Sarah Longwell: Dems, Go on Offense FFS

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mail bag and I'm here with the publisher of this year's boardwork. She has a book out. I think September 8th. How to eat an elephant one voter at a time. We'll put the link to the show notes. You even bought it yet. I don't know what you're doing. Please pre-order it now. Also the show notes a friend of Mariam Thomas Sebe who's just horrific story. I talked about in the podcast earlier this week reached out and with a girl funding me for her and her family. They've been

in the Delhi internment camp for like four months, even though they're legal residents. So we'll put that in the show notes as well. Appreciate any support you have. Double duty today girl. Thank you for doing this. I just finished a long slog secret pod with JVL. Actually it was a great secret pod. Go list. Okay. I mean this is what you're getting as a board request member. The secret pod. You're going to take advantage of it. I've won overlapped topic. Okay. Okay. We have to do it.

Yep. With the secret pod. Besides that it's all fresh yeast for people. Okay.

“Great. That's what you call fresh yeast. Yeah, skiing. When you're skiing and you go on the mountain,”

you know if it snows a little bit overnight, you get fresh yeast. I never heard that. No.

It's like a little Colorado slang for it. The Kennedy Center, there was some announcements yesterday. The board of trustees, which is Trump and his pals, approved a resolution calling for a new inscription beneath the center sign that would read restored and renovated by President Donald J. Trump. It also voted to close the venue for two years of renovations and rename the center's grounds. President Donald J. Trump Plaza. The decision faces some legal obstacles for people to

attention. Trump had added his name to the building already. The court said that was not allowed. The judge, I think, said it. The law makes crystal clear that the centers are being named for President Kennedy. They've been, they've had a tarp over it. I do sense. Yes. Do you ever drive by? I do. The tarp is up. The tarp is up. They don't want anyone to see the building without Donald Trump's name on it. And because people, including our people, went and camped out

there when they were supposed to be taking his name down. They didn't want anybody to see that,

“right? Because the only thing Trump cares about is his sort of fragile little ego. And so,”

yes, they've tarped it. And now they, basically, they clearly went back to the drawing board and said,

how do we get his name on this? And one of the things that this is the boards doing. But if you remember, they stripped, they took care of kicked everyone off the Kennedy Center board when Trump came in, put Rick Renell in charge of it. I believe. And then stacked it with a bunch of other sort of Trump totes. So their big goal has been shutting down the Kennedy Center and figuring out any way possible to get Trump's name on it. You know, that was Rick's consolation prize after

he lobbied to be Secretary of State. And I came to know, I think we'll put the gay over the theater. Yeah. One of the things I promised people after Trump won was that I was like not going to pretend to be outraged about things. You know, like we all knew that we all only have so much, you know, kind of room in our heart for rage if we're not going to stroke out. This has been a story that I've struck. You know, I'm not a theater queen. It's just, you know, time to leave. This is you are.

Should I be really mad about this? I mean, aren't we just going to take his name off the

for me to really really more mad about it than I am? So I think all of the reflecting pool,

the ballroom, the Kennedy Center, they all sort of don't matter substantively, but they matter a great deal sort of metaphorically because it is, uh, this is the example of how we are all being dominated by Trump's ego. He pays attention to these things. He doesn't pay attention to the material needs of Americans. He walks us into a stupid war. You will go in the record and say, yeah, I don't care for publicans lose. I don't care if inflation is up like I don't care.

I love the inflation. He says, uh, and so he won't pay attention to those things that matter.

“He does pay attention to this. So I think it matters in that regard about where Trump's”

attention is. Yeah, I think it matters politically. I cheated on you on a little bit and monitor a focus group that was not one of yours. Who's was it? I just a friend works for a campaign and was kind of just going to read out of their focus group, um, uh, and in one of the house races. And this, this notion really has broken through. Yeah. Like, with Trump voters, one swing voters, like the idea that he cares only about this shit. Right. And I, and I do

think that that is that's meaningful. Right. And I think that like this stuff, if the economy is good. Exactly. He hadn't done the stupid war. Yep. Maybe, you know, he'd get away with it. Yeah, he'd get away with it. You know, the resist flips on sub stack we mad, but, but maybe that would just be it. But I don't, I do think this, this has more residents for that reason. I mean, this is where the contrast. So I talk a lot about contrast because I think that when you hear this in my

focus groups all the time, where people are like, I expected to have the economy of Trump's first

term. And the fact that they aren't, and the fact that there is this war, and I cannot stress enough. I just did a bunch of focus groups in Florida. When we run a call, uh, she played some sound from the Florida focus groups. I was genuinely a little surprised at how angry these voters were at Trump right now. And it is the war. And it is the tariffs. And it is the fact that he is not paying attention to the economy. And that is why these things now matter. And then there's the one

cleatest was mad that we're not deporting enough people. But he was mad about both. That's it was funny that she, she played that clip of a guy being like, they're not doing enough mass deportations. And also the war is really stupid, where his, and he was like, I want to give Trump an F because he's not deporting enough. And he got us into a stupid war. That was people meaningful because it is like exactly in the vote. Very possibly not. Yeah, I mean, this is where

the enthusiasm gap gets real going into 2026 is like the when these Republicans are just frustrated with Trump. If you're a Republican and you love Trump, you're like, well, I want to protect as a agenda. If you hate as a agenda, you're much less motivated to do it.

“Speaking of things to remember about yesterday, um, you know, when I think of order to chat about”

on the pod, I asked you kind of like, what you're upset about. You mentioned the Max Miller situation simultaneously yesterday for people who are not on x.com. I created a little bit of a star, well, at which when I did the thing I do about once a year, which is remind people that Mike Waller, the congressman from New York, uh, when he was 18, even still, I did some weird stuff and I was 18, but nothing like this. He traveled from New York to California to go to Michael

Jackson's trial, where he trolled the parents of the children that were alleging my station. Well, a station. Yeah. He also has dressed up at Michael Jackson Blackface. That's three weird. So, um, these two topics merged. They did. When she went, uh, Mike Lawler was on Dana Bash. Yesterday, and I want to play a little bit of their conversation. I am not reading the calendar section. This x-wife is his ex father-in-law, and I am asking you a purely political

question. It's a purely political question. Why not just give it back. It's only $10,000. Because this is, this is the typical Washington, this is the typical Washington media game where

“it's always an allegation comes up. You must return the money. It's, it's the typical game.”

Everybody plays and it doesn't actually do anything to further the situation. If there's evidence that max did something, then obviously there should be a thorough investigation of that. But thus far, there's been nothing to verify any of the claims that have been leveled. I think it is a tragic family situation. We all know people who have gone through nasty divorces. Do we? Do we all know people who have gone through nasty divorces where the wife says that the

husband scalded her and there's domestic violence and the husband kidnapped the child's beloved bunny and there are two other women that say that the husband has roughed them up or done other kinds of domestic violence. I don't think that's typical divorce. I don't know anybody's been in a

nasty divorce like that, actually. No plenty of people who've gotten divorced. I've never heard

anything like this. I really want to talk about the max Miller thing because it is an example

which is we have six weeks out from the Platner discourse because he, like every other Republican, when the Platner thing was happening and the accusations were coming out, condemned, Platner condemned all his supporters, condemned anyone who was backing him and so Democrats did the right thing and they tossed Platner overboard when he was credibly accused of rape.

“Republicans in extraordinary close proximity to that same thing happening who you may remember to him.”

Our friend Kevin McCarthy and Kellyanne Conway going on TV regularly to say we don't defend abusers and our ranks. Now, at the time it was already absurd because of course Donald Trump renders all of that stuff. The hypocrisy is already there.

But to then, just weeks later, have this max Miller situation, right? And Republicans basically

be like, "No, we're going to stick with them." And for somebody like Mike Lawler who likes to pretend, like he's one of the good guy moderates to say, "This is just divorce. The hypocrisy is staggering." They are willing to brazen these out. This is a difference between Republicans and Democrats. And it is not just Lawler and the elected officials. It's the entire sort of right-wing Twitter brigade who came for us over Platner, who came for everybody over Platner

“and Platner. That's right. And they're all heads in the sand on Max Miller, which brings”

me to the second thing that really bothers me about the Max Miller. I do want to tell you, when I criticize Max Miller, I do get some likes from Republican World. I believe Harmeet Dylan. Oh, they don't speak out, but they're willing to say that. They don't like, they don't like him. And so, you know, and those, and likes are private. I should have, I should have, I should have, I should probably out them. I probably should have done that already. Anyway, Harmeet Dylan,

the phone that comes to mind. But, you know, I was making fun of Max Miller. And because they all hate him, he's a douche. And he fucking beat up a Republican Senator's daughter and the spokeswoman's

definition. So it's like, they don't like this guy. They always just scumbag. You and I did a

take one point where we laid out all of the times, Trump was willing, interestingly, Michael Jackson

“came up, and that's what we do. We're Trump went to go to bat for any abuser who shows up,”

Mike Tyson, Michael Jackson, you know, Eric played with Michael, and he talks about how his kids played with Michael Jackson all the time. Yeah, we're one. Okay, that's one part of it. Then I'll talk about Democrats and offense. So one of the things that is driving me crazy right now is that in light of this hypocrisy, right? The way that the right came together around Graham Platner to go on offense, not just against Platner himself, but against everybody who might have tacitly supported

him. They came at me, even though, it wasn't tacitly supporting him. Like, they made try to make a tie everybody to their behavior. I mean, my dad's retirement party, some family members that are MAGA, you know, we're like asking me about Graham Platner. Like, listening to me about Graham Platner. And I was asking them, I was like, do you know who Mary Patola is, or Roy Cooper is? I'm like, no,

I never even heard any of these other names, right? Because to your point, because the right is

really good at, like, surfacing, you know, these bad examples of Democrats and going on offense, forcing Democrats have to defend it. The psychology of this is they hide from themselves, their own disgusting acquiescence to Trump and all the immorality that comes with that, right? They don't want to tell themselves that story. So what they focus on, offensively, is any Democrat who behaves poorly as a way to say what about what about and to evacuate themselves, right, from that criticism.

But it is wild to me in this moment when they are so close to the Graham Platner situation for Republicans are standing by Max Miller. And Democrats aren't in a brigade themselves going on offense against Republicans for doing this. They should be hanging it around Eric Erickson's knack. They should be hanging it around every Republican who was made the Platner things such a big deal. But they can't because they're fighting with each other. Yeah, that's right. And Lola provides a good

example. You know, and this is an easy opportunity. And I assume kick-conly and her campaign will take this opportunity. But it's like, you can tie back to the Epstein issue. It's like, all these guys, except for what MTG needs you may start like four of them. Like, all of them blocked the Epstein files release. So you've got Mike Loller who's so into Neverland Ranch that he went like flew to defend. This was brand new information. Well, to the defend Michael Jackson

and troll the victim's parents. So big defender of Neverland Ranch, Epstein cover up in favor of running, you know, cover for Max Miller who is incredibly he's a domestic violence by Republicans. Like, there is a good story to tell. Yes, people. And Mike Loller, I mean, who is

And that is replicable. I think in other situations with the example that I don't know that anybody

else is that huge of a fan of Michael Jackson spill out fight parties with children. Yeah, I know people have very strong opinions about the Michael Jackson stuff. Oh, yeah. And let's just say, forget which side of that maybe you're on? How? I don't know. Why would you? Well, I just, I'm not neutral. No, I'm not neutral. I'm not neutral. But I still think that my only point is is that even if you were neutral, the idea that you would put on black face and go down there.

“Now granted, he was 18. These are two severed incidents. What incident he put on black face?”

We'll put the picture up. Oh, it's not the same. No, two things. He just was a big stand. He's big in the standard. So one time he did Michael Jackson black face was kind of weird because Michael Jackson kind of did white face. Well, you had, I think he had a disease. I saw it on Oprah when I was young. Oh, okay. Well, even still you, if you could dress as Michael Jackson without darkening your face, given how Michael Jackson was. But anyway, he went the extra mile and did the black

face. That was for a party. And then also went to the trial. Okay. I, well, I didn't know any of that until I saw your tweet. And that was fun. My point is that that is a wild thing to do to like go down to a trial. That is an intense thing to do regardless of how you feel. I want to see

Democrats like guys, male, my collar, a million blue bunnies, like put the blue bunny in your

Instagram for a while, like I think the black box. Can we not make this a huge issue? Can we not discover what offense looks like and go after the bad guys? Yeah. Look at that Michael Jackson black face photo. Katie just put that up on the screen here and see. Look at that. Look at that one of the look. Look. He's doing the dance. Yeah. All I guess is the perfect time to hit reset before the autumn rush begins. And honestly, I can't think of a better place to start a reset than the

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365-day returns down available in Canada and the UK two that's QUI-NCE.com/thebullark. There's another clip I saw yesterday of a man of fear stuff. She ain't Gillis. Who saw he's like, if you don't know, he's probably the best of the bro comedians. He did, and he's been photographed with Trump. He's a little more Trump curious than us here at the headquarters of Trump's range in syndrome but compared to some of the other guys out there,

Rogan has him on and they're a bunch of interesting clips. They're talking about a great socialized healthcare as for example and they're a bunch of interesting things but there was one that particularly caught my mind because Shane is telling Joe about the corruption. Yeah, the corruption is happening but he particularly tells me about the example of Trump's selling for $100,000 access to his tweets early. So people can inside your trade on him.

Let's watch a little bit of exchange. I don't know what's happening at the beginning of the clip. Looks like a man is drinking out of an American flag boot. We should get one of those. No, I think this is Neagle's butt. What's an eagle's butt? I'm not sure. You know what, he's drinking out of an eagle's butt. I've got a eagle's butt. Truth social needs to people and then they can bet on it. What?

“I think, yeah. We bet on you selling access on access to what?”

Are you selling faster access to his tweets? And then you can bet on it. Bet on what is on the markets? Because it's literally inside a trade. It's Kashi. Maybe better on everything you can fix. Wait and fix your bet. Real? You get access to a tweet before he makes it and then you get bet on that tweet. How's that legal? Great question. What is that? Trump sued over true social advanced access sale.

Who's failing Donald Trump? I know. Couldn't be Trump himself.

“The corruption couldn't be coming directly from Trump.”

That's if he hasn't been a scam artist for a fucking half century. Who is? What is the incoming news that Joe Rogan was receiving? Listen, this clip is also a perfect example of a phenomenon that I need people to get their heads right about, which is people are like the left needs a Joe Rogan. And I'm like, guys, to be a Joe Rogan is not to be on the left or right. To be a Joe Rogan is just to live in total blindness to the world. You sit at your computer, you get really high,

you lift a lot of weights and you don't actually tap in to the news much, which is why they keep failing because they keep bringing up people who are of the left, but who are consumed by politics. I don't know a lot of it. And argue a lot about it. That's not what Joe Rogan does. Joe Rogan sits there like a pure little baby just getting this information as it comes to him. He's like, that news about Trump selling access to his truth social has been out there for weeks. And it was

big news. Rogan, bring a new information. Top of drugs. Yeah, I would like to learn a little bit about Rogan's kind of media diet. I'm a little bit less, I care on fire about like, sometimes I feel like the rhetoric, the anti-manager rhetoric can be a little bit

overblown. It's like, it's a comedian's podcast. Right. Tell me now. And I always felt this

way about like the O'Van, my Louisiana guy. It's like, we have a mutual friend. And I said, we passed on to Theo. Maybe we can clip this now. You can send it to him. Like, he's back as this hilarious like when he has on like an omish kid. And he wants to ask the omish kid what's life like it's an omish team. Yeah. He's funny. He's funny. It's like the problem is when you have device president United States on because you don't know what's happening in the news. So the

device president United States comes on and starts just fucking gaslighting you and lying to you. And you're like, oh, really? Oh. And like, you're fucking huge audience listens to that. Like, that's the problem. And like that's like the Rogan thing. It's like, okay, like you're going to talk about aliens. Great. That's fine. But it's like if you're going to talk about the news, if you're going to go to the White House, like Rogan has done multiple times, do free PR for

“Trump. You would think that you should at least like, I don't know. No, it's not what he's up to. Do”

all like what he's doing because actually every time Joe Rogan as best I can tell gets a new piece of information about what Donald Trump is doing in this administration. He's like, Oh, that's not really not good. I don't like that at all. You're like, yeah, man. Trump's bad. Love it does the thing where he's like, it's annoying that like the Democrats are the only people have any agency in the world. Like, it's terrible thing happens out there. And it's like, why are the Democrats doing

something to resolve it? Like, that is a accurate critique. That said, we all do have agency in the world. And it's like, do you have any thoughts as a communication professional about like, like, if Joe Rogan doesn't know that Trump is selling insider trading tips to Wall Street, I assume that lots of people don't know, right? Your folks group people don't know. So like, what just thoughts and how to address that problem? Yeah, this is where when people say we need a left-wing Joe Rogan,

I'm like, no, what you have is a Joe Rogan who is an un-informed dude, but who likes to dabble

in these political issues, right? And he basically wants to talk to people who will talk to him,

go talk to the Joe Rogan that exists, right? He clearly likes getting this doing permission. He takes these inputs. And so if I were who came Jeffries or okay, fine. Well, this is the problem, right? I mean, the problem then comes down to, do you have people

“that can go on broken? And I think this is where the Democratic Party does struggle a little,”

but it's like, G.E. Vance for, I find him, you know, repelent as a, as a person talking, but lots of Democrats could say like, Joe Rogan, I want to come on and talk to you about, whatever. And think about how you go on, talk about aliens, talk about the way that Donald Trump is betraying us. They keep saying they're going to, they're going to, they're going to show us all the UFOs, right? I'm just, where are the UFOs? I mean, just, just do that. And like,

Theo Vaughan is funny. And so this is why it's not just, I look, I think that Democrats do need to build their own communications infrastructure the way that the right has, but I also think they need to avail themselves of the existing infrastructure that is not political. That's the key,

the key is that it's not political. I'm going to do the positive first and then a critique.

This is just not the thing that's over unskilled at at a big laugh this morning in the New York Times. I actually just pull this up because it's funny enough to read it. Our friends in New York Times, they spawn to the episodes, but sometimes we can make fun of them too. Um, happens to the best of us. And the media business here does, as I have line in today's New York Times. Mam Donnie's bro culture in city hall sports memes nicknames as much as Oron,

also relies on humor and sports references and pop culture. It's like, so they're guys. They're just

normal. They're just, sorry, not even guys. Not even guys. I have multiple women run companies meeting the woman and like, you can talk about sports and pop culture. We also give each other nicknames. It's like, so my dad can do this. He could go, he should, you know, he can go on these shows. And he's fine. He's regret and he's super talented, able to kind of mix it up, you know, get as universal healthcare and free grocery stores or whatever government on grocery stores mix that in

and talk about other stuff. Like, this is doable. But it is, I just think it's telling that it's like the fact that Mam Donnie can do it and that he has a staff that is fluent in all the stuff. The fact that that is like surprising enough to merit a story in the New York Times. I kind of tell you that is that is telling that the other part of it is that they identify that specifically as bro culture as opposed to just culture like people like to tell jokes. They like to give each other

nicknames. They like to treat each other like human beings. Whereas each other a little bit, have fun. You may have noticed this happens on the board by the next. They're like, and so like, that's not bro culture. It is how normal people just engage with each other. And this is when you think about Democrats in their stiff talking points. And I think that the, the Thanksgiving thing now has been sort of done to death. But like that sounds alien to me. Right? That is

somebody being like this thing that you love that you celebrate in culture, which is part of your

“vacation. Is that right? When you see your family is like a bad thing and you should feel bad about”

it. That's just a weird thing to say, where joking about sports and like liking comedians is just how people want to exist. Yeah. So that's part of it being able to do that just being a part of the actual culture is part of our is I. So think about these a little bit wanting and I feel bad for the comes. So I used to be a comes person and it's like kind of easy to sit here in the big home beach air and say what I'm about to say, I get that like you get an

organization. So I just read it's not to do stuff. That is to be like Trump is so bad. And there's so many opportunities. But like I want some more stunts. Yeah. I want some more big stunts. And occasionally it's not first time I've offered this and I think some of our are we're going to mail back later. Some of the negative feedback we just see sometimes it's like the Democrats will do a stunton will be bad. And then I'll complain about it. That's a risk of stunts

for sure. Okay. Like just because I like stunts does mean that every stunts are good stunts. Okay. But like I don't know. I just I do feel like there's something that there's like a limit on the creativity of how to get these stories about Trump's

corruption to break through. Or I always I don't want to pick up Seth Molten guy, you know,

good guy. And I I hope he wins and his primary against Markey. And I was talking to Bill about the yesterday and I was when we had lunch and I was like, I want Seth Molten like almost chaining himself outside the ice facility and Massachusetts. Right. Like I want really dramatic gestures. And rather than what you're saying are like kind of been nitpicking within the party. I never think I want very over over the top gestures going after Trump.

I am still left a little wanting on that front. Just kind of across the board, basically.

“Yeah. I think that look not to reference my book. I'm sorry that I am in the phase of,”

you know, as I say in my book. But it is true that a bunch of what's in my book is about communication narrative dominance, the way that Trump practices narrative dominance and the way that Democrats can go on offense to push back. And a lot of it, I think that because the line between a stunt

and cringe is like a, you never know where you're crossing that one. But I do think that Democrats

it's been a lot more time. Even if it's just be serious about it, but like call a press conference. All right. You're in the middle of a contested election. The press will come. If you call a press conference to say, I want to lead the charge against Max Miller. My colleague, Max Miller who needs to go, he's a lousy guy, like pick up the mantle of something, stand for something. It doesn't all have to be sort of performance art. I go back to my blue bunny idea.

I like the blue bunny idea. That's one of the, but like think about what are the things that you can do that, that harness people's attention. And they like, they don't, it's like they floundering that space. The line between performance and cringe is then a little cringe isn't bad, though. You know, I mean, this is something the Trump learned, right? Like if like your people like it and the opponents are making fun of you, then more people are seeing it because everybody's

“talking about it, right? And so, you know, I think that that is like the advantage of like shooting”

more shots in this right. Here's an example of the thin line between performance and cringe.

mail and ballots. And Fox was making fun of them for it yesterday. That's why I won't

clip here's the mail and never fails. It makes me want to wag my tail when it comes. I want to whale.

But Fox is making fun of them. And it like this works, right? I mean, A, well, this is a weeks ago people are learning about the mail ballots, but also it's like, I don't know, on the one hand,

“Fox went to call him a terrorist, a very scary G-high, I think Trump called him a G-hotest in the”

lighthouse. And then like the next minute Fox is showing a video of him like doing corny dad jokes. It's first of all. That is the most that I have liked Abdul also had since I've become acquainted with that because most of what I've seen for a handbrake is comes from a primary where he's like, you know, crap it on Haley Stevens. He was like my who I had a preference for, but I watched that and I'm like, I think he's adorable. First of all, he looks great in that chart. And second of all.

I wish you were more colors. He's always in that black V. Yeah, it did it look nice on him.

There's something about him. He's doing like a civic action, which I love a good civic action. I love, right? That that that's the way you get to my heart. Like telling people to send their ballots. And he's taken a swing. It's funny. He's appealing to like, I'm a little old for booze clues, but like, you know, it's it was a cultural thing. My younger siblings liked it.

“And so I think that that backfires on Fox, that that is a good thing to do. Yeah, there's a lot of”

this with him in particular. And actually maybe I should kind of revise an extent that earlier point where some of my frustration on the failure on the performance side is like with my our people, like the central left Democrats, you like the established Democrats because the left

candidates, we see handfuls of them are pretty good at it. I imagine it's a lot on which they

are dual. So that's a more, you know, kind of cheesy version of it. But his really passionate arguments, you know, going after money and politics, going after what's happening in the Middle East, going after the healthcare executives, right? Like the actual policies are probably not like exactly what you and I would want, you know. But like he's defining a clear fell. Yeah, you know, and you can tell he's passionate about it. It resonates with where Democratic voters are.

And then it creates this response, I think, it's so funny from the right where they are like, you know, calling him names, they're like, "Oh, I've dual cell cell cell head hates Israel so much." And I'm like, this is a little bit reminiscent of for me of the mistakes we made as like in the Jeb King of Bay and in Martin everybody came back. Marco Scott Walker, where we were like, Trump is a racist with his Muslim ban. And it's like, well, that was true, right? But like,

was that a good message just looking at this strategy, why is that moreality-wise? Because like, that means the voters heard about it more. And the voters, the Republican voters, like, hell yeah. And like, in this case, whether it be whatever single mayor health care, less money and weapons for Israel, et cetera, it's kind of like they're calling him a socialist, they're calling him an anti-Israel. It's like, I think this is helping him actually. I mean, it's like a Trump element.

To the, I could say reverse, like Trump is in the Jeb shoes. And so else I had is in the Trump shoes. That, you know, I guess I'm not comparing them at a moral level, but like just just from like, their role in the discourse. And it's like they didn't learn what worked for themselves. Yeah. And this is where, look, if what voters learn about you as you are getting your profile raised is that your anti- Thanksgiving, and I got to tell you, people give me like Sarah stopped talking

about that, but I'm telling you, that is the thing that did her in, right, with voters, but they're like, well, that's too weird. But, so that's one example where like, not all press is good, right? If it's too far out there. But the fact is, there are a lot of Republicans that are anti-Israel right now. There are a lot of people that will suddenly go, oh, I'm,

“I'm interested in you. And you don't want us to get in this stupid war? That's right. And that's why”

this is in part there's a different game of foot now, which is about just the attention economy overall. And it can work for you or against you, but I do think, you're right, that there's a bunch of these issues that are broadly more popular than the Republican establishment thinks they are. Yeah, kind of your yesterday, right here, so in the chair, you're in, and he's getting social health care curious. So am I, not not so, but I do think, single barrel, or something like

my care for. And yeah, I think, I think that there is, I don't go into like a whole policy thing, but if you ask me one of the main things that I have shifted on, I think that, look, presidents, there's not that much they can do to like lower inflation. Like these are big

that there is a grand bargain somewhere between securing the border and offering every American when they're born comes into a health care plan. And you can purchase additional services as you need them or additional layers, but that a basic access to health care is both where we should

“be going as a country. And I think where we are going. All right, guys, got an announcement for you.”

Fall tour is happening. If you're in the Confederacy, save the date, because we're coming for you. The board is headed to the Southeast and October for our good fight tour. We want the community to come together before the 2022 midterm election. Sarah, JBL Sam and I will be headed to the Carolina and Atlanta and October. It's some other board folks are coming to. Make sure you subscribe

to be a board plus member to get your pick of seats while they last. This is important. First

seats go out to board plus members. People get very excited. They get the seats down at the front. If we do audience participation, if there's call on response, they're right there. If you're not a board plus member, you're going to, you might be up in the nose, please. Who wants that? Okay, become a board plus member. Come hang out with us. Take it. Go live for the pre-sale for subscribers on Tuesday. They go live for everybody else on Friday. We are going to be in Columbia,

Charlotte and Atlanta. Columbia, Charlotte and Atlanta. It's Columbia, South Carolina. Not, not Medellin. Columbia, South Carolina. It's so excited to be back. Love Cola. Hope you all come and hang with us. Keep it on the board dot com slash events for the latest information. All right. I promise you pull a mail back. Let's do it. Well, before we get to another, I actually, why don't we play our door one more time? Why don't we have our door take us into the

building? Here's the mail and never fails. It makes me want to wag my tail. When it comes,

I want to whale mail. Mail. We have a lot of actual emails that I got. I did use the best one yesterday. Thanks to Tyler about his explosive diarrhea. I felt like that was more appropriate for accusing her. I'm going to get to specific mail back questions, but there's a more general piece of feedback that we got from the next level that was everywhere in my inbox and read it and comments that I want to address first before you get to a specific mail questions. And that was

this question about woke one so crazy. And we'll just, a little behind the curtain here. I do a lot of prep for this show. You do a lot of prep for the illegal news and for the focus group. Sometimes we're just kind of shooting for them. We are. It's just like, hey, whatever, what are the topics today? Yeah, like, let's spit ball. We're hanging with friends. It's what you guys like it. Like the negative side of that is like sometimes, you know, I'm giving

opinions that are more secret pocket rules. They're not fully, fully formed. And so I just want to

revisit the woke thing for a second because there were a lot of people that were like,

why are Tim and Sarah so mad about woke one? Like it wasn't that big of a deal, like so people said, let's take whatever, who cares, who would start by that? And I hear that.

“And so I wanted to kind of explain myself, but do you want to go first or do it with me too?”

Well, why don't you go first? As I think we feel pretty similar. Yeah. Here's my view about this. And for people who do really care about this, I've now had ton of Hassey Coats on the pod three times. And at each time we've done woke one, it was a dead part of the conversation. And I think you could learn a little bit more about my kind of quibbles with it from those conversations, but like just to sum it up.

I think that like there are some really good parts of it. Like I think the idea that we should have more visibility for, you know, different marginalized groups, like, is like, yeah, like, obviously, right, like, which shouldn't just be like fucking white ballerinas, you know, in the store. And like having different, you know, characters that more reflect the full country in kids' books, like all this sort of stuff. At in the sea suites, it's like, I kind of think we're not even

really there. Like some of the DEI stuff in office and HR stuff is stupid, but like, I laugh at like the tech guys, they're like, whoa, it's so stupid. Like, we're past racism.

“And then I'm like, okay, well, then why is every CEO of a tech company, a white guy or an Indian guy?”

Like literally. So, you know, there is, I think, good progress that could be made both with a conspiracy in gender. And I also, like, I suppose, was the long time kind of been ace a camp on comps. I was a member of a big cop guy. I was one of the libertarian on the Republican side. I think a revisiting of the relationship between the police and the populist is also positive that that got overboard. Here's my, like, here's my manager with it. I just think

that fundamentally, like, I'm a moderate balance in all things. And I think that when it comes

part of assessing every person's character, every decision that is made in organization

is like pernicious. And it's not how our society should be. Like, I don't want to, like, we're gonna, like, whatever people are in a cringe and this is corny, but, like, the idea that people should be judged by the content of their character is, like, fundamental to the country. And that does not mean that we shouldn't, like, address structural racism and all that. Like, if we move away from that framework, we're not just people by the content of the character, it becomes

problems. And I still see that this day, like, people, like, throwing around things, like, attacking, like I saw some Twitter just this week, somebody was like, I don't want to hear what a white woman thinks about that. And like, it's like, that's a bad thing to say. I don't want to, I get a lot of white woman. Yeah, I'm sorry. You cannot use white woman as a pejorative. Like, that's not okay. It would, it would not be okay if you said, you know,

“I don't want to hear what a gay has to say or what if I can Asian person has to say?”

I got that one from the right. Yeah, sure. Like, that's just not okay. Like, that is not in the spirit of liberalism. And, and it has a negative impact on society. It also creates a backlash.

You know, like, it also strategically stupid. I was always like, okay, you want to do any

politics. So that's interesting. We'll see how you like white identity politics. And we've seen that. I think so. I think it's morally wrong and strategically wrong. And the last thing I'll say is all that is a little bit up in this cloud, esoteric cultural. And that is not a substantive harm like we've seen from Trump's policies. And there's nothing to compare all of this. Obviously, it's like, we're doing this. And I, you know, I think it's why we started an entire media

economy. Do voted to try and it's going out right away. It's authoritarianism. But like, there are also word tangible issues. Like, crime did skyrocket during the period. And part of that was COVID, but part of that was like the changes in policing and prosecuting. And like, there were victims of those crimes. Like, that's just true. Like that, that's a real consequence. The school stuff, we can all debate COVID was hard. I know JBL is like, doesn't like what we do this. But like,

kids not going to school for a year when for no reason was bad. That's just bad. And I lived in Oakland at the time of California. So maybe I was more into this. And like the example I given to you now is going to stupid. But like, a more serious example is like, people in our community that I was friends with that were not as well off, who have, who like have both parents working, or who have single parents and they work. Like, what were their kids doing? You know, like rich

people's kids, like, they paid, like a nanny or somebody to come to their house and like sit with them on their class computer while the parent did their laptop job. Like, that wasn't possible for

“regular people. So that's like my answer. Like, I think that the tonnotic knowledge that there were”

real harms is bad and tonnotic knowledge that just like fundamentally, it's illiberal to be so extreme when I did toitarianism is also, I think, not acknowledging reality. I agree with all that, but I'm going to take a, I'm going to talk about some different things. Because one of the things that I think happens is that we all have a kind of survivors bias that I, and I don't mean like, we all lived through, but I mean, we've all like, we only remember the things that really bothered us

and we've let a lot of the things go that perhaps were the excesses of our side. And so I think when people look back at COVID, a lot of people don't maybe realize or remember, but if you think

about it for one second, you'll be like, too many businesses went under during COVID, like a lot of

people lost their livelihoods. Now, it was a once in a generation pandemic and I think that like the attacks on Fauci and all this are insane, everybody was trying to do their best. But every season, there's also bad stuff in the right, it's almost really quick, like more people died in Florida after the vaccines because they didn't even have vaccination stuff and like those are

“lives lost. So like that, so that's true. And so I mean, part of part of this, I think my overall”

point is that like grace sort of needs to be extended across the board at some of these times when it was really difficult, but there are certain flashpoints that I had to come up over and over again from voters where they decided that they hated the left on COVID, like the backlash and it was things like during the Black Lives Matter protests, all the scientists who were telling them they had to stay in their houses suddenly gave a dispensation to go protest. That broke a level of trust

with a lot of people between them and sort of the scientific community. And that's trying to to woke because like that was because it was, you know, people felt like during that period that they had to make these kind of racial identity concerns like prime. Right, that's been at one thing to be concerned about amidst. So if you if you've lost your business or you

their elder care facility, things like that, like the level of anger, and this is the thing that I lived through, I remember being in my basement, doing focus group after focus group after focus group going to like during the pandemic. And the pain that I heard across the board from people who were being robbed of like every milestone of life who's parents died and they couldn't

“go to their funeral, whatever. And look, I think, and I think part of what people were frustrated”

by. So so there's the scientific community, but then one of the reasons that I think Gavin News

will never represident is because people don't talk about it anymore, but they will if he runs,

which is him going to the French laundry and eating with his friends while everybody else was being told they couldn't go anywhere. Like, it is those kinds of things that I think really did. And Mark Mayer and has this great set around how like we're annoying people into fascism, which goes to this sort of fascism effect and the strategic part of it, which is, um, and I think that on every spectrum, right? So when you think about woke, you've laid this out so I don't need

to re-lit a gate, but there's like this part of the spectrum that is like the good-hearted part, the part where people's intentions are both pure and righteous and in the right place for humanity. And then there's the excesses, right, where it goes too far, right? The idea of we need a police

department, or we need police departments that are more, start shooting people in the street,

or whatever, they're better, they're better. But they need to reflect people, yeah. Versus, defunding the police. Do you know who the main people against defunding the police are? Black people. People and dangerous. And they thought that was insane, right? And so like, those excesses created a backlash that I think allowed Trump to come back. And so I think to me, there were a lot of harms. And I don't like dismissing it just as like,

oh, people are annoyed that there's like a barista with a nose ring and Starbucks and they have them proud of them, whatever. One thing I love about summers, how easy everything feels. The days, they're just, you know, they're a little bit more relaxed, find myself reaching for

“some comfortable, go anywhere pieces again and again. That's why I keep coming back to Quince.”

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is priced 50 and 80% less than similar brands. They work directly with ethical factories and cut up the middle and so you're paying for exceptional quality, but not for brand Marca. We're headed to South Carolina for family vacation soon and I'm going to rely on my Quince short sleeve linen button-ups and the Polarized sunglasses to help me beat the heat. Sure, it's super comfortable. They keep me nice and cool and they work for any occasion from a

walk on the beach with the wife which can be nice to a dinner art with the kids, which can be in a little bit, you know, frenetic. And it's not just clothing. Quince has become a trusted favor for everything from home to travel to everyday essentials. Make your summer wardrobe easier. Go to quince.com/thebork for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. It's now available in Canada too. That's q-u-i-n-c-e.com/thebork for free shipping and 365-day returns,

quince.com/thebork. To the mailbag question, this one is from anonymous, and they say growing up my dance conservatism largely shaped my politics while my mom was a Democrat who tried her best to expose the true values. Now that my views have changed, how do I reconcile who I was politically with who I am now without feeling ashamed of my past? Oh, buddy, don't feel ashamed. You know, I think sometimes people think that it is a

mark of a bad character or something to change your mind. It is not. It is a mark of good character. Oftentimes people think of something like regret as a negative emotion, but regret is a positive emotion, because it is saying this thing from before was wrong, and I re-evaluated it in

“light of new information, taking a new information and changing your mind like, that's what we did.”

We were like, no Trump. This is a bad thing, and re-evaluating things in light of new information is a sign of intelligence, not something you have to be ashamed of. Free yourself with this, baby. I'll give you one little therapy note. This is useful from when I was in therapy. Shout out to Dr. Sharpe. He told me that, do you know the difference between

guilt and shame? No. According to Dr. Sharpe, I don't know. I guess I've never actually really

looked into the psychological literature. Basically, some did up as guilt means you feel bad that you did something bad and shame means you feel like you are bad. And so shame is an emotion that you

that would send this email is not somebody that is fundamentally bad. So guilt is something that everybody deals with about a bunch of things, and of all the things to feel guilty about the fact that before Donald Trump, the different political views that you do now are different values is not one to feel guilty about, or shame, of course. So anyway, for yourself, it's great. Growth is great. This is something that I really value in people. I connect and resonate with people

who don't get stuck in their ways. Me and whenever somebody says I have no regrets. I understand that they are meaning to be like, look, I'm wheels off. I actually think it is so weird if you have no

regrets. It means that you have never reevaluated a thing in your life. I'm going to get it wrong.

There's like an avid brother's lyric that was like something the effect of. I went friends,

“it loves me for the man that I've become, not the man that I was. Yeah. I think that's lying.”

Yeah. Always lived for me. So that's good. All right. More mail. Okay. I asked these questions to Jane Coston about Cricut B.D. universe. Okay. So we're going to turn this on to you, or us. We'll see if I want to weigh in. It's from Sarah and Portland. Which board pockets are most likely to run for office and win, run for office and lose, most likely to peer at event wearing sunglasses at night and showing off their biceps with something adults. I'll say I did board

pockets for most likely to be appointed to serve the next democratic guest, democratic administration.

Am I the answer to all of these? I think definitely most likely to run for office and lose. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Who has bicep? Oh, you know what? Will summer has biceps? Sneaky fit. He is. He was in a t-shirt yesterday when you're driving around town. For a video that's coming out next week that your people are not liking. I was like,

“will summer? He's got big guns. So I think if you put sunglasses on him and”

showing off his biceps, yeah. That's a good pick. But that could also be you wearing sunglasses at night. Showing off my biceps. I don't know about that. What do you look like we deserve the next administration? I think is bill. I think bill deserves to be the ambassador to something. The undersecretary of something. Yeah, to like Barbados, sir. I don't know somewhere. Yeah, not in the part of an award. But give Bill Crystal his flowers and let him be at a late-in-life ambassador

ship. But wait, who do you think is the podcast or most likely to run for office and win? Is this you? Are you any of them? No. I don't pick so. I don't. I'm much more likely to kind of force Tyler to list or run for office as a stalking horse from there than I want to actually run for myself. Run for office and win. Do we have any, do we have any winners around the office? I mean, we got a lot of great folks. Yeah. But you know, I don't know that many of us have the right

temperament. I don't have the right profile. I'd like, no, I don't. Please, no, they've beheaded or rupert. Yeah. Rupert isn't a cheery guy. He's a cheery guy. He's an Arkansas though. It's going to

be a good match. Maybe like mayor. As much as I like that some of these sort of never trumpers

“are going and running his Democrats for office, I'm not sure that I think that's a real viable lane”

a long term. Well, I mentioned Bill Crystal in the go to one of my favorite emails. This was from ju-so. Just a cool name. Ju-so says this. I remember hearing Sarah say that Bill Crystal likes to bumble around the office with his shoes off in his socks. WTF is that about some sort of eccentric power play. Didn't the old guy in madman do the same? DPS love bill. First of all, I love bill with like the heat of a thousand shots. Okay. But he does. And he's wonderful. But he's in the office.

And now that you're in the office, you see, right? He like he does sort of walk around and he grabs the young guys and he's like, well, he wouldn't not work in here. You know, whatever he does that. But sometimes he does take off his shoes. He was able to sit in tweede. He'll take off his shoes and then he'll get up and do his walk around thing. He's like the mayor of the office and the young guy is love it. But he wears bombas socks. He doesn't do it all the time. But every now and then

when he's just getting comfy cozy, he'll walk around his bombas in chat. Bill is working hard. I mean, God love Bill. Like, if I had to rank, what should be I should do at our next all staff meeting based on my perception, the people who are working the hardest to hear. Like, a bill wouldn't be number one. Like, we've got some 24-year-olds that were really kind of crack in the whip on. Yeah. But like, he would be in the top six, I think.

I mean, he gets up early in the morning and he's running his shots and teases people on the slack. And the sucks thing I'm fine with, some of the people I find that weird, I think it's great.

the other day and I was worried about his minor notable in New Orleans, which is to loosen our walking around barefoot in our neighborhood. And then we got like, like, I'm concrete. Yeah. Okay. I don't sometimes like to be barefoot. And then she got the notion that we should go get a treat. Uh-huh. But then I was teaching about no shoes, no shirt, no service. But she was like, out of it that we get the treat. So I did, we did walk into a store in our neighborhood, barefoot.

And I did get a spot. I said, yeah, I can meet it. Like somebody is like, love the podcast. Oh, not spotted by somebody who was like, hey, put on your shoes and get out of the store. No, I got spotted being happy. And I'm just going, I don't even know what a bill. It's just everybody be themselves. Okay. Um, what's next? Pied Tim or whoever's screening these. Tim is screening these in this case. Um, because producer answers on the issue. Your friendship was Sarah

notwithstanding. Is there any truths of Sarah who type the game in and lesbian's don't get

“along? If so, what do you think the reason is best Jessica? Great question. Here's the thing.”

Take all of the things you know about women. Then take all the things you know about men. And then there's this like bend diagram of overlap where like men and women come together to share a bunch of things, not the least of which is like they make babies together and they are. Nature has has suited them towards each other. Gamed and gay women have none of that. We are not. We are not drawn together by biological

necessity in any way, which I think takes away some of the imperative of getting along. And so culturally, we often don't share a lot of affinity. So that being said, gay men and lesbian are also just people. And so oftentimes, you know, people decide they like each other. And it can be a solidarity piece. Yeah. This is what I was going to say. I think gay men and lesbian might might be coming back together again. I think we might be having a moment right now. And here's why.

I always just say that, um, and the true, the gay men and straight women are natural allies. Right.

“Like in nature, like they are natural allies. And I think straight men and lesbians are often natural allies.”

Here's the problem now. Like I said earlier about woke one, everything in moderation. Right. The straight women have gotten a little too into, like, to us, the gays. And they've taken over our bars, like, locusts. And you know, sometimes gay men want to be in a gay bar with other gays. Right. That's a point. Sure. You know, we have, there's a big gay party, that's actually a straight gay party called Red Dress Round in New Orleans, those last weekend. And it was like,

the gay bar was like half women. And there was a woman that lit a straight woman literally came into the gay bar and looked at all of us in our red dresses. Me and my friends. And like pointed at us and said, do a circle? You guys are looking so cute. I'm like, get out of here. Yeah. And I think the, the revulsion against the straight women overstepping into our spaces is kind of

giving us a new appreciation for the lesbians that would never do that to us. We don't want to be there.

And I don't want to be in a red dress. I know. And so it's kind of like, I do feel like maybe as queer spaces are starting to dissipate. It's like, maybe we might be coming back together now in community with one another. That's a very interesting take. I will say, I, I, I, I never go to lesbian bars anymore, which is my lesbian bars don't survive, by the way, is because, you know, women, the second, their sort of like, oh, now we're, now we're together forever. We're going to have

kids and we're never going out again. But I, I went, this is probably still a couple of years ago. And I was like, there's only straight couples in here. Like it was like men with their like

“braided belts or like with their girlfriends. And I was like, where did they all come from?”

And everybody's like, oh, well, this is now everybody's so accepting or whatever that, too much ally show. Yeah, I'm like, but there's a Julian bars on 18th street. We're all the straight young people can go. Why, just, I just let all the lesbians be here. Get out of here. Okay. We're just kind of veering. I'm, I'm drunk driving all over the cars between fun questions and serious questions. Here's Jordan. This is what happens with predictions. He's kind

of probably going to organize these. I'm like, serious to silly, but we're just, you know, we're just going, oh, yeah, it's going to be a five-fifth year. Hello from Southern Oregon. What happens to ice when Trump loses the house in Senate or 28? I assume abolishing an ice isn't realistic or

ultimately desirable. What do you think about that? So this goes back to our woke conversation a

little bit where some of the problems, I think, sometimes with the excess is that you get to the excess part two early before people are ready and then it diminishes the opportunity when that thing is really necessary. Because I actually think that when a Democrat, God willing wins in 2028, one of the things they should do is probably dismantle ice and reimagine our border security. I think abolish ice in the early days led to some of the kind of backlash it's seen as an

where there's been no accountability, I do think it is one of the agencies that has to be totally revamped. Let's say we did our critics with the wokes earlier shout out to Wokes and woke one about our ice. Correct. Absolutely correct. They should abolish ice. This is the easiest one actually. There's so many tough challenges. It's like, I started during the W administration. This is not an necessary organization. Security is like brand new. We can have border patrol, do border patrol,

and fund border patrol. We can through all of the other federal law enforcement agencies do any necessary interior enforcement of violent criminals. And everybody else, if you're here legally, we can have ionistic care of you. There's a whole agency called that. I am asked, they can send you a letter. Limited government, guys. I am gonna send you a letter. It's like, sorry, you've overstage

“your visa. You need to go home. If they're not, if in six months you haven't gone home,”

they can knock on you somewhere. Say, sorry, you really have to go home. If they don't go,

you know, then the third time we can go, they're other, they're just humane ways to deal with this

if these people aren't violent criminals. We do not need fucking ice. All right, abolish ice. Yeah. One thing I love about summers, how easy everything feels. The days, they're just, you know, they're a little bit more relaxed. Find myself reaching for some comfortable, go anywhere pieces again and again. That's why I keep coming back to quince. They focus on well-made essentials and naturally become those everyday stables that you actually live in all

season long. Quince is 100% European linen pants and shirts are breathable. Easy to throw on. In the summer upgrade, your rotation needs starting at just 34 dollars. That's not a misprint,

“34 dollars. Their teas are soft enough to live in all day. The lightweight conswaters are”

exactly what you want when the summer nights cool down. Everything that quince is priced 50-80% less than similar brands. They work directly with ethical factories and cut up the middle and so you're paying for exceptional quality but not for brand marca. We're headed to South Carolina for Family Vacation soon and I'm going to rely on my quince shortly of linen button ups and the Polarized sunglasses to help me beat the heat. Sure, it's super comfortable. They keep me nice and

cool and they work for any occasion. From a walk on the beach with the wife which could be nice to a dinner art with the kids which can be a little bit, you know, frenetic. And it's not just clothing. Quince has become a trusted favor for everything from home to travel to everyday essentials. Make your summer wardrobe easier. Go to quince.com/thebork for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. It's now available in Canada too. That's q-u-i-n-c-e.com/thebork for free shipping

“and 365-day returns quince.com/thebork. So do your kids go what you do in any way? What do they think?”

Or do they just kind of know you're a podcaster? Always enjoy your guys Karen. I think my kids know

that I don't like Donald Trump and they also know that people recognize me places and they find that odd that people just come up to you. It doesn't care about that at all. Like it happens but it doesn't seem like it even registers in a rain as unusual or something she has to reflect on in any way. Well that's it. So my kids like my kids have belatedly come to realize and I think part of it is I take my kids to the the no-kings protests and not the sort of ones downtown but kind of

the ones up here where it's not older people. So a lot of people say things to my kids like do you know that your mom does? Like it's really great. It is really sweet and so they are at an age now where they understand they seem to be like they don't know what they're proud of but they're proud that people seem to think oh that one gave us nice. That's cute. Yeah to us knows that I hate Trump and did with my dad and the car. Recently it was like I wanted to do it. And I was like whoa whoa

okay so you know maybe over corrected on that one a little bit but kids are gonna be kids but she doesn't I don't think really like get up beyond that it was really funny she told me you know where the phase we have a different thing that you want to be when you grow up every week. Sure. And recently to Tyler Shigran she was watching when I was in charge when they're less rules around the screens. Yeah. Some streamers who do video games but

like for kids like kids games streamers and she was like I want to be a YouTuber. I want to be a streamer and I was like oh you mean like me and she was like no like not like that. Video games. The kids YouTube and she's like she almost thinks there's two different YouTube. Even like I run some other YouTube for boring people and like she wants to be a YouTuber on the cool YouTube. Yeah. So anyway. All right. I'm a 17 year old who closely follows politics.

That means I was born during Obama's first term and really only started following the news during

recommendations for things to read? Watch the list into. I'd love to get an understanding of

last 20 to 50 years that is deeper from when I get in school. Love the podcast and other content across the bulwark bring back FY pod, Luke. Luke is a scientist and you're all listening to that.

“Shout out Luke. Give him some stuff. We're grown-ups. I think that decent number of people”

decided that they should start carrying my politics either in 2016 or 2024. So I think this is useful for even our non-gency listeners. Look if you haven't young young men go watch idiocracy because that was meant as a joke. Like that was a comedy with some slight, you know, cultural commentary. But I think if Mike Judge had realized he was making a documentary about 2024, but actually the one thing I wanted to comment on is the I want more than what I'm learning

in school. I don't know what they're giving you in school, but I am begging you actually all people. Go read the Federalist Papers. Go read the Constitution. Like go read Martin Luther King. I have a dream speech. Go literally read letters from Birmingham. There's a bunch of things. You have foundational texts that seem to have been lost to history. Those are the ones probably people read, but the Federalist Papers is a good one. I was going to do more modern politics.

Okay. Our guy, John Hammond's book on the 2021 campaign game change. Yes, so good.

“Unbelievable. I like it just watched the movie. You go back to the 1984. If you want to really”

learn out what it takes, try the best political book ever written about the 1994. That's unbelievable. That's really good. Richard Ben Kramer. Oh, now you're getting me going. A face in the crowd is a great movie that you should go watch. Sorry. Yeah, that's okay. Our guy, Mark Lieber, which is this town. This town is so good. It is really kind of a time capsule of the pre-Trump DC accesses, which I really loved. Well, that's one that came to mind. I was going to suggest this because it's fake,

but it's Bill Clinton and it's just such a good movie. Primary colors was so good. Primary colors was the best. What a good movie, man. What's his name from a landman? Billy Bob Thornton. Billy Bob Thornton. Great, great turn by Billy Bob Thornton as the region cage in there. Primary colors is an excellent movie. I've watched it over and over again over the years. We are very long. So we're going to skip through the 10 questions.

“We'll do a 10 bonus 10 mailbag later. I will do two more. Okay. There we go. One is the music one.”

We've already been talking about our kids and the car. What's a family car ride like? Who controls the tunes? Do we have the same musical taste? Do the kids get to pick? Are they introducing us to our test, or vice versa? Which car ride like? I kept this one because I want to know it's like a long, well family car. I will say we listen to a lot of Imagine Dragons, which is the boys. Although recently my younger one I got at least into Zack Brown a little bit.

And so we're on Zack Brown. The other thing I introduced them to is newsies. And then I took them to see Oliver when we were in London because I I see boys singing and dancing. My goal for them. I used to think I would want kids that were athletes, but what I really want is musical theater kids. So guys. I'm just no, you want to get whatever. Doesn't that part doesn't matter to me. I just saw a stat. The other thing. It was like with the gayest and straightest majors. I know it's like

business. It was like 98% straight and musical theater was 27% straight. Yeah, that's it. But I

want them to because my kid now like wears like the little newsies like paper boy hat. It's amazing.

One of my proudest parenting moments is that we had a complete ban on kids' bops. She doesn't even know that kids' bops exist. We succeeded in that front. So we don't we just list a pop music mostly. You know, and the guy now I'll put on the stuff she does like Oasis. But she's requesting lately Olivia Rodriguez as a new record and she likes Keshia's record, which has a lot of awesome cusses. She was singing, this is my second dad car storage. So we're

just singing. She also sang one of the Olivia songs has curses in it and she was singing in the lyrics with my dad and the car in the back seat the other day. Did pop I'll get mad? No, it's just, you know, he's trying to play it cool. Yeah. You know, it's a different child of mine. My parents were keeping a pretty tight leash on my income. Mine too, really tight leash. Whereas, you know, Zach Brown got my toes in the water. My ass in the sand is a favorite

line. Kids like that. We used to say ass in the sand. Final questions for you, anonymous Kenyan alum. I had the great fortune to argue with Sarah Longwell in quest for justice every day. My

freshman year at Kenyan. I thought she was deeply thoughtful. And I've always helped her in

high regard. I want to know what books, especially novels, have been meaningful to Sarah, since we left Gambier or of any books we had to read at Kenyan still sticks with her. They made us read things fall apart and so many classes. That's great one. Yeah, but I still think

So, this thank you. Hey, hey, quest for justice. What was that? So, that was our freshman. So,

“you know, I went to Kenyan. I think I was going to be an English major. I wanted to be a poet when I”

grew up, a little note fact. And I took quest for justice, which is like the introred of political

science class. Had the most incredible professor named Pam Jensen. And I became a political

science major. And so, like, changed my life. And the things that I read in quest for justice, there's a couple of things. One of them was the Federalist Papers. It was a close. It's like one of the early things. This is a class or a club. It was a class. It was like a year long entry to what political science would be. And it turned a lot of us into political science majors.

This person from this class. I don't know if this person also stayed a political science major.

But we did read Chinoa Chabbe's things fall apart, read the Federalist Papers. Do you know what? Actually, I remember from Quest was we read Francis Fukuyamos essay and of history. And now I know Francis Fukuyamos, like he's like in our world of democracy people.

“But that had much malign essay, but it's still holding back. You have to read it again.”

It holds up actually. People, this is where headlines bad. The headline is bad. But if you read the whole thing, it actually is like incredibly fresh and awful. It's kind of like hit Ronny's up head. Let Detroit go bankrupt. There was a good point in that. Headlines is not good. Headlines are important. Any other readings? I just read the corresponding. If anybody is, this is just now I'm just going to throw out

fiction that I like. Correspondent is wonderful. If you haven't read it most of reach. Doner right now by John Williams, which I'm loving. This is a doorky one. But if you haven't read history of the Peloponnesian War by Thucydides, that one who said it is. Go read some Thucydides. It will give you some things to think about in terms of modern foreign policy. The city's trap has held up compared to the end of history. Speaking of books,

how to eat an elephant? One voter to tie. It's right there. I'm number three in the

“acknowledgements. Number three, which was pretty important to me. Yes. I was outside the top five.”

We were bumping you from our cart like today. In the podcast. Glad I'm in there. People should go pre-order the book. They should go pre-order the book. It's coming out soon and we're going to be at 6th and I on September 3rd and then we're going to be JVL and I are going to be at New York.

What is it? Ninety second street. Why in New York? There's still some room left in the balcony.

Maybe I'll come. All right. Everybody, John Monday. I'll be back in New Orleans. We'll be seeing you all then. Thanks for doing this, Sarah. You bet. Good to see you, Tim. I've become not the man that I was. The board daily is brought to you thanks to the work of lead producer Katie Cooper, associate producer Anzley Skipper, and with video editing by Dante DeChico and audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.