Mehdi Hasan: 9/11's Fallout 25 Years Later

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As for the music that I've been putting at the end of this podcast, since I took over, I've been trying to pick songs, have the least legs for you guys.

It's been something I've really enjoyed.

It's fun. I've also been doing this like three and a half years now. And I'm running out of fun picks, and I've got a lot of shit out of my life. And so, when I did instead, a couple of months ago, I was reached out to some artists that I've spoken to in the past, or featured in the past, to see if we could just license their songs and use them repeatedly at the end of the show.

Orval Peck, the Warren Drogs, MJ, Lunderman shout out to them, are allowing us to use some of their songs. I'm working on some others as well that we can add. From time to time, I'll still pick a little teaser for you guys, because I have fun doing it. But this way, that takes a little burden off me. Also, there's the playlist that I was creating that kind of stopped updating this summer.

At some point out, the boring day, and I'll go back in time and update the playlist, but it doesn't have kind of like the last two months of song. So I'm sorry about that.

“But we've got some great, and I think, kind of cheeky tunes that will now be ending the episodes with,”

and appreciate Orval and MJ, and the Warren Drogs shortness do that. We also have just on the event in Springfield. So overwhelmed by the response we've had. Go to the board.com/events. We've already sold hundreds of tickets to that in Dayton, actually, the Springfield benefit.

We will also, for people who can't make it, you know, be putting up some links where you can donate to the group. So we're going to be supporting them on profits in the community.

We are going to kind of sell out the first round of tickets, I think, in Dayton, which is pretty amazing.

So it's Friday night coming out with us, if you're anywhere near the board.com/events. It's going to be a meaningful night. We also have some new merch that I've been agitating for for a while. I wore last night, my capital swing of antifa, the bowl worked short. That's on.

Then my Instagram followers really got a kick out of it. So it's up. It's on the store. We also have a woke-bokestle shirt. It's a store. That's really funny.

And we've got updated the other stuff, too, with the new logo and the quality of the shirts are better. But we got a new hat coming. So a lot of good stuff in the store. Keep going on that. So there you go.

Up next. It's an interesting show. It's spicy. And I think you're going to appreciate it. It's media song.

Stick around. Hello, nothing in the board. Daily, I'm your host Tim Miller. I'd like to welcome back to the show. Founder CEO and editor in Chief of Zeteo.

We also host the weekly show. Median filtered. It's Mediasan. How you doing, man? Good Tim.

Thanks for having me. I'm happy to do it. Just a little behind the curtain for people. Last week, you interviewed Hunter on your show. And I was tickled by it.

We'll get to that maybe at the end. And so as you know, as is my-- So pre his crypto king name. Pre that. As is my kind of erratic booking strategy.

And I watched it. I enjoyed it. I texted you immediately. I looked at the schedule. I was like, we got an opening next Friday.

Are you available? You replied. You really want to interview me on 9/11 smiley face. And it hadn't occurred to me. But it felt right.

It felt appropriate to do it. There's a lot of people watching this bad faith act to do. I think it's appropriate for all the wrong reasons. Yeah. But that's bullshit.

Of course it's bullshit. I mean, I don't know. It just came on this show, Tim, minutes after switching on Twitter and seeing Mundani shaking hands with Rudy Giuliani at Ground Zero. I wouldn't have shaken that big at town.

Rudy Giuliani has been ridiculously Islamophobic and racist in recent days. More so than he normally is.

“But you know, that's what Muslims in public life have to put up with.”

I wouldn't put up with it. But it was around Mundani a much, nice amount of it. Isn't that right, though? I'm going to say it was around. He's given these guys so little work with that they've been stuck with just the

bigotry.

Like honestly, I took to Jessica to talk about this early this week and.

And she said that I guess some of the orthodox community or whatever, so some complaints. So like Zoron is tweeting about anti-Semitic attacks when they happen any time. Any place. I not even in New York. And he should do that.

Like that's good. Right. And he understands the concerns and he's doing what is, you know, everything possibly publicly as a public figure to a swage them. Yeah.

Isn't that just a good politics? Isn't that what we want? Don't you want the inverse? Yeah.

“Do you want decent human beings running for office?”

People who actually give a shit about other human beings? Yeah. Wow. We're such a cynical nation. Well, wow.

Here's a guy who actually seems to care about it.

So it gets, it gets pot holes fixed. The day you ask him to do it. Somebody had a great tweet. A Karma was said, you know, Zoron is running New York like a kid in a movie who suddenly gets all this power and just enjoys it.

He looks like he's happy. I don't know if you saw him in the school kids yesterday. He says, yes, to me, he looks like he's enjoying himself. People around him look like they enjoy themselves. He actually seems to be doing good as in municipal good with his powers.

And people can't handle it. You say we're so cynical. No, no, no, there must be some hidden agenda. No, no, it's a Muslim brotherhood take over of New York. People are desperate and his approval rate is meanwhile go up and up.

I think he's nearly 70%. Yeah. Right now. It's pretty gross. Like the way he's been treated.

Especially on this 9/11.

I mean, in general, I mean, I've been following Zoron since the very beginning.

I interviewed him when he was at 0.5% in the polls. He's been treated horrifically since the beginning.

“But I think the last week has possibly been one of the worst weeks of all.”

This idea that a guy who was 9 years old and 9/11 is somehow responsible for 9/11. Shouldn't be invited to a 9/11 ceremony. This made up bullshit story. By the way, Tim, I'm sure you have I've interviewed 9/11 family members. None of them have said they don't want Zoron.

I'm done. He's set up. I just interviewed the mother of Vanessa Langa, who was horrifically four months pregnant. 29 years old and 9/11 died, killed in the World Trade Center today. She said the only reason I would go to this ceremony because I love Zoron.

So this bullshit that the New York Post and Rudy Giuliani claim to speak for 9/11 families with this fake petition and ridiculous Republican city council members coming out with more racist every day. I don't know if you saw the interview, Tim, where he's asked about this again. And you just see it in his eyes.

He's like, he's the mayor of New York. It's a really sad day for New York. He wants to represent his people. And instead he's been asked this bullshit bad faith crap about 9/11. Oh, his lawyer was a lawyer for a 9/11 suspect.

That's what lawyers do. That doesn't mean Zoron Mumdani would pro 9/11. This kind of absolute endless shit that he's been put through. And by the way, you saw the vanity fair piece. I don't know if you saw that as well.

Where they said, you know, in the eyes of his critics, he's a stand-in for 19 hijackers. And then some of us called out vanity fair and they added a word. Oh, that's his line of phobic, obviously. They stealthed edited the beast.

Yeah, but that's his how Muslims feel now. Again, 20 years later, the same shit, the collective blaming, the stereotyping. It's just endless. Well, I don't start this. I've been abundantly good.

I like we went off on CBS in the way that they fucking hand-olds like comparing that, you know, saying that the 9/11 coming up. I'm still all say it's tweet. Yeah. Yeah, means things that that's time to reflect on.

I've do all say else I had positions. It was like, why? Like, what does it? I've do all I'll say. I had nothing to do with 9/11.

I've been disgusted by just the overed Islamophobic bigotry that would not be acceptable for any other demographic group in the country. You saw what Rudy Giuliani said, right? He specifically said that Muslims want to conquer us. And that's what Mamdani supports. Now, you imagine, and any, you imagine Zoran, figure out another man.

You imagine Zoran Mamdani saying, well, Benjamin Netanyahu's coming to New York. And I don't want to be in New York because Jews want to conquer New York. So we can't have Netanyahu. It would be the end of his political career and rightly so. But he wouldn't say that because he's not in there.

And there are multiple Republican politicians and leading figures like Laura Lumaer. So this is a problem. The Islamophication of the country. We need to send him. Tommy, Tommy, Tommy, who's a you sitting United States senator.

Put out a picture of Mamdani having an if-dog gathering. Saying the enemy is within the gates. And it's sick. It's horrifying. That is stated.

“I think that it's worth while, at least, for me,”

having been a former Republican to tell you what people say behind the scenes. And what people were saying during this period. And I was a Republican during the 9/11 period. And something that people would say that I'm curious your response to. Is like this idea that I kind of just wanted the Muslim community to be mad or.

Right, like if it was my people, you know, if it was a group of radical gay, former Catholics or whatever, the flu planes into the building. Like, I would be in the same way that Zoran is like really performatively for good reasons. Like, you know, speaking out against anti-Semitism.

I think there's a desire unfair, but real, inside people. For Muslims to be like, you know what I'm really mad at? The fuckers, the kill of all these people. Yeah. And maybe people didn't feel satisfied with that.

Well, what's your response when people offer that cinema? Yeah, I mean, I've been, obviously I've had this discussion for 25 years.

I mean, I would say multiple things we'll be able to have a 10 hours if we get into it.

“But I'd say a couple of things, which is number one,”

the knee-jerk reaction, understandable from Muslims as always,

well, why should I? What has it got to do with me? These are 19 foreign hijackers, 15 Saudis, Emirati Lebanese, Egyptian, 19 guys. I've been trying to lump me in because there's one Lebanese now, maybe?

Okay, I see. There was one Lebanese in there. But 19 guys and came from our allied countries, but why should I be forced to condemn or disown or speak for them? And that was the response from a lot of people.

But even with that response, people still did condemn. Right, that was my position. My position was always, if a terrorist attack happens, my position is, I will condemn it, but I'll condemn it because I'm a human being.

And I want to condemn the killing of innocent human beings. I'm not going to condemn it out of some collective blaming I owe you a condemnation. That I will not do, never do, never have done, never will do. You'll never say I must condemn it because I'm Muslim.

I'm not going to do that. I'll condemn it because I'm a human being. And I think we've seen that over 25 years. No one has asked Jewish people to condemn Israel. I haven't, I've spent three years condemning Israel's genocide in Gaza.

Not once, have I asked a Jewish American say,

“you must condemn Israel, never, never done it, never will.”

And I've never asked Christians to condemn what Christian extremists do.

What Donald Rumsfeld did in the name of Christianity or what Marco Rubio is doing in the name of Christianity today. So that kind of collective stereotyping and blaming was something Muslims resisted. But the reality is, Muslims did condemn 911. There was a famous thing at the time, I remember. I was a straight out of college, I just started a new job in a TV company.

I was a researcher. And one of the things that came up was a, where are the condemnations? I was always the thing, right? Where are the Muslim condemnations? And then a website was created, obviously the internet was not what it is today.

But there was a website created where Muslims like, here's a list. Here's every Imam, scholar, organization around the world who is condemned 911. People forget this on 911 itself or the day after. Yes, I are a fat.

When and gave blood, right, you did a blood drive because Palestinians looked, because a couple of Palestinians had cheered. And then it was like, oh, the Palestinians support 911. He went and did a blood drive for American victims of 911. Iranians went out into the streets of Tehran.

The mayor of Tehran said, we are in solidarity with New York. They went out and held candle lit vigil for a country that wasn't there friend on 911. The Muslim will actually had a lot of solidarity with the US. Intel, the whole world did. And that's one of the great tragedies of 911.

What could have been had George Bush and the neocond actually used that moment to actually bring the world together rather than start this very divisive endless war. So this idea that Muslims were either happy about it or not mad about it. It's just not empirically supported. I was there.

Muslims universally condemned them. By the way, Tim, I just interviewed Talat Hamdani who's son Muhammad Salman Hamdani was an NYPD cadet and EMT who ran into the Trin towers. It was his day off. He was not working there.

He ran in any died on 911. And the New York post said, well, maybe he was a terrorist. And to this day, the 911 memorial will not include her son's name on the list of first response. Even the Mamdanian administration refused to do that.

Because he technically wasn't on duty that day and he wasn't full time gave his life. So Muslims died on 9/11. Muslims condemned 9/11. Muslims continued to mourn 9/11 including the mayor of New York. So a lot of this is misinformation.

I'm sorry to say. Yeah, I agree with that. I think that there is another element of it that is, there's this, I mean, the other element being, there's a big tree element. I think there's a human desire that's like, I want people to match my anger.

I feel it about Trump, right? Why are people as mad as fucking I am? I do sometimes think that's good. Can I one more caveat, which you please?

You don't give people this, the problem is the reaction to tragedies.

Often doesn't give people the space to show the emotion you want them to. I can give you many examples. Let's create these other Charlie Kirk. Yeah. Charlie Kirk was murdered a year ago yesterday.

Yeah.

“Republican immediately went into, you must condemn this.”

The left is violent. We must turn them into a marty et cetera. Now, I happen to be one of those people who don't. I don't like people celebrating death. I don't think it's cool when you go, ah, you know,

laugh on people's death. He was a despised guy. He loathed me. He wanted me deported. But he had a wife and kids.

He was murdered completely unjustly. People say, oh, you're not, why is it left matter about that? We didn't give us a chance to be mad. We immediately started attacking us. You immediately started saying, we must say Charlie Kirk's amazing,

which I'll never say with a horrible human being. But you didn't give us a chance. And on a bigger scale, 9/11 is an interesting example of that, where you start this war on Afghanistan and then a war on Iraq. And in the subsequent years, you're like, well, why aren't we talking about 9/11?

Well, you've killed 10 times as many people in the inter-imperiod. So maybe we're a bit distracted by that. Same with October 7. People say, October 7, old people were already protesting. Straight off, October 7.

Because Israel already killed hundreds of people within days of October 7. October 7 was a bad day to protest. I agree was a bad day to protest. But let me add this, you know, then hundreds of people are killed on October 8 in Gaza. You know this, right?

Okay. But they were mourning. I mean, sure.

Yeah.

“I mean, Israel killed several hundred people.”

I know we don't talk about this, Tim.

But Israel killed several hundred people. Because people like Joe Wolch and others will tell me on social media. You guys were protesting before Israel had even responded. That is a lie. Israel killed hundreds of Palestinians within 24 hours of October the 7th.

I'm just, that's the fact. But even some of the protests, people that was protests were like, we knew they were going to do bad things. So it's just, it's just, it's just, I agree with everyone at every protest. I'm not here to defend every protest. I am though saying, I don't want the erasure of Palestinians being killed instantly after October the 7th.

Instantly. So that Israel waited a few weeks or waited a month and then to revenge. They started killing Palestinians who did nothing. Had nothing to do with October, it's immediately. Yeah, it is tough.

I wrote about this in the 20 year and up at the link in the show. And it's one of these things where it's like, depending on who the speaker is. Like, I just went back and rewrite what I wrote. And I wrote this for the last 20 years. People who had not really lived had to die.

They died because of the fuckers who hijacked the plane.

They died because we made a horrifying tragedy worse by power,

catastrophe upon cluster, fucking the years that followed. Like, that's just true. Like, that's what happened, right? And it's like, when I say that, nobody complains about that.

“But Abdul says that and it's like, why he focused on that, right?”

On this day. But like after 25 years, like that is the story. That's a big part of the story. I mean, as potatoes coverage is being, we've done a lot of coverage of 9/11. We've interviewed family members.

But we also talked about what happened after 9/11. I mean, according to the Brown University's cost of war project, something like 800 to 900,000 people 40 to 50% of them civilians were killed between 2001 and 2023, right? In the wars on terror.

That's an insane, that you can't just say, we're only going to mourn 3,000. We should mourn 3,000 people 9/11. It was a horrific tragedy. We're having a 9/11. It was a worst attack on the United States in my lifetime.

Of course, we should mourn those deaths. And I said, I've interviewed three different family members this week, to talk about their loss. But the idea that we shouldn't shouldn't talk about the Afghans and the Iraqis and the Pakistanis and all those people who died in the aftermath

in wars that Donald Rumsfeld and George Bush and all of those guys unnecessarily started in my view. Of course, we're going to do that. We're human beings. And now we're back at it.

Now we back at it with Donald Trump. Donald Trump. Neocon. War of choice. We back at Iran last night.

Anybody who lived these last 25 years. This is another reason why I support and talk about this. So like when Donald Trump started this stupid war of choice in Iran, almost immediately after I had Bob Kagan on. It was one of the neocons you criticized about the Iraq war.

And we were on the show. And we were discussing. And we're just like, this is stupid. Like, this is not going to achieve any of the results we want. This is going to lead to greater instability in the region.

It didn't have to even be somebody that was opposed. It was just had to be somebody that was awake during the last 25 years. To learn the lessons of the last 25 years to know that this is going to be a disaster. And last night it's getting worse. The hoodies.

Now bomb to Saudi pipeline. They're seizing a port in the red sea. The war that they won't even call war anymore. They're just going to conflict. It seems to be expanding now.

In ways that might have even more disastrous consequences economically loss of life, etc. With classic Trump, because he says, we don't want to call a war. Then he actually calls it a war. And he kind of undermines the messaging. Obviously it's a war.

It's a disaster. It's interesting that you mentioned Kagan and obviously Bill Crystal and others who were very pro or are who have come out against this. But others haven't marked Tison of the coast. There's been a big supporter, live in of Fox, a big supporter.

Dober Whitz, the Foundation, all those neocon guys who support a hero, do support this Ben Shapiro. Netanyahu himself, of course famously pro or art war. And Lindsey Graham, the late Lindsey Graham who loved all of these walls. They didn't learn any lessons at all from any other staff. Essentially, I interviewed General Wesley Clark this week who was opposed to the Iraq war.

But supports this Iran war bizarre. Really weird. I miss that. Yeah, although interestingly, although interestingly, I then did bring up the fact that he's paid been paid to give speeches to the M.E.K. This weird cultish Iranian opposition group.

Now might be part of it, but I would never dare suggest that.

Look, it's a disaster.

“I think it's only going to get worse, Tim.”

The midterms, they made it very clear. The ones to midterms, either way. He's got no limitations, no restrictions left. Whatever hesitation Trump has now is only because he knows he's getting destroyed. His party's getting destroyed.

And he's so I do worry post midterms. He thinks I've got nothing to lose here. And I just go all out. He and I escalate the footages. I think that next month's going to be bad. I think that the Iranians understand the political pressure that he saw.

Yes, obviously. We're seeing what the hooties understand. There are many options that they haven't exercised. Some of us spent 20 years warning about a war against Iran saying this is going to make Iraq look like a walk in the park. Iran is not Iraq.

It is bigger. It is stronger. It has more options. It has much more impact on the global economy. And these guys got hubris date. They saw the attacks on Hamas.

They saw their his below pageal operation. And they thought, look, Iran's went down as well. Iran's weaker than it's ever been. We're stronger than we've ever been. Let's do this now.

And we've you saw the reporting from the Wall Street Journal about Lindsey Graham. You know, telling Donald Trump, you can be this great president if you do this. I'm not one of these people who says it's all Netanyahu.

But he also is a man child who's easily manipulated. And these people did easily manipulated and telling him it would be a short war. It would be over quick. The regime would fall. They even had Barbood Abedidajad on the slide as a possible replace.

But wait, can we just stop for a second to talk about this? The same people who tell us that everything is about anti-Semitism. That you can't support Abdul Al-Saidan's or on Monday because they're anti-Semites.

“That you have to support Israel against Hamas because of anti-Semitism.”

Pitched. Holocaust denial. Mahmud Ahmedidajad as the next president of Iran. Yeah. It's part of the regime change war.

Because they don't really anti-Semitism. If you're on the same side. We'll see. And this is kind of, I'm going to tell you know, don't have full visibility into the damage of this pipeline attack and Saudi. But that pipeline is how Saudi is getting oil around the street right now.

And depending on what we do. Well, there's the other street right there. There's the Bumble Monday which is what the Houthis can control and block.

It's what the Iranians have always threatened.

And some of us again warned about that a while ago. And these guys. I don't know what. Funny thing is now to the really for things. Something you guys at the ball are going to ask us to tell you.

And I was in the independent really to just stay on this. Because you know what's going to happen. At some point in Shala this war will end. And the straight-of-home moves will open. And Donald Trump will say victory.

And we must not let him get away with say that opening the straight that was open on February 27th is a victory. You can't say the goal of the war is something that was not a problem before the war started. And that's what they're doing. They're basically. We might not be aligned at every single issue.

It's a tale in the ball arc. But I can commit to you that we will both do our part. To call it a fake straight-of-home goes post-shifting victory. To now let him get away with that. All right.

I've never noticed when you google something.

Then all of a sudden every ad you see is about it. Or you try to watch something when traveling. And you find out it's just blocked. It's happening to me last year. When we're at our Toronto show,

Shout out to Canada folks. And I wanted to watch. Hello, she Ole Miss. I ended up being a loss. But I was able to watch it.

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That's protonvpn.com/theborek. I want to talk about what to say domestically. This was back to what we were talking about.

“One of these topics were I'm like, why is everybody's mad as me about this?”

And you know, it's not really necessarily a healthy impulse. But I wrote about Marion Thomas Debbie and her family this week. And yeah, glad you did. The Iranian family, her mother-in-law, was the spokesperson for the hostage takers in 1979.

She wasn't born then. Her husband was born there. Her teenage son, she was shit wasn't born then. And they've been in an internment camp now for over five months. Dilly, right?

Well, the mom and the son are at Dilly. The husband is a prison camp 20 minutes away. They've had no rule of law. Like this is that this is on the nose, Japanese internment camp. The only reason they're in there is because they're Iranian and because of their bloodline.

And it's just, I don't, I'm baffled by this. Like I'm baffled that there are not that this isn't a front page New York Times story. I mean, we weren't excited from CBS but that the nightly news is a covering. They're story. And I don't understand.

But their story came out via the nation. She wrote a piece from inside of prison. And her lawyers are fantastic lawyers. I know her lawyers. And it's a, I read that piece.

And I like you. I was furious. Anytime I read about ice or immigration, I just get enraged. Because none of this had to happen. And it's so cruel.

It's so deliberate. It's so vicious. And nothing to do with immigration numbers, borders, safety.

It is just to quote Adam Soah from the first time the cruelty is the point.

And what really enrages me even more because I'm one of these people who just, unfortunately, is cursed with a memory. I wish I had no memory. But I remember everything.

“I remember 10 years of Republicans telling me free speech, free speech, free speech, free speech.”

We are the free speech party. Joe Biden was a tyrant because he said to Twitter, maybe he should take down some disinformation tweets about vaccines in the middle of a once in a century pandemic. Meanwhile, this government comes in. And starts abducting people off the streets.

They pulled that Turkish student. They just grabbed off the street a little small woman in a hijab. 10 guys.

One of the creepiest videos you'll ever watch, where they just grab her.

“She's just walking on the street and master men take her off the street.”

They did this to Mary at school. They did this to the mother and child. We just don't have a video. So I guess you can imagine why do it at school drop off. And Tom Hohman was asked about this recently.

Why are you doing stuff at school bus stops? He lied about it pretending not to know about it. And again, speech.

They're basically going off to anyone.

They think they don't like. They're using this very obscure amendment to the 1952 Immigration Act, which allows Marco Rubio's secretary of state to detain and deport and strip of visas. Anyone he says is a threat to the foreign policy objectives

of the United States. If you take it as a member of Khalil. They've used against a bunch of students for their speech. This family didn't even exercise any speech. It's not like they were doing some kind of major activism.

They were literally minding their own business. It's bloodline. It's the fact that his mother was the former vice president around former spokesman for the hostages. And it's just insane that you would punish family members.

I thought family members are off limits. Roy's told by Republicans. But this is collective punishment. It's a form of Islamophobia. And yeah, it is abusing the powers that these people have.

The idea that, I mean, these are the same people. To me, you know, this better than me. You're in the Republican Party. You're born and raised here. In the 1990s and 2000s, the right was obsessed with black helicopters.

They were obsessed with, don't tread on me. The alien Gonzalez people going in, but must go in. That was me. I was upset about that. Why would I be upset about that?

That was Al Gore and Bill Clinton. And it was their masterman thugs. And now, a Republican administration is doing this to completely harmless people. Who I hear legally, by the way. They hear legally.

They've committed no crimes. And you're sending jack-booted thugs to break them out of cars. And put them in detention centers with no. And they're not even deporting them, right? They're actually not, they're not giving them a chance.

No, it's good luck. They're, I mean, Trump last night, Laura Ingraham asked him his one sentence reason for why people should vote Republican in the midterms. It's like fear of communism.

“And I'm like, what is it that you don't like about communism?”

Take another communism? I don't know. I don't know. Like at least on the streets. Yeah.

A dab. Rule by communism. This is Germany. It's all there. I mean, the guy's ready for a communist state.

Yeah. No, it's, it's amazing. And I think to go back to your question, it is frustrating. I don't want to be sanctimonious or lecturing about this.

You know, whether it's Gaza or whether it's ice, whatever it is, I wish we had more protests. I wish we had more people on the streets. I get why people aren't protesting in the same way they have before. I get the fear.

I get the intimidation. I think it's a mixture of factors. What's your reason why? What do you think it's intimidation? I think it's fatigue on the Gaza issue.

I think it's having done it for two years with the Democratic president got nowhere. What's the point of doing it with the Republican president? I think there's a mixture of factors. I think it's also, you know, Steve Bannon said it best, which is flood the zone with shit.

I as someone who covers Trump, you as someone who covers Trump. I can't keep up with the outreach calendar. What should I be angry about today? Like, what is it? Is it immigration?

Is it the reason corruption in front of our eyes? Is it the cruelty? Is it the racism from the loomers? What, what are we supposed to be mad about? How do we organize to focus on one issue?

You say, "Dilly should be on the front page. I agree." But I can tell you seven other things. It should also be on the front page. They can't all be on the front page.

I don't want to be a New York Times defender.

But the reality is, Donald Trump does enough scandals.

I would just think that the nightly news would one time once want to cover it then. I'll turn it. I hear you. It's just, it's just mystifying.

And the situation is boy. We're torturing this boy. But the mainstream media is bought into the narrative that underlying Trump's abuses and cruelty is a legitimate campaign to deport criminals.

And we have to start from the premise that nothing is legitimate about what Trump is doing. I don't buy this whole.

“You must start from, well, the board was out of control on Biden.”

No, no, no, once you can see that premise that actually what he's doing is driven by any kind of legitimate policy consent. You've lost the argument. Well, this is how they pitched putting these people in the camp. Is that Marco said, well, that we can't have terrorists in the country. They're terrorists.

And this is a 9/11 echo too. And, you know, because of their mother, you told me that you had interviewed the mother once. I see the mother. I see the mother.

That's wild. Well, so my antica, who was vice president of her own. I interviewed when she was vice president. I was at Ron. I was at Algeria in which I did lots of interviews with lots of politicians around the world. And we secured it into the vice president, Ron.

I want to say 2016, 17. And it didn't go so well for her because I tend to do quite tough interviews. And she's not used to that in Iran. Could be shocked to hear. It really do very many accountability interviews on TV there.

She got very upset. I believe she complained to Algeria afterwards. It was very funny because she was sitting in the studio. And I could hear her saying, and then we had an interpreter. She spoke in English with the interview, but she apparently asked her aid.

What is this? What is this interview? It was a mistake to call it interview, but it didn't be before.

So it's during the Trump first term.

No, it's pretty telling. Okay. The Trump was president once. She was vice president. You were interviewing her, asking her hard questions about the proxy.

So they're supporting, et cetera. And these people, their her daughter and their grandson, really living their life. Which tells you everything about that first term versus a second term is where the, you know, how the second term is on steroid versus the first term is that they're doing things

Because there are no guardrails, there are no quote and quote adults in the room. He did get second term vindication after Garland. I mean, unfortunately, Democrats have a lot of things to answer for here. Trump is the way he is because they let him get back into power in the way he got back into power with no accountability.

And I know people get upset and the matter glaces as well. So you blame everything Republicans do under back. Yes, I do blame Merrick Garland for why we're in this situation. 100%. And he came back.

He came back feeling vindicated feeling angry feeling. I'm going to get revenge feeling like there's nothing that can stop me now. And that's why they're doing this. I mean, imagine, if I told you during the campaign that they are just going to round people up for no crimes, hold them indefinitely.

And the Secretary of State is going to do it with the stroke of a pen. It's going to be masked guys doing it. You would have said or not you, but others would have said TDS. Made he's got Trump deranged.

He was always a fascist disease.

He's gone beyond even what I was thinking he was going to say. We're going to do so quickly. I think some people will turn back you.

“I think the last time we were on together was right before the election.”

And we kind of went back and forth a bit on this question of whether. You know, the kind of uncommitted movement and deer born in particular in Michigan and and what they should vote for Kamala. And yes, kind of world of the position just summarized. It was like, you understand why they're upset.

You think that they should vote for Kamala. I was like, I don't even understand why it's a call. That was basically the degree of our disagreement. I'm looking at this now. I do think you look back at that.

And some of the left activists have to be like, God, we are we may be spent a little too much time pissing in the Kamala tent and not enough time reminding people about the threats. I'm almost with you. The pissing on the Kamala tent event.

How you define that? Remember, she was vice president in an active administration that was governing the country in 2024.

Like, you can't just give up accountability because it's an election, right?

So in the sense of holding Biden Harris to account for what was happening in Gaza at that time, I think everyone was a legitimate. I was doing it. But I was trying to walk and shoot them at the same time. I was trying to say Biden's doing bad stuff.

Hey, Biden stopped doing bad stuff. Stop sending weapons to Gaza. But I wasn't glazing Trump. I wasn't suggesting that he's going to be somehow better. Some people on the left did.

And those people should hang their heads in shame forever. I asked Marga people in there. I'm like, I paid her on yesterday. But whether people have regrets in this community. Do you feel that?

Do you ever hear that from like either left types or... Oh, I've had people come up to me all over the place. And say, I voted for Jill Stan. I feel stupid. I've had a lot of people sharing regret.

But at the same time, I've had people say no. I don't have any regret because I've no word vote for a Democrat because of the genocide. And I'm like, but the genocide's still happening. And it's worse in many ways now in terms of what's happening with Gaza and the future of Gaza and Israel and Lebanon and Iran. I mean, look, Dearborn is a town that I know well.

I have many friends there. It's a great place. It got a lot of shit because it became like a kind of shorthand for Arab American opposition to Harrison Biden. But it's a community filled with Lebanese people. And Iranian people.

And their countries have got a lot of shit since Donald Trump became president. And you I had a Yemeni Imam on from Michigan who was one of the people who endorsed Trump on stage in 24. And at the time he said, yeah, he's the peace candidate. And I've invited him back on several times. You'll be shocked here to me.

He has not come back on to talk about interest. He's record is going 18 months into this presidency.

But look, I just want to be clear because your audience is probably an audience of very critical of, of lefties or Arab Americans who are anti-Harris.

That's what we clear. She lost seven states all seven states. You can make it about missions as much as you want. This was much more. I wish I could say Garza was, yeah, I'm of the view that Garza did hurt her and did cost her the election in a way. But it wasn't the only issue. There were many reasons she lost.

You didn't cost her. As in, as in, I think her.

“As in, if you tell me, what are the issues that cost her?”

Why did Harris lose? I would put Garza in the top five reasons of why she lost. Now, I don't know what number one is. We'll never know for sure. There's a mix of things, the timing, whether she was a good candidate, et cetera, et cetera.

But my point is, it clearly hurt her. But it wasn't the only issue and it would be absurd to say she lost, I don't know, Pennsylvania, Arizona, because of Garza. She lost multiple swing states. So, slightly annoying is we when some centrist Democrats and blue maga types would be like,

"Oh, it's all in the fault of uncommitted." By the way, uncommitted came out against Trump, just factually. People trying to tie up like that. I'm going to come out and say, "Do not vote for Donald Trump." They made that very clear.

And most prominent leftists did endorse Harris. Sometimes we talk about left, like, some random on Twitter is not the left. It really annoys me when we brown the left, as like some random person. The left is Bernie Sanders.

The left is AOC. The left now is Zoron Mamdani. The left is Abdul al-Seya now. I mean, they all, but Abdul, endorsed Kamal Harris. Bernie Sanders endorsed Kamal Harris.

AOC endorsed Kamal Harris. She spoke at the convention. A lot of file, that's the same thing.

“I think people wanted a little more fervor.”

People wanted a little more. A little more. And she was so fervent. The people were so fervent. And I see her as great as she was.

She gets shit now for saying they were working tirelessly for ceasefire, but they, of course, were not. And she, she, but I have to defend AOC from people who hate her because of that one speech. She gave it to me. We all, we all have, you know, our burdens to carry.

You know, I'm doing the last five times. I hope you've got to deal with the judge, jailstein people. We're going to get to 100th the end. We're saying that very quickly on Hunter Biden separately. He reminded me.

when the centrist returning over the left,

“but he signed his AOC supported Joe Biden in June.”

He did not call for him to step aside. Correct. No, that is right. So that I'm actually quite a bit. September is world Alzheimer's month,

but most people never check their brain health until something's feeling off or wrong.

I wanted to stop waiting and look at my own data. And I didn't want to take one of those Donald Trump tests, like person man, woman, camera, TV. Can I just pull that straight off the top? Straight off the dome?

I think I got that right. Look at me. Just like Donald Trump. No dementia here. And here's the thing, though.

That isn't really a test. So one thing that you can use is tests from function health. Your focus and mental stamina, leave a data trail on your blood and function tracks it. And they track the core biomarkers that are tied to brain health.

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at the bowlwork 25 for a $25 credit. Here's something I'm a little bit nervous about. About lefties and their American crowd, which I said, they're making the scene now. That's not it.

I don't have my capitalist wing of antifisher. That I was wearing last night. What it's worrying me is that making the same mistake over again, but instead of Donald Trump, it's Tucker Carlson.

Yeah. And potentially JD Vance. You on with some a nosh.

“I think where you said that Tucker as a huge Muslim fan base,”

even people on your own family, people want to know when you're going to go on a show. That seems pretty alarming to me. It feels like just another version of Donald Trump, the peace candidate.

I agree. So I'm into me too. I don't say it in a positive way. And people who tell me they love Tucker. I do try and remind them of who Tucker is.

The problem is Tim, you mean your audience,

my audience, very newsy plugged in audiences. Yeah. Think about normal Americans don't follow the news. They don't follow the stuff. They don't know if I start telling them what Tucker Carlson,

they have no idea. They barely know Tucker Carlson. The people I'm talking about, they never heard of Tucker Carlson, prior to him becoming this pro Palestine.

No, no, no. Now he's in their feed. It's just all clips of Tucker calling out Ted Cruz, calling out Mike Cuckabee. Come on, you're calling out the worst people.

Right. I chaired Tucker calling out Mike Cuckabee and Ted Cruz, as much as I dislike Tucker Carlson, right? Because he's clearly in the right in those exchanges, and they're clearly odious people. So I get it, again,

but the reason, let me just wait one subs to the point on this. Please. Again, I know I'm speaking to you already. And so I just want to, it's not that I'm defending to be right.

I just want to explain what's going through their heads. Through their heads is mainstream media, the mainstream media gave Israel a pass. Democrats won't even call for a cease-fire till two years,

and still won't call for arms and bugger. A Kim Jeffrey still won't go off the A-pack. Chuck Schumer still says his job is to make sure the left is pro Israel. This guy is saying the stuff that liberals are left to sunset. So why wouldn't we support this guy?

He sounds like he's fresh and different. He sounds contrite. By the way, Tucker says it's all I got it wrong. Americans love her. Love her.

Maybe a positive idea. Maybe those people should just like Chris Van Halen. And he's not as good at marijuana. Tim, that's exactly what we've done with that. You don't want to say events when Muslims bring a Tucker and Candace.

And M-T-G and say these people are saying, shouldn't we ally with these people on the right? They're saying the right stuff. I say number one, they're saying the wrong stuff on everything else. They don't like immigrants.

They don't like non-Christians. And number two, there are people on the Democratic side who are saying good stuff. You don't know who they're because Tiktok doesn't give it to you, because they're not sexy.

As Tucker calls to the camera. You know, Dilia Ramirez, who sponsored the block the bombs at Congresswoman from Illinois. People don't know her name. She's a fantastic Latina Congresswoman,

who is pushing for justice both an ice and on Gaza. People don't know her. She's not Tucker Carlson. Let's help the algorithm. Here's the truth about Tucker Carlson.

He's a bigot. And he is an anti-Muslim bigot. That right now, he hates the Jews more.

“And so that's why he's on the side of Muslims.”

But here is Tucker Carlson talking his real views about Muslims. And above the love sponge, little while ago, rock is a crappy place filled with a bunch of, you know, semi-literate. Very monkey.

But I just have zero sympathy for them or their culture. A culture where people who don't use toilet paper or forks. And the way they treat women, you know, I agree with you. Their culture is, but you're in their homeland.

And you're over there as an American who they hate. And they want nothing more than the Americans off of their soil.

So they're not going to play the second way.

I mean, they can just shut the fuck up in a bay. It's my view. It really heavily into Islam. I'm sorry. I just don't mind a pair for you that much.

And I don't care what that sounds like. You can call me a racist. You can call it a fucking one.

So what people will say now, Tim?

I've done, whatever you're saying, I've had these conversations. They will say, but now he's apologised for that. Now he's defending Islam. He called out Donald Trump when Trump mocked Islam. Candace Owens has come out and said,

I was wrong on Islam. I was lied to about Islam. I'm not anti-Muslim. You're right to say that they have different targets right now. And I've said this to many people.

We should make alliances with people who agree with us. You and I are allied against Trump. We don't agree on everything else. But we agree that Trump is existential threat to this country. You and I have always agreed on that.

You can ally with people you disagree with on the things.

The problem is, is that if they are basically saying, OK,

it's Israel now slash Jews slash whatever it is now. And then Muslim data. Yes. Yes. He's a bigot.

He was a Muslim bigot. He was a Muslim bigot. He's a Muslim. He's a Muslim. He's a Muslim.

I didn't multiple segments on Tucker Carlson's racism and bigotry when I was at MSNBC and he was at Fox, right? He he said immigrants make this country dirtier, which J.D. events set at the convention last night. He said horrific things. By the way, I wouldn't even go back to Bubba stuff because he could say those old views. We've all had old views that we disown. What about what he's saying right now? Even now in his new phase, he says stuff like Great Replacement. He said he goes to the UK and says, "Oh, I don't recognize the UK. There's so many Muslims in London. He just did that the other day."

Right? He did it with Pierre's Morgan and Pierre's Morgan had to defend Muslims and defend the UK. So even now he's saying reactionary things. Even now, Candace Owens, I don't think is anti-ISO. Nick Frentis, there's another name who has conned a lot of people because he says things about Israel. Even though he's a card carrying anti-Semar Holocaust and anti-Muslim.

So look, my politics have always been Tim. My enemy's enemy is not necessarily my friend.

I've never bought into that logic. And I think too many people on all sides of the spectrum. This is not just a left wing thing, Tim. This is a centrist thing you're seeing in Michigan. Literally right now, in Michigan, there was Jewish Democrats saying, "I'm going to vote for my rudges." Because I don't know how people will say it. If you don't like Abdul-Said, stay home. But vote for my rudges. That's insane. You're voting for a white supremacist party.

So a lot of people do this. Jews, Muslims, leftist Christians, conservatives.

“They do this whole. My enemy's enemy is my friend. That's not the way you should do politics.”

Have some consistent principles. I'm forward doing coalitions across disagreements. Okay, that's what the market bull works about. My point is that like Tucker Carlson and Candace Owens are bigots and liars. Right? And so they're not actually allies across differences.

Well, that's the key point you're making is more than the bigotry is the trust. My main issue is, I don't know if I trust these people. I mean, M.T.G. has switched. She sang stuff that I like the sound of now. But like I also know M.T.G's record. Can you just twist on a dime? I worry about we live in an age of grift. We live in an age where people on all side of the spectrum

can swap views like this, change them out, and people shouldn't fall for it. And I said earlier in the conversation, I'm cursed with a memory. I remember things. So unlike my friends and the Muslim community or in the left community who just don't know what Tucker was saying one year, two years, three years, or even two weeks ago, I know this stuff. So I need to see more evidence of any kind of substitute.

My worry is like yours. And Hassan Piker and I had this conversation interesting. Hassan is also very skeptical of the Tucker turn. We both agreed that the job that Tucker Carlson is probably doing is to bring people back to a future Republican body under events. When he says that against the Republicans, he goes on bloom with my friend M.T.G. saying he says,

"I'm not a Republican, I'm against the Republican body." And then he goes, "I love J.D. events. You can't be against the Republican body if you support the Republican vice president." That's a contradiction. I talked to Hassan about this off stage last year. A crooked con. And I was just like, and he agreed to this.

I was like, "This is your job." Again, like I said earlier, we all have jobs in this world. And it's like as a prominent influencer on the left. And we talk to people and make you understand what the real Candace and Tucker are. And you know, have as much energy for hating them as for, I don't know, whoever. But for a G-tour as or whatever. Who you're sub-sitive for a moment.

What are we supposed to get in a liar? What a lot. And there's other people like Chank and Anna, young Tex and others, he says, "No, no, we must ally with Tucker." And I don't agree with them. I've said that publicly. But a lot of good faith normies would say is, "Look, we care about the genocide in Gaza.

“I think Basimus, who is a comedian you know. I do stuff with him."”

It's a tale. He went on Candace and I said, "Why do you do this? Why?" And he said, "He's arguing. I'm not saying I agree with him." But this is his argument. He says, "When the house is on fire, you do not turn away a bucket from anyone who's bringing you a bucket of water." Right? And that is the view of some people, which is Gaza's on fire.

She's bringing you a bucket of piss, though. That's what she's bringing you. I wish I had that come back. But the point is, their argument is, and I understand it. No, I don't say I agree with it. But it's like, Gaza is this huge issue.

We've been abandoned by mainstream media and mainstream political leadership. These people are saying something and they have platforms and it's worth it. Now, my argument is, Gaza's my number one issue, because it's a genocide. I've said that very clearly some of them won't issue in the world for me. What's happened to the Palestinians in the last three years.

But it's not the only issue. I'd also care about what's happening at Daily Detention Center. And if you also care about what's happening at Daily Detention Center, then of course you can't ally with MTG or Tucker or Candace. Because they support what's happening at Daily Detention Center.

“And here's the most important thing going back to JD because let's talk about him.”

Because that is Tucker's project is to support JD.

Yeah, or earning himself into the same thing that we ran into in 2024. And JD-Vanity will, yeah, he's trying to do this thing now. It's the same shit Trump did. So you're the vice president. This is the signature foreign policy initiative of this administration.

And so JD leaks to the New York Times yesterday. That's obviously him about how he's said it. And they ran it, and they ran it uncritically with no caveat. They said, JD-Vanity comma, who has been opposed to this wall from the outset. Yes.

Since when, he's never said it.

He's leaked to the New York Times that he's against it. And then last night at his speech, he does his very strange gambit. Where he talks about how his friend Charlie Kirk was always against war, which is not true about the like Chuck or it was a bigger rock horse supporter. And so they don't know what Charlie was saying.

He doesn't know what Charlie was about the way. Yeah, so we don't know what Charlie would think now. But we think he'd probably be against the war. And so if you're like Charlie, he would still vote for us, though, anyway. And so he tries to do this thing where he creates like Charlie Kirk's ghost as a

strong man, as like an imaginary person who'd be against the Iran War, but would still vote for Republicans.

“And like that's how he's trying to weasel out of this.”

And I just don't worry that it's going to work for some people.

Oh, I think you will work for some Republicans and some non-republicans. I do think no JD-Vanity has a big problem in making that case, which is why he needs Tucker Carlson, because JD-Vanity has the charisma of a piece of wood. JD-Vanity's not a communicator. He's deeply unlikable. People have short memories. I know we're all dunking on Tim Waltz these days.

But if you go back and look at the polling from 2024, he was the most unpopular running mate in modern polling of running mates. He was talking about weird cat ladies and pissing people after if you remember. I strongly believe he will not be, I don't do predictions anymore, but I personally have gunned to my head. I don't think he will be the 2020 Republican candidate. I think he will be. So we can talk about it.

Okay, we'll talk again in 2021. The internet's forever. I don't think he'll be the candidate, because I just don't think he's going to be able, I think the Trump presidency is going to be such a car crash, such a pile of shit in 2020. There's no way that he can run without disowning Trump. The candidate runs in 2020. It has to find somewhere to disown Trump and Trump won't allow anyone to do that.

We're the same. He's going to do it. He's going to be like, I was against it.

“I look at the New York Times. I said Trump's dead. He can't do it, right?”

And let's Trump has died at that point. People keep forgetting. That's his biggest risk. People keep forgetting that in 2028 Donald Trump may not be the candidate. I think I'm not ruling out that he tries to stay on, but let's assume he steps aside. The big thing no one talks about is, I'm not seeing a single think piece or analysis if he's a reporter piece about this, which is, okay, it's Rubio's vans.

Where's Donald Trump? You think he's just playing golf quietly, keeping his views to himself? No, he will be tweeting and posting every day about what they've done wrong. And by the way, he'll also be the sitting president during the election campaign. He'll be doing shit every day to undermine the candidate. He doesn't care about anyone but himself. He doesn't care if he fucks them.

If I do, one of them to lose so that he looks like a winner. I agree with this. If JD's an Anthony, it's for this reason. And this is it. And it's not his lack of charisma and the fact that he's has a punchable face or whatever. It's like the fact that he gets on Trump's bed. He gets too far out on the wedge.

I don't think he's not. I don't think he's not the nominee because they're like a group.

“I think he loses a general election because they're like a charisma.”

But I think he's not the nominee because I don't think you can distance yourself from Trump in the way he wants to. It has to be someone who's willing to come out, scorched earth against Trump and there's an audience for it. Further to the right has to be, I'm sorry to say this. It has to be like a friend. It's type. Not that I want that, but strategically, if I look at the Republican body,

that is the only lane I can see is a coming at Trump from the right saying you did do more of what we want from the right. There's no other lane that exists. So JD's going to try to do that subtly. That's tough to do. Here he is last night. I just want to play one clip because we're alive streaming. And I was, I couldn't take very much. And so this line kind of slipped past me.

And so I don't want to let it do that. So we'll cover at this morning. Here's JD last night talking about his concerns about being called a racist. And we were tired of being called racist for noticing that our country was becoming dirtier and poor and less safe and less prosperous. Can I just ask, he did write hillbilly energy, right? Was when he was writing about that community, was there a lot of immigrants there?

I'm pretty sure the whole point of hillbilly energy was that Appalachia was dirty and poor. That was the fucking book video and not because of people from Pakistan or Afghanistan.

I mean, first of all, there's so many things to respond to that. Number one, just a fundamental racism of that statement.

Number two, the fact that his in laws are Indian immigrants. Like, how do they watch that and not go take a shower that they're sun and law? Just through them and their entire community under the bus and their mixed race grandkids under the bus. Just deeply disgusting to say immigrants made this country dirty when your in laws are Indian immigrants who your party hates. As we saw during the whole mosque, H1B debacle a year ago.

And number three, the bakery of it, like, I prefer the real racists, right? I prefer the actual people who are racist and they're poor and like the fake racists, I hate you. Any time I hate, I prefer the true believers on the right. I'm sorry. He interviewed with me in 2016. Before I interviewed Massama Eptica, I interviewed JD Vans in 2016

He's putting Muslim friends in mind at risk.

Sorry, JD, are you talking about yourself then when you say we were accused of being racist, you were accusing Trump of being Hitler. You were telling me on Al Jazeera that we should stand by our Muslim allies and not go into a dark place. And now you have the nerve to pretend that you're part of this amorphous right wing. We were silent when we were trying to be racist. You weren't even trying to be racist whenever we were also trying to be racist.

So like the inconsistency of it, the sheer opportunism of it, and obviously dangerous. It's super, super dangerous. We live in an age where there's a massive amount of political violence. I know the

“right one, you to believe it's the left. But last night Ted Cruz was speaking and I believe people”

were shouting out, shoot him or whatever it is about Mamdanie and Talleriko and Abdul Abosk was attacked in San Diego and May of this year by two neo-Nazis who killed three Muslim worshipers, tried to kill a whole elementary school of Muslim kids. There are consequences, his rhetoric. You mentioned Tucker Carlson. Tucker Carlson, one of the most outrageous things he said at Fox was when he said immigrants went to country dirt. Yeah, at the time it was so controversial that advertisers pulled

out of Fox. They started boycotting Fox. Look at the overton window. Today the vice president of states can say the same line. No one blinks. It's just normal. It's back to our conversation about how Tucker is still using. It was the stalking horse. They're obviously talking. That's a Tucker line. It's a Tucker line. It's a Tucker line. It is using like there. JD Vance has a nerve to the other day say Abdul brought his wife into it. When number one Donald Trump brought Abdul's wife

into it, as Abdul pointed out. And number two, yeah, we are going to bring it. I, as an in I, as a brown skin immigrant in the United States, every time I hit JD Vance being racist, I'm going to remind him that his kids are brown. His wife is a brown and his parent in those immigrants. Yes, I'm fucking going to remind you that. I have nothing to add to that. You had an internet dispute with with Noah Smith this past week. I, you could fill in the gap with multiple names. Yeah,

with. Okay. You mentioned Madaglace. It's both about sometimes get a little hot on the 200. So I can't, I want to kind of separate out. There was some name calling Noah said some gross things. And like that's just not what's going on. I should go live in the Middle East because I love it then. I don't love American Americans. So once me gone, which is very Steven Miller, ask from a centrist funded. Yeah, a bad thing to say. The broader conversation, though,

“and it's something that Noah says that Matt says a lot. I think it's on the worth exploring.”

It's right now, I've been at 47 in the podcast, like 43 minutes of it has been discussing Middle East politics and Islamophobia and anti-Semitism and all this stuff. We don't have an pluralistic society here in America. And, you know, Matt was going at, let's just run a thing to who I just really respect the work he's doing in the West Bank and we've talked

about that. But that Matt just kind of summarized it this way. He says, here's what I think we should

do. I think we should end eight Israel on try to be as uninvolved with this situation as possible. Noah talking to you said that you're serious to be going out of dispute between you and up pro Israel guy on Twitter. These people get up every day and think only about the Middle East. I think about America's daily life in public policy and political movements in world view should revolve around things that are happening in the Middle East. No. Screw the Middle East.

So again, in our full way to put that. But what about the broader conversation of like, man, our politics is way too fucking much about these religious disputes and these territorial disputes in the Middle East. And we should talk about that way last year. Maybe the big lesson on the 25th anniversary of 9/11 as we should do is little as crossable over there. I agree. But I do think that there are folks here that are making that very challenging, by really centering that as like

the main as a main issue in our discourse. Do you mean are you saying people on the left or

“right? I think pro Israel and anti-Israel activists online want our politics to be very much about”

what's happening in Israel and the surrounding Middle East. That's not to pick aside. But just to say kind of like, whoa, Homer into the bushes. Maybe this shouldn't be a rush. So a couple of things. First of all, I don't accept all religious battles, but that's a conversation for another day. The problem with the matte glaciers know this myth position is they don't believe it. They've

never done anything or said anything to affect that view. You can't just turn up on Twitter and

go, oh, I wish we could do Homer into the bushes. No, no, no. We have a 56-year legacy of foreign policy in that area in that part of the world. We've stopped. We're better than now to start homering into the bushes, though. I hear that. Okay, let's go. Well, I'd like to talk to you about the last 25 years. But why not start? What does it look like? Does it mean ending USA to Israel, because I haven't had the glaciers from knowing it's difficult for that? Yes. It doesn't mean ending

Armstrong. It's not just Israel. Let's do the region. Why are we supporting Egypt? We're supporting Egypt? Because we're supporting Israel. Why are we supporting Saudi Arabia? Why are we proper? I'm against all of that. People on the left are against all of that. I'm all for pulling out the middle. I don't, by the way, I'm all for the view that 911 happened because we were in the Middle East because we had bases in Saudi Arabia because we were supporting Israel.

It's set-trades and Egypt and all these places that Zawahiri and Bin Laden came from, right? So, you want to talk about 25th anniversary of 911? We shouldn't have been over there. I think Bin Laden probably would have found a reason to not like us besides the base in Saudi Arabia. We'll have to, we'll have to agree to disagree on that. Do US had no role in the Middle East. I mean, Bin Laden famously put out a video saying, "I'm not attacking Sweden, am I?" And it's, you know,

this was just the idea that the United States Middle East capitalists... And it was, obviously, okay,

the great enemy is we are there, right? And by the way, let's test it out. This is the same thing

with Israel, they go, "If we pull out a gas on the West Bank, how fast will still hate us?" Okay, we'll pull out. And when that happens, then we can all say, "How much has no reason to hate you?" And Palestinians have no reason. But while you're occupying the land, of course, there's going to be violent backlash. Same thing with us, right? Pull out of the Middle East. I'm happy, I don't want any American base in the Middle East. I don't want, you think I want to point 1.6 trillion dollar

Pentagon budget, you think any leftist wants suspending billions of dollars on arms to foreign countries, subsidies on arms, wants bases built, wants fighter jets sent to these countries, no leftist, I know wants that. I'm with Ben Cohen who wants to like halve the size of the

“Pentagon. I was watching some left in it, Rokana was on, I think it was majority report,”

where he was getting screamed at, because he doesn't want to arm the Palestinians.

So I mean, I think it was drop site, it was drop site. It was drop site. But that was more

that was more a debate about the double standards when it comes to a right to self defense. And I'm glad you brought that up. So if you're going to stay out of it, what does that mean? Let's talk this through. What does that mean then? On October 8th morning, what is U.S. policy? What is the U.S. position at that moment? Because of October 8th, 2020. Yeah, October 23rd. No, 2023. Let's take that as a concrete role, where the U.S. decided to throw

its full arms and weight behind Israel's response quote unquote. Now, where does the glacier so no a Smith stand on that? I'd have said, stay out of it. If you're really anti-interventionist, stay out of it. Right? Why are we army? And by the way, everyone complains, why do you talk about Israel all the time? Because we're army Israel. Again, put it to the test. If we stop army and stop funding Israel, then Americans will talk about Israel. And this is was a BB net in Yahoo and Ben Shapiro position,

though. I'd like Israel would have been able to defend themselves without our military it. But they wouldn't have been able to get away with, for example, at the UN without our diplomatic veto. And actually, that's not true. By the way, Tim, Israeli generals on the record saying, we would run out of ammo. We can't even fight Iran on our own. You think Israel would run out of ammo?

“They needed reloading. That's why we bypass Congress twice. But it's an important issue.”

So your problem is with the glacier's past position. I don't believe that they say what they mean. I don't believe they actually support cutting out defense budget, pulling out bases out of the Middle East, stopping funding Egypt and Israel. That's what I support. What do you say in the notion that like cash, American politics, pluralist society, we have a lot. There's a lot of issues in the world that

their activist groups both pro Israel and anti that are like really making this too big in the United States. But it's not both sides. Could we take Michigan as example, Tim? In Michigan, they say we're equivalent on the other side. There's just not. There's just zero comparison. So if you want to say why did the Michigan race become about Israel? Where Haley Stevens taking money from a massive pro Israel group to fund her campaign, dot money from Republicans, by the way,

who fund APEC. That makes it an issue. If you don't put lots of APEC money into a race, maybe we want to talk about it. I mean, you said earlier, the guys have written this, I think that there are a lot of activists and there are a lot of left me who folks at that as the main issue. That's the animating issue. People are allowed to. That's allowed. I can't just be clear when I said that. People are going to talk about money. People are going to clip it out of

context. When I say causes, I mean, the genocide has been happening now. I don't mean the Middle East is my number one. When I go to vote, I don't go to vote based on what's happening in Egypt or whatever. I just want to be clear about that. I talk about specifically the last two and a half years of three years of genocide. Pre-23, the Middle East was also in issue. We also supported Israel, but it wasn't the top issue for most people. It was an issue that I still cared about,

but it wasn't my top issue. In Donald Trump's first term, Middle East was not my top issue.

Donald Trump doing shit here in home was my top issue. But in now, Middle East is still my top issue because it's a genocide. You mean, I agree with that others may not agree with that. But if you think it's a genocide, obviously you're going to feel strongly about it. For a lot of people in the 80s, a part of South Africa was their top issue. That was a huge cause for the liberals across the West in the 1980s. You're going to have these big moral causes that people care about.

But if you're talking about American politics, I'm talking about the politics. American politics is going to be a Democratic primary, where it's a Democratic primary, where it's a money out of history. Take them. Take them. Here's my test. I put my hand out. I can't speak for other people. If you take pro-Israel money out of American politics, if you take pro-Israel litmus test out of America, where every politician has to declare their love for Israel,

“Mundani was asked in a debate. Will you go to Israel first? No, he's a mayor. Why?”

If you get American policy, a basis out of the Middle East, if you get American money out of Israel, you do. And then I still go on and on about Israel, then you can attack me and I'll say, yes, I'm not going to. But until you do that, don't come and lecture me about knowing, oh, we should stay. Why do you only talk about this stuff? We talk about it because we're involved in multiple wars. I think we're bombing. I think that might be where things are going. And so I guess my request would be if that's

where things go, particularly the Democratic Party, I'd like you to take the dubious, because I do, I personally have to out a lot of people. I'm a little bit too bitching. I'm a little bit extra. Can I get one of your men? Can I give you one example from the UK right now? Ed Millivan, who is the Foreign Secretary of the UK, a book about it many years ago. He was a leader. Now he's the Foreign Secretary. He's Jewish. He just announced a settlement ban on goods, right? Sanktions on settlements. Huge controversy

in the UK. A lot of pros or groups lose their minds, given the public support it. A lot of people

win. Israel's could have it. Stop. Support us if Israel pissed off. The British government has never

“done anything like this before. So yes, I say to my fellow lesties, please take the wins. Wherever”

we find them, there aren't many of them, but take them. We went long and I don't want to do Hunter. I don't have the spirit for it, but I just, you did speak to them. Well, let's just, let's just just for kicks. He's got a crypto. Let's watch. Hey everyone, 100 years. It's been a long, couple days, but I'm used to long days. I want to make one thing clear. Is it? This is my fucking token. I've been working on this thing for six months straight. And I have gone...

In between interviews. In deep, in terms of cryptocurrency, and understanding exactly what I was

getting into. And what I was getting into was trying to do something just markedly different than

what has been offered up to the community in the past two years. That's something that actually could help build community and do something that's worthwhile. We're building community of the shit coin. What did you make of your kind of, he won't, he won't come on here. He doesn't, he's mad at me. What would you make of your kind of... It's family maybe mad at me now. He did a great interview. I thought he took my questions. He answered them on Gaza. He was very honest and raw.

But, you know, I wondered, I asked him at the beginning. Why are you doing all these

“interviews? You do one every day. You've done like 40 interviews before I got to you. And I think”

this is the reason why. I think we saw he was building up to something. And that was his community. A community. If you're going to slag off the Trump family for all this stuff, it's just insane that you would come out with. I know he's got his reasoning and he's got his justification, but it's insane. Come on, you can't come out with laptop as you're coin after doing this media tour. It's just... I said it earlier about, like, grift and people's positions. People don't

trust people who are doing these kind of U-turns and change in views and a lot of people, but a lot of people love Hunter by now because he's been criticizing Gaza to genocide. I see people on the left like him now. Again, I want to reserve judgment and see, have these people really changed, and this is not helping. It's not helping. No. It ain't. I'm not sold. I'm not buying a time share from Hunter Biden. I'm not buying anything from Hunter Biden. I can't. I would recommend that

“everybody not do that or from his friend Tucker Carlson. I think the best thing to do is probably”

just to kind of walk away from both of their content activations. But I'm going to say, last thing... Sorry to be of the beforeing, last year before I go. What I say and others say, who are smart about this, I think, is it's bad, it's bad that Tucker Carlson is getting popular in some parts of the left and some parts of the world. But again, it's an indictment of the Democrats and liberals.

How did you leave a lane open? How did you leave an anti-war critical of Israel lane open for

Candace Owens and M-T-G and Tucker today? How about hell? Do Democrats still have leaders who are still saying what is fine to take a pat money? Why is it that we need these freaks to be condemning what Israel is doing because too many Democrats just stay silent. I agree with this, but this is a through line for a whole conversation. And I appreciate the, I wanted to end with that because it's kind of, I kind of feel like, what was the thing you said that early internet where they created a

list of the Muslim's second devs at 11? I kind of want to create a list of all the Democrats that have done the right thing. And it's just, and people are still mad because it's like they're not giving them the energy that they want. And I just, and so it's like, and that's a human nature, but you know, so maybe more energy on it. Anyway, maybe end an agreement. I appreciate you very much, brother. Thank you for coming on. Thank you. If I'm dead to do it. And everybody else, you can say that.

I can't say that. It's not the same thing in the country. That is an imbalance. And it is said day for our country. Everybody will be back one day with Bill Christoll. I run a place to y'all, Ben. Walk with you too. Too many boys, too small a time. Feels like a mower is wandering the ground. You call me a, I let it ring. Or break a new, only one thing. God, me again. It's the end of the world. Done with this year a mystery can be missing songs for you too slow to hate. Summer came late.

Fires on the west side. I'm rolling the waves. Let's miss pain. Catch it before it's almost gone. Try to pretend it's the end of the world. Some kiss me to death. There's nothing left to decide. Nothing to prove. Nothing to do with the only tone. I don't tell you the name. We'll find our mistakes and destroy. Do me the end of the world.

associate producer Ansley Skipper, and with video editing by Dante de Chico and audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.