Emma Grede Gets Personal On The Cost of Ambition, Self Mastery, & The Truth About Success

They are The Bostics.

“Hello everybody, welcome back to another episode of The Bostics.”

Today we have one of our favorite recurring guests Emma Greed, who is the ultimate modern mogul, turning big ideas into some of today's most influential consumer brands. She's the co-founder and CEO of Good American. A founding partner of Skims, the co-founder of Safely and Offseason, and now the voice behind the podcast Spire with Emma Greed.

She also has a new book called "Start With Yourself," which we discuss. In this episode, because it's our third episode with Emma, we really got personal. We dove into how she thinks about things, her childhood, how she thinks about the people she works with, what she considers career power moves, and this episode is really for anyone who wants to live an extraordinary life on their own terms.

We love talking to Emma, like I said, this third time on the show, we also just interviewed her at the Inc Summit during South by Southwest. With that, Emma Greed for the third time, welcome back to The Bostics. Emma, you're back on the show, third time. It's kind of like three and a half because we just did this panel, which we thought was going

to be an episode. But you know what I said now, no, no, no. Yeah, we really wanted to see you again, Mr. We made an excuse. Welcome back to The Show. I'm so glad to be here.

Congratulations on your book. Thank you, my darling. Start with yourself. Let's go. I'm in do it.

I love it. I told you. Very you. I don't know what that says, but everybody else. It is very.

It's very you. By the way, I was born like that. I know this about you. I know this about you. She's like, I'm, I'll do it.

Let's, let's go. You have to start with yourself. I'm telling you, you've got to start with yourself.

“This is like the no bullshit guy to ambition, and it's really important for me to have”

written this. I can't tell you how happy I am with it. Well, congratulations. And what's so interesting is I feel like every man on the planet starts with themselves. So now we're just, we're stepping into our own powers.

Catching out, babe. We just got to do it. We catching up. Absolutely. You open up about your childhood in this book, which we haven't touched on much on the

other episodes. I'm assuming you were saving it for the book.

No, I just never thought that it was, I don't know, I just never felt like it was necessary.

Like, I'm always here to talk about my businesses and talk about my career and what I'm doing. And I never really thought that that was interesting. You know, though, for as long as we've done this show now, there's like, when I try to think about what the through line is, so many high performers and achievers and dating and whatever. Like, so much their childhood is like a map to later on.

And I think we, like, you can, you know, we were talking to this guy the other day and he was even talking about dating. He's like, the partners you choose, you know, you're either, you're trying to map to some parental behavior or something from, it's a deep route. So I think it's highly relevant to talk about you because people see all of the success

you've had. And it's like, almost like, they see, I don't say the end result because you're still going. But they don't see all the things that took place early on. So if you look back on your childhood and you were described to somebody that had no context

of you, how would you describe it? I had a very loving childhood. If I'm really honest, you know, I'm the eldest of four. I was raised by a single mum, all girls, I kind of chaotic, like a, you know, a kind of,

like, the whole household was always like buzzing with like hormones and God help us like

that time in the month, you know. But it was for the large part, like, I come from a real community, like, it's London is a real place where you have a sense of being in a community that, like, you're looked

“after that there are people around that if you need to, you can go in their house and get”

fed. But there was like, you know, there was danger. There was like stuff going down around me and there was a sense of if you, you kind of didn't watch yourself that, you know, there was like, a lot of fear there and a lot of unknowing, but I grew up in a really amazing family that really, like, really looked

after me. And what age are you aware of that fear and danger? You know, too young, I would say, because I wasn't raised in a way where much was kept from me, like, there was no, like, oh, be careful with the kids listening. It was just like, my mum only had me and she relied on me in a big way and so I became,

we always joking my family, the dynamic is like, my mum's the dad, I'm the mum and we have three kids together and so I really had no choice but to lean in to help him my mum.

But it was never something that I felt like put up on.

I just felt like, you've got to help your mum, you know, it's like, my mum's at work. I needed to make the dinner. My mum was at work. I needed to iron school shirts and make a pack lunch for three kids and get them out the door and honestly, where the time I took everyone to school, I would turn around and come home

and watch Oprah. And that wasn't, like, no one was like, checking on me to make sure I went to school. Nobody was like, have you done your homework? Was that, is the ironing done and if the ironing was done, you could get away with anything. And so that's how I lived.

At what point in your life, did you find that that was unique or did it take you a while to step out of it? It, you know, I never really understood it until I was in my teens because again, like, where I come from, there is this great sense, like, your mum's your mum.

Is this okay? I was just doing what I learned to do. I was a highly capable kid. I could make dinner for five people by the time I was like, 10 or 11.

And I never really thought of that as being put upon.

“I was like, this is just what my life is.”

I was always a person that had, like, massive ambition. Like, I always imagined that there was something else on the other side outside of where I was from that I could literally work my way towards. I was like, that if I just work really hard, I can get out of here and there's going to be this other thing on the other side.

But, you know, there was never a part of me that thought, oh, you know, like, I feel solo for myself or I feel like the other kids are doing something else. Oh, that's just my life. Well, I don't want to put words in it, but it sounds like you're almost trying to escape. I was very much trying to escape because I knew, I felt otherwise, I was like, this

is not for me. I'm not going to stay here. I'm not going to do what these people do. Like, I really felt that it, like, deep down inside me. I was like, there has to be more out there.

And, you know, for me, I, I kind of got into fashion in the way that some people think about the movies. You know, it was my sense of escapism. It was this place that I went to in the magazines. And I looked at it that's like, wow, there's this other, in the same world.

And you could be a part of that. And I would dive into the magazines and study all the brands. And for me, that sort of appetite to learn things was about, like, at this sense of escapism, like, getting out of what was my norm, which was really dark and really heavy and really intense and doing something that felt like more glamorous and more like, oh, my goodness,

something to aspire towards. When you start writing about both of your parents in your book, does that bring up of

“interest stuff that you were not thinking is, or is it therapeutic and liberating?”

I think both, if I'm really honest, I've done a lot of therapy. I've done a lot of work. I started when I, and I would talk about it in the book. I had a real anger management problem. And when I was 18 or 19, I went and I did, like, a, almost like a community therapy course

and started to understand that no one ever said to me, you know, Emma, you can, you can breathe and get through this. You can get rid of that, like, feverishness that is like choking you and you can, you can let the anger just kind of dissipate. I wasn't taught that.

I had to teach myself that. And I think that I have, through my life, got better and better at managing the things that have held me back. And I knew that if I didn't get a grip on some of that stuff that I wouldn't be able to get anywhere.

So, I think that I've done a lot of therapy, I did the Hoffman.

I always have chosen to kind of go out and do things that, you know, are challenging for me

and outside of what I was taught on what I know. And so the work has been, the work has been done. But of course, as soon as you write things down, you seek, like, seeing it on a page, it's very different. And having other people question you about it and, and talk about it is different.

With all the success that you've had since then, and that you continue to have, do you still feel like you're trying to escape? Is that like what's still pushing you or do you feel like you've kind of now got to a place where you can breathe a little more? You know, I don't feel the need to escape.

“What I feel is such tremendous, like a tremendous sense of luck, right?”

Like, there is nothing in me that thinks that talent alone, that hard work alone has got me to where I am. You know, the other day I went back to East London and we were doing some content for the book and for the tour and one of my friends DMed me after I posted and he was like, shit, you were here and I was like, shit, you still live there?

Like, do you know what I mean? Like, I didn't even, like, cross my mind that someone I knew was still there in that place. And so that's never that far away from me, you know, it's like, it's always there. And I talk about this, like, skit that Chris Rock did, you know, he bought this, like,

he's first, like, mega mansion and he said he keeps a bag packed because he always imagines

like, someone's going to come and be like, hey, dude, like, this is not your life. And I kind of feel a little bit like that, sitting like in my house in Bel Air. I'm like, one day, it's a little bit over. And I kind of, it's the only place where, like, skiss that he shows up in my life. Well, I imagine that's also a bit of a superpower because it keeps you motivated and driven

working. One hundred percent. Yeah, I don't take one single day for granted. Like, even coming here today, I'm like, I get to come and speak to you too. I get to, like, have this amazing team.

I get to have my makeup done. Like, there's nothing in me that goes, this is it. And I'm resting on my laurels. I am always thinking, like, what is next? What do I have to do?

How hard do I need to work? How should I behave? How should I treat people? What is happening? That is just, like, how I'm wired.

Like, I'm wired to be thinking about the next thing and never feel too comfortable. I really want to know, for my own self, yourself. What you think about the fact that you are raising your children differently. Oh. And with the way that you were raised has obviously created this unbelievably independent,

I want to raise my children with those, with those. Yeah, good luck. I really want to get you growing up and growing up. Yeah, how do you do that as a parent?

“Well, it's an, I don't think you can manufacture grittiness, right?”

I feel like, with my first kid, I was always trying to manufacture hardships.

I was like, where are you going? Back in the plane, like, it's like, no, like, let's get real. Do you know what I mean? Like, they are growing up and living really different lives to how I was raised. But at the same time, like, I'm like, well, what are they seeing?

Like, what is their lived experience? They watch their mum and their dad, by the way, leave the house every day. And we go out and we go to work five days a week. They also see me making a lot of sacrifices, because I speak to my kids. I, I will never ever forget with Lola, my middle child.

She's nine years old. She was like, so sad that I was going to New York. She had a mum, I'm so sorry you're going on another work trip. And I was like, you know what, though, I have such a great time when I go to New York. Like, I see my friends, I go for drinks, I sleep diagonally in a beautiful hotel.

And she was like, oh, you do, you're going to have a good time. Great. Have a good time. I had made, I feel like that. Me creeping out the door going, I'm so, so sorry.

So what I try to do is actually explain to my kids, like, mummy has worked really, really hard to get to this place where what I do is so important to me and so important for me to see through that every now and again, I won't be there to satisfy one of your needs. And I think within that, I'm kind of teaching them that you have to work hard.

“You have to go out, like, the point of your whole life is for you to be happy, not to satisfy”

me. And that's what I'm doing. And I think that is sometimes a little bit hard to swallow, like for people like your

mum or four, and you're putting yourself first, and it's like, yeah, I am.

And I've chosen to have these children and I love being a mum, but it isn't everything. It isn't 100% of me. It's a part of me. And I think they're going to learn from them. Why do you think that's a hard pill for people to swallow?

I guess the pre-required idea of a woman is that you've got to be empathetic and that you have to please other people and that you have to make sure that what you come across as first and foremost is a mother. And that just isn't the reality of my experience. When I wrote this book, I was like, I'm not going to lie.

I'm not going to lie about how I feel about my job and how much I love it. I'm not going to lie about the things that I do for my family. I'm not going to lie about the trade-offs. But actually, just going to be really honest, because I think what we need is more models in the culture of like, there's different ways to be a mum.

There's different ways to be a businesswoman. Just so happens that I'm combining the both. But I don't really sign up for this idea that everything I do has to orientate around my kids. Or indeed, that everything they do needs to be somehow managed by me, because I just don't

refuse to sign up for that. I don't believe that that's the type of parent I want to be. I don't want to control like every part of my kids' life. I don't understand when parenting became kind of like this all-time happiness project you on behalf of your child and usually the mother doing that for the whole family.

I'm like, I am not here to please everybody else. I have to please myself first and then work my way through the family. It's interesting that you're saying this because you actually helped me on the last episode, not with Inc. But you helped me so much because I was having so much mom guilt.

Yeah, you are. And you told me that story about how I need to tell my daughter, I get to work. I'm so lucky to work and it changed when I leave now. She's not freaking out and I also think it's true. She's seeing me and my power being independent.

And she's happy to be here. By the way, this is what works for me. Yes. It doesn't have to work for everyone else. I'm just saying for me, I want my kids to see this kind of role model in you.

You had that when you were young, which is-

Well, my mom worked always and still does.

It's like my example. I actually think as I've gotten older and I've like analyzed certain women I'm attracted to in intimate relationships, it's like always that it's like women like yourself. It's like that. You had the archetype.

Yeah, because my mom was always off doing- and yeah, of course you missed your mom. You want to see her. But like, as I've gotten older, I respect what she was doing. She was just trying to work for the parents. It also makes a pretty independent kid.

Yeah, and you know what? Here's the thing.

“And I'll just take a shot at some of my friends that I think were baby and a little too much.”

My guy friends. It's like- I think she's a real thing. They're really amazing. My friends are still breastfeeding.

She's 41 now. Yeah. Yeah, it's a little like- Yeah, it's a little like- Yeah, it's a little like-

Yeah, it's a little like- Yeah, it's a little like- Yeah, it's a little like- Yeah, it's a little like- Taylor, we were back together.

Taylor, we were back together. Oh, no, but I mean, I do think that later in life, if you've had this like- Okay, I'm gonna get in trouble. If you've had this like overly doting mother that's helicoptering over all the time and then you date women later, especially if it's really strong independent women.

doing a little too much. It's hard than later because you have this dynamic with what you're like expecting that. Because you know, you map to what the example is. Yeah, well, and I feel like women too, are in so many ways to, you know, it's coming from a place of like-

I wanna help my kids. I wanna do everything that I can for them. But in actual fact, you take away the ability for them to have their own choice. Like, I want my kids to have the dignity of their own process. Like, I want them to go through things and figure out what is right for them.

I don't wanna sweep all the obstacles out of the way. And neither do I want them to feel like they can't do something for themselves. And so I think sometimes just leaving a little- like, something out there, like you guys have to figure it out. Like, it's not my job to like do, you know, figure out every playday.

And like go through every single thing that you're gonna eat and like map out every outfit.

“There's shit that you need to do by yourself.”

And that's gonna be really, really good for you. And hopefully you find something that you love. Like, that's all I ask for my kids.

I just want them to have one thing that they care the most about and be amazing at that.

I tell my kids when they ask me to do something. I go, "I made you two hands and two feet to walk to go get it and pick it up and my stomach." There they are. I did that. Fuck it.

I did that. Get off. You did it. Go get your scissors to open the bag of chips. Yes.

I don't care if you're three, get those scissors that are the totalers. You can figure it out. You gotta figure it out. But you know, you know that and you see it now, right? I can see so clearly when people in their early 20s come to work for me.

I'm like, "Who's mom opened the chips for them?" Right? It's clear as day and I don't think that that is a good way to live. And I don't think it's healthy for the parents and because it usually falls on the mom, what it does is takes away from so much of your energy and you get resentful.

And I promised myself when I had my first kid that I would never project resentment on him.

And what that meant is I'm going to have to do all of this stuff I was going to do anyway and he's going to have to figure it out.

“And those two things that we meet in the middle, right?”

It's actually, yeah, I'm a very good, very hands-on mom. I just have chosen what's important to me. I even think about it from the lens. Like if you're at a certain level of success as a parent, if you had it easier than your parents and now your kids probably going to have it easier than you.

So you almost have to double on the capability. Yeah. Right? Because I think about it for our kids. Like we had to figure some things out. You had to figure some things out.

A lot's figured out for them and I'm like, "Well, now I need to like, you guys need to like almost double figure out ship because if not, you're going to get into the real world and you're going to realize it's not a soft place." And you're going to be set up for a miserable time. You're going to be set up for a miserable time.

And that's when I love this idea of thinking about vision. It's not just something that you bring to business but you bring into your life and feel family. Because I think that when you have a strong idea of like, what type of woman you want to be, what type of mum you want to be, what type of father you want to be, like you reduce the kind of like ability to feel guilty about anything.

Because you're like these are the things that matter to our family. These are stuff that's important to me. And for me, I have to be there for a bit time. Like I'd like to do bed times. I like that moment of having dinner together and doing stories and then putting the kids to bed.

But it does mean that there are other things that I'm not there for. And I have to explain that to my kids. But in my vision of what type of mum I want to be, I'm very clear about that. So I'm not trying to measure myself against like some woman that I saw on Instagram because that's not what is important to me.

That's not the vision I have for myself as a mother. So I try to get like really clear on like what is the stuff that matters the most to me. You know what I have a tip? Sometimes I see a lot of people like filming like these amazing like, like they're like waking up and making breakfast with the kids and milking the cow outside

and the goat gives the baby like what you mean. And then I think to myself, wait, but there's a camera in the kids' face. And my vision, and this is not a judge, go ahead and put a camera in your kids' face. But my vision for my kids is I want my kids off screens for them. It's kind of a judge, it's kind of a slight judge, I'm being honest, I'm just saying a judge,

I'm just saying, there's sacrifice with everything. And if sacrifice with that is there's a camera in the kids' face. So I just think my point of it is saying if you're just scrolling and you're looking at other people's lives and how it looks, the sacrifices there's a camera in the kids' face.

“So you need to know that. What I'll also say is similar to your husband and you,”

we work together. I don't think I can recall one time having a guy reach out to me and give me shit about time with kids or a man or if I go to work and I know you guys, like you both are working equal hours and leaving work in a lot. They're like we're here together and so there is, I do think an unfair pressure put on women when they acknowledge that they are getting help or that they are working on their business.

So they are taking time away from the kids and I, as a man, have never once experienced any of that.

remarked. I saw it. What I'm not, what time I'm not spending with my kids? I was like, what? Unfair headline. I mean, listen, the headlines are headline, the headline are going to make you click on it, drop down, well done guys.

But the point is that they would never for in that arc about you, ever, in a million years.

And so it is fucked. That's fucked. It is fucked, but it also is why I wrote the book. Because unless we're honest about that, right, what I said is that I'm a three-hour mom, meaning that it's like, I really enjoy being with my kids for about three hours and then I'm like, I'm done. I like the other stand by it because it's like, that's a truth and a lot of

“moms who work full time feel like that. Saturday at lunchtime, you're like, really? Really?”

We're going to do this like, whole day now, we're working with the kids with us on a hotel. I looked at the one, I almost threw myself out the window. I was like, "Jesus Christ!" and that doesn't mean I don't love my kids, so I'm not on it. I'm not on it. I'm on it. I'm on it. I'm on it. I'm on it. I'm on it. I'm on it. It's a lot, it's a lot of kids. Keep the point on that headline. What I would also say is it's a commentary that, like, you're right,

a man would have never gotten that headline. And the second thing is people wouldn't have clicked it

if it was a man in the headline. So they know what they're doing. And it, but it's a commentary on, like, I don't see, I think it's unfair that women get put on that pressure when they're expected to build a business like a man, run a company like, "You know, I have the same results in the man." And then, say, "In by the way, you're not being as good as a mother as you can be." Because again, then we just don't have that kind of, we don't get that kind of feedback.

“True. And I think that that is, again, one of the main reasons for writing this book was really”

about dismantling some of these deeply held beliefs that exist in the culture that actually hold women back and keep women really small. And when you can untrain, I read that article, I've got the headline and my friends were enraged about it. I was like, "That's the journalist doing their job and creating clickbait." And yeah, is it unfair? Would it have been done with that? But I don't have time to spend on it, right? People were enraged in the comments on my behalf.

The point is what we need to do is not, not say those things. I will say it again to you, and again, wherever else I go, because that's my truth. And I think that is, so long as we keep shying away from that stuff, what we do is continue to perpetuate the myth that it's not okay

to actually have those thoughts and feelings when I know the reality is low to moms feel like that.

And that's okay. That doesn't mean you're a bad mom. That doesn't mean you shouldn't say it. It just means that most people are not being honest and truthful about how they feel on what it really takes. I, for what I do in my line of work, I don't know if I'm unique to me, it's a breath of fresh air. It makes me feel comfortable as a pillow to feeling, not the article. That, just, that you're so honest about it. And me, to start with myself, so I can put on my

own oxygen mask to support my children. Everyone knows I'm a huge fan of self-care.

“I always have been, and I don't apologize for that, and I think it gives women that are building”

a business, it's liberating. I feel liberated when I, when I read your content, when I see your content, I think it's all in the way you look at it, right? Are you looking? It scares me of my name. I think it's opening doors for women, and I also think you're evolving an old narrative that needs to be evolved. It needs to be evolved. It needs to be evolved. We're desperate because at the end of the day, what we want is more women in positions of power. In fact, we desperately

need more women in positions of power, but we can't do that unless we have the conversations about money, about leadership, about power. And when we set ourselves up in these, like, weird, social media and narratives that are on true and honest, we're actually just doing ourselves a disservice. And that's, I'm totally uninterested in doing that. Well, think about it. If no women spoke up, we would still be like, turning butter in the fucking kitchen. We need people

to speak up about how that would never be written about a man. We need a level of honesty about what it takes. And I think that that was the very reason for me that I decided to actually become more public in the first place because people thought that I was like a social media person. And it's like, guys, I'm in the office five days a week. When you see me at my desk, with my legs up, like, I have actually just been on a phone call. They're coming in and taking a

picture of me. And so this idea about, like, being a female boss, I already wanted to say, no, no, no, no. It's like, there is a work, there is failure, there is misery, there is hardship, there are trade-offs, there's all of this stuff that you don't get to see. And I wanted to be really honest about what it actually takes. I wanted to talk to you about that because similar to you, I was always like, I'm an ozman and operator. I've been behind the scenes,

I've always said to you this now, her for a long time. But I've always been more comfortable like running a company, riding quiet and like not having, now I've gotten obviously comfortable doing. But when you first started putting yourself out there more as front facing, what surprised you the most? Did you naturally take to it? Did you, did you feel like you still had to kind of like be in the background? Because now you're very, you have your own show, book, everything.

by accident. I'm a very intentional person. And I felt like a narrative was being written on my behalf, which wasn't the truth. It was like that I kind of like come into this country and

stumbled upon something incredible. And like data, there she is, I feel you there. And I was like,

hang about like I've had a job since I was 12. And I want to be really honest about that because I did a lot of things that were like really unenjoyable work, right? Most people work a job that they don't really like to get somewhere, that they like a little bit more before they get to do the thing that really is like joyous and pace them a lot of money. That was my journey. And so I thought if I could just be honest about that part of it, if I could show you my journey and

all the things that didn't work out for me, that that would be the better way for people to understand. Like here is what it takes. And so when I talk about my experience, that's like actually that's

“my experience. That's what I've been doing for the last 25 years. And that was important to me”

because I think that social media is set people up to somehow imagine that you can like consume your way to success. That if you listen to enough podcasts that you can be brilliant and I'm like no, no, no, no ambition has to find you working. Like there are no shortcuts. There is nothing that I've done that I can magically give to you and suddenly be like here you are like here's the success. So I just wanted to be like real about it. I just wanted to like be honest.

No, and I think it being delivered from you who's actually done all of the things in built your way up and built real companies. Again, love social media and no shade on these people. But if you're a 27 year old life coach that went viral one day and now I was a platform, I'm less inclined to take you seriously. And I think like it's it's I think people are looking for real examples of people who've come up the hard way and have done the things. I think

in what I appreciate about how you've done it is you haven't sugarcoded. We talked about it on stage at ink. You're not sitting there saying like oh it's just you're not happened and I may manifest it and I thought about it. It's like no it was getting in the gutter and getting in the weeds and doing the hard shit after that. Oh really and why really love for women is that there's so much of that rhetoric about there's so much there for women that tells them that you can

manifest in vision board your way to success and that's just never been my experience. I love

manifestation and I am a manifesto as much as the next girl but it's not without the other piece of

“it and I think what happened specifically around like female entrepreneurship is that it became”

all about being the face of the brand. It became all about you know this idea of like who's at the launch party and what is the influence of strategy and what is the market and look like I'm like guys that's the last fucking thing that's literally the last thing it almost like doesn't matter the years we had brands where they were faceless. Nameless we didn't know the founder we just got up every morning and brush our teeth with Colgate and was like that shit works and bought it

for the next 125 years. So what I wanted to explain to people is like that shit is not important. Talk to me about logistics. Talk to me about distribution. Talk to me about understanding your finances. Don't tell me that you don't understand numbers. Don't think that that is an excuse that you're not good at math. These are the things that we have to teach each other and be honest about and learn and so I was really like how to point of view to say the stuff that we are concerning ourselves

with right now is not going to make women rich. The things that we are concerned with right now is not going to create more powerful women in business but there is a bunch of other stuff that does. So let's just like talk about that. Let's orientate our stuff selves around the things that will really matter and move the needles from women. If you could waver wand and have women just do all the lists that amolists. What is that list? The list is in the book, start with yourself.

Do you know what you're going to get the book? It's beautiful. The list is about the stuff that you think. But I have this amazing friend Diane von Fustonberg. I'm not name drop in but I am.

“That's a name drop. It's a name drop. But Diane always says the most important relationship you'll”

ever have is the relationship you have with yourself. What I don't want is for women to talk themselves out of being incredible business women before they've even got out of the date and before they've even got started. And sometimes the reason that I wrote this book in the way that I did was that managing your emotions is a huge part of decision making as it pertains to business because if you are managing from a place of guilt or from a place of fear you will stop yourself before

you've even got started. So my book is really structured in this way to say to know what like

let's make sure that your biggest enemy isn't living in your own head because you'll never

get out the gate. If you're too scared to fail, if you're too scared to lose, if you really believe that you never need to be uncomfortable like you won't go anywhere because ambition requires discomfort. You're going to make a load of money. It requires that this level of audacity.

was really structured in a way as to say like have a vision for yourself and the type of life that you want to lead, figure out how to manage your emotions and then be aware of all of these rules and these old thoughts that exist for women specifically and replace them with a new fool. And if you can't do those things, you won't get out of the gate. Let's talk about one of my favorite supplements that we recently discovered in the last two years

and that is Fatty 15. I love this product so much. It is quickly become something that I take every single day and here's why. We've had the founder of Fatty 15, Dr. Stephanie Van Watson on this podcast multiple times and as soon as I heard her story in her mission behind Fatty 15, I was sold. If any of you have concerns like me about aging, making sure that you're in a pain, making sure that you're getting better sleep, really all the things that we think

about when it comes to healthy aging, Fatty 15 can really be a great resource for you. And that's

“because Fatty 15 is derived from C15, which is one of the first emerging essential fatty acids”

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our sleep, cognitive health, and metabolism. This function only leads to so many exciting benefits including deeper sleep, healthier hair, skin and nails. So check them out. We take it every single day. Fatty 15 is on a mission to optimize your C15 levels to help support your long-term health and wellness, especially as you age. You can get an additional 15% off their 90 days subscription starter kit by going to Fatty15.com/skinny and using code Skinny at checkout. AI has such potential

to increase output productivity. And for all the people that are scared about AI replacing their jobs, I am taking a more optimistic view and saying, if you use AI correctly, you can actually scale your output, secure your place in any entity, and actually get more done, which is why I love talking about granola. Granola is an AI powered note pad built for the way real people actually meet. Here's how it works. You take rough notes like you normally would, and in the background granola

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for people that are in back to back meetings, trying to stay on top of their work, making sure that they have resources to go back and remember what was said, what was done, what things need to be followed up on. And like I said earlier, if you're not thinking about using AI as a tool to increase your productivity, your output to change the way you do things so that you can operate more efficiently, you're really missing the boat. And what I also love about granola is

listen, some of these meetings can be endless and sometimes you're trying to keep track of everything that's being said. With granola, you get to actually listen instead of frantically typing every word and still walk away knowing exactly what was decided, who's doing what and what comes next. So this is an incredible tool for anyone working in any organization. If you're a student, if you're running a team, if you're part of a team, this is a great platform that you can

utilize to get even more done to stay on top of even more. We've talked about on this show

about our most important asset, which is time. You don't have to try to piece together items

or rewrite things. It's all organized, it's all done and it saves you a ton of time when you go back to review what actually transpired. So check them out. If meetings are eating up your day granola is a no-brainer, you can try it totally free for three months, just head to granola.ai/skini, that's granola.ai/skini to get your time back, get three months free at granola.ai/skini. There's a ton of focus on our food and our supplies and what we're eating, what we're consuming.

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This episode is brought to you by Zyzel. I am so allergic to cats. The worst. And I use Zyzel allergy 24 hour. Okay, if you're like me, if I like even smell a cat, I don't feel good the next day.

“So it's really important that I always have my Zyzel allergy 24 hour relief in my handbag.”

It starts working and I can tell you guys this quick. It's like in as little as 45 minutes. Zyzel relieves allergy symptoms including sneezing, runny nose, itchy, watery eyes. I hit a lot of watery eyes. And an itchy nose and throat for 24 hours. It gives you continuous 24 allergy relief that won't fade. It's also designed to be taken at night. So it's already working at full strength in the morning when pollen levels are the highest. I'm also sensitive to pollen and

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ragweed, grass, and trees. And then you also are going to get relief from those indoor allergens such as dust, mold, pet dander. Visit www.Zyzel.com for more information. That's XYZAL.com for more information. I know it's geared towards primarily women, but like this is applicable in great advice for men as well. And there's some men on this team that are like some of your biggest fans. And again, I think the things you are saying, yes, it can help

a ton of women. I know that's your primarily speaking, but it's just great advice in general. I think so because I started the book by writing what was easy to me, like building a brand,

“leadership, career, money. That the staff was like, I know this. That's what I've done for”

years and years and I've been really successful at it. And I intrinsically understand that. So that was like the starting point for me. I added those other parts of the book on because I was like, this is actually the stuff that's stopping people in their tracks. And we all know that feeling of fear. It's not that I don't get it anymore. It's just that I've learned to manage it and I've learned to use it almost as a signal. I'm like, when I'm scared, I know there's

something good there. Like, I am 100% sure that all the things that I do that are a little bit troubling to me are the things that I need to do to move myself forward. And I think that that's applicable to anyone. I've found in my goal and I were talking about this this morning, very successful people are really intentional. What are things to you that are a distraction and get brutal? Oh, I'm getting to a distraction. You know, I love alcohol and a good drink.

So I think as a kid, I really had to like stand my enthusiasm for like partying for sure. And I'm lucky that I live, you know, in LA with this. Not that much of a boy happening guys. That's be fair. Well, how did you come here? I came here nine years ago now. Okay, that's so nine years ago.

“There's still a kind of a party going on there. That's what I buy it. The party's a little bit like,”

not like a Europe, not like it. It could be so long ago. If it was a period of time, I would say it's not like here at my goal. Between 2000 and 10 and 15 were like, maybe the gold and you're the party has kind of going well. It goes quiet. I mean, you actually, they at the day here, but you know, I feel like that if you ask me what gets in my way, I love to have a good time. Like I think I'm really lucky that all my best friends are in England. And I'm not distracted constantly by like

going out or like being at a thing. Like that's helped. That's really helpful. What about my crew distractions? Meaning like, I'm just going to make this up. Like, so show. Be sure. It could be like, it could be like, it could be like a gossiping mom at school. Like, what are your my crew distraction? No, I don't think that you don't, that you, I'm saying that you have void. I'm not saying that you said I am void. I am void. So show. I have void. I have all mom groups. Like literally. That's

what I mean. No, I've got the nannies on the mum group and now you text in my place. I can't. Okay, the mum groups out here in LA are wild. I was looking at some of those people speaking of articles. I had no thoughts because I couldn't do it. I'm going to do it. They are so, listen, don't bless those mum scripts and the class moms and the whole thing. I'm like, I've got love them. Like, I just can't. Okay. So, so those are things that you don't partake in that you

think are a distraction for you for me. Okay. Absolutely. They're big distraction. And social media, you said. Yeah, because social is a tough one, right? Like, I actually, I'm such a people person. Like, I love people. I love the chat. I love the gossip. I like to know what's going on. I like the news. But to me, it's like, if it becomes like overly, it's not even about negativity. It's like, I don't like anything that consumes me. I agree. Like, I like to be in control. And so, you know,

it's like, I never got into TikTok. Like, I've tried. I think of my dad and I don't know if I've just

skull. But that just never happened to me. And I was really thinking, it's just a bad use of time.

You know, I have this trick. I turn my phone black and white. So, like, it's not just the social, it's the camera, it's the older AI apps that are on there now. This actually should never end in playground on my phone. I'm like, don't do that one. Do you know what I'm saying?

“You're phone with your ex on it. You're your dog. You're on it. Oh, that's what I'm saying.”

It's like, I don't know. It's ex. It's like the Twitter or whatever. Wow. You're, you're having a whole different, yeah. Let me be the therapist. No, no, no, no, no. No, but I, you know, we go and speak at school sometime because, you know, now and I'm sure you do as well. Like, this is a new way of doing business. A lot of these platforms of people. And what I, what my main thing to the people we speak to, which by the way, half of these schools,

we're going to look at my application that is thrown right in the trash. But I say, like,

you got to decide if this is a tool if you're being consumer. And if you're just a mindless consumer, then you're using social the wrong way. Totally. Because you're just being sucked into the endless scrolling of, you know, nothingness. Yeah. And I just said, I like the news, but I don't think that social is where you get your news from. You know, it's again. I'm very purposeful. I wake up in the morning. I read the same publications every day. But like, what are you reading this morning? You

got to tell us what you read? Oh, I'm of the boring stuff. Not the Wall Street Journal. I do actually read the Wall Street Journal. And I will continue to read the Wall Street Journal. Even if I don't love all the headlines, but you know, each to their own, they're very good. But I do. I read the F.T. I read the Wall Street Journal. I like the economists because I like to have like an outside of America viewpoint on things. I am a consumer of the news. I listen to the daily, like the New York Times.

I love that podcast one. I'm getting ready. It kind of brings you up to speed on what's happening. You run your household like a military operation. A military operation. Well, let's hear it. I want to know all the things. Well, I'm just very scheduled because when you have four kids, if you're going to have like 45 minutes in the morning together as a family, which is what I aim

“for every day, which is usually 30. But the aim is 45. You have to be scheduled. So my thing is”

that everyone needs to be at the breakfast table as 730. It doesn't matter in what state. So you might have a kid half dressed. Nobody has their hair down one shoe on, one shoe off. But it's like,

let's get there because then we all basically leave about 815. And you can have this like not

e-brec for some moment, but it's good because you're together. You're chitting and chatting. I'm checking in. Understanding what's happening. But I am up early. I wake up naturally at like 445. I work out. But I'm an early bird. I'm just wired that way. I think it was the paper route as a kid. Like I just must have been the people. I'm just like I'm an early bird. So it's like I get up early. I work out with a trainer. I get ready really, really quickly. I have like a uniform. So it's like I'm

not putting out fits together. It's like the outfits are down on a Sunday uniform. Why it's like usually look at jeans in a nice top of black pan and a nice top. You see me coming out of the elevator. I re wear the same thing all the time. Okay. So it's like I have my uniform. I go downstairs. I have that moment getting ready. I'm out the door 815. I get to the office between kind of like 830, 845 depending on the day. And then I'm just in meetings. Back to back to back all day.

But I leave every day at 5. And what that allows and what all what it creates are the conditions for everybody else to leave at 5. Because for me that like I said that bedtime, that night time routine, that's important to me. I want to book in the day and make sure the kids see me and I have a check in with them and I have that lovely little moment where they're a bit sleepy and nice and I put them down. Sometimes like all the time I go back to work. You know, I'll be back on email

or going out for a dinner. But I am really, really militant about leaving that office at 5. If so many wants to talk to me, they need to be like coming in the elevator with me. It's like there is no like 10 past 5, 5 past 5. When I need something done, it has to be done.

“And what about when, how do you run your team of employees when it comes to your day-to-day?”

Like is your assistant no certain things? I want to know more about the infrastructure of that. No, tell us. I need some tips. Everything. Okay. So the point is I have like a little lovely army around me. So I don't I mean it's really interesting. So I have an assistant who is like right by my side. So wherever I am she is and then I have somebody who's kind of you know I have like a chief of staff who is around everything like I don't manage nannies or anybody in my house.

I have somebody who kind of looks after that and then I have very, very good people in all of the companies managing every division of every company. And so I am in constant contact with each of those people. I don't run like I don't have like one company one day. I do everything all the time. That's just like how my life. And what I think when I hear that, I think that is so strategic because it gives you even more time with your children that's purposeful so you're not managing

all this stuff. To perform at the level that you want to perform at and you tell me you have someone

Yeah, I'm always trying to figure out ways that I can be more present with my kids instead of

me trying to do everything myself. Well I talk about this so much in the book. It's like you

“have to accept help. And I think what happens often is people and I mean like help from everywhere.”

I am not like I expect my husband to help but it also means that I don't you know it's like I have to check my masculine energy at the door. My job all dead is telling me what to do. I'm sure you do it very well. So it's like but it's important, right? It's like I'm not going to micromanage my husband. If he is getting a kid dressed I'm not like put the thing on, send the thing around. I'm like just like deal with the bad outfit. Deal with the child like slightly

you know more to shovel than if I've done it myself. So it's like I'm also not trying to manage people to do the stuff that I've outsourced them to do. Do you know what I mean? Like that's important. You've got to give the task away and you've got to let it go and you've got to accept like 85 percent sometimes. It sounds like I mean like I imagine similar to our relationship. Your husband knows exactly who he signed up for and what he's like. Oh I think so. I mean he would have

“got rid of me by now. No, I mean like one of them. Stephen that's like a torch. I can see sometimes”

the comments come in or like we're joking or you're not like I don't expect her to like the what she's building what she's trying to do. I know the sacrifice and the time that it takes. So I'm not sitting there and be like where's dinner on the table like why don't you like I get like what it requires. Right. So yeah we need help and similar to what you're doing like to build extraordinary things that requires a tremendous amount of energy and stuff. My favorite thing is to

postmates McDonald's friend Trias and put him in a gorgeous silver crystal face. That's beautiful. No, he's not that. He's like look at this little or get it. I did that because you know like

I would never want her to not build the things she's excited to build out to like put you know

I can I can I can postmates or go to dinner. I can hire you know I mean how is your husband center just to you? What is his what are his traits that you feel you're not as strong at and what are your traits that you saw? So many we are very very very different. Like Yens is not like an operator. He is a big picture strategy guy. Yens is like vision. He's like over arching like you know genius like guy like this. I'm like in the weeds. I'm in the stuff. I'm like

like looking at the component tree off the bar. Like I am choosing the zip. Like do you know you mean it's like I am extremely operational and like in it every day. That is just not what he does. And so we are very very very different in that way. I speak to everyone and I'm friends with everybody and I know the names of everybody and Yens is like who's that? I'm like oh dear she's been here for you know five years. Do you know it's just not what he concerns himself with.

You know he's like wow you have a lot of fun with your team. I'm like yes it's another whole point of life. He's like no my life. You know it's just very very different how we come into the work. How do you get this is another selfish question sorry but I feel like everyone like this. How do you guys manage travel with four children? Oh that's an interesting one. So we vary with very rarely a way at the same time. It does happen. I only have one family member here

in LA my amazing sister Katie Beth and when those times happen like she will come and be with our kids. I need to give her like no no it's I'm like Kate we fucked up the schedule, mean Yens like we're crossing over in New York for two nights and I need and she's like I'm there

like I'm going to be with your kids. I never ever leave them with just our mayonnaise. I mean what

do you do when you're travel with them? Oh with the children? Yeah oh with like you know it's like the Obama's are coming or something. It's like three SUVs. I don't like to not tell the truth about this. Like even when I travel I travel with my help. I travel with nannies that are going to make that easy for us because I am always working. When I get on a fly that's my work time. I'm not like chowing down on a Disney movie with the kids. Even on a family trip we just come

back from Hawaii. I worked the entire five out of flight. I find this so refreshing. Oh you do.

“I don't know if it's I think because a lot of people lie about it. I mean it's like you're right”

a lot of people lie about it and they're not honest. Yeah we can't do that to each other. No we can't it's not you're not encouraging women to accept help. If you're not honest about how much help you have. And listen I know that I have extraordinary means. It's like I have a lot of privilege but it's like when we talk about taking help that can be anything. That can be having other moms at the school help with you. That can be like you know getting a meal service in it can indeed be

you know ordering fries from McDonald's and maybe they're not going in a silver-christ off thing but you know you're still ordering the fries. Do whatever it is for you to get through the day.

to apologize for having means after working hard. Like I think like I always take issue there

because I feel if you've made sacrifices that most people won't make and you work in a way that a lot of people don't want to and you are the beneficiary of financial success because of that.

“Like you shouldn't you shouldn't have to say sorry for that. Well that's why I live here in”

America darling. Why is it in Europe? It's a lot different in listen I people talk about this all the time. It's like I often get calls from my family in Europe and they'll be like goodness what is happening in America come home darling. I don't know that I buy that right? It's like we all know the issues with America. We all understand the political climate in which we find ourselves but there is not a country in the world that I could have had this type of success in in this times

care not in Russia not in China not anywhere not even in my home country in England or any other European place. The beauty of this country is the way that it is set up and has traditionally been set up to embrace people to let you feel like you can come to America and if you work hard enough and you do a good job that you can make it like I am the living breathing American dream and I think like God the country the people here for that every single day so what we've got to make sure

is that we don't take the very thing away that makes this country which I think is like the best branded product on earth America the idea of America. We're going to make sure that we don't take away from this country like what is really really good about it and when I think about my journey I'm like how does it get better like how does it get better and then someone who comes here and can do that and to have that journey I just like I thank God every day that came here that's

well said yes and I and no very well said and you know we we have a lot of European friends and a lot of the sentiment from many of them now they don't come from generational wealth or big families is that it's just so hard to say that and one thing that a friend of ours said he's a French guy and he said in America everybody believes that you can make a bigger pie like we could all figure something out and you make something bigger and you're up everyone's very like

on your own don't want a partner don't want to they just it's a different mentality people are open for business here that's the big difference I came here and people are willing to listen to your idea they're willing to take a chance and you none of that like you know stuff that sometimes stays with you is as much as a problem here now listen we all know this country is full of systemic issues like it's undeniable but what I'm saying is for the the for the most part there is a

lot of opportunity here and if you put yourself in the right position then there is a lot of a bondage to actually being here they actually we have to stop complaining about because it's not like that in the rest of the world how do you stay humble with how much success you've had I don't I don't know I'm joking I was joking I feel like that you I've met today and the you I met I don't know if it was for a few years now it's very exciting it's it's refreshing too how do you

stay humble because I always believe that you know it's not mine you know it's like I you

everything can go away tomorrow and you always have to stay one step ahead and you always have to

“remember where you came from and you have to work really hard but I'm not so arrogant to think that”

this doesn't all go away and that something better doesn't come and take my place so I don't know I'm you know I am a really simple straightforward person like I'm me in every room I walk into and and I think that actually that's really a huge benefit to me you know it's like I don't shape shift because I don't have to I'm just me and I'm pretty consistent and I am always I'm always working that wherever I am it's like I'm always going to try the hardest I'm always going to be

the nicest I'm always going to work the most I'm always going to try to be excellent because that is what's worked for me so far so I don't see any reason to change that you know it was so crazy to me on this book tour I have met three journalists that used to work for me three three people that in some way shape or form of cost my part and worked in my companies before and it's so cool because to me it's like oh they remember me as yes somebody who had like you know insane and sometimes

impossible standards but they learned a lot for me and they liked me and I treated them well and that

“says a lot like one of the things like when you don't have much you have to understand what you”

have is your reputation like that ship means something so how you treat people how you leave people feeling that that stuff really matters so when you don't have a lot which is like where I started it's like you can take that you can take your reputation and build on it and build on it

and that you'll never lose rightly or or wrongly right and hopefully it serves you but I think the

intentions and they know I'm a good girl we all have a Lulu lemon story don't we I feel like we all can pinpoint when we discovered the brand for me it was years ago I want to say gosh that

was in like high school and I just would always go to the Lulu lemon and Carl's bad and shop in

“person and get all the different colors and the black leggings I remember I was infatuated with”

the leggings because they lifted my butt and they were just made everything look so flattered and recently I went out and I bought their drape yoga jogger okay why I'm obsessed with this is I needed something that fit a little loose and that was drapey with room to breathe because sometimes I'll go from the cold plunge and sauna straight to the gym so I didn't want something that was really tight and I found this jogger in store it's made with Rulu which is Lulu lemon's ultra soft four-way stretch fabric

and what I like about this pant you guys is it keeps it shapeware after wear so even when I wear it or I wash it it's still is like this luscious delicious buttery fabric that I really like if you're looking for something that's as comfortable as a pair of tights but with a little bit more ease and flow this is for you check out the woman's Rulu drapey yoga jogger you can't go wrong I like to wear it

“with like a tight tank I feel like it's very flattering here is the thing you need to know though”

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not pink anymore that is ice codes I wanted to do a judge on the iconic ice roller I wanted to update it this ice roller for me has always been more than just a tool it's about helping us

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skinny confidential dot com that's shop skinny confidential dot com I remember years ago Jillian Michael's came on the shows a strange example what yeah strange example look she basically was like listen like not everyone's gonna like me not everyone's gonna agree with me when I rub a lot of who the wrong way it's going to be exactly what would be exactly who she appears so that nobody's

“questioning where I stand and who I am and I think like what I think what's a struggle for a lot of”

people especially if they're front facing is there's like a facade and they try to keep it up early on time maybe they're not treating people well they're not treating their team well they're doing things behind it and then that shit comes out and it's like it's a sauce that it's a sauce that

always comes out but always comes out but when she told us that I was like okay well then like

the blueprint is like you just got to be who you are say what you think and be honest about that and you're not gonna win everybody but at least you don't have to fake it and try to keep it up totally it's not sustainable it's true writing this book you must have gotten a lot of DMs and women coming up to you what are some all thoughts that you call them that people have come up to you with all the time this happens like people imagine that you can kind of knit work your way

into some possibility you cannot like literally you cannot and this idea of like not being invited not getting you know into the right conferences not sitting on the right panels not being in the right table like it's just and it is rife in like the world of female entrepreneurship and so

“you have to understand like that is not I think like it is just not I think I also really get frustrated”

when I think about women and money and our inability to put money in the center of our plans we spoke about this when we last met but that like women that are giving their services away for free I had this lady like DM me and say every Sunday she does a Pilates she's a Pilates Instruction she does like a Pilates Instruction class and she does some for free because it's about the good vibes and the energy and I'm like what the fuck are the vibes in the energy like girl that is

your time that is your skill you have earned the right to be here and you need to judge people for it

these ideas there to be good to be a good woman we have to like you know be I don't know

like think about things in a way that is just like you know not about charging and you know it's all about the energy and it's all about what you put out it's like no one is coming to kick you out of obscurity and say I actually have a hot take I actually find and this is my own life so take it early but yeah that networking is a waste of time for me I what if I have time to put towards my business networking's not on the list well this is it so here's a thing right yes I agree with you

I think what people have mixed up is networking and building a network to get shit done yeah you don't need a network right you need the manager the agent the policies the lawyer the manager the thing the thing the thing that is your network the bank manager the vendor the factory that like

that is the network not like networking not some other bitch that's doing what you're doing

and you're putting it in the background and you're going to get the badge because got a badge don't like that's not the thing I can guarantee you if it comes over badge it's not worth your

“time let's just say that right if you have to have a badge you have to sit on the panel if you have”

to what make up on to do it forget about it like that's not the thing but your relationships your credibility your reputation like that network that you're building that's worth something because when shit hits the family my business I can call people up and go hey I need the following thing that's useful that's my network at work and that you do need to be effective in business this is why I think it's a good idea for young entrepreneurs to start a podcast because if you're

networking on a podcast at least you're also giving someone the gift of a platform and you're also yourself on your own platform making content so if you want to you I feel like there's strategic ways to network without putting the badge on yeah listen there's so many ways to do it you know I came up working for free back in the days when you were able to hire people and they were coming to work experiences for you now so valuable for me because I went around for it finding

all of the jobs that I didn't want to do but I also made a bunch of contacts and every now and again you know I will meet someone and they're like oh like I met you when you were at that PR company in the cupboard and I'm like yeah so you did and you were an asshole and by the way I'm not going to do business with you or you were really wonderful and now like thank you and I'd love to do something together so it's like there's so many different ways but let me tell you what you can't

get around you can't get around the work right you cannot get around the work that is just a prerequisite for success and there is times in your life when you are going to go like 150% and there's times in your life like you're just nine months away from having a baby where you might have to take your foot off the pedal for a few months and be like I have different priorities now your life happens in seasons your work life and your career happens in seasons and that's okay

but this idea that somehow you're going to circumvent the work and somehow I found an extra hour

“in the day and there is some unlock or some secret like that is not going to happen ever.”

I know you said like you do like manifesting but you don't spend a ton of time on it. What are your actual manifestation practice and vision board practice as Emma? Okay so I'm going to really beat this one today. Beat it today. So I think that having a vision for yourself is different from vision boarding a manifesto. So when I talk about this idea of having a vision for the type of life you want for the type of person you want to be for the type of

mom, the boss, the thing that is about thinking about what do I want my life to be? How do I run in down the vision ever? I am planning and writing it and all of the things and so the reason I'm saying yes to manifestation absolutely like imagine it but be concrete.

Don't write I want to have you know a million dollar house like figure out how to make a million

dollars. You want the systems. You've got to have the systems. You've got to have the steps and you've got to understand what it actually takes and so thinking about it, listening to all the podcast

“like going and watching it. Like that's not going to work. You have to put yourself in motion.”

You have to do the action. You've got to be that person who's going to take a little bit of risk and meet your fear and actually do the thing. That's what I mean. It's like so it's like you have to, once you've got a vision for yourself, you then got to break that down and say, well how, what next? How do I? You can't like sit there and be like, wait, because no one's coming to save you. Like literally no one is coming. Do you know what I mean?

Like no one's coming? Oh, I know. You're so cute. Oh, but that's the very idea of starting with yourself. It's like how do I activate the muscle for self leadership? How do I become the type of

not about the outside. That's about like what type of woman am I? No, but I mean like even like running a

company. I'm sure you've seen this. Somebody will come and be like, I am ready to be on the executive team, but I would like a hybrid work environment, but these are what I mean. Don't even get started on this. And I just know. But I'm not a hybrid person. But I want to look at these people and I listen, everyone should be able to do and work how they want to work. But if you're saying that you want this outcome and you're doing this behavior that doesn't map to that outcome that other

people in that role do, you can't, you're not going to manifest your way to it. No. And you're not, it's not realistic. But can we talk about it like because again, listen, we all know the comment that I said and we all know apparently it was like this terrible thing, but I want to kind of say that. I don't know where we are. We might smoke about work life balance, right? It's like

“work life balance is your problem. That's what I said. Why is that controversial? I don't know.”

I don't know. I don't know, but it is. And it was. But let's just talk about it outside of the context of just purely work, right? Because if you want to be successful proximity and visibility, is a must, right? To the decision makers, to what's happening to the pace of like the business, you've got to beat it. Like if you're not within my vicinity, you're not going to see how I move. I can't recognize what I can't recognize. I can't distinguish their face if I just meet

them on a computer. I can't do that. Are you giving them a pay rise if you can't distinguish them? No, but I can't exactly. I come in and it like it's me and I'm like, I can't, I have to see you and feel you and your energy. No, yeah. I'm not touching people. I have to be able to see That's right, I can't put your hands down. - Don't do it. - Stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop,

I mean, it's like screen blindness. When I see a million little things on a screen, and I can't, and then someone comes in, it's me, I'm like, it's hard.

But if I met you in person and spent time, it's a totally different thing. It's a totally different thing, but I want to take it away from the context of just work, because I think that what's happened in this search for balance. Which, by the way, I talk about so much in the book, it's the wrong goal. You're not actually looking for balance. And when we talk about this idea of what it means to have flexibility and work from home, of course I understand that people need to there. But if you remove yourself from like, in person life, if you're like working from your living room and you're getting all your food delivered and you're living in social media land, you take out all of the amazingness of life.

I met my husband at work. I met some of my best friends at work, and so forget this part of like getting ahead and getting, you know, pay increase.

“And like, you know, having this kind of rat race of a career, it's like, what about your life? What about the guy that you might meet in the coffee shop?”

That you're going to dress extra cute for tomorrow, because like, you're like, oh my god, maybe you'll be there. What about the little interaction that you have with the lady in the store? Like, forget about that piece. Like, we are in a moment right now, birth rates are down, marriage rates are down. There's a loneliness epidemic. I said, this whole show's to the bridge, you almost walked up the show. Oh, well, we're not going to walk off. But you know, it's like, when you think about what work and proximity gives you, it gives you a life, it gives you connection.

And by the way, every single study that's out there about longevity will tell you the number one thing that we need in life as humans for longevity is connection. So even if you don't want to go to work and be in the office, leave the house because you need people and you need people to live and you need people to thrive and you need people to fall in love with, and you can't get any of that on a fucking zoom. You know, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

I won't even go on screen on the zoom. I don't know. I'd rather meet in person. It's so much more effective. If you follow.

It's so much more effective. Yeah. It's got gallow weight at all. I love Scott. Well, young people are just not drinking as much.

No, I know. And she was saying like, yeah, we know it's bad for us. But he was saying that the doing it in the social interactions you have in the inability that comes being a young person going out is actually maybe better for you than just advocating from alcohol in general and not having those interactions.

“Oh really, what are we living for at the end of the day?”

Well, you want to be like 85 alive and miserable, it's like, I'd rather have a couple of drinks have a great time and diet 77. That's a great specific number. 77. You got before that. Let's see 97.

Whatever the number is, but it's like, you don't. Yeah, what, what how many years is that going to be? Do you do if I'm dying? Oh, that's a lot of years. That's a lot of years.

That's a lot of years. That's like 50 more to go. No longer.

A lot of all the amazing experts and celebrities and famous people that you know, because you know a lot of different people.

What is the most sound amazing advice that one of them has given you that's really resonated? Oh, there have been so many good bits.

I feel like the reason I didn't love him.

Okay, so he's like, he's the vibes. He's the vibes. Because he's the real deal.

“Like he's another person who, wherever you see Mark, if you're filming Shark Tank or I, you know,”

like bumping to him at South by Southwest or, you know, like whatever it is, a basketball game is where I usually see him. You know, where he literally is interacting with the players and the referee in real time. Oh, my God, did he just speak to the player like mid game. But Mark is someone who I find, like he doesn't change. He's such an authentic person.

And when he talks about raising money and he's cause it an obligation. There's no true a thing said. We've really romanticized what it means to go out and raise capital. And what Mark says is like, it's an obligation. Suddenly, you are obligated to somebody else.

And your company and the decisions are no longer your own. And I wish more people hurt that because, again, this idea that to be a successful business that everything has to be a billion-dollar unicorn. Like that's not so. I have friends that have like a lovely business that employ five people. They're paying themselves a good wage. And like that's an amazing company, if you ask me.

Like we've got to get out of this idea that everything needs to be like so big and so crazy. So I love Mark for that. I love Melody Hobson, who is like my girl crush amazingness.

Melody is incredible. She was the first ever episode of my podcast.

And she is this incredible. She actually runs a big private equity fund. And it does a lot of big investments, like billions and billions of dollars under management. And she spoke about when like coming into a situation with honesty. And she said that it never needs to be brutal honesty. I can give you honesty without being brutal.

“And I think that's really important because when you're building a company like everything feels so personal.”

But if you're not honest with yourself, you're not honest with the people around you, like you actually won't go very far. But there is never a reason to be nasty. And I think that when you think about like what it takes and how much you're going to need people, like being a good, a decent person, like having a high moral baseline is actually one of the most important things that you can do in business. And it really serves you because it comes back to you that over and over.

Yeah, and you learned at the order you get because you realize that if you burn your reputation down quickly, you're not going to have much longevity. You see people come and go all the time, especially in this like media space, right?

Start with yourself a new vision for work and life who needs this book.

You know, I think that so many people need it, I wrote the book that I needed at 18, 25, even in my early 30s. There's a lot of business books out there. There's a lot of business books that are written by men, not nearly enough by women, but certainly not by high school drop out to a month or four. And so I wanted to kind of add my collective perspective to the wisdom that's out there. And I really think that there's, you know, you don't have to be a woman. I think that there is a lot to gain from this book, and there's a lot of understanding to be had.

But I wanted to write something that people can use, not that they would just read. It was supposed to be something that you read a chapter, and you go out and do something with it. And that's why I care about the most. I'm like a results oriented person. I want women specifically to take this and to use it to get somewhere. So much of our audience are people who are looking to be the best version of themselves.

I would recommend this book. You guys, I know I highlighted a lot. I was bookmarking it, marking pages in my, in my addition.

“What's the addition called the before the book, The Galley?”

The paper edition. The paper. And then I accosted your team to get me a new one. Well, you got, you got to have an oily, also I know this is like random, but it really looks pretty. So it's something that you want out like on your desk. That's typical for me. I went with the publisher who wouldn't, who would allow me not to have my face on it.

I think that's very smart. I don't want it. Not that we don't let your face. I mean, you don't want my face on the book. No, I wanted it to be like, you know, you could put it on your coffee table.

And you're coffee table on your desk, it's like a sheet, you know, it's a sheet thing. The thing is done without reason. Oh, it's so. It's intention baby. Emma, three and a half times on the show.

Everyone go follow, go get your book, work and they get it. Amazon, I'm assuming what you can get it on Amazon. They can get it on emagree.com, all the places. And of course, I did the audio book, which was still the move. When people pitch their audio book and they haven't done it.

And that's that robot voice. Oh, no, like fuck that. You need my voice. You need my voice. Who could do this in this voice?

Do your kids have the accent? No. They're Americans now. They say like, wait, why? And I'm like, oh, my God.

They're like the Californians. You're going to say there's a little access. No, they're not a sausage. It's all gone. I'm the only one.

I'm just holding the accent up for the whole family.

I have to tell you guys, I love doing the podcast.

I don't want it. It's so much fun.

“And it's also like, you know, I get to ask the best questions.”

It's like, I just want to understand how everybody makes money. I'm like, tell me everything. I'm glad you launched one because I could have used your podcast. I feel like I wish you launched the podcast 10 years ago. Right?

No. It's okay, though. It's okay. It's okay. It's all meant to be.

But you're absolutely amazing.

“I'm like, it's so funny that you say that.”

Like, I love it so much. It's not everyone. Almost like the fact. It's been like an inch therapy for us. I swear because sometimes we have people on that.

We don't like, maybe we're not talking about our specific issue, but they're saying something that we're both. Yes, and you're learning and you're like, fire. And that's what I'm saying.

But I am really trying to be again, very purposeful because I want a podcast that people can come and learn from.

And that again, it's like, you, you don't get to come and promote your thing there. It's like, you've got to come to play.

“Like, I need to know how you did the thing.”

How much you spent on it. How much did you pay the lawyer? How much did you pay? No, no, no. It's like their opposite.

And it's like, if you're not ready to come and do that, then they don't come. I have the best guess and I have the most fun doing it. I told you I like the one with Kelly. Oh, we're Kelly Westa. She's amazing.

I mean, again, she has a giant giant business. And she's beautiful. And she's so talented and she's creative. Full package woman. Congratulations.

Thank you for coming on the show. We're doing it again. That was great. Third, third half. I love them all.

This one was my favorite. It was. Uh-huh. I'm happy not to, I mean, listen, we're deep in it now. I know what I'm going to have to do to get back on one day.

It's going to have to be a bit like a fifth baby or something. Let's go. I know. Guess what. It will be chic as far.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, darling.