How Red Bull's Tactics in the TT Backfired | La Vuelta a España 2026 Stage 18 | THEMOVE

and we were doubting because Lance lost a minute and a half to Ulrich in the first time trial.

So we didn't know how he was going to perform compared to Ulrich in the second time trial.

“And we had a minute, I think, a minute, 15 gap advantage.”

And so we were a bit stressed out and said, I put a guy in the first five kilometers. I didn't what I put a guy like person from the team, every kilometer in the first five kilometers. And they took the time of Ulrich and they took the time of Lance and they called me straight away with the time. And after five kilometers, I knew he was on pace with Ulrich. So, you know, it's not that difficult.

You know, so I don't know if they're still doing this, it's obviously a lot more technology now, but at least from the GPS, they didn't get split times until kilometer 11 today. You know, so it's a simple way of trying to find out if your riders on pace are not. Everybody, welcome back to the move podcast, I'm Spencer Martin. I'm here with Johann Berniel. We're breaking out stage 18 of the Valtta, Espania, as well as predicting tomorrow's stage 19.

But our outcome stage preview will get Johann's take on who's going to win.

“I believe you on, you were correct about stage 18, Stefan Koen from Tudor Pro cycling wins the stage”

by two seconds over Caleb Colum, Caleb Colum, Thorin Lee, from Red Bull, Borahons.

Go, Scottish rider really strong, really strong right here. And then Zwala made a third,

eight seconds back, did not see that coming. Primus Roglic, top of the GC contenders fourth, pretty good. Right, I thought 18 seconds back, while then our fifth on the day, 19 seconds back. So about where we thought he would finish the big surprise of the day, though, is so Roglic finishes fourth, 18 seconds back. I thought very good time trial is average speed, 54k an hour, quite good for 32k. In Rick Moss, finishes 12th on the stage, 51 seconds behind

Stefan Koen only losing 32 seconds to Primus Roglic and actually outriding Roglic from the time check 2 to the finish, going 3 seconds faster, fifth on the day for that final stretch between time check 2 and the finish shows us he is incredibly strong. Time trial of his life. Oscar on Lee was the next of the GC contenders. He finished his little confusing because he's time gaps are too stuff on Koen. He finished 110 down, 52 seconds behind Roglic. Yuck up,

Armzel was the next rider. He finished 21st, 137 down and that is 119 behind Roglic. And then you had Richard Carapaz not a great ride from him. He was 144 down and then the worst of the GC contenders feel it's gone. That this was a pretty poor time trial. 26, 146 back loses 128 to Roglic. The GC now is in Rick Moss remains in the lead. 137 over Primus Roglic. That might be it. That might be all

“she wrote Yohan. I think today was the day he sealed this thing. Feel it's gone third and 301. So”

pretty far down. Richard Carapaz, fourth, 517, Oscar on Lee, fifth, 603. Yuck up on Rizel, sixth, seven minutes. I mean, very good ride from him, considering his age and experience level. And the big, the big news there is he's now 57 seconds behind on Lee in the white jersey.

But Yohan, I want to hear your move of the day. Our move of the day as always is brought to you

by eight sleep who also sponsors Team UAE Emirates. So if you want the same mattress top or the title, I've got your choosing to stay cool and warm, whichever one he prefers every night. Just go to 8 sleep dot com slash to move for $350 off of the end of the vault. But Yohan, what is your 8 sleep move of the day? 8 sleep by the way, Spencer, I have to say, you know, I just got it last week and I've started using it now three or four days. It's amazing. It's a game changer. You know,

the way you sleep, especially now, you're in Spain with all temperatures. I've never experienced something like this. It improves your quality of sleep tremendously. So I understand why we got your and UAE are using this at all the races. I would recommend it too for like if you live in Northern Europe, you know, you don't have a lot of AC everywhere. Like the 8 sleep there would be key. If it's London on a hot day, you'd want nothing more than an 8 sleep. Keeping cool at night.

That's perfect. Perfect. Can't recommend it. For sure. Anyway, my 8 sleep move of the day is for sure and Rick Mas. You know, there was these calculations of how much he was going to lose with he potentially lose the jersey even. But, you know, I think he had two minutes 10, right, on

you know, also made a big statement, especially that performance in the second part of the

time trial, even gaining time on pre-most. That's for sure. My moves the day spots are no dial about it. What do you think? I agree. I mean, I mean, I mean, we should say, I mean, we should get props to stuff on Coon wins the stage. First, grand tour stage wins since 2024, both the

“Spania. And those are is two only individual grand tour stages of his career. I believe it was the”

final TT of the vault. Maybe the final day or at least stage 20 in 2024 and then wins this in 2026. That's a big win for him. I feel like he's been... It was the final stage in Madrid.

I remember because I went to Belgium. Yes. Yeah. And also Spencer especially also, you know,

props to him because as we know, he comes back from a very, very serious injury. He had a really unlucky season, had a big fracture femur. I think he broke his femur in the classics. Took forever to come back, super complicated injury and he won the title, I'll just before. The tour, the tour Spain, the tour of Poland, and now with the title. With a very small margin, but, you know, he was the specialist in the race. And so he wanted

disappointing performance, I would say, from 8 in Hater, who I also, I know, yesterday as a potential winner. And he's not in top 10, no. He was 6th. So sorry, no, 9th. I'm getting my visions of 3 messed up. Also, as you say, Stefan Kuhn, I mean, super class writer, I'd kind of forgotten this, but this is 2023. It gets 6th at E3, 6th at tour of Flanders, 5th at Rubei,

“and then I think the next year, he also top-fied Rubei, 5th at Rubei, 3rd at Twarves or Vlander.”

And I just don't really, you kind of forget how good of a writer he is. He's super strong, super strong. And also, if you watch the time trial in his position, it's perfection. It's the cadence, the position, you know, the way he divided his effort to this time of 54.4 kilometres average, over 33K, that's, that's very fast, super fast. I mean, to even be winning any time trials in the modern era when you're going, I think of who you're going up against. You're going up against

guys like Remco and Flipagana, who not only are very talented, spend a lot of time and money on their position and materials. And he's winning them. So it pops to him, but you're right, Inric Moss, this was, this was beyond what I thought he was capable of. Because, Robert, we should just keep saying it had a good day, like fourth place on the day is, it's good. And Moss, I mean, that was way less time than I thought he would lose, even in his wildest dreams,

to limit it to 33 seconds is really impressive. Yeah, Spencer, 33 seconds, it's one second

per kilometer. You know, I saw some calculations out there, you know, like say a minute, a minute, 20, I even saw Dan Bingham, who's the the Aero Guru, apparently, and is hired by Red Bull, to basically, you know, take care of the Irish, Irish dynamics department, time trial department, good time trialist himself, was he not second in the World Championships pursuits, lost, lost

“to lost to Philipogana, actually, with fraction of a second, I think. And then remember the”

hour record for a little bit. And yet our record, what he was kind of preparing the hour record for Philipogana. So this guy knows his stuff. So an interview of him, and he said, he felt really confident with Primos. He thought that today they could get this decent chunk of time to be in a position to launch an attack on the Red Jersey. He was talking between 150 and 145. Man, it's a lot better than that 33 seconds. And you know, speaking of speaking of that Spencer, I just want to bring up something,

you know, I saw a few things today, which, which really blow my mind, it's specifically, I mean, that, well, we're not going to have, we have our eight-sleep move of today, we have no sponsor for my rant of today. There's a company I want to say, but we're not going to say, I'm going to sponsor it myself that my rant of today is directed towards a Red Bull border today for a number of things. Number one, and maybe that maybe the most unbelievable one. And I don't know if Gabriel can put

chest, you know, and you see, there's a lot going on there, like these wires, all over the place,

oh, yeah, they're really messy. When I see this, I say, wait a second. So is this not the super-team, what things about everything, everything detail, they have this reportedly this super-smart expert on aerodynamics. And then you see this, I mean, and then I have to think back, I said, you know, I remember, and I'm not a smart guy, you know, I just missed common sense. Since 1999, my first year as a director, none of my writers have ever in all the teams used

“this setup as a radio, which is, I think, makes no sense. And I just thought really simply,”

and I said, okay, we used the same radio, but just a normal, simple wire with only an earpiece,

no microphone, you know, it works, you know, you buy these little, I, I always bought at the beginning

of the season 20, time trial wires, I call them, which was a simple wire, just an earpiece because in a time period. You buy these, you know, on the radio shop, whatever, like one of those electronic shops. Okay, and these are all my images. As long as the plug is the same, it works, you know? So my guys had the radio, and then just a wire with an earpiece. So you avoid that it's, you know, hack the key, and then also nothing can go wrong, because if you look at this picture,

you know, you see this microphone. So if that's under the skin suit, it's pressed and you sometimes this button gets stuck. And then all you hear in the car is, like a noise and the writer cannot hear anything. So there goes your communication. And I actually checked before going on air here, because I've seen it, not just with Red Bull, but with many, with many teams. And apparently the teams, there may be exceptions. And, you know, if they're listening, here's a hint,

a little bit of advice from an old grumpy guy. You know, use these simple wires in time trials, because you avoid so much problems, you know, because it can't go wrong with it, with just a one one way earpiece. And but apparently, most of the teams are using this normal radio setup with, you know, the two way communication, it makes no sense. So I'm a bit, I'm a bit baffled, actually, by seeing this on, especially on a team like Red Bull with a tremendous budget,

they're supposedly the super high tech team, you know, with their high tech performance and

“aeroproach. And then you see this, I mean, I said, you know, WTF, you know, WTF, what is this?”

That's number one, you know, how does a super team, like this, not think about this? Did you see, did you see that? Uh, when rocking it across the finish line, it was, it was close up. So it was very, very obvious. Yeah. So I did see that. And a lot of a lot of thoughts about this. You're, I mean, you're, you're right in your smart, like it should just be a simple wire,

it goes into your, you never have to speak back. Why, why have all of this, you know, just an extra

wire, and then the thing you would talk into the microphone, it makes no sense. Yeah, I heard, I woke up this morning, you know, I'm making my coffee feel pretty good about premos. And then I hear, oh, Dan Bingham, the genius time trial guru, premos doesn't work with him. He thinks he's got it dialed it. And I was like, that's not what I want to hear. That's not good. And then you look at his position on the day. He's got the worst positions in this race. And then let's, let's bring

up the picture here, Spencer, the, the, the three guys compared, you know, like you have on the picture here, Gabriel, if you could put it up, you have premos, and you have antics, mass in the middle, and FedEx call. I agree with you. It's the worst of the tree. And it's, it's the, like, let's say five years ago, we'd be sitting here saying, oh, well, look at this beautiful position from premos. But if you notice it, versus the other guys, the old, the old

eye test would say, well, they're too high, right? Moss and Gallard too high. They're, they're picking up air. That's not what we're finding. We're finding the more you pull your hands up. And you keep your back, you know, you almost like want your back tilted up because I mean, your hip angle is less acute, which makes you, let's let you put more power out. You can breathe better. You look at premoses. His diaphragm is like going into his legs. He can't bring his legs up and down as

easier as easy. And he's got a lot of space between his hands and his face, which are, that's

“the most important thing in time traveling. I mean, Moss is a, Moss actually in Gallard is actually”

pretty impressive. Yeah. I mean, like the position of premoses is more leaning towards the old school position where, you know, back in the days, you are, you know, you try to go as low as possible. And then you try to get your head as close as possible to your, your handlebars, right? Yeah. So, I mean, this is obviously premos probably thinks that that's the best for him or that's

I also don't know what, you know, what the situation is within Radbull. You know, if it's true that he doesn't want to work with Bingham, you know, it's maybe one of the consequences of him not was staying at the team and he says, you know, I don't care. I do my own thing. We don't know, right? But yeah, I mean, that position is one thing. But man, that I, when I saw that wire,

“you know, I thought, wait a second. So, you know, you have to think about everything nowadays.”

Maybe is it something that I haven't thought about? Is it maybe because it creates more turbulence in the chest area? And it's a better, I don't know. That's a joke. But, you know, it didn't, it looked, it looked horrible, it looked horrible. So, you can also think, okay, maybe premos just does whatever he wants and thinks and doesn't listen to anybody. That's another explanation, right? But the, anyways, the fact, Spencer, that they're using the usual two-way communication wires to me,

just makes no sense at all. That's, that's a bit of, I mean, that's the first, the first part of my

rant. I have a second part of my rant. Can we take a break in between? Okay, let's, let's have a quick break. Yeah. Okay, we'll be right back after this. You don't want to miss this rant. See, you got to come back. We'll be right back. Everybody this episode is brought to my ultra-pouches with the Walton at 3rd week. Let's take a little time to talk about our presenting sponsor that made this all possible ultra-pouches. If you're someone who needs a coffee every couple hours just to feel

normal, which I have during this Walton, you know the trade-offs. The racing heart, the crash,

“the wrecked sleep score. That's why I've been using ultra-pouches. They're completely nicotine-free”

and caffeine-free as well. So, you might ask, well, what's actually in them? Well, ultra-worked with neuroscience is to build around clinically proven new tropics and adaptogens and the result is smooth, steady focus, and energy that lasts one to two hours with no crash and no withdrawal. You still get the pouch experience you like just without the nicotine. I keep in my desk and when I sit down to work, I pop one in better focus, better sleep,

no jitters. They've got five flavors and the cool mint, that's gonna quickly become your go-to. Chris, refreshing and exactly what you need every afternoon. Ultra is the ultimate guilt-free pouch. Instant focus and mental clarity without nicotine or caffeine. New customers get 15% off with code the move at takealtra.com. That's takealtra.com. Use code the move for 15% off. And when they ask where you heard about them, tell them we sent you. It does really help the show. Okay,

Johan, we're back from break. Second part of your rant. Go ahead. Yeah, the second part of my rant,

“and unfortunately it's again for Red Bull, Dora. Okay, so you look at the time trial. Right?”

The time trial is a crucial race today for their leaders. If we look at, let's let's

be realistic. We all know that Felix Gauss is not going to win this well, but he was going to lose a lot of time today. That after today, he would be in a position where a miracle will be necessary for him to win. Plus, I have to the fact that Gauss has already several times declared that he's racing for the podium. He's not racing to win. In between the lines, I think you can you can feel that. Primus, however, unless he also thinks that he can't win or at least the team

knows that they can't win. But primus is in a position where you can say, well, you know, whether I'm second or third or fifth or sixth, it doesn't really matter that much. All I want is winning. He already won this race four times. So if today, he took time back on, on, on, on, on, on, must, and, you know, before the time trial, they didn't know how much time they were going to take back. If he takes back one and a half minutes, all of a sudden, he's in a position where the next two

mountain stages, he does have a shot, maybe. It could've been a third or second difference, you know.

Yeah. So it's two time bonuses that, you know, that's not that much. What does that mean that you need? In my opinion, in these situations, the only rider of the team that go go full gas is the leader. You cannot permit any other riders of your team. If that's if you have a long-term plan of attacking after the time trial, he needs teammates. You know, so, Primus should be the only one to go full gas. What do you see? Calum tourney, second. That's a huge effort.

Will he be recovered from that tomorrow? He's in good shape, but he will feel it. Yeah. Finfishing black was he sixth? Other than things. Six. Yeah. You know, so those two riders or riders that

I don't understand why a team would allow that. There should be a clear instruction before

“the time trial. Okay, guys. Listen, we're here to win. We're going to try to win. We're going”

to try everything we can. Primus goes full gas, tries to take time. Everybody else, active rest day. We need you guys as fresh as possible tomorrow. And they have to. Those two guys, it's okay, strong riders. Obviously, they have ambitions. Currently, could have won the time trial. But does that really matter for a red bull if they have a stage win or no stage win in the Vuelta? It's not going to save their season. That question is that the team really believe

that Primus can win. You know, that's maybe also the reason why they let these young guys go full gas,

because they don't, they know that Primus won't win. And most likely he won't win,

Spatzer. Don't get me wrong. But at least try to put all the cards in your favor, especially before the time trial. So on the contrary, if you look for example at Movistar, they did the old fashioned way or maybe just an old fashioned way of thinking. I mean, it's also possible. Maybe these guys are so good and so well trained that they recover enough tomorrow. And they're really good. Maybe. But at least listen, if you have a relative

rest day, there's nobody he's going to say that they, after you're not going to be a bit fresher. You know, all the scientists and the smart guys of today's cycling, they can tell me whatever you want. But if today you take it easy, tomorrow you're going to be better. If you look at Movistar, they have Ivan Rameo and Raul Garcia. Two guys who are super important tomorrow and the day after. Raul Garcia finished and we're talking here about an X Spanish time trial champion, Raul Garcia.

He finished his 114th at more than five minutes. So it took it really easy. Ivan Rameo, if you look and I did some research on this, they did something different. Also, super, super tantralis, right? I mean, he stopped five in tantralis, X World Champion

“under ready three. tantral? Yeah, last year? Yeah, I think. Yeah. Was it last year?”

Two years ago. I've been two years ago. I've been two years ago. I've been two years ago. I've been two years really good tantralis. Yeah, young guy ambitious, you know, maybe he wanted to go for. So what did they do with Ivan Rameo, which is, which is a really good system. They made him go as far

as as possible in the first two split times, because if you look, he's up there in the top 10.

So what happens normally, if you have a guy like that who's tantralen really well, you know, in the case of antric mass, you can really not wait until kilometer 11 to know the split times. You need to have something before. So I'm going to guess that Ivan Rameo went fast until kilometer 22, the first 11 kilometers went super fast. So they probably took at least five different split times. They're all split times, you know, kilometer two, four, six, eight, 10.

Those are times that then they use for antric mass's base schedule. And then you know that your leader is on schedule. You know, like he, antric mass was, if he's not too far of Ivan Rameo, who's a great time-trailist and went full gas, you know, okay, we're good. We're all paced, you know? Yeah. And you don't have to wait until kilometer 11 and find out, hey, oh shit, I'm one minute behind.

“Right? So that's what they did. And it may be an all-school approach, because Movistar”

is probably more of an all-school team, but in my opinion today, they did what needed to be done. They saved their guys for tomorrow, because they need, obviously, they need to defend, and they had fast split times. Of course, Primo has also had fast split times with the column tournily, right? But you pay for it, right? Because in those guys earners, you have fast split times, but you're paying that big bill. Even though we'll also have gone fast,

but, you know, he went from being in the top 10 to finishing 120/30 at more than five minutes down. So he really cruise to the finish. You can clearly see that was his task today. Fast split natural ending must, and then sit up and don't push it all the way. Anyway, tomorrow, we will see if this is correct that I'm saying, right? But at least try to put as much of the controllables in your favor, and I think that's what will be started today. Do you know where the slowest time

I mean, I don't think there is worried about being a minute down at check one. It's probably

“more about keeping mass restrained. Like, don't go too fast. You don't have to just stay within the”

Ramayo band and you're going to blow up. And then he's stuck to the T2 and he's flying, right? He's clearly had a lot left, and he's fifth fastest on the day from T2 to the finish. That is that wild stuff. The Red Bull, I'll explain. It's funny you're calling this old school. This kind of sounds like it'd be a new thing that someone would pitch. Some genius would come in and pitch this in people like, whoa, make your own time checks. I could show you, you know, back in, I mean,

of course, you know, I'm coming from a different era. We didn't have digital stuff, and so basically

it was very simple. I'm going to quickly explain, you know. You have a rider who's a good time trialist, Lance's in yellow. We don't want to wait until, or he has to catch up on, try to get the yellow jersey, whatever. We have a guy who's a good time trialist. So this is his task. You will fast until the first split time. But usually the first split time was enough, you know, because once you're done in that in that pace and then you sit up. So basically what

was what happened is, you know, you just put the, the odometer on zero in your car and you just have, I had a paper, a paper like it, just a few lines, you know, like kilometer so it's like five or six split times. And I just had a guy next to me. And every time we saw two kilometers in the car, split time, four kilometers split time. Sometimes in prologues of, you know, short time trials of

10 kilometers, where there was basically no split times. We took a definite kilometer.

I remember in 2003, for example, when it was tight with Ulrich and Lance in that last time trial, and we were, we were doubting because Lance lost a minute and a half to Ulrich in the first time trial. So we didn't know how he's going to perform compared to Ulrich in the second time trial.

“And we had a minute, I think, a minute, 15 gap, a vantage. And so we were a bit stressed out.”

And so I put a guy in the first five kilometers. I didn't what, I put a guy, like, person from the team, every kilometer in the first five kilometers. And they took the time of Ulrich and they took the time of lines. And they called me straight away with the time. And after five kilometers, I knew he was on pace with Ulrich. So, you know, it's not that difficult. You know, so I don't know if they're still doing this. It's obviously a lot more technology now, but

at least from the, from the GPS, they didn't get split times until kilometer 11 today. You know, so it's, it's a simple way of trying to find out if you ride our own pace or not. Yeah, I like the idea. It's a good idea. More people should do it. I mean, not all teams are well-run like machines, like Movistar, just a grand tour winning machines, like them. But it's fun. And then clearly clicking, here's my theory on Red Bull because

think about Movistar. It's odd we're talking about them being like the pinnacle of teamwork. But everybody's like Enrich Moss is all in on that team. Everyone here is all in on Enrich Moss. They're all working toward the same goal. Think about Red Bull.

Rogletch has never messed with that team. I doubt there's a great emotional connection there. He's

leaving. Kalen Thorne Lee is a, does it matter for Red Bull if they win the stage? Probably not. It matters for him. So he wants to win the stage for him. Rogletch wants to do well for him. Finfischer Black wants to do well on the stage for him. I don't think, I don't think there's a greater strategy here. I don't think there's any letting guys go fast. Well, they're doing a question. No, Spencer, that must be somebody who has the authority to say to these two young guys,

guys, I'm sorry. Today, you're not going full. We need you tomorrow. In case we get close to the red jersey, you know, so I don't think it's a record or saying that now, though, they should. I don't think

“they do, but I, they should. I don't think, yeah, I don't think they do. And I think, I'll tell you,”

direction has come from the leader, usually. I'll tell you another little story, funny story, in the same context. So there was one time, you know, I'm not, so there was a time trial in the Tour of Switzerland, don't remember which year it was. The only time lines in the Tour of Switzerland is that he won it. There was a time trial of Cranzmontana. And so, I don't think the lines was in the lead or I mean, I know he was battling with Gilberto Simone, who had, I think, won the

zero. And so, it was a long time trial, probably 40 minutes or something, 40, 45 minutes up the climb. And so, we didn't

saying, okay, you go full gas until the second split. And then, you know, the, so it was the flat.

And then the first part of the climb, you go and then, from that second split, you take it easy, because I will need you tomorrow, right? Yeah. So, but I didn't go behind him. There was,

“there was another director going behind him and then gave me this split time, right?”

So, I get this split time. But anyways, this director said, hey man, this guy, man, he was flying, man, he has the best time, you know, he has the best time on the top of the climb. I said, what do you mean the best time? He was supposed to sit up on the, on the second part of the climb, you know, he ended up third in that time trial. Lance won it, he ended up third. You guys can look it up with this. I'm not going to say it, but that was enough for me to not renew his contract.

You know, after all, it was a good story. That's an eye, you are ruling with an iron fist. It was, yeah, anyway, it was not not the only reason that it was a good reason to, you know, I don't, I don't actually remember if I renew this call, and maybe he still had a contract, but anyways, after that, at least he was on the beat for sure. Yeah, interesting. Well, let's, well, you can look it up. I mean, but I'm not going to say it.

Yeah, it's easy for the listeners to find out. Two of Switzerland, 2001 or so, and I don't remember it was 2001 or 2002. Well, that's, and that, that is an extra, you, you definitely had

“control of the team. I think it's just different now. Of course, it's a different, different, different”

different time, different generation. It's not the same, you know, you can't, you can't, you know, be have that authority back from back then right now. Things have changed. I understand that. But still, you know, once in a while, a little bit of common sense, it wouldn't, would come in handy. I think it's a, yes. Well, I think now probably, you know, because Lance looked at you a lot, right, to act as like the ball to the soup that was the team,

I think now it's up to the writers more. So in the past, I wouldn't think of him as being a charismatic leader, but he is writing so well right now and is so, yeah, he's exuding so much confidence. The team gets behind him and he can tell them what to do. With Roglic, I don't think he's paid. I mean, I just don't think he's built the relationships are ever bought in enough at Red Bull for them to say like, well, I got a sacrifice for my chances for Primos. He just hasn't

invested that. So I can think about UAE, they're a mess without Roglic. Roglic. Roglic shows up in everyone suddenly is doing exactly what they should. It's, it's, you've said, it's Spencer, you know, if you have a strong leader and the leader's in a position to win and show that he's dominating, it's a lot easier to have everybody behind the same goal, right? Yeah, that's for sure. By the way, look, look who showed up. I heard many people already. I wanted to see Bobby. But Bobby had a haircut.

So he's, you know, looking nice and fresh and he's getting ready for his first international trip,

right? So he's going to Belgium in a couple of days for three weeks, yeah. So it's going to be exciting. Yeah, big, big times ahead for Bobby. But at least it's a short flight. That took that flight recently, not too bad. Yeah, and it's, and it's easy with, you know, you can, you can come with me inside the plane, you know. Yeah. So that's, that's good. You doesn't have to go into a special cage. You're going to have Bobby fans trying to guess this flight.

Get on this flight with you guys. Yeah, Bobby, Bobby seems to be extremely popular with our audience.

“So, uh, here it is. I think we could have a podcast, just Bobby sitting there. It would outperform us.”

But what did you think of the, like, the GC landscape leaving this, like, when at the dust is settled, inner mass looks like he's going to win. Rogo, so he's going to get second. I would say, tell me if I'm right or wrong here. The two riders, I was actually really impressed with Oscar only. I was pretty impressed with Yaku. Good. That was so, actually. Yeah. Yeah.

The feeling like Cara's, Carapaz didn't do great. Carapaz never really does that well in

time trials. The one I am most disappointed in is a feel of skull. And, you know, he's never, before this year, he had never podium to grand tours. So if he podiums two grand tours in a year, that's really good. You know, that's incredible. Yeah, it's, yeah. But if he can't sort this time trial situation out, I just don't, like he's going to little track to then do what, like, do they, is he good enough for them to say your GC leader now or, like, what's the future

I can't figure this out. I think so. I think so. If someone, you can do two times podium, you're a GC leader on any team, right? There's three grand tours, right? So it's getting a bit

So they're going to, what I have, I have him as a GC leader in some of the races. Now, there's fitting to go. I've heard that scale mows is not to excited and it's maybe looking to go somewhere else because there's other riders coming. I don't know if that's going to happen or not, probably not. But yeah, I mean, it's a snucky good. Derek, she's pretty good GC rider. Derek, really good time trial. It's really good in the third week. Like, he's going to be good for

team of the call as well. Yeah. Yeah. Listen, there's a lot of races and there's not only the grand tours, there's a lot of other stage races. There's these guys can do good at also. You know, so I mean, listen, independently, if things go, can time trial or not, if you finish just two times on the podium of a grand tour in the same season, that's amazing. There's not that many riders who can do that or say that that they've done it. So, you know, let's not be too hard on him.

He's never going to be able to time trial, Spencer. If it's not enough, he'll time trial. If it's

the climbing super and fine. But it's really unusual. I love that he exists because you don't see this anymore rider. Like, he can he can climb with the best almost like almost the best climber

“and just cannot time trial. I mean, how many how many riders are there like that in the modern era?”

There's not many not many like caromads on him. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Fast, it's fascinating. I mean, inric moss, pretty good time trialist or has turned himself into one. Well, and then also, Spencer, listen, the last time running ground tour and especially if you're in the form of ending moss right now, I, you know, I'm surprised that it's 33 seconds, but I had expected 45 seconds,

which would still have been amazing. Oh, no. Whatever he has shown already now is like, you know,

he has amazing legs, he's an amazing shape. He's in the red jersey, he has super motivated it. In two minutes, 10 before this time trial, this could not go wrong. I mean, I hope I don't jinxed it because, you know, there's still two big mountain stages, really hard mountain stages, but, you know, for now in the mountain stages, he's shown that he's the strongest. So, you don't see any people losing any time. If anything happens, he's going to take more time.

“I think. Yes, I agree. I mean, I did a calculation. I just took all his head to head”

time trials with Roger the last four years, the amount he lost per kilometer on each one of those time trials, and it's spit out 120, a minute, 20 is what he would lose. So you think, man, if he limited it to a minute, he's outperforming his performance at the last four years. Not only did he not do a minute, he did 33 seconds. So yeah, he's the strongest GC rider in this race, not even really close. So who's your podium? Who's your final podium? The way it is, and I think Masprimo's

Roglic Fettig's goal is this a good finish. Let's say, Roglic finishes second at this Welta,

is that good for him and Red Bull? I think under the circumstances, it's an amazing sponsor.

Doesn't, that didn't have a great season was focusing everything on the Welta, get hit by a car, about three weeks, three and a half weeks before the Welta damage is considerable, you know? And then if we, if we, you know, we'd read that he was able to, he was not able to write his bike for a while, then I mean, then he started to write his bike, he didn't train for in preparation. He didn't do specific training in the three weeks before the Welta, he was busy trying to get

better and, you know, re-having, right? The fact that he's now in second is, it's small miracle,

“I think, and they would have, I mean, Pachi Vila gave it interview before the, after the stage”

today and said, okay, you know, of course we were trying, we were hoping, but he said, if we, if you said before the start of this Welta that we would be in seconds, we would have signed straightaway. It was that, that interest, I mean, he's not shown anything in a long time that would suggest he could finish the second here and he's now firmly in second. So yeah, it's pretty impressive. It also makes his off season a lot more interesting because probably not going to

a lot of intermarche, I would assume. I don't have a second. I don't have a second. I don't have a second. So, I don't think so. Go to a little track. Get in the mix. You know, here's, here's a crazy, he's a crazy idea. I don't think it goes with the personality of prima, but you ain't, I know you're going to say that. That doesn't fit with him, but you know, where he would be a good fit actually is Red Bull Bora Hansgrove because like, what are their options if he's not at this

now you're on the podium. That's not bad. Yeah. You get second at the tour, possibly second at the volta, and then you're going to lose that. I just, I don't know what they gain by getting rid of him,

“but maybe it's not. I think it's a conflict. There's been some things that, you know, the team”

not really believing him anymore. 100% he thinks that he still deserves more respect and trust. So, I can, I can see that. I can see that. Well, I mean, just on that really quick, does he deserve more respect and trust? Because how many riders on that team have finished on the podium of a grand tour recently? Listen, we're just saying the sponsor. We're just saying this based on what we read and what we, you know, imagine the problem. Yeah. I think, I think,

listen, I think he, I think he gets the respect from the team. He's pretty most lovely, you know, he has one so many races. I think they support him fully, until the last last race he will do. So, they're perfectly lofted to do that. So, yeah. I don't know. We should read more into that than what he really is. Yes, it is kind of a stacked team because you think about the last few grand tours,

just think about the last one that finished, they finished second. The one before that.

“No one on the podium. No. Did you hear him? Did you hear him? Did you hear him? Did you hear him?”

He was third. Yeah. And then the vaults of before that, they were not on the podium. The tour before that, though, they were third. And then the zero before that, they probably would have been on the podium at Primo's not crashed out. So, I guess they have giantly rimco up in a ball-throwing lipo, it's all having finished on the podium in addition to Primo's Raghelachism, but certainly he finishes on the podium here. Yeah.

So, yeah, I would love the UAE. That would be amazing if he went to UAE in easily.

I've also got somewhere, I don't know if it's true or not, it's maybe a rumor that he would potentially go back to Visma. He kind of makes a lot of sense, actually. I would love that move. I think that makes sense. Yeah, assuming the price is right. This is all assuming the price is right. But, someone asked me, if there's another team who's signing a lot of riders where apparently the budget is not an issue, is this been a rally?

Yeah, I'm a little surprised that I'm surprised that none of the Swiss teams are popping up in this conversation. Tudor, yeah, Tudor in Penerello could be. Tudor wouldn't. Tudor would make sense. Tudor would make sense now, especially that Alaphilippe is gone. There's a big budget, which is free. I mean, if you think about, I think I've heard somewhere, which is actually,

“look, that's the money that Primo's is asking for 4 million, reportedly. That's what his agent”

is asking. So pretty steep. Alaphilippe was apparently on a 3 million Euro contract.

Plus, he decided to stop straight away, so that's four months they don't have to pay, which is a million. Yeah, so that's four million, which is, which were they were supposed to spend and they're not spending. So, I don't know, it's an amazing, incredible, is a nice thing for Alaphilippe to do, by the way. All right, you could have seen how this contract easily could have seen it though. Yeah, you're right. So the 3 million, the not paying next year, the million, they're not paying this year.

That's a year, a pre-most. Also, business quite good in the pre-most regulation industry, like getting 4 million after the year, after this year, pretty good. Wow, it's used to pay. They have to find someone who pays it, right? That's true. True. True, but, wow, impressive.

Well, maybe you're asking 4 million and you turn out with 3.2, you know, that's still not bad.

I mean, in my mind, this all, I know EF complains about it constantly. It all just reinforces how good a deal richer care passes. They're not paying that much money for him, and they're getting so much from him. I get is that that deal was once seen as terrible is now one of the best deals out there. And it gives back a lot for sure. I mean, how many riders can win multiple tour stages in a year? There's not that many. No, in their super numbers.

And now still fighting, not still fighting for the podium and maybe another stageman. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. In an extra grand tour, but you know, should we take a break and then preview tomorrow's stage 19? Yeah. Okay. Okay. We are back, Johan. Tomorrow's stage 19 is the first of two mountain stages. So we have stage 19 mountain stage, stage 20 mountain stage, stage 21,

211 really tomorrow. That's how much man. That's long for today's stage. Super long, super long.

“And hot and hot. Yeah, out in the heat. I think it is slightly more mild temps. It's forever.”

See, just over 4,000 feet of climbing. Sorry, not meters of climbing. So many, many feet of climbing. The big feature of the day is I think there's two categorized climbs, one un-categorized. And then the final climb, which is 2019 K long at six and a half percent. Kind of looks easier than it is

even because the last let's say 12 K are quite steep, like 7 to 8 percent. 6 and a half to 78 percent.

Last time they were here in 2022 break away. Richard Caripass wins out of it. The GC guys all finish together. How do you think this is going to play out and who's going to win? Yeah, I think first of all, that last climb is a lot harder than the profile tells. You know, let's say 18 K at 6.6 percent average. Yeah. I just saw a little video of Pedro Delgado who's previewing all the big climbs of the Vuelta. And yeah, it's steep. There's some really steep

parts. It's deceiving because the overall percentage is less because there's some flatter parts in it.

“But there are certain parts of, well, 15 percent even. So that's one thing. But I think the way it's”

going to play out, I think it's going to be a big break away. As usual, as we tend to see nowadays,

now if you look at the profile of the first part of the stage, it's flat-ish and then there's two

cat-two climbs where a big break away is going to go. I have this fly again here. It's the same fly that yesterday, but for some reason the fly shows up when I'm doing my podcast. So I think big break away again, like 25, 30 riders. Movistar will let it go. Movistar will probably have one or two riders in the break away that to then drop back on the last climb. So I think we're looking at a stage, which will be won by the break away. Same guys we've seen already. You know,

there's going to be a guy like Christian Rodriguez. That's another thing. There's some guys

“are in the top ten. So Santiago, we travel. We'll be in there for sure. Who else?”

I'll be Marco Brenner. Marco Brenner. By the way, we just checked the sponsor. In 20, 22, so four years ago, Marco Brenner was fifth on this stage. He was 20 years old. So he could be, you could be another one. Same guy. So he's going to be Seppkus. Yeah. He's now outside of the top ten. He will try to go in there.

Yeah, I mean, but it's going to be the same guys always. I'm going to go for something I would be

travel to do with the stage. I think he has good legs and he won't have to spend too much time on those cut too much effort on those two category two clients. Doesn't really need to win the sprint. If Walt, what art is there, I don't know if Walt is going to be there. He doesn't need to be there. Well, if I would be Walt, I'm just taking a day off time tomorrow. I mean, yeah, I focus on the stage. But you know, I agree. I agree because I think last stage isn't play. I mean, today you picked

up 11 points. You know, so it isn't really if to do anything now because 3.6 months, 2.39. He's 67 points in the lead. Matthew Brennan is not going to win more than one stage. Left. Yeah, you know, one additional stage. So he's probably good. Why, in the last stage is not 50 points. It's less points. I think it's a 30 pointer. So in less Matthew. Matthew Brennan wins tomorrow. Well, it's in trouble. He's sweating it.

Unless unless he goes in the break, takes the two intermediate sprints. And then wins the last time, the intermediate sprint, then wins the stage. But it's not going to happen, Spencer. Yeah, it's probably not going to happen. It's forbidden from about you, Brennan, to go for the point jersey for Ben. Strictly forbidden for Bolton. Do you want to? Even if you, even if you would want it, I think the team director just pulls him off the bike. I think I don't think he wants

to do it. Seems a little hard. A little unnecessary. Did you hear him lobbying to start the tour next year? I was, I thought that was bad. I saw that. Yeah, I saw that. Yeah, I like that. I like that. Point that seed early Matthew. What are the odds? What are the odds with the, plus 700, Felix Gaul. First up first. How? How? Set coups plus 700. That makes a lot of sense. In Rick Moss plus 700, that makes a lot of sense.

Oscar on the plus 1600, Yarno Weedar plus 1900, Christian Rodriguez plus 2000.

“So you picked, wait, who did you pick again? I'm going to pick for a little bit,”

but Chaggo. I'm going to pick Marco Brennan plus 1200 because I do not think this is the GC

day finish. I don't think so. It's from the race. Yeah. I mean, set coups would make me a

little nervous, but I'm still going to go Brennan plus 1200. But the engagement set coups could

burn us all and win the stage. How, how would that be for Visma? Like, it just throw another guy in the mix. Let's get a live stage win. Yeah, why not? Why not? It's possible. Why not? Yeah, pretty impressive, but yeah, I think it is going to be breakaway. Breakaway gets big gap.

“Do we see gaps in the GC behind? I think the only thing that can happen is that”

and McMustics more time, I don't think he will try unless he sees something really, like a huge opportunity that the pre-moses is struggling, but the last time they came up here before the four GC riders finished together, I see them together also tomorrow. Yeah, I agree.

“I think so too. All right, Johan, we'll be back to break this down tomorrow and then preview,”

stage 20, but thanks for joining us and we'll talk soon. Okay, thanks. Okay, bye.