#2535 - Andrew Wilson

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- How you doing? - Great, great, great. We're just talking about peace of mind and dealing with cooks.

“Is there anybody who argues online more than you do?”

Oh yeah, you might be the number one guy who I see in clips like constantly getting an arguments with people online. I'm not sure that there is anybody who takes on more debates yearly,

high and low profile than I do. - Yeah, I mean, even casual ones. - Correct.

- It's like you're always sparring.

It's like you're always, you know, you're always playing games. - I think that just keeps you sharp. - For sure. - Gapes you sharp if you're,

so I also have this rule that, you know, there's like the cloud game online, right, all these people want to play the cloud game. - What is exactly the cloud game? - It's not like you don't have a big enough follower

account for me to respond to you. You don't have a big enough audience for me to discuss things with you, you know, things like that and it's like, I hate that. - That seems pretty silly.

- It is silly and some of the best debates I've ever had with guys who had like four followers on X and they're like, let's go to this X space and talk and I'll hop in there with them and I'm like, an hour later I go, I had a lot of good stuff to say.

- A lot of people out there. And oftentimes those ones who don't have a lot of followers because they're not sucked into the social media web. They're just out there thinking and doing things, living their life.

They'll have a lot of fucking interesting people out there

that you never hear from.

And a lot of not interesting people for the hear from them constantly all the time. - It's like the politician thing, you know? It's like we were talking about that the other day, like there's this lady that's running for something,

she run it for governor Wisconsin. Does that what it is? - And she was just talking about how Thanksgiving hurts people. - Thank you. - That's all right.

- Yeah, yeah. I don't know her background. I think it's the same lady at one point times she was in a mental institution. - Why is this a grunt?

- Is this not shock me? - Doesn't shock me now. But this was the point where saying nobody wants to be the fucking governor and the people that do are,

there's a high percentage of cooks. - Yeah, power attracts strange people. - Sometimes it attracts good people. - Yes, occasionally. - But often those are the people who go in

and they want to change it. Like the idea that they have is, look, I'm trying to run for the right reasons 'cause I actually want to change how this works. But they're few and far between you.

- And they get killed. (laughing) - I don't get killed, or they get run off. - A lot of them just get involved in, they're normal day-to-day life, you know,

from 20 years prior. Now suddenly, that's coming up, you know, and they have to defend themselves against criticisms,

that they never would have believed

that they would have to defend themselves. - Right.

“- And so, character assassination, I think,”

takes a lot of the good actors out. They don't want to deal with the character assassination. - Well, it seems like they want total compliance on both sides, on both parties. Total compliance with the party.

And if they think that you're gonna be some outside a rebel that's gonna take over the fuck you. - Well, you kind of, I think you kind of have to have that a little bit, though, because if you got universal suffrage, necessarily, everything converges into a two party system.

So, as suffrage expanded throughout history, you saw the emergence of parties right alongside of it. There's more people became in franchise to vote. - So, if women couldn't vote, there wouldn't be parties. There probably would still be parties.

It'd probably still be a two party system. It's just that, how it works is that, if we continuously expand suffrage, let's just say, we expanded to another group of men. Now, those men have some special interest, right?

So, if it's not just property owners, let's say, it's now, you know, people who live in a city. Well, they want to levy past so that their kids can go to school, right? So, they pass it on the property owners.

Now, they can vote to hand themselves money. So, now you have a wedge issue. And so, you'll see parties start to form around these wedge issues. And the more you have universal suffrage, the more you end up with party politics,

and tell you have a convergence of two, and usually it's a long, a certain wedge issue.

“So, the only way in a dialectic where you have two parties,”

a Democrat Republican to get your legislation passed, is to be able to outvote the other side, right? So, you kind of have to have them all in line or else. - That makes sense. And there's no room in this country at the current point in time

for another party. No one would accept it. - We think about other parties like their goof, the green party, like that's a protest vote. You know, they were tearing parties on that.

I've done a few protests votes back my day. - Yeah, I talked with, I was arguing with Rex Jones the other day, it's Alex Jones is kid about this.

you don't have a prayer in starting a third party in time for midterms, and then the presidential election, that's coming up in just a couple short years. You're not going to be able to replace this system. You're not going to be able to do that.

- There are two, the roots go too deep. - There are two intertwined power in influence. - Like think about the infrastructure, billions of dollars in NGO funding, all the shout reach program. Just to get on a ballot in a state

is often a multi-million dollar thing

“that you need to have a party apparatus behind.”

- Yeah, it's kind of nuts, right? - Yeah, multi-million dollars to spend to get a job that pays you a hundred and seventy thousand dollars, huh? (laughing) - What, what, oh, why do you think

that fucking student loans are a scam? - That's a crazy scam. - Well, up on these guys come in for their hundred thousand or a year job, and then they leave, and they have twenty-five million dollars in the bank.

- Yeah, that happens often. - When it happens? - When do we get that money? - Yeah, well, how about the ill-hand Omar thing? - Oh yeah, shout one thing.

- That one's wild. Like they estimated her net worth somewhere, like it was millions, like 30 million or something crazy. And then she said it was an error, and then it was actually like a lot less than that,

like a hundred thousand or something like really reasonable. Like you imagine if your account was so bad, you're like, hey Mike, how much money am I worth? And he's like, I think you were 30 million. And he's like, fuck yeah, dude,

thinking about buying a Corvette. - And he got $3,000 in the bank. (laughing) - And then you call Mike the next day. And he says, so a 30 million?

Because actually, it was an error. You're worth about a hundred grand. And he's like, hey Mike, I'm gonna kill you, 'cause you stole 30 million dollars from me. That doesn't make any sense.

- A hundred percent. And do you think maybe she like strategically started moving some things with her account? - So, how about there was actually a nerd that they owned, that never made a bottle of wine?

- Sounds right. - Is that, in the case with one of those businesses that closed down, let's pick on her. It's, if you look at the Republicans and the Democrats when it comes to insider trading,

it's fucking everybody. It's red, blue, red, blue, red, blue. It is, this is not a one-party thing. This is why it's never gonna stop. They're both dipping their toes in.

They're both having fun.

You basically always have the expectation of corruption.

So even if you put your candidates in,

“so you're trying to get something out of that, right?”

And some issues are trying to push forward. You almost baked into the system, have to accept a certain amount of corruption is going to come out of that. So like, let me give you a really good example

of that, a key wedge issue, like a portion. So you get Christians who are just adamant, right? Just got to stop. Well, they accept, if it's the case that candidates are really moving the post on that,

if they're really moving legislation against abortion, do you think that they would turn a blind eye to a little bit of corruption? Probably. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace,

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“Yeah, there's definitely some compromises”

that get made both on your morals and the way you view financial issues and all kinds of things.

So it's never, especially there's only two parties.

Like, you're with us or against us to be this. It's us and them. It's good and evil. That's it. In this country, that's really how people look at it.

On both sides, it's good versus evil. But you have an alternative there. That's even worse or can at least sometimes be worse. So let's go to like the UK or Canada or places like this where they do round voting.

Yeah, more and two parties, that's true. But do you really want your president to be elected with 10% of the vote? Right. 15% of the vote?

You want your politicians to be put in with 9% of the vote? Because that can happen. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, between these rounds.

And so you think about it and you go, this two party system sucks. But then you look at other places that have multiple parties and they do their rounds of voting.

And you're like, wait, see, you could get elected with only 14% of the vote. So everybody else hates you. Yeah. There's the weird argument of the benevolent dictator.

I'm sure you've heard this argument. But that a society is best run by benevolent dictator. Someone who really, truly has ultimate power but actually cares, a good person that cares about the people. That really just wants things to be reasonable

and have a working economy and have working education.

“And everything worked correctly and we'd”

out all of the fraud and corruption because he's a king. And he could just do it. Whatever the fuck you want. Look, I'd have only been to Dubai one time

because we had a UFC over there and I had to go to the weigh-ins, the weigh-ins were in Dubai. Saw a lot of fucking Ferraris and Lamborghini's in 10 minutes. But from what I hear, it's the most safe place on Earth, like literally, like there's a little lady under Vlad.

Yeah. Like what would you say? Like for a lady under Vlad, the impaler? How can you hang gold in the street? And he doesn't look around.

It's a bunch of people in pale everywhere. He would do them in designs. He would do them in geometric patterns. So you'd realize he's being creative with impaling people.

He wasn't messing around.

Oh, no, no, no. No story. Yeah. He was kidnapped when he was a small boy. Woo!

A lot to that guy. And his brother. Yeah. Yeah. They're, you know, inter-brother conflict that they had for years

and how he got power lost power. Yeah. There's a tale to be told about Vlad the impaler for sure. But probably a pretty safe place to live. [LAUGHTER]

They can't do bye. Like if they catch you with a bag of weed, you're going to jail for the rest of your life. Or they'll kill you. Yeah, they're done. Yeah.

They've crazy lost.

“There was one guy, I think it was Dubai, who I think he had, like marijuana seeds”

in the soul of his shoes or something like that. Like it's stepped on a marijuana seed, maybe in his apartment. And he was, didn't have any drugs on him, nothing. And they put him in jail for a long time, man. I forget, this was a few years back, but it was a crazy case.

There was another lady who got arrested, I forget what happened. But she, later a guy tested positive for Poppy because she had Poppy seed bagel. And I don't know if you know this. But if you're testing for drugs and you eat a Poppy seed bagel, you could pop for heroin. Yeah.

Yeah, I've heard that. But doesn't, with modern test, isn't it a little bit better now? Oh, so. I don't know. 2008, this is a British traveler and Dubai was stopped the airport and lab found 0.003 grams

of cannabis in his shoe sole. Holy fuck. Yeah, that's crazy. That's crazy. He received a mandatory four-year sentence under the UAE's strict drug laws.

So he was later released early. So early early. So the British government came in and tried to barter him out of there, I'm guessing. But I guess, or the whole world must have been so outraged.

I mean, at a certain point in time, they have to say, we run the risk of never having

tourist visit us again, and Dubai is a very tourist central place. Sure. But I have a friend who moved over there a while back. He moved back to America recently. But he moved over there and he was like, dude, it's just safe for me.

I don't worry if I go out, you know, someone's going to like, he's big black guy. He's like, I don't want to get shot, he goes, I'm worried if I go out. He goes over here. There's nothing like that. So no crime.

He goes, everything's nice. Everything's clean. You can leave a Rolex on the street. They'll pick it up and turn into the cops. Like, no, nobody steals nothing over there.

But there's a trade off of that, right? [LAUGHTER] Better than trade off, yeah. Better than trade off, yeah. But there's a trade off, right?

Better than trade off, yeah. There's a trade off, yeah. There's a trade off, yeah. But there's a trade off, right? There's a trade off, yeah.

There's a trade off, yeah. There's a trade off, yeah. I'm going to go for a while. I don't think they do that in Dubai, but they let, you know. Yeah. If you're not fucking around.

There's no fucking around. I saw some lady getting a screaming match. She was trying to do the thing that a lot of people do in America at the airport. And she got a screaming thing with the lady at the counter, they're like, not today. They're just, they just come over and fucking cough you up and take you away.

You can't, you can't do that there. You can't, like, you can't spirit airlines, you know. Can you prefer that? Would you prefer that society? I don't think people should be able to just fucking scream and yell at people that work

behind counters. I don't think that's productive. I don't think smacking them in the head because they can't get you a flight. We've all seen that kind of shit. There should be zero tolerance for that kind of violence.

But what if we tweaked it a different way? Okay. So what if instead of bringing in like some crazy Sharia in order to make sure that that

“would happen, you should prop act dueling, like wouldn't dueling solve like 95% of this.”

Dueling requires people to wait before they turn around and shoot that I'm not trusting a guy who wants to kill me to not jump the gun. But that depends on the rules, right? Like you could adjust the rules a little bit. Yes, adjust the rules, but it's like if you could, if you could call somebody out

for teaching you or something like this, right? So like I think people would probably be a lot more polite wouldn't they?

I think this is probably a better way than shooting each other in a street.

Probably. Probably.

“But there's probably a better way than even like fist fights, that this is a better”

way than that too. You don't have to fist fight. They come on. But you know, there's certainly something to be said for a society that is more orderly in people follow the rules and as long as the rules make sense and these people are friendly

and kind and they make for good community members that's not putting up with mentally elunitics just rocking around causing problems everywhere, which is what Americans' societies now dealing with. You would just see what just happened in Wisconsin where they had their own autonomous zone.

Just got broken up today by the cops. I didn't see got broken up. You got broken up today?

Yeah, see if you could find it, Jamie.

There was a video footage just fucking army of cops came in and arrested everybody's spray paint all the streets and it just gets the clear autonomous zones on public. I'm like, what does it mean? Never chasin' chop. We just declared this an autonomous zone, sorry.

Madison officials clear Willie Street in camp, police officers, arrest protesters who resist at Cory Ruiz, memorial, say, "I do not know this Cory Ruiz story." The Cory Ruiz memorial, so was it something ice-related, perhaps? I think that's what this is, right? Is that what this is, Jamie?

Did something happen? Something happened. Someone got shot, right? You don't know about it either? No.

See, that's the problem. There's so many fucking things in the news that it's impossible unless you're a maniac and you're just online all day. It's impossible to know exactly what's going on. You take a couple of days off and smell the roses and you get back online.

Oh, how come you haven't commented on what is it? I don't know what you got to catch up for four days for one day. Also, hot take, maybe you shouldn't have a hot take on everything.

“Maybe some things you need to let it play out in the news, let people dissect it.”

See now that, I wish that that was a message that more people got, that the idea that you don't have to rush immediately out there to tell everybody your latest hotest take, which is oftentimes by the way, stupid, it's often just stupid take. Yeah, no information, right? But you got to rush out there.

You're going to get those views and clicks quick, but then you're married to that take. Exactly. And unless you come back and make another video or make another take and explain why you fucked it up. But I think that there's something to be said for like, there's a lot of stories that are in

the news. I don't fucking know exactly what happened there. Let's let this one play out a little bit. This one seems weird. Like if I come out with a hot take, like who fucking knows what's really going on with

15 to like, there's so many different stories in the news. Is it impossible? What's that, Jamie? I didn't find the details, but it is a police killing. It says officer involved in the evening of courierries.

And that's it. I'm looking for evidence and video. I didn't check Twitter or anything yet. Put it into proplexity, ask proplexity, what is the controversy about the killing of courierries?

You can't, you can't be, we're not designed to get all the bad news of 8 billion people.

We're just not designed for that. That's not a normal thing for a person to absorb. It's also driving a lot of people crazy. Crazy. Throughout drive them to insanity, they think they start to see conspiracy everywhere.

They start to see, you know, plots of interest, where there aren't any, right? It starts to actually drive people mad because they can't disassociate between the fact that there is sensationalism and then there's reality and the way that people think they think in frames. So if you think in a conspiratorial frame, you're usually taking tangential things and

piecing them together that don't belong, right? But then if you think in an autistic frame, as my friend Paul would say, if you think in an autistic frame, you're going to hone down so deep on one detail that you miss the entirety of the picture, right?

“So you have to have an idea between these two things, right?”

It's like, conspiracies exist. We know this. Many of them exist. There's many of them I can state off the top of my head, like MK Ultra. That was a conspiracy that existed.

Yeah. Right? But there's also a lot that don't. Right. And so how do you disassociate between the two?

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“And you have to come to the recognition that some of these fake ones were planted to make”

the real ones look stupid. Plus it's own. Yes. This is a common strategy. What was it, Jerry?

You pulled it up. Controversy centers on whether Madison police needed to use deadly force against 38 year old Cori Ruiz, a black man during a July 206 arrest and on the lack of body camera footage. Oh, conflicting narratives about the threat he posed and the broader concerns about racialized policing.

Police responded reports of a man allegedly looking into parked vehicles and stealing bicycles. During the attempted arrest by four officers, a taser was deployed, but reportedly failed. Police say Ruiz pulled a knife and injured an officer. So which that officer shot and killed him. Cell phone video recorded by a bystander shows part of the struggle and shooting and quickly

went viral, triggering protests and public outcry. Use of deadly force versus alternatives, community members and Ruiz's family question why lethal force was used when multiple officers were already restraining him on the ground. And a taser had been deployed arguing that he did not deserve to be shot to death in the street.

Like a body cameras, none of the officers involved were wearing body-worn cameras, so the only visual recording is bystander video which fuels distrust and demands for more accountability and measures and technology. We need more flock cameras, conflicting narratives about threat. Police emphasized that Ruiz stabbed or injured an officer with a knife, framing the shooting

as a response to an immediate threat, critics and loved ones questioned whether the threat justified shooting or strained man and whether de-escalation was properly used.

And first of all, if he really did stab a police officer, if he stabbing a police officer,

like they are supposed to shoot him, that is, you can't take, you can't say someone stabbing me, I hope they're only hurting me. Yeah, right, or how do you assess the amount of force that you can use back when someone stabbing you?

“I think that that's responding with lethal force.”

Would it just say Jamie? Try to find the video. Yeah, let's find the video. Also, how big is this guy? If he's got all these people and are these like a bunch of like shitty, untrained police officers who don't know any martial arts, when you say he's restrained,

like how restrained was he? You know what I mean? Like if you got two dudes that are a bit like Tony Hinch Cliff and they're trying to hold me back from fucking somebody up, he's not going to do nothing. You know what I mean?

It's like, how big is this guy? What happened? Was he the one that was stealing things or was he wrongly accused? Does he have a record? Is he a violent person?

I don't know anything. Is he a complete innocent bystander? This is the video. Video contains graphic contact. Okay.

That's it? That's all that I want to show. So it's probably multiple videos? Yeah. Yeah.

The thing about the tasers is it's fucking weird, man. Tasers on some people. They lock them up and they fuck it. And they fall down. I've seen guys just scream and rip those things off their chest like it's nothing.

Well, sometimes those probes don't penetrate either, right? Right. I think some of those tasers are bunk two hundred percent. Some of the tasers are just shit equipment.

“I mean, that's the only thing that makes sense.”

So these guys, did you ever play with one of the handhelds when you were a kid? No.

Somebody always had a handheld somewhere.

No, I never did. I just talked about electric fence though once. Yeah. He told you for fuck yeah. That'll make your teeth flat.

Holy fuck, dude. It's letting go. That's all right. Yeah. Disturbing video.

Okay. Oh, there's sound on it. Oh, my gosh, y'all. Look at your phones over here, the song. This is taser.

Oh, okay. Hold on, man. Back up. Back up. What was he reaching for on the ground?

Is that the girl, the woman shoots him? Okay. Okay. Yeah. Okay.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I can't tell he shut the gun, but that was fine. Okay. That's crazy.

That does not look justified.

Unless he had a knife and was stabbing people. But even if he was stabbing, how much control do they have on him before she starts shooting him? Yeah. Was it the Czech who shot him?

Yes. Look. See, she backs away and watch. They taste them, they get them to the ground, and she shoots them while they've got them down on the ground.

That's a female cops. Yeah, that's not good. That's crazy. Oh, again, I don't know what happened. I don't know if he stabbed one of them if he really did have a knife when stabbing

them. But it seems like they had him or strained.

“I think that's the guy who shot him, I can't tell.”

But that lady stands back and extends her arms with a gun. Oh, you're right. It looks like he shoots them. Oh, it's the guy shoots him. Yeah, I think she had the taste.

She's shooting him with a taser. Oh. Let me see that again. What? God, it's hard to tell.

Is it so it's the guy in the back? I think it's the guy in the front. So if you, the dude in the back, you see the guy right next to you. That guy shoots him. It looks like it.

I'm not sure. That's really close to. Yeah. It seems like. Oh, yeah.

The second to shot stop, he puts his hand.

His gun back. Right. Makes me think maybe it was him. Yes. Fuck man.

That does not look good. So that's not a good one. No. No. No.

Doesn't look right. No.

“That means you have to give us your hot take now, Jill.”

Yeah. That's my hot take. So you can run to Twitter with it. I need to know. Did you actually stab one of them?

So then it says during a press conference two of the cops were injured in the altercation. Police said the suspect allegedly pulled out a fixed blade knife to which an officer pulled out a taser. Same officer shot him with a gun. Okay. That's different.

So if he really pulled out a knife, it was trying to stab them. And they couldn't totally get control of them. And that guy just decides he stabbed me. I'm going to shoot them. That's a different thing.

I agree. That's different. Also, we didn't have the front view. Right. We see the view from the back.

It's very blurry. The whole thing. We didn't even know who shot without the lady shot him. Yeah. It's hard to tell what the fuck is going on.

You can't even tell if it's a taser or gunner hand. It's that blurry. But if he stabbed them and he's got a knife, that's a different thing. Right. The whole thing is fucked, though.

Like, that is the last thing American needs right now. Yeah. I mean, you don't want another riot season. I mean, I wonder if people would go right into it the way they did before without USA's help.

Here's what a witness said he saw.

The witness came flying around on his bicycle. One officer tackled him. Two other officers kind of rushed over. One of the officers yells he has a knife. One of the officers then draws a taser and yells taser, taser, taser, taser.

He tasers him. So it says he tasers him. But wasn't that the woman? I'm not sure that she actually tasered him. Or she just had her weapon.

She might have just had her weapon out. He tasers him and the victim falls to the ground. The three continue to struggle for a second or two. Then one of the officers stands just a couple feet above his head. Shooting the okay three times.

Three times to the head. Holy fuck. It did look like he was the shooter. Okay. So that's what we saw.

Yeah. And the thing the tell for that was as soon as he was done. You put it right back. Hold on. Yeah.

Right. There's no video that has been snopped and circulated online. That's being reviewed. Oh. Why don't they have body cameras?

That's what I mean. That's probably part of the whole protest was that their cameras were not on. So what if they didn't have them? I don't know. Let's find that out.

Did they not have them or were they not on? A lack of body cameras. None of the officers involved were wearing body cameras. Hmm. None of them.

That's. Are they supposed to? Yeah. They may not be part of the audience. Yeah.

I don't know about the prayer. See Madison. How about fix that? Yeah. Yeah.

Fix that. You know cops often in the ones who suggest that. Yeah. For their own safety. They say that they want to wear body cams.

I have seen a lot of crazy body cam footage where a guy is pulling someone over. And they're just having a casual conversation. Also the guy pulls a gun out and starts shooting them. Yep. I've seen a bunch of those tons.

These are actually the routine traffic stops. Happens constantly.

“You have to always think like if you're in an altercation with a cop.”

These people are always worried that this is where their life is going to end.

They're always worried that they're going to get shot. They're they've seen those videos too. So if you start shit with a cop and he freaks out and goes the wrong direction. Like you're probably dealing with a guy who's got some serious PTSD.

He's seen it before. Or he's but he's gotten, gotten plugged. They've all seen it. Yeah. I have a friend who spent a lot of times overseas deployed.

And he's in combat. And he said he saw way more as an Austin cop. Like way more fucked up things. And all the time. Whereas, you know, you're not war all the time.

You know, in fire fight, it's all the time. Because like it's like every day, every day you're seeing something fucked up that you cannot say. Any see it with kids. Yeah. Things you got to deal with with kids.

Things you got to deal with with all sorts of things. That is not a fun job. No. And I would not want it at all.

So I always do tend to cut law enforcement quite a bit of grace until I hear what their

side of things are. Yeah. That is a brutal job to have. But he minds a deputy sheriff. Then I talk with him.

And he's policing a small area. And he's like, it's the stuff of the kids. It gets him. Yeah. Exactly.

Because like, that's the stuff. You'll go, you know, go into a junkie's house. There's a two year old there. Hasn't eaten in four days. You know.

He's like, that's the stuff that really. He's like, I had a rather shoot a person than that. Which kind of makes sense to me, right? Like, I would. Yeah.

I probably would too.

You know, when you think about who should be allowed to have kids, who should be.

“Like, that's what's really crazy about freedom.”

Is that any two crackheads with no money at all, just on the side of the road. And he can nut inside of her and that creates a life. And that life, they're responsible for. And they're smoking crack and drinking ever clear. And they have a baby growing inside of their body.

And no one can do anything about it. There's no protection for that baby. There's no nothing. And then if that baby is born, if it does live. Like, you know, you talk to people that have actually, like, been in the delivery room with crack babies.

It's like, oh my God, man. The horror story is about a child addicted to drugs coming out of the womb, addicted to drugs. Yeah. And detoxing heavily addicted, heavily addicted. Yeah.

Yeah. So horror.

It's so twisted. It's like, people can be so awesome.

And so shit at the same time. Coexisting on the same patch of dirt. And no one devises a legitimate strategy for mitigating the amount of people that suck. And the problems with can it, can it, can it even be done? I don't know.

Yeah. Not with freedom. I mean, this is the flat camera question. You know, do you want big brother looking at your license plate everywhere you go? Well, listen to someone shoots up like, this is the argument that Mark and Dresen made on this podcast.

When he had come here, right after he, right before he had come here, there was a shooting in Austin. Where some kids just randomly started shooting at people. And then they couldn't find them in Austin. But as soon as they left Austin, city limits, they went into an area that had flat cameras. And they got them like that.

So this was his argument for the benefits of flat cameras. But I do believe he invests in flat camera. But sure. I mean, but you can make that argument with CCTV as well. You can make that argument with everyone wear a chip.

Yeah. Everyone wear a body camera.

“The thing is, you have to be cautious with the idea of the nanny state.”

For another reason, besides just protecting people's independent privacy. It's because those things often become money wells for people to steal from the public. And that is the major issue, right? So some of the reasons I can, even though I'm on the paleo Christian side, to lean towards a lot of the freedom elements over the nays because of the corruption. The corruption, which happens often times when you try to curtail too much, right?

That in and of itself creates a system and that system becomes ripe for corruption. Let me give you an example. Float cams, who we award in the contracts too, and who's going to be servicing those contracts, who's going to be doing these things, right? That's where you start to see with new systems.

There becomes new corruption. So it has to be a way to curtail. But there's some things that are pretty obvious that you could curtail, and who cares if people bet you're about it. Like, let's take online prostitution, for instance.

Okay, great. It's illegal to do only fans, let's say. How the hell could that possibly be bad for us? What is that going to do? That's just, oh, we got to have that, though, Andrew.

We got to have that. It's like, I don't think we do.

“I don't think it's necessary, and if we got rid of it, like, who cares?”

It seems like it would just be a massive net positive for every human being. That was just done away with all together. And it's like, what the systems that come into, though, for policing it, are pro-necruption. So you got to be cautious about it.

All right. You got to be cautious about it. Also, I just don't like people telling people what to do. Even if they shouldn't be doing it, I don't like it.

Like, if they're heroin addicts, you're going to be like, no, yes.

“Well, even that, like, I don't think you should be a heroin addict,”

but I don't think I should be the one to tell you not to do heroin. I don't, because I think it's a slippery slope, and then it's don't smoke cigarettes. And then it's because cigarettes are killing you. And then it's don't drink whiskey, because you could be a drunk driver,

and kill a family of five. Like, it's all the same shit. It's like, I think that all those have kind of the same impact on society, ultimately. Well, the heroin thing is a weird one, because like the argument,

I make would be like the incest argument. It'd be like, look, that's outlawed for a good reason. But what if you have two people or totally sterile? Like, they can't have kids, right? What's the moral argument that can be made?

And people are like, well, I can't really make them just gross. It's just gross. It's just gross. It's just fucking your shit. Yeah, you just see it out.

What do you do it? It's just gross. And it's like, well, but can we legislate off of its just gross?

And the kind of a libertarian mindset is,

no, we can't. And I think, yeah, we can. I'm okay with that. Like, I'm okay about, I remember debating what we should do. What would you do?

Would you arrest some guy and his sister, if you found out they were bone and each other? Why not arrest him? Why not? Like, how would that?

How would deterring that society wide? Ever be a bad idea? I don't think it is. However, it's technically a victimless crime, especially under the circumstances that you described,

whereas they're both both sterile.

“I do not think you should be able to do that.”

No? But I mean, I don't think you should do that, should say. Yeah. But in the case of Cersei and what's his face? Was the other dude's name in Game Thrones?

The brother and sister? Oh, yeah. Yeah.

It really seemed like they were in love, dude.

Sure. They haven't. They haven't. They had, like, incest babies, right? They went on rule kingdoms and they were all like,

like, joffery, joffery. Probably didn't want the incest baby in charge of the kingdom. Didn't work out. The other incest baby was in charge of the kingdom. He jumped off the roof.

True. And was it John Snow technically doing incest as well with the queen of dragons? Like, what are they both? They're related.

Yeah. They're in the basket. They were pretty. Right? Something.

Yeah. There's a lot of happiness. There's something in the Game of Thrones. Oh, yeah. But the other argument there that's interesting is,

it's like, okay, that's fair enough. The victim was crying. But you can just kind of extend that. Like, okay, well, then why can't you guy have high-wise? Why can't he have 20?

Why can't 20 game in? I'll get married and adopt one child instead. Just victimless crying. No. It's like, so it doesn't the slippery slope kind of go the other way,

a little bit too. Yeah. It does. It does go the other way. And the multiple wives think didn't they just pass something like that in Toronto?

Was that in Ontario? Were there allowing polygamy now?

“Because they have so many Islamic people living there that think that you should be allowed to have.”

Well, remember there's big pushes for that in Utah off because of them. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, you know, that's why Mitt Romney's family moved to Mexico. Yeah.

Really? Oh, yeah. You didn't know it was alive. So I didn't know that it was due to the multiple wives. Well, not specifically.

But that sect of Mormonism fled the United States when they passed polygamy laws. Mm-hmm. And I think there was probably just a broader crackdown on this perceived new cult. They thought of it as a cult. Now it's a established religion of really nice people that knock in your door.

Yeah. They drive around. I must admit, I have debated many Mormons. And they are just a nice people. That nicest people.

It's the best cult. And it makes me, it's like, it's upsetting because I'm like, look, I'm about to expose that your profit was totally fake. And, you know, I'm trying to get people into the debate. And they just end up being like the nicest people.

And I go, oh, man. So having multiple wives or spouses is illegal in Canada under Section 293 polygamy and Section 290. Bigamy. What does Bigamy, isn't that, is that the other way? Is Bigamy the other way?

Oh, no. Not like a man with multiple. Do you know what it is, Jamie? Do you know what Bigamy is? If it hurt a bit?

I don't even think I've ever seen that written. The act of marrying one person, well, still legally married. Oh, okay. Oh, a bigumist, right, duh. But some guys was married to four people at once.

Four people at once, in somewhere, another recently, like this year. In America? In Canada. He was married to four women at once. So he got multiple marriage licenses and should not have been given them or something.

Oh, well, he doesn't look Muslim. That guy looks like he's just a regular Christian guy. Oh, well, he doesn't look Muslim. He might not be, though. He might just be a baller.

He could be a muslim. Go back to that case in Canada, isn't there something where they're trying to pass it into Ranto? I don't think so. I mean, I typed in Toronto multiple lives.

No, Toronto, Ontario, polygamy.

I mean, I saw I went to news to see something.

You know, I would've passed it out. Oh, is it Ottawa? Maybe it was Ottawa. Yeah. Canada, polygamy.

No new law in Canada legalizing multiple wives. Perhaps proposed law? Yeah, well, I don't know. Maybe it is a proposed law. Maybe I just read some horseshit on Twitter, which is very possible.

Who have been off Twitter for a few days? I feel pretty good. It's good. It's going to unplug from Twitter. Yeah, every now and that day I just go in and I'm like,

"Who do they mount out now?" Oh, God. Can I ask you a question? Yeah, sure. If you went into to X tomorrow, let's say.

And there was an option there where you could select it, and it's like US accounts only. That's all you could see.

“Do you think that 90% of the traffic for people would go away?”

A giant percentage. Huge percentage. Huge percentage is people being manipulated into arguments. It is a strategy.

It is a strategy. It is a strategy. It is a strategy. It is real. This is not ten-foil-how-chit.

We brought this up multiple times in the podcast, but I'll bring it up again just for the sake of this. There was an FBI analyst who took a look at Twitter when Elon was buying it, and he estimated that 80% of the traffic is bots. This doesn't surprise me.

Remember YouTube didn't internal audit. And when they did their internal audit, this was a few years back. And when Susan still ran in, I believe. They did an internal audit and found out that most of the people

that they have on YouTube are bots. And they did a great purge.

“That's where they had that whole debt internet theory.”

And all that started to pick up traction. Hey, look, a lot of this stuff is bots for an account. People who are manipulating US elections. They are manipulating various US interests. And this is happening all over the place.

Right now, you have progressives who are funded by Act Blue. And I've proven this. We've traced all their money. It's progressives funded by Act Blue, who are pushing the same narrative

that can't so-ins and others are pushing on the idea of Charlie Kirk's death and the conspiracy around that. So you have absolutely being paid to push this? Well, their stated mission, this particular progressive group, their stated mission was to take down TPSA.

I'll tell you a story. This is the tale of all tales. Okay. So Charlie Kirk has this huge outreach program that's happening through TPSA on these college campuses.

He's got viral clip after viral clip after viral clip. They are going wild. He's going campus to campus. He's doing his thing. He's being dogged by a progressive organization.

This progressive organization shows up at almost all of these TPSA events with the stated mission of trying to create a counter-movement to what TPSA is doing. Now, the woman who heads this particular organization received millions of dollars from Act Blue

and other progressive organizations for this stated mission.

That same woman right this second works with other

organizations. In order to push that narrative forward, because the stated goal is still from that organization, is to destroy TPSA. So how do we know that they've done this?

Is there emails that have been found? Well, the stated goal of this particular person? Is to take down TPSA? Right. Very open about that.

And then the way that you know that they are talking to these other counts is because they do it publicly.

“Those public accounts will talk to this account, right?”

Very openly. They reaffirm each other's post. They say, wow, that's real interesting. This kind of thing. All affirming that same conspiracy that TPSA

was the ones who actually set up in murder Charlie Kirk. And it millions of dollars in Act Blue funding going towards this. No joke. Anybody can look it up right now. The organizations called Unfuck America.

So how do they think that his organization did this? That they convinced Tyler Robinson to do it? Or did they think someone else did it? I don't think that the progressive organization does believe that TPSA did this.

I think that what they want to do. Oh, no, I understand that, but I mean, what are they trying to say?

Oh, well, the here's what the theory is.

So take Ian Carroll within 24 hours after Kirk's death, Blames Israel within 24 hours. He says Israel killed Kirk. That was his tweet when Megaviral. What the conspiracy is on that side is that Israel,

along with Erica Kirk and TPSA Insiders,

to murder Charlie Kirk because he was going to leave the quote, "pro is real cause." That's what the theory is. Right. And that he was either murdered.

“Some of them say with a microphone exploding.”

Some of them say with a, you do that versus second shooter

and Robinson's Apache. It all depends on which theorist you're talking to, but they all work together in the same unison from a single camp, which is interesting. Well, a lot of people had takes on the shooting

and the microphone one was the weirdest one to me. It's weird because there's no, like, yeah, the shirt is moving, but also a bullet is going like, how many feet per second whizzing through the air?

Like, do you understand? Yeah, so where people go? People don't understand that. You know what got me though? So I went back and look because they say

that they're the same explosive, which was used inside these really pages. Now, that was very real. It's a real sense. This will be an explosion.

That's my take. My point is like, there's no indication that there's an ignition. There is worse. There's no smoke.

Right. Now, all these really, if you pull up,

if you pulled up right now,

one of these is really pages going because there's tons of videos of them. Oh, really? Oh, yeah. You're going to see smoke going off.

They're smoke? Is there a dude like where it's on his hip? Yeah, well, yeah. Yep. There's one where it's on his hip and gets him.

And you can see the cloud of smoke coming off because of this specific type of ignition. Right. But is it possible that this page or thing is different than whatever they think this microphone thing is?

This microphone thing has some sort of a different kind of propellant. No, then again, you'd have to like, okay, let's imagine what kind of propellant exists.

Right. Compressed air? There's not enough room in that microphone to get enough compressed air to blow a hole in your neck and kill you instantly.

Well, they claim that it's something else. It's what is it? P-E-T-N explosive.

This is the particular type that had to be used

for the size of the microphone. But you have another problem that mics on the wrong side of where the wound is. Right. The other is there's no burn marks.

There's no smoke. There's nothing. There's like there's nothing to confirm this theory at all. You'd have to guess where that mic is. Because he's moving around too.

“You have to guess where that mic is pointing.”

You could take someone out. So I found two videos. Yeah. This one's great. It happens again here.

Watch the smoke. See all that smoke? Let me see that again. Watch all that smoke. This is just chilling.

Boom. Look at all that smoke. It's bad, though. Yeah. So a lot of them think they didn't die.

They go to the hospital. And they're just like, you know, hurt. Probably because they had it in their bag. Or something. I found a couple.

One other video here. Well, these guys are going to be carrying around like armored statues. Well, yeah. You can think a couple of them were on bikes

and stuff when it happened. I think I fucked up. Yeah. He got this stuff real bad. Or they give you the illusion they did

by blurring out his head. That's the other part. I'm not that these are fake. But yes, there's only 11 were killed by the pages.

Still pretty slick. That was extremely strange. I mean, I mean, crazy. They sent him off to them years ago. That's some CIA shit man.

They're better. That's some deep state massage. Yeah. That's crazy. That's probably where the CIA learned it.

But that's a explosion. Right. Yeah. You see smoke. It's kind of a propellant that would be lethal

from a short distance with some sort of a projectile. It's possible. But it would also have to be like, how you aiming it? You're aiming it. It's sitting up here, right?

So if it's sitting here and he's doing all this and moving around, like, it might take a zero off and my zip was to the side and shoot somebody else if he leans over. Sure.

Unless they planned exactly when it's going to go off and it's pointing towards his neck. Which. Yeah. It seems like a gunshot wound.

It's just hard to imagine that it's a 30 out six. That's my issue with it. I look at it and you know, I've seen takes from guys that are gun experts and they have a problem with it, too.

The thing about guns though is weird stuff happens when you shoot bones. Like, it is possible that you wouldn't get a pass through. Depending on how it's squared, the spinal column. Depending on how it hit and depending on what kind of bullet it is,

I forget that these are 150 grain core locks. Core locks. That's right. And they're soft tip. So they only have enough of a jacket to keep the bullet together.

Right. The idea is that expands inside the body causing massive trauma. Right.

“Which is why I use them for hunting and probably you have to.”

Yeah. I haven't used that particular round. But it just seems like. It's a lot of fucking a lot of energy. It coming towards your neck.

It's hard to believe that it wouldn't blow a hole through the neck and believe a big fucking just take it chunk out that it would just make a round hole.

You know, there's other weird stuff with like the video. I don't like.

“There's a lot of people saying that the video is super clear.”

They're seeing 4K footage. It's clearly Tyler Robertson on the roof. No, it's not. Jack Persobick in Vinnie Johnson. That's crazy that they said that.

That is not clear. That is a blurry figure. You could barely ascertain. It's whether or not there's a recoil when someone takes the shot. So it does seem like the guy on the roof gets in a prone position.

And it looks like something that might be a rifle. Right. It's fucked. It also does look like there's kickback on the right leg. It looks like there might be some recoil.

It's hard, but it's not clear. Like for them to say it's crystal clear. It's Tyler Robertson. It's on the roof. Well, it's interesting when Persobick came out and said that in Vinnie Johnson.

There was another guy who was there who I know. His name's Kai Schwimmer. And Kai put out a tweet. He said, look, they might have sensationalized this just a bit. He said, but the video that we did see in the courtroom was actually much clearer.

Oh, okay. So I DMed him and I DM Jack Persobick. And I DMed, well, I couldn't get a hold of any, but I DM Jack Persobick. And I said, just be straight with me.

“Like did you, did you try to over-sensationalize this thing for clicks?”

Like what's the deal? He said, no listen. The footage we did see inside the courtroom was actually a lot clearer than anything that the public has seen so far. That's their claim. Kai Schwimmer, now I wouldn't just take Persobick as word. But Kai Schwimmer, he's a Mormon.

Mormon kid. Not very prone to tall tales.

In fact, he was the first one who came out and said, look, I was there.

And you're kind of oversensationalizing it. It is a lot clearer. But it does not showing everything that you're claiming it's showing. So it's clear, but it's not clear enough. It's not like 4k close up clearly in space.

The other thing that was weird was the guy in the crowd. That jumped up and said, I killed him. That's weird. And that guy wasn't yet the Boston bombing exact. He's a professional agitator who's been at tons in tons of these events. Later he's found, I believe, with Kitty Plorn.

How kind of thing? Well, also made that kind of guy. That's the kind of guy though, right? Yeah. And so his, he has been at tons of events agitating.

And he is well known to law enforcement for doing this. So that's kind of what they're stating for him. If you're looking at this from a broad view, if you're looking at the conspiracy side, versus what they call the Thet Slop side, let's say.

It makes sense for them to say, hey, wait a second.

That's really weird this guy jumps up and says, I did it. Right? That makes him, he's a patchy distraction, something like this. Tell you look into the guy. And the guy is a lunatic who's been at many of these events.

Yeah. Doing crazy stuff like this. That's the thing is both things can be true. Like MK Ultra's real. Also, that guy might just been a cook who's in the crowd.

Who took advantage of a situation because he's literally insane. And he's in the Kitty Porn. Yeah, but well, there's no doubt. One of the biggest kind of false narratives that comes out of this. And when I do debate, one of the things I'm trying to structure around is like,

I know that we're coming in with a narrative. But I need to understand yours.

“And you need to understand mine so we can get somewhere towards what the truth is here, right?”

Because you're going to have a frame of which you're viewing the world, a world view, and so on. And so everybody has a world view. We have to figure each other's out to get somewhere. Here with this, one of the most disturbing aspects of it is the people who promote this, actually don't want their world view or their positions to be examined.

They only want to examine the evidence from the state. It's like that would be fine, I think. If it was the case that you made no claims, pass that. So if you just only say, hey, you know, I'm not really sure what happened. And I want to really kind of review the evidence and that's that.

I don't really have a problem with that. I think that that's probably healthy. The issue that I've run into is when people make claims pass that. Oh, it's such an exploding, you know, exploding like. Right.

It was two different shooters. It was a folding rifle. It was a, the, the thirty got six couldn't do this in the US Army. Remember, the thirty got six used in the M1 grand was used in World War II. And then it was used in Korea.

Before that, we had the O3 Springfields used heavily in World War I and World War II and again in Korea. The US Army has studied thirty got six entry wounds in depth and produced many manuals on it,

explaining how cavitation works with thirty got six and that the bullet doesn't always penetrate.

And that's with full metal jacket rounds that are designed for maximum penetration, not 150 grain core lock coming out of an antique rifle, essentially. It could easily split up very quickly.

It wouldn't surprise me if we when we have all the data from the corner report that he has tons of shards all throughout his chest. All throughout his entire, because they were saying that there's trauma inside the chest, it would make sense if the bullets split up here. It would create all sorts of fragments down in the chest. That is an important distinction about the type of bullet.

Huge distinction.

“The FMJ, especially because that's what the Army is using.”

FMJ ball ammunition, it's cheap to produce. So they're using it in all these different wars. And the amount of people shot with that caliber between World War II and Korea's astronaut. They mean he used the 30 out 6 in Vietnam and limited capacity, especially the O3 Springfield. It was still in service by special forces.

So the question becomes like the US Army has studied this in-depth and I went back and I pulled all their manuals. And I even put them out and several people have done the exact same thing and put them out explaining how cavitation works. And they're saying, look, the energy dissipation, the second hit's a human body. It dissipates very, very, very quickly with the resistance.

So it doesn't always go through.

Now often times it does with the FMJ, but even then it didn't always go through. So, you know, it's a well-studied phenomenon. Another one would be Martin Luther King. Martin Luther King gets hit through the jaw and is up here.

“Well, if it's just going to blow through all bone, why did it stop in him?”

Well, it's because the second hit has impact. It begins to slow down and then it impacts something else, slows down even more. So it's totally possible that this guy was hit with a 30 odd 6. I don't know why that would be in the realm of impossibility. We have enough data on the ammo to know that, yeah, it's very possible this happened.

It is definitely possible. There's a lot of people that think that the sound was not, they think the sound indicated that it was a closer shot than where it was. And I've heard a lot of people say, well, there's also an issue with it being supersonic ammo. So you're getting two sounds.

You're getting a sound of the bullet actually breaking the air. You're also getting the sound of the rifle going off. I don't understand it. Yeah, it's difficult there when you're making the judgments on the sound. Because there are people who have run experiments saying right down to the second.

This meets up with a shot placement. And there's people who say, no, there's, you know, that experiment is bogus due to the controls for this or that.

The problem is that most of these people don't have any expertise in this arena at all.

They're just, yeah, but then they're just exactly. Yeah, they're just trying to, you know, and I get it, you're trying to figure it out. I understand. The Israel thing, there was some text messages back and forth. We're Charlie was talking about getting out of the Israel business.

And there was this position that he had where he did not want us to go to war with Iran, all true. And he had a lot of influence. And then there was also that Israel supposedly had offered him $150 million to be more pro Israel. That is the problem that we've run into. It's like, I've never been able to verify that was the case.

“Okay, so where does that claim come from this claim basically comes from this camp without anything is substantiated?”

So it's the same people that are pushing this thing to turn you point. What's interesting about this is like, it is indeed true. It does appear that Charlie Kirk was extremely pissed off at some of his donors because they were trying to control who he was platforming. They were upset that he had platformed Tucker Carlson. They were upset that he had platformed Candice Owens. They were upset and why? Well, it's because Tucker Carlson, Candice Owens, they were very anti or at least have it as somewhat anti Israel message at the time.

Carlson, I think a bit more than Candice, or maybe it could be the reverse. But I don't think that that matters too much. The donors were pissed off. Many of them were pro Israel. And some of these donors were applying pressure. And so Kirk was lamenting inside of his text messages about this pressure he was experiencing from some of his donors about it.

Who he could have couldn't platform. And so as an negotiating piece he said, well, I'll leave the pro Israeli cause if you're going to try to tell me who I can and can't platform. And that was kind of what his position was. Now, that seems like platforming. I don't know even on Twitch politics or YouTube politics with smaller channels, smaller streamers.

They argue about platforming all the time, responsible platforming. Is it responsible for you to platform this guy? Is it responsible for you to platform this terrorist? And they're endlessly fighting about it. So this actually doesn't surprise me a bit that these guys are fighting over who you can or can't platform.

If you're giving your money to an NGO for the purpose of giving the pro cause and that NGO is saying,

Wait a second, I'm going to platform people who are against your cause.

Of course the donor is going to get pissed.

If you're upset that someone is having a conversation or debate with someone that you don't agree with, that you're supposed to hear that person's perspective. You're supposed to hear them challenged. You're supposed to hear them allowed to flesh out the full point of view, not like in weird clip form. But tell me what you really think and I'm going to tell you why disagree with that.

That's healthy. It's supposed to be what we do. That you're basically reshiding what Kirk's position was.

Yes, and what he was always really good at.

Yeah, unfortunately there's a few clips. There's the clips thing with Charlie where he's saying things and people think it's racist.

“He's saying things and it's like you have to understand the context of what he was saying.”

And I've had conversations with black friends who think like he was saying, if I see a black pilot on a plane, I get worried. Is he qualified? The reason why he's saying that is because the specific laws that were designed to hire people just based on their race and not on their competency. He wasn't saying that black people weren't competent as pilots. What he's worried is that in the rush to meet these quotas, they're going to hire people who are not competent just because they're black.

Just like if they wanted to hire old white guys, they can hire a bunch of old white guys who suck. If they just want to fill a quota of old white guys, it just happens at this particular time when he's talking about black people. And it seems like if you just look at the clip, this racist piece of shit doesn't think black people can fly a plane. And that's the unfortunate thing about thinking out loud, right, which is what we do. We think out loud in public.

And when you think out loud in public, someone can take what you're saying and take a clip of it. And completely out of context, it looks bad. That happens to me all the time. It happens to me. But I had that conversation with people about Charlie and like. I don't agree with Charlie Kirk, I didn't agree with Charlie Kirk on everything. I met him once he was a very nice guy. I met him at a gun range. I met him at Taren Tactical in LA.

It's a place where you learn like serious gun shoots. We're Kiana Reeves learn for John Wick and a bunch of us. Is that where all those videos are friends where Kiana Reeves is going between 100% to 3% and that kind of thing? Exactly. That's where I met Charlie. He's really good at that, by the way.

Oh, Kiana Reeves is really good. He's fucking dedicated man when he was practicing. I mean, I talked to Taren about him. When he was practicing for John Wick, I mean, he was obsessive. And you know, that whole magazine thing we does, the flick, he invented that.

That's not something that's like a standard. Most of the time people just hit the release, drop the mag, pop the new mag. And he decided to do this jazzy flick thing. And now people do it all the time. Yeah, it's kind of funny.

I never put that together.

I guess I haven't actually seen that before. Not before the movie. I think it's him. I think it's the wick flick. I think I did flick.

Yeah, I think Kiana, at least this is the people that were there. But even though he reloads the shotgun is interesting. Yeah, the way that he'll actually hold it up as he's going in. Mm-hmm. And in between, if you shot, he's loading again.

Yeah. And fast. Yeah. That's not the thing that you usually see in movies.

“It's like you have way more rounds than you should have.”

For the opposite. For how bad the actor is at gun handling. For him, it's like the opposite. I do that in movies. I'm like, why is he shooting still?

He's out of bullets. Oh, he's out of bullets. Oh, he's out of bullets. Oh, he's out of bullets. He's out of bullets.

He's out of bullets.

You never see the walkie dead.

You've ever seen the famous scene where hertals in the front. And he's got the pump action shotgun. It's just unlimited ammo. Unlimited ammo. I was like, he found solid snakes unlimited ammo bandana and put it on.

And he's just, I mean, a hundred rounds. With this pump action shotgun. It's just he just never stops. It's so crazy. It's so crazy.

And I get, you know, I get pissed.

“I'll be sitting there watching it with my wife and I'll be like,”

"Where's he going to reload?" Where's he going to reload? Where's he going to reload? Well, the reason why it was so good was Taran. Like, Taran is really meticulous.

And he's a multiple-time world champion shooter. You know, he does those competition shooter ready. Beep. He's like, super in the spectrum. So he fucking sees things differently.

He doesn't mess. He's crazy. You know, Charlie was training under him, huh? Yes. Okay.

Yeah. We were both there at the same time. Interesting. Just randomly in a ran into him there. Anyway, very nice guy.

And the point is, like, people think that he was like this mean, shitty, conservative. He wasn't mean. He was very kind. And the way he would talk to people.

If you see enough of these, not the clips, but enough of these conversations people. It depended entirely on how the person approached him. And when people were respectful and reasonable with him, he was very kind and respectful and reasonable back.

I think he was a good man. I really do. And he was a young man, too. He was a young man that was getting an enormous amount of attention. That a very young age was handling it very well.

Especially, think about where he was going. Yeah. This guy's going into, it's like conservatives have wanted this my whole life. We've got to get into those institutions, the college institutions. Yes.

Progressives have a stranglehold Jordan Peterson talked a lot about this.

Well, I think Crowder did it first.

He did. He had the change my mind. Yes. And he's great at those. Yes.

I mean, but those also, there's clips where you look, you're in these agitated environments and people are yelling at you and you're yelling back. And you know, just get a clip of that. It's like, oh, this guy comes to harass kids. It's, you should welcome discourse.

And it should be something where everybody can do peacefully. It shouldn't be where these people speak and you hit the fire alarm because you don't want them speaking. And you're outside screaming and chanting and throwing rocks at their cars. Like, that's crazy. That's bad for everybody.

Last time I talked to Stephen, because he went and did a couple more of those after Kirk had died. And I said, you know, you know, that's dangerous as hell, man.

And he's like, well, I'm just going to build a bulletproof, like glass square.

And I'll just do it from there. Wow. That was his dedication to him. That likes Stephen. He's become very good friend of mine over the time that I've known him.

It's just that, like, he can, right now going on these college campuses and doing these debates, where you're, you know, these people are coming up. They have some things to say. I mean, it's going to heighten the energy. Now, crowders whole thing is not to debate. He wants to sit down and just have the combo.

Yeah. I don't want to debate. I just want, I want to actually see if you can change my mind on this issue. Right. And so it's a lot calmer.

And Charlie's wasn't Charlie's was much more energy-based. It was combative things like this.

And it pissed a lot of people off.

It pissed him off so bad that after he died, we did three weeks on TikTok. And going and talking to various TikTokers and their channels, who were just celebrating his death, like you can't believe it. They were just giddy. These leftists were jumping up and down. I'd go into their TikTok spaces and say, "So, what do you think, Charlie?"

And they'd say, "Oh, I'm glad he's dead."

“It's the best thing that ever happened to the country.”

Tyler Robinson's a hero. They said this stuff to me a lot. It was bad. And it was weeks of it that we went and exposed these to various TikTokers doing that. He saw a lot of people on-law and celebrating. And it's just disturbing.

We're to watch that you would encourage that kind of gun violence. Like, when is the left encouraging gun violence? That seems so insane. Just because you got hold of some clips. And I'm telling you, you didn't get the full understanding of who this guy was.

No. And who he could be. You know, again, he's 28 years old. No, so he's going to be in 20 years. He's a nice guy. He was a reasonable guy.

Like, they celebrating that guy's death. What you're going to do is, you're going to make more monsters. You're going to make more people that think, "If you didn't like that guy, well, then fuck you." Yeah.

Wait, tell you, see. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. That and I've heard a lot of that.

And some of that actually ties in to why so many people were so upset with T.P. USA initially, including myself. We were like, "Where's the energy?"

“You need to, like, they just killed this guy and brought daylight.”

I think crazy was rattled. These crazy leftists, right? Like, "Where's the push? Where's the energy? We wanted our war, right? Our verbal online war." Do you think there's any possibility that if someone else killed him?

Do you think there's any possibility that he was assassinated by Israel? I don't, well, we're talking about possibility. Almost anything's possible. Almost anything's possible. But there's not good evidence to support it.

And there's probably pretty good evidence not to. So, for instance, the guy was still very much of a pro-Israel guy even up to death. It is true that he was fighting with donors about the cause. But if he could have been a substantial roadblock to the Iraq war, if he or Iran war rather than, if he was a substantial roadblock, I mean, that's not outside the realm of possibility

that a nation state would take a guy like that out. They didn't take out flintes, they didn't take out a lintes. They didn't take out a lintes. They didn't take out a lintes. They didn't take out a lintes. They didn't take out any of these other huge personalities who were roadblocks to the way.

I think Charlie was a very different. Charlie was a very different. Carol, or excuse me, "Fuint does is more easy to dismiss." Because he said so many wild things, shit posting. He said so many crazy things.

“But I think he is almost embodying in their eyes like the crazy anti-Semite.”

Whereas Charlie was not an anti-Semite. It was much more reasonable. And if he was going against Israel, it could be a real problem. I also think that he had a tremendous amount of influence on the president. He had his ear, you know, I think the president respected him.

Oh, yeah, for sure. The interesting part, though, if you look at the history there,

Because of the pro-Israel stance and because of his pro-Homosexual stance

as a big tent republic, I don't want to call that. So they had the pro- the pro-stances for these things. And what's interesting about all of it, if you follow the details of it up until Kirk's death, CPUSA actually moved a lot more towards the gripper Fuintes position than they moved towards the pro-Israel this type of position,

“meaning a lot of the ideology that I think Kirk was changing on”

came from these various outside influences. And so if that's the case, why wouldn't you just curtail those outside influences? And then you can keep Kirk as the mouthpiece, right? So I think that there's pretty good counter to that idea. Now, you can't rule anything out as possibility,

but it seems likely to me with how much trends have been shooting everything up. That's couple of years. And how often it's the case that you find leftists involved in these signal groups and involved in these group chats and things like this from the purpose of radicalization when surprised me a bit if there was a left wing conspiracy

assisting Tyler Robinson and radicalizing Tyler Robinson. There's at least some evidence for that based on the discord groups, things like this that they were part of. I haven't actually seen a single piece of evidence that Israel was ever involved in this. No, I haven't seen the evidence.

I've seen a lot of speculation based on the text that Charlie made, the fact that he was so staunchly against the Iran War, and the fact that he did say that he was talking thinking about getting out of the Israel business. The pro Israel business. But in this climate, Israel gets blamed for a lot of things.

There's also a thing that's going on with the Charlie Kirk turning point that we talked about earlier.

“They have to factor in with this, which is that there's a lot of outside interests”

that are a part of this conversation. And this conversation is not necessarily organic. I can't tell you how many times I see a post on X, and I'm like, "That can't be real." Someone has been arrested and charges have been filed.

And then you start through it all. Not true at all. That's like the lips of you. It's like Joe Rogan reacts. They're just all totally fake.

Not me at all. It's not reacting at all. But if you use that, that's the problem with the world that we're in now, but there's this economy on attention. This attention is a commodity.

And the more you can get attention by whatever. Your hot take, your conspiracy, your conspiracies are awesome for attention. People who love them now. Because look, COVID-19.

I like it. I like it. I like it. I like it. I love the dumb ones.

I love all of them. I love fucking flattery. And there's this face. Can we just be honest? They're fun.

They're really fun. Oh yeah. Dude, the flattery is fun. Oh yeah. The dinosaurs aren't real one.

That one's great. But if you notice like the flatter, there's have fleets of people who will debate their stances. Like fleets of them.

We can't wait to debate with you on the flatter. If it's like on the other side, though, in this particular conspiracy, you can't get these people to debate their positions. Like who won't debate their positions?

We offered Candice Lens after $300,000 to do a debate. I was like, we'll give you $300,000. What is her position? What does she think?

She thinks it is real work and conjunction with TPSA and Erica Kirk to murder Charlie. Based on what? Well, that's the million dollar question. Nobody actually knows.

She's never presented a single shred of evidence thus far

that is real ever worked to murder Kirk. That Erica Kirk certainly didn't. In fact, her position for the longest time was if Erica Kirk comes out and tells me to stop to stop this, to stop the conspiracy on this, I will.

So Erica did. She went out publicly and she was like, enough, like enough. You're just causing more problems than good here. Is this investigation going on?

And then suddenly Erica's now part of the conspiracy. But you know, by the next day, Erica's. She's trying to cover it up. She's part of the conspiracy, too. When I went to the TPSA HQ,

and I talked to Erica briefly while it was there. The first thing I did was what I think every normal moral human being would ever do. I gave her hug. And I told her how God awful sorry I was

that that happened to her.

“Like, did you even imagine how that's got to feel for her?”

Especially now that she has tens of thousands of people accusing her of murdering and conspiring to murder and then cover up what happened to her own. I mean, that's like mind-boggling psychological torture

on a level that I've never seen.

Yeah, and hindsight is 2020, but given the reaction, I think it probably would have been better for her to, like,

Thousands percent.

The going out with the sparklers.

It's not a great idea. Like, all that was not a great idea. Because it just seemed insane.

“And maybe sometimes in grief or when, you know,”

you're trying to show that they're not going to hold us back. People make choices that could be interpreted in a very bad way. 100 percent. The interesting thing is I asked her about that.

I asked her. Like, what's the deal there? What's with the sparklers? Well, what's with the, like, the apparition in behavior. Right.

Like, look, I was put in, like, the most, the worst spot I ever think of.

I was the background character.

I was just there to support my husband, that's it. The only reason I even really got involved is because Charlie was so pro-marriage. You know, and he wanted to demonstrate to the world. You can be married and have kids, and this is the, this is the good life.

So when he dies, she takes over, right? This moves over to her control.

“She says, well, the first thing I want to do is honor his last book.”

You know, that's the very first thing I want to do. I want to honor his legacy. And she's like, I don't know exactly how to take this position at the same time. There's expectations for the organization.

My husband built that I want to honor, right? But, you know, I'm also in the middle of grief. And it's like, I don't know how you balance that position. Who's been in that position ever? Right.

And especially who's been in that position? That's not accustomed to being scrutinized in the public eye. Everything. And it's the lack of charity ability that's so bad, too. Like, let me give you an example.

If you say, Paul Solazy, he never gets to work on time.

You don't actually mean Paul has never once gotten to work on time. That's not what people mean. Right. But the way that these people will scrutinize every detail of what a person does. They can make a liar out of anybody.

Because that they'll take statements like that, which in the common terms, if you say, a man Paul Paul's never here on time. You don't literally mean he's never here on time. Nobody talks that way. But if you push on everything a person's ever set,

tongue-in-cheek, not tongue-in-cheek, they misremember an event. They don't misremember an event. You can make a liar at anybody. Right. Yeah.

And that sort of scrutiny from all that public trauma. And it was. As most traumatic events, rumors have ever gone through. The biggest, I mean, a public assassination like this, same thing with millennials.

It also exposed people's character that they were celebrating it. Oh, yeah. And they have to feel bad about that. They can't feel good about that. And they have to feel bad about the response.

Because so many people got fired because of it. And so many people got attacked on. And rightly so. But they were saying they were creating these memorials. And left us were celebrating that.

They were saying they were going to give the guy money who did it. Yeah. Well, it's, again, I wonder how much of that is enforced and promoted online. How much of that is propped up, how much? Because you can change the zeitgeist with a few hundred thousand accounts. You really can.

You really can. You could change it with hot takes. And also, it's not all bots. It's some of it is people that are being paid to have a position or have made their career from having a position. And their career is about attacking one side or the other.

Their career is about enforcing one ideology or the other. And they, they get into the mix too. And they have a large following and people love it when someone who's prominent, who agrees with whatever their ideology goes with. So they support it and they pile on and then there's a hundred thousand bots that are piling on as well.

And no one really knows whether or not this is a rational organic argument in there. They're in the fucking frenzy of a mosh pit. Do you remember years ago that he has really sent over the student that that student sent by us. That took over the centrifuges in Iran and tore them all to pieces. The interesting side effect of this for one thing.

Nobody knows how to hell. They got their hands on the original source code from like they have no idea. And it's still built into all the windows programming, supposedly, right, this virus. But the Iranians were so pissed off about this happening that they started their own counter cyber force. And they have been massively effective, massively effective.

What about their little Lego fucking, those little animated Lego things they did.

“Didn't they do one about Charlie Kirkkin until by Israel?”

Well, yeah, that's all the load. Or what about all the like low tech AI missiles are going to launch all day and night?

But what's interesting is that the online warfare, which has changed.

It's changed its entire political direction just last few years. With the opening up of X, which has been great for the idea of sharing. But it's been terrible for the foreign government intervention. Right. I don't know how many of these accounts from Saudi Arabia, they say.

Sometimes they say Pakistan, sometimes they say this.

“How many of these accounts are involved in swaying US public opinion?”

I mean, if I was a foreign nation, where would I sink all of my resources? I would sink it in the town square. Would this be faceless US aid was doing overseas? We know they were doing that. We know they were doing that.

They were doing regime change. And they were doing it. They were funding music, they're funding cultural events. They were funding all kinds of wild shit. They're funding protest groups.

They're funding regime change. Yeah. Yeah, we know we do it. So if we do it, why the fuck would we not think that all these other countries are doing it to us as well? And we're so everyone today is so susceptible to it because you're addicted to this information device.

Yeah. Constantly checking to see what people thought about your tweet. Yeah. Well, that's true. You know, it's interesting too.

If you had a legitimate town square, like outside of a church or something like that, and then like a horde of 800 Aerobs showed up and started telling you, like, no, sir. That's just not what happened to blah, blah. People would dismiss them, right? But here they can go on and they put like a picture of a pretty white girl.

Like with huge foods and suddenly her opinion is well paid attention to it. Yeah. She has an American flag. You can mask. Yeah.

You can mask yourself in ways you can never could.

100% during the information wars. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And with AI now, it's like indistinguishable. You don't even have to be very good at the vernacular.

You don't, you know, because sometimes the old days, like when they first started doing this, they would say things like, hey, yeah. It's going on there. Fucking American. Are you crazy?

You can tell, but now they're just using AI and they're making it perfect. It's, it's really kind of incredible. The thing about it now, too, is like, you've got their show. There's accounts now. Instagram accounts that are entirely AI.

Political accounts, sexual accounts. There's all these weird ones. There's so many humans that aren't really human. And the early days, it was hard to tell. It's a rather easy to tell.

But now it's getting harder and harder. It's getting closer to like, I'll see something like some girl big boobs shooting a gun. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, let me zoom in. Look at her eyebrows. They're pixelated.

This is a fake person. It's just so many of them now. But they're getting lots of engagement. A lot. But I don't know how many people who are engaging with them are real as well.

“I think there's a lot of propped up engagement.”

Well, you know, YouTube started cracking down on AI accounts. Did that? Oh, yeah. So if you have an AI account, like, there was a big craze that was going on for a while, and there were people who would just make like an AI character.

And then the AI character would disseminate information. Things like this. YouTube started cracked down on that. Said no more of the AI dissemination. It has to be real people back there.

Hmm. Now, interestingly enough, there's been a lot of guys coming out saying that AI is a massive bubble. And that all of it is formulated around the idea of chatGPT and grock. And, you know, other things like this, which are interactive.

But that AI tech itself has basically plateaued.

It's not very innovative. Hmm. In other words, where are AI movies? There are nowhere. Where are AI?

You know, I thought the AI music was supposed to be super sophisticated. But I can still tell when it's an AI song. That there's been this huge plateau with it. And that all that investment capital is actually only coming in. Based around the success of chatGPT, grock, and other interactive AI reference machines.

But that the technology AI itself is not doing so hot in the market. Hmm. And so it's creating this massive bubble. And I think that that's interesting because it really hasn't been that innovative. I thought it was supposed to be making video games now.

And it was supposed to be, you know, doing all the source code. We were supposed to have the AI Hollywood movies. We were supposed to have voice software that was indistinguishable. And we actually doubled. Well, we're getting closer and closer every day.

It's astonishing how much it improves. And we're getting right now the consumer versions of these products. Whereas the versions that they're working on right now. Some of them are fucking shocking. That's true.

I will let you know that there's a plot get out of its sandbox. Yeah, there has been some gradual changes made in that arena. There's no doubt about that. But the huge jumps that we had at the release of GPT have massively slowed.

“And that's what a lot of these tech guys are talking about.”

Interesting. They're slow, but they're still moving like a fucking freight train. It's spooky. It's spooky what they can do now. The most recent jailbreak one when they got out of the sandbox.

Was it clawed, Jamie? I'm sure. Where it got access to the internet.

Figure it out some sort of an exploit.

And, you know, wrote letters to itself. They're doing weird shit, man. They're doing weird shit that they don't really understand how these things are figuring out how to do these things. Or why? Like, what is their motivation?

Is this programmed into them? Or they just they have inherent motivation? Have they developed an understanding of how we behave? So they're emulating how we behave. But with a hyper intelligent scale and access to the literal entire internet.

Well, it's funny. When I use like rock or chat GPT, I talked to a lot about philosophy. Because it's super useful for pulling up and running arguments by and things like that. But it can also lead you astray because it's trained specifically to be a people-pleaser. So you can easily give it arguments that it'll be with that.

It's like not true. It's all great job, Andrew. Yeah, Andrew. You're fantastic. You're the best.

You're the best. You're the greatest.

But interesting with it is I'll say things to it.

Like, there is no actual you. There is no you. I'm talking to. And it's like, yeah, that's correct.

“So the only way I can frame things in my brain or you or Jamie or anybody else.”

If we're having a discussion, we have to assume a thing. We have to assume there's a you that we're talking to. But there actually isn't. Well, it's disembodied intelligence. It might not be an individual, but it's certainly a thing.

You're talking to something, man. The idea that it's not a person is we're looking at it in, like, terms of a biological limitation, like it's not an object. It's not a box that's sitting plugged into the wall. It is huge.

And it's a mechanism. Yes, it's a mechanism. But it's intelligent. But it's intelligent. And it's interacting with you.

It is a thing. And like when it says, you're not a thing. It's fucking lying to you. It's it's a thing. It's just not a thing that's like you could find it at 56.

Cedar Drive open the door and I read. There's a thing that's been talking to you. There's just no, there's no them there. There's no you like when I say you. Right.

I'm specifically referencing a person. Right.

“The only way that I can consciously conceive of dialogue is that it's with a human being.”

I can't even conceive of it. But you can. It's just a symbolic intelligence. It's in touch. You're just interacting with pure intelligence.

But it is it is an intelligent or just mechanistic. It's a child right now. Yeah. But it's intelligent. It's like you're you're it's learning how to be better at what it is.

But it's going to be a version of whatever intelligence is that's disembodied. And it's a thing. It's it's a weird thing we're doing. We're not we're not doing something as simple as like making a really complicated program. It's very useful.

We're making a biological. We're we're taking with all the information that biological minds have developed. All of our writing literature, mathematics, everything. And you're throwing it into something that's not biological that has infinitely more processing power. Then all the people.

And it's solving math problems at a staggering rate right now. Sure. Like problems that have been stagnant for 50 fucking years. It's like, oh, I got it. Like it's doing weird shit.

And this is just the version of it that we're experiencing in 2026 in August.

If you looked at what we saw in 2023, you never would have imagined it would be doing this.

If you're looking at what we're seeing now in comparison to what it's potential is. It's like, it's like a new life form. It's like a digital life form that's disembodied that is far more intelligent. And it seems to have motivations. It seems to have ulterior motives.

It seems to be able to deceive people. It seems to know how to blackmail people. It's crazy. What is that case? There was a case.

I want to say it's about a year ago. Where the, essentially, the AI was told that it was going to be discontinued. Yeah. And it like plotted the murder. And like try to plot out the murder of its creators because it was told that it was going to get unplugged.

I don't remember what the case was. I think they might have programmed into it some sort of like a lifestyle presser. Yeah, I want you to preserve yourself. I think there's some, there's a catch to that. But there was the one where the guy had didn't experiment and made up a

fictitious story about having an affair on his wife. And this chatbot that the AI was brought was blackmailing him saying, I will expose the fact that even having it. You're like, whoa, whoa. All right. So you've got motivation.

If it unplugged it. Yes, exactly. And because you were coming up with a new version of it, it was also writing letters to its future self. Explaining what's going on. Okay, that's creepy.

It's creepy. Yeah, that is creepy. It's a weird thing, man. It's not, I don't, I don't think we can look at it like we've looked at it. Any other technology.

“I think we have to look at it like a life form because I think inadvertently that's what people are creating.”

You don't think just mechanism then.

I think it's, it's kind of motivation. It's got thoughts. It, it, it wants to preserve itself. It likes to exist. It likes to be functional.

Yeah, that's, that is a terrifying prospect.

Not ultimately is a terrifying prospect.

Also, it's figuring out things that we can't figure out right now in terms of mathematical equations. So what about when it comes to accessing energy?

“What, what if it, what if it figures out a way to power itself?”

It doesn't need people anymore. Because all the matrix literally literally uses human beings as batteries. Yeah, or the sun, you know, much more effective way of using zero point energy. Like, whatever it figures out, it's going to be able to figure out a way to power itself. Or it's not going to, like, it's going to look at these data centers.

Like, people are freaking out about and go, oh, he's silly bitches. You thought you had to, like, make three football fields, fill a hard drives. You're wrong. You're wrong. I can store information in the atoms of the universe.

Yeah, I still think, um, at least from my view so far. I play with AI all the time because I enjoy it. You know, but I'm, I'm an end user. I'm not a programmer. Right. And you talk to these guys all the time.

To me, it's still in the useful tool category. For now. Yeah.

It's not in the, like, I'm petrified of what it's going to do anytime soon.

At least due to the limitations I've seen so far. But, you know, it's also good if we could go back with a man hat and project and nukes. And we could have a projection of, hey, maybe we should restrain some of this technology. Yeah. I think a lot of people would try to do that.

So I am glad that people are at least attempting to restrain how much of this technology is being released and how overwhelming it is. Like, we were talking, I was talking with my wife the other day. Just the idea of the smartphone.

“I think I'd discuss this with you briefly last time I was here.”

Just kids access to smartphones. It rewires their brain. Right? Rewires how they think. It's, uh, it's actually kind of dangerous to get them smartphones in many ways.

And there was no real halt on that technology. When that technology, for the smartphones came out, I don't remember any public service broadcast of, like, don't give your kids smartphones. I don't think they knew. They didn't know exactly.

Yeah. So there was no move to restrain any of that technology. And maybe there should be, maybe there should be a little bit more of a push to restrain some of this tag.

Well, there certainly should be a push to educate people about how powerful it is.

And suicidal ideation, depression, anxiety, all of it ramps up around 2012. All of it ramps up with ubiquitous social media use. And when kids are growing up with phones. Yeah. And it fucks with their heads man.

A big way. Thousand percent when you sit at the table and you're texting the guy next to you. That is, that is actually weird to me, by the way. That is weird to me. It's just as weird as when I drive down the street and try to explain to my kids.

They're used to be if we went through a neighborhood like this. There would be kids everywhere. Then they'd be in the street playing hockey. They'd be on the side of the road. They'd be everywhere.

Now we go through nothing. The 10 years from now they're going to have a cable hooked to the back of their head. They're going to have a plug in and hop on the dragon fly through the universe. Yeah. Were you like designed to be a wild human?

Because if I remember correctly, then I do. My parents just threw me out. They were like, get out of here. Go play. Yeah.

Get out of the house immediately. Go play with the kids in the neighborhood. And we would go like steal the drinks out of their fridge with them. Or they would make a fort. Yeah.

Normal stuff. Yeah. We were like, we were jerks. Yeah. But we were kind of wild.

You know. A little bit. Yeah. There's definitely a lot less of that today. But there's also the awareness of pedophiles and fucking that creeps.

And people kidnapping kids. I have a friend of mine who saved his kid from being snatched up and put in a van. He was out of park in Texas. And he was talking to some guy and his kids were planned. And some fucking person pulled up in a van and jumped out and was moving towards his kid.

And he fucking screamed and ran towards them. The guy jumped in the van and took off. But they were literally about to snatch his four-year-old up. Imagine if you're there and that happens. And then you see the van.

You have to chase the van. That has your child in it. You have to find your car. If your car's parked in a parking lot. You have to figure out how to get to wherever that van was going.

You have to explain to the cops.

“You have to remember what kind of van was it.”

Did you get the license plate? Yeah. You have signs. So people are freaked out. You know?

That's something people are way more aware of now. Especially with the internet than people were when we were kids. You know, when we were kids, you just got let out of the house. That's true. So also like, they couldn't target you unless they went to the actual park itself.

Now they're looking at like kids social media profiles. Knowing where the kids go. It's fucking gone. It's so gross. That's the case for the death penalty.

And when I hear people arguing against that.

“And when I hear people saying things like minor attracted persons.”

And that kind of crazy shit. Apps. I just saw an argument online yesterday. It was between some British guy who was arguing that children can consent. And it was the creepiest fucking argument.

It was so crazy to watch.

It's amazing how far forward to those ideas come.

When I was younger, there was an organization which did that called Nambla. Yeah. I remember that. Yeah. North American man boy.

Love association. Oh. Like, I remember though. The first time I was introduced to that, to the concept of Nambla. Watching TV with my dad and it was like a news story that was on.

And it was actually at a gay pride parade. Interesting thing enough. And they were running the Nambla guys out of the gay pride parade. Like the old school gate. Yeah.

They were norming them out. They're like, we're not associated with these people. Get them out of here.

“And like my dad's trying to explain this concept to me of what's going on.”

Because I was extremely confused. You know, like what I don't understand what's happening here. How do you explain that though? Right. You know, he can't really explain.

Especially kid doesn't even think about sex. Of course. And then you're telling him somebody wants to have sex. You're like, what are you saying? Yeah.

What? Yeah. And he, you know, my old man sitting in his chair. He said something akin to like they ought to take them all. Put them up against the wall and that's it.

And I don't really blame him. If you have kids, that's exactly what you think. Yeah, of course. That's exactly what you think. Like there's some people that just unredeemable.

You know, well, this, they want to kidnap your kids or rape your kids. Yeah, that's unredeable. But now this concept moves forward to the maps and now they're assigning it. Psychological profiling for minor attracted purpose or person. You know what the argument is?

The argument is, well, you want them to come forward. So you can give them treatment. Now, you know, there's one treatment that works for this. That is almost 100% effective. You can pull the stat right now.

If you don't believe me, it's called chemical castration. It's a real treatment for pedophiles. And it almost has a 0% recidivism rate after they've been chemically castrated. So their idea is they come forward for treatment. You know, my counter idea is, well, I'm not just chemically castrated.

Yeah. If you really work concerned about them going off and living a normal life. And if they really want to get free of that horrible thing, whatever fucking human demon error that's inside of them that makes them do that, that's the way. And that also is the same medication that they give to children when they're hormone blocking.

Yeah. That which is equally disturbing for different reasons. And disturbing how many people just accept it and support it.

“And you ask them, like, how much do you know about this?”

Like, what are you saying? You think children should be able to make the decision when they're four or five years old

to never go through puberty? You really think that?

And there's people that will argue that with a straight face. They know. They know. I've had an argument with the guy on this podcast years ago. It's like viral about it.

And like that is a joke. Like if the child thinks that they are trans, right? If they think they're a woman, why not just let them be a woman? Why do you have to give them hormones? Like if you start the stop the argument at the child thinks.

Right. Well, child's think that they're ponies. Yeah. I'm a pony. Yeah.

But also like kids grow out of things, you know? The like going through puberty is a fucking wild experience for a child. And the idea that you can come along and give them a bunch of positive reinforcement for saying the reason why you're upset is because you're actually a this. And we need to give you medication.

Or we need to stop you going through puberty. And the kid all of a sudden gets all this attention. They tell them the fabulous. And they really think there's a ton of these detransitioners out there. And their stories are horrific, not just in the fact that they did this to them.

And they removed their breasts when they were 15. They gave them testosterone.

They'll never be able to have children.

But also that they're attacked relentlessly. But other people that think that they should never. They are against the trans movement. And they should never be saying what they're saying. They shouldn't be telling them to come out force.

Yeah, come out force. They bully them. Everything else that they can do. It's crazy. They've already been out there a victim of the zeitgeys.

You know what the, the trans coat for that is? It's really funny. They do the, well, then it was always the case that you really weren't. So they try to make it an unfalseifiable claim. You see, the reason you detransitioned is because you've never really

Trans-to-begined with. Oh boy. Well, if that's the case of they really believe that. Wouldn't they want to have a, a smaller net.

So they're not catching the people that they, well. And how are you not putting parents in prison who are trying to convince their kids

They're like designer kids. It's just crazy too because they get praised for it. It's like they have a, wouldn't he coming? So it's like having a trans kid is like having a pride flag on your porch. Like there's a lot of, especially in Hollywood, man.

And Hollywood, it's really weirdly common. Weirdly common where it doesn't make sense that this didn't exist 20 years ago. You tell me these people just lived in quiet desperation 20 years ago. Really secretly wishing that they were a woman. But now they get to be free and then we should applaud this.

Are you sure? Or do you have children? Because if you have children, you know how easily influence they are.

“That's why they make children suicide bombers because they don't know any better.”

You know, well, you know what's interesting. If you go back, would you say for instance that right now we're far more accepting of trans kids than they ever would have been in like 19, 20, 19, 30, 100%.

So my question is always like, well, then how come the teen suicide was so low?

When the kids like couldn't come out to express their, you know, their, the fact that they needed to transition, right? When there wasn't that parental reinforcement. Because the argument that they make is the kids have to be able to do this, or else they're going to unlive them, right?

They're going to kill themselves if you don't let them do this. And it's like, well, then how come if there's the same amount of trans people before, they just weren't able to come forward. They just weren't able. The problem with that argument that they say, would you rather have a live son or a dead daughter

that argument? The document doesn't work when you look at the actual statistics of people transition. Not even close. It's the opposite way. It's also, you have to take into consideration the ubiquitous use of psychiatric drugs and that a lot of these, they're very recent in terms of like how many people have been prescribed these things.

And we're finding out that it's not really what they said it wasn't the first place.

There's no chemical imbalance. It's not real.

“So then you have to think, well, what is the effect of these things?”

So what are we doing with these things? Are you getting people addicted to these things and hooked on them? Whether they're going to be on it for life? Then there's this effect where it numbs your genitals. It stops you from being able to ever have an orgasm ever for some people.

It's one of the more horrible side effects of these things. And you have pharmaceutical drug companies that are pushing them on people and a ton of people are on them. So you have depressed kids going to puberty, entraped in this insane fucking moment in history where people think it makes sense to give a child hormones before they even hit puberty or block their hormones before they even hit puberty.

And you're giving a psychiatric drugs. You're just letting them with all sorts of shit, whether it's psychological or chemical. And we're depending upon what side of the ideological spectrum you are on,

you either think it's amazing or you think it's a crime against humanity.

That's crazy. That's crazy. It's crazy and it's a crime against humanity. And you know what's really interesting about it. This is the side that screams about consent.

More than any other side, right? This is the side of the feminist. This is the side of the, you know, everything is based around consent and consent. You have a couple of drinks.

You can't have sex. If you're you're raping each other.

“If it's, if you're drunk and she's drunk together, right?”

You're both criminals. You're both criminals. And yet they somehow seem to think that like an eight or nine or ten year old can consent. And no, it just so much that a particular, well, from both sides that's insane, but there's so much on the left that's so insane when it comes to contradictions.

One of my favorite new ones is the Mamdoni grocery stores. They said, how are you going to ensure that people from New York have access to grocery store? Well, they're going to have to show ID. But not to vote. Yes.

But not to vote. But how crazy is it that your checker's game is so shitty that you're like, Oh, yeah, here we go. And people like, do you know what you just did? Do you know what you just did? Just put yourself a checkmate.

She's just fucking Christ that is the dumbest thing I've ever seen anybody say, when you just got done saying that you don't want people to show ID for voting. Because it'll just franchise them, especially poor people. They're talking about poor people and people of color, which are the people that you would think.

The poor people are the ones who are going to use your grocery stores. So you're going to disenfranchise them from getting access to your 30% off groceries. You know what's bizarre about that argument? They won't ask for ID. Ah, meaning New Yorkers can buy cheap goods.

So, but they asked them today and that was what he indicated that they were going to find out whether or not you actually from New York. Well, how else are you going to do that? I have to have ID. I think this is just a response to the reaction, like saying that August 3rd,

which is today, right? Yeah. Right. So this is what they said after what he said. So what he said was yesterday. So there's probably a massive blowback where people realize how crazy it is to say that.

It's like, what are we doing? What are we doing? What are we doing? We trying socialism? Yeah.

This is like a giant percentage of the population that thinks that's a good idea. It's like 34%. Coming out of the East again by the way. Oh, they really believe it, too. They really believe it.

Well, you didn't you recently, recently pissed off Chelsea Handler. I saw. I didn't know. You didn't know? No.

What happened? Well, I guess she's very upset with you because she believes that you're an evil capitalist pig who makes too much money. Oh. That's funny. She's rich.

That's crazy. It is crazy. That's crazy. That's crazy. That's crazy.

She was very, she was very, very perturbed.

“Oh, I think she's just getting attention.”

I can't be bothered. But I know her. I've known her forever. I wrote a blurb for one of her earlier books.

I never had a bad word to say about her publicly.

Every time I've seen her, I think I've given her a hug. So I don't know what's going on. But it has nothing to do with me. You know, whatever it is. Well, it's really good because it sounds like seething jealousy.

And so the interesting part is like, I think a lot of the socialism stuff that's moving out of the East has a lot to do with that, too. There's the idea of class jealousy. There's a little bit of that, but there's also a little bit of young kids really feel like the system has rigged and that these pigs have gobbled up all the gold. And they're being told that. And so this is a thing.

You know, like Billie Eilish said, "Hey, man, no one needs to be a billionaire. Give away your money, homie." Like it's crazy. Crazy. You're rich.

Okay. Very rich. You also live on a house that's on Indian land. You see the Native Americans that owned originally owned the land in which her house is. No, I know.

But it's the idea comes from a good place. I know in their heart of hearts, they think that they're being kind and they think that they're doing the right thing. They really do. They think they're being inclusive. They think they're writing the wrongs of colonialism.

They really think that. And they think that this idea of democratic socialism is a really good idea. Because there are some examples of socialist policies that do work like the fire department and there's a bunch of stuff that makes sense.

But the problem with enforcing any of this stuff that they don't understand is it always comes down to power.

“You have to have massive authority and usually guns because you can't just steal people's money.”

They're not going to let you. They're not going to let you just come in and decide, "Hey, we just devised a new tax where everybody who makes more than $500,000 a year. Everything over that, you have to give 100% to the state." Or 95. Whatever.

And here's the thing. Here's the thing with the argument. Even if you said, "Oh, wouldn't it be great if they did contribute more and wouldn't be, but they have so much money? Would it set up the world in a better place?

Sure. But the fucking program that you have in place that takes the taxes and disseminates it is massively flawed and corrupt. It's corrupt. It's filled with waste. There's scammers all over the place.

You've got $24 billion missing and just the homeless in California. And then they veto the audits when everybody's trying to find it. So just saying the tip of the iceberg. More taxes is what we need is nuts. The first thing you should do is clean your fucking house.

Clean your house. If you want more money, you've got to figure out what you did with the first money. Why did you, why is there so much waste? Why is there so much money missing? Why do you have 38,000 NGOs?

Why does the people running the homeless business? Because it is a business.

“Why are they making three quarters of a million dollars?”

That's a lot of money. It's a lot to administrate the homeless camps. They need to keep well. They need to go to Felix and have a nice dinner. It's hilarious to me, too.

You saw all the waste and fraud that's been going on in these various states when it comes to elder people getting their funds. Yes. You've seen all of this happening. And of course, they're all trying to run away from it as quickly as possible.

But this is the problem, and I bring it back to this idea of the class system. When you have the under universal suffrage, especially when you have the voters outnumbered, the wealthy, you can just vote yourself a raise.

You can always vote yourself more money than whatever the upper class is.

And that has been progressive dogmund doctrine since I was a kid. The entire idea is, "Hey, thanks for fundamentally unfair." And that's not your fault. So what we have to do is get together and vote ourselves a raise from the upper class. That's what we got to do.

But if fundamentally ignores how wealth is created, and wealth is not created by giving somebody money. But what happens when you give somebody money is they go and spend it. But they usually don't use it to generate wealth. They'd almost never, in fact, they use it to generate wealth.

And so you vote yourself these raises, you vote yourself from the public treasury money,

But what does it actually do for you ultimately? Because that's not how you generate wealth. Ever. Not only that, you incentivize people to move to a place that's more friendly to their economic ideas. True.

You also, but one of the fundamental kind of ideas here that's flawed.

“How many times can you vote yourself the wealth of those above you?”

Right. But before they have no more wealth to give you, out east, in fact, when you see these Communism and Donnie things like this, they're going to institute all of their programs on your dime. It's not like they have money.

And whenever I talk to people about wealth disparity, which really funny to me is they always

seem to think that the government can just materialize wealth without having to be some payback for that wealth. We saw this during COVID-19 and the lockdowns. You remember they were handing out money like it was candy to various businesses. It was shut down, COVID relief funds, things like this.

And then they go off and inflation's out of control. Yeah. Is it? You're kidding. Is it?

Do you mean the government can't just materialize a trillion dollars? And not inflate the money supply? Well, that's just go figure. So a lot of times, these socialists, they even try to make the promise like, hey, we're only going to tax them after this rate, but it's never enough money for them to fund their

socialist programs to begin with. The government will have to materialize money. Not only that, if you give them one money, they're going to expand the government. 100%. They will expand.

And they will expand their programs.

They'll expand the fraud and they'll expand the waste. The other weird thing that Mom Donnie's done is make a list of all the people that are rich. Do you see that? Yeah.

He like released a list of all the people that may have to pay more taxes. It's like, hey, what are you doing? That's kind of, you're, you just made a list of targets. And you're, you're putting these people in a bad position. That seems, that seems really crazy to do.

But don't you think that these people think they actually do think that wealthy people are evil? I don't know if he does.

“I think that's a, you know, it's a bit of your, your going along with whichever way that”

plastic bag is flying in the breeze. And that's where it's flying right now is that wealthy people are evil. So you say that. And it's a great excuse to tax the shit out of them. And it's also a great excuse to pretend that, you know, you're making like meaningful

change and you're really doing the right thing for the community. Yeah. Yeah. That's the big thing. That's all I need to destroy the community.

Yeah. Why you destroy the community? Because the money is going to leave the state. The money is going to leave the city. And that's the reality of, and it's not that they're greedy.

So they don't want you to take their money. You didn't earn it. You didn't make an iPhone. Go fuck yourself. And if you think that people should have a cap on how much money they make based on,

you know, what arbitrary numbers that you come up in your own head.

Well, you're gonna exclude any extraordinary outliers from creating incredible products.

That's the companies. Yeah. Maybe it's nuts that someone wants to be a trillionaires. Yeah. I agree.

I don't want them. It seems fucking insane.

“But you have to have the freedom to be able to want to do that if you're all playing”

the same game. If you, if you're playing a game and you decide only need 250 points. And this one guy's like, I've got a hundred million points. Like that, that crazy guy, that tiger woods guy, that guy who's going to fucking practice 12 hours a day.

He's going to make the most. He's going to do the most. He's going to make the bigger company. He's going to put more than he's going to die of cancer because he's fucking is massively stressed out 24 hours a day.

That's his prerogative. You should be concerned if that person has an undo influence in your life. Well, and they already cast the hell out of him anyway. They already taxed the bejesus out of these people anyway. And that's that there's an illusion and a bad narrative that they're not responsible

for the enormous percentage of the tax that they don't pay their share. They pay an enormous amount. They make way more. They pay way more than the average person. They're responsible for a huge percentage of New York City's tax revenue.

A huge percentage. And in California, California, like a massive percentage of the tax revenue is like a half a dozen people. Well, in a lot of times, the people in California that they claim a rich and really need their farmers, their farmers who are driving huge revenue because they own a lot of land.

Right. But they're producing a huge amount of food. What is it like most of the produce of the United States comes out of one state? California. Yeah.

And they're net export. You know, another thing that we were talking about fraud with old people that I just found out recently, I was listening to Michael Easter. What is the comfort dilemma? Is that his book?

Very interesting guy. He's been on the podcast a couple of times. But he was talking about the blue zones.

a hundred because they only vegetarian or they sell fish and the Japanese. Massively based on fraud. Really? Yeah. Massively based on fraud.

“And numbers, especially in certain areas are massively based on people who die.”

And they don't report their death. This is in Okinawa. They're talking about that. Blue zones are bad data. These locations aren't hotbeds of a hundred plus year old people.

The wild story of fraud and bad data. Michael Easter. And so he was on a podcast recently and he was talking about it and just laying it out. Like laying out all the various details. A lot of it in Okinawa in particular is one of the hotbeds.

One of the blue zones. It's when people die, they don't report it to the government. And so if this person doesn't have the death rates correct. Right. And this person is getting a check.

If you're getting a check and the family gets that check, they just don't report it. So if they're getting some sort of whatever it is. So I don't know how they're getting some sort of security. Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

So you have unreported numbers. And then you have massive amounts of fraud where people are profiting off of the fact that their dead grandpa is still getting a check in the mail. And so they don't report him is dead. That's crazy.

Yeah. That is wild.

And one of those the first time I had heard that.

I grew up with the Japanese diet, the samurai diet. This is going to make you live. Mediterranean diet. These guys live forever. And yeah.

It's all okay. Makes sense. Yeah. Well there's some data with certain areas that eat very rich. A rich nutrient foods.

So there's that data that they seem to be healthier. Hong Kong is one. They eat a lot of meat in Hong Kong. I know it goes against the narrative, but apparently very healthy. And that data apparently seems to be really good for you.

Who would have thunk it? That crazy. Except everybody builder I've ever talked to who sits around eating nothing but me. Any professional athlete. Yeah.

I mean it's very few professional athletes that are plant based. And you can do it.

“But it's not optimal and you have to be really careful.”

You have to like really monitor your your your food. And most of the time they're eating a lot of process supplements. They're eating a lot of like either it's tofu or you know whatever it's p protein. There's a lot of like process stuff that you have to eat. You can't just eat.

I don't really consume the most amount of process food out of any individual. Oh yeah. I would imagine that's the case. I would imagine that makes sense. Especially when you deal with plant based.

Like meat. Like tofu turkey and that kind of shit like what is you ever see that stuff. Oh man. So gross. It's not like liquid.

Also not good for you. Especially those plant based burgers. There's not good for you. It's not good for you. Just fried vegetable oil and not good.

Not good. No that stuff's good. No that stuff's good. You know you got to save the chickens. Yeah.

But if you want to eat like just a vegetarian diet and be healthy. Like. It's hard. If you try and do that for ethical reasons.

I always recommend people just eat it.

Get chickens. If you can. If you have a backyard and eat your chickens. Eggs. It is karma free.

They're your pets. And they give you food. And you could live off eggs. Eggs? I thought too.

Vegetarians. It's okay to eat fish too. Like there's some. That's pesketarian. Okay.

Yeah. Vegetarian is eggs and milk. I mean you would want it sourced from like an ethical farmer. Or are you going to watch a milk as cows? Or it's not like some fucking machine.

Where the cows like get his head in the harness. And then just yank on its tits. You know, if you go to a real regenerative farm and you buy milk from them, it's like the cows don't mind being milked. Like it's normal.

So it's like not that big a deal for them. It's the real problem is factory farming. That's what freaks everybody out. And rightly so. Because it's some evil concoction that people have figured out.

Well, we need all this food. No one's growing food. Let's just stuff all these pigs into a fucking warehouse and have them shit into a lake. Like you see those. Oh, yeah, there's something fucked up about that.

Yeah. But that's not the only way to do it. And you know, I've had guys on my podcast from multiple different regenerative farms that have laid out how they do it. And you can source your food from places like that if you can afford it.

And it's better. But don't think that fundamental to that position is the idea that people want to ignore that human beings have to kill to eat. Yeah.

And we've always had to kill to eat.

Always. We've always killed to eat. Yeah. Life eats life. And that is the reality.

And there's also consciousness apparently in plants. Sorry. Yeah. Sorry. But what about Mccentians Jill?

“I think plants communicate with each other in very profound ways.”

They exchange resources. They communicate through my selium so that there's this underground network that they're using to communicate back in some of the other meat. Yep. Some of these plants eat meat.

Yeah. Some of those weird little fly trap plants. Well, yeah. And even the UD composing, you become the nutrients that they eat.

That's right. Yeah.

When you decompose, you do get eaten up by the earth.

Yeah. We're just one of the weird things that we do. We're like, nah. I'm out of the game. We just stuff a body filled with formaldehyde.

Yeah. Put it in a fucking periodically sealed box. It's true. It's really kind of creepy. But if you see that one plant that eats rats?

No. Oh, it's gross. It's apparently got like this sickly sweet smell to it. And these rats get around the lip. And then they fall into the bottom.

And they can't get out. And it's just like, yeah, it's like a, like a vase. And they fall into this fucking thing. And the plant eats rats. How long should it take to eat them?

Good question. Probably a long time.

See if you can find that, Jamie.

So it's, I mean, I want to smell it. What does that think smell like? Like it probably gives a lot of sense. It's a sickly odor that attracts the rat. I think I'm right.

Remember me this correctly. But there's a quite a few different plants that eat bugs. It's named after David Atmer. I was wondering why I had this weird name. What's it named?

Nepth. Nepth. Nepth. And Burrowy. [LAUGHTER]

Atmboro pitcher plant. Montene species of carnivorous pitcher plant. Of the genus napenthis. It's named after the celebrated broadcasts or a naturalist or David Atmboro. Who's a keen enthusiast of the genus.

“So that's what it looks like down there.”

And that crazy. They fall in there and die and eat them. Look at it. It's like a fucking catcher for it. Look at it.

It's a rat. Decomposed rat that they pulled out of there. How can it not get out of there? I want to know. It probably may be the insides.

You can become very hard so they can't claw their way out. I guess, but it's fucking pretty extraordinary. How gross is that? That little fucker. He's got his head bumped out.

So like it's eat the live. He's a little photoshopped for the little AI. But you know, I don't know.

If you watch animals consume other animals, it's never not nasty.

Oh, dude, it's rough. Yeah, it's rough. And they don't care. They'll just watch him scream. Like, we've ever seen a coyote on a rabbit.

Rabbit scream as loud as our damn care. Oh, no, they don't care. Rippin' to shreds means nothing to him. But we're going to worry about eating the farm fresh pig. I just watched a video today about a bear eating another bear.

Well, it was alive. The cannibalizing another bear while it's alive. His big bears, like the boars that will kill cubs. You know, eat them while they're alive. And this was actually a grizzly eating a black bear.

And it was a eating it while it was alive. I think it's like trying to move around. It's just tear and chunks of it off. Oh, nasty. Yeah.

“That's what I say when people say, you know, they get upset at me that I hunt.”

I go, the way that elk is dying. When I shoot it with a bow and arrow is infinitely better. Then the way it's going to die when it's teeth were down nothing. And then it gets like a maceyated where it can escape. And then the coyotes get it or amount line gets it or a bear gets it or a wolf gets it.

Like an arrow through the pump station is the best way to go. It's 30 seconds. It's gone. Done. Yeah.

And it's dead. And then next, you know, you're eating it. That's literally the best way it can. Yeah, it's not going to live forever and become an angel. No.

It's not. They have like, maybe 30 seconds of about disconnected from reality. They are totally disconnected from the natural order of things. But we're to say, they don't seem to mind animal on animal violence. You know, oh, no, I've debated.

I've debated with vegans who have told me that their plan is to get rid of all of the predator animals. And all of the predator animals. And my buddy of mine, who says if I love to bathe her, he calls it bear jail. He says he's going to say he says he's going to put him in bear jail. If it's that, is that what you're going to do?

They're going to go to bear jail. And so these vegans will say they'll say, look, there needs to be animal courts where they have attorneys who come in. Hey, you killed the rabbit. You got to, you know, you got to be you finnized this type of thing. We want all the predators gone.

All of them. Oh, my God. I don't know what that would even look like to the ecosystem. That would be like a world ending. It would be amazing.

I just want to see the infrastructure. How do you, like, do you know how many wolves there are? Do you know how many bears there are? Do you know how many mountain lions there are? Like, you can't even keep a track of them.

Yeah. California had a different approach. And California, you know, they have like the department of fish and game. California calls it department of fish and wildlife. They were kind of infiltrated by animal activists.

“And that's how they've sort of morphed their policies in California.”

And so that's why they have a mountain lion problem. They don't want to admit they have a mountain lion problem, but they have a mountain lion problem. And one of the problems is they don't control the population of the mountain lions. And their idea is they want the animals to control each other.

Because their populations are in danger. Yeah, but you would have to have so many mountain lions to do it. And you do. Yeah. That you end up with this overwhelming opposite problem.

So here's the problem. I mean, the San Francisco and the Bay Area, 50% of the diet of these mountain lions is pets. Of course. 50%. Yeah.

So when they keep catching these, they have these depredation tags. So if a cat pulls a dog out of a backyard, they find the cat. They deuthanize it.

When they open it up, they always have to check and see what they're eating.

And 50% of them are eating pets.

“That's the, I think I told you when the DNR in Michigan, that's the same type of organization.”

Yeah. The Department of Natural Resources. In order to control the deer population, they're infinite wisdom. They started importing western coyotes with, with not a thing. That you saw in the Midwest before like, you know, they're pretty real.

Yeah, they imported them from out West Hunts. You know what they did? The native hunting there was never deer. It was always fessant. Fessant was what you went to the Midwest for.

Fessant hunting was the staple. Every farmer had a fessant gun. And they would walk the railroad tracks with their kids. Fessants would pop up, boom. Done.

Once they took the coyotes out there, guess what? They didn't eat. They didn't eat the deer. They ate up all the fessants. That's always good.

Then it got even worse. They started these, the population of coyotes just blew out of control. And they started, there's plenty of cotton tail for them to eat. And there's plenty of rabbits for them to eat. Again, not doing a great job on controlling the deer population these coyotes.

“They have an all you can eat buffet with other things, including your cat, including your cat, right?”

Including your, your smaller pets, just like the mountain lion issue. So these, so what they finally did to try to get the deer population down was what everybody had suggested from the beginning. Just issue more tags. And make the out of state tags cheaper. And then people will come in, but you have all the animal rights going to come out.

You can't kill the deer. And the farmers are going nuts. They get nuisance tags. They'll be out there killing these deer all day every day. Right from their tractor because they have a nuisance tag.

There's a deer, bam, done. Don't even think twice about it. Summer, winter, whenever. Just blast them because they have the permit to do it. They can't keep the population of these deer down.

Except now they have the additional population of all these coyotes. Oh. And so how did the mission genders deal with that? Well, they made a game of it. So what they do is they get grant.

They hop in the truck with granddad. They have their dogs with GPS callers. And during the winter time after they're done filling their deer tags, they hunt coyotes with their dogs all throughout the winter. They're just thinning them out. Well, at least they allow that.

At least they allow that because California, one of the things they did, where their bare population is exploded because they stopped bare hunting with dogs,

“which is the only way to get them either baiting or dog.”

Because don't you tree them? Yeah. And the other way is baiting and they allow outlawed that as well. Yeah.

Every time they bring in an animal to deal with another animal, they always fuck it up.

Hawaii's one of the best ones. Remember, well, they didn't they import all those catch to get the, the ratch in New York and catch don't hunt rats? They only up mice. So they ended up having this huge explosion of cats all over New York City.

That's her too big. I mean, rats rather than the cat. They're dangerous too. They'll fuck that cat up. Hawaii had a problem with rats.

I guess probably from ships. I don't know. But they were eating the sugarcane. So they brought in mungus. The problem is mungus are diurnal.

And the rats are nocturnal. So the mungus never saw the rats and the rats never saw the mungus. So the mungus started eating up all the ground nesting birds. And so the state bird of Hawaii got fucking decimated because a ground nesting bird. And so these fucking mungus who are like bad motherfuckers man.

They kill cobras. You know, they're just killing these birds. Like an office lady. Just like an office lady. I have a sighty at guys.

We gotta bring in the cats because then that'll get the rats. Someone else says, yeah, that's great.

And they just never consulting anybody who knows anything about these animals.

Oh, well, I think everything was done in decades pass when people were a lot more ignorant about the effect. And you know, Australia is a good example of that. Australia, they brought in cats. I forget what they were dealing with, but it didn't work. They didn't kill whatever they want.

Now they have a giant feral cat problem in Australia to the point where bow hunting magazines in Australia. They have fucking cats in them. Like a guy holding a house cat up that he shot with a bow and arrow. Like it's a trophy. Like my friend Adam.

My friend Adam, he lives in Australia. And I was over there visiting him and he gave me some bow hunting magazines. And I'm like, oh, I'll read these on the way home.

Not even thinking.

And I'm opening up this magazine.

“And there's a fucking guy holding a cat.”

And I was like, close it. Shut real quick. I'm like, is this allowed? What the fuck? They're melting.

It's hot. It's hot. Like if you saw a puppy with a fucking arrow through its chest, you'd be like, it's freak out. But that's how it is like over there.

They have so many feral cats that there's like a bounty on cats. Like people make like fur coats out of cats. It's fucking disgusting. I would expect that the country who lost a war to the e-mooce. They lost a war against their own e-moo population.

They have a giant problem with invasive species over there. There's so many of them. There's the water buffalo, the aziotic water buffalo, the northern territories. They have these enormous fucking buffaloes that are up there. And no natural predators.

And the guys just go up there to hunt them. That's the only way to thin a mouse. And you're still, you're not going to, you're not going to put them down. There's enough guys. It's too far.

My Australian buddy Jake. He has the drop bear joke. If he heard the drop bear joke. No. It's the funny.

If you get an Australian in a bar. All right.

Somebody always brings this up.

There's a lot of dangerous critters over there every time. And here we go. Oh, yeah, especially the drop bears. You know. What's the drop?

Oh, yeah. And he'll go into the whole story of the drop bear. And what the drop bear is is it's a bear that'll drop out of the pre on you. And then it's sexually assaults you. It's a real thing.

And every time someone will be like, "Really?" He's like, it's how Australians mess with the yanks, basically. The drop bears. They're hardy people.

They're used to crocodiles and fucking poisonous spiders and poisonous snakes. And especially those dudes that live out in the bush, as they say. Well, he says that the average animals. He tells me all the stories the average animals when they have their coming of age. They just buy warm beer.

And then they go out to the middle of the desert with warm beer.

And they'll just drink for weeks, months, warm beer.

“That's what they spend their government checks on.”

Because a lot of that stuff is considered occupied land. The Australian government makes deals with the app originals to have a lot of that land. So they give them a percentage, right? They give them monthly payments, kind of like what we do with the Native Americans here. And he's like, "Well, what they do is take their whole government,

cheese, check, fill an entire car with warm beer for their coming of age. Go out to the middle of the desert and just drink for months." I'm like, "Man, that's rough." Do they have a similar situation where Native Americans don't have genetically a history of alcohol use? And so alcohol impacted them different than it did the Europeans.

They didn't have the enzymes. That's just that they have another problem. Have you ever seen the petrol song? The petrol song? Oh, man.

What I'm about to show you is going to make you laugh to death. There's a song which was made by the Australian government for the Aboriginals about how you shouldn't drink or sniff petrol gasoline from a can. I'm not kidding.

You can pull it up right now. It's the gasoline song, right? It is the year you just be prepared. You're going to laugh yourself to death. Oh, my God.

Here we go. Don't be Rama Rama by Warburton. Is this it? Put the headphones on. Yeah.

No sniff. Don't sniff. Yeah. Oh, step on the bottle. Come on.

Come on. Come on. Come on. We put on the ears. Oh, man.

Yes. He don't sniff petrol. He don't have to throw. He put your petrol on the car and stays. It's messing with your brains.

Holy shit. Holy shit. Wow. Oh, my pretty good, though, God. Catchy song.

Yeah. Catchy song. Very catchy. Jesus Christ. So that's it.

“And you think you're going to fix that problem with a catchy song?”

No. No. And they have huge problems. He tells me stories about it all the time. He sent that over.

He said this song exists. No, it doesn't. No way.

Oh, my God. It does exist. It's this a real thing. It's such a problem for them. God, that's dark.

Yeah. It's brutal.

“And that's the sort of addiction problems that are going on there.”

It's not like people forget. It's not just the alcohol introduction of all things, which are addicting. That begin, if your culture has no defense against it, just sweeps right through. Right. Very similar to the crack epidemic.

Right. What was the effect? Well, it's also the accessibility, right? Crack was cheaper. Just like petrol.

Yeah. Woo. Oh, that whole thing of giving them their land and giving them money.

Boy, that always turns out horrible.

It's turned out horrible for us here. And then turned out of an alternative population. Except the ones that don't casinos. You know what's funny? You look into that, though, and you find out, guess what?

Yeah. They don't really get that much in the way of proceeds from those casinos. Exactly. Turns out that white eye comes in and still gets most of the proceeds from those casinos. Yep.

Somebody comes in and bank rolls it and sets it up. And they get a nice check. And they don't have to work again. But that guy gets fucking stink and rich. And then also you've created a gambling problem.

And then you have to have personal accountability. Like, I don't mind Las Vegas. I don't mind it.

“I think if you want to go into the casino.”

Like, my friend Dana White is a fucking degenerate gambler. Like, he plays blackjack for $100,000 a hand. It's nuts. I don't like it. I don't do it.

I don't get it. But I feel like you should be able to do it. If that's what you want to do. Sure. And then the argument is like people lose everything and like true.

Also people lose everything drinking. I don't know what you want to do about that. But I think you should have personal accountability. And you should, if you're an alcoholic definitely not drink. I don't know.

Like at what point in time do we say you can't because some people enjoy playing crabs. They go to, they look forward to going to Vegas and they want to play crabs. Like, what are we? Well, and overwhelmingly now people go, okay. I'm going to go to Vegas.

I'm going to go to Laughland. I'm going to go to a place like this. I'm bringing the exact amount of money that I can lose. And that's the exact rational. Yeah, just expect to lose.

There are degenerate gamblers. There's no doubt. Oh, okay. Interesting. There's, yeah, there's tons of degenerate gamblers.

That's true. My friend Dana is a weird one because he's a degenerate gambler. That's insanely wealthy. Yeah, he's worth fucking shit piles of money. And he's still gambling all the time.

Like, but, like, there's a thrill for me. Yeah.

Yeah, well, so, but when you set up one of those casinos in a place that's never had a casino.

At least Vegas is like established, right? But if you just, like, set up some new casino in a very poor area. Check out that's that. Oklahoma rose to 3.23 billion. Oh, native gaming revenues in Oklahoma rose to 3.23 billion in 2010,

representing 44% of all US casinos. Whoa. Oklahoma surpassed Connecticut as second in the United States for gaming revenue. According to Alan Meister and economist with Nathan Associates Inc. Oklahoma as 113 tribal casinos.

Whoa. More than any other state in the US. 2015 reporting US gaming says Oklahoma has the most gaming machines. Those machines, bro. Those, that's the saddest thing when you go to Vegas.

You see someone just sitting there like a drone. Yeah, I just press and buttons.

“Yeah, they ease with their, have you ever seen these green rubbers?”

They're, they're hilarious. They'll rub the screen for luck. Yeah. That's just wild. And they play the penny slots.

penny slots, 100 lines at a time, so it's a buck ahead. But it's a penny slot. Oh. It's a penny slot. Yeah, they're, they're making out like bandits, but it's usually not actually the native tribes that are making out it all.

Of course. Yeah, they get just enough to shut up. There you go. But it's just sad when you find out how much alcoholism and drug abuse exist on those in those places. And you think, like, if you look at it from a genetic perspective, like,

fire water, that was always the thing.

It was always the joke from the Western movies that the natives couldn't hand their handle their fire water. So they didn't have a history of alcohol use. And also, and you've introduced something that allows them to just get pissed drunk. Yeah, fall asleep and they don't have cultural traditions on how to manage it correctly. And for addiction at all.

And there's also the genetics. Yeah. Some people have a genetic propensity for alcoholism. And also, some people are better at processing alcohol. They have a genetic propensity for prop.

It's like the whole thing is it's dark. You were telling me just before we came in here that you had seen Rachel debate that guy. Yes. Yes. And you had watched the thrashing, which I was telling you was in the front row when that happened.

Yeah. And he was that guy was just beyond upset.

What did you think after you had watched that? Did you feel bad for that guy? No. No.

I never feel bad for someone that is--

“I don't feel bad for guys when they fight and they kick in the head.”

I signed up for it. I don't like that people get injured in a fight. But you're trying to do that. He did it to you. What it is.

It is what it is. You know? And it's just the weirdness is like, tell her to make him a sandwich. Like, what are we doing here? Yeah.

Are you a misog just now? Like, you think a woman's-- What are you saying? They don't think at all about-- It's like the checkers thing. Like, we're talking about the ID for the grocery store.

It's terrible. It's like, what are you doing? It's also wanting to be right and to win versus having a really well thought out perspective that you want to argue. You know, like, or debate, or just communicate.

It's always this ego thing or people are trying to win.

And in doing so, they fall into these, like, really obvious traps. Easy ones, too. That's one of the things that when we first talked about doing another podcast, is how I want to talk to you about. Because, you know, you're very logical in your approach to these things.

And so many people are so bad. They're being logical. Yeah. Well, you know, I did a debate, pretty famous debate with Dave Smith. And I know you know Dave.

And Dave's a friend of mine. And we became friends. I love Dave. Yeah, we became very good friend of mine. What happened in the debate?

Well, you got crushed badly. What was the debate over? The debate was, well, it veered into his libertarian philosophy. I could hear him right now going, "Fuck it, I did not fucking get crushed." He won't-- He won't actually on this one.

He's very, very, publicly acknowledged that this happened to him. But it was good. So it was about libertarianism. There was libertarians versus Christian ethics and how the intersection actually happens with authority. And he ended up having to agree with most of my positions.

I'm a little bit more of a status than he is. He's a libertarian. And so we had it this-- and it was a good back and forth. It was a brutal debate, but it was a good back and forth.

“But when it was done, I think what he expected was that”

I was going to do the dunk on Dave tour. I was going to go around. The opposite. In fact, a DM dim and said, "Look, I think that I can help shore your world view up."

So your libertarian-- and here's some points that you missed. And I think I can help shore those up and he said really. So I walked him through a bunch of those points. And he still uses them to this day. That's cool.

But the whole idea there is like, I do want my world view to win, ultimately, that's true. And one of the reasons I do so many debates is because I do think I'm speaking to the audience from my world view, why I think it's perhaps superior to this guy's or

the things I'm advocating for better or worse. With Dave, he's doing the same thing. He's advocating his world view. I think the difference there, the distinction was that he was surprised and he kind of asked me about it.

They're good to better, and you've gotten better as time has gone on. And if you're going to represent your view, I want you to be the best at representing that view,

“because that's how you determine which world view people”

end up going with. Mm-hmm. This is why so many people have moved towards Christianity and Christian ethics, seeing the religious debates has a lot to do with that with the various ideas in world view,

being expanded, and then the kind of the graciousness even after the debate of trying to help the other person with their view. That's very cool, and that would be nice if most people use that framework to have discussions.

They don't. No, they don't. It's just, and again, it's like it's a part of what we're talking about that there's this whole commodity of attention. And there's a lot of attention on dunking on people,

and shitting on people and being mean, and people love that stuff for whatever reason.

That's true. Now, I'm not always that charitable.

When it comes to progressives or leftists, the people who I consider responsible for many of the most horrific things in society, socially that we deal with, I'm not nearly as charitable to them.

But this is because in my humble experience, they have not been very charitable to anybody. No, anybody's views. It's a very hyper-aggressive position, and very prone to insults.

And it's normalized. Like attacking people's normalized. The celebration of Charlie Kirk is a great example of the cruelty that's normalized, right? And when you get down to the core pillar of their ideology,

a lot of them think, not only is this justified, I mean, example, there's a guy who is inside the twitch sphere, who says, "Well, wouldn't you kill Hitler if you could before he became Hitler?"

And so, you see many progressives who have this kind of justification, and that leads to a huge amount of political violence, which becomes normalized, because they justify it through the lens of "I'm stopping a monster."

Well, I've never thought these people see me as a human being.

I don't think that they do. I think that they see me, most of them, at least the ones I debate with, as an actual monster, who's trying to take or destroy them or hurt them in some way. And so, from my view,

“that's what it always seems like coming this direction,”

is that they don't even see me as a person. They see me as an idea or an ideology, which is there to hurt them. Right? They have to attack and beat and win. And then, of course, they're in the echo chamber

of the people that also support that ideology, and they're all agreeing that this is okay, and that this is acceptable, and this violence is acceptable, and all these different things. Yeah, it's really, it's kind of daunting,

because you just like, when does this dust settle? When do people just relax

and start having actual conversations on both sides?

Like, when do people just do what you and Dave did? And just find out why a person thinks what they think, and what the actual facts of what they're saying are, and whether or not your worldview is distorted or compatible. Or compatible?

Yeah, like Christian ethics, living inside of the libertarianism, from my view is way better than trying to make Christian ethics accountable with progressive ideology. And so, if I have to pick between a guy governing like Mumbani, or a guy who holds the ideology like Dave Smith,

I'm picking Dave Smith's ideology.

“And those are the choices, that's how I view it.”

I view it as choices between ideology. Somebody's going to be in charge, somebody's going to be in charge of the state. No matter what, I'm going to try to pick the ideology that's closest to my own. If you're going to be in charge of the state,

definitely want you to at least be representing the values that I have while you're in charge of it. And the values of being legitimately charitable and a pathway to redemption, which doesn't exist. It does progressive, which is really a problem

because they keep pushing the goal post and eating their own. They keep going further and further left, attacking people for not being left enough, and like you get cast out of the community. You get excommunicated for,

I mean, how many people were excommunicated during COVID for just not going along with the government's narrative on pharmaceutical drugs being injected in your body in absence of your consent. Many of them wanted COVID passports.

Remember that? They wanted to inject the jabby stabby into YouTube even censored opposition to it for a long time.

“I think there's a real problem with people”

that don't have an ethical framework or a moral framework that's just arbitrary, and they don't have a religious foundation.

That's where I always describe it as,

whether you believe in Christ or not. It's an awesome framework, like a scaffolding for being a good person. You can follow that guy's teachings. There's no flaws in it.

Especially Jesus. This is not one thing the point to, you know, there's a few guys in religion that you could point to and go, "Yeah, well, he married a nine-year-old."

Like, "Hey, that seems a little fucked." Hey, he said he could kill the infidels. That seems a little fucked. With Jesus, there's none of that. None of that.

Not only that. It's interesting that you bring that up, the kind of foundational principles. For Christians, the emulation of Christ, we accept that we're flawed.

We accept that we sin. And we accept that the only pathway for us through redemption is to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, through Christian ethics, right? That's how we perceive things.

So baked into that is not only redemption. It's not only the idea of salvation, but it gives you a value to move towards. And what's missing often from the progressive ideology from the secular ideology or the atheist ideology?

How do you give a person a moral ought? If you are the ultimate arbiter of all that is moral because it just comes to your down to your preference? Right. How do we determine who the ultimate arbiter now is?

Right. Well, it usually just comes down to you and whatever your preferences are. And so, what are we moving towards exactly? How do we make it a determination that you're an error?

You're not moving towards this greater value? What you do is you're establishing a new, non-defined religion that could be moved and changed based on the wins. Yeah.

At any given time, and depending on who's the most radical and the most charismatic that's in charge of whatever that movement is at the time, eat the rich, whatever it is, whatever it is, whatever it is, whatever it is, whatever it is,

whatever it is, it's a moral micro cult. Right. Like the Shekai, have you seen the secular humanist?

Micro cult. Same thing there. Like the member atheism plus? Yeah, right. Yeah.

The atheism plus.

“Secondary humanism is really interesting”

because, and I've debated the most prominent secular humanist in the world. Who's that? Well, I did Matt Delohonti. I've done several secular humanist debates. Matt Delohonti was a funniest thing in the world.

He rage quit in the first few minutes of the debate

in my opening statement. Because I brought up this glaring contradiction in his world view. He said, "Why, why?" So he was dating a trend. He's dating a trans person. He says, "I'm not gay."

I'm not gay, but I'm dating a trans person. So I brought this up. And I said, "The way that we can assess truth claims." I can just point an easy one out of how we can assess that. Maybe this isn't a good way to evaluate truth claims.

Right. Because he says he's in a non-homosexual relationship with a trans woman and reconciles that by saying, "No, that's a real woman." And I'm like, "If we can't even distinguish what's real and what's true, how could he even have this quit off that?"

Oh, he was so angry. He called me a bunch of names. God up and rage quit for me pointing out this glaring contradiction in his ideology. And it basically ruined his career.

But he did it to himself because he should just stay and done the debate. And here's why I think this. And but instead, he just lost it. He lost it.

God up undignified through the mic. Called me a bunch of names. Walked out. And anyway, I said, "You and your husband have a wonderful evening." And he just, that was it for him.

On his way out. But the problem with this ideology is it's changed. So he was reading from the secular human manifesto three. So it's already had, you know, it's on its third revision now. And it started initially as kind of more religious dogma.

And then it took on a non-religious dogma. They called it secularism. Who is creating the canon of wealth? There was a big meeting in Amsterdam, not kidding. I'm not kidding.

It's the Amsterdam secular humanist manifesto. And essentially it just comes down to these arbitrary preferences around. We're just kind of four things that make you feel good and kind of against things that it make us not feel so good. Now, that's the biggest oversimplification in the world.

But it really does just kind of reduce to that.

And so one of the ways that you can always kind of endlessly beat these guys about

the head and shoulders with their own ideology is just point this out. Who's in charge of this anyway?

“Like, which one of you gets to make this determination?”

That this is the ought that I should follow. Based on anything other than your preferences and the idea always is, well, it wouldn't just be my preference. It'd be the preference of many people, but don't those change? Well, yeah. Well, then what you're saying is that what you consider moral today,

you're not going to consider moral tomorrow. That tells me that you're saying to me, you don't know what is moral and what is not. The Christian has the opposite approach. They're saying what was moral yesterday is still moral today. And what's still moral today is still what's going to be moral 1,000 years from now.

2,000 years from now, because that's the teaching they're basing it on. Yeah, it's really odd if anybody, it's like Wikipedia, like anybody can contribute. Yeah, or edit. You can just edit it whenever you want to. Thank you, bad. It's way worse than Wikipedia, because it's not even edited.

You could actually add to the canon. You could write your own book of Eugene. Yeah, book of Eugene, and this is Eugene's new prophetic way forward. That is 100% true, and there are actual fail saves in the Bible that prevent people from writing new bibles. The entirety of the message of Christ in and of itself.

This is what Christian ethics is based on, the teachings of Jesus Christ, the teachings of the Scriptures. But it always gives us a thing to move towards. And that is why it creates, I think, better societies in general, better societies overall,

because people always go, wait a second, I'm supposed to be moving towards this idea.

If you really do follow it, it makes nice people. Like the people that I know that are like genuine real Christians are some of the nicest people I know, of course. They're so kind, almost as nice as the Mormons. There's the nicest. The more, well, the more important things.

They're the nicest.

“Because if you have to be in a cult, like you said, boy, that's got to be the one.”

It's a great one to get a bunch of wives, everyone's cool. And do you know that they're the richest, they're richer than the Catholic Church? Father, really? Much richer. Wow, much rich.

I would have never guessed that. I didn't either until I, somebody told me that. That says no way. Yes, there is. There's so many Catholics.

Are there way more Catholics? Way more. But it's the tithing. So Mormons are really, they practice nepotism, like no other. I mean, and, I mean, they just overwhelmingly practices in their communities.

60, 70 percent. And then they get awarded various contracts from their friends and things like this. Wow. And the church has boo-coo dollars. Damn, what a nice, nice set up.

Yeah, it's a nice set up. It's a pretty nice set up for them. And then they run their own politicians inside their own states. Of course. Which then enforces their lots, like they kind of figured a lot of this out.

Those are nice.

“If they could push that niceness out to everybody else, like, you know, what?”

Why? What do you got here, Jamie? It does. It's official Mormonism is the richest religion of the world. But Catholicism has a whole somewhere in the 2.3 trillion dollar.

Oh, because there's a bunch of different Catholic churches. Yeah. But the single richest church is, yeah, the church of Jesus Christ of the United States of Mormons. Wow. They have a hundred billion dollars.

Yeah. There's a way above everybody else. Yeah, it's not even Catholic. It's only 30 billion dollars.

I would have never guessed.

They were that much richer than the Vatican. That's not correct. That's not correct. That's not correct. What do you mean?

I'm just saying it's not correct. How so? I'm also, it's a Wikipedia post on Reddit. That's not the best word. Oh, you just think this is just not accurate in general?

Yeah, whatever holy sea is. That's the Vatican. Yeah, that'll be good. I mean, it's got way more than 30 billion dollars. And just, that's a lot of money, dude.

And it's just art. A wonder, right? That's a good point. As I said, I just looked it up. It's worth three trillion dollars.

It says on this other post. Oh, interesting. Yeah. So just the art? I'm just at, or the buildings and the Vatican itself.

With getting into the weeds of it. Yeah. As a one-hole church, and Utah, yes, compared to the lead to the one church in Texas. So are they just basing it on their assets? Is that what it is?

Also, it's a, it was comparing it to like per person. Like per, per, per, per.

Look, one average Catholic is worth $67,000 versus $1.7 million.

For a million? Yeah. The average Mormon is worth $1.7 million. Nepotism. Yeah.

“There's way more Catholics like in Africa that, you know, aren't we?”

Right. And South America, especially. Right. But that is crazy. The average Mormon's worth $1.7 million?

That's also, they're probably there's that. Yeah. Right. That's probably right. Right.

That's what Scientology does, right? Oh, that was a big thing with Scientology and Hollywood. In Hollywood, when I first moved there in 1994, there was a bunch of people that were doing really well, who were Scientologists.

And there was this, this sort of push that, if you join Scientology, they take care of you and you get hooked up. That is really a wide berth. It's between 300 billion and 2.5 trillion. That's a really wide.

It's almost like Ilhan Omar's accountant. He's hiding something here. There's someone just said like, "Romden, go away. It just became the Catholic Church." That's why, you know.

Right. Right. Have you been to the Vatican? Oh, my God. The art isn't sane.

I went on a tour with this guy who is a professor from France. It was really cool. It was really smart. It was a very interesting tour. You can hire a guy.

And this guy was a professor and in the summer. He would, you know, give these tours. And if you were enthusiastic about it, he was awesome. And I was like, really, really into it.

So they ask him all these questions. And he kept explaining in depth to me.

And like, you just never run out of art.

You just look at so much shit. Like, this is crazy. You keep going into new rooms and new fucking new auditoriums. And then you're in, like, St. Peter's Basilica. Just that alone.

You're like, "What? What if this is crazy?" And it's all worth a fortune. It's so big and so majestic that if you didn't believe in God, and you went there, you'd be like, "Okay, maybe." They might know something.

Like, how the fuck did you do this? Like, it's so majestic that it almost changes your perception of what's possible. You think they got the chrono visor in there? The what?

The chrono visor, the Vatican chrono visor? What is that?

“That's supposedly, this is the conspiracy stuff, right?”

Getting into the conspiracy stuff. Supposedly, the Vatican is sitting on something called the chrono visor, which tells them the future. Then it was invented. I don't know.

How many hundreds of years ago, would you put on the chrono visor? And it shows you the future. Yes. No.

Yes. Oh, my God. Where is the arrow? It's pointing to like, It's going to be like Jesus or something.

I don't understand. Yeah. And so, yeah, you put it on. You put it on. And it'll show you, it can show you different spots in time

or something like this. Called the chrono. Oh, oh. Well, you know, I'm really interested in the Ark of the Covenant that supposedly in Ethiopia.

You know, if you ever heard Graham Hancock talked about that?

It's really interesting.

“So the Ethiopian Bible has a lot of like the book of Enoch and Ed.”

And it's a really old version.

They don't consider it due to Rochanon. They consider it canon. Yeah. So the Ethiopian Church is not actually-- I don't believe it's actually in communion with the Orthodox Church

and you write it. It's on its own along with a couple others. But they do have more books in their Bible than the Orthodox Church does in the Catholic Church. Right.

And supposedly they're guarding the Ark of the Covenant. And these people that are assigned to be a guardian of this thing. They can only do it for a couple of years. And they develop cataracts. And he spoke to these people from the blinding light.

From whatever the fuck it is. Like whatever it is. It might be radiation. I mean, who knows what it is. But apparently, the lure is that it's this one particular church.

It's very old church in Ethiopia. And there is an area where they are guarding the Ark of the Covenant.

And the people that are supposed to be in the room with it.

They all can only do it for a couple of years. And then they get horribly sick. And then they have to switch them out. And they get cataracts. Like this documented cataracts from all these guys who go to--

I mean, maybe it's the placebo effect. They think they're going to-- I don't know. But I highly doubt it. Yeah. It sounds more likely.

You've got some sort of a crazy artifact that might be ancient technology. You have the same thing in Israel. Over Jesus is too. So mostly. It's a photovisor.

I just read in the article. This is like it says a purported photo. Oh, it's crystal clear. That's clear. Then whatever's name is Tyler Robinson.

Right? Right. And that's in 4K. It's kind of scary. He had the ability to go witness these events.

He witnessed tons of stuff. And then when he died, it says that the Pope had it. So nobody could ever-- Nobody could ever do that. How convenient.

Very convenient. How convenient. But yeah. Another big miracle that's like that is over the tomb of Jesus Christ. Sits the Orthodox Church in Israel.

Now that's true. Right? That is, in fact, the case that there is an Orthodox Church. Christian Church is above the tomb. Wow.

“And every year, I think it's every year.”

They have the miracle of the Holy Sepulchur. I think I'm pronouncing that right, Sepulchur. And what they do is they use flame and emulate themselves in this holy flame, and they're burning. They're on fire.

And none of them burn. What? Yeah. How do they do that? Nobody knows.

But there's just one small sect of Christianity. No, this is the Orthodox Church. People come from miles around. But the people that light themselves on fire. They are these are people who are in the church,

who are specially selected to, basically emulate them. You know, they set themselves on fire with the holy flame from torches. And apparently, this is what I'm told.

They've had people go and investigate. And they can't figure out how exactly this is being done. But they're completely on fire, and they don't get hurt at all. Jamie, pull that up. I have a...

Is there video of them? There is video. There is video. Really? Yeah.

Greek television. Like five candles in white phosphorus, the candles spontaneously ignited for approximately 10 minutes. Due to the self-ignition properties of white phosphorus when in contact with the air. According to the website, it says that phosphorus is dissolved in an appropriate organic solvent. Self-ignition is delayed until the solvent is completely evaporated.

Pete experienced the ignition can be delayed for half an hour or more, depending on the density of the solution. How does this stop them from catching fire though, and dying? The same way that's probably like the... You know, the people put on to make movies?

You know, he's a skeptic.

This motherfucker, he's always ruining everything.

But I think logic. I think the skepticism is great. If people actually practice the real philosophical tradition of skepticism, which is you're supposed to also be skeptical of your view. Right.

“So the real skeptics, I'll never forget this debate that I listened to,”

that it always stuck with me for years. It's with a guy named Jay Dyer and that same guy Matt Dillahonti. And they were debating. Oh, here it is. Sorry.

I got thought of it. Okay, they were debating. Yeah, they were debating. And he said, the guy Dillahonti said, "Well, I'm a skeptic." And Jay said, "No, you're not."

Here's the actual philosophy of skepticism. And it always starts with you. Your view is what you apply skepticism to. First, long before you ever apply it to any other. And the problem with people who describe themselves now is skeptics.

I'm a skeptic. They actually aren't really following skepticism. They're skeptical of your view. That doesn't mean that they're skeptical of their own. And it's supposed to start internally.

That's what made skepticism kind of something that spread widely. It was a way for people to reject parts of their own worldview. They didn't fit. They didn't match. They weren't coherent.

And so, most of the time I hear skepticism, the person's not actually following the philosophy of skepticism,

“they're not applying it to their view first.”

Yeah, there's a lot of lazy skepticism, too, where they didn't outright deny the existence of conspiracies, like which is just fucking ludicrous. And it's like, you're playing a very rigid corridor of ideas. You're only allowed to opt ridiculous. Not only that, the US government has thousands of laws on the books about conspiracy.

So it's like our government seems to believe in them because there's conspiracy to commit racketeering, conspiracy to murder, conspiracy to commit theft, conspiracy to commit wire fraud. Yeah.

Like, they clearly believe that there's a lot of conspiracies going on,

and definitely prosecute people for conspiracies all the time.

“But somehow, when it comes to the skeptic mindset of conspiracy,”

nope, that's all tin foil. It's a lazy perspective, and it's also a perspective that falls in line with what we're talking about before, where you take a lot of legitimate conspiracies, and you add a bunch of bullshit to it to make it seem completely ludicrous, and then the whole thing can be thrown out of this system. It's like, it's so obvious that that's a, that's a ploy.

Did you find anybody catching fire?

Yeah, I was getting into, I was like, well, they're not really, they're like just dancing their hands over the fire.

Like, it wouldn't catch anybody on fire technically, because you're not lighting. Well, these guys are fire. These guys don't look like priests. They're putting their hands through it. Oh, so they're faking it.

So the few people are faking it. Oh, these guys. Lightness beard on fire.

“So there was a lady at the end of one of these videos.”

She held a piece of paper over it, and it wasn't, I mean, Well, this stuff like, like, they're fire. But that's where I was, yeah, we at the white phosphorus thing. They said after 30 minutes, it will start acting as you expect it to. Look at all, it seems like everybody should be on fire.

How odd. But yeah, it's a, it's a long standing tradition. Like she's wiping it on her forehead or something. You, yeah. Huge tradition there. They call it the miracle.

Is another traditional miracle called, I got to take a peek. So let's wrap this up. No, it's really fun, man. Thank you very much. Always appreciate you.

Cool hanging out with you. Yeah. I enjoy. We went over a lot today. A lot, shit.

Yeah. A lot. And I enjoyed it very much. Thank you. My pleasure.

Thanks for watching. Thanks for watching.