playing like I didn't all of that yeah yeah yeah yeah I've heard of the green river and I didn't know one single thing about him yeah and he looks I mean obviously when you see

“him in his shackles and everything just like a fucking I just the thing I remember about the green”

river killer is always hearing once he married his wife he basically stopped killing

like and that was always so crazy to me because it's like I didn't know true love could stop you from being a serial killer I thought it was like a compulsion you know didn't completely stop him but three out of 49 and there were definitely more than that that's so interesting yeah so and just really creepy him and BTK like they because they reference they reference BTK in this episode but like I don't think in a just in a comparison serial killer kind of way but BTK Gary Ridgeways wife

the psycho and he always wanted to have like rough sexual like encounters like I mean these women

mostly reported they were a good husband you know that's creepy to think that you're just like living I was at the Alaska Baker was like that too yeah I think maybe too yeah he had like two kids in a wife right like not no one suspected him but all right what no guests today so let's just move on to our postmortem I mean this is a jam packed episode like honestly I mean I said my regular person gets murdered we have Deborah Messing on one lots of locations lots of cameras lots of fun

lots of fun lines lots of funny lines yeah yeah a lot of really funny lines and honestly it's kind of crazy to me that it took till season 12 for them to do a to catch a predator thing you know

“yeah I guess you're right but that's how we're feeling with the housewives I think it's because it's all”

NBC properties and so they're gonna be more strict about it I think that's why we're not getting

housewives stuff mm I think they don't want to like talk about NBC things because they had a fucking trump one right for the season and they're not doing it or about ice like NBC plays some fucking games yeah I mean the fucking CBS is it news anymore that polls are stopping that the post it's like it's all just really crumbling it's the entire sports section at the post right before the Olympics a bunch of these reporters are like our tickets are already purchased they were going

like they're like reporting the Olympics for themselves I guess and it's because all the American athletes are pissed and are against this administration is that why no I think it's just

“the Basos did huge cuts at the Washington Post so no more sports and that's that I guess yeah”

because he needs a little more money yeah look at the corner so he can buy his wife a new like face or whatever she needs oh fuck oh so I had to go to the genius bar again obviously basically he was like you've got too many tabs he put the thing up he goes look at how many tabs are open he goes he it's just can't run on these tabs so I have to I have to minimize because I've told

him I go I usually have a 40 tabs open minimum multiple screens split screens there's always

I have there's always a project I'm always typing I mean at this moment I have a one two three four five six seven browser windows open and in each browser window I have multiple tabs open yeah yeah right now I only have one window and it has one two three four five six seven eight nine

“ten eleven twelve thirteen fourteen sixteen but that's like a slow day for you oh yeah you”

not searching the internet today much um so that's the genius bar I'm gonna I'm gonna unlock a new fear for everybody the guy was fun we were having some fun you know we were laughing and I go do you ever find some dirty stuff I'm like what do you find like have you ever opened the laptop and it's like how do people act and he goes oh well you know sometimes you open it and bedbugs will come out and I want to excuse me and he goes yeah they like hot warm places

and they can get under the buttons and it's warm and nice and there and if it's on the bed they hop on in the way I just fully gasped and fell backwards I care that is so horrific yeah yeah he said cockroaches and I go oh I was thinking more porn not animals but thank you for ruining my life and he said no when I open it and it's porn there on bothered it's usually people that are unbothered yeah one time Jared's computer when he was watching porn got that like

fully shut the bed and got that like folder what the question mark and I was like well I'm gonna bring it to the genius bar and just see if they can you know revive it and then I'll just donate it if they can and he goes but like the last thing I was watching isn't gonna pop up is it I was like no I don't think it's works like that when your computer completely shits the bed it's like the battery ran out he was like really concerned now but it's also like the genius

bars so like my laptop's not been working for how long oh I've been complaining yeah he goes well we can you can leave it with us to repair it'll take five to seven days and what world are people giving up their laptops for five to seven days do you have a loner is this like a rental car situation and I asked that and he laughed and I go well are you really I'm like everyone worked like what are you expecting me to do and then I planned when I could kind of get rid of it

or like I mean I went off I obviously went off on a full tangent I was pissed I'm pissed can you find do you know anybody that maybe has two you can just borrow one sure you know I'm gonna wait until this crashes my life is I bought a thing to external I bought an external arm yeah okay good so I mean he was like I was carry Bradshaw he's like you know you got to back this up I go okay I'm like oh bye so I'm not I'll just wait till one faithful day when I panic and then I'll have to buy a new laptop

“okay that's another plan to yeah yeah I think that's what's gonna or maybe if I have a fun trip”

coming up where I don't need my laptop like what are you talking about like I need my laptop like five to seven days if it was like if it was just a day that you were traveling and you just needed laptop for like movies and stuff you could borrow one or an iPad from somebody and then like I don't know you know you know I'm so tech stupid I didn't even think because like I'm just saying you wouldn't need it for like your work at it it allegedly in this week that we're finding where you

don't have like a lot of actual work to do on a yeah um anyway just to get rope it back into the post mortuary quiz I just thought I'd bring up the bed bug thing to upset the the mashings that is so upsetting also though there's a scene in the pit where case you're you watching the pit at all I'm so good you guys but there's a on you watching the pit

“before he watches he'd arrive or he I don't know if it's not gonna be alive I don't know”

they are the absolute opposite vibe for each other you the pit is the the heated rivalry is the antidote for the pit I would watch he did rival refers just out of fear yeah and it's quick I mean it's 15 episodes the first thing of the pit and they're like heart stopping like so but there's one more an on-house guy gets brought in and when they open his jacket three rats run out so it reminded me a little bit of your and then there are three rats running around the ER for a lot

of it and they have to figure it out but back to this the post mortuary on today's episode I mean

I've always for some reason had a real I'm not gonna say favorite serial killer that's like

psycho but I've always had a real like fascination with Gary Ridgeway like how he was able to do it for so long so many victims and then just like stopped when he was happy with his wife like it's so strange I was gonna go in a social gathering because it really was it just like it goes against everything we know about serial killers like I do a full standup joke about how Ted Bundy had a girlfriend the entire time he was killing it wasn't like he was this insel who never had any

female attention like yet a full girlfriend and he was basically playing stepdad to her child that's her next merch hot guys can kill too yeah hot guys kill yeah hot guys are killing hot guys none of them are hot Ted Bundy's not even hot you know Richard Ramirez is the only hot guy yeah but because Luigi is innocent so it's like kind of the ultimate happy wife happy life guy I mean he like the really stop killing so I don't know if you and I I mean he's I like

that is wife also she was probably just like willing to have sex all the time and never watch

the news he was like you are my dream woman like she never watch the news she had no idea that sex workers were disappearing like at a I'm sorry I keep changing the subject but I think you're gonna like this I texted my niece and I texted my niece and that fuse this photo and I said I want this for my birthday and they said they're gonna make it happen so it's a camo sweatshirt and it says I'm not just an aunt I'm also a bitch oh my god they have to get that for you

“you have to pose with them in it like that said actually even texted me after I sent that I'm like okay”

okay I like that's good that's so freaking good oh my god I know my algorithm knows me so well it's like I understand how people are like trying to fuck AI robots like I do my phone just knows what makes me feel good because it's like heater rivalry heater rivalry within it's like

here's a whole some all-star moment here's the thing about you're being an aunt you know what

and here's a penguin are you successfully reprogramming your algorithm towards things that you like that are not making you furious are you getting less furious stuff yeah I told you this obsession is for the better yeah my yeah yeah wow I was I'll admit I haven't seen you go I usually I see when you're going out someone in the comments no no I've actually been going way to go like I've been commenting wow like your look is beautiful no people been like why did you

why are you up so early I go yeah I just get up I just get up a few heated rivalry memes is all I need I don't even hit snooze anymore I'm up to show how I'm wired your DNA in a weird way

I did not unpack from Sacramento I there is a clothing pile but you know you're also leaving

“again very soon I think it's different when you're not in a great line yeah this is not a straight line”

yes a great and you're leaving kind of soon so I can understand why you're like I got a sore through this repack well now I've looked someone to come clean my apartment my my girl my girl Tony but I actually text her I'm like hey girl what time are you coming Thursday and she goes is this for me and I'm like should be more formal like my bad she didn't I don't know if she loved it but so I have to clean for her but I want to I want everything clean before my big grammar

see show this weekend oh well I have hair and makeup come to the house I just want everything really speaking sweet did you talk about at that beginning in the episode I don't think I did but it's it's past so you'll hear about how it went next oh it will it'll be have been passed oh yeah yeah yeah yeah no worries for a time of day I'm not linear either that's right it's this weekend okay well

“hey break a leg I can I don't know what I'm wearing I'm not buying anything new I'm trying to”

make it be like this is what I would wear but I have no idea what I'm gonna do but I refuse to buy anything new oh really yeah I'm not buying is something new I said I want to cut my spending in half and I was serious why don't you wear can you can you build a queue outfit around the heated rivalry crop top I can't have that no because it's also Boston and it's my big New York show so I

I would never do that you dumb bitch no I'm gonna I got the cities no I might take one of my

heater rivalry shirts to just take some photos since I hired Mindy Tucker the best in the biz to take photos but no I want to make it about you know it's like my show yeah you'll find some not about them but I'm not buying anything new and survival to thickest give me a lot of my wardrobe to keep you I don't maybe something for exactly like I'm gonna I'm gonna like see what I have and figure it out amazing just in case any of you thought I was out you're spending

up a storm I have not bought anything that was not a gift or he did rivalry related killing it all right and we ended up let's get into what would sister peg do this is our I'm sorry I wouldn't let you have a full post mortum I'm sorry I refuse to talk about I'm a predator I refuse to talk about the original concept of post mortum was like what did we

“learn from the episode and I think it's like I guess don't make sure your husband's not a serial”

killer like you know and that's that's all you know that's all we kind of learned from this one or that to catch a predator was why are we only on for like a very short amount of time it feels like such a huge part of the culture anyway let's get into what what sister peg do are weekly segment where we direct you towards an article an organization a documentary something you can get more information about what we talked about and this week I wanted to point you to the 2025 documentary

predators it covers the rise and fall of the show to catch a predator it features interviews with former decoys unseen raw footage and an interview with Chris Hanson and you can stream it on paramount plus so if you're interested in more if you're like a young jenzie listener and you're like I don't even know what you're talking about like what's to catch a predator this will catch you up on everything and that will be posted in our show notes and in a story the day this episode

comes out and all of our what sister peg do's are saved in highlights on our Instagram page that's messed up pod under WSPD and next week we'll be doing cold burr season nine episode 19 but obviously it's a double meaning thanks for listening we're obsessed with you bye bye that's messed up is an exactly right production if you have compliments you'd like to give us or episodes you'd like us to cover shoot us an email it that's messed up pod at gmail.com

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thank you so much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien and our associate producer Christina Chambrillin and to our mixer john Bradley and our guest booker patrick cotner and to Henry Capersky for our theme song and Carly Jean Andrews for our artwork thank you to our executive producers Georgia hard start caring keel garaf Daniel Kramer and everybody at exactly right media

we unpack the story of an unimaginable tragedy that gripped the UK in 2023 but what if we didn't get

the whole story out of this space of this the moment you know the whole picture of the case collage

“what if the truth was disguised by a story we chose to believe oh my god i think she might be innocent”

listen to doubt the case of Lucy let be on the i-heart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get

your podcasts this is special agent regal special agent Bradley Hall in 2018 the FBI took down

“a ring of spies working for China's ministry of state security one of the most mysterious”

intelligence agencies in the world the sixth bureau podcast is a story of the inner workings the

MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its fault of secrets listen to the sixth bureau on the i-heart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts

“I'm Clayton knackered in 2022 I was the lead of ABC's the bachelor but here's the thing”

bachelor fans hated him if i could press a button and rewind it all i would that's when his life took a disturbing turn a one night stand would end in a courtroom the media is here this case has gone viral the dating contract agreed to date me but i'm also suing you this is unlike anything i've ever seen before i'm Stephanie Young listen to love trapped on the i-heart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts