Nicolle Wallace: The Sore Loser Is Trying to Ruin Our Elections

We got to show obviously a great guest, the best person. I could think of.

Here's a plan next two weeks.

“We're going to have summer Fridays, so no show on Friday.”

You'll get four board podcasts each week. We have different guest hosts, all your board, friends, Sam Sarah, JVL, Bill, some surprise guests. It's going to be great. Show my come out a little bit different time-wise a little earlier. You know how it is. And these guys, they're all busy and they're all doing this for me.

It's a favor, working extra time. So if you could do me a favor and, you know, be nice to them. Send them positive feedback in the comments. Let them know you appreciate them. I'll be grateful to them.

So I will see you guys in two weeks. Up next, Nicole Loves. [Music] Hello, welcome to the Bullard Podcast. I'm your host to Miller.

It is the last pod before you're rid of me for two weeks. So I had to bring in a favor, friend.

She's the host of the best people podcast.

She's host of Deadline White House every Monday through Friday at 4 p.m. on MSNow. It's Nicole Loves, say Nicole. Hi, friend. Where are you going? I am going to Germany and then France and then Mexico. So we're coming to the floor.

I'm coming to the floor. That's amazing. Yeah, so we're going to do gay doubts and you're up and then family at the beach. I love it so much. Yeah, I was like last year I took one week off.

What's your vacation schedule? Oh, this is so bad. So I've taken two days off to go to a baseball tournament. And I have all this like vacation guilt. It should take a couple weeks.

You have a guilt to go away. I have like a vacation guilt. Yeah, I've got to get over it. It's a me problem. There's not any reason.

I should plan a vacation. You're inspiring me. You do have to get over it. Here's why I'm doing two weeks this year. It's two reasons.

Last year, one week to go CLA. This is my friends. And I came back. And I was like the worst week in my life. Yeah, re-entry sprue at all.

I was like, you know, I feel like re-entry will be better. If at the end of the vacation, I do another bonus time with family. With just the family. Because I thought by the end of that, I'll be like, you know, put work sounds fine.

Yeah, yeah. Two weeks is a good stretch. I feel like the older you get the longer it takes to be on vacation.

“So the longer you have to stay on vacation.”

Yeah. Yeah. The other thing is I just. And this kind of ties to our topics. The next two years are going to be insane.

Yeah. And we have a dementia. We've said that for 11 years. I know. I don't see how I can take two weeks next year.

I knew we were going to have literally two presidential primaries. And a dementia rental to auto crap trying to hold on to power. I mean, I'm afraid to leave the, you know, in those circumstances, you know, you want to make sure your passport's current and what exactly. Exactly.

I know, I had the lawyers that tell me to keep the phone off. It's fine. I don't know. The cash is cash is otherwise. Right.

I don't think that's for no whiskey bottles for us. Custom. We're pretty taping those Trump speeches a couple hours.

But as you said in the green room, it's, it's always old crazy with him.

It's no new crazy. So I hope we can speak about it as if we've seen it. Here's what we know so far. When asked by our reporters said that the report asked if it would concern election machines and integrity Trump said it would concern that subject.

Well, the couple other things really big news. Our country has to shape up.

“That's what we're going to be talking about.”

It doesn't get bigger without free and fair elections. You don't have a country. There's some reporting that he's going to mention. And China interference trying to get voter rolls that something's been reported for years. Anyway, I don't know.

Are you going to be watching? Do you have your popcorn ready? No, so here's my issue with this. I can't get through the gate of the total fuck you to his supporters. Because what he's going to say is in President Barack Obama was president.

The election was free and fair. And I won. When President Joe Biden was president, the election was free and fair. And I won. When I was in charge, I fucked it up so badly that I lost.

It's like an epic, epic, epic mind fuck to his own base. He's going to make his base swallow. This absolute shit sandwich of like I'm the only one that can fuck it up. I mean, what is he going to hire John Brennan tonight? Yeah.

Bring in some people that know how to do with the business. It's the most cynical thing I think I've seen him do. He's going to ask his base to accept. He's going to ask Brian Kilmeat to go on TV tomorrow morning. An anchor newscast for Brian Kilmeat is going to have to tell the morning,

you know, MAGA viewers that Obama and Biden ran free and fair elections with election integrity and Trump didn't. And you know, who was running national intelligence. Rick Ronaldo may have 2020 and then John Rackliff.

I mean, his, his dudes were in charge of election integrity.

And he's going to make his base swallow. This most brazen pile of absolute bullshit lies that of the last three presidential elections. He's the only one that can protect us from China or Iran or whoever he's going to say Hacked him.

I think that's a very important frame. I'm glad you said that because one thing that you can do, you know, I feel like sometimes you end up talking past magas. We all do want to like they're talking in their delusions. And you're trying to fact check them.

And it's like they're unfact checkable, you know, they've been living 10 years just kind of stewing in lies and an alternate reality. And so like the fact checking is a fool's error. Right. Sometimes it better.

It's like crime statistics.

Like when they when they're all June depot about the cities,

and you're like, actually, they're crime. And it's like they're too stewed in like terror about American cities. And so it's, but. You're doing, you're taking a face. You're saying, okay, fine.

All right, sure. You're right. Great. The election was stolen. Really?

Who did why? Why isn't Trump figured it out by now? He was the only one that couldn't secure the elections. He was the only one that couldn't. And sure that he had a free opportunity at the ballot place.

Who did he. Who who was in charge of that? Who did he. He did this is a blackmail stop with him. It's got a poor booker in the Todd Blanchering when he was asking Todd Blanchers.

So he went to be with the only Mac. So what? What'd you get out of that? Right. Like do you have any leads?

Right. Like how was that for you? Right. Like it's one thing to not be accountable to the truth. And I feel like as extra public ends, like I am rooting for Democratic candidates because it's the only party that houses reality in the truth and supports democracy.

But in terms of like not having a dog in the fight. Like what is the limit for the absolute, you know, toxic makes you look so stupid that you're actually going to believe that the only election that was stolen from Donald Trump, was the one that he ran. Like, and if this isn't it, then what is it?

Is what I want to know. Like if he can, if he can convince him of this, that he ran three times and the only one that was stolen from him was the one he was in charge of,

“then I think we're just in a different timeline that I think even you and I”

in our sort of sometimes grim outlook think we are. You're cussing a lot. This story is so triggering. I, I called Von Hill here and apologized after I had him on like this story to me because it may be on. You cussed in front of a sweet.

No, I didn't swear, but I, but I was so to me, this is, this is it, right? Like to me, if he can make his base swallow, a narrative rooted in the fact that only he presided over an election that was fraudulent, then I think he can make them believe anything. You know, I wrote this newsletter yesterday before break about like not getting numb.

And I was focused on the state violence because it's the thing that makes me the most obsessed. And then I get, I get myself more and more upset when other people aren't as upset as I feel like they should be, you know, about it. And, you know, Sarah and I were talking about this in the next level and Sarah is apoplectic about Todd Blanch. So I, she is like doing the same rant, you're just doing about the election about Todd Blanch.

It's like, how can we have a system? If the president's personal lawyer is running the department of justice, if it's a total hat. Yeah, it's the person that did this and that, you can go listen to her and I need to redo it. And it's like, this is the kind of flooding the zone with the shit thing of being a fan of, but I do,

“I think this is an important like way to combat it because we're all, you know,”

you're trying to think about how to navigate all this and maybe the right thing to do is just for people to grab on the things that are in rate to sound the most and be the dog with the bone on that thing. Yeah. Yeah. You know, rather than, like, a little bit just to be a doggy daycare together with all of our little bones,

you know? Did we live in the plane? Like, I think that's the-- Because this one for me is like, I'm with you. Everything you said is right.

I'm with you. And we have so much room in my butt for, like, anguish. I remember when I was on with you last time, we talked about the,

basically, the kidnappings and taking men who hadn't been given their due process rights to

see caught. And I remember Fox News, like, lost their mind that I said that those stories, I was guided by those stories. And it's like, I think at the time, I could still be sort of startled by, by an attack from them. But like, I guess the question is, why aren't you? Like, why are people okay with anyone depriving anyone of their due process rights?

“Especially before they take them out of the country and lock them up in a terrorist prison?”

That's when I realized into that to see if there's anything. Because it was about a year ago, exactly. And I was like, I wonder how I'm thinking of things different. And not as much as I would have thought, actually, you know, the Trump story is rather similar. But one thing that just related to that is you were talking,

we had a little jab talk at the end, and we were talking about, you know, meeting the Cuban,

Yeah. And as had John Blitzer on this week, and it's like, the Cuban X-pad.

“It's like the Cuban Awards are being treated worse than any of them.”

I mean, I guess not worse than the Haitians are then as well.

And so maybe they're third on the list right now.

What is happening when they're being sent to a third country, Mexico where they're not where they're legal there and they're not allowed to work. And they're just dumped on the street, like it's breaking bad movie. And, you know, they just dump them in the middle of the desert. And it's like, good luck.

This is what we're doing to people fly to communism in the country. It's like, to your point about why aren't you mad or at Fox. It's like what the Secretary of State is a Cuban, and his family came from Cuba. And it's like, Fox, this was the big issue over that.

Right? Right. The weather would be wet foot dry foot like this. Right. If there was one good group of immigrants, it was this. And all of them are saying nothing.

I would imagine it's not even on Fox. That's that the Cuban's are getting dropped to Mexico. They don't even know. That's why I don't even know. Right.

And the thing about the election lies for me is, if you follow the threat, and I know we're post-truth, I know we're post-fact. I know that it's quaint to ask for consistency. But Fox is going to have to cover the speech somehow.

And are they going to ask dominion for their money back? Oh. So, like, like, Fox is a part of the story. A big part of the story.

See, only network that paid nearly a billion dollars.

And then $800 million. Because they're internal communications proved that they knew they were knowingly lying about election fraud. So, were they lying about knowing they were lying? Were they deceived?

Or, I mean, to re-engineer a lie. That even Donald Trump, according to Sir Matthews, testified that Donald Trump said to her, "I can't believe I lost to this fucking guy to a Biden." So, like, even Trump thought he lost.

Mark Milley testified that he said, "Well, let the next guy deal with this. He's president." I mean, Trump believed that he lost.

“And that's why he was charged openly by Jax Smith, right?”

For part of it was the fraud. Part of it was obstructing an official proceeding. If they found people corrupt enough to go out and like re-engineer something that Trump knew not to be true at the time, then I just think we're in a new place.

The brain can play tricks. You know, you can convince yourself a lot of things.

Sir Ashnellization is very powerful.

Compartmentalization is powerful. You can tell yourself a story. Like, in this one, it's like, part of the story they've been telling themselves, recently, is that we are obsessed with this. You know, any time January six comes up,

any time somebody brings up January six. So, like, "Well, could you guys just move on from that?" Like, this is not a big deal anymore. Like, "You guys are, you know, you guys have range met over this."

And so, that was like their way out of this. I don't have to deal with this because like, this is old news. Now, like, we're moving on. And Trump's like, "No, you need to eat this again. You need to go back into the fantasy world

and tell yourself some story that lets you get to the place where they're the same lies that you pay to $787 million dollar judgment on. Are now lies that you have to, like, either repeat or just even pretend to think

might have some legitimacy. Yeah, and to me, that's the same people, right? I mean, John Rackliffe. I remember, I think it was,

I was driving down to the city. So it was like Saturday because COVID still. So Saturday or Sunday night before the election. And Rackliffe had a press conference and put something out talking about

election interference. So it wasn't like he wasn't consuming the stream of intel, in which whatever tonight's revelations are rooted in, wouldn't have been sourced as well. It's not even about us.

It's about making these sycophantic anchors at Fox News, feed something that even they know, even they've communicated amongst themselves as we know from that lawsuit, to be untrue to their viewers.

“I think that's just, it's not that it's a new low,”

because there's nothing lower than the dehumanization around the ice stuff. I agree with you. That's the most heinous sort of bucket of conduct. There's probably nothing more dangerous

in the weaponization of DOJ. So I agree with Sarah, but there's nothing more cynical. There's no sort of abuse of the affection of their base like the election rise.

It's not just the Fox guys, it's the centers. I got a kick out of this. I was reading Politico this morning. I'm going to this is in the preview to the speech. Trump administration ally,

anonymous, granted an anonymity if I Politico to say this. The people I talked to are scared shitless. And they're scared and shitless about what is the ad to the text?

What is the ad, Leb? As John Kennedy, a senator. I wish he'd talk about the economy. Yeah. How do you get up out of bed

in the morning? If you're these people as far to bed. You know, it's like, I would have more respects for John Kennedy for this anonymous official to be like, "I'm curious what

the president is on cover." Like at least it's like you're in your

And what he missed. Like how did he miss it?

This was all he was like Bill Park

was on CNN before the 2020 election.

“And announces that they will be investigating”

in the next election. Like John Durham went in and he spent eight hours with John Brennan. I mean, you've interviewed John Brennan and been on with him.

Like they have kicked all the tires around all the intel, around everything relating to the 20, 60 of the 2020 election. And they couldn't find anything in 2020

that would have changed the outcome. So there's no read that isn't one totally fabricated. And two, it's just the most cynical thing you can do to your own voters.

Like it's just such a a mind-fuck heading into mid-terms where what he should do is what Kennedy said. Talk about the economy and try to turn his base of voters out.

I don't know over what, I guess he could assign the housing bill or, you know, I don't know what still works. I don't know what still gets them excited. But I hope this isn't it.

You could at least pretend to have an idea. But that is like the craziest part. And we talked about this bunch. The show was just like that's to me. The craziest part about the economic

messaging and the lack of it. And we want things to be like, hey, you know, to do the old Trumpstick. Like, hey, it's going to be the best. It's going to be the biggest.

We've got this plan. It's the, you know, cheap prices for all plan. And, you know, and it obviously bunk and BS and it's probably just a handout just for friends.

Like, at least you would have that. He doesn't even have that. It's like, all he's capable of talking about is the 20 election or stealing the next election or the ballroom or the

ballroom or the ballroom or the ballroom. Yeah, come on out. I think I've talked about this on the show. Like, I read it about theorem and like didn't spend that much time talking about it.

Like, to the contractor. And he's like literally talking to the country about the intricate details of a project very much in the planning phases. Like, it is the weirdest fixation that I've seen him have in 10 years of covering him almost every day.

I think everybody who lists this podcast is going to not be surprised you hear that I'm not particularly organized. I think that's something things all the time. Nobody goes to the find my iPhone thing on their computer.

Where they wear it forces their iPhone to beep more than I do. I'm pretty sure I go to that site more than anybody on planet earth. I mean, I probably have a hundred of these earbuds.

And in addition to the phone and the headphones sometimes I'm also misplaced in my wallet. I don't know what I left it. I don't know what it is right now actually. And if you're somebody like me

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Just head to Ridge.com and use code the bowlwork and you're all set. After you purchase, I'll ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show until we sent you. You had Jackson Smith on.

Thanks a couple of weeks for you now. Talking about all this is really good. And obviously, I was jealous. He's so good.

“I was appropriate that I think he's on the show”

because of what we're just talking about. I mean, like your show, probably more than any, is just so consistent and focused on this, like fundamental democracy issue that he was at the center of. And I'm just wondering if what you made of his of that combo.

So they called me an ask me to do it the Friday before the 4th of July. And I said, I can't do it. And I didn't call my boss when I didn't call my AP.

And I was like, oh my god, I may have just lost Jackson's first interview.

I'm going to get fired. But then lucky for me, they called me back and said that he could do Thursday. So it was a Thursday before the 4th. It's interesting. He wanted that. He started the interview with that.

It's interesting. He said that he was like he wanted to do it around the 4th of July. Yeah. He felt like that was important. He's so substantive. And so I think there was something about the feeling

and the meaning of the 4th of July that like meant something to him. And it means it means to me to everybody. But I think to him, it was like a good time to start talking. He hadn't done any interviews yet. And I think he, I think he did.

John Stewart's podcast with Brian Driscoll, the fired top FBI official. He is, to me, different from the way you and I come at these things. In that, you know, I can prattle off like every trespass and every,

Like I have this like photographic memory. I've just pulled out quotes from the January 6th committee. Oh, I know the footnotes of Mueller volume too. Like, we're Trump asked on again to write a fake memo lying about a press story. Not being true and it was really true.

“Like, I just, I've covered the story in a way that I think because I didn't come out of television.”

Like, I really tried to like, learn the Trump stories.

Like the first big story that covered it.

And my show started the day that Colmy was fired. So I, I started my show with Jack Smith saying that the show more than anything else has been about. The destruction of the role of law. And I guess two things. Like one Trump is so successful in making people like me feel like we have Trump duringagement syndrome.

Like what's wrong with us? Just get on board. The country's hot. You know, no. Like we are correct in our concerns about the destruction of the role of law.

And now there's not really any debate. Like Todd Blanch is doing it in full view of everybody. So I guess like one, I was struck by the fact that someone on the inside agree with that assessment that it's really bad. It's really bad.

The department is being hollowed out.

Having worked in the government after 9/11 like that's really scary to me. That department sort of along with the CIA like stands on the line between us and everything that threatens us. But the other thing is that there are people thinking about what comes next. And I don't allow myself to do that. Like I feel like like sometimes when I read novels, if they're causing me stress, I'll go and read the end to see.

Okay, okay, okay, okay, I'll keep reading. But I don't let my film. Yeah, yeah, because my nervous system is shot. Like nine years of covering Trump. I don't, like I like things like the bear.

And I like, like I really can't watch a lot of like super suspenseful things that I'll caught. You know, like core movies used to be like for that rush. I just, I'm reading something like I read a lot of thrillers. And if I'm reading a thriller and it's, and I'm up really, really late by myself. I'll have to go back to make sure that, you know, the hero lives.

But I don't let myself think forward in the Trump story. Like I try to stay right wherever we are with whatever is happening. Because to your earlier point, there's, there's already too much, right? There's so much. Right.

He's thinking a lot about the other side. And so when I cover like, why do people stay? Why would you stay in the part of cash pretels corrupt.

“Yeah, the reason people who say you should stay as long as you can is because I think there's a belief that when you go to put it back together,”

when you go to put democracy back together, you need some people who were sort of in their holding the line from inside. And so I was really, it's just not part of it that I think about a lot. Because I've been out of the government for so long. The people still got to do the job. Yeah.

And when I said, like, they just stay until there's a friction point with top land. And he said, absolutely. I mean, you don't betray your, your oath. You don't, you don't, you're not part of the destruction of the world up. But you stay until you have that friction point with this new regime. It was sort of a new way to think about it.

And I guess for people like us, I mean, it's a little more gray. It's not black and white. If you're inside and you're working on something that is so far untouched. If you're working on cyber or you're working on child trafficking, you know, to the degree that they even still do those things.

I mean, I don't know. He made an argument that I hadn't really heard persuasively before about why you stay as long as you can. The thing that struck me is he, I mean, obviously, so poised and serious, such a real person compared to the clowns we have in there. But, you just kind of matter of fact about how, yeah, and the president wants to put me in jail, so I had to get a lawyer.

And then the president went after the law firm and said this was kind of in the context of you asking him, like, why more people aren't speaking out.

“And I think you're single about Chris Ray, and he's just like, look, this is what happens.”

Like, if you speak out, it isn't, they just come for you. You know, they come for Jim Cummie's daughter. They come for the people you hire to protect yourself, right? So you have that obligation question. I would have persuaded you or by that answer, because it's a genuine question because I vacillate.

I feel like maybe sometimes those those who are talkers are like more talking would be the would help. And I think that's true, in some cases, and maybe in other cases, I don't know. It's a little more gray, as you said. I think there are zero excuse that any leader whose people are being persecuted and prosecuted and investigated. Stay silent.

He did not persuade me of any argument for Merrick Garland, Lee Semonico, Christopher Raid, to stay quiet. None. There's none. Because the agent said it, well, Geraldine, I think it's his name, who was fired while his wife was dying of cancer. Didn't, you know, this far as we know, didn't beg, go work on the cases for which he was fired for being a part of.

They were cases that were signed to him.

I mean, I've never been an FBI agent, but I imagine it isn't like circle time where they go around and they say who once read,

who once blew, who once, you like, I imagine you get assigned cases based on expertise experience and location.

I'm kind of like, what does a day look like for these people?

This shows my obsession. So I'm like, what is John Kelly doing today? Sometimes I wonder. It's like, what is that? It's not like they can't be busy.

You know, let's see. Well, see the military guys that I have in a different, in a different way. Yeah, sure. I agree to him instead of man as a particular because he left the military to the chief of staff. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I put the DOJ and the FBI people in the category do for the harshest criticism for their silence,

“because what, like, Lisa Monaco who was confirmed in a bipartisan manner is staying quiet because what?”

Because she ran the Department of Justice, but she's not responsible for the prosecutors who've been fired, brutally and abruptly and unjustly. I mean, why not speak out and defend Lizzoir or Brendan Blue or all of Jackson's prosecutors? Like, she was their boss. Merrick Garland, I met with him before he left and was so emotional and heartfelt about the men and women of the Justice Department.

He's never shown that publicly.

Why not? And some of them might say it wouldn't help. It might help the people who've been fired, who're being investigated. It might help them find lawyers if Merrick Garland were out vouching for their character. And I guess my thing is you don't know what would help.

I mean, I remember when I talking after Trump won and we sort of looked at each other like, Oh my god, I don't get to do this every day because that's our job. And you just put one foot in front of the other and I don't know if it helps. But I know that if being afraid of what someone was going to do or say, got into my head, I couldn't do my job.

And so I don't know what leader of any institution thinks that leaving their people on the battlefield to be investigated, prosecuted, persecuted, smeared in the line. It's just, it's an unprecedented abdication of leadership role. Yeah. I think that's right.

I mean, I don't know. You could maybe sell me their strategic things. Have you mind the scenes? There's a strategic time to reach out now. What happened to me?

Like you, that you and I don't know about. Yeah, no, no. I'm not happening. That's what I'm saying now. I just don't think that's happening.

And the right thing strikes me as much too. Because it also goes to like this core narrative of this administration.

“That I key as uniquely capable of speaking to.”

Right. Like they care about the rule of law on the cops and they're the back of the blue guys. And they're the ones that want to keep you safe for criminals. And it's like, well, no, actually. Like, I, you know, I understand that if you are the person on the Iran portfolio with the FBI,

that got assigned to the Marulaga documents case, because Trump had Iran war plans there. Like at your point, they didn't pick that case. Like they were there because Donald Trump had the fucking Iran war plans. It is bathroom. You know, next to the coup deana Marulaga on the pullback.

Like that's where the, that's where the pull plans were. And so they had to get pulled in. They got fired. Obviously, I get that they might not want to speak out. I don't, you know, I don't know any of these people.

But they might, they have to get jobs and out of families. Like Chris Ray can talk about how important they are, though. Could have been his body, I would think. Or that they didn't do anything wrong. Yeah.

Like the problem is that you and I see them as, you know, career public servants.

They've been pickled in ten years of bullshit lies about the FBI. Right. The mega base is stood in ten years of bullshit lies about the FBI. So these people that have been fired aren't just people who are fired for touching the Trump cases. The, the mega base finds them to be corrupt, rogue, criminal.

They've been smeared in the line. So, so forget about whether or not it makes a difference in terms of whether they keep their jobs. Every single person about the chain of command of all the fired FBI agents and prosecutors. Those every single person has been fired by Trump, Blanche, and Patel. Their reputations back.

That is what they are owed. I don't think they could get them their jobs back. I'm not sure they could even get them lawyers or law firms to represent them. But the one thing they could do with the 67% of Americans who disapprove of Donald Trump is get them their reputations back. And that they refuse to do that is, I think, one of the biggest discourses that we cover in real time.

I think there's just got Kyle Seraphine, you know, the name of it all. He's, I only know him because it will summer. God bless will summer and the falsified newsletter. He's just like, he had a beef with cash. He's like this mega FBI guy gets fired. He has to be like, and so I follow him on social media now.

And his social media, if Kyle's watching, God love you. But like some of those stuffy posts is insane. You know, I mean, like he is mega. Okay, like he is conservative. And he's, and he's down with cash.

No, but no, but when this is what I'm going to say, when he talks about cash, he sounds like us.

“And this is kind of like, like, you need to be conservative about the incentives.”

Like, like, or in the books, like anytime, or anybody that quits.

Right. And so it's like, if Kyle Seraphine who's like this rank and file, like, guy who got the wrong way with, with cash can pop off and talk about all the corrupt things that he's doing and all the ways he's mismanaging. If guy in the ways making it less safe, then surely, you know, the rest of them can. I guess that was my point. Well, so I said this, you know, we've been covering Trump for 10 years, right?

At least longer it feels like Rachel City yesterday, 47 years. So I've covered every book that's come out.

“And you have to be cognizant of stuff right on the right in the left.”

There has never been a book or a revelation or an article.

Or an interview that's come out that reveals anything positive about any of these people, right? Like, like once they are free to talk, they say worst things in you and I do. Jady Vans Mitch McConnell and John Kelly have said much worse things about Donald Trump than I ever have. They call him despicable. They call him damage. They call him just things that I wouldn't know because I don't see him up close. They're credible, but there's never been an occasion where someone who is up close with Trump leaves and says anything more positive.

Then when they said when they were working for him, it's always the other direction. Okay, you mentioned Mitch. Let's do the Lindsay and Mitch stuff. How have you been thinking about the Mitch story? Like what's happening with that? You know, like I'm not going to let them change be fundamentally, right?

Like I'm not going to dance on anybody's grave.

But Mitch is alive, so you'd be dancing on this. Right, that's right. Well, I'll tell you this about Mitch. I said this to Heather Cox Richardson yesterday. You know, like these older and he's been pretty public about his, like he had polio as a child. He lost speech from a podium. So I was a surprise to hear that he had a health challenge. And it wasn't suspicious until Scott Jennings posted that he talked in for 25 minutes about foreign policy.

And I texted Dan O'Bash and I said, "Is Mitch dead?" And she said, "No, Scott Jennings just posted about him." I said, "That's why I wondered if he was dead." So I wasn't suspicious. And what is interesting to me is I'm not on Twitter, but supposedly the right is just suspicious as the left. So I don't know what's going on.

“I think life is legacy. So I don't have anything new to say about Lindsay and DAS or Mitch and Sickness.”

But I, you know, I find it heartbreaking. Like, there's no way these guys agree with the Donald Trump form policy.

And there they are, there they were. I'm not looking for grave evidence. I'm just, I'm just curious, like about your personal reaction on Lindsay. Like you had to know Lindsay pretty well, like before all this, right? And you guys had to hang out. Yeah, I mean Marco Rubio and Lindsay Graham were the most brutal critics, more brutal than Jeff when you worked for him in 2016 of Donald Trump's lack of character. Lindsay Graham looked into a camera on the primary in 2015-16 and apologized to Muslim members of the American military for Donald Trump's racism and bigotry.

Do you remember that? I don't know if it was on a debate stage. And then after January 6, he said, "It's been real fun, but I'm off and out." And Lindsay, just couldn't stay away from, from power. It's a pathology. I'm not qualified to diagnose. But I think that he, I think that he did a lot of damage to the democracy. I think he did a lot of damage to the men and women who protected him on January 6, have seen some of the statements from them.

And I, you know, not a fan of a single Republican who capitulated to Donald Trump over nine years and brought us to this, like, breaking point of American democracy, like he could break our democracy tonight. It's interesting. It doesn't feel like you have, like, conflicted feelings about it at all. I mean, some people do. What do you, how do you feel?

I don't know. I just, I guess they'd be a little melancholy. I mean, because I haven't liked Lindsay lately, and obviously, and I don't, like, once I, I don't want to pretend like we're good friends. Like, I know pretty well. I need to call me and get my phone number, and it's really, really funny and affable and there are things you really cared about that I really cared about. Yeah. So I don't know. The whole thing is like, it's, it's sad.

Like, look, I worked for John McCain and John McCain loved him. Yeah. But one of the things they loved together was the democracies under threat by Russia. And, and Lindsay Grant grabbed him break up with Donald Trump when he, like, threw Zelensky out of the Oval Office. He seemed to hug him just as hard after his before.

“So I, I thought I believe some of the same, same things that he did, but I'm, I'm really not so sure.”

Sure. But does take a little bit to, like, I wanted to kind of just get the Nicole temperature on the America 250 stuff. Obviously, Jack and something he wanted to say, but the McCain thing, Mark Salter, I'm sure you know, well, I was making a speech writer. I shouldn't have him back on the podcast in years.

So wonderful. He's so wonderful. He's so brilliant.

Oh, did he? Yeah, he's such a good person. Anyway. So good. The next thing is on years ago now.

He talked about, like, one of the cool things that were confirmed, McCain, whatever your Complaints were about McCain. As he goes, any time we went somewhere in the world where there was an autographed trying to deny people rights. It wouldn't matter. It was Africa, Eastern Europe, Asia, whatever.

And John McCain would go somewhere and we would go to meet with leaders or go to a school or something. There would be somebody there that would be like John McCain. Like, that is what America is supposed to be. You are fighting for us against this tier. Yeah.

And, you know, certainly not every policy. It was perfect to whatever. But like, that was like this goal. I mean, it was the shining city. It was the old line, right?

Like that. And he represented that. You know, yeah. One of the other things that maybe makes me melancholy recently during the fourth is like, I do.

I wonder if that's just gone. Like, I wonder.

“I think there are certain things that we can save and protect.”

We can protect our democracy and fight for it. But I don't know if that is save. Yeah. If we're in a world where it's kind of like, you know, that every four years you might end up getting a person that's going to be on the side of the fascist. You know.

And, I don't know. I just want to think about that at all. You and, you know, working for McCain.

You know, I, I, I really feel like we're always one leader away from something different.

I always did. I, I, I'm not sure if I still do. But I, you know, let yourself think about that. You already talked about that earlier. Right.

I know let myself pull the thread too far forward. I would say this though. Like, I don't know who wouldn't give Orban's successor a meeting or a chance. Like, I think when we read ourselves of Trumpism, the way Hungary's rid itself of Orban, I hope that the world gives us a chance.

If we prove that we want to be something different than corrupt and hostile to our allies. And ignorant of the value of our alliances. And in different to the role that Russia plays and eating a raw and mobile war with it. Like, if, if something, if we as a country, if our people choose something different. I hope that the world will give the leader that that the mega people choose.

After this, if it's something or someone different, a chance. Yeah. What do you think? I'm thinking about it. I'm thinking about it.

- I don't know. - I have to think about it. - I have to think about it.

“I have to go pee down coffee and try to get my head around.”

- Yeah, okay, you keep drinking coffee. This is a point of the podcast, okay. You know, I come online and it's like, I gotta have a 90 seconds feel. All right, so I gotta get a go.

- You can always have more than 90 seconds.

- I know, I just do. I'm just joking. Sometimes it takes like six minutes. - Okay, well that's not a model. - How many's the new Schmidt?

Like I feel like I can like ask him a question and then like give a story's program. Like I could like. And it always lands, like he always like stick phone. - He brings it back around.

- He's stick phone. - He's stick phone. - He goes down the tributary, the river, and then it comes back and it's the main body. - Okay.

- I guess you just think about it. It's all before my life. Like obviously things can change over time and you know, who knows of the future holds. And I like, you know, there's like there's,

you can get crazy talking about the stuff. And when I pee down this week, he's like about 2050. And I was like, I'm glad there's somebody like Pete thinking about 2050, but that's,

that's really the help of us, right? - How is Pete? I asked you this on the TV show, but I, you got him at such a raw moment for Pete. How did he say?

- He's mad. - He's mad. He's mad.

“And he's Pete, you know, I think that's what I said”

in the show. Like his emotional range is not like his eyes. - He's so nice. - Right. - But which is probably good for a leader, right?

But like, he's mad. - Like he cuss twice on the pod. I don't think I've ever heard him cuss before, maybe I have. I can't not like him in the mirror.

And then off camera, 'cause I asked about Chester on the pod, and he kind of told you to want to talk about it, and I've met Chester a couple of times with I know I'm a little bit, and I just feel for him, you know, I connect,

and so I asked him off camera about it. I don't want to reveal it, but again, he can just tell, he was like really upset. I, you know what I mean? It wasn't fake.

You know what I mean? It wasn't, I read the news letter. It's like sometimes when people bad things happen, people want to say, oh, you know, you're just playing the victim car,

or you're just playing the game. And it's like that, listen, that was really bad. It was really painful for them, but also on the other hand, I thought he was really good at the speech

at the Iowa Du Boing Dinner,

and I think that he's always been good

like arguing on Fox and pretty good at Q&A, but you know, he's never been like really like a goose bump sky. For me, other people, you know, but I thought he was, it's interesting. I don't know, there's something about the second Trump

and him being in the wilderness for a while, maybe would say, I don't know. I thought his speech was really good. So whatever, that's what I mean. - Well, I thought it was interesting

that you asked him, like, did part of you want to say, like, fuck off, you're not taking my kids, and to me, you're like, you're right. Like, it shows that, like, there's only one side still, like, respecting the rule of law.

And I thought that was so interesting.

That, like, he's still in his own telling in his statement or their statement, they put out, like, they feel like the cop, you know, believe them. And so like, to me, there's also this rule of law, like, layer to it,

where he's sort of still in this system that Trump is burning down. Can you imagine, like, if that happened, if anyone did that horrible, horrible thing? And hopefully, you know, whenever it does that again,

I'm like, hopefully, publicizing. It means that no one ever does it. But there's just, there's such a, such a disorienting moment, yeah. - Between the sides, it really is.

Oh, we were talking about what the McCain thing. So here's my thing about the peak, 'cause this does kind of relate, actually. It's like, the other part of the conversation with Pete

was just how, you know, Democrats shouldn't always

be the ones who are feeling forced to defend the system and people were unhappy about the way certain things went

“in foreign policy and in government and I get all that, right?”

And so you find yourself, you know, even when you want to say, hey, we want radical change. I want things to be different. Like, you're still by nature, respectful of the way

of the maythings working, of other people and stuff. And so you need it's hard to be the revolutionary when you have that. And I feel like that's just the same thing with foreign policy. I kind of feel like this has been dumped

on the Democrats now, where it's hard to imagine. And that we haven't had that. And it's like, since World War II, every president both parties, bad people, good presidents, whatever. They've all believed in some basic rule of law, abroad,

you know, liberal democracy, you know, we should have varying degrees for support and protect it. And it's like, I think that's over on the other side. And so then I just think of that changes thing. So it's like, Pete and whoever it is on the Democratic side

can have a bold plan for how things should be different. But like fundamentally, it's like,

you're never going to be the radical with the other side.

It's going to be like, you know, and actually fuck France. Like, we're going to side with Qatar. When they give us a plane, you know what I mean?

“Yeah, but like, here's where I think this is around the energy”

that you sort of give to it. Because I think that Trump is so corrupt and so extreme. And so disinterested in any foreign policy, economic policy, or like, like, grifting policy that helps a single person that voted for him, that you can be for--

you can be for things that will be radical after Trump that aren't actually that radical. Like to say that while you're president, you cannot also trade in the stock market. Would be like a radical departure from where we are.

Trump traded, like-- Are you a teleprompter person? Can that trade in the cash he market? Which is a story today, apparently. He's teleprompterator, made a hundred thousand dollars.

So like to be for things that are widely accepted, will be a radical departure from where we are. I think that Democrats have to like really root themselves in the moment. And be for fixing all the shit that just feels like it's--

you know, you probably don't have shitty vacation rentals. But you know, like you go and it's supposed to be sunny and then it rains and then it rains and then it's like running-- I don't know, I just feel like you'd have your arms around it better than I did.

But like so you're rent-- like the house is leaking everywhere. Like people are pissed off of the grocery store. They're pissed off of the gas station. If you're military family, like we cover his erratic posts

about Iran because they're signs of instability and lying. Your families in the military, they're signs of when they're coming home are not. It's like how much longer the deployment be. So you can like level set the things where Trump is so off the rails.

And it would be a radical departure from where we are right now without being like traditionally radical. Does that make sense? Yeah. How do you think they're doing at that Democrat?

Well, I think off-off gets better every time he opens his mouth. I just-- It was really good in that.

“And that's what was at the Clayton test?”

It's really good in the parking lot two days ago. Like every time they ask, like he's just on the moment and able to-- and maybe it's living--

he seems to be someone who isn't always in Washington, right?

Like I feel like half the time we got him, he's into. So living among his neighbors is like, if you are living in your community, going to events with your kids as you do as well. People are talking about their worried about eating salad

this summer because they don't want to get the diarrhea parasite. They are like, what is that data center story? Like, people feel like things are spiraling out of control. Regardless of who you voted for, where you come down in immigration, nobody wants an ice jail in their neighborhood.

Like, there's all this stuff that just feels so unmoored. And also feels like plugged into this stuff, people actually talk about warnaq, too. And I don't know if it's like a Georgia magic kind of thing where like there's--

It's a little bit that you have to talk to real people. Yeah, and people that are totally in your bubble.

Yeah, and it seems to aid the people who aren't in Washington all the time to talk like that. I'm still a Christmas Murphy fan.

“Like, I think he gets the autocracy and corruption stuff,”

really, really, really, this early in community. I feel like the Democrats are at the first stage of acceptance, whether they understand they need a communicator, they have tried to sort of stay out of the primary-- like, as an extra public, and I feel like zero people care about my opinion

about their should vote for it at primary. Yeah. Yeah, I've tried hard to stay neutral in those two after the same reason.

I'm always just like, I'll have you on after the primary.

Everyone's in a while, something will catch my eye, but I'll feel the need to pop off on it for the most part. I think that's a good instinct. As an extra public, I also don't know that on that helpful to anybody. I'm kind of like, would you want me saying it?

I split it, but anyway. Yeah, and like, I'm an extra publicist. I like the more progressive people don't use resonate with me, but I'm perceiving democracy and to save democracy the Democratic Party's the only one that seems

to be really interested in that. And so they should pick people who they think can do that and can win. So separate from that, maybe from the ideological features, like from your opinion, obviously the resistance, the Democrats,

whatever you're going to call us for a democracy movement, didn't nail it since we got back in there. You know what I mean? We did not stick our landing. Okay, so what would be your thoughts on what we didn't do right

“or what, or even just if it's more forward-looking, like what?”

So here's my, I don't have a lot of thoughts. I have one, like you need a fighter, right? Like that's the thing that you actually need, practically, and you actually need politically. And if you want a fighter, I would go find someone

fighting him right now. You've got a couple of buckets. Like it sounds like awesome, more knocker, going up to fight for the legitimacy of the offices they hold. Even though I think we're not ran again two years later and one.

But so like people that are fighting him every day

is where I would look first, the six lawmakers who made the video

telling men and women to ignore illegal orders. I've been in a fight with him. He tried to indict and prosecute them. And the reason we don't lump them into a lot of our retribution conversations is because the grand jury refused

to indict them. But had the grand jury been, I don't know, in South Florida, or somewhere else, like we could have six indicted lawmakers for simply telling men and women of the military to ignore illegal orders.

I would take a fighter.

“And I think that like someone with a tier 1 communication”

skill set, some scars from being in a fight with Donald Trump. And I think redefining like uniting the party, the party isn't into unite around like every policy. The parties do unite around saving democracy. And so I would pick someone who can communicate,

who can fight, and who can sort of redefine and reframe

what a unifying candidate means in this moment.

I don't disagree with any of that, but I guess my one thing I think that is worth chewing over is, I don't know. I mean, if you look back the last 10 years, I don't think that anybody can say that the anti-Trump movement didn't fight Trump hard enough.

You know, they could maybe didn't fight him right, or they didn't do the right thing every now and then. But there was a lot of fighting happening. And he still got back in there. I agree that people want a fighter in that that's important.

I think when you listen to your answer, like the communication side, God love Clinton, Biden, Harris, but I don't, you know, they all had things that they're good at from communication standpoint, but they all had things that not as good.

So that could be approved. Do you don't look at that and think what we did, we did the fighting and it didn't work. Does that mean is that tomorrow lies in it all? - Yeah, I mean, look, losing sucks.

I mean, like, keep got a kid, like like losing a baseball game, losing a soccer, like losing sucks. But like, look at the next, like they literally lost every first quarter. It's like not about what you lose.

It's about how you dust yourself off and go like clothes. And yes, Democrats have lost two of the last three presidential elections to Donald Trump. And it fucking sucks, but J.D. Vans and Marco Rubio are no Donald Trump for better and for worse.

Like they just have to figure out how to go in. There's no analysis of the psychology of winners and winning that has you spending as much time in the past as the Democrats seem committed to doing. It's interesting, you're in a way, not directly,

but I think that the way that your show is is almost offering a model. Because you don't do the struggle sessions stuff on the show. - Most of 'cause I don't get it.

Like in the Republican Party, like if you lose, you just like get up and go try something else. And it yielded Trump, I'm not defending it. I'm just saying they're like, they're patterns. And I think the Democratic Party, there are enough

people in this country are unhappy with Donald Trump. There are enough people who want to fight aocracy.

think immigration is a good thing.

That's the highest number in like 30 years. There are enough things that have changed after they've seen how Trump is trying to change the country that there's plenty to go fight for. And I do think those three things are our entry,

like various to entry.

“If you have to be a modern communicator,”

which means like you don't sit with your com's team and decide who to talk to, you figure out how to talk to everybody, right? Like it's not if you sit down and pick like, well, I do Larry King or well, I do Tom Brokeh.

You sit down and you have time to sort of think, sleep, exercise, talk to people and communicate. Like that has to be like the new framework of how you run in this moment. But the next thing is like, why are you fighting?

Like you're fighting because you don't want to live in a country that's an autocracy. And who do you need to bring along?

Everybody who feels that way, right?

So like you need this bigger pool, and it's not about like the politics of subtraction are like, if I add Liz Cheney, I'm gonna piss up for any standards. Like that is over. You need someone who says like,

I need everybody there who doesn't want to live in an autocracy. And if you're gonna have a fight about who you sit next around the plane, get the fuck off the plane. Like the fights have been too small for the gravity

at the moment. And so it's not about fighting harder. It's about demanding that everybody fight for the same thing. And we can go back to fighting about policy. We should, right?

But as long as Trump or Bans or Ruby are there, we know what they're gonna do, they're gonna ask for prime time airtime to petalize about things that happen what they were in control of the fucking government.

“That's where we are, that's how we're heading.”

- I'm in Washington, row this week. And it's like, okay, let's say what he won about him or his ideology or quibble or disagreements but you don't look at him and say, oh, this is a magical communicator.

This is Barack Obama or whatever, but he was on Fox this week. He was on drop site, like the lefty TSA friendly site. He was on my show, he's everywhere. And it's like, he can do it.

- He's correct. - And that's great. And it's like, not as hard as it, I just, you know, I think people psych themselves out of stuff. - Or they're afraid of the negative news cycle.

Like I also think like, like some of it is, I'm getting dragged right now for something I said to Jim Acosta that I stopped airing Sarah, how could be Sanders press evails because having worked in the White House

to see her lie from the podium, like actually like it may give me like a physical reaction. And like I feel like eight years-- - Who's dragging you for that? - I know, but it's like--

- But it's like that used to like really bother me and used to really be in my head.

“But I really think like winning in this moment”

is so much about like mindset and focus. And whatever you want to say about maga and Trump and I don't have any visibility into their mindset but the focus is like dibalicle. All right, like the focus is on the like the three big lies

they tell about Democrats and liberal cities being, like like I'm sure you have maga people in your life who like every time you go to New York or like be careful. (laughing)

I was like, what, what, I mean, of what? Like a cries lower here than where you live. But you know, there is such a, and again, this is just like hard wiring, like like the right is sort of hard wired

for this like repeat, repeat, repeat. And under Trump and that's all being done in bad faith, they've drilled in all these, these lies about the left and I think that left needs and equally capable and focused counter communicator.

- How do you keep the focus on the show and the word? I can't imagine you with the whiteboard like it's a marker, this is like I know everybody wants us to talk about this stupid story where he's fighting

but that's an X. We're not doing that, they can do that on the next hour 'cause your show is remarkably focused. - Well, I think if I were to do about this,

like when he won a second time,

I was like, he benefited from the blur so no more like, no more like 10 stories. Like we do like four stories a day. Like we really, we've really like, I said as I do too, like yesterday I did Clayton

and Blanche and, uh, and nice. - Yeah, but so like your guy in the morning is he sent you a 10, you cut it to three, or it's just everybody knows that. - I mean, it's very collaborative.

I mean, I don't know if Paparkey is my EP and he'd probably be appalled by Seth, like we share part of our brain, but like the track part of the brain, like he was producing all of MSNBC's live coverage

of the 2015-2016 election. So a lot of like the stuff that I remember, he was the producer of for Brian Williams who I was on with. I mean, I think that we have the best team

that does this. And I rely very heavily on a team of people who are E-tone of them individually, smarter than being collectively. I think smarter than anybody else that does this.

And then I have, you know, like you said, like there's stories that we've been covering now for so long that you just like they're all logged in in the brain. But to me, the thing that unifies the most people

Like a podcast people are choosing you. They want you. A broadcast, you still feel some obligation to like kind of land on the thing that affects the most number of people.

And to me, the threats to democracy are that they're also consistent with what I thought I was involved in the Bush years with furthering. And I know that's going to be very polarizing thing to say. But a lot of people that worked for the president

really believed in the democracy agenda. And I know that comes with a lot of toxic baggage that people want to agree with. But for a lot of us, we believed as he believed that spreading democracy was a good mission.

And the boomerang that we can't even protect it here at home is particularly starling to me. Can we end it a positive? - Sure.

- Back during COVID-19, you always did heroes.

- Yeah. - You have a positive. - I struggle with that. Do you have a positive right now? Is there a heroes or a life well lived out there?

- I mean, Jack Smith is like my hero at the moment.

“And I think I said this to Ari Malvar, I saw him in the office”

yesterday, like I really tried and never meet my heroes. I had a chance to meet Bruce Springsteen. And I was so nervous that he wouldn't be as great as I needed him to be. And he was like 10 times greater.

He was so great. I told my son that he needed some younger fans and my son was like, yeah, you do. - When was it that you met him? - I met him when he came to New York City.

We went to the concert class. - Like Bruce Springsteen. - Yeah, on his hand of Hope and Ruth and Storm. - Yeah, see, I noticed that.

You've been shouting, it worked.

He charmed you. You've been shouting a little bit more. - But I actually, I've been tracking, I mean, I make you do these segments. I've been tracking culture because I find it absolutely

disorienting that, I mean, and you, I'm sure, feels like having work for Georgetown Beach like you couldn't get away from culture, weighing in on politics and that was healthy, right? Like it was an outlet for all the things

that people didn't like. The fact that culture and all these people who I'm sure have problems with, but Donald Trump, our silent, our children are intimidated or afraid to speak out is shocking to me.

“So, I think his stepping into the Minneapolis story”

was a huge deal, and showing up with Tom Rallow for the concert. I think the first show was there. And then going on the land of Hope and Dreams Tour, was a big sort of wake-up moment.

Now, I'm disappointed that not a lot of people seem to have followed, but I think maybe that comes as the election nearer, or if it feels scary. But I would say, Jack Smith is 10 times better than I'd hoped he would be, and I think if you made a partisan

point to him, it would just, you wouldn't not get it. It just wouldn't, you wouldn't get anything from him,

because it's not always wired.

But to hear him talk about, like, there's no public, like they get it, the public integrity in it. That doesn't mean like, that's not a liberal own. That means the American people are going to be so fucked when someone comes and uses their position of power

to steal from them. Like, like, he's, he's this true public servant. And when you see up close, what Trump is purging? He's not purging people who are against Trump. He's purging people who are for the American people.

It's sort of restored my faith that what we're fighting for, right? Like, I feel like you and I are fighting for, not a return to the past, but a level set to public trust, to when, like, the government, actually, we didn't know any of their names,

'cause they were just doing their jobs and they were working with the American people. - If they did the wrong thing, they were held accountable. 'Cause we were doing wrong things. - And we just fired, yeah, I really,

feel really, really, really fortunate that I got to interview him this month. - Hey Tim, Nicole, let's go out of a case. - I need it. - I'm telling you, this is the year to do it.

- Right now. - And I'm not sure you're freaking me out. - Look, people forget, they think that the elections are every four years, but the prime, having done the prime areas.

- I feel like they did. - They started in 20s out, you know, like somebody will a Democrat will announce for president in 2027 in January. And so that side of it started,

then you will have vance, rubio machinations, Trump pretending like he's gonna run again. - I think it's Tucker Carlson. - Tucker, right, like then Trump, I just, and I don't know what's gonna happen.

I'm just like, don't you think it's gonna get crazier? And when he sees the end line, I don't think he's gonna see the end line decide, you know what I'm gonna stand down my edges now, you know? - I'm gonna get crazier.

- Like fighting about like the reflecting pool, they're building arch, like I don't know that it can happen. - I don't, I don't want to say what I think it could be, 'cause I don't want to speak it into existence.

“So I'm just saying, I think this is the year, you know?”

So get out, get out, get out and get my car on the calendar. - All right, look over your shoulder at the beach. - Nicole Wallace, I appreciate you so much. Thanks for all the time. - You're the best. - You're the best on the flip.

- Thank you. - Bye, everybody. We'll be back next week. You'll get the gas, you'll get the bulwark people. - Happy, happy trip.

- All right, see you, go. ♪ I didn't see you ♪ ♪ Right next to me ♪ ♪ But I'm so bad you could make it ♪

♪ I look at it back ♪ ♪ I look at it back ♪ ♪ In this vacation ♪

- The board podcast is brought to you.

“Thanks to the Lord of Lead Producer Katie Cooper,”

Associate Producer Ansley Skipper,

and with video editing by Katie Loots,

an audio engineering in editing,

and editing by Jason Brown.