700: Keith Hawk & AJ Hawk - Conscious Competence, Delusional Confidence, Stacking Days, After-Action Reviews, Taking Big Risks, The Power of Compounding, and Modeling High-Standards

It's called the arena.

“Great coaches want to surround themselves with other high achievers.”

Great coaches want to be in a group where high standards are the norm. That's exactly what the arena is, a private community of hungry driven, growth-focused coaches led by the Hall of Fame or Sherry Cole, Brook Cups, Garen Stokes, and Eli Liker. These are the people I personally go to to become a better leader.

Here's what's different this year.

We just finished our first full year. It was awesome. Lots of coaches from all over the country at every level, from high school to college to the pros across more than a dozen sports. Mike Powell with the Arizona Diamondback said, if you are looking for a group to push you out of

your comfort zone, give you the tools to become a better human coach and leader. This is the space. It's not comfortable, but you're going to grow and connect applications for the next cohort are open now. The arena might be for you if you are a high caliber, high character coach who is not

“afraid to be pushed and challenged and work on yourself to be better for the people you”

are leading. If that's you, go to learningleiter.com/arina to apply. That's learningleiter.com/arina. Welcome to the learningleiter show presented by Insight Global, I am your host Ryan Hawk. Thank you so much for being here. Go to learningleiter.com, for show notes of this and all podcasts episodes.

Go to learningleiter.com. Now on to the nice special episode, every 100th episode I record with my dad and my brother today.

We are celebrating episode number seven hundred incredible.

My dad, Keith Falk, also known as Pistol, spent decades leading sales teams at Lexus Nexus. It has taught leadership and public speaking to audiences all over the world. He's also a best-selling author of multiple books including Get Real Selling. Pistol has that rare ability to be both universally liked by all and 100% respected.

It's really cool.

“My brother, AJ Hawk, was an all-American line-backer at Ohio State where he won a national”

championship. He was drafted fifth overall by the Green Bay Packers. He played 11 years in the NFL, one of Super Bowl and was voted captain with the Green Bay Packers and retired as the franchise's all-time leading tackle. Now you see him every weekday on ESPN as a co-host of the Pat McAfee show.

During this special celebration of 700 episodes we discussed, the power of delusional confidence and why this is one of AJ's best attributes, then my dad's framework for being a consciously competent leader and why vivid clarity is vital. We also each share the biggest risk we ever took.

We talk about big inflection point moments in our lives and we end it as we always do with

a draft. This one got a little weird. Ladies and gentlemen, please enjoy as we celebrate episode number 700, it's my dad. We talk in my brother AJ Hawke. pistol age.

It's number 700. Thank you for being here. Give me an update. It's been two years, September 15th, 20, 24 since the last time we recorded pistol. I'll start with you because I know age said that you already scripted this entire thing out.

What have you been up to for the past two years? Give us an update. You guys should know about now. I don't go my script. I have a set list.

Okay. What's on the set list then? Last two years, I've been spending about five months a year in Florida. That's actually a little longer than the last two years. My days, these days, all right, I will talk to a couple of old lexas next to people probably

through the course of the day. For one reason or another, I'll go to my spin class and get my cardio out of the way early. Then I'll go to the golf course and play 18 holes and I walk and then I and time left over to do any other errands, duties I have and occasionally help people and stuff that are doing in their work.

Whoever that might be. All right. Hey, how about you? A lot of the, you know, business as usual or kind of what I was doing two years ago, I guess I've been joining the Pat McVee show every day, five days a week and then now we travel

a decent amount. Especially during the football season, we get to go do like sideline pasts, different things. We're watching a lot of the college football playoff games. That's been awesome going on site, doing shows, different things like that and then as far as that home, just raising the four kids and helping coach three different football teams

But it's been fun. It's been awesome. I want to continue to keep doing what I'm doing. Absolutely. What were you thinking in that moment?

We're on.

“I think I don't remember which T-box, maybe number five and we're with Coach Sala, who's the head”

coach of the Titans and Coach McDonald, who's the defending Super Bowl champion coach of the C-Hawks and you guys were talking about how to tackle somebody.

I thought that was one of the coolest 90 second to three minute talks I had heard in a long

time. I mean, I'm genuinely curious. We had Matt Patricia, the defensive coordinator for Ohio State, at the combine, we were there doing a show and I, after the show, I was like, okay, I got to ask you. How are you teaching?

Tackling. Because Tackling is a big, like, to think now and how they teach it, and the coach, young kids, you got to watch all these certification videos, you know, hey, here's how you use, you know, this is CPR, all of that also, they want to teach you how to block and tackle on this.

And I just don't fully understand the different ways that they're teaching Tackling. If I ever see a coach, I got to ask them so Sala and Coach McDonald, obviously both defensive guys I have to. I just can't not ask these guys. I love what they were about and what they're, how they teach it and just gives me clarity

and kind of reinforces my beliefs and what I'm doing and how I'm trying to teach young kids Tackle. I was, because they're head coaches now, so you think, well, you know, they're away from the position coach teaching for years and yet the detail. Because I feel like where you ever coach to that level of detail of how to pursue and

where to go and there's all different ways based upon what's happening on the play. I feel like it's more, where's the ball? I'm going to go get it, style versus, I don't even know how they think of all of that style. They do, and they have like terminology, they break it down in ways like I even told my,

I'm going to steal that.

“I think Sala said, like he called it like a swoop when you come in, we used to call it,”

like, come to balance all different kinds of things. They all have their different terminology on how they use it, but they're all kind of coaching similar things, but the level of detail you're right, they're saying like, it used to be, hey, take a good angle, use your help if I got somebody outside and I'm running inside out.

I'm going to force him to my help, but I'm not going to want him to cut back across my face all that. They have that times a thousand to where it was. Hey, if you are a trail position, if you are a little bit ahead and they have terminology for all that and what kind of tackle it turns into, again, players know exactly what they're

doing. So it's fun to talk to those guys. I mean, when I started asking those guys about tackle it, all of a sudden, you know, two holes laterally, but well, you know, but if it's this situation, you know, and you're

just coming up and you're behind the ball here and you know, you know, it's a third and

short, you know, this is a different kind of thing. And so they all, they love it. You could tell they love football. Those guys were amazing. The coach kind of does, but when you hear how detailed they are and how passionate they

are, like it makes me excited, like I love it. Because I, I'm kind of like a football nerd when it comes to all that stuff about hand placement, how to use your hands to get off blocks and block destruction they call it. All that stuff is as I get older, it's actually become cooler to me because I realize how important it is.

And guys, like Luke Fickle, my vinebacker coach at Ohio State taught me a lot of how to use my hands, leverage and all that, so I'm just trying to try to explain to kids that kind of give them a chance. Okay, man. The tough game, these guys are big, fast, strong dudes trying to block you and the guys

you're trying to tackle. I'm trying to give you a little bit of an edge here. If it's possible. Oh, of it. It was not a surprise after that day, especially seeing the sea hawks, they're having

one to Super Bowl based upon the level of detail that they're coach. And I think they're on hard knocks too, so I'm pumped to watch that. But I think you were with me and I asked him about putting and other things and he said, "You do not want to be inside my head, I'm a psycho about that stuff." In the best possible way, I felt that pistol would have reminded me of stuff that you taught

“and still teach with those guys and did not plan for this go this way, but that's how this”

works. Anyway, it was vivid clarity. You say that all the time. I remember it. I say it all the time now because you've said it all the time that these great leaders

are great because they're giving vivid clarity to the people that they're leading of how to do fill in the blank, whatever the thing is that they're doing. Walk me through your riff on this importance of being vividly clear as a leader with your messaging of what we're doing, how to do it, why we're doing it, all of that stuff. Well, part of it is that the core concept is you want to be a consciously competent leader.

And by that it means you understand the processes of the work you're asking people to do, not just the end result, I'll just give you a tiny example.

When I would sit down with a new branch manager, I would say one of the first things I want

you to do with every one of your employees is sit down with them individually and describe in my suit and vivid clarity detail how these people get paid. Because they're paid on a variable basis, make sure they understand their actions correlate directly with their income. That's just one example, but extended to anything that you're asking somebody to do, don't

Here's precise. How I want you to handle it, based on different situations as they come up.

So part of being a good leader, especially like a first line leader of people that are

doers in the work, you've got to have the ability to know their work somehow at a great level of detail. I'm leaving. Yeah. So the way this is going to go is I've written down some notes.

I sent them to you as well as then I just asked people who listen to the show, some things that they were curious about since people know that we do this. They ask about the hundredth episode. This is like a thing which is great. I love the tradition of it.

So I'll go that way and then we'll end with the draft. One of the things I thought about and I was having a conversation with a friend about age and maybe pistol, you could have something about this too is they ask me about inflection moments or specific times or a specific time when I felt like, hey, I can do this because hearing stories of other people say like, hey, I can do this could be inspiring for them

with whatever the tough thing that they're trying to do. And so for us, I thought, well, why don't we pick a time in college because high schools, you know, there's those moments too, but it's like whatever high school, high school.

Do you want me to go first?

Do you want to go first age where you have like a moment or a time where you go, I can do this. So I'm going to thrive here.

“Like, I think I can really do this thing.”

I can go first. I guess I don't know if there's like complete clear to go. I can do this. I want to play my freshman year in camp when I went to high state, there was the last year they did freshman camp.

So all of our freshman class came in, there's like 25 hours and we did like four days in pads, practice against each other and then all the rest of the team came and I think a couple of weeks in the camp. Maybe a week or two in, I was playing defense, I don't know, probably with the twos, I think.

And we were doing 11 or 11 like drills and they were doing a team period. And they ran like this, I call like a tear screen outside receiver takes the he catches the ball and tries to run down through the shoot like a tunnel screen almost, like a lot of people call it. And he was trying to run and I, whatever reason, I didn't know, I didn't blame it.

Why was, when you're young, you don't really know what you're doing. It just reacted and instinct, so whatever. And they ran this tunnel screen and I somehow read it perfectly, I don't recall exactly who caught the ball and man, I had just a like a textbook perfect hit on the, it was awesome. Like I found it took off, I realized what the play was coming.

He caught it and smoked him in practice. It was great. Everyone kind of like went crazy.

“I was a young guy, but I remember that moment, like, okay, cool, like this is the”

pulse football. And from that moment, it wasn't like, oh, here I've arrived or anything like that. But I remember that given me like confidence and feeling like, okay, this is still football. These guys are all monsters, they're all big, strong and fast, but I think I can find a way to make some plays.

That's so cool. I love it. I've not heard that story.

I remember when I transferred to OU, I had a really good spring that first because I played

as loose as I've ever played football before because I was ineligible to play in the fall. So a spring ball, you're like, I'm just going to make shots. You know, I'm just going to be slinging it. And that's kind of when you play your best, you know, especially as a quarterback, just let it go.

I look at the schedule going to the season knowing I'm going to be the scout team quarterback. Right. And I've already played two seasons of college football at Miami, you know, get beat out for the job, whatever. So I look at the schedule notice that we're playing University of Florida and Rex Grossman

is the quarterback.

“And I think it was a second or third week of the season, but I was, I had circled that one”

and got with our equipment manager before the season. This is like during camp. And I said, hey, this is going to be our scout team Super Bowl. It's going to be me and a bunch of like walk-ons and freshmen and all that stuff. So I need to get the blue jersey.

I need to be number eight. I need to get the thicker wristband, so I can wear it on my elbow and we're spat in the cleats that week. And I want to study Steve Spirier slash Ron Zook's offense for Rex Grossman, old school football fans remember like Rex Grossman was awesome in college and even like went to a Super Bowl with the bears.

But anyway, I got with my scout team leading up to that week and I was like, we're going to torch our guys. Like it was Tim Deruter was a defensive coordinator who would later go on to be a head coach. And Deruter was really big on building, I don't know how this was for you. As I'll be curious to hear you say, he was really big on you got to run the cards exactly

how they're drawn because they draw up their defense to then crush the cards, which I think is stupid because you want to prepare your players to be ready. And I know they need confidence, but that's not how football works, right? You don't just have the perfect defense called for every play. But anyway, so I got the cards.

I rewrote the cards based on real plays that Florida ran, not the exact ones at the reader and his GAs had drawn up and I brought my guys in, we watched film, we practiced outside of practice, the Florida offense, like some of my receivers during that week of that game. It's really only Tuesday and Wednesday right, like those are the Super Bowl days, full

pads, all that stuff, that Tuesday and Wednesday, we just carved our defense up. I mean, we just killed them, touchdowns, touchdown touchdown to Deruter was so

He was mad at our offense.

“We tore our guys up, but what happened was the defense, I think it has earned a lot”

of respect from all those guys. And remember like our Dennis Chukwamek, our middle linebacker, Rob Stover, our free safety, who would play outside linebacker some, they said, we're going to be really good next year because we got a guy. And so like that was a moment where I thought, like, let's go where you prep, you do everything

you can, I looked like him, I wore the jersey, I wore the wristband, I spattered the shoes, I tried to like throw like him and after the game, so we go down, they got on the floor to play the game. It rained a little bit, it was messy, I don't think gross and played that great. And we almost pull off this giant upset when they were a big time ranked team and we were

whatever, middle American conference, middle of the packed team. We lost the game, but had a shot in the fourth quarter to actually win it.

And my guys came back after the game and said it was way harder in practice than it

wasn't the game. And so to me that was like, let's go like we got it now, did the rest of the career go like that? Of course not, it's not how it works.

“But to me, I'll never forget that week of like, this is what happens if you prepare for”

the moment, you get your guys kind of rallied around this thing. Then of us, we're going to play in the game, is all bunch of walk-ons and freshmen, but you could do something really fun together to try to help your team get ready. And I think we did, I think we helped and get ready and almost pulled off a crazy upset. So that was a fun one for me, Pistom Curious, because there was a listener question.

So maybe I'll just jump to that now of somebody asked like, hey, Pistom wanted to do no. By the way, I feel like I should do this now, Pistom's nickname is Pistom because when we were younger, he showed me an age, videos of Pistom Pete Maravich. We watched him.

We would go on the driveway and practice doing the crazy dribbling and passing and shooting and all the stuff Pistom Pete does. And then Pistom would go out and do all the stuff and he would look not nearly as athletic as me in age and we said, what are you trying to do? Be Pistom Pete or Pistom Keith and Pistom stock.

So that covers that. So anyway, Pistom, what did you think there was a, hey, these guys are good or this could be like a thing for us when it comes to sports? If I can give two examples, quickly on both of you. So basketball, I think we all know is a sport that really shows athleticism as much as

any run suit jump, all that. And when you guys were like four and six playing in the Breckling, it's all you had available to you at that time, they had a rule that you couldn't play defense past the mid court line. You couldn't go for a court, you couldn't play defense, fast mid court line and you guys were incredibly aggressive by comparison to the other four and six year olds you were

playing against. And I noticed early on, you figured it out, you would put your toes on the mid court line and as soon as the other guys got to that line, you'd steal the ball for them and go make a layup. To the point where, at least the time, I was coaching you guys, I would say, once you make

a shot or two, you got to make sure all your teammates have a chance to get a shot. And so you'd keep stealing the ball and passing it to a teammate then so they'd get a shot and then you'd get to rebound and make it.

“So basketball showed early for both of you and I bet you guys remember that.”

But then I'll give you one individually for each.

Brian, when you were playing your first tackle football game, I think it was third grade,

the center of a wee else, I didn't know how you were gonna be, but I had pretty good expectations. I noticed just about every time you got to ball, you broke away for a big run and/or scored. That happened. Oh, number 23 you were wearing in those days, I recall. And so it showed super early for you and football.

I could have said the same thing about AJ, it was clearly he was running away from people and tackling people like crazy in football, but I'll give another one. A track. AJ ran track one season as a very young guy and I remember vividly remember this part. I think you might have been in a relay. By the time AJ got to baton at the end, they were half a track behind and he roared around

the track caught the leader and then roared ahead of him and won by like a hundred yards. It seemed physically impossible and so then I thought, "Huh, that's interesting. I think he's fast and he was probably like six." So it showed very early and then you guys just kept piled on on as you went and then you started doing things later on that actually built on your skills, but in the beginning you

could see you had it both mentally from the standpoint of aggressiveness and excitement, not just being aggressive, but it's being excited to play and then get after you to compete. How about you, business wise? This is wise. I had stuff early in my career, but I'm going to give you one that was much later if I could.

I have been head of sales, Alexis Nexus, I had not exactly been replaced, but another guy came in and had that title and they moved me to another role of ours a lot more customer facing every day, but I went to a senior leadership meeting, it was all the very top leaders of our business. I know that there was a bit of a low, the meeting wasn't going particularly in an exciting

direction and they asked me to get up and explain something, I forget what it was. And I was probably the most experienced person in the room despite the fact that it was all the leaders of the business.

of why aren't we great, like we used to be great and I described when the guy that hired me at Lexus walked into the Supreme Court of the United States and sold Alexa to the Supreme Court and I've told that story before on your podcast and I just felt like crazy energized and enthused and earnest and I gave this talk and then we got done, they had hired people to run the meeting for them and they came to me and they said we want you to close the meeting tomorrow

and I did a similar thing the next day and something like inside me that made me like more powerful than I actually probably should have felt and more experience and I wanted to get to their emotions and it's it seemed to because from then that point on I felt like a very different kind of respect I have from the leadership of our business.

I just felt like wow there's a lot of things that I never felt particularly strong at like

business strategy or running all the financials but when it came to describing a situation where we're a big and strong and powerful as a company I know how to do that and so they just kept

“putting me in those positions for years and I think at all had that germination happened in an”

individual meeting where it stuck out that he had this one particular skill and that was to powerfully describe what we do best. You said that to me real early and have reminded me time and time again and I remind others now and there are examples of people that we could talk about both maybe good and not so good that if you're going to get good at something get good at being able to stand up in front of a group and give a one minute three minute 10 minute

60 minute talk be able to story tell be able to get up and communicate effectively keep people on the edge of their seats give them something useful and practical and now age and I talk for a living maybe share more about that advice that at least you share with me and maybe differently with age since his career started as an athlete and mine started and sales and leadership the importance of just being an effective not only speaking to because people still tell me

about the Keith notes right the Keith emails but old school Alexis people I love to hear your

“overall thoughts on that I believe in a business setting the most important skill you have”

is as a stand up communicator and by that I mean you can stand up in a moment's notice and respond to challenge which is actually the more common thing or give a speech which is much less common and the ability to take in information process it in your head quickly understand it and give an appropriate response or appropriate impromptu a little talk is a crazy important skill

that so few people have it's stuns me that you can go get an MBA and never take a speech class

some my greatest realizations about any particular skills I had came in a speech class at a higher university when I was like 20 and standing up there I thought this feels pretty good I like the reactions I'm getting and so I just I just ran with that and said this must be what my skill is but I think it's a shame that we don't emphasize it more and to your point so much of communication these days is written oftentimes on a phone and a text or whatever form it takes

but written communication is absolutely as important as as vocal stand up communication but I think it should be emphasized 10 times a hundred times more than it is in our actual educational system what do you think age I mean yeah I just know from talking like kids and other people like people are scared to death to get up and speaking front of people and I think that's natural to be scared to death to do it but you just have to do it and I guess every job every

you don't like technically have to do it but I think for anybody it can only help you if you get up there and whatever it is like everyone cares about something everyone's passionate about something so you could easily even without preparing if someone's a talk for a 5 or 10 minutes about whatever you're super passionate about it and I think you get done with it and yeah people might say oh man didn't go as well as I thought it would ever like anytime I've ever spoken

in front of people I prepare and do all this and then afterwards I'm like oh man like I envision it turning out better and it's it's turned out great I feel like and people have

had positive responses and everything but you always think about like how it could have been

better and what I missed what I meant to say here and how I meant to do this but yeah I mean everything pistol sane is just like what a coach is supposed to do for I related back to football like a coach that can clearly show you the path and let you know in also like day to day they got to be able to get up there and do that and not just get up there and speak because they feel like they should like get up with a true message and a true something that you

“you need to get your point across me to show them and say hey this is not what it's about”

we're trying to get to this and show them and explain to them what you're trying to be yeah I mean there's so many parallels between football and business and how it all works

and they're all trying to get people together going in the same direction one of the things I think is common with I feel like maybe we were born with this pistol you two the book I just publish is all about the power of compounding and it's really like if if you're not going to be brilliant then you got to be able to endure right so I mean I mean I mean I mean by being brilliant but I can win by being able to endure over time I can stack days right I can get up and do the thing

day after day and I think we've done this for a long time whether it was in sports and now beyond that and so this power of consistency I think it's in our DNA this power of understanding the magnitude and the importance of compounding habits and routines and rituals pistol maybe you start what do you think about this idea and how it feels maybe it even comes more naturally to us I don't know it's still really really hard you still got to make the choice you still got to do it right

age and I had this kind of unwritten rule that no matter what we do the night before we're going

to get up and go to the first lift when we were in college we're going to get up and go

be with our teammates you don't have to go to bed early all the time you're right but you're going to get up and go to work no matter what regardless of how you feel and now we just kind of taking that to everything beyond those days what do you think of this beyond being a great speaker

“I would say it's right there as a number two being the show up first right you must show up”

you must show up on time show up with full power not some you know drag yourself into situations whether it's a meeting or a customer event whatever it might be but every single day showing up is the beginning of it and then once you're there whether you're lifting weights or you're writing a sales proposal or whatever it might be put the effort in day after day anybody that's been

great at something they probably didn't get great on the first day but they did the right types of

things along the way that eventually it shows itself I mean I think Steve Jobs scrubbed around for a while before he found his passion for sure and started building what became Apple and every other innovator probably I mean I've read the Elon Musk stuff a lot about his bankruptcy your near bankruptcy and he was at the edge of failing and yet he kept coming in doing what needed to be done to build a great company and so you know I'd see you guys lifting weights and the

basement when you're in like the fourth grade and just pound them away and clearly as a fourth grader or a second grader it doesn't show up in the form of muscles right away but over time you're stacking that work that's not just the physical element that you're building you're building a strong brain you're building a I am tougher than perhaps others that I won counter in the world and so whether I'm getting mentally tougher or physically tougher I think it's incredibly vital to being a

really successful person yeah I mean as I was lucky enough to build relationships with a lot of your teammates especially in Green Bay over those nine years and I remember when we have conversations about you they would they would use kind of the unsexy words like the most consistent guy on the

team I know he is going to be where he's supposed to be on every single play first guy in the

weight room will be lifting every day gonna work and you did that your entire nine years there and I'm sure and Cincinnati in Atlanta as well when you were there afterwards and certainly don't Ohio State that goes guys say the same thing and now taking it to what we do beyond sports what do you think about this idea of consistency of stacking days the power of compounding habits and what you do with your work today I mean yeah it's easy to like say and think about but it's like anything

else word yeah it's not cool to talk but it's not like fun like you said the sexy words not

“showing up every day being there doing what's right yeah that's the only way I know how to do anything”

because that's just how I guess I was wired from a young age it's saying like it helps to me that for me eating like I could eat the same thing every day my whole life I have no problem doing our love scrambled eggs I don't need to go on a tangent about it but I can eat scrambled eggs give me 10 scrambled eggs every morning I'm the happiest guy a lot I love going taking my kids to tournaments in staying like you know like the Spring Hill sweets type places where

they have the continental breakfast the free breakfast down there and then I go down there's my kids now my girl man I'll go down early get a lift in while they're sleeping and bring up a big plate of eggs or you guys won't believe this another another awesome place with free eggs down here I'm consistently for everything and I think that it makes it easier for me like I don't need anything exotic I don't I don't need anything crazy but yeah I mean that's that's what sports

“are for me that's what everything is like all right I can't come in there and all of a sudden one”

week decide to turn it on and then all of a sudden become good no it's like years and years is all that and I didn't think about that at a young age I do remember I think I've said on here before

get better today and like when I first started hearing on the guy that's like cliche coach speak like

whatever I started thinking about like well yeah no today I'm gonna work on my hand I'm gonna get I'm gonna get better my thumbs up elbows I'm taking a blocker I want to have perfect hands and I won't be violent and then throw these guys off me like every day you think about something to get better at my goddess actually works like it's actually cool you when you when you have some intention going into it it's everything and it just like it's reps from the first time you

do something until the you know you think of the difference like the first time you did anything

“compared to the hundredth time you've done it you should be much much better and that's how I”

kind of view everything yeah I think taking that approach to everything has served us well especially doing it when nobody's watching or they're not around and not perform it there's a lot of

performance stuff now that I noticed that that starts to bug me they'll be kids coach coming

on an extra one oh let me run a night like shut up no we're done like no you don't need it you run an extra one when we're gone when nobody's here you don't need to ask me to run an extra sprint or an extra lap because you think your dad on the side is gonna be awesome where your dad's not gonna yell at you when you get in the car like we don't need to do things perform would do it because you want to be great and sometimes I think honestly if I wanted to do extra

stuff at times I would wait till everybody left and then do it or I would you know I would wait till the wait room cleared out before I could win it because I don't want people I don't want it to look like or think like I'm doing this because they you think I should be doing this

“well remember eight so after practice when we're playing together for a few years in high school”

we wouldn't live weights after practice in the center of all gym because other people would see us and so we would drive to premier fitness which is by the date mall and you would sleep in the car I remember I would drive and you would be asleep and it would be like a 12 minute ride and you would sleep for like eight minutes and then we'd go and this would be after practice and do extra lifting beyond the stuff that our coaches had us do but it wasn't like a big deal

I don't think we even really ever talked about it we just were like all right let's go premier and then you take a little math and the ride and we'd go but I think that's it's the same way people say how do you write a book in the midst of doing this and I say we'll just get up

an extra hour early for 200 days in a row and never miss a day that's easy but you can do it

like you can't you can do anything I mean that's a lot to say 200 days as well well then just start with 30 or 10 or five start it's starting hey for two days I'm gonna do it two days in hopefully continue to start training together but I mean it is absolutely possible anybody can do it it's just you're not willing to do it that's just that you're just not willing to do it like

“you are capable but you do have to make the decision and then you have to follow through and then”

follow through and then follow through and so I think that's really big age I want to get one of the funny stories about you've told us before with Pat in with me because mainly because I copied this afterwards you met with Mike Nolan when you were I believe in college getting ready to go be drafted into the NFL's at correct yep tell me the Mike Nolan story also Mike Nolan was the head coach of the 49ers when I was a student in college at a high state yeah and I was still in

school it was like a month or two before the draft the Niners brought me out for a visit so I got I went out there and got to meet with Mike single theory was actually a lineback of coach at the time met with all the different coaches and up going to dinner with the coaches Mike Nolan got to write in his car we went to this cool place in San Fran you know there's a ballet car guy and we're getting out of the ballet and Mike Nolan didn't have any money to tip the guy so

he was like yeah you're gonna be extra really cash on and I had a $10 bill and I gave him a $10 bill like yeah here you go thank you appreciate that any tip the guy just because he didn't have any cash on him at the moment we had dinner all this stuff and then the visit was great and then my college house that I lived in we didn't get much mail like who sent in mail in college and it didn't have very often I get a something from San Fran I opened up and it's a nice handwritten note

with a $10 bill for Mike Nolan tell me thank you so I like the fact that he remembered that and then I've over the years I've gotten like he does he was doing some serious sex and radio I've gotten to run into him a few times and I remind him of that story and he's like oh yeah I felt still feel terrible didn't have any money on me at the time like he was a really good dude I knew right there like I could it's guys paying attention like he he knows what's going on so I I

thought it was pretty cool I love it I love that story I I was at double days I don't know a few months ago out with one of the leaders that we work with he's a great dude and I didn't bring cash because I was going to pay the tab with a credit card and they brought the bill and then our friend Johnny Thomas happened to be there that day who owns the restaurant and he took the bill away and he's like I got you you know and I said this is a problem because I don't have any money

to tip the waitress and the guy I was with tipter in this case 20 bucks inflation I guess and tipter 20 bucks and so I remembered you telling me the Mike Nolan story so I wrote him and they

him a nice thank you note gave him 20 bucks and cash after hearing that story one other thing too

“I wanted to get to is because I have a fun Tahoe story that I remember that I think applies well beyond”

Tahoe and I'd love for you maybe to tell one if you want to or at least respond to what I'm going to share and maybe we didn't even share the same one but I think it was a few years ago we get the whole number nine hold number nine is this beautiful par four it's a short par four for you you can actually see Lake Tahoe down the left side of the hole and there are a bunch of trees down the right side and it's got a little baby dog leg right it works well if you're

going to hit a nice little cut you can actually normally drive the ball up to a distance to where you have like a little 54 degree flip wedge and you know put in for bird but on this particular day you hit it right and it cranks off of a tree I think you remember this one it cranks off of a tree

and actually comes backwards and it lands and the first cut so not the deep rough but the first cut

roughly I think we shot it at like 254 yards away from the pin we get a distance and the group in front of us is a few guys and one of them is Jack Wagner singer actor guy who actually is one that tournament a few times and before we even get to the ball you say to the people we were playing with and to me all this will be fine I'm just going to get a four iron and I'll hit it on the green and I'll have a birdie look and you know that's normally you're just trying to like

advance the ball or do whatever we get to the ball the lie wasn't bad we shot it right we got our distance but Jack is still kind of reading the green and trying to figure out for his put as he's getting ready to go and you just stand over the ball and you say I'm just going to go and I said well no because if you hit it good he's still on the green you can't hit into him you said now why I'm gonna hit on the green I'm just gonna go and then before I could even say anything

you take the claw back and you swing you hit the ball and as the ball is in the air and it's coming down and it's about to land Jack Wagner pulls his putter back and starts to hit his putt as your ball is landing on the green the fan start clapping in the middle of Jack's back swing and he's putting and it literally landed right next to him to like 25 feet and to me there's two parts of story one it's just funny that you almost hit him as he was in the

middle of putting on the green in front of us which you shouldn't do it's not great etiquette but it was kind of funny two was your mindset and this is the part I want you to respond to well you can respond to whatever you want and that is this kind of belief of I'm pretty far away I just hit a bad shot I'm gonna hit a good shot and I'm almost gonna speak it into an existence

“and then I'm gonna do it and I think this is something that could be helpful for people”

and I wonder how you truly think about it like did you actually believe in that moment I am gonna hit this four iron 254 yards out of a decent lie onto the green and then have a birdy look and I've heard you talk about this a lot before this is just one tiny example of you speaking something into existence and then doing it the Jack Wagner parts just kind of the funnier element of the story how do you honestly think about those moments where something

bad happens and then you respond and make it better I mean I don't know especially with golfing

with that moment like I 100% remember everything about it because I first of was I was mad

I hit a drive I mean yeah I hit a lot of drives out of bounds but I hit the tree and how far back it came I was like all right but my instant thought was like you know I tell you all the time out there I tell everybody if I can find my ball I'm getting a birdy like I can and I think I made one or two birdies the whole tournament so but I still feel like if I can find my ball I'm getting up and down and I definitely want 100% believe I was gonna put on my green though yeah like

that that was no question in my mind and I remember getting like I remember me and you like going as I'm trying to sprint up to my ball to hit it I remember you trying to almost slowly down like trying to get me to wait a second but you can't like they're still on the green and I'm like yeah no I know and so I planned on getting on the green I thought maybe I say if I miss hit this I'm going to roll it up and we can call bull y'all for right bull y'all for and I struck it it came out

clean and it came out pretty good and I remember I was just flustered it was in the air and I remember

“like okay I think here we go I don't think we yelled for and I remember hearing like even from”

way back and kind of I respect the ball hitting the green and Jack looking back and then then I'm saying that I apologize to Jack right now I did kind of live too and when he he's like well yeah we're wondering like why why would you even hitting like at the time I were on there why were you even hitting I was like oh I was I was so far away I didn't think there's any chance I was getting to the green jack you know my bad I could hit a shot of my life and I did hit the

shot of my life but I did believe I was going to get there like I knew if I hit this good it's

delusionaly confident in my golf game and feel like if I like we have why not someone like

someone's got a win this thing why can I win but beyond that if you look at people who put a positive dent in the world they're delusionaly confident they believe they can do things that they shouldn't believe that they can do or that anybody can do but then they have the guts to

“go and do it and have a actual belief that they're going to do it and I think that's a”

trait that can it be developed I hope so maybe the reps and the compounding is part of that too like doing the work but this belief that I can do something again this is a funny example but I think it's a very real thing of I think I can do something that's I'm a little bit delusional and I kind of like that like I want to be around people that are a little bit delusional with what they think they can do I think yeah why not I mean a lot of it partly especially when I

verbally when I talk about her say stuff like that I do it around my kids to try to pump them up and pump their confidence up because kids like that's all I care about is them being confident and everything they do especially sports but I am so like my kids at the age now where they love to tell me I'm all year old you can't move your knees hurt your you know you have no chance dad you're not fast anymore and then every once in a while you gotta remind them who you are you

know and so I do that every once in a while like once a year so I'm gonna take off on them catch them and sprint or whatever it is or if we play the boys and two on two basketball like you know they're going to be crushed it's over yeah anytime or over I'm going to no mercy like they're getting destroyed yeah but I'm delusional like I all tell them oh yeah definitely I'm like I'm making that shock give me in that guy I rebound all the time from my daughter she gets upset sometimes because

I like get shots up too okay I'm not just rebound I need some shots like I need I gotta get my points but no matter what I I try to tell them it doesn't matter I don't care if I miss 15 or every single shot next one in my brain the next one's going in like the next one's going

“in no matter what and I it almost started out as a joke I think when I was a kid and it just”

became what I do and how I think about things like I don't care the next one no matter how bad it is next one's gonna be great I think as a quarterback you gotta have that belief I've tried to take that same thing because I in college at waiver at times right you lose a job and you lose some confidence and lose some of that belief and so it's like you gotta regain that you're just not as good if you don't have some of that like I can make that throw I can do that right I can squeeze that

sucker in there you know like I think that's a good thing pistol when you hear this what do you think about this I'm reminded of a thinking who Bill Simmons is the announcer he uses the term irrational self-confidence because there are some people I see they are irrationally self-confident but I kind of like it it's not really irrational which just as long as you believe it's possible it's possible yeah regardless of what it is so yeah yeah I think it's a positive not a negative let me

get to some of these questions let's start with pistol what's a risk or I can go first what's a

risk each of you has taken that as paid off I'll sell my she's awesome I mean I left corporate America the end of 2017 going into 2018 great job VPS sales elsewhere clinical solutions we were beating our number good pay good bonus great people loved them not everybody but certainly everybody on my team I loved so to leave that and kind of go from all of that to nothing but the market had told me a little bit that this podcast thing and the the business built off the back

end of that like speaking and leadership stuff that there was a chance but that's definitely the biggest risk I've taken because I had a family at that point too it's not like I was single and only only taking care of myself but I had immense belief and I and Miranda had immense belief maybe even more than I did and I think that combo has really paid off now years later it certainly was

little tough the first couple of years because you'd take a big pay cut and that's not fun but

certainly doable but I would say to me that was like it's probably the most obvious answer but it's also true and now you know we're on the other side of that and it's really good how about you pistol biggest

“risk or a risk that you've taken that's paid off yeah I think you guys might remember but you”

probably haven't thought of it for a long time in 1999 in fact August 1st 1999 I left Alexis Nexus where I had spent 14 years pretty good 14 years and I went out and joined this one person company and I made it a two-person company called performance technology to see if I could make it just as a public speaker out there in the business world and I did that for nearly two years but then one time I'm having dinner at a place called Carvers and in that restaurant was the then CEO

of Lexus Nexus and my business partner Michael said to me why don't you go talk to him and see if he'd be interested in you speaking at their national sales reading that's coming up and I went met with him his name was Lou Lou goes oh maybe but come see me tomorrow I got I got another idea that might be a little bit more interesting to you and the next thing I know six weeks later I left

a much bigger job than I had left Lexus Nexus with leading the biggest sales force in the

company I gave myself the gift of taking a risk August 1st 1999 I gave myself the gift of coming back to Lexus Nexus August 1st 2001 was a really on your birthday both and my birthday was a gift I came back on my birthday it was a gift yeah and my career even went up another five notches on returning so those those two years out there in the wilderness so to speak really helped me be ready for the next thing and it also says what if I hadn't gone up and talked to him at that dinner who knows

“for our future what if look like but whenever now because I did go up and talk to him so I think”

you know taking taking the risk of like hey go talk to this guy maybe get a speaking job out instead I got a job to my career wow yeah it's a good reminder just to go up and make the ask

what about you age well first off so Mike when Mike told you to go speak to Lou is he pissed off

that you left him then I was done yeah he was just lost his job he lost half his company it was kind of interesting because I felt bad and I once I knew I was going to make that move I had to go meet with Michael to tell him and it was it happened to be trash day that day in centerville and your mom said hey take this last bag or trash out to the cans my go okay and then I go I have breakfast with Michael I tell him the news that I'm leaving he's crying

he's very sensitive dude is actually crying well you know look at first watch look at a public break he wasn't sobbing but it was a gold nugget anyway we walked out and we walked out to my car and he said hey good luck to you man will be friends for life he goes hey why is there a bag of trash and you're passionate your seat and I was so preoccupied what I had to tell this good friend of mine that I had this bag of trash that I drove it all the way up to Van Derio

how I didn't even think about it great so that's awesome good age I don't know if I have like any I got mine's like football really I don't know like risk I don't know if you call it a risk but my

“fifth year early in the season I think maybe September even just in October I did something”

in a game I knew my wrist was messed up pretty bad like it was pop it was like it would almost feel like a clunk it would like clunk in and out it was super painful every time it happened in a game I happened to actually be miced up in this game I remember seeing the clip from it I went up to my train there's a train or Nate we were unbelievable guy I fished his wedding actually later and I went up I said hey something's all of my wrist I said I'm not getting an

extra I'm not getting MRI don't even ask me to but I need a cast like I need you to tape this up put a cast on here for my can't I can't bend it to the bend it was just deadly and so then I only did this because I had a teammate that like three weeks earlier heard his wrist and he came out of the game I remember talking to him about how it felt and I was like oh no that's like what mine that's I did the very similar thing that feels like and he was put on iR to

meet his whole season was over surgery right away and season done and I was like there not put me on iR I'll figure this out I had like our trainers make me a little cast that I practiced in every single day then we were casting the games it was obviously painful and everything but luckily that year we went on we ended up making a run in the playoffs and we won the Super Bowl and then I had surgery like two days later after the Super Bowl had the worst MRI of my life

Super was on Sunday we flew back Monday like afternoon in green bay I had to get an MRI I finally

“told my kid I think I probably got an MRI in this wrist and they're like oh finally okay because”

the doctors knew something was up but they didn't know how bad it was I guess that wasn't going to tell him wasn't looking at it and I had to do a laydown on my stomach my face down with my arm up in the air so they get to look at my right hand right wrist so I was looking at our straight and we had just won the Super Bowl too I lost 50 pounds sweating laying on that table I was so hot and just sweating now it was it was a brutal MRI and then of course after the MRI the

like what what you didn't tell us about this whole wrist is totally ligament all this stuff yeah they had to do this whole three four hour surgery with a screw and a pin in my wrist and a cast broke three or four months and I got the cast off and became fully like healthy right as training camp opened that next year but yeah just by luckily I decided that I was like I'm not there's not really a lot of these I mean I don't remember affecting your play yeah I mean it

it I grew to because you made the probe all that year and the probe all the way I learned how to play with a little cast on and luckily like as the year went I even like I cut down my cast a little bit it started out pretty high at my arm and I cut I would take a little bit off of it as I was feeling okay I would handle it but yeah like if I were to let them give me an MRI and X-ray they would have most likely shut me down and sat me out for the rest of the year and tried to get

me have surgery wow and I'm like an interject on that the last time I walked through the Packers

really serious a little bit of a description yep it was right there oh I didn't know that how to do it yeah I mean it's I don't know if it's there today but it was there you go that's cool that's awesome okay how do you teach standards of greatness to your kids pistol on you go first how do you teach standards of greatness to your kids how do you teach your kids that high standards I

guess is a good way to put yeah I don't know if you're always overtly teaching high standards I

think it starts with exhibiting high standards as best you can through your work efforts the respectfulness and so forth but I do think it's very conceivable to say can we find a way to build joy into work right things that others might perceive as work so when you're young that's kind of practicing things so whether it's standing under the basket and rebounding as AJ just mentioned a little bit ago whether it's throwing passes on the sidewalk to see how high you can jump and catch them

whether it's going to the batting cages 11 o'clock at night and hitting and hitting and hitting and having the joy in the work the joy in the process of becoming great to me leads to the reality of becoming great and so to me I think it's just about to your point if there's little layers you stack on each day of learning to enjoy the process and get excitement not just

out of the outcome but the excitement out of what I'm doing to get to the outcome yeah is what

“do you think it's tough I think like pisto said you got to like you show them kids I bet I remember”

I asked some of my kids friends about like their parents or like their parents coached them and they say well my dad tries to turn everything into a life lesson they said and I'm like oh that's interesting because my kids kind of think the same thing if you're like you can't just explain to them what it is or something like well you know what you should be doing here what you need to do and like yeah I'm just shooting hoops I'm just throwing a ball like I don't I want to just do this I don't

need to you to explain to me what happened to you 25 years ago and while you're tough and why you know whatever's going on so I think you show them I think you just got to show them what it is show them consistency without trying to push them and tell them what to do and they'll just naturally hopefully want to follow in your footsteps and want to figure that out and I I mean it's tough though at times like if you feel like like our kids we don't have good or bad games like

did you play harder did you not like that's all I care about did you play hard and sometimes I've worn you kind of have to show them what it is to play hard and Jack Johnson my brother my one he kind of reminded me that a couple years ago he was but he was yeah he said you kind of got a show them and tell them you can't just say play hard like sometimes they do think they are playing as hard as they possibly came where they're definitely not and if you showed it to them

then maybe they would so many you kind of kind of describe or at least show them what it looks like when they actually play like to the certain standard like I said it's all attitude and effort

“is all I care about and it's all we talk about yeah I think it's just you something you have to”

live every single day yeah again consistency I I agree I think too don't know who said it leadership is caught more than it's taught right and so that's us being the model so knowing like one of my primary role as a dad husband is to be the model right a meaning no leader can expect their people in this case we're talking about kids but no leader can expect their people to do something if they're not doing it if I have low standards then obviously they're

going to have low standards so that's why it's like if we're going to choose to do something like let's do it to the best of our possible ability or even sometimes make it fun we're in line of Chipotle and making sure we look them in the eye and say thank you to each person who makes your bull or whatever like fun games like that so then it creates the habit of being let's say grateful for example of saying thank you of being kind or holding the door or being curious about

another person like we have to model that first and foremost and they see it you know they see

all this stuff even if they want to make fun of us or act like they don't we know they do so I

“think how do you teach it I don't think you teach it I think you model it that's how I would answer”

that question of the three who's the most regimented we probably all are all are I don't know what do you think pistol I don't know pistol it's one of you too when the regiment and I take that you don't think you're regimented I think I'm regimented in a in a much less organized way than you guys what does that mean what does that mean I want to hear regimented I feel like I don't know I'm in regimented I'm you guys like I don't know I think you guys you playing an

out better you documented better you like write it down better you're more organized in that I'm regimented out of like instincts you know I gave a speech you know a month and a half ago I used Eli to put my powerpoint deck together all thinking of all that stuff is tough I could tell them what I wanted but I'm just not like I don't know I'm not as good like following up and staying I don't know like how to describe it I know you guys probably know I think yeah

I think part of it that helped me is like 12 years at a corporate job where you're using like all these tools to calendar your days and having to make cold calls and cold emails like

cold calling sales type and some people still think of that as a bad word and I will hate that forever because as pistol you've said forever like the whole entire world would come to a screeching halt if sales professionals didn't exist but I take that same regimented mentality to everything like like even being in a catty age you know like if I'm gonna be a catty like I'm else well try to be as good as I can be like the towels got to be a specific amount of moisture on it

not only to clean the clubs but for your hands because you don't wear a glove right if we're gonna do it then do it well whether it's giving a talk working with leaders doing a podcast writing a book PA announcer right you know pistol you know you got to see a lot of those games I took that job way more serious than probably anybody in the history of the high school thing so ultra high school because like I wanted to get all the pronunciation right I wanted to make the girls really really

excited when they had a big play like all these things the music playlists like I was in charge

“of that all of that I think if you're gonna do anything then you might as well like do it really”

really well and for me I guess to do it well again like there's a regimented part of it. I think the works probably throw an HR off on the regimented but sometimes we've used as synonyms regimented and disciplined yeah and I think if you'd said discipline H probably would add a different response so to me regimented really talks about some of the things like you described how to write a book yeah I've been up an hour earlier every day for 200 days that's regimented

that's also high degree of self-discipline so the AJ regimented here's one for you I think every year as I recall when you would go to training camp whether it's for the packers or later on with the Bengals you would have a bit of a notebook and you would start your notebook fresh and you would write down everything as if it's the first time am I right at that or did you just kind of keep the old notes and no you right that's how I learned writing old school papers so yeah we would reinstall

the defense every spring every summer and I would always come out every year reinstall like the

same thing yeah so you're treating it though as if this is the first time so you're rewriting so like you knew it with so I would imagine you do that so that you don't have to think right you

“just place yeah so I trust your instincts I think that's what football is it's anything hey”

do I think that's the work I think that's the right do everything do all the work and all the prep so then when it's time you just trust your instincts and you don't have to think like I think yeah you're right I think that's anything well pistol like if you're good in a sales call sales presentation if you're good giving a speech the people who are the best they don't really have to get ready because they're always getting ready every day it age already knows a defense so you

could walk in be like I've been here this is my ninth year whatever and say I know this defense but treating it as if I'm going to take the same notes and when we install the same thing I've done at nine times but I'm going to do it again so that once you're on the field you just go you let it rip yeah if you're not taking it for granted you're not taking for granted you're saying I'm I have to treat this just as importantly in your nine as I did in year one yeah yeah well the order you get the

more you understand that too what do you mean the more you understand like how I'm how cool it is I think I remember driving I like also those my notebooks with all my all the football installs it started as I got older playing like it was like a little diary too I would write in like things I didn't like from coaches hey definitely don't do this if you ever coach or do that it was

usually positive stuff I'm always put that in the parentheses like when I go see a speaker so I

I'm writing notes on what I'm learning from the speaker and then in parentheses they'll do something that you think is not good hey that's like by coaching myself it's weird how

“everybody has their own way of taking notes yeah you have to and I think that's I mean everyone”

learns you understand how you learn too and you can't get a pigeonhole and let someone tell you how happens in football when people tell you how to watch film how to study thermal this what you need to do and like well no I how I see things how I interpret it is much different so I need to well I'm going to watch this way like you just got to find what works for you however that goes what about beating your shellfish allergy yeah I've never heard of this before until you've told

the story well how did you beat your shit hair about it I've seen what happens to you or at least

used to happen to you when you had some type of show too yes how did you beat it but first off

I've had doctors have been doing this with young kids now I think that you've there who have changed the medical field for I don't want to take it take any credit for that I came up with it on my own like you know there's no big thing about it but yeah I tried I believe lobster when I was in high school my senior year somewhere and my eyes exploded all that I couldn't really see I could sleep in the pitch yes you just like that and I was like what happened I guess it's the shellfish

thing that tried like a shrimp six months later year later and same thing had my eyes are shut throat your tongue gets like tingling weird all that stuff so it took years I didn't have any shellfish because I didn't really care I didn't like shellfish anyway at the time but then for some reason I thought shrimp cocktail looked good I wanted shrimp cocktail so I started what ended up being

I'm going to try it I'm going to be a guinea pig I think I can figure it out and so I would take like one tiny bite of shrimp and then my eyes would explode and that would wait a couple months then maybe I'm in another situation I'd have a little bit bigger bite of shrimp my eyes would explode and so I just over the years all of a sudden one day I don't even remember the day when I was like boom I had like four or five shrimps and I'm my here we go and my eyes just got like red and they didn't

explode they didn't like swell shut and then now here we go I can eat any shellfish I want even I don't really like it shrimp is fine it's okay if it's there I might try a couple but yeah I don't love it yeah I'm not obsessed with the bany means but I was it was great great to see my body respond the way that I was hoping it would I love this again it kind of flows with the whole theme of this entire conversation of this determination to overcome and irrational self-confidence correct

is there a little revisionist history or was this an active plan from the beginning that always

plan always a plan yeah yeah I was a public about I told Nate we had a trainer back that I remember it might have been one of the first times I was able to have shrimp and my eyes not explode we would to Nate's parents as he lived when we played the Kansas City Chiefs in preseason we would

“go to his parents house a bunch of players for dinner and I believe one of the first times I had”

shrimp my eyes didn't completely swell shut was at Nate's house and I remember thinking like fool I had to humble myself my cheese what this is I'm I can do anything I like there's no bounce to what you can do here we go I beat the shellfish thing but yeah there's there's not revisionist history I but there wasn't like some big grand plan I want to today is the day I'm going to start micro dose of myself and she was shellfish that didn't happen but over the years I started gaining confidence

naked this is I tell you what we're really respond and well to this I think it's soon enough at some point I will be able to eat shellfish and it was like I think it was like six years worth of like trying little tiny butts here we are one of the things you struggle with those when you jump into a pool come on now you like to hold your no I don't know I mean we should have got that started on it talk to me about your coaching on how to jump into a pool first off dive

you dive into a pool even if it's 30 foot I'm a good enough athlete when you can I'm going I'm not diving straight down but yeah yeah yeah you gotta do a shallow dive no I mean that's just one of the things I sure hope pistol isn't plug in his nose down on floor don't he's jumping into a pool

I just don't understand it I don't get I never understood the pinching your nose situation

and jumping into a pool like water doesn't just magically fly up your nose and make you freak out the one time I've seen when it actually happens when I it's still not okay but if you watch people get baptized like adults get baptized and they hold them and they're going I pinch you nose I'm like no I've been baptized so I don't need to but I promise you if they're taking me and dunking me I'm not holding my nose when they dunk me so crunch your brain managed

“no it's nothing about it I agree I just think that's how it should be we were at having dinner”

family vacation and we went around the table saying like what's one of your biggest X you know the girls talking about dudes or whatever and that was one of what I had to say was it well that was mine like you can't do it like especially a grown adult like a kid you can give me leeway like okay he doesn't know any better he saw someone I would actually blame the parents and say he saw his dad do it but that's something that they can fix very quickly but I think it's just like no

just like you micro dose this shrimp just dive in the pool don't hold your nose either dive made of do a sweet can opener or sleeper yeah what are those driving with two feet what about that I thought I was doing it I assume everyone did it yeah I mean it became a thing because I told Pat about I guess and it's become a thing and people do yell at me a different you've been in talk with people yell that they drive with two feet instead of no it is one of the

things that people it does make me laugh and I always go and give them a little fist but my new

you were an athlete I'll tell them like yeah I could tell you you're a smart person I think it all started I mean my first car I learned on thankfully was a stick I had the little two door Honda Civic pistol and those birx old car the last stick shift then I had a ranger so I've always had a clutch so I'm using the left of the clutch but then when I got an automatic I think it honestly started from you got hurt right yeah I was always kind of I would do it a little bit

“I think when I was younger I never understood how using one foot I remember when they were trying to”

take when the first time I was learning to drive they're like well no you you shouldn't use your left foot for the break I was like why they said you're gonna ride the break and picking why would I ride the break I'll use the break when I need to use the break I'm not going to ride it look my foot on the gas too it just one of those things that I can't I didn't comprehend and so then yeah I got never hurt my growing knee and stuff I wouldn't want to lift my right foot from the gas to the

break so I could just keep that right foot there and then use my left and then like you know that's just that's just how I drive why not genius no genius I just think it that's just how everyone's

to drive and guess what people's all your brake pads you got to be worn down you go through brakes so quickly no not at all I just think it's fast saying to learn and for just humans in general to learn about the weird parts of people or things they believe that maybe others would look at them and think they're crazy do you guys want to do the draft yeah okay wait to see pistols okay so we drafted the last however many hundredth episode all different types of random

“stuff and I think the one that is really interesting is because this is a question that gets”

asked at like icebreakers or something is if you were gonna have dinner who are some people that you'd want to have as dinner guest and so I tweak the rule a little bit I want this to be a dinner that could actually happen like you could somehow organize it meaning every person on your list has to be alive right so this is a dinner that if you worked really hard enough you could maybe make it happen okay pistols you're bored correct with that yeah people are alive okay and so

we'll do a snake draft where well at age go first I'll go second pistol you go third which

means you get two and then it snakes back to me and then goes to age he gets two and around around we go and until we each get five people to be at our dinner and then we will see who wins the draft and I think the how you decide who wins the draft is like what looks like the most interesting fun cool dinner table of people is that fair sounds good to me and I think little ring leader listeners who contribute can say something about that here yeah we get it's funny how pistol

somehow maybe like the list of ships last place every time no he gets first like that's your demographic too well what's your demo doing over there I know I know like oh I don't know

“I think pistols are pretty good I play a little bit younger too yeah last time age remember we”

did stranded island you had an iPad with whatever TV show and he picked it golf right and and then had to like broaden to the masters I guess which actually into being a good pick and I think help them maybe win that draft but uh a little bit alright so this is your at dinner you're gonna have five people with you who is the first person you want at that dinner table I would assume you guys might have this guy on your list as well but I'm taking Michael Jordan

all the one Michael Jordan I mean you know like he why Jordan why not like what the guy just everything about him so interesting I would just be cool I don't even need to talk I just want to hear him speak and actually know what you could see some other my other draft picks I think that might help spur some good stories out of Jordan too so I mean Jordan is he's the dude I he's my era I'm 42 years old Jordan yes like he everything about what he did his

competitiveness is crazy drive then did you hear that story he told recently about when he rented that house in the guy the head of the school who what phrase that I want you to make the phrase that he said he's like the most nervous he had been in forever just because he was so I just thought that he really humanized them and it was like a cool moment where he he talked about he was so nervous to make the free throw because there was like random people

that he rented the house from one of the sim oh I thought it was awesome that it was like

Jordan never shows like vulnerability or anything like that I feel like and he he was saying like

he was like the most nervous he's been in his video to show like there's video to prove it they had it from the backyard so I thought that was awesome and made me even want to have dinner with that guy even more I agree that's actually a really good one all right I'm picking

“Dave Chappelle I think he's got a combination of it's going to be really funny and I'm really”

optimizing for a good time lots of laughs he's interesting he's not afraid to share points of use I think we would agree on some and disagree on some and I love people like that where you're not even fully sure where he's going to come down on something he'll probably be really really funny local guy to right we could eat do this in yellow springs right here I close to where I'm at right now but I'm picking my first pick is Dave Chappelle our pistol you

get two picks I get two two picks and then it comes back to me yeah I have different themes across my guess my first one we all like a good army story military story and I am he's about to get that guy draft pick I'm sure admiral admiral William McCraven oh yeah the admiral on shards of the ballroom debris the captain Philips is on my list many many more I'm going to hear that but he's one my list first so he's my first round pick because I think he'd be fascinating and he's

everybody would love to hear he's awesome what a story talk about story teller oh my god well you know it yeah he's awesome yeah yeah my second pick has been the soundtrack of my

sports life and that is Dan Patrick I would like to have Dan Patrick who is an amazing story teller

he's presented the trophy it's Super Bowl's he's good pals with Adam Sandler he's good pals with

Darius Rucker and he's got an amazing amount of stories and we we are almost the same age

and so I would have Dan Patrick as my second pick there on my dinner is your board only my podcast guest Robert now yet well I mean you're two for two I know my next pick is also good friends with Dan Patrick I'm picking the second Dave and that's Dave Matthews we are going to play music I want comedy with Chappelle and I want music with Dave Matthews that he's gonna be singing and playing guitar in between the comedy of Dave Chappelle so my second pick is Dave Matthews all right age you get two

picks age oh boy that's a solid I still don't understand the snake giraffe thing like five years later since we're doing this go like this you see and when you get to the end of the snake

they let you go twice because you were at the end it's just how brains work there's never will

I don't never will understand because trust the process you get two picks now I do because I trust you guys aren't gonna have anyone on my list probably actually this next guy think you someone could okay the great Charles Barkley how could you know why are you just gonna go all the basketball storyteller no I'm not all basketball just Barkley I'm thinking of like you talking about a positive do that lightens every room he's ever been in and everyone thinks is the band

his Charles Barkley yes you're this year we got we got backed up when we made the turn on the last day and we get up to the T-box and Charles is about the T-off for his first hole of the day and you've probably seen the we I've sent you videos of like when they do the the bio of each player and so the guy is as he is reading Charles Barkley's bio Barkley hit his ball he did not wait to he did not wait until the bio was done he hit it literally in the middle of the guy doing

is it only player ever seen do that he just he was just like he's taken too long you stay talking too

“much and he just swung hit his drive right down the middle I think and just kept playing Barkley's the best”

yes Barkley's the man so I think obviously him and in I've heard recently he and Jordan are like making up they're they're getting back together they're gonna be be cool so that's a great another dinner guest and then third one my second one here I saw this guy post something yesterday I believe he turned 79 years old Arnold the man oh yeah oh yeah wow looking good he was out there lifting on Venice Beach and I just think he is so just his whole he talked about his whole life

story arc of from where he started to where he is everything he's done yeah Arnold would absolutely be the table talk about having this very perc delusional belief this dude comes over here and is like I'm just gonna make it happen lift weights mister Olympia biggest movie star ever governor

I mean what a life that's actually he'd be amazing what a good one okay my third one is I'm gonna pick

“someone who I think is one of the greatest story tell living storytellers in the world this is just”

gonna be story after story and also maybe the greatest voice alive I'm picking Mike Rowe Mike Rowe during jobs he's got a podcast he's written books he's awesome I mean I don't know if I've heard the way I heard it is his podcast and the way he writes and tells his stories dream podcast guests all these are for me but dream podcast guest would be Mike Rowe like rich incredible voice even better stories Mike Rowe that's gonna be my table is gonna be perfect so far all right pestle

pretty good you get to yeah yeah my next one I like a little humor injected and you are I got chappelle there I've got somebody I think that is the queen of roasts I want Nicky Glaser at this dinner you are you really only picking podcast guest here you so far she will tear it up make fun of everybody have fun with everybody make fun of herself I think she's awesome I love her did you hear her process to get ready for that Tom Brady roast yes that's inspiring to hear how

many how hard she knew would it potential moment that was for her and thought I am gonna make

“the most of this moment I think that's even no better I mean she was incredible but that wasn't”

even better part of the story was I got this moment and one she had to call the people at Netflix and like begged to get on stage she earns the spot and then just goes nuts in her preparation had to team of writers she went on work the sets in a local comedy clubs like I love that part of the story yeah super preparation but she's she's amazing love it okay who's next you get to who's next it's Nicky I have to understand pestle I get you to sorry oh geez I'm not telling the

this is this is this is I'm the only one in the family understands how this works I wasn't thinking

alive and he wrote a great book called the speed of trust and it happens to crystallize my biggest belief about business that says if we have trust person to person we can make anything happen if there's a lack of trust we can make almost nothing happen and so whether it's AJ trusting that great defensive back behind him that he's going to be where he needs to be and that's an example of trust or whether it's I'm going to do a business situation I've got to trust somebody's numbers

that they're putting in front of us to justify something trust is the most important element to me

in terms of interpersonal once we build trust we can make anything happen so a young Steven

“coffee and the speed of trust was important to me and I think he could really teach us all something”

at that table all right so it looks like you are sticking to the podcast theme he's awesome dude also a lot of athletes in that family too one of them plays Britain I think is nephew plays Nianna fell is that right he's a return man for the Eagles yeah yeah really good player okay again we're focused on humor music storytelling and now I'm focusing on history who also is one of the greatest living writers that we have and has been in some of the craziest coolest

rooms ever and that's Doris Kern's Goodwin probably the current greatest living historian that we have and has written many books team of rivals all of the books about the history of our country about presidents about all of that stuff Doris Kern's goodwin and she's still again a dream guess I've sent her letters and call her and try to million different ways and have not got it yet but I'm still determined I think she's 89 to get her to have a conversation because I've seen her and

is just out of this world historian story teller so Doris Kern's goodwin is my fourth pick

I doubted she was on your boards but you never knew I didn't want to I had that was my next pick

I didn't want to risk risk it so I I just grabbed her in the fourth round already you get your final your final two picks here age all right I get two here okay then it comes back to me and then pills like it's one more only if you guys know this guy or not it just seemed very interesting to me you got a palmer lucky he had been to Oculus yeah androir they're very big of high-state sponsored now too but he has a gigantic things they're building in Ohio now he builds obviously weapons

and all kind of technology for the government for the military but he's he invented Oculus sold with a Facebook if you just see him he's he's like a movie character of what you think a super a billionaire tech whiz kid would be he's still young and he owns awesome like military boats

and helicopters and like listen to him talk about the future of technology as far as what they're

going to do for noitarian different things like just an absolute different human than I've been

“around and I think it'd be cool to just to just to see how he goes about his day and the story”

he has also just tell me I don't know he when I hear him speak he's super super passionate about what he's doing and he seems to be having fun like he he's just doing it the right way if you're like man piss off you seen palmer lucky 60 minutes special now all you got it just search on youtube I remember I sent him a cold email that night after I read it like and all the people like in his network I've been trying like crazy to get palmer lucky because he is so smart but also seems like a

reasonable good dude on top of being insanely smart already a billionaire from selling Oculus to Facebook or Meta or whatever and now anorals going to be even bigger maybe already is with the drones and all that stuff a while yeah why wild wild but seems like yeah fun and smart and like a really good storyteller too and and yeah fun guy that's a good one already last one for you last month for me this is a classic I may have used him in the past for things

but then though Washington he's a guy I say when when people tell you hey who would you want to play you in the movie since I've been ten years old I said Denzel like he is who I would want to

“play me even though our ages don't match up I know I think he could do a good job the dude”

seems very interesting he seems like sports he goes the basketball game son played football I think I'm played football sons a good actor as well but yeah how could you not want Denzel and that you imagine Denzel just sitting back like his hands like oh yeah Charles tell me about this Charles oh come on Mike what do you think like it would be I think you really with the Arnold Schwarzenegger and Palmer like this yeah yeah I'm not saying a word I'm just hanging out

yeah I don't think I would either all right Denzel I think he'd be perfect you guys look like I think you'd be perfect to play you in a movie I like that pick okay my last one I'm staying on the theme we got our comedy we got our music and we got our storytellers so my last one is also one of the greatest living storytellers one of my favorite writers authors and that is Michael Lewis Michael Lewis is sitting there because I'm also not going to talk at this dinner I'm going to

banter between Michael Lewis and Mike Roe and Doris Kerns goodwin and see what Chapelle thinks

“while Dave just kind of waits to play the next song I think that feels like the greatest dinner of”

all time if I add in another storyteller and that's Michael Lewis good pick yeah all these by the way are on my dream podcast guestless Palmer lucky by the way is also on that list that I choose for mine I'm trying to get all these people and I've had multiple attempts and got a little bit close but none yet so anyway pistol who is your fifth and final pick you broke my code early on that I'm only choosing this year on this podcast people that have been on the learning leader show okay

over these past 700 episodes so I'll finish it that way too we want to be entertained we want to be amazed at this dinner we don't want to just hear good stories we want to get out done I'm pick I know is the mentalist he is right fix we round it out oh it's got a little exposed this year by busing with the boys guy a little bit still doing it but he kind of he kind of has come back he seems to be doing it those is a character I went to New York City for that one that was fun

it was fun to be there with him but he was performing from the second he walked into the room to

the second he left the room he was oh it was funny to hear him do his thing I mean he wasn't we saw him in Tahoe and he was it was fun there the stuff he did out there he kind of he's a master he's a master how he interacts with people everything he knows how to do it all right pistol is gone admiral William McCray of in Dan Patrick Nicky Glazer Steven Covey and oh is he there pistol all right age Michael have it I don't know I didn't see it do you fall no he got up and just walked out

oh he got up yeah you got up and walked out I didn't see him get up I'm glad I didn't fall over it what happened back what happened small emergency small emergency no problem okay everything all right how good your mom just got home I took close a couple of doors oh geez I thought you got a heart attack or something well I wouldn't have got up and run away I couldn't see it up I couldn't see

“here I just saw your phone turned down I'm like geez you have a stroke I think I dumped your”

pants or something I didn't want to mess up the podcast I just said you don't go dying on us there

I said we don't watch you what do I always started to think like man is wrong going to keep this

in a pistol as a heart attack right here on the show and it would be at a be entertainment gold yes I was just recapped the draft pistol I said yours age got MJ Barkley Arnold Palmer Lucky Denzel mind Dave Shappelle Dave Matthews micro door screens good one Michael Lewis I mean it's hard that's a hard one I think I would like all these dinners I still like mine the best but I would like all of them based on this list it would be interesting to see how Jordan and Barkley

Arnold Denzel just getting them gone that'd be pretty good yeah one last question before we go um I always asked a champagne question out age and I had a dinner the end of last year where I asked this to all the guys it was kind of cool to see what they said I'll start with pistol champagne question pistol as it's a year from now your poppin bottles are celebrating like crazy with all the ones that you love what are you celebrating I'm gonna do it tomorrow night my 7th birthday

with all of you guys and your your spouses well we're doing it literally we're doing it tonight yeah I was doing yeah my bad it didn't rate my birthday tomorrow yeah the dinners tonight

“no that's what I want to I get to do it on the first day of this podcast year”

that's the night so all you guys together in one place cool restaurant we'll do some of these little questions properly to the group and then we'll adjourn later your house with all your incits so that would be good and it's good timing for you what about you age well I think I said it when we had that dinner like I said I want to continue to do what I'm doing I want to find a

way to always be in the moment and be present because I think your kids show me more than anything

you look back at your kids pictures when you're young like cheese this is crazy you got to slow down and enjoy it so I'm like I said I'm coaching on my kid's stuff I try to tell them as we're walking out of practice all same angle okay this is like I love being able to do this this is really cool that I get to come and be here and help with this and be around so I'm just being present in the moment not ever you know with kids you worry about everything with them so I just want to

celebrate enjoying them why they're kids so we had a dinner in Columbus is that November maybe it was cool some podcast guests age James Clear is awesome yeah Mike Deegan Rob Kimball just a great group of humans I'll do just kind of around the table in Columbus and yeah we asked this I remember age saying that and it was it was great of just this idea of being in the moment I would say for me just a good year of college for the older girls that are going to college and our family

three of them going on so I think that's it's a crazy year and so defined good I don't know hopefully

good year so if that's four front of our minds I don't think that ever goes away remember Uncle Dave told us

“like a family gathering recently goes you think you're gonna stop worrying about him you won't”

he's right you think you will when they get a little older nope you know and his kids are

powerful now they're older than me you know so I was just like oh yeah okay great yeah all right

awesome thank you I know we went long only because pistol couldn't get zoom working so it's your fault thank you for messing around but age I know you got to get ready to join the show thank you this was awesome thank you see you guys in a few hours you guys well yeah awesome you guys thanks it is the end of the podcast club thank you for being a member of the end of the podcast club

if you are send me a note Ryan at learning leader dot com let me know you learn from this great

conversation with my dad keep talking my brother AJ Hawk of you take away from my notes as we celebrate seven hundred episodes so cool how about that Mike Nolan 10 dollar bill story what's

“your version of paying attention and following through AJ didn't even remember that he lent him”

the 10 bucks for the valet but Mike made it memorable by writing him a thank you know mailing it to his college house and reimbursing him for the money we can all do our version of this following through being grateful saying thank you people will remember these actions forever what is your version of the Mike Nolan 10 dollar bill story and then I love it delusional confidence and or self belief it's one of my favorite attributes about AJ he puts in the work every day so consistent

so reliable he is probably the hardest worker I've ever seen and from that he believes he can

accomplish anything whether it's flushing a four iron out of the first cut 254 yards or being a coach

for his kids or having that tough conversation he has a belief that he can and will do it positive self talk it's real I love being around people that are slightly delusional about what they can accomplish I'm trying to be more like that our world progresses and grows because of people who are slightly delusional about what they can do they have this belief I love it then be a consciously

“competent leader if you want to be vividly clear with your team you have to know your stuff”

and one way to do this do an after action review after wins and losses you got to understand why you win you got to know why you lose be able to describe both of them in detail a consciously competent leader knows why they win and lose and because of that they can teach others and be vividly clear with their messaging so good once again I would say thank you so much for continuing this hopefully rate at five stars you are regularly giving me the opportunity to do what I love in a daily basis and for that I will forever be

grateful thank you so so much talk to you can wait