Justin Bieber's Feud with Usher, Savannah Guthrie's Return Strategy, and JFK Jr.'s Dark Side

Another stacked and packed show for you today we are going to begin with none other than

“celebrity reporter, extraordinaire, rob, shooter, settle in with your beverage of choice”

because we are going to go deep and dirty about the cancellation of the entire season of the Bachelor at who knew what when, about Taylor Frankie Paul's domestic violence, assaults, arrest, video, what this all tells us about what really goes on in the creation, production and promotion of reality television, and again, why the nerve exists because you're not going to see conversations like this anywhere else.

The mainstream media industrial complex has way too much writing on this shit. We are here to burn it all down then we're going to talk about Justin Bieber getting into

“it with usher a fight they had on Oscar night.”

That story has just come to light and robin our going to talk about the cause of it. And again, all the people who probably knew what was going on and the human carnage caused by everyone looking the other way because of money and fame and power and in with that comes the latest news on the maneuverings over at the today show and Savannah Guthrie's planned return then we've got trouble maker feedback and the nerves, we're going to recap a

bit of love story, John F. Kennedy, Jr. and Carolyn Besett episode eight, but what that the bulk of that segments really going to be is the true stuff that Ryan Murphy for whatever

“reason isn't really interested in telling us okay luckily I know where all the bodies are”

buried and you know not for nothing I've set it before put me in a fucking writer's room. This this show is a cultural phenomenon and if they had gone with the real shit the real stuff they would have had material for at least three seasons of this thing at least people would have made so much more money and you know as we're going to prove to you guys that's all these people in the industry care about okay are you ready, are you ready, let's go.

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if you haven't already go and pre order Rob's new book it's a novel it's fun it's juicy it's called it started with a whisper it's out on April 14th but you guys we have all got to pre order it I have pre ordered mine because those sales help get a book on the best seller list and we want Rob on that New York Times best seller list representing for troublemakers everywhere Rob welcome back

Thank you so much on the hobbies and represent more of your hair looks amazing did you

liken it up a little bit no I just got out the shower like half an hour ago tell you sexy beast okay we have to talk first I want to talk about the bachelor at getting yanked by ABC

Hulu this is a this is a stew that everybody's involved in here the bachelor at who you know

“the video started going viral again last week of her assaulting her then boyfriend with her small”

child in the room and allegedly that small child getting hit by a heavy metal stool one of three that we saw her fling at this guy ABC knew they cast her casted her as the bachelor at anyway and now they're acting so shocked and they've got to pull it and you know I mean it's talked to

me to tell the troublemakers basically how the levels the levels up in organization like Disney

a casting like this goes in a franchise like that yeah it's it's it's guys right to the top they all knew they all approved her they even humiliated people who worked for ABC including Laura Spencer on GMA and Kelly Ripper on her show the day before they cancelled she did publicity that's right ABC show us so they were forging her head in fact mindset has told me the day that she was doing press 24 hours before she was cancelled they were giddy at ABC they thought

they were gonna get the biggest ratings maybe in the bachelor history or at least in the last decade the numbers of slow yeah going down and down and down on the show we saw a Mormon wife a different Mormon wife on dancing with the stars another then he meets the show and the ratings went up currently now on Broadway in Chicago that lady is now the leader of the show and it's breaking box office records Chicago has been on Broadway for twenty nine years and last week they grossed

the highest number they had ever grossed so there's something about these Mormon wife so I don't know what it is Rob let's just say what it is is that they all fuck each other's husbands in

“a practice that they call soft swinging that's why that and exactly why ABC shows this woman”

Taylor Frankie Paul with this like incredibly cumbersome name that you're like is it a woman is it a man I don't know she's beating up her spouse regardless like they knew the legal departments at Disney ABC Hulu they do background checks on these people do you have do you have a rap sheet what's wrong you know and so they knew they they put her in there anyway and then because this this video went viral it's not like they hadn't seen it this video has been in the

ecosystem for two years they were like oh god we have like our moral like we're shocked we're clutching our pearls like we could possibly air this now that's exactly what the response was this

is an old video in the season debut the very first Mormon wife she gets arrested on camera

“yeah so you did not need to be Sherlock Holmes to know who she was this isn't a book in the”

system this is why they hired her it's a feature it's a feature it's a feature it wanted her they wanted the drama they wanted the messiness I'm told that from people on the show that it was a really messy season that this was this was not something that she just put at the door no they encouraged her to be this person and so now they they they are shocked they are a poll they have fired her what I'm told is going on is it wasn't just the video that went viral they were

almost excited about that it was advertisers they'd had a huge advertiser dropout and more advertisers were going to follow suit and when she started messing with money at ABC or any other network that's when they make a really hard maybe not so hard but they make a decision and so this was about money they didn't care that she's messy they didn't care that the public was upset they really were looking forward to popping champagne on on Sunday and arguably having the highest ratings

they've had in a while now there was some internal pushback ABC ABC news still fancies themselves as kind of fancy they're not bravo they're not this this sloppy behavior and so this is what networks all networks are going through now for a long time the today show didn't want the real housewives on and it's part of the same company it's all the universe on and so these shows now are trying to figure out how do we work together what is what is good for the goose is that good

for the gander hide us all this fit together it's a little bit more complicated than just saying

they should never have cast it because they won't hit they won't be shows what I'm going to

push back on you right there that they never should have cast or it's not even the video of her rest

of her throwing three metal chairs at her spouse or her then boyfriend of kicking him hitting him

putting him in a choke hold of one of those metal chairs he alleges hitting their very small her small child who was in the living room at the time at the end of that video you hear that child crying and he says you your your daughters right there you're you're hurting her this to me is so upsetting it's not just another entertainment story where the people involved are kind of gross or sad this is this is everything you say they knew at ABC and they don't care that a small

child or more than one child is in danger with this woman she's raiding so so nobody gives us there's like a level of a morality that can still shock me like what's am I the outlier are we all here

“at the nerve the outliers I feel sometimes we might be worried that that's how it's so grateful”

with I do to her it's a cesspool it really is Hollywood show business television all these people that are wholly of them that let's remember Matt Lauer was accused of a newly raping an assistant in Russia while he was not and it and violently so in a way that would be the most painful to her and also accused of having a quote unquote rape button on the bottom of his desk that was hidden from view so that whenever a woman walked in he could lock them in and she would have nowhere to go

somebody had to install that and you know what it's like if you work a nine to five job and I did it all the time you have to file an expense report which you have to itemize so somebody very high up at NBC signed off on that Lauer's little remote button yeah yeah that these networks who for a long time have tried to fula's have posh they are how how moral high grand they are

“had their views or the viewers that we should all buy into I think once an over and over again”

that they have proven themselves wrong and this bachelor Ed is just another priming sample that they are no better than fact they are worse yeah superkits they are absolute hypocrites here now this video these you know I think she taped 12 15 episodes they're involved at ABC there's a chance that they could see lighter at some point they got to figure out what they want to do next then also to the franchise what are they going to do with this franchise my sources tell me

that definitely definitely this season has gone but moving forward what are they going to do they've delayed the start of the new bachelor then they're going down we don't believe any more

it never was but we used to believe at least I did foolishly that it was a love story that

this was about falling in love this was about finding your perfect partner who doesn't want to do that it's hard dating and if ABC could make it a little easier for everybody what a wonderful thing it's all alive this is just a show about drama about exploiting people about exploiting

“the viewers it's survivor with sex that's what it is that is what it is so let's talk about TLC”

which for many many many years had the dugher family as a lynch kind of their network in their reality TV programming and you know they were like a super Christian like they're like that that that strain of Christianity that believes in like having as many as many kids as a woman could pump out without dying so like it was a rat that their show was called 19 kids in counting at Josh Dugger went to prison for pedophilia I believe you sexually abused a relative I believe

I have that right yeah and now there is a new arrest involving Joseph Dugger and Kendra Dugger also involving at least I believe the the direct charge against Joseph involves sexual abuse of a child as well what are you hearing and what what do these arrests these investigations these stories the public's outrage do they move the needle at all in terms of how reality television

conducts itself I have to hope the answer is yes sometimes I think that we're fighting a battle

here that nobody else cares about but they they do care about money and this is going to really hit the bottom line over there just a little background here when the Duggers were on television they they got millions of viewers and I went to interview them and I spoke to TLC they'd see me on different shows so they're asking me they invited me to come and interview the Duggers we went to Bob's burger in Rockefeller's sentence when was this Rob about 10 years ago

okay there but before they allowed me to meet the Dugger family I had to promise not to swear

did they do when they say that to you do you say it please enumerate explain that I would back then I was kind of a shy kid and I wanted to talk to celebrities back then I wanted to break into this business I was a publicist I wasn't a reporter so I felt like I had a real sort of like chip on my shoulder or people didn't take me seriously and so I remember like the PR department at TLC really really protecting the overly protecting this family who now clearly

we needed to be protected from but what my reporting tells me is that people knew when when you take reality shows and this is true about trying to cameras are on 24/7 it's really really easy to turn up on that a day show and be phony for two minutes or five minutes it's really easy

“to to be a phony guest on a podcast when you're only on for for four or five minutes that's what”

so it's so exceptional about your show you're up for half an hour your guests are it's a real it's a real conversation it's real time it's the girl and this is just 30 minutes you imagine if you and me more we're doing this 24 hours a day it would be great but 24 you get to really know each other and so I'm told now what there was stuff there was stuff that happened there was stuff that was said what's on that tape I don't really I'm not that

interested in seeing the the polished season of the bachelor's I want to see all the outtakes a 100% you want to know what what a production saw what the editing base saw what was flown

through legal how do we bury this how do we bury that you know that's that's just amazing

to me and that goes to the rank hypocrisy and disgustingness of so much of reality TV they come to you and say the horrible things they said to you oh don't swear and this is this is part of the reason I love profanity they're saying don't you dare that probably take the Lord's name in vain would get you to go in a hell they've got at least one child molester in that child army at least one probably two maybe more by the way wonder where those kids picked that up you know what I'm

saying and but God forbid Rob that you show up as a gay man you know speaking your truth as you were it was a weird hour and a half to hours I spent with them that the dad was with everything about it was really really often now I know why these are just really the the lowest of the low the crimes that they have been accused of are absolutely shocking it hasn't happened

“once this is the second son this is the second son in this family and I think that corporate”

relations company broadcast networks now have to really ask very hard these questions let me be honest that I know people who have done reality shows I've lived in New York you get to know the housewives and they are funny so they're a bit rude and obnoxious and you know they think

they they always think they're on TV when they're not they could take it down and not but they've

all had to get through psychological tests they have they have psychiatrists towards people way with those psychiatrists for the dugers way well also Rob though the thing is with the psychologists they're not always there to help the cast members they're there to like get in on their on their sore spots their their most traumatic moments to activate them to behave badly they they get it it's it's like sleeping with the enemy that's what that's for yeah yeah you

you need if you're in reality TV and you think you need to unveil yourselves of the services of the mental health professional go outside the set do not trust anybody production brings in right right well I am I worked with Tyra Banks about 20 years ago when she was doing top model and that's what the psychologist did they came in not to check that the ladies were prepared for this process a really intensive process they were there almost a spies almost as investigators

“to find out what is your source but what is the button we can press I just remember that there”

was one young model who was abused and her mother was the abuser and Tyra always asked her about

no mother her mother your relationship with your mother I want to be your mother no just this to get them to explore it now you're big question more in the before we jumped into the segment was well things change and they did change with really really trashy Jerry spring good type television on the Jenny Jones show when somebody was killed it got to that point where somebody on the Jenny Jones show in the 90s these daytime talk shows that's when Oprah made her turn to

actually a more a movie povage as Jerry spring was she was she was down in the gutter with the

“rest of them but the thing that concerns me Rob is that that that stuff has already happened”

people have died on reality shows people have killed themselves people have slid into alcoholism drug addiction a housewife on Atlanta just lost a son to drug addiction and he was a major part of her storyline and I'm telling you those reality TV producers in Andy Cohen himself fucking loved it okay Andy Cohen was on one of those reunions going wow that was really brave you really helped a lot of people know she didn't she exploited her son and had his drug addiction as her storyline and he died

of it and I'm not blaming anybody but I am I am in terms of the reality TV ecosystem and the

human carnage is just the cost of doing business yeah it's the cost of doing business that is built into the system that is built into to the model until it isn't they did not want to cancel

“this bachelor it once again after a video was exposed after conversation started again they pushed”

her out she went on good morning America and Kelly and Mark and then they're like oh oh they viewers they put her on the freaking Oscars red carpet they put this shit this piece of shit on the Oscars red carpet who doesn't love to see a child abuser just my opinion on the red carpet at the Oscars right when no one's watching they wouldn't they scream like what happened to the ratings this is what happened Kelly Kelly and Mark they she's on record she's not a fan of this show

she does not like the way this show has the bachelor at the bachelor at and so she doesn't often have the bachelor at on whenever ABC roll out a celebrity one of their prime times shows they have the view they have Kelly they have talent they have shows in their stable that you can pop them on and these show sometimes just exist to promote the prime time right Kelly to have Taylor on and to not ask her any questions and now we've got that video where Kelly's actually sort of

defending her and asking her are you okay and has this been a very difficult week for you it's you know yeah those that line of questions where it's like the victim like the perpetrator is the victim you know and it's so sick because it wins its way into the culture we live in a culture now where it's like almost anybody can commit any crime but as long as you can find the trauma in their life that explains it that justifies it let's talk about how hard this has been for you and I

would die for Chris Harrison who ABC fired from the bachelor for what did you have in a fair something it was like consenting adults they fired him for that and how and Kelly could have seen that one coming the guys surrounded by young women 24/7 this is his show he's got a lot of power they fired him but they were ready to like pull the trigger on this piece of shit with our season of the bachelor at speaking of more abuse and more disgustingness in the culture just in Bieber

and usher apparently got into a fight on Oscar night and we're seeing this daily mail headline up here the quote he just didn't protect him inside or reveal the real reason just in Bieber and usher's

“secret feud hit boiling point at Oscars published on March 21 2020 26 the quote usher brought”

Justin into that world when he was just a kid the insider explains Justin trusted usher to look out for him and now he feels like that did not happen what do you hear yeah Justin he's right here I worked with him so I was around this monster but the reason Justin was hanging with did it was because of usher usher introduced introduced Justin Bieber was usher's find correct he found him on YouTube he found him as a teenager he was strumming a guitar on the internet trying to

become a star and usher so little kid right he was like 11 maybe it was it was it was it was a baby and he had nobody protecting him but his family who had had their issues too they thought that usher would take him under his wing and usher has done a pretty good job of staying away from some

of the really dirty darkness of the music business and so as mentors go usher at first sight

seems like a really really good person but that was not the truth one of the first people the usher introduced Justin to was did he as a teenager he was going to do these parties he was spending the night at did is he was hanging out there for weeks and so at the time Justin I think just thought

with his own mental health issues and he's furious about it nobody protected him and you know in

life often it's not your responsibility to do that but if you take somebody under your wing if you

“want to be their mentor you have to do it and so this has been bubbling up for a while in fact”

sources tell me that this this was going to explode it just so happened they were in the same place just things removed himself from from the music business I surprised to see him at the party in fact if he wasn't married to to haily who really enjoys the spotlight I don't think he would have gone to this party I think he went because his wife wanted to be there but one of the people he bumped into was usher and he let him have it and I'm told us she had had no response how do you

response just then I'm I'm team just in all the way I'm team Justin all the way to you know usher gave a very interesting interview years ago to Howard Stern you can still find it online he also

repeated this in Rolling Stone that he I forget which came first but that he as a kid was living with

diddy his mother sent him to live with diddy as a teenager and he saw all manner of crazy shit and he said he would walk into rooms and there would be full blown or geez going on and he was a teenager obviously this somehow was normalized within him I would bet I I have no evidence just my supposition usher may have been interfered with as a young man that guy diddy is a monster and you know I wish that Justin would just take the money he got from selling his catalog and just

go live a quiet life somewhere this is this is not it's not a healthy scene for him on any level on any level that's the only chance of happiness Justin has he has profound mental health issues I I've interviewed you not many times and he he he's straddle she can really see him straddle I

“remember I was once in a morning show and he was backstage going on to perform and I was there doing”

celebrity news you're not allowed to say gossip on those shows it's got to be celebrity news I know they put the bachelor right out I know right are they bring the bachelor right out hey was the last time you hit your kid I just did what was it was in the green room with me strumming on a guitar and he looked like a little sparrow he looked like a little lost boy he broke my heart and then he went out and stage he was great but he just looked like he didn't want

he didn't realize that being a musician was also going to be this this whirlwind and he doesn't have to be but I it doesn't have to be but children really have no place in this world they they really should not be anywhere near it now speaking of Chapel Roan made headlines over the weekend because as it turned out Jude law has an 11 year old daughter Jude law who I love I love him I've

“always loved him but you know you get within 50 feet of that guy he's going to get you pregnant”

he's got kids everywhere so he's gotten 11 year old who lives in Brazil with her mother and stepfather who is a soccer star they are Chapel Roan was on tour there the little girl is in the hotel restaurant with her mother Chapel Roan comes down to have breakfast the little girl just makes doesn't just a walk by Chapel's table just to make sure it's her she's a real fan and Chapel Roan's goons like went after this kid and we're like get a wet you know and the girl wound up crying

the whole Chapel Roan took like a day to address this which means you know it went down the way the child described we'll take a quick little look at Chapel's explanation and then we'll get into it I did not ask the security guard to go up and talk to this mother and child I did not they did not I call up to me what do you make of that yeah yeah no no no no no no no no no no no no yeah it's really trickiest and it because you know maybe she didn't say

to her security guard in that second go over and push that little girl a little bit

she shoot them a look she shoot them a look they could kill they've had conversations I've worked with big celebrities and they all have conversations with the star they work with about the access to fans and a lot of the decent stars know very well that if no one's a threat to me physically and they want to come over and say hello let them and if somebody wants to come over and take a selfie maybe not today I mean they literally talk about this stuff

in the cars I've been in these cars I've been in these rooms so Chapel has clearly set a bar with her security yes yes what do you can come yes no body and this poor little girl 11 years old was in a partial hotel a partial restaurant peeked around the corner saw a star she she liked she didn't do anything inappropriate and then the security guards snapped and I think the problem

bank on this kid being the the child of someone who's very famous very powerful her step

father's very famous in Brazil very powerful I just would like to say this if you ever see a little kid light up when they encounter someone who's famous who they idolize it is the sweetest

“of your worst thing and you just shit all over that because you need to feel important and make a”

child cry and the other thing you're saying to about those parameters that celebrity set you know in terms of if a fan approaches how they'll engage that's a moment that that fan will remember forever you the celebrity will probably one of a million that come up to you and you won't recount it but that is something that person will carry with them probably forever and why not make it pleasant for the people who are putting money in your pocket and fame in your otherwise

empty black heart that will never be filled and my final thought for chapel before we get to our

last item if you don't want attention don't go down to the hotel restaurant and have a meal with your security retina order rooms are a great full bitch okay justice for Jude laws little girl okay now our last our last item which we wanted to get to last week but we didn't have time holda is catching some shit for the timing of her joy when a one retreat she's still in that chair on today as Savannah lead batter item on page six in yesterday's post is planning actively

with NBC and today show execs her return what do you know about our favorite perver of joy and missing mothers she wasn't canceling this retreat she had been working on this retreat she's been working on

this app for this joyiness new chapter of her life for years in fact that's the real reason

she left the today she said it was for the kids but as we go she's popped back and so it was to launch this app I think she's deeply disappointed she thought it was going to be goop and extended up being Megan Markle nobody cares about 100 and so she's did this retreat in Arizona tickets were sold out before Nancy Geffrey disappeared but she yeah I don't know if they were sold out Rob I mean Marlene tried to just get on the wait list for when they were going to put them on

sale and then Marlene is email landed in their inbox and then Marlene was told hours later it was sold out to yeah good point I'll take it I'll take it and so holda was not canceling this this is her passion now this is what she she wants to do but as far as coming back to the today show it's really interesting because during the Olympics and during this awful story this this really horrific story that we've all been talking about the today shows ratings went through the roof they're

“not high anymore in fact last week GMA got 80 thousand oh that close now so that's why I think”

Savannah's going to be coming back shortly because the bump they got from this horrific story and the Olympics it's starting to weigh now and so I think Savannah's going to be coming back sooner than later because of ratings which is how we started today I was just going to say that Rob it's awful circle where there is no tragedy too unspeakable including the abduction of this 84 year old sickly old woman from her own bed in the dead of night she remains missing as we're talking

now we are in today 51 and this is what the the real conversation behind closed doors and in public they're going to say we're a family we're wearing our yellow ribbons behind closed doors it's war gaming how we get Savannah back what day she comes back for how many minutes in what time slot who's talking to her where we get that ratings bump where we most fatally wound GMA yeah that's

“that's what they care about that's it that's it and that's all mother got three best of luck to you”

but that's all they give us shit about yeah absolutely right I'm even told they're talking about doing the countdown Savannah back in four days three days two days what would be the logo that would go behind that countdown clock drop would it be blood droplets would it be like let's be as cool as she's they are because this is Goulash you're it's not the fucking Olympics it's a woman who's mother is still missing who is in agony they are so goulash I can't believe missing the whole point

I want to count down to the day that we find Nancy yes she's still missing and that's why Hoda was so tone deaf she's still out there she could be still in Arizona it's just so good what is having a five star retreat around the concept of joy in Arizona I don't even think a

it's a drag Rob we love you I couldn't love you more I couldn't love you more but today's

“conversation just I mean above and beyond I I just I love you so much and we eagerly await the”

release of your book which we're doing a book club with you on pub day my friend April 20 which

also happens to be the nerves first birthday the gods are smiling upon the nerve and your book

see you soon my friend okay you're the best by every like wise and that's it with Rob we will be back we've got a neppo baby and and the mother of this neppo baby we've not yet covered on the nerve and I've got a fair amount to say and and she will be recurring this month because of a movie she's got coming out and the New Yorker just pand it and you know in the New Yorker pan something by a pet it's even worse than they're willing to tell you plus we've got trouble maker feedback and our love story

“recap with additional materials that are the true story we are back in a minute do you know that”

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check out that's 25% off when you use code marine at cowboy colostrum dot com slash marine we are back before we get to trouble maker email we get a lot of pushback in the culture from neppo babies

who are basically like look what else am I supposed to do my mother's famous my father's famous

their both famous I mean I'm just supposed to be a DJ or just take a look at Brooklyn Beckham look at the failure the multi-pronged failure that is Brooklyn Beckham I'm going to tell any neppo baby who's wondering why there's so much animus against you guys this is exhibit A this is Sophia Copeland's daughter Romy she's a teenager I believe she might be close to 18 now now her father is also semi-famous he's in a very mediocre indie band all band called phoenix all their songs sound the same they all sound

the same but they're French so Sophia has yet another mediocre movie out it's a documentary about

“Marc Jacobs they've been friends forever that's how you know it's not going to be any good I will have”

a lot to say about this in a later nerve the new yorker just pand it and you know when the new yorker attacks someone who is supposed to be untouchably cool in the culture it's worse than they are willing to admit I've got a lot of problems I just think Sophia Copeland is extremely overrated and we'll we'll get into why much later anyway this is her daughter who was responding allegedly to a TikTok user about what it is to be quote unquote written by Sophia I guess because she's a Sophia

creation listen to this girl in her very you know this is like I'm so rich I'm so privileged I'm so bored you guys have no idea what it's like to be me I'm gonna give you a little let's do it together it will talk about it on the other side here we go let's clear this up she's literally written by Sophia Copeland yes I was burned by Sophia Copeland is my story written by Sophia Copeland let's not put that into the universe because what are the Sophia Copeland girls do they themselves from the

ceiling okay also I was raised primarily by many different women in their 20s you could ask any of my friends a lot of my moms were also Sophia my mom but also mostly like just random girls in

of truth in that and it's ugly it's really ugly while the mainstream media all magazine just

“Sophia on the cover gives this woman all kinds of plot it's herself another netbo baby it's her father”

who's the brilliant director her father Francis Ford Copeland who is the brilliant writer director this girl by the way this girl went viral like in 2023 for bitching online that her father she stole her father's credit card and it got denied when she tried to book a helicopter to take her from New York to like Maryland revise versa she was much younger obviously then she's there she's referring to her mother by her full name which I find very weird she's invoking suicide in a very flip way

which I find very disturbing I don't like that and then she's basically saying my mother didn't

raise me I was actually raised by a bunch of random nannies like women in their 20s that rings true

“random women in their 20s she said who gave me weed when I was 11 that rings true don't don't”

envy these kids do not it's also fucked up you know it's like there's this shiny version the mainstream media wants you oh every girl wants to be Sophia Copeland no they don't if you're a woman who would like to have as part of your package like an actual personality and a point of view you don't want to be Sophia Copeland okay do you have an energy level that exceeds like two you know hi a marine og listener here I really wanted to write to you about love story today but today don't

worry we've got we've got two more segments at least coming um this troublemaker saw a commercial for an older adult adult product um it was the 61 year old female ping-pong player playing against

“some young guy and when they showed the guy at the end he looked exactly like timetee chamalama ding dong”

I was dying timis never gonna live this down from troublemaker Tracy and Illinois and you can use my name

thanks Tracy hi a marine um this troublemaker loves the minis on Saturdays we love doing them we're so happy you guys respond to them two Saturdays mini we heard from a lot of you about our dissection of uh sex in the city Sarah Jessica Parker who dated John Jr maybe had one date with him maybe it sounds like she's turned it into six months maybe Caroline beset Kennedy Michael Bergen and the rest it shows even more the pathology that they all share question uh how is troubles

tutelage going with Uber detective Teddy Teddy like many perfectionists can't figure out why this four month old puppy just can't get with it immediately you know Teddy's like um leaps and vows ahead of you in terms of investigative skills and detection um and you know the the puppies just kind of like teach me your ways teach me your ways and Teddy will not even acknowledge him dear marine loved the Oscars live stream thank you Teddy Van Halen looked dashing yes he did

the co-host where everything is this something you can do for the mechala we're thinking about it we are thinking about it um regarding the arrest of Justin Timberlake now that we see the footage this trouble maker Jackie oh Jackie you've written before she writes uh I loved so did we how the cup had no idea who he was and why he would be on a tour because it goes to how JT is not as relevant as he thinks he is what I found appalling as discussed on yesterday's nerve was his friend slash

employee who came back to fetch him first of all because she was like oh my god my hair's not good

she was on camera doesn't matter if it's a cops body cam you know that's recording to make sure like god forbid something goes sideways everyone can see you know that's you you know there's a grim reason that body cameras there but she's like my hair my hair welcome to summers out east in the amtons uh why would the police care what her hair looks like second I didn't catch this part trouble maker Jackie what was up with her telling them that she owns a spa was this some rich person

flex we she trying to bribe him to police and the hamptons care about facials and micro-derma abrasion no they do not okay they are on the side of root 27 clocking drunk drivers and speeders with their radar okay this trouble maker from the jersey short does not get it the icing on the cake

were not giving into her entitled as I miss this part too she started bringing up his songs my

understanding says Jackie was that bye-bye-bye came out before the cop was born in fairness Jackie

“I believe bye-bye-bye was in sink number and you know we really have to go to justified”

Justin's debut solo album I believe produced by the neptunes uh for you know the real if you're going to talk about the Justin canon now that arrest is it is also in the uh the Justin canon um thank you Jackie keep your feedback coming email me at worrying at devilmakermedia.com or dma on instagram at moring calian writer or at the nerve show remember to subscribe to the nerve sub stack that is our weekly email go over to the nerve show.com you will see a prompt

would you like our sub stack in your inbox every Friday after the last full nerve of the week put your email address in and there you go it just shows up nothing more required coming up

“episode eight eight of nine in Ryan Murphy's love story, Sean of Kennedy Jr and Carolin Besett”

there's Ryan's version and then there's the nerves version which is the true version it's the better one it's the more fucked up compelling dark and unthinkable one and that's where we all live we will see you in a minute trouble makers our banks caching your interest checks while you are buried in debt pds debt can help pds debt has freed hundreds of thousands of people from credit card

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needed they have gotten a plus from the better business bureau and a nearly five star rating on trust pilot with thousands of real success stories every month you delay costs you more so don't wait another month take back control in 30 seconds get your free personalized assessment and the best options for you at pds debt.com slash nerve that's pds dot com slash nerve we are back now for one of our favorite weekly discussions it's time to examine Ryan Murphy's love story

John of Kennedy Jr and Carolin Besett and when I tell you I am about to I'm just going to say this I saw a very good friend of mine over the weekend very smart person very like savvy sophisticated lifelong New Yorker like me obsessed with Ryan Murphy's love story told told me with a straight face that she thought everything she's been watching was actually true and the way it went down and this is why here at the nerve we are taking this thing apart week after week because it is a very

dangerous thing this is more Kennedy myth making and you know someone else was asking me why I thought that Jack Schlossberg was way up in the polls in New York in this run for a congressional seat

this is a 33 year old man who has never had a job lives off of four trust funds and has successfully

“scrub most of social media very unhinged behaviors and I said I think it's the show and I think that”

like the Kennedy myth is like getting another breath and we at the nerve and ask not exist to extinguish that breath okay episode eight exit strategy we're going to show the open and we are showing it in part because you know I said at the very beginning that I find the title sequence for this show extremely morbid very foolish they died very violently these bodies were shattered and severed and ripped apart and they were flush was forced into metal okay but this opening

sequence has like two hands what would be Johns on the bottom and Carolyn Stainty Lee on the top coming together and in this episode which is like kind it's what they call a bottle episode oldie the two of them are in it they don't leave the apartment it's it's it's one set it's just dialogue between two people it's got almost kind of like a jaunty feel to it and again I find that very foolish like I don't know that they're really taking seriously

be a love story okay this was a tragedy this was a horror show for the ages the union of these two

“we're going to take a look and I'm going to set this up if you're only listening you're going to”

hear a reworking of Mary Ford's single circa 1956 called Smoke Rings it was read on by a guy who goes by granitek but it's all about smoking and the joys of smoking and we see Carolyn laying in very awkward positions around her apartment sitting reclining what have you smoking okay so here we go Carolyn at home dressed in black tie evening wear and off the length black gloves

sitting in the gym and taking off this wedding or text to be a businessman I grown up

displayed awkwardly and very uncomfortable on her kitchen island table

“which no one ever does and then just standing in the kitchen”

varying into space and then her husband comes home so she puts up to her and that's it now what is so strange because I watched this episode in real time on FX and then the next day they put it up on Hulu in the FX version there's a shot of Carolyn lot underneath like she's underneath a glass Japanese coffee table and she looks like a corpse like she's still and what these images are really reflective of now this is late 90s when

this is taking place they're really reflective of heroin chic which was popularized by

first of a photographer named Karen Day who discovered Kate Moss and then Kate Moss went on to

become like a superstar and heroin chic became like the lingua franca of the 90s until her ex-boyfriend's brother Davide Serente died of heroin overdose and Bill Clinton held a press conference in the White House and told the fashion street to cut it the fuck out which they did so this is all very foolish okay and I don't know why they took out the like why not just lean in was that too much was that like a bridge too far okay now we're going

to this episode was sort of gunning for like a who's afraid of Virginia wolf vibe but at least those two characters as portrayed on film by Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton were literate literary sophisticated highly verbal psychologically astute and they were directed by Mike Nichols very psychologically astute himself this is not that this is not that okay John and Carolyn are going to get into an argument about John wanting Carolyn to go back to work

this is this I believe probably passes for the the level of fight that they they probably engaged in in real life but on the back end of this I'm going to tell you about all the things that they were really fighting about in real life okay and they would have made for much better drama and as I said in my daily mail call on the other day it would have gotten this show at least three seasons at least if they had really dug into the real shit that was going on you know they're

kicking themselves over at FX and Hulu and Ryan Murphy's production company this show is a cultural

“phenomenon like no other that's what you get when you play it safe here we go we told me to go”

work for Petra when 30 minutes ago at this dinner party you insisted on hosting that's what we're planning about how difficult it is to find anyone with work experience willing to build something from the ground up and accept to pay cut and you started yelling at me why did not yet John he were literally yelling and I know that because you were seated at the other end of the table all I said was that you had fashion experience and you didn't need money he are

I have PR experience at Calvin Klein isn't that fashion that's fashion Petra has a jewelry line John I'm not a jewelry designer well I'm sorry for insinuating that you have great taste it that qualifies me to buy jewelry not make it they are depicting Carolyn as a non-negotiable personality who is impossible to deal with impossible now that may well have been true but so is John

off late that's not what caused the crash John Kennedy Junior's insulence his entitlement

“his stupidity and frankly his suicidality which they do tip a nod of the hat to in this episode”

are the reasons but as I wrote in my column here are the things they really were fighting about and that would have given them episode upon episode Carolyn's extremely heavy cocaine use John's magazine failing to the point where executives at his set sent him a letter saying they were completely done with him because he didn't know what the fuck he was doing in some and substance his cousin and best friend Anthony Rodswell dying his sister Caroline Kennedy long among his

closest confidence no longer speaking to him Carolyn making abusive phone calls multiple times

a day and in the middle of the night multiple times more than once to his business partner Michael Burman saying John can't stand you nobody can't can stand you it would just be so much better if you left why don't you get the fuck out of our lives the two of them in marriage counseling that was going nowhere Carolyn on medication prescribed by another therapist she was seeing on her own reportedly john's daily marijuana habit Carolyn spilling humiliating details of her

non sex life with him and the both of them cheating on each other all through their relationship

and through the marriage okay and we're going to get to this we're going to get to this because

this is such revisionism and it's really dangerous john Kennedy Jr depicted here as like a nice guy just a nice guy trying to make his marriage work trying to make his magazine work here's something john wrote in George as George was failing he had two cousins who were caught up in very public scandals one Joseph P Kennedy who as written about an ask not had previously left a beautiful teenage girl named Pam Kelly paralyzed for life when he recklessly drove a Jeep

got away with it this current scandal he was in he was running for office and it was a real problem because he got his marriage to a woman named Sheila rush Kennedy annulled by the pope behind her back she had a problem with that Kennedy women aren't supposed to have problems with anything their men do he he also wrote about his cousin Michael Kennedy who had slammed into a tree while playing football on skis with other Kennedy's and the resort had told them to knock it off

it was against the rules and regulations because they were putting the lives of other skiers at that resort in mortal danger did they give a shit no they did not john's editor's letter which was normally written by Steve Gillen whose book I took this from

“America's reluctant prince but it's so poorly written that I believe john pretty much wrote”

this one himself in writing about his cousins in his editor's letter which was also a dorned with a photo again of this exhibitionist who wanted to be part of the media would exploit himself and his own family members including his beloved mother for you know the commercial viability of his magazine but don't don't take pictures of his wife you know you cannot have it both ways his editor's letter I quote of his cousins one left behind an embittered wife interesting choice

embittered wife how a john like it if his wife had the juice to go to the Vatican to call the Pope and say hey I'm just going to sling enough money your way and on the Kennedy give me an enalment my spouse doesn't want one and she doesn't even know I'm talking to you know I'm saying and I say this as someone who's race Catholic so I know I'm talking about

“another in what looked to be a hedge against morality now I think that here gillin”

made a mistake and I think it's something of a Freudian mistake because what john really wrote was mortality what looked to be a hedge against mortality but gillin slipped and wrote morality

mortality fell in love with youth and surrendered his judgment in the process

both became poster boys for bad behavior now that's terrible writing

“poster boys for bad behavior that's a double cliche it's a flat and unoriginal it's that's why”

I think john wrote it now of the cousin Michael Kennedy since deceased who john wrote's fell in love with youth and surrendered his judgment in the process in the process is redundant again terrible writing I'm going to tell the real story of Michael Kennedy

Michael Kennedy now Jerry Oppenheimer wrote about this is in his excellent RFK junior biography

which I devoured when it came out this was also reported in all of the New York tabloids in time magazine in 1997 as part of a piece about these dual scandals divorce Kennedy style and by the Chicago Tribune on April 25 1997 I'm reading from the bulk of the Oppenheimer bio but

“I'll tell you the other salient details of course Michael Kennedy went to rehab”

within hours of the shocking discovery by his then wife Vicki Gifford Kennedy who was the daughter of the famed football player Frank Gifford and the stepdaughter of Kathy Lee Gifford

and Kathy Lee when she was on readjusting Kathy Lee I love Kathy Lee but she would always

she would always make reference to now being related to the Kennedy's she was not it's very Carol Rads will adjacent you know what I mean within hours of the shocking discovery by Vicki Gifford Kennedy of her husband in bed with Marissa I'm gonna leave out her last name she's moved on with her life Marissa in one of the Kennedy's spare bedrooms she found her husband in bed with Marissa who was their teenage babysitter who began babysitting for the family when she was 12 years old

the Chicago Tribune reported that fact now it was long reported that Michael began raping this child there's no other way to put it when she was 14 that age got bumped up to 16 in subsequent reports and or when the law started circling I believe 16 was the age of consent in that state where they lived Kennedy had blamed his drinking for his this is how this was reported back that and when I say

“to you guys like you need to read every word carefully you could never word this report this way”

today for his illicit affair she was a child with the teenage babysitter and family friend and his wife believed him for the time being around that time Michael Kennedy was caught stalker like on a security camera breaking into the garage where the teenager kept her car he left behind a bizarre offering a quote artificial penis so a dildo that he attached to the windshield having turned 18 and become a college freshman Marissa decided to confess all to her parents

who were high powered Kennedy political donors and friends of the family or so they thought her mother was so devastated that the next day she climbed to the roof of the six story boss in building where she and her husband had a chic apartment and threatened to jump Steve Gillen writes in his book that John really believed and I quote that both cousins that they had admirably chosen to pursue their passions the real villain was the media that punished and

judged them for their indiscretions I'm proud to be a member of the punitive judgemental media I'm proud of the nerve for telling the truth about these fucking savage animals John Jr. was no gentleman now we're going to turn to ask not and the part in the book where I write about the kind of guys John Jr. loved to defend publicly the kind of guys the John Kennedy loved to use his fame to defend and rehabilitate in the public square

for raping an 18 year old girl a contestant in the Miss Black America pageant

“as John wrote to Tyson in 1997 most folks think you have considerable talents balanced by”

some faults just like the rest of us I don't know how many of you guys out there identify as rapists John support was more astonishing considering that Tyson's victims testimony had been well publicized during his rape trial in 1992 she recalled that the famous boxer had brought her to his hotel suite and I'm going to stop anyone right there who says well she went up to his hotel room gives you not any license to lay hand on a woman who says no I don't want that

the famous boxer had brought her to his hotel suite saying he needed to make a phone call

she waited in the suite's foyer before she testified he asked her to join him in another room I was terrified she testified I said it's time to leave he said come here this is graphic so I'm just going to warn you he grabbed my arm and stuck his tongue in my mouth he pulled me fast toward him this is the heavyweight champion of the world known as iron Mike Tyson I pulled back he said don't frighten don't frighten relax that

“is very specific language and I believe her people don't normally talk that way that's very”

specific syntax don't frighten and she she says he said it twice I tried to punch him but it was like hitting a wall at the time Tyson was five foot 11 weight over 200 pounds and was the most fearsome heavyweight boxer in the world his teenage victim was five foot three and 100 and eight pounds the next thing I knew he slammed me on the bed she testified he put his hand in my vagina he jammed his fingers in me really hard I said out please stop you're hurting me

my eyes were filling up with tears and he started laughing like it was a game Tyson forcibly performed oral sex on her and then she said he raped her it felt like someone was ripping me apart she testified and when he was done he called her a baby a cry baby Tyson's prison sentence at the end of the 1992 trial was followed by another in 1998 for assaulting

two men John made a show of visiting Tyson at the Rockville detention center in Maryland and compared Tyson's troubled reputation to that of his own father I mean the world knew the half of it about his father like a fraction whose legacy was becoming solid by multiple reports of his own womanizing I mean again in that letter to Mike Tyson John said that his father's moral failings

“only showed how quote human he was that's why John wrote 35 years after his death my father still”

sells books many series magazines etc that's the important stuff right as discussed with Rob he sympathized with me in some way Tyson recalled later defending someone accused of rape wasn't new for John in 1991 his cousin William Kennedy Smith stood trial in Palm Beach for raping a 29 year old single mother named Patricia Bowman John showed up to court in a public display of support even though his mother Jackie refused to do

the same John told his friend James Ridgeway just to get to see if I'm pronouncing that right

that the Kennedy family quote should have done something about Willie years ago when he first

started doing this close quote meaning I write raping women Bowman's story was entirely credible after meeting Smith at a high-end bar in Palm Beach Florida she testified that she went back to the Kennedy estate again I am going to insert my admonition there she can go back home with whoever she wants if she doesn't want to have sex she gets to say so and that's the end of it she went back to the Kennedy estate with Smith because she said there could be no safer place because quote she

said there was a senator there Smith's uncle Ted Kennedy and you see what I mean that if the media had just told the truth about these people women would in a thought they were safe and open quote I didn't feel I was in any danger whatsoever close quote Smith then walked her

he was going to kill me how does it feel to be a character assassin John his friend James Ridgeway just says day asked him after the verdict how does it feel to be this woman's

Leigh Harvey Oswald John hung his head he always hung his head when confronted with something

he didn't like it was a signal to back off in his own defense John muttered an explanation you just don't understand the pressure I'm under John's long-term affair with among many other women a woman named civil hill and the national inquire was the only outlet bold enough to cover this story it got picked up later by other outlets

“but no one else would go near it this was called JFK secret lover it was published in the year 2000”

after they had died and this is entirely credible and the the inquires stood this story up that's the phraseology and journalism you stand it up with sources and they spoke to several friends of hers who said yeah she told me all this contemporaneously long before you guys came around and she also had handwritten letters from him and a distraught I'm reading from the article John of Kennedy Jr had a passionate affair with a beautiful blonde in the last two years of his

troubled marriage which lasted three years four years the woman is civil hill 34 formerly have been hadn't of asked in Colorado a remarkable look alike for Kennedy's wife Carolyn John was unhappy

“in his marriage very unhappy civil told the inquire the tender love story you know they had a sort”

of goose her up a little bit um close friends who know about the affair say she provided a sympathetic ear as John poured out his heart about his failing marriage now he reconnected with her after she left New York City that's where they began their their affair he wasn't married at the time

but you know he always kept these women around Julie Baker was another one I'm gonna mention her in a moment

anyway John flew into Aspen by himself to attend a bachelor party for a friend at the Caribou Club these are all very details details are telling it tells you this is likely true Caribou Club in February 1998 John had met civil a few years earlier in New York

“new she'd moved to Aspen when he came to town he came by the store where she worked a cashmere shop”

and picked her up for lunch so he was seen civil's friend added they ate at a restaurant named Vin Vin which is a sort of out of the way spot as John did with Sarah Jessica Parker as your cultural criminal prosecutor I am showing a pattern he took her she said to out of the way places so they wouldn't be seen together again that that blood into sex in the city too but it's so he won't be caught cheating he's got to hide these women and they have such low self-esteem they take it

John wore a baseball cap pulled down tightly as a disguise following lunch they went back to her apartment they had sex then he went off to the bachelor party then when he was done at the

bachelor party at midnight he called civil and told her not to pick her up first of all come pick

me up like you're the help get cab you fucking asshole come pick her up so they can go back to her place and have sex again but not in the front she's got to pick pick him up in the back where all the trash is metaphor of all metaphor he confessed his marriage to Carolyn was self-destructing after they had sex John complained that his wife was open quote like this wonderfully cutesy warm person one minute and an emotionless ice princess the next and that tracks John wanted a baby he

said Carolyn did not John was also upset with Carolyn's gay fascinist of friends and her incestant jealousy he said he was still going to try to make the marriage work now the other fucked up thing that this mini series so that so the episode eight ends on John leaving the house

show and he stayed at the hotel up until they all left for the wedding on the cape the

“Kennedy wedding on the cape now this is how fucked up John Kennedy was Carolyn was fucked up too”

don't get me wrong John had been begging and bullying Carolyn to the point where even his assistant Rose Marie Trenzio inserted herself and encouraged Carolyn to get on that plane and go to that wedding because otherwise the media would be talking about how John was their stag and clearly they were getting a divorce and the media would have been right everyone likes to say you know the media they just like they just root around they make shit up journalist know what they're doing okay

the night before that flight that John had bullied and her ringed Carolyn into taking with him he was at his hotel with an ex-girlfriend named Julie Baker who bore a substantial resemblance to

Jackie making it doubly fucked up but you know she has always maintained Julie Baker has that they just

chatted that night she was always around whenever John called she came running so John is in my opinion she denies it but you know it doesn't make any sense John was likely fucking another woman hours

“before flying his wife against her will in a plane that I believe I believe that flight was a murder”

suicide mission I do the more I talk about it you know I theorize about it and ask not and I do offer evidence and ask not but the more I talk about it with you guys the more I really do think so and you know

ask sorry love story in this last scene we're gonna show it it makes a nod to John's suicide

reality it really does in the character here as played I think very well by Paul Anthony Kelly is enumerating all of the things in his life that are going wrong what remains on said but what we all know here is that John Kennedy Jr had zero internal resources because he had been given a glide path through

“life he was never told no he had zero emotional calluses he had zero emotional or psychological”

scar tissue he didn't know how to deal with one major failure let alone multiple losses grave losses his cousin and best friend dying slowly and painfully of cancer at a very young age his sister his primary confidant not speaking to him anymore his magazine his brain child was a laughing stock in New York City media it was failing and nobody wanted to buy it and save it his business partner Michael Burman had cut him out of his life John thought it was kind of like a just a thing

that Michael would get over because no one ever exited John of Kennedy's life voluntarily he was John of fucking Kennedy Jr Michael did and John couldn't fucking believe it lastly his wife he knew was fucking another man and was miserable and his marriage wasn't going to make it you think this guy was going to be able to handle that level of public humiliation the mask coming off the world recognizing that the emperor named John John had no clothes here we go there is nothing

you can say to me that would hurt me more than you walking out that door do you know it's like to see it in your eyes that I'm failing at this marriage like I failed as a lawyer and now I'm failing as a magazine editor I couldn't help my mom and I can't help the Anthony in I don't think I can handle another failure when I told you everything as you said not us whatever not us John we're having it not us what happened to us what happened to not us

what happened to not us when I told you everything as you said not us whatever not us this isn't ending yes it is you're running away I don't want to keep hurting you I want to be with you then be with me you don't want to fight you have to

now we're going to get all into that specifically in our episode next week which will be covering

“the final episode that heirs this Thursday on FX the next day on Hulu but I want to close this”

segment with what John F. Kennedy Jr told his friend Steve Gillen as recounted in Steve's book of his cousin Michael Kennedy's death who again was killed violently upon impact smashing into a

“tree without a helmet while playing football on skis having been told to knock it off by the resort”

and doing what Kennedy's do ignoring it that death was treated by the media as yet another Kennedy tragedy as part of the Kennedy curse much as John's imminent death and Carolyn and her

“sister Lawrence would be covered and perpetuated all the way into the year of our Lord 2026”

by the demon known as Ryan Murphy about Michael's death here's what John Jr himself said to Steve

quoting from his book they were warned about it meaning Michael in the rest of the Kennedy's my aside they were told to stop they weren't warned it wasn't an ask it was a tell but with the

Kennedy's it's never a tell it's always an ask and the answer's always a fuck no and now look

what happened John said it's just the Kennedy's acting like Kennedy's that does it that does it for this edition of the nerve at night god that was packed I loved it we will be back on Friday with a full nerve if you haven't already check out our sub stack at the nerve show dot com be sure to subscribe plus nerve merch grab something for yourself or pick something up for a fellow trouble maker at shop the nerve dot com we will see you back here on Friday for a full episode of the nerve

where you will never guess what we're about to say next