#295 Samuel Reineberg - First-Hand Account of the Old Dominion Terrorist Attack

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have a positive impact on your credit score. Results may vary, see Chime.com/fee's details, and applicable terms. Sam Rhinoburc. Welcome to the show, man. Thanks Sean. How are you doing? I'm good. I'm really good. Really happy to be here. Well, it's an honor to have you here. I've been through with this month. It's been a month. I'll bet it has.

Yeah, I bet it has been up and down, but through everything, I'm still grateful.

You seem good. Yeah, amazing time being here. Even before I got here,

“been active, doing things, staying outside, keeping yourself busy. Oh, yeah, you have to.”

I mean, when I've not been busy, it's when my mind gets busy. You know, oh, I do. Let me give you an introduction here. Are you ready? Sam Rhinoburc. Prior and listed U.S. Army Soldier, 88 Kilo Watercraft Operator, from Fort Ustis, Virginia, served aboard the Logistics Support Vessel LSV5, first leading Seaman of the maneuver, Support Vessel Light MSVL, earned a Division Commander's Green to Gold Scholarship in 2023,

Leadership, Science Major at Old Dominion University, Senior in the Army Reserve Officer's Training Corps ROTC Program. Commissioning is an active duty, second lieutenant. This may you're here to talk about what happened on March 12th. You received a Maritorious Service Medal

“for your actions. It'll Dominion University on March 12th, which is being upgraded, correct?”

It's correct. Soldiers Medal? To a Soldiers Medal. Congratulations. Thank you. Do you mind if I read your citation? Not at all. Cadet Samuel D. Rhinoburc, for exceptionally heroic actions, while serving as a cadet at the Old Dominion University, where I'm responding to an active shooter incident in life-threatening emergency on 12 March 2026. In the face of extraordinary danger,

in with total disregard to his own personal safety, Cadet Rhinoburc displayed incredible courage

under extreme circumstances. His selfless service and personal courage are in keeping with the

This day, this 21st day of March 2026.

“Yeah. That was at the funeral. That was at the funeral they gave that to you.”

Yeah, they had a small ceremony prior to the beginning of the funeral that day. The Sarmager of the Army and the Secretary of the Army put that on me. How did that feel? It's indifferent. It's great to have them there to be present, like having those leaders present. But in the moment, standing there in front of a bunch of people, I know and don't know

that to my right was the family of Colonel Shaw that I had never had a feeling like that

“because of getting a metal put on me, but the end result that I really take some really”

responsibility for Colonel Shaw didn't make it. You take responsibility for that? No, but just how it happened, it was like I was working on him. I don't know how, if it's survivor skill, but yeah, you were working on him,

trying to revive him. Not revive him. I keep him alive. Stop the bleeding.

Yeah, get him out of there. So the family is just seeing the family. And then after the Sarmager of the Army and the Secretary of the Army said their words about that day, the family came up to me. The cousins, the aunts, the uncles, and I'm standing there in my, my dress uniform.

And they're saying, they're saying, thank you to me. They're thanking me. And I am only able to respond with, I'm so sorry because that's just how I, you know, it's just, I can't even imagine. Because I'm having a hard time. I can't imagine them, you know, giving me hugs telling me thank you. And it wasn't just me. It was the other five of us, six of us that were up there, them going through the same thing with the team.

There was a view on total correct. Um, it will, there was one that was shot that had ran. On foot after she was shot in the leg. Um, so I, that minus, that, that, that one leaves seven or six, six. Like we got awarded. Um, the one guy who got awarded, he actually had his words, his purple heart and his mid-maritory service metal given to him at the, his, in his hospital room,

“by the Secretary of the Army and the Sergeant Major of the Army. Are you close with the other guys?”

Oh, yeah, especially now. Oh, but especially now. Uh, yeah, the team. How are they doing? I think they're good. Uh, for the most part. Um, I'm sure it's pretty similar to my experience. Uh, it comes and goes in terms of like thinking about it, not thinking about it. Um, but I've seen all of them. Um, yeah, they're in good spirits. Good, good. All of them. That's great to hear. Yeah, even, even the one

that was hitting the stomach. Because the out of the hospital, um, yeah, out of the hospital, completed the surgeries. He's good. I know he was going to come today, but he can't fly.

I got back to you guys, but you have an open invite. So you never, he is able to fly. He, I'm sure we'll

“will fly you up here and do whatever the fuck you want at the studio. So that was that was what he,”

that was, that was, that is what he wanted to do. He just wanted to hang out with you, shoot, shoot the shit, do whatever. You know, just the experience. Uh, and when I told him, I was like, hey, there's this opportunity. Like, you want to go? He was in his hospital pad when I told him and he was like, like, it was like night and day. The energy changed. Yeah, that's cool, man. Yeah, yeah, well, when he's up to speed, up to par. Yeah, we'll get you guys back up here. Yeah, I, I don't

even, I haven't even asked him about recovery. I, I just, I'm happy to see him. Right on, right on, man. Well, look, before we get too heavy here, and it's already pretty heavy. Got your gift.

“You know, everybody gets a gift. Yeah. So sweet, vigilance Lee, dummy bears made in the USA,”

legal in all 50 states, but I actually got you a better gift. What? So, you know, I mean, oh, my, you told me about your everyday carrier earlier. I do. I visit. It's a pulmetostate armory, uh, dagger compact with, it's a green sniper green. Nice. It's a pretty big every visit. It's a pretty big everyday carry. Not gonna lie. It's pretty, it's pretty fat. Um, but it works. Hey, the works. That's all the matters, right? It works, Ish. Well, I want to give you

a little upgrade. So, you know, I got a buddy over at Sig. His name's Jason, and I told him you were coming on today. And I don't think any guest I've ever had deserves a everyday carry. Got as much as you. Oh, gosh. Thank you. Let me know what you think. Hey, look at it. Oh, god. I'm, um, it means one. Hey,

if I want to take a look at it first, it might be a downgrade. Yeah, I'm trying to. Holy crap. Yeah.

The flared mag well. Hold it up. What do you think? The flared mag well. Oh, my god. With the all metal, that's the 365 legion by 6 hour. It's got the brand new, uh, optics up top. It's got the ported, um, slide there to help with muzzle flip and recoil. It's got the flared out mag well. Like you had already said, it's all metal, no polymer. I think it's a fucking beast. I'm just glad the barrel's not threaded. Yeah. For changing the change in the laws. Oh, yeah, I forgot. They're changing them.

Oh, my guns are threaded besides my shotgun and my bolt action. Well, there you go. And totally legal in Virginia. Yes. I thank God. I also got you a gift. Oh, I love this is

from the maneuver support vessel light. The newest, uh, class of army vessel first to

“be developed in 30 years. No shit. That's what I got. This is cool. You know what's crazy?”

The army has more boats than the Navy. Did you know that? I, yes. And the Navy has more planes than the Air Force. Yes, um, but the Navy's got us beat by tonnage. Well, yeah, they got some fat. Some fat but boats. But yeah, that's, uh, that's from the crew over there in Hawaii right now. This is your role. This is, uh, yeah, I've read this off in your intro. Yep. This is it. That's it. That was, uh, that was my last assignment before I went to school back to school. Man, I'll wear

probably. Yeah, they would, uh, the, the, the, the crew knows some get was given it to you and they're like, no freaking way. Perfect. Yeah. Well, we're for the interview. So we got here. That's Holy smokes. All right, man. You ready to dive into this? I'm ready. Yeah. Cool. Well, let's start with, so you were in the army and then it's some point you decided to go officer, which is a huge fucking mistake, but we could talk about that later. Yeah, it's been a

wild ride. It's been a wild ride. I see that. Um, but yeah, I was in the army, uh, and listed out of high school, uh, 18 year old, or did it like, early enlistment, 17 year old, uh, but it didn't

And, um, yeah, my dad was in the army, um, still in the army. Um, I've had uncle in the army.

It seems like a good idea at the time. And, uh, the watercraft operator, I mean,

“88 kilo, uh, son army boats, LSP5, uh, what are you guys doing on that boat? What's the boat for?”

It's a flat bottom, uh, 274 foot long, flat bottom, 78, 270 feet long. They do a logistical support. Um, okay. They'll put an Abrams company on there. They'll put tons of connexes or wheeled vehicles. You name it. They'll put it on there and they're able to go, I mean, into unimproved ports, uh, they have a big ramp on the front, lowers down. You can drive

right in, right off and on, right on, um, really low, uh, shallow draft, so they can drive right up

onto a beach if they have to, uh, and just offload whatever kind of assets that's on on board. Right on, um, awesome gig, like the best, like it is, it is, it was a really hard going officer over the war officer, because it's the war officers that are in charge over there on those boats. What is, so where would the boat transit from? Um, imagine there's some of these in the straight of her mouser. Um, yeah, um, to my now, or at four use this Virginia, that's one.

Is it salt, you go in the ocean? They are ocean, the LSVs are ocean going. Same as the same

“with the L, uh, LCUs, but just like a smaller version of the LSV, would you cross the Atlantic with it?”

Um, they do cross the Atlantic. No, they're ocean, they, they, they cross all the time. So this is like a container ship, in a way, in a container ship, in a, that's a lot more maneuverable and can offload and ship ports. Yes, yes. Um, they, the, uh, very versatile, very versatile, uh, also in Hawaii, in Japan, and prior to, I guess a month or two ago, uh, no, no activity in the Middle East, they had all come back to, they had all got, uh, re-homed to different ports state side,

but they were, uh, I think they left in 2020 on a quate. Hmm, so, um, and then they came back state side. So what are you going to do as an officer? Bill, it just sticks officer. I got branched, uh, logistics, so you already know before you graduate. I know, I know, I know where I'm going afterwards. Are you serious? Yeah. I know it. I know my next duty station. Well, please shit. I know,

“I know my next duty station, the exact unit, everything. You want to say where that is?”

Or is that? Yeah. I'm going to scoffle bare for why. 25th infantry. Get the fuck out. You're going to Hawaii. Nice. I'm really excited. That's, that's been a saving. I found out the day after the, uh,

attack, actually, the day after the attack. The day after the attack, which was the first day of spring break,

I found out that I was getting Hawaii. Holy shit. Those, yeah. It's, it's like, you can't, you can't, you can't make it up. That's pretty fucking wild, man. Yeah. I found out it was going to Hawaii. I found out that I was going to be in the 25th. Um, how the hell do you even take, I mean, what? The, you kill a terrorist, you guys kill a terrorist as a team. Yep. And then the next day, the army is calling you and telling you the next thing. The next thing. The next thing. I got an email.

Hey, you've got orders in your, in your army account. Look at it. Look at them. I saw, I was like, okay, let me, let me look at them. It's like, I can't, I was like, what is it? What could it be? That's in there. It's like, hey, here's your, here's your report date. You're going here. After your school. Wow. So, I mean, it's why I'm so excited. It does like, it's hard to celebrate it, but as time has gone on, that's two and a half, three weeks since everything. It's more and more like

at the forefront of my mind. Like, hey, I've got, I've got great things to look forward to. I'm stuck, you know, I'm still getting blessed. Good for you, man. So, um, I'm very excited. Good for you. Spring is here. The days are getting longer. The weather is getting better. It's important.

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first order at Sundaysfordogs.com/sures50. Sundaysfordogs.com/sures50. Or use code sures50 and check out. You ready to talk about the day? March 12. Of course. Yeah. Yeah, it was a regular day, regular day in class. Started the day off at home and woke up early. Like the PT on campus, on a PT on campus that morning. Like a scavenger hunt, like a fun game, kind of, you know, like camaraderie, PT session. And went back home, got freshened up, had a little breakfast, barely, barely had any breakfast

that day. I really pissed me off because I was like starving the rest of the day. You'll hear why. And put on some good clothes, nice, nice civilian clothes that day. We had been dressing in

“civilian clothes for a few weeks due to like the forced protection. No shit. Yeah, yeah. Why?”

Well, because they're in conflict. I don't know. Probably forced protection condition for that had been raised. They just didn't want any ROTC personnel in uniform or that was like, yeah, I think it was within the local basis as well. Interesting. So probably was because they are in conflict, maybe. I just know that I was told to wear civilian clothes. So I was that day in class. I was meant to my two partners and I. We had a combat in command briefs that day.

Each group got a sign of brief or a combat in command of brief on in class. And we had done the first

half that Tuesday. Fast forward a Thursday. We're doing mine. Class goes is normal. I had arrived an hour early to prepare. What class is this? This is the military science class,

He teaches the military science class for the seniors. Because he's the senior guy, senior officer.

“And yeah, I got there an hour early. Went over my presentation with my group with two partners.”

And everybody else in the class kind of starts filling in coming in. We class started around 1920 that day. It was a little early, but not out of the ordinary. And we're all in the class room. And the way the class from is set up, it's almost like I was telling your team this like this room in the way of the dimensions where we're all facing this way and facing this direction.

And Colonel Shaw's standing, he likes to student stand behind your chair right in front of your

like your chest right there. Next, you're kind of near engine where that's where his desk would be.

“And the entrance to the class would be where that door was. And the desks are long”

without gaps in between. And there's a walkway on the right right here. And for some reason that day, I chose to sit near the back of the class. I usually like to sit in the front, sat at the back, sat with my one of my partners, would be right there for visual purposes. And we had gotten through our brief, the rest of the teams have gotten through their briefs, and we're getting into the part of the class where Colonel Shaw's given his critique,

critiques and his, you know, what he thought was good and his bad. And he like, you know, he complimented me that day, actually. He was like, you know, Rhinerberg, one of the most knowledgeable guys. I did my brief on a transportation command, be able to just fix officer coming from that as an enlisted guy, I thought, why not? But you didn't have enough knowledge to not stand in front of your, uh, in front of your battle. Uh, when she was presenting for your group, it's like being

standing kind of awkwardly in between the desk and the projector screen, covering up the scroll, it's just like probably like, I don't know, four, four, ten, four, four, four, eleven.

So I was like, oh, like he always had like a good like quick humor with the way he did things.

He had good humor with it. Um, he's doing the critiques for the rest of the class and, uh, he's about to let us go for the day. He's like, hey, you know, I might not see you guys after spring break. I didn't know why. And, um, yeah, so I then, you know, I was like basically about to be done and, uh, skywalks in the room. Now, what's weird about this is the door locks. Door usually locked

“from the outside. You have to be let in from the inside. And I, I don't remember that it's very”

specifically, but a one student had gotten a little bit later to class that day. Maybe 925. And I'm pretty sure that student had to be let in by a Colonel Shaw. And then the class went through that near to the end. And, uh, this guy walks in, didn't have to be let in. So we are deep, we're just a weird detail. I, I, I, I, I told that I gave that in my, uh, statement later on. Um, so yeah, I'm like the last student just left the door half way open.

I know it was closed. It was closed. It was closed. The door is closed. The door was closed. Now, maybe it was like this much, then I was, so I was towards the back, I couldn't see, but yeah. Um, so the guy, terrorists walks in the room. And, uh, Mohamed Jelo. That's his name, right?

seen him. Never. He didn't anybody in the classroom ever seen him? There were some that thought they had.

And some of some other, uh, cadets in, uh, the junior class had thought, um, they had that, they thought they had seen him while during the PT hours early in the morning. Um, during like a rock march around campus, being like, you go, sir, you go, man. It's sarcastic. Hmm. What was he wearing? Uh, dark hoodie, dark pants, uh,

“he had these gloves on, like wool gloves, uh, you had a beard, a good longer beard. What did he say?”

Well, he walked in a room and he was like, kind of like, nervous. He's like, is this ROTC as a seminar?

And we're all like, huh? Nobody said anything. He said it again. Like, is this ROTC as a seminar? I don't know who it was, but somebody in the front was like, yeah, that was ROTC. And, uh, he, as soon as that person said, yeah, he drew his gun, y'all had a lot of hard bars, and started shooting, uh, my professor. And, uh, I, like, I hit the floor. We're not the floor,

“but like, under, like, right kind of ducked under the table. Like, oh, shit. I kind of apparently, like,”

stepping on the girl next to me. Uh, she told me that later. Like, maybe, like, a few days ago. And, um, I'm back up and the way I'm not thinking about any of this. This is the weird part. I mean, did you even realize he was shooting? I've been shot at a lot.

The shot at a point blank distance. And it always takes least for me. It usually takes a couple

of seconds to go away. It was like a second. Well, it's shit. This is okay. Yeah, I'm getting fucking

“shot at. It was like a second or two, maybe tops. And, and then everybody's on the ground screaming.”

And I'm, like, on my feet running now, I have to clear the, the, the people that are on the ground, like, trampling them. Shaw, Colonel Shaw, he had, like, was able to kind of, like, take step forward, some steps forward and kind of grab and pull them in, bear hug them. Is the shooter. So he, he, while being shot at, took steps forward and, like, bear, like, bear hug the shooter, while being shot at. Yeah. And I had gotten up and was moving right and

hooking the left to make it to the front of the class. And I see another cadet already on top of the shooter with a knife. And I had yelled, get them on the way there to the front, read, like, literally, that the distance is the same in this room as the classroom. And, uh, he, uh, there was a one cadet on top already with Shaw, from Shaw. And, uh, me and another cadet had arrived at the same time, but he was a row,

had a me, maybe two rows of row ahead. And, um, and it, it gets kind of, you know, it kind of slows down on my brain, thinking about it. Uh, but there was, like, four of us, total that handled this guy. We just, we're immediately trying to, like, go for the gun, right?

Uh, he's just trying to keep shooting. And we had our hands on this,

“the, that suit, we had our hands on the top of the slide of this clock.”

And, uh, as soon as we had, the, we're, like, pinned, we got him pinned in the wall, um, in the front of the class. And, um, as soon as we had the gun pointed away from our classmates, I had turned around, like, I'm on my knees, I'm turning around, we'll hold in the gun, like, rest still wrestling with the guy, I turned around, and, you know,

still screaming and stuff, that all that shit's going on. And I turned around, I was like,

say, everyone get the hell out of here, everybody run, and somebody call 911. Somebody call 911,

“everyone get the hell out. And, um, my classmates, they remember my face being like the last”

face they saw apparently, running out of the classroom, and it really, you know, freaked them out, because they were like, I don't even remember them running to be honest, because I, I was, it's just so much going on so fast, um, that maybe after a minute of wrestling with the dude and taking care of, taking care of this guy, the, the group of us, um,

you finally, like, let go, um, I mean, it's stabbed, you've been beat, mean, took an eye out,

you took an eye out, I did, how'd you do it, my finger,

“and then one of the other cadets had taken the gun. And at this point, after that,”

after the gun has been, the guy's done, the gun's handled, I go, my attention is just all on a colonel shot. I could care less about terrorists to be honest, um, but going into the aid now, with him, um, he had tried to stand up, like pretty, pretty quickly, he tried to stand up. And his, uh, he kind of leaned back into the wall, kind of braced his back into the wall, and then eyes rolled, lights out, fell on the ground, and I like grabbed him by a shirt on the

way down, fell kind of with him to stop him in a way, and at that point, I'm going, it's like, it's, it's, it's, it's still no thinking, but it's now, it's like, and now it's like, uh, now it's like real, like, really, really real. And, you know, this training, I don't know if it's training or it probably is, because I took the shirt up, and I took his pants down, and, and I'm looking, and I'm searching for blood, or wounds, and I had to exit wounds, yeah, but then the blood,

and, um, he's, he's hitting the leg, upper and upper leg, like high up in the leg, from oral. Yeah, I would say so, and, uh, just based off, uh, just how much blood there was, and it was a, a clock 22 caliber. Yeah, so had all places, right? It's like one of the, the least, like the worst place, yeah, and, uh, he's lights out on me, but he's, open his mouth, and I pull the tongue, uh, made sure he's breathing, and then, uh, one of my, one of my battles gave me his belt,

that belt didn't work. It was, had a weird, like, kind of cinch mec, just wasn't working. You're going to use it as a tourniquet. Yeah, we're going, we're going into treating. We're trying to stop this blood. It's a lot, and, uh, it's like me, it's, it's other guy, other cadet, we're, pull another belt off of him, his belts, it's leather belt strong, going up, cinch in it down,

pinned against the wall, and it's on his right leg, and he's, his right leg's kind of as close

“as to the wall. So I'm like, somebody get out in the hallway and secure the hallway, because”

there's more, really wide hallway, like there's more room to work, move, move from the work on him. And, um, yeah, so we picked him up, I was like, me and this other guy, picked him up, put him in the hallway, and, uh, he, like, came back for, like, a minute maybe, and he's trying to fight me to get up, like, stand up, and I'm like, ran it, no, man. You can't get up, like, ambulances come in, like, you're gonna be all right, bringing a good shot here, man, but you cannot get up, and he didn't

really say anything at all, who's this? This is Brandon, this is Chrono, Chrono Shaw, Brandon Good,

“and Brandon Shaw, and, uh, because I'm like, you know, I know his first name, and, like,”

he's trying to use his first name, uh, so we're waiting on the cops to come, uh, maybe a couple more

minutes had passed, I'm not sure, but I'm like, is he coherent? It couldn't tell, sort of maybe his eyes were wide open, wide open, uh, yeah, like he, he had gone lights out, like unconscious, and then came back after we'd moved him the hallway, and really since that Ternikin on, the first belt, and then, uh, the first two officers arrive, and it's one guy, and it's one female, one girl, and she's, uh, she's got, uh, I see it on her immediately, it's just like,

it's just Ternikit, it's like, right on her front or the her rig, um, she kind of just stops, like, she's like, oh my god, and I'm like over top of Caron Shaw, like this close, like right here, like, and I look up and I see her and I'm like, give me your Ternikit, me and my, my buddy who was right next to me, who was like still like looking after him, uh, we put it on above, even higher up at this point, like, just right, right there. Mm-hmm, sorry, as you can get it, as high as you can get it,

“that's what you're supposed to do. Then's to down, and the male officer came back and, uh,”

Caron Shaw went lights out again, and I was like, we need to get him the hell out of here. So, me two other cadets, and the male officer, we carried him down two flights of steps out onto the front of the building, this is a regular building, this isn't the ROTC building, uh, regular business type classes held in there, um, right next to right across the street from the football stadium, and parking garage and we sit him down and like redo on the turn of kit again making the even tighter

and he comes back again like and that's this time he's talking talking wow he's like talking he's like he's asking he's like I need my inhaler but like choked up in his throat like he needs his inhaler and uh I'm on top of them and he says that to me and I start screaming and everybody there's students out at this point with them it phones out recording there's squat running past you know guns blazing and uh I'm just screaming for this inhaler

and uh one cadet had ran it tried to go run fine wine and then there's like other cadet and other cadet is like going in and other building making sure that like because we had another one

other one that was head up and I still don't know and then the police finally they like

there with me now what's Colonel Shaw and um I was like Brandon we're gonna get you out him in there right here the ambulance is right here we got you bro we like we're gonna get you out it's gonna be okay like and he just was looking at me just eyes wide he's awake he's conscious he's not talking

I'm covering it like my shoes up from my shoes up to my chest and my hands to my elbows

“so I'm both soaked soaked in blood yeah and uh the police took him and then I was like kind of like”

okay now what I do like I gotta get safe my phone's gone I don't know if it was during the fight or when I was treating him initially in the classroom but my phone came out of my pocket somehow and uh had landed next to the to the to the shooter terrorist they thought it was his phone they

have bad FBI thought it was his phone and they were gonna seize my phone thinking it was his phone um

later on uh but yeah uh got off got off the spot and I found some cadets that were like stazed you know it's okay we're gonna go into the neighborhood and try to like hide out

“for a little bit and then they kind of followed me and then I was like you know what actually”

come back let's go into the parking garage where we're not in the open rose was across the street from the building where all this took place but I just thought in my mind it was the best option to take you just want to breathe or not even just like get safe and I was like I don't know it was like autopilot um on the way back to the parking garage this uh this guy comes up to me this guy comes up to me and like I said I'm covered in blood like there's blood dripping off my

fingers and this guy comes up to me he's like hey I need you to answer some questions

“like why what do you mean he's like I'm with ODU I'm an ODU official I need to answer any”

need you to answer some questions I was like let me see somebody let me see somebody because I'm like who could this guy be he's like wearing like a you know business outfit kind of bang he's got some glasses on I'm like all right I take his ID from him look at it I couldn't even see what it said because I'm like my visions kind of like this just a tunnel and I was like throw it back at him I'm like I'm not answering your questions and I went took the guys some

the gals inside to the parking garage at this point the police are all over it uh they saw me and they're like you're coming with us like we we need we need to talk to you now like like what's going on tell us and I'm like I don't even have a phone I need to I need to tell my dad I'm like I just need I need to I need to tell somebody like hey this is what happened and I'm okay because like and I and then I need to know like everyone else in the actual or to see building so

okay uh I can get my dad a quick call off the the detectives phone I was like hey dad like terrorist attack in my classroom I'm okay but I need you to get here right now like

I'm covered in blood and then we got into like the first statements with the officers there

we were in like the locker room of the the football team in the stadium because it's like attached to the parking garage and that's where that parking garage was and uh yeah had this female officer she was really good uh column me down and stuff I'm like I'm like like this like I'm just like everything is after me but I'm okay it's like a weird I don't know how to explain it it's just a weird state of mind that I was in and I'm like telling her everything that happened and then like

the police station in Norfolk cover like we get on to the bus and

we get on yeah we get on the bus and we started driving there and I was using one of my friends's phones I was like to give him my dad update sounds like hey dad like I'm on the way to

“the police station on can't remember what what road it was um but it just meet me there”

and uh it's just like all right sign up either and um we got there and like I'm sitting they put me they sit me down and like one of their office chairs like of like the detectives that work there the officers that work there and I'm just sitting there and it's like like this cubicle area and I'm sitting there and I am just like I don't even know what is going on I'm like just completely out of my mind in terms of like just what I don't know how to feel I don't know what

the thing I'm just there I'm just there and uh they start trying to bring in like

“chaplain's and stuff like that and the navy chaplain she took one look at me and literally”

kept going just kept going wow um she could see a new up huh but then clean up then in no not at all just my hands I took pictures with my hands I got to wash my hands that was it geez they kept trying to offer me like candy and soda they brought in some Chick-fil-A I like Chick-fil-A that was that was acceptable you're like and I get the fucking blood off me for no literally it's right and it's

it's I was there at the Playstation for seven hours it was starting to stink you were there for seven hours before you got to clean up yeah seven and a half seven hours yeah that they did one interrogation with me and interrogation or not interrogation but like you know they brought you it brought me in a room small room with single desk two chairs on one end me on the other were they asking you asking me what happened was there cameras in the classroom I don't know

“I don't think so but uh I think there's this cameras in the hallway maybe in the stairwells”

so um but yeah they're like trying to offer me candy and soda and I'm like I don't even care the one officer he was doing a good job though talking to me he was just talking me through it like just getting my mind off it like hey man like were you

like to travel this kind of stuff they got my mind off it for a second and then I'm like right there

I'm right back to right back in it mentally I'm sitting there hours and they're like what can me get for you and I'm like you know what like you guys are cops right I'm gonna like yeah I was like can you guys get me some zins or something like some kind of nicotine or something I'm like yeah I'll get this guy some zins like get us some zins and then they're all like all the guys that have zins are on you know at the scene right now the one officer went down to like

the wall wall or something nearby and got me a whole whole can the help it really did

and some hours more hours go by and they've been they finally my leadership finally brings us

into this small room with the rest of the cadets there from my class and they're like they said that they had some news and I was like oh now because I could see the faces of the rest of my leadership behind the one officer that told us what was that Colonel Shaw passed I got the hospital

and talking yeah so they broke that news it was pretty traumatic be in there just in here in that

“and man I'm sorry yeah but you know maybe an hour or two more past and”

was able to get to the course of the neighborhood hospital my dad took a had arranged for treatment for a plot exposure there for the me and the rest of the guys that had a some blood on them and yeah we got there and a full like blood panel and iodine shower change of clothes and a chaps came to saw me good chaplain too good guy I didn't get at home that night what did he say chaplain yeah I'm just curious what is a

chaplain say to somebody after yeah I didn't like that he was like he was like hey like kind of like you know hydrogen like really tell me or don't you don't have to but tell me how like talk to me what are you thinking right now what's in the gun do you're had you know these are you know that what you're feeling is normal God God saw saw you that day you know saw you today kept you safe what you know what you did and the what those guys did what you guys did

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well were you feeling in the hospital I was really anxious really stressed out I'm just

“really like on high alert uh there was a like a kid or like a boy in the room next to me”

they like let out a scream as I was getting looked at and I seized up in the bed right before there but literally about to do a blood draw on me thank god before uh so I would have been like really shitty um yeah giving you know gives you give some resources personal phone number hey like talk you know if you feel comfortable talk with me if it's not you know if it's not tomorrow can be a week from now I'm looking for now you're from now you know whenever you're ready if you want

“to talk call me I want he's like I'll answer I thought that was solid uh”

because let's like what do you say really mm-hmm what like what can you say what do you say uh yeah didn't get home that night's all like 11 o'clock at night and that was from 10 30 something when the whole thing kicked off uh did not really sleep that night or in the few some nights after did not sleep hardly uh didn't get to eat really um my appetite was really messed up like the stress or

something I don't know like this tightness in here and uh yeah um when did you get to talk to your

dad for the first time in person it was at the police station what about I'm private

once the first time you got a loan time what you're dead in the alone time just him and I uh it's really a busy guy I mean on the phone I'd gotten my phone back maybe the next day the next day my mom too my mom uh she was like a wreck I'd gotten to talk to her on the phone it was just too much to kind of like go anywhere like try to like hey like see everybody like hey I'm okay like I just couldn't I couldn't like handle

just being in the car going around like trying to see people like my mom and my dad um but yeah I mean like some days after that I mean uh days of followed really hard just like the stress the not really sleeping bad dreams kind of kind of dreams just like seeing just the hearing the classroom and seeing uh Colonel Shaw's eyes when uh he was on the ground they were really big kind of part like right before he had gone unconscious his eyes

got really big and when I said I got really just like really freaked out and really started

“getting like that moment got that set of eyes it's like a that's what we plays on your head that yeah”

that that and doing the first leather belt was a turn to get um yeah um

didn't have my phone uh I was getting like uh I was having to communicate like through people like through their phones uh that's that was rough uh and uh had my I had an iPad I've an iPad was able to like kind of I message call FaceTime audio call through that uh how many people were in the classroom 28 28 people yeah and four of you guys took a mountain yeah like the four of us

with aid and stuff like that um how long after yelled all up or did he search shooting immediately

“while he was doing it while he was shooting so there was you didn't have time to nobody had time”

now it was zero like no time it was it was instantaneous damn near from the confirmation that

yes this was the ROTC classroom shit and uh did he shoot a Colonel Shaw first yeah here's a

Colonel Shaw's the closest guy to him how far point blank six seven feet that's it I mean I mean first like I'm telling you the dimensions of this room is like the same like the door he shooters like the right edge of the American flag and Colonel Shaw is standing where your portrait is of you in the helicopter wow it's about five five six feet

“um how many shots do you fire four four um like I like the Colonel Shaw was he closed the”

distance like immediately damn near and was able to kind of bear hug him to the ground

after he had been shot did he hit him four times shot Colonel Shaw was holding hit once that's I checked the whole his whole body I only saw found one gunshot to his leg but a girl got shot she did she did get shot one did she get shot it must have been in that volley of shots so he wasn't just aiming at Colonel Shaw well um or somebody ran in front of him no um she was sitting in the general like line of fire um that hit Colonel Shaw she was sitting

but it's been sitting in the general line of fire if where he was standing um because she was

“in the front row um I think in the front row so the my left uh it wouldn't have been that much of”

a gap if uh if you were shooting quickly to maybe have a stray I don't know she was hitting the leg was anybody else huh yeah who else another cadet uh guy the one with the knife who was uh I don't know if he must have been shot he was shot and kept stabbing where was he shot and it's belly and the belly and the belly yeah any kept going kept going freaking insane where did you tackle this guy uh he was on the ground um

like Colonel Shaw was able to bear hug kind of bring him to ground Colonel Shaw way more sizable guy than the shooter was shooter was not a big guy um um maybe like five eight five five nine but like not like muscular either pretty like like no no that's strong um he was on the ground when we had gotten there already and it was just kind of like a beat beat

down just punches and elbows and people with knives and something even had a water bottle like a metal thermos hmm it was uh just uh who was heads up enough to put their hand on the slide so that he couldn't shoot anymore what was that who was heads up enough to put their hand on the top of his weapon it was a slide it was me and another cadet on my left did you know what you were doing you knew the firearm wooden function if he did that yeah it's pretty

fucking heads up man it I mean it's just I feel like it's kind of like you know I've liked I've done a fair amount of shooting and it's like if that's the main action of the of the gun of the pistol so it's like and he was trying to you kept trying to pull the trigger like at he's trying to swing his arm around at me and in the guide to my left what are you doing well he is trying to shoot you in the front we're trying like pushing the gun

there's a yelling now now he was he yelled shot you know and he like he did not say a word

“while getting beaten like at all he just kind of let out a couple grunts and”

maybe after a minute minute and a half he was gone how many times did you do I stab him ah do you have any idea a lot it was a lot it was in there was a lot and it was everywhere it was everywhere oh yeah there was a lot it was everywhere how big of a knife was it

do you know it's two three incher little bit a knife yeah two three inch knife like you know

it's a college campus I can't carry like a knife serve guns on campus really

“they just they you know they'd a couple of them happen to have one on them”

all I had on me that day was myself found until I didn't have it on me I was there and I'll just give my brief I was just there to give my brief and go on my spring break I mean you guys eliminated that threat in four fucking minutes with no firearm yeah it was when everyone else ran yeah I mean yeah I mean I'm telling them telling them to run made them run I don't know um here's the timeline 940 Muhammad Jala parks his vehicle on campus with a

legally obtained clock 44 22 caliber firearm 1040 an hour later Jala enters constant hall navigates to the ROTC classroom 1043 Jala enters the classroom asks is this the ROTC class upon confirmation shots all up are an open spire that's a 1043 1043 to 1047 Jala fires multiple rounds fatally wounding Lieutenant Colonel Brandon Shaw in injuring two ROTC Canada cadets ROTC cadets

immediately engage overcome shooter through physical force 1043 first emergency call placed

reporting active shooter 1047 police arrive on campus four minutes after the first call to determine the shooter is deceased yeah that means he died well before 1047 shot started at 1043 1048 run height fight alert issued to campus locked down protocols initiated 1210 all clear issued campus declared safe that is unfuck and real that you guys in less than four minutes were able to kill that did it was the team you guys the team it was unbelievable

health fluid and cohesive we worked on on and doing this was that instinct see I don't know maybe probably mostly instinct and maybe some training I'm not sure like there was no thinking involved I don't recall ever I don't I don't think there was any any like time during the course of you know those few minutes where I was like

deliberating over what I should do it is just doing

“I think the rest I think that goes for the rest of this guys and”

yeah I mean the team it really is like there's do you know how heroic that is is that even registering it's it's partially ish it comes and goes kind of like with the

come to terms with it and then other days I'm like I still am like what the heck is even going on

“what even happened and I think that you know I think they charged a terrorist that was”

killing people within you charged him with no weapon all of us our most of us with no weapon yet not even in there in eliminated in them in less than four minutes I like I said it's you know how many people would have been killed if it wasn't for you for they same you know it's it would have been more did he have more magazines on them

if maybe one other I know the one cadet he did he cleared this clear the it was fully loaded at least

the one mag was fully loaded I don't know how much was in how many rounds were in that mag but uh yeah the university president uh he said this uh the university president had had called me personally after I had gotten this like really weird email from some like associate assistant to the vice president of like the student conduct committee what did that email say yeah along the lines of uh hey Samuel just want to let you know uh ODU doesn't have any intention

of pressing charges against you in accordance with like the student code of conduct pressing charges

against you this is the ODU hasn't doesn't have any intentions of pressing charges against you

“after you killed a fucking terrorist that's what the email said I woke up one morning what”

is the what the fuck does that even mean this is yeah I don't know and he's and it was like you know no intention of pressing charges in accordance with the student code of conduct for the actions you took personally that day oh jeet thank you yeah I woke up that one morning at like a 30 in the morning I slept on the couch you know maybe it's been four or five days since the shooting look at my phone immediately screenshot I sent it out uh to my my my dad and some of my like

mentors from like when I was active duty and they were like what in the hell is that and I have the

“screenshot yeah you can okay thank you I give it to you yeah I think it was like a like a rogue”

it was a rogue email like a we know what you did kind of thing I don't know we know what you did the my phone the other I saved an entire fucking classroom this is so the university president was alerted of this that this happened and uh within a couple hours called me personally and was like I'm so sorry that ever that ever got sent to you don't even like no words but I'm sorry and what you in those guys did you guys are warriors your heroes and then he shared a personal anecdote

with me about uh his time when he was at Illinois University or yeah you saw the Illinois University and the 2008 um there was a shooting there apparently I didn't know this until he told me he was there as like a dean or something or vice president of the university and uh in a classroom of 150 there alone got him came in and shot or killed like night like 19 or 24 and nobody stood up to this guy so he called me to tell me thank you

and God bless you and keep in touch and I he wants to make it right you want to make it right and uh his uh number two her and I started corresponding this is where I made this group chat for the guys that us guys that stayed back in the room just to talk about hey how's everyone doing how's everyone feeling

but uh they won the university president uh wanted to take us out to dinner

“he said anywhere you want anywhere you guys want to just agree on a spot let's go”

so we chose uh really really like expensive steakhouse and uh that the Monday it was the day after the funeral we all went uh and we like broke Brad fellowship together uh he wanted to get eyes on every single one of us

but yeah so it should be good amazing leader I mean amazing uh and it wasn't even like

bureaucratic or anything it was just real good like you know it wasn't like a check the box like hey I saw these guys it was like it was like person a person um and he heard our I mean

“he even heard our complaints or suggestions uh will warrior suggestions”

oh man you know increasing security uh Colonel Shaw he had been there a few couple years or three or two or three years at this point and uh he had grown like the RTC population from I don't know what amount but to over a hundred some and uh I had had been corresponding with his aide and uh or maybe she's a vice president I'm not sure but I said to him I was like you know if uh you know what kind of security measures are

we're gonna put in place for our RTC populations clear you know after this clearly you know targeted what are we gonna do because if you don't and if you don't help people will feel safe then the growth that Colonel Shaw did for the program will be cut in half because people are not gonna feel safe and want to show up and they will just disembowl he had already was like hey Virginia State Police ODPD they're gonna be out of force every training event

there before you guys show up to after they'll be there watching so all right um the first football game this coming fall semester home game the everybody every football player on ODPD teams gonna be wearing camouflage with the Colonel Shaw's name on the back they're gonna do an Apache fly over prior to the kickoff Colonel Shaw was a patch of pilot he loved Apache's and army aviation and you know renaming a building commemorating the part

of the stadium where Colonel Shaw always liked to stand and hang out next to his uh his uh 105

Howard sir that we we got the shoot off for the games nice uh memory commemorating it as like Shaw's corner

“stuff like that do you think this could have been prevented I think so how so I think you know”

I think that the law maybe as in as uh strict as it needs to be on individuals who have prior prior convictions and associations with terrorist organizations for sure one way it could have been preventative is if they wouldn't have released him from fucking prison two and a half years early yeah what do you think this guy's motivation was Mohamed we think his motivation was just hate hate hate hate and hate meevle

let me give you a radicalization timeline do you mind if I do that sure I'm not familiar about sure there's a radicalization timeline for Mohamed jala 2009 to 2015 serves honorably

things like that in 2015 he quits the national guard after listening to online lectures from deceased al-Qaeda

“cleric and war al-Qawali jala 2015 to January 2016 travels to Sierra Leone in Nigeria”

makes contact with Islamic state members views extremist propaganda early 2016 contacted by ISIS a virtual platter online operative who encouraged attack planning told the FBI he wanted to conduct an attack similar to the 2009 fort hood shooting to kill 13 people jala third 2016 arrested after three month after a three month FBI sting operation attempted to purchase an air 15 rifle and tried to donate $500 to ISIS October 2016 pleads guilty to attempting to

“provide material support to ISIS yeah I didn't know you couldn't donate to ISIS the US government”

sons 40 to $87 million every fucking week to the Taliban did you know that I've I've I've heard

about this for that flags from we've read about Taliban was burning that flag in Afghanistan and the man that uncovered the fact that the US government is sending 40 to $87 million fucking dollars a week to the Taliban which is going to training people like Muhammad jala to come here and fucking kill our people our US governments funding that I just want everybody to know that the US government is funding fucking terrorism okay so let me go down this timeline a little

bit more prison record in early release sentenced February 10th 2017 to 11 years in a federal prison plus five years supervised release prosecutors recommended 20 years he only served eight and a half years transferred to a halfway house a halfway house all halfway house he's in prison for pleads guilty to attempting to provide material support to ISIS so they send them to a fucking halfway house

“honestly I don't even know what halfway house is a halfway house is for addicts oh that's what”

halfway house is okay so they send them to a fucking halfway house released on December 23rd 2024 approximately two and a half years early reason for early release completed a r-dap a residential drug abuse program despite having no drug convention convictions only terrorism convictions federal law prohibits violent offenders from early release via r-dap this was a legal loophole the federal bureau of prisons has since closed loophole in 2025 it's so was preventable I mean

they not let a fucking terrorist out of prison two and a half years early on a fucking r-dap residential drug abuse program why the fuck would you release a terrorist a fucking terrorist two and a half years early on a residential drug abuse program whoever the fuck did that needs to go to prison yeah along with every member of the US government that's sending

forty to eighty seven million fucking dollars a week to terrorists to train Mohammed Jala to come to ODU

and fucking kill your professor God rest his soul let's rough that's the reality this thank god for people like you and your fucking comrades yeah so some real americans left in this country we just want to we just want to do our best I know man and the shit just pisses me off because

on a fucking drug rehab program this wouldn't have happened if they would have taken the fucking

“shit seriously that this guy was actively helping ISIS wanted to be wanted to be an ISIS”

was an ISIS member one overseas to train to look at whatever kind of material to and we fund it we fund this shit how fucking crazy is that you don't have to be Abraham Lincoln or Winston

Churchill to make a powerful point you just need to understand how to use your words that's exactly

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“elites the watch floor where we highlight what matters it became a permissive state explain to you”

why it matters and then aim to leave you feeling better and form than you were before you hit play

terrace hostile intelligence agencies organized crime not everything is urgent but this show focus on what is need to know not just what is nice to know you know it's hard to conceptualize that especially um because you know being a soldier wanting to defend the country it's hard difficult the country still worth defending Sam I believe politicians are not they are not worth defending yeah politics isn't really it's it's hard to keep up for me you know I stay in my

lane I just want to I just want to take care of the people around me you care of my soldiers you're a good man um yeah lawmakers you don't have to say anything man it's it's hard it's hard to talk about uh it's hard to talk about even though I'm not representing the army in an official capacity uh it's hard to talk about those facts about what the government funds it's not the army's fault man I know it's not that's our politicians you know what they

want to do they want to sit on x and bat the shit back and forth like it's some fucking political campaign and not do a fucking thing about it and now we have terrorist attacks happening in our fucking country that we're funding and I've been saying the shit was going to happen for fucking years a lot of people seeing other people I was in the police station and I saw on the TV that day that the uh the it's like a church or something in Michigan I've gotten attacked that day

“too and then there was another one in Belgium I think you have that same day I think that was”

all the same day um yeah uh uh I love my country I love the people in it um I love the army

enacting change and uh within the organizations that I'm a part of is what I want to do

what are you doing for yourself right now the shit can creep up on you yeah um staying active uh talking to my mentors my my friends my leaders leadership from when I was a prior service if any of them killed anyone before they have um yeah

“and uh are they walking you through that yeah they are uh honestly the terrorist is not”

that whole part of the sequence it doesn't really bother me at all good like at all it's the

it's it's it's it's Colonel Shaw and and taking care of him it's a survivor skill that's the thing those that that that part of it is uh that's the hard part for me is that part uh do you think you could have done something differently who me yeah

“there was nothing to do different you did everything you could man we all did like”

the team there was nothing else better i don't think we could have done we had what we had and we made use of it so what is tripping you up about that the experience itself or what do you feel guilt about uh not so much it was guilt in the beginning but now it's more it's just the sadness like uh in the funeral I had seen him they before they shot the

“casket they did like a final viewing uh that that that day and uh just like seeing somebody”

you were taking care of alive and talking to the opposite and laying in the uniform in a casket and that's it's just just getting through that mentally that's that's the thing that's the hard part for me and the family the his wife and his son he loved his son and he

holds his son think he's like 10 fuck man uh he was an amazing father i know that amazing father

amazing husband um very big leadership void without him there uh really good representative of the army to the university yeah that's the hard part in the funeral the flag the flag passed you know to the spouse and watching her carry it out and i wonder it was being handed to her the like yes the coordinating officer who like I guess you know it was the charge of the funeral who passed gives the flag

he like leaned over and his hat fell off his his cap onto the ground and that was a lot of that it's hard man i've been to a lot of those especially where you see their kids running around to get and they just want to know what the hell is going on and what is my dad coming home hmm he's not now and yeah i saw like a tweet it was like i don't know how many months

stuck with me just seeing that it's like a tweet or something say i'm gonna stay ahead of this man this stuff it can creep up on you yeah it takes a long time

to cycle through all the emotions try my best this is my first time going through something like this

hopefully it's our last time yeah um are you in therapy no no they're gonna start

“probably not no um why um because i think like there's like other ways of like they're they're”

doing kind of like self therapy like i like going on to the garden uh i find it therapeutic to talk with my friends or like mentors that are really trust good about it um therapeutic for sure to

do that and you know chaplain eventually i think i see that but right now now

well as long as you're not internalizing it all that's a good no definitely not internalizing it i'm not bottling it up i was you know i was one of those people back when i was like a like a

“a little young teenager i know it's not the right way so when we wrap this up i'm gonna give”

him a contact info if you need anything anything appreciation it made up um i've been through

just about every fucking healing avenue you can imagine so yeah at least point you in a couple

directions yeah um i really appreciate that um you listen to the show i do a lot like hours and how does heaven is um in a lot of mentors that would love to help you out man and your comrades which i can't wait to meet them i hope i do yeah um they would love to meet

“you open and bite anytime you guys want to come out we'll fly you up there we'll put you up”

we'll set it up thank you Sean my pleasure um but yeah through all of this through all of this um i got i got called by somebody uh it's like a somebody just trying to reach out and they were like hey like you know you think about getting out now or like you know trying to get some disability it's like now get for you now i want to be i want to I want to serve even more good for you man so is there anything you want to say to your comrades

your fellow cadets that you haven't yet maybe if i forgot to but i'm proud of them proud and thankful for every single one of them i thought if i didn't there it is because there's anything you want to say to the colonl colonl show i miss you man i do you know even do it that way through everything like that's you know i miss you and i hope you know i tried my best to retry our best the team

do you want to tell us some what kind of man he was what was that you want to tell his 10 year old son what kind of man he was yeah your his dad your dad he loved you so much

everything i think everything he did was for his son and same for his wife

“well man we're wrapping up the interview but got you one last present”

what's this name you're a catholic you'll know what that is it's rosary thank you pull it out you know who domarazo is yeah i met him you met dom yeah uh yeah when i was a high schooler um i worked at a restaurant down in a

sportsman Virginia uh beer garden he was frequent that there a lot with his family

i'm like not like like short kind of big beard that's dom yeah i've met him when i was like 16 i've he's got uh the knives the knives oh yeah this stuff yeah this is sweet is this from him well yes dom has those made those those rosaries and he calls him the warrior rosary and uh so i thought when you told me or catholic earlier off camera i thought oh man i've got to give him one of these things yeah like i'm not even

kidding like i've served his family as like a like a teenager wow small world yeah that's

“crazy small world yeah he's awesome guy i met him he was it was a sunday i think”

and he had taken his family to church and he was getting a meal after church and he was just talking he was just talking to me that's just a teen like a teenager i wasn't even joining the army or anything at that point right on man that was a great dude yeah well i thought you might like that i do i really i carry one with me everywhere i go i think that rosary brings a lot of protection and uh maybe you'll carry it to yeah and so i thought maybe we could

“end this with a prayer that you lead for Colonel Sean his family god thank you for bringing us here”

today uh keeping us safe you know that day uh on March 12th it's a really bad day and um you know i i pray that uh you see Colonel Sean's family and protect them and bring them as many blessings as you can and that you bring his son into your arms and keep him safe amen mind if i add a little bit more and she's i just would like to add that i just want to

say thank you for Sam and his comrades for standing up in the face of fear that day because if they hadn't who knows how many lives would be gone with Colonel Sean it's been like that that make this a great country and also just want to say please be with Colonel Sean's family they're gonna need you more than anyone right now in these

times and uh never forget amen amen yeah Sam sure thank you man thank you man thank you

it's an honor it's a real honor it's a pleasure

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