Susan Rice on Trump’s Lawlessness, U.S. Allies, and the Economic Fallout

Hey everybody, welcome back to the Findout podcast. We have a great, great guest for you today. Someone that has the experience of many people all wound up into one person. She was the Assistant Secretary of State

for African Affairs. And I actually believe was the youngest

Assistant Secretary of State Department, never.

She was also the 27th Ambassador to the United Nations. She was the 23rd National Security Advisor.

“And I believe the second one for President Obama.”

And then, went over and was the 22nd Director of the Domestic Policy Council at the White House under Joe Biden. This is Ambassador Susan Rice. Thank you Ambassador for joining us today.

It's great to be with you guys. So you are one of the few people who have sort of sat at the top of government in both foreign policy and domestic policy. So we want to talk about on the domestic side first.

And getting your thoughts on everything that is happening with ICE and with these insane, masked agents coming and snatching people away. Did you ever in your life imagine that the US government would be used in this way?

Honestly, no. I mean, what we are seeing is American federal law enforcement acting like Gestapo. And literally busting into American citizens' homes, ripping people out of their beds in their underwear, throwing them out onto the street,

often beating their heads in in the process by masked men. And then throwing them in cars and disappearing them, where they can't access their lawyers, can't communicate with their families. Nobody knows where they are, or ripped out of their cars,

or shot dead in the street for exercising their first amendment

rights. I mean, it's absolutely insane. So no, I am a realist. And I understand that when the American people sent a Donald Trump back to the White House that it was going to be very, very bad.

And you know, he was explicit. He said, you know, I'm going to use the military against the enemy within. So maybe we haven't seen the worst of this yet.

“That's what I was going to ask actually.”

My first question every time we start talking about, like, this is, do you believe we're on a path more to get substantially worse? Or that maybe we're doing enough to sort of stop them in their tracks? And this is the worst it will get.

I think it's going to get worse. Wonderful. Sorry. That's OK. That's all I asked the question.

But the good news is that I think the American people are waking up. Nobody voted for the Constitution to be violated on a daily basis and used as a weapon against the American people. Some people thought they were voting for lower egg prices.

Or, you know, sealing the Southern border. But nobody thought they were voting for Americans being stripped of their ability to assemble, to speak freely, to carry a lawful weapon to have their homes protected from illegal search and seizure for the amendment.

Like they're violating every single one of the bill of rights almost. And people are pissed and they should be because nobody wants that.

“So I think Minnesota and the people of Minnesota,”

particularly in Minneapolis, have been extraordinary and they're coming together peacefully on a sustained way to say, no, that's not what we're for. And I hope, and I'm starting to believe that around the country, people are waking up to the crazy, vicious illegal actions

of ice and border patrol. So there's one question. I think that's all exactly right. There's one question that we keep hearing from magas supporters

in particular that are saying, well, Obama deported 3 million

undocumented, or I don't remember what the number was. And that's way more than Donald Trump. Can you for our audience as an expert explain the difference between the Obama immigration policies and what the Trump administration is doing today?

Well, I will try, but to be clear, I did not work as national security advisors.

that I held under the Obama administration on immigration and immigration enforcement.

But I think the bottom line is that what President Obama did

was to go after people who had committed crimes and violent crimes in particular. People for whom there was a final order of removal after they'd gone through a judicial process. And remove them.

“And frankly, I think that's what we should be doing.”

We do need a secure border, absolutely. And we do need to enforce our laws. And when somebody has had the benefit of going through all of their asylum claims, all of the legal process and have been found after an extended process,

which frankly takes years often, that they do not qualify to be here

and their issued final orders of removal

and or they have committed a violent crime, they should be removed. But that's in a very targeted specific way with the authority of the court. And with a proper warrant, that is not what is happening today.

What is happening today is literally profiling people based on their race or based on their language

“or based on their perceived orage place of origin.”

And they're just sweeping people up and disappearing them without any form of due process. And many of the people who happen to be swept up are American citizens or people who are in this country lawfully, who are granted legally the right to be here

and yet they're being disappeared.

And when you see kids being taken off the streets and put in the horrible detention centers with disease and all kinds of lack of support and resources, it's horrific. Families being separated, American people

have been clear that if you look at every single poll that this shit has gone way too far. - Yeah, we saw there was the measles outbreak in the Dilly facility in Texas where Liam Ramos was being kept despite having no deportation

in order for him or anyone in his family. Susan, I want to ask you, because you've had experience in the executive branch before and after the creation of DHS and ICE. And that I think is really remarkable.

It's very important for people to recognize how young ICE is. And when you look at the tactics you've described, when you look at the rights that they've trampled

“and then you look at, I think it was a federal judge”

in Indiana ruling on the Minneapolis occupation or invasion, she wasn't sure if she had the power to require them to leave. So my question to you is, when you look at what ICE is doing, I don't know if you're an abolish ICE or a reformized person,

but is there a foundation that can work for ICE in the United States, given our federal laws that have been passed by Congress and that have been vetted by the Supreme Court or as ICE fundamentally built on a broken foundation

and doesn't need to be abolished? - I don't know if it's built on a fundamentally broken foundation. I think it has been abused by Dal Trump, in both of his terms and turned into something that it hasn't been in need and be.

You know, people weren't freaking out about ICE for the most part, during the Obama administration, during the Biden administration. You know, they asked there were those who said, "You know, they're still deporting people."

Well, you know, there are people who need to be deported. When people commit violent crimes, when people have final orders of removal, there is a, they have then exhausted their legal remedies and there needs to be some targeted ability to remove them.

But remove them with basic respect for human rights and human dignity, consistent with the rule of law in a court order, consistent with the constitution and none of that is what's happening now. And that's why it's, you know,

and what Trump has said a tone at the top and he's put, you know, crazy, cruel people, like Christy Nome and Stephen Miller in charge

- We know. - The ins and more dollars into it. And basically said you can do what the hell you want. He literally said, Trump, that these people have complete immunity. Well, there's no such thing legally as complete immunity.

But what he has given them in effect is complete impunity. And that's the problem. And now, and he's also recruited people into ICE without proper vetting, obviously without sufficient training.

And, you know, some of these folks, I'm sure are, you know, proud boys are the equivalent. - Yeah. - And so that is the problem.

The problem is not, in my opinion,

necessarily, the institution of having, you know, a portion of federal law enforcement dedicated to enforcing our laws. You know, but these people are not doing that. They are being lawless themselves.

- Right, right, and, you know, so that's our entrance. - Yeah, no, thank you for that. This is, because this has been on my mind is like, is ICE fundamentally broken or, or is there something that's salvageable?

You've seen, I mean, I just want to clear, how we salvage it now is challenge, right? 'Cause it's been so permeated by this culture of impunity and by people who really have no business being part of any kind of federal law enforcement.

Sorry, go ahead.

- Well, no, and so the follow-up question was more like,

we had immigration enforcement and national security before DHS and ICE. We had different organizations, right? ICE came around to DHS and ICE were created after 9/11 and, you know, the beginning of the war on terror.

And I think people are conflating the existence of ICE and I don't,

“I'm not in this conversation, but I think people think,”

like, you have to abolish ICE or you have to have what it is now. And if we abolish ICE, we have no immigration enforcement or we have no laws that, you know, we have no other way of dealing with this,

but you've seen firsthand, I mean, you worked in the Clinton administration. - But not on this issue, again, that was not happening in the court. So, you know, I can't claim an apples to apples experience.

- But we've had national security, I mean, we've had to deal with this before. It's just, it just looked different. So, presumably it could look different in the future whether we call it ICE and we replace it with the,

we need to, we need to, we need to arm of the federal law enforcement that does what we call interior enforcement, right? But that interior enforcement needs to be targeted. It needs to be focused on people who have committed violent crimes or who have whose legal process

has been exhausted and they have final orders of removal. That's not what we're dealing with here. - Yeah, I have a question of this too, actually, because, you know, one thing you often hear is, you know, Republicans behind closed doors

are very unhappy with this, but out in public they'll keep backing Trump on this stuff. You've been in federal government for a very long time. I'm sure you've amassed a number of relationships with Republicans.

Do you have that same belief system where most Republicans are actually against what's going on, but they don't speak out about it,

“because I think that speaks to Rich's point of,”

well, can we salvage this and turn this into something else? If most Republicans behind closed doors actually feel like this is too much, and we could reform ice, that's one thing. So do you feel like you can--

- I don't know, I don't have a good enough feel for what Republicans are thinking and saying behind closed doors. I mean, the Republicans are not the Republicans that, you know, I even I worked with in the Obama minutes. - Right.

- They're very, very different, many of them, very different. You know, there's traditional conservative Republicans who have a respect for the Constitution and the rule of law and states rights

and believe that the most important thing

in many respects is the government staying out of your-- - Yeah, it's the opposite. - You're living room, you're house, you're property, and this is completely the opposite. But the Republicans have morphed,

and some of them are chicken, some of them are immoral, some of them have no respect for the Constitution and others of them believe that this is exactly the right thing to do. And so, you know, what you're basically saying is,

how many of them are falling to the chicken category? - I think a lot.

“- And I think we're seeing, it's hard to segment them, right?”

- That's true. - But it's at least most of the traditional conservatives,

on this or many other atrocities.

- Yeah. - But there are few, and you know, you got to give them credit. You got to give massive credit, you got to give Don Bacon credit, you got to give Tom Tillis credit,

you got to give Lisa McCowski credit, and you know, I'm running out of-- - Yeah, I think you hit them all. - We had them all. - Well, because I mean, I'm from Maine,

and so like, you know, I-- - You notice I did not say shoes of fall. - Yes, it's a coin, but that I'm ambassador. These guys have heard me scream about this to all I'm blue in the face that there is this myth out there

that Susan Collins is some sort of moderate. But she hasn't done anything on this. And in fact, after Minnesota, they went to Maine, Maine, which is, by the way, the white estate in the country, which the guys have heard me say forever.

“And I think there was a stat where they routed up like”

100 people, six of them, had criminal convictions. And all it's doing is making the immigrants that we have in Maine, especially like we have a Somali population in Lewiston, all their-- they're shutting their doors,

which means they're not going to the corner grocery store. They're not buying things, they're not going to work. It's just-- it's wreaking havoc. And so that leads me to another question, which obviously you are well-adaptant answering

is like, well, now I want to find a way to say this. Not so ridiculous, but I'm going to say it anyways. How depth, like, the moral question is one thing, right? It is a bad, it is a moral. This is not what America is about.

It is illegal. But from an economic perspective, this doesn't strike me as making any sense, either. And can you speak a little bit about how damaging this could be not only for our standing as what we represent,

but from our own pocketbooks? Well, I mean, you can see it happening real time in Minnesota, right? Small businesses, large businesses, both, are suffering.

Their employees aren't coming to work. And these are obviously people who are here legally, documented at US citizens who may look like me, or look Latino, and who are afraid to go into work. You have customers that are afraid to go patronize places

that they were accustomed to patronizing. You have all kinds of suppliers to these businesses in the same boat.

“I mean, I think I heard a statistic this morning, actually,”

where many apples is losing $10 to $15 million a week

in business. And it's probably much more than that, because it's shutting down everything. So it's incredibly bad for the economy. You know, our agricultural economy depends enormously

on immigrant labor. Again, many of whom are here on temporary work permits that allow them to do agricultural work. You're from Maine, I'm very familiar with Maine. I've got family ties to Maine, and I know throughout New England,

but also in other places that have a seasonal economy, so many of the seasonal workers are people coming in, again, on temporary work permits from Europe, Latin America, the Caribbean, all over the place, doing cleaning hotel rooms and serving in restaurants

and doing all the things that the seasonal economy requires. And they too are, the number of visas being issued to them are down, the risk of coming to the US is now much higher.

“You know, Canadians are boycotting our country”

and drones, which affects not just border states, but you know, the snowboard states. I mean, it goes on and on, the economic ramifications. Well, and there's also the fact that tourism was down dramatically this summer,

and because these other countries are frankly afraid to come here, I mean, there was a storm to come. - No, I mean, I'll give you a particular example, but like we all know the band Queen, while their guitarist Brian May came out and said,

we will not, I mean, they're old, so maybe they weren't gonna do it anyways, but like we're not done at tour in the United States because it's not safe anymore. These are banned, this is with security and everything.

I mean, these operations are actually multi-million dollar

operations and all these people are like, nope. I'm not coming here. - There's both people who may feel it's not safe. And then there are people who say, "Oh, why am I gonna spend my money over there?"

When they're acting in such an abhorrent way. Like, well, the way we treat them, right? I mean, this Greenland thing,

but like, these international endeavors, I guess I don't have a pattern to call these things. Is it hard? What did you say? - Adventures.

“- Adventures, yes, I think we're all being too kind,”

but like, they have real world ramifications, not only for our standing globally,

but then the fact that like, first of all,

all those Greenlanders were like, "Hell, no, we don't wanna do this." And like, we've pissed off all of like Europe over this. And like, we didn't actually, apparently there was like some sort of deal,

but I don't think we ended up getting anything, other than just pissing them off and signing a piece of paper that said nothing, and now, I guess, it's over. - I mean, the piece of paper's been signed.

- Right, yeah. - Is that why you got anything? - I think they pointed at the old papers that were signed after World War II, as they were like, dumbass, like, look at this.

- Go back. - No, I, you know, I think, yeah, what we got was a potentially mortal wound to NATO, where the message we conveyed to our NATO allies was that not only can we not be relied on,

we are, in fact, you know, a potential aggressor.

- Yes. - And, you know, you don't only have to worry about Russian China and now you gotta worry about the United States as well. And meanwhile, you know, because you have committed to uphold your article five

responsibilities and attack on one is an attack on all. And said that you would, you know, support Denmark in its sovereignty over Greenland, Trump's, you know, threatens to hit him again with even higher tariffs.

- Right. - So he's using, you know, an economic cudgel against our allies for upholding our alliance. - I think he was, so I have to ask you a very important question before we, sorry.

- So, so you have worked, I believe, for three presidents, President Clinton, Obama, and Biden. - Correct. - Did any of them ever ask you, whether you thought we should acquire Greenland?

(laughing) - No. - Okay. - Just checking.

- I just wanted it out there.

- I just wanted it out there. - He's obsessed with it. - I don't know if anybody saw when he posted on true social media this morning or last night when he was very recently,

but he posted an AIMH of him sitting down in the oval office with all these different European leaders across him and a map behind him. And on the map is the United States flag over America, Canada, Greenland, and Venezuela.

So he's making it very clear that his aspirations are to advance our territory by any means necessary and just have all our European allies sit there and not along with it, it's absurd concept, but he's doubling down on it.

I mean, so my question is, "Do you, what are the odds that you think he'll actually attempt to follow through

“and I think this because he's obviously obsessed”

with it from a PR perspective?" But what do you mean, follow it? What do you mean? - It's actually attempts to annex Greenland in some way, shape or form, like start with that,

something like that. - I don't mean to be difficult, Zach, but I don't want to ask an answer and emphasize question of this significant thing. - The militant you're getting a poll.

- Yes. - Do you, what do I think of the odds of him physically dating Greenland? - Yes. - Not zero, I mean, I give it 20%,

woo, that's terrible. - I don't think it's likely. - Right. - But primarily, because he has said it's not likely. I mean, I just don't mean, but I don't, I don't, you can't put these kinds of things past him.

- That's not a lie. - It's an obvious aspiration, but I'm curious, because we hear this, this is a threat that's been made, what does something like that even look like?

Like, what is the military functionally doing if he were to execute that 20% here and go and do that? - I don't want to get into speculating about that. - It's a terrifying puzzle, like 60,000 people

live there, right? They don't want them, so then it's a war. - But you see a war thing. Here's the important thing. The American people don't want it.

- Yes, of course. - Okay, nobody, people are not in favor of using military force to take over Greenland. Not Republicans, not Democrats, not independents, and people do not want to blow up NATO,

and that would blow up NATO in a heartbeat.

“- I think that's something that John Thun”

and maybe even Mike Johnson might act, or like probably not Mike Johnson himself, but I bet John Thun and enough Republicans in the House in the Senate, if he tried to draw that line,

I think they would say now we're not crossing that. - Well, they did say, in effect, you know, and I don't think that was two things I believe have potentially caused Trump to slow his role on Greenland. One was the articulated opposition

of a significant number of Republicans and Congress.

and the bond market of the reaction to this insanity. And you know, those are two things that,

that, you know, at least the second of the two,

which Trump has some history of crediting to some extent. So, and then, you know, the third thing is,

“I think the European said, you know, finally,”

"Fuck no way." - Right, right, right. - Thank God. - We're not down with this, and we're not gonna roll over and play dead, and if you push us on it, you wanna trade war,

you get a trade war. - Yeah, right, well, I wanna get, 'cause I assume you know President Macron, personally, the President of France, and there was this stunning text message

that got leaked out, which I assume they did, because I doubt Trump would, where he literally is like pleading with Trump on a whole host of things. It's basically like, we could do great things in Ukraine.

We could do these things, but he's like, "I have no idea what you're doing with Greenland." Like, "I have no idea." Which you don't usually see this level of candor. And we knew that the Europeans were frustrated,

but to me, the fact that he was like, "What are you doing?" Just shows the fact that like, there isn't really a strategy here other than a cause chaos, but like, also, why are we pissing off our allies like this? Like, it boggles the mind whether it's for trade reasons

or for assistance in Ukraine or whatever. Like, we're just raining chaos down all these people, which is going to make us weaker and hurt our economy. It makes no sense to me. But Trump has no regard for our allies,

and they understand that now.

“And that's why what he's done is so damaging.”

Even, you know, he never does anything regarding Greenland.

He is conveyed to our closest allies that he is a threat to them. - Yes, that's true. And it's not just the relationship with the allies from a governmental perspective.

It's also the people who follow Trump and they're perspective on what's right. I have people in my life who have voted for Trump. And I hear the multiple times say, "Who cares about our allies?" They don't matter.

And it's like bad. It's down stream is a very bad danger. - Exactly. Explain to me what their rationale is. - I get most people get most people get most people get.

Most people get. You're safer with friends than without friends. Like just basic, you know, human nature. Would you rather have no friends in your life, in your world, or would you rather have friends who, when the stuff hits

the fan are down with you? - Yeah, I mean, you and I are aligned on that. I think speaking for them, their perspective is their very nationalist isolationist folks that they sort of are through the mindset of,

it doesn't matter if we have allies or not, we can self sustain, which is not true, especially in a globalized market that we live within the globalized world. We live within, it's not true.

But I think you're hearing, I'm hearing a lot more of public and scope. I don't care about any of this, because it only matters that happens to America. They can't conceptualize the fact.

But we can't, I care what happens to America. - Yes, they can.

“- And I believe so much in the importance”

and the power of our alliances. - Yes. - Like, you know, in a dangerous world

where, you know, you've got powerful adversaries,

like Russia and China, you know, the reason why Russia and China want nothing more than to break our system of alliances is because they know it is like the secret sauce of our superpower.

- Yes. - It is something we have that they don't have. - Absolutely. - And it matters enormously whether we're in time by Indonesia or Europe or wherever.

And it is because they understand that when we have friends and allies who are willing to be by our side when the stuff hits the fan, like on 9/11. - Right.

- And a only time NATO has ever had to invoke article five and attack on one is an attack on all. Is when we were hit by Al-Qaeda on 9/11 and the allies came to our defense and fought with us for 20 years in Afghanistan.

- Yeah. - And so the idea that we are safe or stronger or healthier in any way shape or form when it is, you know, fortress America, isolation is no allies and hated and distrusted by everyone else

in the world. - Yeah, I'd like to have a debate with whoever you're talking to. - I didn't trust me. I spent hours at them, you get nowhere. It doesn't matter how much that you make.

- All right, what? No. - But they're fundamentally, they're wrong. - Not thinking rationally. - Well, they're not.

Look, let's remember, these are the same people that are like, well, Putin's not so bad, you know, and it's how they arrive there, I have no idea. So they'll do, I think we to remember at these kinds of people is they'll do whatever it takes

to contort themselves and do a position where Trump is still okay. And I think that's a huge percentage of why you see this. And they have this whole ecosystem, right, of media.

And you would never leave this right-wing bubble, right?

Like they are told that we are all evil, you know, and they push the horribly racist birther lies, that's why Trump, how Trump got this big as he did at the beginning was pushing racial lies about Barack Obama. And it just went from there.

And now that like, I, like, we all now 'cause we're swimming in the space, we can see some of that world. And it's like, you, it is shocking what people will post and people will believe.

But one thing I want to ask you though, 'cause I think this is where I think we could do a better job of explaining is, okay, we piss off Europe to the point where they want to retaliate against us. Could they cripple our economy if they wanted to?

- I think look, here is as a block,

our largest trading partner, right?

We can do enormous damage to each other. - Right. - That would be mutually destructive.

“You remember that used to be in the nuclear climate,”

mutually assured distraction, yep. - Yep. - Yeah, that's what we're talking about. So, you know, we can hurt them, make in hurt us, nobody benefits from that.

- Right, right, that's what I mean. - Well, that's a crazy part, right? These are our allies, like these are people that we have stood with since most of them since war were two or one, and then the rest

since war were two, but like if they were to call our debt, for example, right, like that could cause, like a massive, massive chaos in our economy, right? Like if they got pushed too hard, and I think, you know, Zach, for Europe,

the people that you talk about, like they think of the like the national security element of it,

which is obviously crucial, but they don't make

the connection of like, well, Europe is not just this little weak spot over across the pond, right, that speak different languages, and we don't think or as tough as we are, which is also not true. But like, they are vital, like,

and we need to be working with these people, because otherwise, like they look elsewhere, right, which leaves us, alone, well, that's my question for all of you. - Well, that's exactly the benefit, like for China, right?

“- Right, right, that's what they want, right?”

- Yeah, exactly, well, that's why other, - That's what China wants, right, that's what China wants, giving them by alienating Europe. - Why do you think he's doing that? I know I'm trying to make you get into the mind

of an absolute madman more on, but like, it just doesn't, like, it doesn't make any sense, other than to just break things. To me, at least. - I think my summary statement

is that domestically and internationally, Trump wants to take the United States back to the 19th century. You know, where, so internationally, that's a world in which, you know, you had great powers with their spheres of influence.

You know, and, you know, economic barriers between these spheres. And the great powers ran rampant in their spheres. Now, we are global superpower, or at least we were until a year ago.

Meaning that, you know, we weren't just playing in one little sphere, regional sphere, which, you know, as Trump defines, is essentially, you know, the Americas, including Greenland and Canada. You know, that's what he wants us to be predominant in.

And let China have its way in Asia and let Russia have its way in Europe, as long as it doesn't, you know, affect my ability to do what I want to do in my sphere. That's a very 19th century concept, but add to it a different 19th century concept

of, you know, Robert Baron style wealth accumulation. You know, so it, it is also taking, you know, kleptocracy to a whole new level. But again, I can, you know, I can rape and pillage in my own sphere

and the other great powers can do what they want in theirs. And I get mine. And it's mine for me and mine for my family and mine for my cronies.

“So that's what I think this is about internationally.”

He is not interested in what is serving the US national security interests or the US national economic interests for that matter at the end of the day. He's interested in what deals he can cut and what power he can amass in his sphere.

- I have won, how much, if he continues down this path, how well positioned is China becoming essentially to come in and sort of swoop up what were, you know, kind of shedding with Trump's terrible policies. Because, you know, to me, I think,

obviously, China has adopted a very different structure of how they look at international relations. They've gone from being very adversarial adversarial in a lot of ways, but they're capitalizing on being sort of a pseudo communist capitalist state

So how much of this can China release swoop up

and put them in a much greater position

“to just take over as the number one superpower.”

- Well, China can't believe it's look. - Right, right. - It goes to, you know, the global fora, whether it's Davos or, you know, the United Nations, and, you know, all of a sudden,

it is able to portray itself as the upholder of the rules-based international order, which is a joke, but it, you know, at least they're not physically trying to acquire, you know, other countries sovereign states

around the world with the, you know, accept Taiwan. - Yeah. - But, you know, they are reaping the spoils of the United States retreat from global leadership,

from the, you know, the destruction of USAID

and the voice of America and, you know, are pull back on so many aspects of our, you know, intelligence apparatus. I mean, we're doing a whole host of things. - Yeah.

- That are part of this global retreat. And China is literally filling the vacuum. - Yeah. - And, and portraying itself as predictable, stable, you respecting the sovereignty of other countries.

And, you know, and lining its pocket with markets that we should be competing in. - Right. Well, I want to, I want to turn to back back to domestic issues here,

because we only got a couple more minutes with you. But, obviously, you know, you mentioned earlier,

“and I think we all agree that most Americans don't want this.”

Donald Trump's numbers are a bismal, somewhere in the mid-30s. We keep seeing over performances of all these special elections across the country, one in Texas. There was actually one in Louisiana.

This weekend, that was a 38-point swing, little house seat. But, so for the mid-terms this year, obviously things look pretty good for Democrats, but how concerned are you about their being, 'cause we get a lot of questions about this,

free and fair elections in November? - I'm concerned. - Yeah. - And I'm concerned because, you know, Trump is telling us as he often does, what he aims to do.

You know, the effort at redistricting, the effort at trying to steal the voter information from various states to its sort, Minnesota for its voter rolls, stealing the ballots from 2020 in Fulton County. You know, that wasn't about the 2020 election primarily.

That's about trying to create doubt in the integrity of our elections and use that as an excuse to take over elections in jurisdictions. Just as he said, nationalized the elections

“and some 15 places, because I think they're fearful”

that they can't win in a free and fair election. Now, so what do we have to do about that? Doesn't mean we give up and say, okay, well forget it, there's not gonna be an election. We just, you know, we have to do two things at once.

We've got to compete and win with the best candidates and the best policies that serve the American people, working on and being committed to the things that people care about from affordability, they're lost to health care, you know,

housing and rental costs, way too high, electricity costs, way too high, food prices still, way too high. He's done nothing about any of that. And we've got to compete and win those elections and win them with big margins on the one hand.

And at the same time, we need to see what it is

he's trying to do, understand it as a critical threat

and stand up through the courts on the streets, you know, and make sure that people have the opportunity to vote in security. It is illegal for ICE to be at polling stations. You, the law is explicit.

You may not have armed military or other armed people within any proximity of a polling site. You know, if they try to do that, we got to defeat it. And we've got to defeat it in the courts and on the streets peacefully

and help those who feel vulnerable, you know, to feel safe as they go to the polls. We've just got to, we've got to see what they're doing, not be naive about it, understand it, combat it. And at the same time, you know, do what we would normally do,

but better than we would normally do it and fight and compete to win in these elections. - Susan, I got a question. What the hell was Tulsi Gabbard doing in Georgia? - I have no idea.

Is there any-- - I said, I can tell you this. Isn't nothing, nothing on the level. - So when you are in, I'm gonna do this again, like I did before. So we'll just go with the President Obama's term

which is not the same job that she has, but is in the same sphere.

“Did President Obama ever ask you to go into a state”

and secure ballots from a previous election?

- No, he never asked anybody on his national security

and he never had anything to do with domestic elections or domestic policy for that matter. - Right, well, Ambassador Susan Rice, thank you very much. I actually was saving one bit at the end

because you won't remember this, but I will. But it turns out, you're not such a bad basketball player. And I'm gonna tell you, I was at the interior department in for five years and I was at the let's play. Was I what I was with the Michelle?

- No, it was in Title IX. - Title IX, that's right, Title IX event. And I actually spoke to you briefly this 15 years ago,

I looked a lot different, but you have not got a job shot.

- Thank you, but guess what? Here's the real thing, this was an anniversary of Title IX event, right? - Yep, that is exactly what I was. - He did it in the interior department,

I remember this well and I had with me,

“I brought with me, I believe both my daughter and my niece,”

Kiki Rice. And Kiki Rice was like, you know, tiny back then, she's now one of the best point guards in the nation in the starting point guard at UCLA. - Wow, that's awesome.

- And, you know, a WMBA prospect, she's a senior.

And, you know, look her up, Kiki Rice,

that you see it, right? - Did she get all of her skills from you? - She did not, she got them from her parents. (laughing) Which is why she's good.

- Well, it was, it was a fun event and, 'cause Ken Salazar was a basketball player, I somehow was his basketball guy and maybe on another episode I'll tell all the stories about him, you know, trying to get Reggie love,

who is the President Obama's body guy who played a Duke. He would bring him over sometimes when we were playing people that talk competitively guy. - Oh, he's completely over it, interior. - I know, I actually, he played right before I started

and then he used to come with his girls in the winter. So I was the guy with the secret service walking them around, but it was on weekends. So I was, I missed my one opportunity,

“but I think it's a play basketball at the White House one time.”

I guess that court's now been bulldozed over, but it was a fun time, but that was actually one of the only atrocities that Obama committed in my judgment, which was to turn the tennis court, 'cause I'm also a major tennis player.

That's my real sport into a basketball court as well as a tennis court. So you put all those lines down that screwed up the tennis. - That is true. - True. - Should have just done what some other people might have done,

which is just build a basketball court. - That's true. - Yeah, both. - Do I know why don't have both? - Between the tennis court and the Brown suit. I, or the Tans suit.

- Tans suit. - I'm not sure how I feel. - I like to dance, I like to dance suit. - I like to dance suit. - I like to dance suit. - I like to dance. - The basketball court on top of the tennis court

was no bueno. - Yeah, well, well, I'm glad we ended with something good, 'cause obviously there's a lot of dark around, but Ambassador, thank you very much for joining us. Where could people, do you want to plug?

Where people can follow you? - Yeah, I'm on Twitter, I'm Ambassador Rice, and I'm on Instagram and Substack as well. - Great, well everybody go follow. Thank you again.

Thank you for all your contributions to this country. We really appreciate it and hopefully we'll have you back soon. - Thanks, gentlemen, good to be with you. Take care. - Take care.