The REAL Sausage King Of Chicago (Reheat)

Hey everyone, it's Dan here with a Reheat by Request.

Listener John Rodin and said, "I'm a long time hot Doug Span. I was looking for some history and came across your podcast on the subject but they're no longer available." Well that's right, John. Some of the really old ones are no longer available until we pull them out of the deep

freezer and reheat them as we are doing for you today. In this episode I talked with Doug Sone, aka Hot Doug himself. Now Hot Dougs was a legendary sausage joint in Chicago. It closed down but the six-month advanced notice of its closure sparked real hysteria. Not just in Chicago but it spread across the country.

They were like pilgrimagees to Hot Dougs. So why? Why would anyone wait in life for four hours for a sausage? Well you're going to listen to this episode and find out. And later in the show I'm joined by filmmaker and food writer Kevin Paying and Chef Curtis

Duffy, Kevin made a documentary about Curtis called "For Grace." All about what it took for Curtis to open his Michelin-starred restaurant. Grace. Now I should note that Grace closed in 2017 but Curtis went on to open another Michelin-starred restaurant in Chicago in 2020.

That one's called "Ever." Remember there's an episode of this pork for you guys to pull out of the deep freezer. We take requests. This one's by request from John.

“If you want to hear one send me an email or voice memo to [email protected].”

Thanks so much and enjoy. This is the "Sporkful." It's not for foodies. It's for eaters. I'm Dan Pashman.

Coming to you from the 35th annual Taste of Chicago. That was really good. Well done. Joining me now is a Chicago food legend. For 13 years, he ran a place called Hot Dugs, which was famous for its unique sausages

from rattlesnake sausage to duck sausage with truffle aoli and so much more. Then last spring, Doug announced he was closing up shop. He was ready for something new. People went berserk. Over the last few months before Hot Dugs closed, the lines got longer and longer.

A certain hysteria took hold. People were camping out. And in October, Hot Dugs finally closed its doors.

“So will we ever get to try his delicious sausage concoctions again?”

Please welcome the man behind Hot Dugs, Doug's own. The last time I saw you, Doug, it was last summer. You had announced that you were closing down. The hysteria was ramping up and for people who want to get a little bit of a feel for that there's a sportful episode from last summer called Hot Dogs and Hot Dugs when I waited

in line. And if you customers, I talk to you. It's in the feed from last summer so you can get a real feel for that. But I want to catch people up and I want to first hear about those last couple days. Those last few days were insane.

There's no doubt about it.

I would always park on Roscoe and walk down the street and there might be one or two

people before it came in every time I showed up there was a block and a half long so I started going around the other way. So I could just a little bit avoid the hysteria to get the day started. How long were people waiting in line? I would say the last week the average was like five or six hours.

Yes.

“Is there any sausage experience that can make that worth it?”

Yeah. I mean, it's, you know, it's, but it's any experience. I mean, it's up to, it's up to the person experiencing that. I mean, take me back to the moment when you locked up the doors for the last time. How did that feel?

How did that feel? It felt, I got to be honest, I was just so exhausted that it really didn't really didn't hit me for, you know, for like a couple of weeks later. I mean, just, you know, people would sort of forget that. I actually had a business to run those last four or five months and just getting something

on the menu each day became, you know, this, not struggle, but, but, but a completely different operation. You know, I've been doing this for a long time. And now it was four times busier than it had ever been. And so that took its toll.

So, so what's Malin Colley? It was satisfying.

It was, you know, I never felt regret by any stretch of the imagination.

And in some ways, it was just for me sort of this last chapter of this perfect story. What do you miss about it and what do you not miss at all?

I miss the customers. Mostly, I miss the interaction with the customer. That was my favorite part of the job. I miss the food. I forgot if really didn't think of through that if I closed, oh, I don't get my food either.

Yeah, yeah, I should have thought about that just a little bit more. I don't miss the day-to-day operation of running the restaurant. Things breaking, things not showing up. The day-to-day grind, pun intended of running a restaurant, I don't miss that. Even before you announced that you were closing, you had turned down $1 million offers

to expand. True. That is true. Now, I would imagine that when the hysteria really hit, the offer's got even crazier.

“So, without naming names, what was the most unbelievable offer that you got?”

My favorite offer, gentleman came up to the counter and said, "I'm going to make you an offer. You can't refuse."

And my response was, apparently, you've never met me because that actually is my job for

refusing offers. And he said, $1 million. And I, too, which I responded, add a zero and we'll start, I'll take the meeting. And his response was $100 million, to which I responded, "You're no longer my account, but yes, if that's the offer, then yes, we don't need a meeting just to write the check."

But there was never anything that, like, so out of, so strange that it made me contemplate anything. But you had people walking up to you, to the counter of your restaurant and offering you a million dollars. Yes.

Because that doesn't happen to a lot of people. No. And he had a normal thing. A pair, I guess not. Apparently, he was stunned, I was like, "No, when he looked at me, it's not life-changing."

And it really isn't. You know, if it wasn't enough that I never had to work a day again, rest of my life, sure. I mean, I can be bought. It's just something cheap, apparently.

So let's segue now to the present. You turn down a million dollar offers. And instead, you're starting a podcast. As someone who's been hosting a podcast for over five years, I have to say, "Are you sure you did the math on this?"

Yeah.

“You sure you don't want to open any more restaurants?”

No, no. We're good. No, the podcast, it's great. It's fun to do. You like doing it, I'm sure.

I do love it, but no one's welcomed me and offered me a million dollars. Yeah, that's not yet. You never know. I mean, it took me a while until people offered me that offer. It's a great, create about that.

It's fun to do. It's something I hadn't done before. And it's, I just have a great time doing it. And the podcast is called the Untitled Hour with Hot Dug and the Hit Maker. Exactly.

Yeah. And the radio misfits podcast network. And it's really just you guys hanging out and talking about whatever you're interested in. Exactly right.

Which is not always food, so sometimes it's a chainsaw car of totem pole.

Exactly. And it's actually usually not food. Every once in a while, it slips in, but for the most part, it's exactly right. It's subjects that interest us that we, that the Hit Maker and I like to chit chat about. One of the things that made a lot of news recently for people who are missing your

food is that you have created custom created three new sausages to be sold at really field. That is correct. Home of the Chicago Cups. Exactly.

Yes, you can share for that. That's very exciting news. The pubs. Come on. Yeah.

“And I apparently, they're going to be rotating, right?”

Exactly. Okay. So the first three, the Dave Kingman and their name after some of your favorite cup players. Exactly right. Yeah.

That was part of the negotiation. I get to name that. Okay. Making cheeseburger sausage with cola barbecue sauce and sharp cheddar cheese. Yep.

No. The Dave Kingman, the player was known as an all-in-nothing player. He had a lot of home runs and he struck out a lot. How does that relate to this sausage? I just really like Dave Kingman.

Okay. There's really no direct direct relationship between the two. But is there any correlation between the player you name each sausage after and the food itself? Not at all.

It's right. I like the sausage. I like the name. So you got to call him something. And we got one name after Rick Russel who was also nickname Big Daddy.

Exactly. My all-time favorite cup. Why? Honestly. Well, he was playing right in my wheelhouse when I started to really follow truly

follow baseball and in particular to the cubs.

And I always love the fact that a guy built like that could be a dominating athlete.

I could relate to that body type. You know, basketball players, most football players like no. But Rick Russel, you absolutely is like, oh, I could aspire to, you know, that. And that was it. And he was like, he was their best player when I still really started loving the cubs.

And now you got the next best thing to be a star pitcher for the cubs. You have your sausages featured in the cubs. Exactly. Right. And I get a little pass.

I get to go in any time I want. Whoa. Exactly. That might be better than a million dollars. Thank you.

See, I was holding out for the right offer.

And I pitch you on a couple of other sausages. By the way, I see what you did there. Why? The pitch you. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, see? I'm here for you. No problem. They're right themselves. Yes, hit me with it.

I want one named after Steve Goodman. No. No. I don't know. Do you know the connection?

Steve Goodman. I can't remember. Steve Goodman is not a player. He's a singer-songwriter from the '70s and early '80s. That's true.

Group in Chicago he wrote "Go Cubs Go" and "Dying Cub Fans" last request. That is true.

And he never lived to see the Cubs play a playoff game.

He was supposed to sing the National Anthem at the first playoff game in 1984, but died at a very young age. Yeah, right before that game. So his friend Jimmy Buffett filled in and sang the National Anthem in his stead. How's that?

That's pretty great. Do you know that he's also my stepfather? Are you serious? Yeah. How about that?

We're revealing this little known fact. Yeah, my mom married his dad when I was like nine years old. Tell me about him. He was awesome. It was great.

“It truly, like, great moments in my life is sitting at the Chicago Recording Studio.”

And so I was probably in high school like 16, 17 years old watching, Steve, and John Prime, and all the players recording albums. Yeah. Like, you know, till my parents were gray, like, midnight one o'clock in the morning, hypnotized sitting on the sofa in the control room, watching, like, this magic happening before me.

So yeah. No, I mean, there's a big age difference. We weren't super close, but yeah, no way. No, that's amazing. Well, this is the, then you have a very good reason to name one after Steve.

Absolutely. We'll sneak one in there. Two more quick ones. I want to pitch you on before we go before you go. Sure.

Antonio Alfonseca. He was a really pitcher for a short time with the cubs and has six fingers on each hand. And that's right. Again, you got some roub up here.

I know it's going on.

“And do you, because of his extra finger, do you know what his nickname was?”

Oh, you might have me there. His nickname was Poole Poe, which is Spanish for octopus, that's right. So octopus sausage. We will. For Alfonseca.

You know, at some point here, I do have a cell something, but that's all right. And finally, I think there should be one called the Mark Prior.

And that would be a sausage where, like, the first two bites are amazing.

And then the whole thing disintegrates into broken dreams. Exactly. And then, like, and then, like, years later, we just have a simulated hot dog that kind of really dug fouls as well. All right.

A dog's zone, formally, of hot dogs, his new podcast is called The Untitled Hour with Hot Dug, and The Hitmaker, it's available now. Go take a listen. Big hand for a dog's zone. Thank you.

Enjoy the toast. Thank you so much. Thank you.

“Coming up, our live show from Chicago continues.”

I'll ask one of the top chefs in the world to tell me his favorite candy bar. But first, oh, man, I still just can't believe that hot dog is related to Steve Goodman. I just really, really love Steve Goodman. He also wrote City of New Orleans, which was recorded by Willie Nelson among others, and

you never even call me by my name, which was made famous by David Allen Coe.

Steve Goodman passed away at age 36. He died of leukemia back in 1984. And as we go to break, let's listen to a little of his classic Chicago song, "A Diann Cub Band's Last Request." It's a song he wrote toward the end of his life.

And it's just about one of the saddest, funniest songs you'll ever hear. Give everybody two bags of peanuts in a frosty mall, and I'll be ready to die. No, the big fire on home played out of your Louisville's Lugger Baseball Batson, toss my coffin in, let my ass blow in a beautiful snow from the prevailing 30 mile an hour southwest wind.

When my last remains go flying over the left field wall, we'll bid the bleacher bombs a dude, and I will come to my final resting place, out on Waveland Avenue. The Diann man's friends told him to cut it out, and he said, "Stop it, that's an awful shame." He whispered, "Don't cry, we'll meet by and by.

Near the heavenly Hall of Fame," he said, "I've got seasons tickets to watch the angels now." He said, "It's just what I'm going to do." He said, "But you, the living, you're stuck here with the cubs, so it's me that feels sorry for you."

And he said, "All plate, plate out of all some losers too." I said, "When I like the best, close designs and slip away, this guy here was the Diann cuff band's last request. Here it is." They still play the music song, when they fall to the ground, when the snow melts away.

When I wasn't born, they were my pride and joy, but it's not only bravery to the home

of the brave. I'll have a free and a torn band, I'll attach them all the time to cook up some advertisements. Time to cook up some advertisements. Welcome back to another spoke full reheat, I'm Diann Pashman.

“Hey, if you want to hear what I'm eating and reading every week, you should sign up”

for the spoke full newsletter. I'll give you my weekly recommendations and so-to our producers and the whole rest of our team. We also share announcements about exciting things happening with the show, when there's special discounts on my post and at the top of all that, if you subscribe to the news

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Again, that's spokefull.com/newsletter.

Thanks. Now, let's get back to the spokefull live on stage at the Taste of Chicago. I'm right along, excellent. There's an old saying that if it isn't hard, it's not worth doing. From a young age, Curtis Duffy said out to become one of the greatest chefs in the world.

Over the years, he sacrificed almost everything to make it happen, including his marriage. He's now the chef and owner of Grace right here in Chicago, one of only 12 restaurants in the whole country that has three Michelin stars. I love, by the way, that here on the spokefull, we're segueing from hot dug to Grace, one of the best restaurants in the country.

We covered all here. Curtis Duffy is the subject of a documentary by Chicago Tribune Fugarette or Kevin Peng, the film is called For Grace, please welcome Kevin Peng and Chef Curtis Duffy. So, Kevin, I'll start with you.

You're best known as a writer and a particular Fugre writer.

How did you end up making a film? That is a very good question. I don't know anything about filmmaking. I studied broadcast journalism at college at USC and I only stopped studying broadcast journalism when someone said, "Oh, you don't even have to have the face for radio."

And I thought, "Wow, what a terrible thing!" I did a TV show, like, six, seven years ago, I just went around the city and ate cheeseburgers for a for an entire year, essentially, and so I, after that was done, I wanted to do something a little bit more proper, a little bit more mature, more grown up. I was trying to look for some short film project, maybe 15 or 20 minutes, and then I knew

about Curtis, and I invited him out to lunch in Chinatown, in fact, and we were just talking about the idea of creating a dish. That was the original conceit was. I wanted to make a short film about how a chef of his caliber creates a dish and how and sort of the mind processes of that.

And it was at that point where he told me, "You know what, I'm also leaving avenues, which was the name of this prior restaurant, and I'm going to be opening up my own restaurant." And I thought, "Hmm, perhaps I should ask him if we can follow him around for a few months as he built this restaurant, and a few months only what lasted four years?" In the end.

Four years later, you had a full-length movie. Yeah, four years later, we had a documentary, exactly. Which is, by the way, a debuted itself by Southwest. It's been playing at festivals all around the country to raid reviews, and one of the recurring

“themes in the film is the sacrifice that you have to make to become one of the top chefs”

in the world, and how all-consuming it's been for you, Curtis. There's just not room for other things in your life. And so I wanted to kind of test that thesis statement of the film a little bit with a little pop quiz for you. Sure.

Let's see how all-consuming your work at your restaurant is. What's the last movie you saw on the theater? Four, grace. Great answer. Great answer.

Good answer. What about before that? Wow. I don't know. Honestly, I don't remember.

Right. Because you're working. Exactly. Right. How are the clubs doing this year?

No idea. Let me ask Doug. Where is he? Who is the president of the United States? I don't know.

Kennedy? Yeah. No. So it's a face to say, you're very focused on the task at hand, and that's one of the things in the film.

“I love watching the building of the restaurant and some of the details that are so important”

to you. We talk so much about details here on this pork full, you get into the details of furnishing the restaurant.

What kind of table cloth and why?

“Well, originally it was supposed to kind of wrap underneath the table, so it would expose”

the leg going down to the floor, so it looked like a beautiful range off when it hits the ground and it kind of explodes back up. I wanted that moment. Unfortunately, we weren't able to find somebody to make those table cloths. So we're still searching that, it's actually still on the drawing board for us.

Just to give you a sense of the type of session that these guys, these guys were finding chairs that were originally, well, the one at the restaurant now, it originally costs $2,300 per chair, and they negotiated that down to $1,000 per chair. This is the discount price, and so after you buy a hundred, the just the chair furnishing alone costs $100,000, which is completely nuts.

So, what was it about these chairs? It was everything. Everything that we made, everything that we decided to put into the restaurant was for the guest.

It was about giving the best experience possible, and that starts with the materials at

hand. Everything that you're going to sit down for two-and-a-half hour, a dining experience, everything has to be luxurious, including the linen, including the chairs, the bathroom. Whatever it was. And I have to say those chairs are the most comfortable chairs, I've ever sat on.

So, if you don't like to be for that price, go to the restaurant just to sit at those chairs. Just order the house salad. You have that right? The restaurant?

Yeah. Yes, we do.

“Has anyone ever spilled something on one of the chairs?”

Yeah. Yes, they have. It's fine. You know, we've take great care and clean you know, but we've had a few that are ruined already, so.

There's a story about a sort of lady who had some tanning. She came in with tanning lotion on and sat in the chair for two and a half, three hours. And left. And you can imagine what that did to the leather chairs. Her nice, beautiful, butt-print on it, and her legs.

And then there's no way you're getting it clean. We couldn't clean it for anything. So what'd you do with a chair? It's an employee lounge. Yeah, with someone's butt-print on it.

Exactly. Because I mean, I just got new chairs in my living room, and they did not cost a thousand dollars each. But I already want them. My kids bring juice in there.

Of course. So I don't know how you stand it. I would drive me crazy. Coming up Curtis and I talk about the lessons he took from his parents and the personal sacrifices.

He's made in order to build his culinary career. That's coming up. Stick around. Oh, if you're hungry, because it's time for some ads. Welcome back to this forkful.

I'm Dan Pashman. Now, back to my conversation with Chef Curtis Duffy and food writer Kevin Payne. The turning point in the film comes when we learn of a real tragedy that took place in your life, Curtis. But we don't need to get in all the details of it here because it's handled very powerfully

in the film. There's a PG crowd here. But so if I said to say that even before that tragedy, you had a rough go and growing up.

“What role did that play in your setting out to become one of the greatest chefs in the world?”

I think one of the greatest things that my parents gave me was work ethics. Because I watched them struggle going through job after job, working two or three jobs at time just to put food on the table and I think taking that from them and having that focus and dedication and knowing that's not the way that I wanted to live drove me and put me in a position where I wanted to be and where I needed to be.

And I mean, you talk openly in the film about how your devotion to your work probably was a big part in breaking up your marriage. Are there days that you've questioned whether it was worth it? I think everything happens for a reason. You know, yeah, I think it was worth it, absolutely.

And I mean, you're, on one hand, like I'm so inspired by the fact that you set such high goals for yourself, you say, I want this to be the best restaurant in the country, period. But on the other hand, like, that's such a hard thing to accomplish. I mean, you're already one of 12 in the country with three Michelin stars, that's an extraordinary accomplishment.

Do you think you could ever get to a point where you would feel like have some part of you could put your feet up and be like, I made it, I did it. No.

No, because I feel like we're always in a place where we can always refine.

We can always be better in everything that we do in every aspect of our lives. And that even leads to my personal side, right? I sacrifice so much on my personal side to make greatness in what I do in the food world. And that was time to learn to let go a little bit on the professional side so I can have

We got to wrap up, but I want to finish on a little bit of a lighter note here.

Curtis, it can't be African blue basil all the time. What are some of your food guilty pleasures? Wow. Purple basil. Oh, what a shepfy answer.

I'm a candy guy. I love twizzlers and woppers, and anything sweet, I love pizza. I love everything. I'm a foodie. Kevin, I know you're a big fan of hot dugs.

I know you're a big admirer of Curtis's work at Grace.

Is there a fusion dish between the sausages that hot dugs and the food at Grace that you

might be able to envision in your wildest dreams that could cause the

“entire Chicago restaurant scene to fold in upon itself and disintegrate?”

We're talking about folding onto itself and breaking the space time continual. Okay, so let me just work this out in my head. And you have 30 seconds. Go.

Okay, there's like Curtis's food is really sort of like multi-dimensional, very architectural. And there's a narrative arc, so there's like time factor involved. Hot dugs is about stuffing your face with vlog rod and sausage and very visceral things. How about if you're able to serve me a vlog rod duck, saw turn hot dog yesterday?

Nice. Curtis, get your work. I'm on it. I'm on it. All right.

Guys, the film is called Four Grace. It's at various film festivals. It'll be available streaming soon.

“Keep in touch with the film and figure out where you can see it at Four Grace Film.com.”

Big hand for Kevin Paying and Chef Curtis Duffy.

When I first met you, you fed me on chicken and wine.

It was steak and potato and baby I sure felt. But now all you give me is the seaweed and the alfalfus bread and sunflower seeds and I got my dugs. It leaves left me here with the chicken cart on blue. So that's part one of our live show from Chicago.

One quick note about hot dugs. Two of Doug's former cooks have opened up their own place in Chicago with Doug's blessing. It's called Hot G-Dogs, it's an uptown. And they have a lot of the same food that they headed hot dugs. The scoop from the chips Kevin Paying is not quite as good as hot dugs, but it's still

really good. This shows a production of WNYC and the Sports Fulz produced by An Sannie and me. We got production help in Chicago from Maya Goldberg's safer and in New York from Tim Regeri. Special thanks to Paula Schumann and thanks to everyone at the taste of Chicago, especially

Mary Slowick, Mary May, Alex Halley, and Ed Silla. Let's go out with a little more Steve Goodman. This is Chicken Court on Blues. Until next time, I'm Dan Pashman. I'm Jamie Edelman from Las Vegas, Nevada, reminding you to eat more, eat better and eat

more better. Don't you see that old dog standing out in the street with a big smile on his face because they let him eat meat and I got you and I got the chicken. This reheat was produced by Gianna Palmer, the team that produces the Sports Fulz today includes me along with Managing Producers, Emma Morgan Stern, and Senior Producers,

Andreys O'Hara. Our engineer is Jared O'Connell, music help from Black Label Music. The Sports Fulz is a production of Sirius XM Podcasts, our executive producer is Camille Stanley.

“And hey, did you know you can listen to the Sports Fulz in a Sirius XM app?”

Yes, the Sirius XM app has all your favorite podcasts, plus over 200 ad-free music channels curated by genre and era, plus live sports covers, your podcasting app have that, and there's interviews with a list stars and so much more, it's everything you want, and a podcast app, and music app all rolled into one. Right now, Sports Fulzers can get three months free of the Sirius XM app by going to SiriusXM.com/Sportful.

Until next time, I'm Dan Pashman.