Does Pogačar's Vuelta Decision Hurt His Chances of a Worlds Title Defense? | THEMOVE+

three grand tours in the pocket. He made it a great, great tour to France, of course. We have seen that. I've heard actually today, today I was with somebody who has been working with UAE in the past as a staff member there and still has good contacts with some of the

staff members. And apparently the last week we got child was never, never going full gas

of the tour de France. So he was basically trying to nurse the autotodepodium and already thinking about the Delta. Everybody, welcome back to the move plus I'm Spencer Martin. I'm here with the O'Honbraniel.

“We're, we haven't talked and spoken to each other. I can't, I don't remember how to speak. We haven't”

spoken to each other in a little while, Johann, but we will catch everyone up on what has happened in men's professional cycling since we've, last had a show. Before we get into that, though, we, we need to mention the extremely sad news that Finlay Tarling from the NSN development team,

just 19 years old, unfortunately died at the Volta Portugal today, following a series accident that

occurred during stage eight of the race, where he, at least as far as we know, collided with an oncoming car that was not part of the race convoys. So obviously a horrible mistake was made at some point. It's something that, obviously, this is terrible, but it is just something that's happening seems to be happening far too often in professional cycling. We've had too many young riders pass away from dangerous course conditions. Johann, what do you have any thoughts on this before we get into

the show? Well, I mean, it hits hard, especially Spencer. I have a young son who races these

“17s or he's only two years younger than this guy. And it puts things in perspective, right?”

I mean, what can be worse than this unfortunate event of today, the accident in a race where things are supposed to be traffic free. Obviously, I don't know, not the details, but from what I can gather, was an upcoming car. I don't know if that car ignored the instructions of whoever was blocking the traffic, but as a rider, you're in a race and you assume that you have a three road in front of you. So, I mean, I can only imagine how hard this is. This is this is terrible news

for the world, for the family, for his friends, for his team, and for the whole cycling world. So, my thoughts and prayers are with them. It has happened in the past. And so, obviously, more needs to be done to try to prevent this, but unfortunately, there's these are accidents. I'm pretty sure, I mean, obviously, from a distance and knowing what I know, this is going to be the fault of the driver, because it's impossible that he can be on the course without having ignored

the signal that's supposed to block the traffic. So, yeah, I mean, I'm speechless, speechless. And, you know, this podcast obviously means nothing prepared to decide news. We just learned just before recording this. So, maybe he rest in peace, younger brother of Joshua Tarling. I mean, it's, you know, Joshua Tarling is a really young rider. And he has a younger brother that just passed away today. He's just a horrific news. Yeah, I cannot imagine what he's going through.

Heart goes out to him. That's terrible. Yeah, it hits home when you think about how young Josh Tarling is and that is younger brother is passed away. It's, it's awful. I, I'm at a loss for words. Don't even really know what to say. Can't imagine going through that. I mean, do you think, is there any learnings from this? Or is it just going to be business as usual? Just like, carry on. I hope this doesn't happen again. Probably will, though.

Yeah, that doesn't seem like anything ever gets safer. I just saw, I mean, I didn't see

“meant that they obviously, they canceled the day stage after the accident. There's, I think there's”

two more stages left Saturday, Sunday. The initial reports that I see is that the race is going to go on. I'm going to keep going. So, I don't know if that's the right thing to do. If the Peloton has, you know, has the energy and the mental toughness to keep going to report to those hard race and there's two really hard stages. So, I don't know, man. I don't know what the right thing to do is, as I said, accidents do happen. I remember long time ago, you know, I experienced

first-hand the unfortunate accident of Fabio Casertelli in the Tour de France. I was actually

finish line with the happen. Then then they after the race was neutralized and then the race went on.

“So, I don't know what's going to happen. And, you know, I don't know what what the solution is.”

To me, it looked like Tour de Portugal was a well organized race. You know, unfortunately, you can have a really good organized race and an unfortunate incident happens and you can have a shitty organization and nothing happens. Yeah, that's a very good point. Yeah, it's a difficult one. It's a difficult one to make to judge. Yeah, it is a little weird to me that the race is going on.

But, I mean, if you think about, I don't know, I guess the Munich Olympics, there was a terrible,

terrible, multiple murders of athletes and they continued with the Olympics.

Yes, Pennsylvania, but we're all in the meantime, we're several tens of years later. You know, things to check. Well, imagine this, though, like, at the World Cup, let's say a player was like, mode down by, you know, I don't know, like, a lawnmower in Fentino would keep that thing going. Yeah, they're not stopping the World Cup. So, the biggest event, yeah, I mean, if you look at the bigger events, the biggest events, you will not stop the two of the friends, you will not stop

the Olympics, you will not stop the World Cup because it's just too big of a business and, you know, they'll have some kind of action taken, you know, and everything is, is, you know, in context, I don't know what's going to happen with the two of Portugal. I would say, you know, so close to the finish, that's just all go home. That's just, you know, nobody can be in that right. I agree. Yeah, you know, yeah, I guess we don't know. We don't know what they're going to do. Maybe

they don't do the race. They, they could decide that tonight. Maybe they didn't have the ability to make that decision so quickly after the news came out, but that gets there. There wasn't

“an NFL game recently where a writer, or, sorry, a player, I think medically died and then”

was brought back was resuscitated back and they did cancel the game. So there's precedent of that happening, even at the top level of sport, but I hope they don't continue the race. I think I know, I think you're right. I don't think anyone's going to be in the right headspace. It just seems like the right thing to do, especially with two, two days left. Yeah, we'll see what they will see what happens. But it's hard. It's hard. It's hard to segue out of this, but for the rest of the show,

we're just going to run down a few, a few items that have had the racing updates, news items that have happened since we've last spoke. The biggest of the Miohan being the news that Titipagachar is doing love volts aspania. I believe you said this on the tour show or the tour, the move plus during the tour, you said that the Prince of Monaco said he was doing it, turned out the Prince knew what he was talking about. And he is doing it. Are you surprised by this? Some people,

some people said, well, the Prince has said that he will be at the start of the Vuelta. And then people said, yeah, of course, he'll be there. He lives in Monaco. But, you know, if if then afterwards you hear the interview of Pogachar when he was confronted with, because Pogachar didn't know that Prince Albert had said this. And he was confronted with it after the stage. And

“he said, well, if that's what the Prince said, I think I will be there. You know, so”

yeah, I mean, I think I think it's a huge announcement, Spencer. It shows that he absolutely wants to have those three run tours in the pocket. He made it a great, a great tour, the Prince, of course, we have seen that. I've heard actually today, today I was with somebody who has has been working with UAE in the past as a staff member there and still has good contacts

with some of the staff members. And apparently the last week, Pogachar was never, never going

full gas of the Tour de France. So he was basically, you know, trying to nurse the total to the podium and already thinking about the Vuelta. Kind of makes sense and retrospect. And, you know, if you think about the last week of that tour, he was definitely holding back and it's kind of crazy to think that he was preparing for a different grant tour during the grant tour. He kind of did the same thing in the zero that he did before the tour. So he clearly knows what he's doing. I

Lance was quite a loss for where he couldn't believe this because in his mind, he's like, why are you not going on vacation? What are you doing? But if you think about it, well, his season's not done. He wants to win the World Championships. He wants to win Lombardia. He's got, he can't

World Championships? I, you know, I mean, I think there's a different way to look at this

Spencer in terms of, is this good training for professional cyclists? And then is this good training for Bata? It's a different point. Yeah, a different point of view. I don't exactly know yet who's going to be at the start of the of the Vuelta, but it looks to me like, probably the biggest

“contender for Pugachar in the Vuelta is going to be Felix Cal. I think, based on what we've seen”

in in the zero and then based on what we've seen in the tour of Burgos, Pugachar doesn't need to be in top shape to win the Vuelta. He's going to win the Vuelta. If nothing, if there's no accidents or no unfortunate events happening, Pugachar wins the Vuelta. So I think he wants to win the three, the three round tours. I think it makes sense. It fits in his schedule. He's feeling good. He didn't do the zero. He was very selective in his races, in his classic races and his build up

towards the tour of France and still field great. And and on top of that, I have also learned from people who are close to him that he's just a guy who loves the right, his bike and race. Some people say, he's not chasing records. He's not chasing stats. Personally, I don't believe that 100%. He has, he has. I think he's checking off the list. Otherwise, he would not, there are other ways to prepare the end of season, especially after the springy had the tour he had.

The tour is tour Spain. It's still three weeks of racing, right? And it's not easy. Even if you're Taday Pugachar, it's it's wearing you out. It's going to be hot. If you look at, I mean, we're going to talk about the Vuelta in a few weeks. But if you look at the map whereas the Vuelta last year was all in the north, I live in Madrid. So I live in the center of the country. Last year was all north of Madrid. This year is all south of Madrid. I can't believe they've

“done that. They started Monaco, and then they go to Nora, I think, right?”

But the endore of finish on stage four. But then the majority of the stages is all south of Madrid. From Valencia down towards Granada, which is crazy and it's going to be unbelievably hot. July was hot. Imagine what's end of August beginning of September in the south of Spain. Well, here's my zag on that, though, Johan. We're going through the singing Europe where you look at the start of the Vuelta next week in Granada. It's not starting in Granada. It's

going to fish in Granada. I'm just looking at Granada. We're looking at Encelcius. We're looking at 31 degrees. That's a cold day in London. That's pretty good. So that's pretty good. You know, maybe going to the south of Spain is the best place for the race. It's going to be cooler than the

“cold weather places. Yeah, it's the world upside down. But anyways, I think Pugachar is, of course,”

he's the big favorite. Normally he wins the Vuelta, bring the bringing a strong team. Yeah, I think it's interesting. I think it's great news for the Vuelta. You know, it's the Vuelta.

You know, typically is the third Grand Tour. It's kind of the Tour where riders gather who have

not been great in other races and have to kind of do their exams again, right? It's a retry. It's also funny for the race, but that it is what it is. The Giro is the first Grand Tour of the season. The Tour is the Tour of France. And then whoever has, whatever has, somebody left is going to the Vuelta. So yeah, Pugachar's winning. I think second is going to be Felix Gallo. In my opinion, then I don't know about that.

Yeah, you'll see, but I don't know if we should. I, so I have another pick for second, but we'll talk about it with you. I think only I think I mean, I haven't looked at the root close enough. I should probably study the root closer, but I liked to see how only came out. Yeah, that's all. It's a tough injury. He had only makes sense because he's fresh, right? And he's getting motivated. And it's like, this is his big goal of the year, you know?

Felix Gallo has already, you know, he was second. He was second in the Giro. Highlight of his career.

He's still in good shape, but you know, he doesn't have to save his season. Only needs to save his season. So that might be, yeah, that might be makes sense to put only up there. Yeah, plus he feels goal is surprisingly consistent, though. Yeah, you, you wouldn't really

at the Giro. What can come into play also is that Felix Gallo has already signed a really,

really lucrative deal with little track for the next three years. So, you know, when it comes to motivation,

“it doesn't really need to unless he has a smart agent, which I think he has, who has calculated”

bonuses in his new contract based on the results of the next well-taspagne. That could be a great motivation. Interesting. Yeah, instead of he could, the downside is he could be up late at night on like Zillow looking at his new house. And, you know, my work day is going to buy with this new contract. I don't think Felix Gallo's that kind of guy Spencer. I don't think Felix Gallo. I mean, he might not, again, we should probably study the rule of closer because he's a very,

the Giro route was great for him. I don't know if I feel like the vault is better for a guy like only. But again, you know, we are rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. Like these guys are going to be fighting it out for a second. Yes. I think you're right, the Pagachar. I think they're going to do the Visma strategy for the Giro where they just circled four days, where they ride hard on those four days. And when the race basically and just plan Pagachar's training for the

world around the Volta, and if he doesn't crash, it's hard to imagine. Yeah, winning, right? Yeah,

“I think so. And it's crazy that so he, there's eight riders to win all three grand tours in their”

career. Jock, Ankateal, Fleecho, Fleeche, Jamandi, Eddie Merks, Bernardi No, Alberto Contro, Vincent Bonibule, Chris Froome, Jonas Findigarde. He would be the second rider this year

to do it. Yeah, that I don't believe has ever had. That's pretty crazy. He never happened.

That's never happened. And then even if you think when you became a professional, four riders had done this, when you retired from being a professional, four riders had done it, and then since then, we could have five riders doing pretty crazy. How often it happened, actually. Well, that's also done a few years. I'm getting. Yeah. Well, I think it was content on you, were you managing him when he did that? He won his first three grand tours with me. He won. Yeah, he won the Tour de France in 2007.

He won the Chiro and the Vuelta in 2008. And then he won the Tour again in 2009. Yeah. And then in 2008, we don't even, catheter's career is, you start to lose your mind, because there's a difference between what you watched, and then what is technically

“tallied up? Yeah. But I think he's got it. I think he, are we an agreement that he kind of has to”

do this? He has to win all three. Well, yeah. And there's no time like the present. Mine's well, do it, right? How is it to himself, I think? And I think I said already before, you know, I think that this year is probably the best year for him to do it because the world needs less specific preparation than the next few World Championships. You know, I think, you know, obviously he's the strongest rider in the world. He can win on any course. But if there's, if there's a

course of the last three or four years, well, I actually know because Glasgow was one of the Puhu won, right? And then, yeah, from the Puhu won. But anyways, Kigali and Zurich were kind of hard, very hard. Montreal, I think the world's, of course, Puhu gotcha's going to be the favorite, and especially because the World Championships, a part of the course, you have the distance, right, which makes it incredibly hard. Any World Championships with some kind of elevation

is incredibly hard because of the distance. So, but it's also accessible to other riders. No of other pool, well, one art, other riders, I mean, there's not that many. But they, yeah, there's like five riders probably. Yeah, but he can't match Rampco. Rampco can be really good at it. It's also

really good. I mean, it's, it's Rampco Van der Poel, wow, Pugachar. It's the same guys always.

Oh, it may be one other. It's basically the tour of Flamesh contenders. Yeah. And then most likely, most likely he will win, but next year World Championships is a World Championships that Pugachar cannot lose. He will not lose that. Yeah. It's so hard. Yeah. And but it needs specific preparations. Oh, if he goes again for the tour, which probably wants to go to the tour again, then I would say, it's probably better you don't do the Vuelta and you do specific training

for the World Championships. Because in Salash, that course is just incredibly hard. Yeah. And then yeah, so that makes sense. And then 2020, eight, we have the Olympic Games, which I don't think so. I can't say the ball time. He wants to do the Olympic Games. So, so yeah, I mean, but it's still not clear what's going to happen with the, with the dates there

because the tour may, well, they have to change their dates. For the tour, just released their dates for this. Well, two weeks early. We'll see. But the tour doesn't control the UCI schedule,

right? Like how's this year? I'd feel about that. Spencer, the tour first doesn't control

the IOC, which is what we have to have in mind for the, for the, for the 2020 issue. No, the cycling in the, in the Olympic Games does not depend on the UCI. It depends on the IOC. And then every international Federation comes in for their specific sport. But the overall organization is way above UCI in an ASL.

“Why would this be different than a normal Olympic cycle, though? Is it just the distance?”

Because in what 2024 it was Paris, so it was easy. It was just the week after the same thing with London. There was just one week in between. I don't know. I don't know exactly what happened, but I think, I said, yeah, I don't have the details in front of me now, but I think there's some collusion and the dates with the Olympic Games on the tour of France. Interesting. Interesting. Okay, all right, we'll put that on the desk for the winter time, because we're going to need something

to talk about. But let's take a quick break. And I think we both feel pretty confident. Tatta forgot you're just going to be the favorite for this welta. Is he getting paid to do this, Johan? I don't think so. I don't think so either. I don't think so. Yeah, it's ASL, ASL. I mean, the Gerald does pay riders. I'm pretty sure. Oh, there's Bobby. Bobby's Bobby. He just came back on the scene. Bobby wants to check for me. So I want to go back. But yeah, so ASL typically doesn't pay any

starting fees for riders. The Gerald does. So I'm going to guess that he doesn't get paid for this. It is big for the vault of the to have. This is got to try. They're doing it. It's huge. Huge.

Can be a flat grand tour. And I'd say the route designed in the last few years is not been amazing.

Not been the most inventive. So this is huge for the race. Let's take a quick break. And we'll come back and talk about a bit of racing that we've missed and then some interesting transfer rumors, like Prima's Rockledge potentially going to intermarch a lot of what's going on with that. But we'll be right back. Everybody this episode is brought to you by gusto. When you run a small business, you don't just do the job. You're also the hiring manager. The payroll department,

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we've missed. I've been away. It's actually been some of my favorite racing of the season. The racing we've not been talking about, we had just to run down what we missed. We had Volta Burgos, one by Felix Gaul over Oscar on the super thrilling race, came down to seconds, came down to the time bonuses on the final stage about a really tough climb, but Yohan's son will be racing and a week or so. We also said the tour of Poland, a world tour of race, why is the tour of

Poland? Just kind of an odd race to me that it's a good race, looks like a beautiful country.

The fact that it is technically the biggest race of this block is always a little confounded to me.

One by Marco Brenner, another pretty interesting race actually. Time trial in the last day, Brenner's take close enough, brought it home, brought the overall win home in the final day. We're the tour of Denmark, my personal favorite here. While Van Art wins the first three stages of the race, and the overall looks incredible, looks like he's going to do a lot of damage at the Volta. If you remember the last time he was at the Volta, he was in the green jersey on pace to when

the KOM jersey and then crashed out when he went down on that rainy day and slashed his knee open.

“I think we could be looking at him basically getting revenge and finishing off what he didn't”

finish off at that Volta. Based on the form we saw, we saw it. I just want to call out quickly on the tour of Denmark. Storm, Ingraham Britsson from Inox Mobility, not related to the runner. He wins stage four in an unbelievably impressive solo break away. Like, the, you could tell these and I didn't want to catch them because they didn't want the time bonuses up for grabs. So the Bisma was not chasing, but the Peloton was right there. He just went solo from the break

and in one and I believe it reminded me of a tour of Norway stage in 2025 when essentially he did the same thing and held off Matthew Brennan to win. He is only 21 years old, huge engine. Keep an eye on that guy. That was a really impressive win. And then the check tour is happening right now. We've had two stages. One and two, both one by Americans. We had Riley Shihan win stage one with an impressive sprint over Ben Turner of net company Inox and then today net company Ino's gets revenge

“with AJ August getting his third win to the season. I believe. And winning stage two on the”

uphill finish going into the overall lead. Archie two of Norway. We are two stages in Unox Mobility wins their home. They have to win at least the stage. Probably the overall this race. They won today on stage two, but they lost stage one to Giovanni Lennardy from Polty Visit Malta. Big win for that team. And if Lennardy sounds familiar it's because he was second on stage 21 at the Giro de Tia,

a pretty pretty good little springer that you wouldn't always think of. But I'd love the

archie tour of Inox. It's got to be the only race. We see above the archie circle, Johan. But what of your big takeaways from this block of racing plan? Yeah, I mean, first of all, I'd love to see Walt von Arck back in action after his, you know, having to pull out of the tour of France during the Dolphin A. First three wins, first three stages, he wins them and then takes the overall that it's nice to see. It's great for his confidence. And so I think we're going to see a great

Walt von Arck at the World Cup. Good to see him back winning. Burgos Felix Gallo proves that he's in good shape again beats only Chicona and Polizari on a hard course. So Burgos is typically a race where the non-duer de France riders prepare for the Walter. So I think he's he's on point with his form. Tour of Poland, as you said, you know, strange to have it in the World Tour, but it's been there for a long time now. And it's purely thanks to the power and influence

who was a great cyclist, he won several stages in the Giro, was a great time trialist, and is a super influential figure in Poland. Interesting. Yeah, so he has a great organization there and

“I think, you know, although we have seen some accidents in the past in Poland, unfortunately,”

but it's normally very well organized. Yeah, and then Chesslov, Chesslov, and Artic Tour, I've seen the two stages. I think it's very interesting racing. You know, we're not the usual big names,

but sometimes you see a really, really good racing then, and never know who's going to win

until the finish line. So interesting, interesting races going on right now. Stage six of Poland, we saw Louis Barray finally get his first win of the career. Yeah, it was like extremely high on that transfer. It's paid off. They made the right move at Beesma. Yeah, he's a strong rider. He's a strong rider. He was very strong. I mean, I had a very hard stage in held off Christian Scroany, Marco Brenner, Axel Lawrence, Paul LePara,

“these are all Mac Shaqman, these are good riders. I do find the racing and these, especially in”

Poland and Czech, Czech Tour, so good. It's just a very good racing, exciting stuff, loving it. I do think the big takeaway is, well, Van Art looks amazing, and we should be expecting a great wealth of from him and to have Woutvin Art and Taday Pagotcher at the Waltha at the same time. I'm my German, what's going on here? This is not, and I'm not spedist in, by the way, we'll also be at the Waltha. I can't believe he's doing that. Why? He's just talking about

the guy that loves to race, right? Like what? He's trying to avoid an altitude camp or something, just like, I got it. I get sea mats that are in one in the refrigerator.

At least he went away from altitude camps, if I'm not mistaken. He had never done them and then he tried

one and then like it, I guess. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, whether rider. Yeah, whether rider, whether warrior. He is a warrior. He made him in Caripass, made the last week. Oh, why don't we got our bosses doing the Waltha too? Oh my god, what a great Waltha we have, and not here. And, and I'm going to say it here first. Maybe Caripass, maybe I can maybe very, very, very likely. Will not be riding for EF next year. Interesting,

interesting. Yeah, I can't say anything else, but the little bird told me that he's going somewhere else. Although he's still, I contract. He still has a contract for 2070. I don't know anything,

and you've not mentioned anything to me. We should say that. I don't know anything about this.

I will just say there are multiple Swiss teams out there with more money than there are quality riders. It's not for sales teams. If I was one of those teams, man, Caripass, he would be a treat to have on your team, right? Because he gets paid. They know they complain about what he makes. He doesn't get paid that much, at least compared to a lot of modern salaries. And what he is delivering. That's enough. It's compared to what he has given back to them.

You know, take away Caripass in, in this two-to-fronts. What do you have for that team? Yeah, I mean, he's a guy, man. Even if you're a fan or not, man, the guy is just a racer. He's a warrior. He's a spectacular rider. He does not leave anybody in different. He's super spectacular in his attacking style, keeps going. I think a great rider to have on a team, if you're a brand and want your brand to be advertised properly, man, Caripass is.

And although he's 33 now, so, you know, it's kind of a treat.

“This is 33. I think he's 33. I don't know. Yeah, I think he said, oh my god, Richard, what's happening?”

I remember when he was just coming in. And the trade-off, as of course, he is 33. If now, I think in EF's situation, they have him on a contract for 2027. They're probably not in a situation where they can offer him a multi-year contract, which will probably be his last contract. So, I get perfectly in vision him to have an offer from a team that has the funds and offers him a three-year deal, which will probably be his last deal. So, you know, if you're in Caripass's

situation and his agent has good negotiation skills, you can probably find a way out and signed that last big contract, which, you know, he fully deserves. Yeah, I mean, and he delivers.

Yeah, like, you could be the worst team in the peloton. You hire him, boom, like, he's going to perform.

“He does not need a complex system around him. I think he's been great for EF. He's probably worth”

more than what they're paying him, which is why he might leave. Another, that's a good little bit of transfer news, you know, on. Thank you. But another one, I'm going to classify it as at some more than a rumor. It's, you know, it's more than a rumor. It kind of makes sense. Now that you mentioned it, that he would want to extend beyond his the next year. Yeah, and EF couldn't pay him enough, because doesn't take a genius to watch that last week of the tour and

think I'd like to have him on my team. Yeah. And yeah, there's plenty of teams willing to do that. Bit of, this is kind of the anti-caripass, Prima's Roglic, leaving Red Bull at the end of the year, going to, this is the rumor that he's going to intermarshade Lotto. Not at all what I would have fixed. I would. I don't even really see how he fits in on that team. It's, I've, I just read it. I have no information. You know, then I heard that both parties have kind of said that they

have been talking, you know, I don't know. I can't see it. I can't see it. It's not a team that fits Prima's at all unless there's some kind of sponsor behind that really wants to put down the money. It's a team that's already struggling. You know, financially, you know, they can't keep the they can't keep one eight felt because, you know, last year they had to let one guilds go. As a last year or two years, I lost year, I think. That was like, last, oh, no, man, I'm moving

“for losing our minds. I think it's been there for two years, actually. Remember, maybe you're into”

you, I don't remember. But, you know, their star riders are leaving. And it's because they, they don't have the budget. So, I think, but for freeing up the budget of the lead and on eight felt, we'll not be enough to sign Prima's mortgage. I agree. I mean, a team in trouble. I dare I say a rider, a rider in trouble as well. I mean, yeah, you sign Prima's mortgage right now. What exactly are we getting? Yeah, plus we, I mean,

first of all, we haven't talked about Prima's mortgage for the wealth, by the way. He's, he's

well at four times. I know, I know. But rumors are that he's not sure to participate because he was hit by a car, I'm training. And so, I'm kind of confident he will be at the start. Unless, you know, he's not motivated anymore. Now, La Pogaccia has announced that he's racing that could also make sense. But, you know, he's in theories. If he would start the wealther and Pogaccia is not at the start, he would be going for his fifth wealther victory,

which would be an all-time record. Nobody has done it before. But, yeah, I mean, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if Prima's mortgage will be at the start of the wealther. But to come back to the lot of intermarsche news, I don't, I can't see it happening. It's not a properly, I mean, it's not a well enough organized team for a rider like Prima's. Unless he brings some people with him, but that's also a budget issue then. So,

I don't know. Or there must be use one of the sponsors who all of a sudden comes up with extra budgets and Prima said, "Okay, I'll just do one more year and cash my check." And, and go home,

“you know, that's that's the only way I could see it happening. But sporting wise, you might opinion,”

it makes no sense. For him. And I love the guy. One of my favorite riders, I think he's incredibly underrated. He looked at just the raw stage race victories and he's one of the best ever. Yeah, like rarely has anyone one stage race at the level he has. My concern is, A is behavior, kind of odd. If you think about the last two where he did, he just, I think he would have gotten the break away on one of the final days when they didn't make sense. He's wearing the short socks.

Doesn't seem pumped. Did not seem pumped earlier this year to be working for a teammate? Yeah, that's not great. But you look at his win numbers. So, this is a guy that just does nothing

but win basically. Has not won a professional race this year. If we take out national championships,

for Slovenia. In 2025, three race wins. You know, for a normal rider, that's a lot, for pre-most. Yeah, that's not really concerned enough. Yeah, because this is a guy that wins between like 10 and 20 races a year. He has almost a hundred pro victories in his career. So, if I'm going to be honest, it looks like he's kind of plummeting off a cliff. In terms of his current, his stage racing performance, I don't know. It is kind of an interesting riddle of

draft the team for him right now, what's the best team for him to go to? Well, it's difficult. It's difficult. It's difficult. You know, one thing, if he goes to Lotto Intermache at the end, one thing he doesn't have to worry about. This is behavior because he will be able to do whatever he wants. True. So, on other teams, it might be an issue. I mean, as you said, Spencer,

it's a great rider, a great champion. He's one incredible races, but doesn't seem to be

half the mentality to ride for some of the else, although he has done it in the past, but you know, let's not forget, which is normal for the champions, right? Yeah, yeah, it is. It's definitely

“definitely, but let's not forget, you know, like, I seem to remember that all the, you know, speculation”

and controversy and an easiness during the Vuelta of SEPCUS was kind of caused by primus rubbish, I think. If I can believe what has been said, you know, so that's something I that was a bit of disappointment for me, but you can't look next to away from what he's just done, and you know, he's been an incredible cyclist, and I think we have to accept, and primus in the

first place that he has passed his prime, and if he wants to do one more year, then, you know,

if the number is right, he's made a lot of money. So, he doesn't have to go to Lotto Intermarsche for a under his value contract. He doesn't, it's not going to change his life, but if he really wants to, and the money's right, then maybe, but again, it would make, I mean, listen, I mean, it would be a huge land for landing for, for, for, motorway to Marsche to strike such a rider, but yeah, for primus, I don't see it, I don't see it, it's not it makes no sense.

Plus, I get, I mean, Spencer, that team is not ready for a rider like primus rubbish.

“I agree, yeah, I just don't think that, yeah, that, this is the opposite, that's why I said,”

he's the opposite of a caripass. You can't just roam in, yeah, it's like, all right, now you're going to win, like, you need this system around them, and he did have a great one, right? Yeah, that's the reason for years. And yeah, I would love to see him, I'm just just off to top my head, go to UAE, just, I know, just to like see him and but got you out riding together, kind of interesting. Yeah, and you won, and you, I mean, if he doesn't want to work for somebody though,

maybe UAE. Well, I mean, listen, if he goes to UAE, it's going to be for sure to the ride for today, or to perform in non-today races. It's also another, I mean, like UAE can do that, you know, UAE can sign, UAE got rich, and having in races where today is not, and he still will be a really good performing rider, but, you know, it starts to be a lot of names, they have to manage the Toro, they have to manage other, you know, young Christian, other ambitious riders, so I don't

know if he would really fit in there, but that I can actually see more logical than him going to lot of intermachie. The thing that, the team that just pops off the page to me, it's like someone like two. You're taking the words out of my mouth. Like, yeah, you know, they have, and I don't, I'm not trying to integrate anyone in this, in this sentence, but you have these teams, they have the money, they're ready, but they're not ready, and they need an almost an interregnum rider, like you have

to have the premos, and you, you go through these steps with him, and then you're ready for the next step.

“Yeah, I think he would be great for that team. They would learn a lot, exactly he teach them a lot”

about it, but also make the team better with his experience. Yes, yeah, I think there would be a great fit. I mean, maybe you will go there. I don't know. I've not heard anything about him, but like he just looked even when you're in the paddock, and he looked at that team, like this

looks like a top, top team. They look incredible. But my wife was like, who are the good riders?

I'm like, I mean, don't worry about that. They'll figure that out at some point. Well, the starter rider of Duda is Bobby and Konchilada. He's the star rider of the team. Well, yeah, well, there's all sorts of stuff about it, Julian Alphalip as well. Yeah, but Bobby and Konchilada is the star rider of Duda. They get him on the bike, get him have him race the vault, come on, Bobby, come back, and then another bit of interesting transfer news that's not transfer news at all, and pours water

on a lot of transfer news. And rumors, Isaac Del Toro renews it. You weigh through 2030. It looks like the Pagat Shah riding for him, almost the entire tutor friends, giving him a stage when doing everything he could to get him on the podium, convinced him that, hey, there's a pretty good place to be, and he's going to be there. I just soon me re-opped for a lot of money, and it almost certainly means Paul's success is not going to that team correct? Yeah, I think that puts the bat the rumors of

terms that include Paul's success. I mean, let's, let's be, let's be clear. So 2027,

to the friends goes to Pagat Shah again, 2028. Again, then we'll see what happens. 2029, Pagat Shah also has a contract till 2030, by the way. But he may want to explore other things,

“other races, although I think he will have one most of them, my dad. You know, there's not,”

that's not my new left. That's it. That's good. But also, I could, I could see him getting like zero curious again, and his later. And what else is left is not much others. I mean, the bus country, two of the bus country is one of the seven one week races he has won. And that's shocking, actually. Yeah. I mean, he, I think he only did it once. And he got ambushed by the price. I think he,

twice. He did, I, I remember he did two of the bus country in his first year, because I remember

an interview of this young kid. I said, this guy knows what he wants. He was, he did it in 2019. In his first year, we did the tour of the bus country. I'm 100. What? Yeah. Yeah. I need to finish top six, top six. Oh my god. He finished six. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. I do remember from that tour of the bus country, you know, I had seen him win in Algarve, and he won two stages. You know, new professional. No 20 years old. He went then he was in the bus country. If I remember correctly,

he was riding for his theme leader, which was, if I'm not mistaken, Rikosta. I'm not sure about Rikosta. If there was not any other UAE rider in front of him. And either, you, it, oh man, this was a weird team at the time, by the way. Was it Rikosta? Was it someone else? Not,

“not really because. Okay. I don't think you would guess this, Johann. No, no, no, was it Fabio Arru?”

No. No, that's a good one, though. It's a weird team. It's like we all have an easier about this team. Dan Martin, Dan Martin. Dan Martin. Exactly. That's second. I forgot. He was on that team. Yeah. Wow. So, but anyways, I saw him do it interview there at the bus country. We're getting off track here. But now we're right. We're this young kid 2019. This is it. It didn't

interview. And I will always remember he said, you know, it is really baby face. Said my next goal

is I want to win the tour of California, which was a big race pack then. Yeah. And guess what, he went to the tour of California. I think it was in May. And he wanted. I think he won on Mount Baldi. I think he would be Sergio Iguida. Yeah. Yeah. I remember, my memory is still working. That's a crazy retelling of the 2018 season. But he did the bus country. And he did it one more time. I think where if I'm not mistaken, he was working for Brande McNaughty. It was in the leader jersey

“at some point. And then he lost it. And I think was it rocking if you want to. Finally,”

the tour of the bus country? Yeah. Yeah. I think Visma worked him over and they got away. Yeah. Yep. And then Robert won it. Right. Oh, he went to the win bus country. So he already wanted you know, he won Paris, he won Cataluña. But about two or two hundred and under is got to win that. No. And I'm saying that the seven prestigious days. So he won. He won Paris, he won Cataluña, he won Switzerland and Romney, he won Dolfin. So it's only it's only it's bus country as control.

Yeah. We'll see. We'll see what else. I mean, it's a Olympics for a bay and bass country. Yeah. Well, exactly. Essentially is what it's not one. Yeah. Yeah. So a 27 man, that's pretty impressive. It's pretty impressive. You would say. It would say not bad, not a bad whole. And then I mean, so Lance had some thoughts about this that he couldn't believe that Dol Toro would want to stay because he wants to win the tour. Right. He's wasting years at UAE under the

two-inch of Pagachar. My argument would be, Pagachar is not going anywhere. Del Toro going to little trek does not solve the Pagachar problem. No. You're going to just lose to Pagachar. Yeah. And not be on his team. He's not going to be helping you. He's going to make some against you. Yeah. So yeah. Do you want that guy helping you or racing against you knocking you off the podium? Probably you'd want him helping you. I think he's doing the right thing. But

his Pagachar is going to win or is not going to win. And it's not going to depend on you,

send him with Jonathan or bias. You know, he's had some good results being on the same exact Pagachar. Whenever one thought he was crazy for going there. But the closer you get to the either hurricane, often the better off you do. You know, I mean, sometimes, you know, I mean, obviously not in the tour de France, but sometimes in stage races, especially in stage races, or even one of the races, if you are on the team of the big favorite, it creates opportunities

“when everybody is deciding their strategies on Pagachar. Also, I think a few other things to take”

in mind when we talk about the tour renewing. Number one, the value of the contract. I think UAE, there's no question that they have the biggest resources. And they see the tour as the next project

when Pagachar is not deciding to not go for it anymore. Secondly, they're amazing friends,

they get a long, really, really well. Pagachar in in their tour, and thirdly, not in that order. They also have the same agent. So, you know, the career brothers, Alex Karanaya. So, now, I mean, I'm going to assume that the contract is really good, because Alex Karanaya is a great negotiator, and if it would be too much of a difference, you know, he would consider leaving, but then it's still, then another thing Spencer, what we have to have in mind is you can have an agent

to negotiate a huge contract for you somewhere else, but if the rider doesn't want to go, it's still the rider who's going to decide, you know, unless it's a huge contract at another team doubles it, right? But if you say, for example, it's X, X amount of millions, and another team offers

“30, 30% more, it depends. It's already a lot of money for these guys, right? So, I think,”

I think the total chooses for the atmosphere, the group, and the environment, where he feels great, and I think it's a good, I think it's a good decision for him to stay at the UAE. I agree. Why, why mess with this? I mean, they clearly have the best back-back-end system, you know, with their trainers and everything they have going on, I would not leave that team. We should, I looked it up, he extended their 2031, so not 2030,

and great age spread between Pagachar and Del Toro. So, Pagachar was five years younger, what do they say when we start looking for your new job? You start looking for a job that you get your new job. It's like the same thing with UAE. They already now have a plan for when Pagachar is not winning grand tours. They have Del Toro. You know, teams can get into a lot of trouble, when you rely on this great writer. They step away. You don't have anyone to fill that void.

I think it's super smart for both of them. I also think it's great for Paul's success, not to

go to that team. That never made a lot of sense. So, it looks like that's not going to happen.

I think, you know, we've talked about it, I think, says us. First of all, Spencer, he's not on the market. He's not a free writer. He has a contract with Decaplomb 2, 2025. Let's not forget that. So, you know, we all know, okay, contracts can be renegotiated, but for the moment, Decaplomb is in the driving seat. They have him on the contract. They would need to agree to let him go. He's already probably a big contract, which has already been, you know,

renegotiated, I think. And personally, I think these rumors of him going to other teams or consider other teams. We have to consider also that this could be a tactic of the agent to just definitely price, right? Which, you know, it's just right. But, you know, we've seen there it is,

you know, figure of 13 million, 13 million offered by Pinarello, Kuturus 6.5. I personally, I don't

“believe that's true. I don't believe it for a second. I'm calling you, you should not, but I'm calling”

both of them. I've got, I'm pretty deep into this last few months. And it's shocking, actually, how big a difference there is between the truth and that's numbers. And things you hear, these agents are running circles around cycling media. And like Oscar on the first example, they did not go to any of those for the number of them. What did they say initially 6 million? 6 million and it was not 6. You know, it's like a fraction of that. But the agents, I think it's close to that. Yeah.

And I mean, which is good. That's a good little, that's a good chunk of money for the team. And that's a make more sense. Yeah, that's a good price. The agents are just, they're running a muck out with these numbers. But I also, I had someone tell me who trades an information for their

no, that you would imagine that can't be true, if Del Toro just renewed to 231. I mean, I mean, this and we can be wrong. But they're, it makes no sense. I mean, this and success and Del Toro have been fighting for the podium. These are the next grant to your contenders. They cannot be on the same team. It's, you know, it does just especially given their age. You know, if it would be one who's super young and the other one is a lot better than maybe. But they're both so young still. I mean,

let's not forget Del Toro, what is Del Toro? 22. 22. This is super young. You know, so, he has the best part of his career in front of him. So, and success even more so. So, no, I can't see them racing in the same team. Makes no sense. Makes no sense. Makes no sense. You're right. Something crazy about Del Toro, I was just thinking about on vacation. So, 22 years old finishes started the tour and then it's like a trick question. How many riders on the tour podium? How many to had not finished on a

grand tour podium before? Zero. Because Del Toro, like of the rider, like all the riders that finished on the tour podium this year. So, Pagachar, Remco, Del Toro, you know, if you ask some of the question, like, how many are grand tour podium debutants? Yeah, you would think Del Toro is,

right? No, he was second. He's not. He's already advanced on the podium of a grand tour. He should

have won that duo, by the way. Oh, yeah, he just took that thing and punted it right in a left field.

“I still can't believe that. It made him, I think it made him a better rider, though. He's come”

out of that. Oh, listen to me different. The way he bounced back. What did he, when he went, he won ten races this year, I think. And yeah, I mean, basically, after he lost that zero, he essentially didn't lose another race. He just keeps winning and telling you out to the tour this year. Yeah, but didn't win for good reason because it wasn't his job, too. Plus, it's been part of another thing. He was sick. Yes. Yeah, we haven't talked about that. You know, we did it.

I've never confirmed it. You know, we have, we have talked about it during the Tour de France,

so we knew that the meates with sick, uh, well, so sick, fluently, I've remairs with sick, drown the McNulty with sick of an abandoned team. Well, and I think Spencer, okay, here's Bobby again. Sorry. Bobby, come here. Come here. Come here. Let Bobby, Bobby wants to be on the show. Come here. Come. Hang on, one second. I know, I know our listeners like to see Bobby. I don't get Bobby.

“Yes, Bobby. Bobby. There he is. What's up? Hey, Bobby. Are you not happy? Are you not happy?”

Yes, you did, Bobby got a myorka with you. Bobby did not come to myorka with me. Oh, my god. That's why that's next week's kind of happening to the north of Spain and he's coming with me. And then in September,

we go two weeks to Belgium, and that's going to be his first international trip on a plane.

Wow. Hey, Bobby. Wow. Yeah. He's going to fly for his first time in his life. Wow. It's that a crazy long flight. It's not just two hours and you know, like a little, a little dog like like this can be with me and the on the plane, like, you know, you don't need to check it in like they do with big dogs, you know. So yeah, it's going to be fine. He's looking forward to it. Okay. Now that he's here, I can keep, okay. Okay. Yeah. Well, well, yeah, sick, del Toro.

“Something, uh, I don't remember now the weather is what I was saying. You were saying,”

10 miles into sick. Yes, Toro was sick. Yes. So Spencer, if you remember correctly, and you, I don't think so, but two or three of the other guys on the move were kind of laughing with me. I was saying, yeah, you know, I saw this interview of Tim Wellen said, you know, I have doubts with this cold weather and the eyes and this and that, you know, you know, you don't get sick from that. Listen, guess what? Guess what? I spoke to someone

from within UAE and that person confirmed that they were 100% sure that the cold water and the call and the eyes and over, overcooling has an influence, the change of temperature and produces sore trotes and they were not the only ones. So I was right. We're going to de-platformed again. I also want my personal theory on ice, so we're going to be an off-toppy. It gets you sick because you're putting like when you consume it because you're putting a liquid into a solid

form that then can be touched and it touches a lot of stuff and gets a lot of germs and then you

temperature changes. I get, you know, I get, okay, it's all about cooling down the body and it

makes sense and it improves your recovery and your performance. But let's not forget that you're doing these things with bodies that are already extremely repeated. You know, you're super fragile. Even if you're in top shape, you know, they're all super super fragile. The difference between being in top shape and falling sick is that that line is very thin. Okay, you know, because you only get sick because of a virus or a bacteria or whatever. That's not true. I am still convinced

“that if you are putting your body on a lot of strain and you have to perform an extreme heat,”

and you have these sudden changes in temperature, whether it's with ice or and the Americans are going to laugh with me. AC? It can make you sick. No way, it's not the opposite.

It can make you sick. I did have a, I think I told this on the show already. No AC, obviously,

like in the UK and then I stayed and I would tell what they see and I was like, I think we get sick. I could feel it right away. It's virus. It's bacteria. Well, okay. I think I should also say a lot of people who are sick, actually. I think yeah, we've got you. I mean, Tim Welles was sleeping. You see his eight sleep numbers. He's sleeping on like a 50 degree bed. Yeah, no wonder he got sick. We have another ad break. We still have

more show. So let's do another ad break. We've got to get through the rest of the show because we have to talk about what's going on at picnic post in Eliohan. It is, it is needs discussion. Okay. So we'll be right back after this. Everybody this episode is brought to you by hymns. Are you catching yourself in the mirror and doing the mental math under your hairline? Most guys know the moment and hymns makes it simple to actually do something about it.

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And right now, make sure you take advantage of that $200 off Square Hardware. That's SQU-A-R-E.com/go/themove. Okay, you'll just to continue our, as we continue our transfer news. We talked about that. The big headline stuff. Prima's right about going somewhere. Enter my shape. Maybe maybe not. He's a tutorial of not going anywhere. Paul success. Probably not going anywhere. If he's not going to UAE and he's on a great team already. The other transfers. So, let me read

these out really quick. Pavel bitner to Q36.5 and picnic posts. I think that's a big loss. Good transfer. That's a great transfer. Fabio Jacobson to Feesmo from picnic posts. We will talk more about that. That is really understands. Maro Schmid, J. Kota Q36.5. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, he's a good rider. He's probably going to get paid a lot of money. He's going to be great for that team.

Some sneaky good ones here from your friends over at Alpsen. Mattis Michaels from ES to Alpsen.

What got Alpsen from? What's the classics to be with? Wanted to pull? Really good.

That is a great pick up. And then another one, Casper Van Uden from picnic posts to melt Alpsen. Is it a great pick up for Alpsen? But what are we doing here, picnic? We're losing everybody. Yeah. And then this one's kind of crazy. This one makes sense. But I had kind of forgotten. He was a professional. Mika Lando, Mika Lando sued all quick stuff to Uscadal. Yeah. I assume just like a homecoming. That's also good for the team. A lot of people know this, but it's obviously he's last year.

And this is going to be his last transfer. And Mika Lando is actually a co-owner of the team.

“I didn't know that would make sense. Yes. So I think, you know, it goes back home. That's where he started.”

So it closes the circle. Spencer, the one that really sticks out to me is Fabio Jakobsen. I mean, it's effective immediately. Yes. That's another thing. So. But anyway, picnic, picnic, what does it picnic, they've changed so many times. picnic post analysis right now, right?

So yeah. First of all, we don't know. First of all, we don't know if they're going to be in the world.

You're next to it because it kind of looks like maybe not. Well, I mean, it's done. This is transfers. Yeah, based on the transfers. And then let's not forget also that they got their license only for one year. Due to the financial situation of the team. So yeah, based on their points right now, they're not in the world to you. That's the first thing. But then, you know, to see once again,

“Fabio Jakobsen, who, you know, I think it's fair to say, has been nowhere. No results.”

Changes teams in the middle of like changing now to Visma. So I don't know what Visma needs or what they know or what they are thinking. Jakobsen has obviously been one of the best sprinters of his generation in his prime. But you know, the fact that he leaves directly, it's once again, once again, and this guy, I don't know if it's genius or if it's sad or if it's just whatever. But, you know, the team owner, Ivan Spakembrink, to me, I mean, he keeps excelling at trading in cyclists before the

expiration of their contracts. It's, it's crazy. It's like, this is his specialty. He sells riders that are under contract. And I've made a list here Spencer. It's astonishing to see which big names have left that team, whatever their name was. If not, big thing post an L before it was the SM, then it was Sunwap, whatever it was, then it was before it was giant or giant Sunwap,

“giant or whatever it was at some point it was even opposite if you remember correctly. Team giant”

Alpsen. Yes. So I've made a list here of the biggest names, but there are many more. There's many more. But this is not a coincidence anymore. And this has become this guy's business. This guy made more money in selling riders than with running the team. I'm going to name them. These are all riders who left that team before the end of their contract, which implies, which, you know, that speaking bring God paid to let them leave Marcel Kittel, Mark Hirschi, Michael Mathews,

Warren Bargill, although he's back now, Warren Bargill. Yeah, Tom Dumoulin. That's that one's Chris. After winning the Giro, he won a grand tour at that team. He won a

round tour and it was second in the Tour de France. Oscar only, obviously the last one we heard of,

Dish Benaut forgotten, but he was nobody remembers, but Ilam Van Wilder, Edward Tunes, Felix Gallo, 2022 Felix Gallo had a contract with Chris Phil, and they let them go. And this is just, you know, I mean, but anyways, Kittel Hirschi, Michael Mathews, Dumoulin, only Bargill, Felix Gallo, Warren Wilder, Tish Benaut, Edward Tunes, this is crazy. This is the guy who trades in professional cyclists. That's his job. He's not a team manager.

He's a trader. Well, he's a trader. He's a very good trader. I don't hate the business idea. We should say he used to sell writers before the contract came up. Probably writers he knew would leave. Yeah, so he's getting paid. That's great. He's funding the team with it. He's then developing new writers than he sells. This is a great little business model. Where it started to fall apart is, now he's selling writers and then not no new writers are getting involved. That's kind of a problem.

I mean, the proof they got their license approved only for one year, and it's not getting better. They're losing now writers that are obviously not of the caliber of these names here that we've seen. And all they do is they sign writers from their development team to the professional team. That's all that happened. No other considerable name has signed for picnic post-anal for the moment, and I don't think anybody will. First of all, because they don't have the budget. And secondly,

“it's become a not very attractive team. I mean, I think they're, what are they? 2728 in the ranking?”

They are. It's also concerning that they're 29. Yeah, 29. And the last team, I mean, they made the least

amount of money in the two of the fronts. I mean, it's not always a reflection of, you know,

the quality of the team, but in this case, I think it is. Yeah, in this case, it is, you know, and they are almost, I, I don't actually, I don't know what happens here, but so you have to be in the top 30 of the rankings to be invited to a current tour. Yeah, they potentially could break brains and the rules, because they could technically be outside the 30 and a world tour team. But they didn't be ineligible to go to a grand tour.

I don't know what happens. I don't know if that's still valid, but if they're outside of the top 30, and there still be a world tour team. I don't know because they, first of all, they don't have an automatic license. If we let them what happens to their license next year, but they don't have one. Are they then, who does it go to? Well, I mean, it's going to be, do they, or is there just one less team at all? No, it's going to be two door or

open in a row. Would get promoted to the world tour. Yes. Yes. Ha. Those guys are in a dog fight.

It was in first. It was in first. Is it two or open in a row?

Pen in a row by less than 200 points. Oh, wow. That's going to be interesting. So, and they've seen, yeah, they're super interesting, super interesting. Wow. I mean, I don't know what to say here. This is like, shocking. Yeah. I'm breaking that brain. For to the end and in a row, in terms of participation, it doesn't really matter. Because next year, they can participate in all the world tour races anyway. Yes. And an advantage is if you are in that situation, if you're in the top

three, I think of the pro teams, you can also decide to not go to some of those races. If you don't have the necessary riders, whereas a world tour team is obligated to go to all the races, even if they have seven or eight riders who are sick. Yes. Yeah. I mean, in some ways, it's a

“better situation. It is. The thing is that you have to, you have to do it every year, every”

year, but at this point, you know, there's no way that two door and two in a row with the

budget and the riders they have, they're not going to be forced or second. There's no way.

No. The question for you. On Fabioac, yeah, Cupsen. Why is Vismet? What's going on over there? Why would Vismet do this? Well, I mean, I don't know, man. I honestly don't know. I mean, there must be something. Obviously, there's something not right. There has been something not right with Fabioac, Cupsen. I know he had this. He had this surgery for his Iliac artery, you know, I think, which I don't think he ever recovered from. Whether they know now, if they

that's better or not, they must know something and they must have faith that he's going to perform again. If it's one of the trainers who's close to him, maybe when else, I don't know.

“Apparently he's next door neighbors with their head of performance. That's what I heard.”

Yeah, okay. Well, I mean, so they must know something that we don't know. Spencer, otherwise, yeah, that makes no sense. And it's obviously not going to be a big contract leader. That's true. That's true. It was tiny, tiny contract. Let's say he wins two races. That's good. Paying for him. Pay him for himself right there. Yeah. Here's, here's just a vacation dot. I had Visma. Where do they go from here? So Jonas

is he come back with like the full vigor? And I mean, obviously, we have to take everything these guys say with the grand assault. Like Bradley Wiggins, Lance Armstrong to them, anything not winning the tour is like, what are you doing? What's the point? I still think like, Jonas, see, if you can go to any grand tour, you want where Pagachas are not there to win and then you get podium at the tour, that's pretty good. It is, it is, although, but if you have one to two or twice,

then and you've won the zero, you won the world time. It's like, okay, the only thing, you have to win the tour again. Now, something really that worries me and concerns me is one of the quotes that I've seen from, I don't know if it's direct quote or if it's a comment from a colleague, but apparently,

conceded that he's unbeatable, which is, you know, obviously a problem. Yeah, which is probably true and you could understand being frustrated because he beat him twice,

and then you show up to the tour how many times can you finish second, after winning a twice,

that has been mentally crushing. And then you're going to go, like, the tour is one investment, but think about all these training cases to go to. Well, I mean, like, why am I doing this? If, but if we're listening to, what's her name, Treena? Treena Vingigarto or Hansen, again, she's, again, come out with comments saying that, you know, the burden is too hard on the professional cyclists that the training camps should be optional and not mandatory.

She said again, I don't agree with it. I do agree for for Jonas. I would bet he could train at home

“and be fantastic, right? That's not a normal person, though. Yeah, most guys, you should not let”

do that. Yeah, and also Spencer, you know, when it could come back on this, okay, Pagachas are unbeatable. Yes, but there's going to come a time. They're going to come one time where, you know, it's the race is to be in the best possible position in case something happens to Pagachas. True. It doesn't happen. It's a true, you know? Yeah. So, yeah, if you're not this year, we don't know if he was going to be in second. He most likely, yes. And something happens to that,

to that A, you know, when I was maybe that A has the same problem as it's a sabcus or crashes in the time trial, like lipwits, whatever, you know, then it's, it's Jonas who wins. So you have to have that in count. Of course, that's not in the mind of a champion, you know, yeah, I can agree. I can agree. I can understand that Pagachas, you're not said, okay, I've now done everything I can. I mean, the best possible shape I can. I does nothing else I can do, and I'm still so far off,

because until he crashed, he was already four minutes behind. And it was only going to get more. Right? So, yeah, I can understand that way of feeling. It must not be easy. At the same time,

Jonas, you're a damn good bike rider. You're, you know, you're an amazing champion. You've won

everything you can win. The three round tours, you know, all the other races. He hasn't won Switzerland, no, but because I don't think he has ever done it. I know that he's ever wasted. But, you know, he's close. He's also won the, he's won the bus country. He's won guarantees. He's won. Did I know? I think. You, I believe he has. I mean, he's basically won it. He might be, I mean, I would have to say. He's won Qatar, let's get to sell. Oh, he won the bus country.

I don't know if you won. I think the only two to win, the two to know. Min is ramen the end and Switzerland. The two to that day won this year. You know, so there's also, and he hasn't raised Romantic since 2019. Okay. So, you know, if you win those two races, he's up there. You know,

“I mean, the only thing that he's worse at and he will never be as good as in the one they”

races and the classics. But that's easy to accept. You know, that he's not that type of rider. But if you, I do think if you win Spent 20, all three grand tours, one of them, the two to France two times and then the seven prestigious one of the races, man, you can go home. You know, it's this is almost no one you have done this. I know the crazy thing about them. There's days that he's not able to match, but he rarely is a bad day like ever in his career. Yeah, think about it.

Yeah, almost never. Let's say, these must be planning as we talked about the UAE for the

post Jonas post-wout future. Should they have kept all of Koi? Would that not be a great rider to have for a moment like this? Well, Jonas is crashed out. I know, but yes, they should have tried, but I don't think they could. It was a budget issue. And so, if you have wallet, yeah, I guess. And then you get all of Koi who gets an offer of reportedly 3 million euros from Lekatlo for three years,

“there's not much you can do. You know, as you have to choose your bets and they are betting on”

they were they have been betting on vault and Jonas and rightfully so I think. So they'll have to come up with new talent. You know, this must still one of the teams that is a reference and young talents want to go to, although it may not be the first choice anymore, but still. I mean, I would, I mean, if a young talent has the chance to go to Visma, there's not many riders who are going to say, no, I don't want to go there. It's a great team. It's a great team. True. I mean, they do have

what's the name? Piggins Oli. David. Because Oli, they have, I mean, they have Matthew Brennan,

talent also for the future. You know, and probably others others that will come. So you know, so I think and here's a question for you before we go. On the move, it was said, these guys, they're going to retire young. They're going to retire young. Procycling's too hard, another vacation thought ahead. It's procycling easier because you guys are eating bread crust, just miserable. I mean, Wiggins was talking about, he would do calorie deficit rides where he would

circle my orca. They would purposely underfeed him and then he would have like sparkling water

and go to sleep to lose this like to lose weight. First of all, and then it makes a harder

lose weight because you're not able to train at the level that you're burning a bunch of calories.

“And then that's why personally I think like you look at some of these riders and they're training”

on super fuel and they're going so hard in training that I don't think they have to watch their weight as much as riders in the past. I think it actually could extend careers, but here's just a few names for you. Prima's Rockwich, Warren Bargeal, Mikael Landa, Julian Alafelip. These guys are all still racing. It actually doesn't seem like it seems like maybe you become uncompetitive and grand tours, but it doesn't seem like guys are walking away from the sport,

necessarily. I mean, do you think that's going to change? Obviously, you're named these four riders. I mean, Warren Bargeal, I don't know about the other the others. They're racing because they still also have incredibly good contracts. Let's not forget that, right? Yeah, so it's difficult to say, okay, now I'm going to stop now and go into

into normal life. It's a big wake-up call, by the way, for everybody. And you're never ever in your

life, even going to come close to make the same amount of money that you did as a professional cyclist. So that's a difficult one to say no to, right? We saw Julian Alafelip at the finish off of the West saying that, you know, I'm done. This is my last time. Let me tell you, this is not this last year. Well, yeah, yeah, maybe it's last year or the tour, it's not too much on that contract.

You know, if my information is correct, then I've heard the contract value of Falafelip, he's not saying no to that. He's finishing his next year. Yeah. Yeah, I agree.

“I agree. I think he's going to be back. And that was my argument on the show as like the money is”

so high. People are going to walk away. They might, they might stop winning, but they're not going to walk away from this contract. Yes, that's for sure. Yeah. I mean, I remember, Gil, what a genius thing from picnic, sell him, get cash for him, then hire him for free, again, like on a free transfer. Yeah, later on in his career, he's one of their best writers, by the way, which shows the type of position. He says on all about the level of picnic, most of the now. I mean,

Warren Margiel has been a great writer, but he's a shadow of what we have seen from him. You know,

he can, he can go in a break, but he can't stay in the break. He can never make it to the finish

with the first writers on the break of me. So, do you know how old he is? 36. This is only 34. 34. Okay. I feel like he's from a different era. Yeah. I mean, he is in some ways. And then we should mention the closing of folding out shock by this of the flanders, balloway's. Ballowas, yeah. I guess you, you would say, you wouldn't say flanders, you would say flander.

“London, ballowas. Yeah. Yeah. It's a team. It's been around since I think to under the name”

flanders since 2006. So, 20 years. And it's been, you know, the team in Belgium that, you know, was catching, they were, they were catching talent. Lots of good writers have come through that team. It's been the ideal team for, for young writers who were not ready to go straight away to the big teams. And a lot of really good writers come from there. And now, unfortunately, I mean, everything comes to an end at some point. But I've heard that the government, because flanders

tops for flander and was, is, is the entity that sponsors sport for young people, but it's government-based that they have cut costs and that they're not willing anymore to, it's a political motivated decision also, depending on, you know, who, who has won the elections. But yeah, unfortunately, that team disappears, run by the son of my first coach, Patrick Circu, was from my hometown, sadly passed away. His son, Kristoff, has run this team now for the last 20 years or more.

And unfortunately, now the team disappears. So, that's a bummer for Belgium cycling.

really good professional writers. Yeah, I, I'm shocked to, it's sad, it's sad for flamish cycling.

“I'm, so I think concerned about it, because as you say, it's this type of writer who's not,”

it's not pausic sauce. Yeah, they're not, but not everyone can go from the juniors to the pros. Some people need a stepping stone. Yeah, I mean, I'm just going to list some writers that we pulled out of it out of here that were that started on this team. Victor Campinar, it's Thomas again, Yann Bakkeland's Peter series, Stand of Older, Tim Decler, Eves Lampard, Oliver Nason, Jonas Ricard. I mean, these are all very good writers who maybe don't make it to the world

to work without that team. It's worth doings. Edward Tunes, I mean, it's just a, it's the meat,

you would describe these people as like the meat of the sandwich and professional cycling. Yeah, like they're there, they're serving extremely important roles for team like teams like Albus and Premier Tech probably feast on these writers. A little concerned that this stepping stone is now being removed and it doesn't feel like there's more coming in. You know what's in sometimes? Now I'm thinking back, I'm thinking back now. This team exists not 20, 30 years,

30, because I remember I guess mid 90s. I remember when I, in the mid 90s, I remember going on

on a training ride, I don't remember now who it was. Two young writers, when I just moved to Spain,

to Calpe, to, so in the Costa Blanca you've been there. And I moved from onset to Robobunk, and I trained with two young writers, then, who were there on training camp and they were on Flamberton. So it's more than 30 years. It's the mid 90s, so yeah, so very long time.

“And it's, it's sad because I think, take Victor Campinar. It's amazing writer. It's super important”

for Visma. If he was on, let's say the junior U23 program of a team like UAE. I mean, maybe they don't keep him on the team. Yeah. You know, he took a long time to come into the form that he's in right now. And I worry that you can't trust the big teams to develop all these writers in house because they're just going to pick the shiniest gem and pay attention to that. And then these guys that take a little bit longer to develop aren't going to have as many places to go as they've

had in the past. So it's really sad that the team's folding and it's not good for Belgian cycling and it's probably not good for professional cycling in general to this happening. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, last year, two years ago, I think we had kind of the same setup in Wallonia,

“which was Bingo, like in the days of Bingo, Wallonia. Yeah, team disappeared. So now this team disappears,”

and there's no new teams coming. Also, we have to say, one of the reasons this also happens is that more and more world-to-teams have their own development team, right? True, that's where, you know, but these guys are obviously a lot younger. You know, in this in London, Baluas, for example, they were really young writers, but you could also be 25, 26, 27, and still then make it to another, to a bigger team, which if you're in development team, that's not the case. You either make the step

before you're 23 or you're done. Yeah, essentially the unglamorous part of development was outsourced from the world tour teams to teams like this, where it's like, well, we don't want to pay attention to this guy, but maybe he's going to be good. Well, he's going to go over here and maybe we'll come back later. Exactly. But then now that's gone. It's not good at all. Oh, good. Well, anything else you'll have before we take off? We went very long. I didn't check the clock.

We went long, but we have been away since then. It's been a while. Yeah, we got to give the people an extra boost. And then this, and then we're going to lose the chance to talk about all of this, because we got the Walter preview next week. Exactly. And we're straight into the Walter. Yeah. Okay. So next, and so in a week, we're back. Next Friday. And we're back, Walter preview, coming out Friday, and then Daily shows during La Voata, I spun it.

Look at what we're looking forward to. Me too. You're great to talk to you, and we will see each other next week. Okay, Spencer. Thanks. Okay.