(upbeat music)
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to a special edition of the Money Money's Podcast. We covered three court topics. Had to make money, had to invest money, had to give it away to charity.
As you guys know, this podcast is designed to be under 40 minutes, around 34 to 38 minutes for your listening pleasure, because the average workout is 45 minutes, the average commute to work is 45 minutes,
so we will keep this episode short and sweet for you, because we have what's called a 93% listen to rate. We stayed top 50 podcasts in the world, because we're listening to rate, helps us on the charts, and you help us on the charts,
liking, commenting, subscribing, and sharing. As we dive in, we gotta keep in mind. When you're listening to these podcasts, it's not just for you. You might hear from someone that can help someone
that's your friend, family, or follower, from your past, present, or future. This episode might help you six months from now, two years from now, you might be sitting there thinking, I should forward this episode to my friend,
“because of the important person that's on this episode.”
So without further ado, Courtney Reem, give us a quick two minute bio, so we get straight to the money. - Two minute bio, let's see, Chicago born and raised, moved to New York and I was 18,
and now reformed Goldman Sachs investment banker, originally cut my chops working on consumer acquisitions, things I've brought during gamble, Gillette's merger, helped take under armor public, was around all these brands and people
that were really contagious, so I'm sure we can get into, and it made me think if they can do it, I don't know if I can, so let's find out. So now, almost 20 years ago, left that with my younger brother.
Carter, who's been my business partner for 20 years, we have been starting things since in the form of everything from a venture capital firm to a bunch of our own things as entrepreneurs, and now we kind of have a little hybrid investor,
entrepreneur, we have a family office, and then a venture firm called M13. - So M13 gets emails coming in, people pitching, they see you in an elevator, they're pitching in the elevator,
every way someone's trying to pitch you,
what are the first few things to you immediately say,
no, like this is not something I want to invest into. - Well, I mean, from a thesis point of view, like everyone else, we're doing a lot of AI at the moment,
“so I think part of it's that we've changed our thesis a lot”
for M13, meaning we did a lot of consumer, then we were around for the direct to consumer boom, then that became consumer technology, now it kind of became general technology of which somehow has a consumer facing angles.
I think a big part of it is actually just staying on your thesis, but I think it's that, and then when you meet people, I mean, I'm impressed how many people are not succinct and no get to the point,
and then other people who are just like, there's something about him or her where I'm gonna listen more, or they feel like they're galvanizing something, and at least peaks my interest, doesn't get a check, but it keeps the door open.
- Yep, what are things that you're like, you know what, I actually want to go deeper on this, and here talk to my team, like I actually like this, are there certain words, or certain concepts, or certain things
that make you want to invest in something, or someone? - I think as it relates to the person, I'm now believer, the days of the Travis at Uber, I'll break through walls, like, you know, what is it, move fast and break things mindset.
I don't know if that's totally gone, but I think now I really look for, we all have pattern recognition, but also bias, where it's like, this person reminds me of me. Oh, I bet they'd be great, no,
I bet they could be able to tell me the dollar company. I think it's important to go, this person might be really different for me, but I see all the traits they have that could lead to, a really successful company.
So I, on the person side, I love the soft things that are harder to test for, you know, you start to kind of see how they deal with a little adversity, a little grit. Those are the things that I think are missing
with most founders, right, 'cause as you know, it's very, very, can look like up into the right, but it's more like a zigzaggy line, and so I love the founders who say,
here's what I'm good at, but here's what I'm not good at,
and therefore here's what I'm building, here's what I'm hiring, who's I'm surrounding. It's like being a president, at least in theory.
“You can't do everything, so you have to hire great people”
in your cabinet and Lutin and Sonald Hat, and I think I look for that in the people, and then in the idea, you know, so much, I say today though, I almost look for things, like when someone starts telling me they're an AI company,
but I'm like, you're not only not an AI company, you're a company that's not even a data company, you have some data that you may or may not know how to use, like that kind of is the immediate turnoff when everyone just says, oh, dot AI,
and I'm like, but you're not an AI company, right? - So there's a lot of companies that are raising at different stages. Some of them are raising a seed round when they're first getting their idea going,
some are raising their series A, like, you know, between one in $10 million range, and then some of them are in series B,
like, I want $10 to $50 million C, D, et cetera.
Did you evolve over time of what companies you wanted to invest into? And what would you say you land now that, what's what stage do you like of a company? - Yeah, well, the great news is,
is that I actually think I kind of have something for Evelyn these days, meaning if I like the person and where the company is at, I can probably find a place for it,
Meaning as we were talking off camera,
'cause I haven't seen each other in a second, I'm newly married, right? So my wife and I, I'd love to circle back to like,
“we're just kind of starting to do some investing together, right?”
And so she likes to do very early checks, things like, she's focused on women's health and beauty. So something to go there for our family office, really, we have total flexibility, and we've written, you know, small mid-8 figure checks
to, you know, seven figure checks, and we have a lot of flexibility where we go there. And then for M13, it's pretty much bigger seed and series A.
So the good news is, I would always show sign the M13 first
if there'd be a conflict, if they're like, "It's too early or other people agree, "it's not a fit right now. "Sometimes I write a personal check into something "and then we can track it from 13."
And then every now and then it's good when some of my partners are in on board with what I'm doing to just go, you know, I'm just gonna put a flyer in this just that we can talk about later. There's one of these new, new-ish fantasy sports betting apps.
We decided not to do as a firm. I put in a 100K personally and smart to 19x and three years. And we're like, yeah, we could use that one on the table, they're portfolio. - So for the founders that are listening
“that are out there, how do they approach a VC firm?”
How do they get the attention? 'Cause you get bombarded by hundreds of options throughout the year, especially as you guys and your firm got more and more famous and done more and more deals, your names on the radar, right?
So people go to M13 and they're applying, how do you filter through like what can make them stand out so that a VC firm will listen to them? - I think it's harder and harder because as you know, like the cost of ideas is really cheap.
The execution is dear and like I literally just yesterday was this isn't even meant to sound like a brag, but was like going to our IT firm going, I need you to keep tightening the spam filters 'cause it used to be, I'd maybe get like 50,
the cold out reaches today, now it's like easily over 100 and so it's like a day. - Oh my God. - And so it's like to just even look at that and say, oh this is spam, market of spam or delete it.
I mean, it just takes so much time. It's hard to have an assistant due 'cause occasionally there's something and there it looks like spam and it's not. - I'm in the rough.
- And then you never know, when someone's like,
"I have a friend who has, do you want to get the introduction "of my head I'm thinking, I have no butt." - Right. - You never know and occasionally it does happen so you kind of have to stay open minded.
So I think that's a long way of saying, I will be honest, it is pretty hard to just, as they say, it's not hard to get someone's email these days. I can tell you Tim Cook's email. - Sure.
- It's hard to get Tim Cook to reply. He's never replied to me, right? - Right. - So I think you have, and we, I'm sure like most people, as sad as it is, it is very hard to expect someone I don't know
from a background, I don't know, maybe with an idea. I don't know, to hit my inbox and meet it, just take a look at that, that would be a tough use of time. So really trying to find either some mutual touch point or a unique way to get in touch.
I mean, this is kind of an analog example, but like back in the day as emails taking off, I remember this guy who's a real well-known entrepreneur and he was trying to land sales accounts and he would send FedEx to everyone to get their attention.
Why his theory, and again, this is like 2,000, so they're with me. But he's like, if I was sending you a FedEx then, it was still novel enough, it was something where chances are a lot of people's assistance didn't open it
or even if it was 50/50, a much better shot that the boss opens his own FedEx, 'cause it was new, and he was like, I would just keep sending someone a FedEx every week till they replied. And they're like, okay, I got it, I'll take a meeting
and he's like, oh, no problem, I was just kind of warming up. And I do think I like to call it pleasantly persistent. I think everyone has to find their way to be pleasantly persistent and, you know, if you want it badly enough and you really think it's the right fit.
But it's also, you know, too many people kind of shoot their shot with like, I'm like, and so what, like, trying to, I don't know, either connect it back to the value, prop the win-win and why this fits with their firm's thesis, why I'd make a great angel investor.
Sometimes people lack that and it's not always obvious
at first glance, it might be obvious to them, but I'm just meeting them and hearing about it for the first time, so it's all those little nuances. - So on the personal side, there's also huge amount of options, real estate, stock market, cryptocurrency,
cash-line business, how do you decide for yourself what else to consider investing into? - Yeah, it's a really interesting time for you to ask me that question because my brother and I've been business partners for almost 20 years, we have obviously started the same things,
invested in the same thing, so it was kind of easy to keep our money pulled. Now we're starting to change a little and that I just got married. He's been married for about four years.
He has a couple kids, so maybe our needs change, maybe our, you know, kind of monthly, yearly, nuts change. So I think when the process of exploring that meaning, I don't know, our late father used to always be like, diversification for the sake of diversification isn't good.
“You know, that's how you end up with stuff you don't know”
and whatever else. And I think there's truth to that, but there's also like anything risk appetite, right? And so for the last almost 20 years,
Starting when my brother and I had very little money compared to now,
we had a very much a barbell approach. We were in tons of illiquid private things, different companies, we started, different things we invested, and then there was like what I would call just enough money sitting aside for the rainy day
where if it all disappeared, that 90%, the 10% would give us enough to rebuild. And that was great, and I'll say, over the last 12 years, my brother and I's personal IRR, return has average 44% annually. Whoa.
And let me tell you, like, if you knew where we started and where we're right now, the power of compounding
is a very powerful thing, 44% over 12 years
has changed the trajectory of my life by like many, many zeros. And I think it's important, though, to also write at this moment to ask me this, I'm realizing that the risks I took, which I'm glad I did, and thankfully on the whole day paid off,
are not the same risks I want to take, because the risks I had to take to get here, are not the same risks I want to take to preserve capital. And still grow, of course, but just not take the risk, whatever it is to have a 44% IRR,
would be very happy with something in the, this is where my brother and I are divergent, he's probably pretty maverick, and he still wants, maybe not 44%, but he wants 20, is that was like, you look how many few things have to net 20% IRR.
It's like, I'd be happy with like, low teens, somewhat set in, forget it. So I think I'm in the process of going, we should have hedges against this or that, or have some, we have very little that's like,
monthly income cash generated. You could teach me a lot about real estate, other than personal properties I own, which have kind of stacked up, we have no other real estate as an investment.
“So I think we're in the process of doing that”
as we get more liquidity. - We all grew up thinking it's rude to talk about money. You talk about it so bluntly, which is my whole passion, which is the whole reason I do this podcast
is to be able to have real life discussions, where it's not rude. We need to talk about, what happens with my friend borrows foreign or bucks and doesn't pay me back? How do you tell your kid what to do?
What if you're 17 year old once to at least a car, or should they rent a car by a car? Like, we think it's rude to ask about salaries, why is it rude to ask about salary? What if you don't tell your kid who's 22 years old
that you should get paid 60 grand, they get paid 45. Now they're on the hamster wheel for an extra 60 years until they get to 60 when they should actually got that from the beginning.
We got to have these discussions. Was that something that happened in the household? Like, when did you feel like, okay, we can have blunt discussion about money? - Yeah.
“I think my parents, especially my father,”
who I reference, he was really good about, as you said, like I think we're roughly the same. I mean, no one's teaching financial literacy, right? So he wasn't trying to teach me financial literacy in the sense that like I went to Columbia and Harvard
in New York case studies and balance sheets, but just going, those are the things that they can teach you at an MBA. What they don't even teach you is like, how much of my disposal income should go to rent.
I mean, now people are talking about that, but when I was a kid, I mean, even when I was in my first apartment, no one talked about it. So I think my parents taught us enough to have an idea,
but they wore a little bit of that generation where I would have no clue how much we did or didn't have growing up. I would know that like, oh, our house is a little bigger, a little smaller than Johnny's.
I would know we can afford to go to a nice dinner once a week, but just kind of understand that directionally. Yeah, I think so much has changed, right? We live in even parenting styles. I don't think you can live in my parents
who are kind of really loving, but in that benevolent dictator sort of way. I don't think you can be as much of an authoritarian now.
“I think you just have to be very open with your kids,”
so this is just one of those. But I think to answer your question directly, the person who said to me, it really stuck with me is we have some businesses with Tony Robbins, including a longevity startup called Lifeforce.
And so obviously, as he would say, proximity to his power, and when I'm around some of his stuff, he just said it quite simply.
My goal was always to help people live their best lives
and whatever else you you described to Tony, but then he wrote a bunch of books on taking control of your financial future because it was great that I helped you do your dream job or do this or leave this or change his habit.
But now if I don't help you think about how to manage your money, it could all be for not. And that really resonated. - So as you go through your journey, you've watched the evolution of things that are now
in the AI world. How important is it for people to add AI into their life whether it's their business or their personal life? - I think it's really important because ironically, I invest in tech as a profession,
but in my personal life, I can be a bit of a lot of it in the sense that I'm a little bit risk averse to the change. I have an iPhone 13, it works just fine. I need to about change it because nobody, no Uber drivers have the right adapter.
So it's stuff like that, we're like, but my phone works just fine for what I do. I think AI is different. I think it's that not everyone has to be like this super embracing of it, but I mean,
even personally already, the fact that ChatGBT is running commercials just for the tab of ChatGBT Health
tells you how powerful they think this could be.
So if you need a more selfish reason than that, I doubt there is one, but I don't think you have to be
Understanding how LLMs work at a deep level,
but I think if you don't play with these things a little start to train, watch a little power of it, it'll just, you'll just feel like you woke up one day and you live in a world you don't even recognize, because it's so incremental,
but incremental every day that adds up to just a tight away behind this little wave. Let's talk about the charity side of the podcast. Why do you think it's important for brands to consider to have a trading opponent
so they're brand for their employees, customers, clients, vendors, et cetera to see? - Yeah, I mean, I think the days of, they're not taking political stands or what you stand for or what your give back is.
“I think people demand more from their brands”
and there's all the legacy examples of cool companies like a Patagonia, who's the first to show you. Here is actually how your sheep started out and where we did this and the supply chain. So I'm very much into that side of things
so I love that kind of supply chain transparency and different things like that. But I think, you know how it is, just kind of culture 101, like a job is not enough for most people anymore.
When you see unemployment rates not even here, but you go to places like China and it can be as high as 20%. It's because they're just not engaged. They want more than just a paycheck
and to work, you know, that what is it? Nine to nine, six, nine to nine, six days a week. You can't do that unless you're connected and you want your product or your brand or you believe in what you're doing.
So I think first it's always the internal
bringing along people who are mission driven. I'm a big triple bottom line guy right? Do well by doing good or like people plan it profits, whatever, colloquialism you want to use. I just think it's so important because it doesn't matter,
it's like working out. It doesn't matter whether you're doing it for like vanity reasons or just general health that all goes toward the greater good. And it chances are if you connect it generally,
your product or company will do better and you'll have better culture and you'll have more evangelism among your customers. So it helps everything. Would you like to have children?
I do. I'm sure my wife will listen to this 'cause she knows I was coming over. So that is on the road map and the not too distant future. Start working on in 2020, six.
So there's only one question that's a repeat question on every single episode and of hundreds of episodes
that have actually never gotten the same answer once.
We've gotten the same math, but never the same answer. You build them M3, 13 ventures, you invest in things, privately, you and your wife invest in things and all of a sudden billions of billions of dollars happen.
But hopefully with the new age of technology and AI, you last another hundred years, due to the medical field. At some point, unfortunately, or any past the way.
What percentage of those billions of future dollars do you leave to those future children? (sighs) I think percentage is a little hard 'cause that depends on my number, right?
“I think I usually thought about it in terms of absolute,”
but then again, absolute could change because who knows if the value of the dollar money and stock changes? I think, directionally, if this is too vague, you can call me on it, I'll be more specific.
I wanna give them just enough that they should be able to do whatever they want and pursue their passions and dreams and not so much that any of it's a free ride. And I think it is such a fine line
and we were talking with one of your previous guests about YPO and organizations like that that I've been in for 17 years. One of the most talked about topics is, how do I raise good kids that are not spoiled,
but also don't struggle too much, right? And I think I would do it just like how I was raised. I was not wealthy by like LA Miami standards at all. I was better off than most of my friends and my parents just did a really good job
of instilling value, meaning it's not like they didn't get me something for fun, but a lot of times they'd be, if I can get you those shoes and that'll make you play better or feel better or this trainer or something that actually enhances your life,
always found money for that, which is amazing.
A lot of what I just called the gluttonous things, they weren't about and at least now I'm not about because I do think there's something to be said for just that feeling of like, like I'm so big on value right, my wife will tell you,
we flew business class here coming yesterday 'cause JetBlue did this new live-ed seat, we flew to Palm Beach on JetBlue. I'd say in the US I fly business about 10% of the time. No judgment for someone else who does,
but it doesn't bring me some crazy amount of joy or some dopamine hit. And in general, I mean, come on, like if I'm flying from Miami to Atlanta, what could possibly happen, right?
I mean, at the best they give me warm food, probably not even warm food, the seats are largely better. All I'm gonna do is open my laptop and work, why would I do it?
I don't describe any value to it,
“so I think I've always been one of those people”
where, for better and worse, I could spend a big amount of money, not blink twice, and then I will argue with someone over $12, and people look, what do you, it's $12, I'm like it's the point,
you know that was in $12. And I think that's mostly a good quality
It can be a bad one.
So I think I just want my kids to really understand
the value of it, whatever it ends up being. So as you go into 2026, and there's this multitude of companies, options, investments, and just recently got married, has it changed your perception of what you want to invest into,
or has the general thesis been the same?
“- I think the general thesis has been a little bit the same”
in that, as I said, I want to start to diversify my portfolio, but I don't plan to become a real estate expert tomorrow. I don't think from what I know, it's rocket science has figured it out, but rather than me pretending like I've learned real estate, I will ask our team and our family office guys
to start to partner with people who we really respect
in the real estate area, dip our toe in,
learn it and go from there. Having said that, I think there are areas I know really well, consumer and tech that I'll keep doing personally and through M13. But I think the interesting part is,
since I have started doing some investing with my wife, she has really good instincts, she actually has an insane amount of like TikTok deal flow, or she has a podcast called HotSmart Rich, it's blown up so she actually sees really great deals really early. So the question when I'm saying to her now is,
she's like, this looks good, I'm like it does, but what's it doing? Do you think this can be a hundred extra turn? Or do you think this can be a really risk-protected three extra turn? No one doesn't want three acts, if you feel like there's a lot less risk.
Of course, by nature of it, it shouldn't be, but maybe you see something that makes you feel like the whole key is the asymmetric risk reward. And then occasionally do other things where you're like, I don't know about this, but I love the founder,
they have some interesting other things,
“and I think it will kind of help build my platform in the space, right?”
So I always, I've been saying,
and we're like, is this like, a company really believe in? Is this kind of a dot org check? Is this somewhere in between? So I think you just really have to know what categories you're putting in and not have too many of them,
like relationship checks, slip in, or this could be good, and there could be some partnership down the line, right? Yeah. All right, where could people find you, find the social, find if they want to apply to get an investment?
Yeah, apparently, as I said, based on emails and everything else, it's really easy to find to be online. There is only one Courtney Reams, so if you can spell it, you can find me,
“it's just my name at Instagram, Courtney Reams,”
same on LinkedIn, and my email for m13 is just [email protected]. That's so passing. All right, guys, as I mentioned before, we started this podcast. It might not just be for you, but this might be,
I have five months from now, you're sitting in a meeting, and like, oh, my friend has a tech company that wants to apply, or my friend's building something just wants to learn and listen to Courtney, or go find him on social, go find his wife,
and check out her cool new podcast. Like, you're gonna find things that are not just for you, could be people from your past, present, and future. Again, we grew up thinking it's rude to talk about money. We need episodes like this, we can have blunt,
clear cut discussions. I'm gonna try to bring Courtney back here later on this year, come find him to get him back in the podcast, so I'm gonna talk to more, 'cause I have so many questions.
I've been watching his career for years, and has been very exciting to see as he's evolved and the company's the name, best into him and some of the exits that have happened. And so I have a lot more questions for him.
Check him out on social media, check out these companies, and I appreciate you guys, see you guys next Monday here at TheMoneyMundays.com. (upbeat music)
