Is Jonas Vingegaard the Best GC Rider Right Now? & What Is Paul Seixas' Market Rate? | THEMOVE+

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“Where do you like if you had to rank those sports top GC writers?”

But currently right now if the two of friends start to start it on Monday, who do you think are the best GC writers right now? Well, first of all they're still able to watch are he's the best in basically everything? And then if you look at it for me personally, quality wise, the two guys who are not reading Tireno and Varinis are the next two.

I think that's the top three. The total probably mean in the tour when he has to work for that he will probably

won't finish third, but you know quality wise I think he's up there.

Everybody welcome back to the move plus some spin smart. I'm here with the O'Hambroneo. We are going through the news and racing recaps of the week, the past week in professional cycling. We have Perry niece running right now. You want us to find a guard dominating the field there and we have Tireno Adriatico with Ezek del Toro taking the race lead from Julio Helizari.

Yohan, I'm just going to run through the stage winners really quick. It's pretty jarring because the last time we spoke on Saturday, Teddy, Pogature had ruined professional cycling. Everyone's up in arms. This is boring. A mere few days later, Pogature is old news. It is now Yona's kindergarten sport. Get get out of the way, Tata. You're done. You're washed up. But if we cast our minds all the way back to Sunday, the day after Shadabiyaki

Luke Lumpurty, American who we called out actually, I think two weeks before a week before as having two top 10s at the opening weekend, I'm looking for a windstage one. Max Cantor, windstage two, team time trial stage three, one by any of Scrinidier's slash Kevin Volklon because it was kind of a sciss goofy time trial team time trial where you take individual times

“and remember that because that's going to come around at the two different.”

Yona's kindergarten windstage four terrible rainy day. He just dominates everybody. Pretty interesting with Red Bull pulling them along the whole time stage five yesterday. Yona's kindergarten is nice and he says I can win on a nice day too. Just drops everybody rides away solo. Extends his lead. Herald Tahada on XDS Estana winds today kind of a good interesting move. But then, before we talk about that, Torrano stage one,

Felipogana winds the individual time trial start the race, Matt Matthew Vanderpool, windstage two, Tobias Lund Anderson on to Kathmand windstage three, Matthew Vanderpool winds again stage four yesterday, we should talk about that. That was kind of an interesting select group at the end. And then Michael Valgrin on EF today, winning ahead of Isaac Del Toro and Mateo Jorgensen,

his first wind since 2021. Yona. I believe he's had a lot of injury issues. Unclear to me,

but yeah, what are all the issues he's had? And then I assume this has got to be a major win for him. Yeah, I mean, Michael Valgrin, let's not forget this is an ex winner of obstacle race. Was also, did he win obstacle race? He did 2018. Yeah, didn't he also win at newsblocks? When you won, yes, that same year. And he would third in the world championships in

“Loven also. Yes, I do remember that. So yeah, he had a crash. I do remember he had a crash,”

really, I mean career and threatening crash. They kept him on the team. He actually, I think one year he went down to the development team of EF and then occasionally he raised some races with with the World Two team. But yeah, I mean he's he's back. I think he was top 10 and throughout the Bianca if I'm not mistaken. He was up there in the final at least. So yeah, I mean, he, you could see me. He was from a break away. He dropped Alaphilippe on

history. Of course, Alaphilippe is not the Alaphilippe anymore. We know from his prime time. But still,

You know, the time for Alphilippe, Ghana wins no surprise. We were looking at what the DC riders would do.

“I think except Carapas, who did a terrible time for Al, everybody else was whoever expected them to be.”

And then yeah, Mathew Alipulman, two stage wins. That first win was very impressive because

there was some gravel and some uphill at the end. And he was the only guy of his stature up there with all the climbers. And he won against Perigari and Toro. Difficult to win for him, but he did win hard for victory. Yeah, he really won like this. But yeah, he chose that he was on the limit. He was on the limit. But yeah, and then yesterday's victory was even more impressive. You know, he went the way he,

there was a break. I mean, there was a break first, then he caught the break. And I was a select group with all the GC riders and some sprinters. But man, when he took off, that was, I mean, I thought when he left, there was 300 meters to go. 300 meters. He had to go. It was headwind. And so that was really impressive. So I made a little notice that Mathew Alipul is very, very ready for Milan's Arremo. You know, not just because of that sprint, but there was

there was a moment in yesterday's stage where the Toro attacked on the top of a climb. And man,

“he was on like, you know, unbelievable. So I think it looks good for him for Milan's Arremo. There's”

my opinion only one rider who can beat him as a puncher and he needs to drop him. We've already seen that in the past, it's not easy to drop on the pool on the climbs like Milan's Arremo. And I do think that his condition right now is probably a bit better than last year's condition. Last year, he did also today, he didn't manage to win a stage. Now he won't do already. And he looks really,

really, really powerful and comfortable. Now the question is, you know, how much better is Pogacera

the last year? I have an impression that he is better the last year. So actually, I know he's better the last year. So yeah, little side note. As you know, we were at Strada Bianca for four days on this trip. And we did the Grafondo on Sunday. And so in the morning, when we went to the start, I ran into Mauro Janetti, who was there. And I didn't ride, but he was there. So I stopped and talked to him a little bit. And he did mention that they, you know, what they've seen in terms

of numbers from Pogacera is an improvement compared to last year. But it's not the same level. It's better. Well, at the same time, I also know that the rest of the peloton is also better than last year. Well, we looked at, I think you said on the show, you're like, oh, I bet he's about the same as last year. And then, oops, should have checked the vell on account because they had his power numbers from Strada. And he was 40 watts higher than last year. I would say, though, he was

aware of that. That's to take with the grain of salt. I think 40 watts is, that's a, that's a big improvement that. But he is better. He is on a higher level. I did speak with other people from teams after Strada Bianca. And they, they said that, you know, the riders say that the peloton has risen the level again. So that most of the riders are on a high level. If you, if you produce what you did two or three years ago in Strada Bianca, you're not in front. So keep getting higher and higher.

Our people have we calibrated these power meters. Can this be true? I mean, Tom Danielton had a theory that like everyone's trained the way they're training. They get better and better. Like they're stacking training. And then back in the day, you know, you'd be good. And then people would take like three months off. And then, foot fight to get back where they were the year before that maybe that

“wasn't the best way to be training to improve every year. Kind of an interesting theory. We should say”

stage four. Kind of glossed over this. But Matthew Vanderpool is there. That was in a league group. Because Mattel Jorgensen went to the front on this final climb, shortest final climb. Mateo gets the front. And he's a little out of the GC because he's currently, he was sitting forth the time. He crashed. You mentioned Vanderpool winning the stage two uphill finish on the gravel, electric super exciting. But Mateo was right behind Vanderpool crash. So he lost a little bit of

time there. But he gets the front and absolutely destroys the field. The guy looks like he's an incredible

just got back on the front and held the race together until the final kilometer. Yeah, really, really impressive from both Mateo to do that. And then Vanderpool to be there. It is kind of interesting to me. Do you remember? So last year, you said, Matthew Vanderpool doesn't win any stages here. And then obviously has an amazing spring. Win San Rambo, Win Z3, Win Z3,

third at Flanders. Do you remember 2021 Matthew Vanderpool or Mateo Vanderpool? It's always

“going to call him because that's what George calls him. Matthew Vanderpool has one of the most”

impressive Torino Adriaticos I've ever seen. Remember it's like the 55k solo break away in front of Pagachar. And then he has a bat one of his worst springs of his career. Spring classics. Is there something to this? And today, to be fair, he did, he did set up. He didn't like fight. He probably could have fought. He tried it. He tried it first. And then when he saw that it was really too hard, he just didn't insist. So you can almost see a metering as effort. Oh yeah, I assume that's

what he's doing. Yeah, I mean, listen, I mean, if you want, if you, so he wanted to use blood, right?

He wins two stages now. Basically, the rest of the Tireno, he can just cruise and just,

you know, monitor his condition and make sure he recovers and he's fresh from Milan San Reimo. I mean, there's no pressure on him anymore. Now, I mean, if he gets another opportunity, he'll take it, but I don't think there's any more opportunities because tomorrow's a super hard stage probably the hardest of the whole thing. He can be fighting for the GC here if you really wanted to. No, I don't think so. Not with this, not with these guys. I mean, there's he could be top 10,

but he can't be top 3. I don't think so. And we should say that GC is after stage five. Isaac Daltoro taking the lead. I don't know if you notice this. Daltoro is set up yesterday.

Didn't get a time bonus. Pelazari got second and got a time bonus. Pretty clever there.

Yeah, but Daltoro is now in the race league as he attacked. Also Daltoro, he just whatever he needs he takes. He's like, oh, I need 20 seconds. Let me get 20 seconds in a half a kilometer on a climb. Daltoro is leading. Pelazari's second at 23 seconds back. The Tireno Jurgenson who followed Daltoro today is now third at 34 seconds back. Roglic fourth at 44 seconds back. Looks pretty good. Julia Chocone fit at 105 back. So as you said, tomorrow is the mountain state,

the toughest mountain stage. Pretty hard finish 3.2k 9% average to the finish.

“They do that climb three times Spencer. I think if I look, if I look correctly, it's a big”

hole loop they do on the line. It's pretty hard if you look at what's got to be reclime in the at the beginning of the stage already. But yeah, I mean, I think Daltoro has this, you know, and let's he has an off day. Funny actually to see that, you know, he, I wonder what the atmosphere is there in there in their building. You know, so he basically kills his neighbor, his first neighbor in UA, at Tiberney. And now he kills his other neighbor, Pelizari, in Tireno. He seems to get along very

well, you know, it's it's raised, but it must be, it must be strange to basically have the race, you know, and try to take the leaders jersey away of both of your neighbors and your training partners because they train together. You know, they live together, train together, have the same agent. Yeah, there are three different teams. And yeah, Diberney was in the lead and looked on his way to victory in UA. Daltoro didn't let that happen. And now, I mean, we could, I mean, it was not decided

because it was only two seconds. But man, what a rider man, what a killer, you know, the guy just

“knows how to win races, you know, I mean, he didn't win today, but I think he's going to win,”

it's going to win this. And yeah, I mean, he just he dropped everybody, and then Matio Jorgensen was first dropped and came back and then actually drove it, you know, to to get on the podium. So Jorgensen is definitely in good shape. Very good shape. He's not going to win Pairney's, I think, for the third year in the row, but he might be bad. I mean, to I've been so impressed with him this week. I, it sounds goofy because he's in third place, but without that crash,

and he just looked so strong, a comprehensively strong. Very, very well. Yeah. And yesterday, let's not forget yesterday, he did all the work for Wout. Yeah, right in the stage. You know, so yeah, he's in really, really good condition, Jorgensen. One thing about Daltoro, that yeah, he didn't win today, but almost that really impresses me, what 22 didn't have great GCC success until the zero last year, not really experienced daydraiser.

Today just do, he just does what he needs to do to take the lead to take a little chunk, doesn't overdo it, doesn't take too many risks. Let's like Valgrin wins. That's fine.

I'm second. I'm now in the race lead. I'm going to go in in a mile. Like the maturity and

ability to manage a race is it's blowing my mind watching him get better at it by the day. Yeah, now he looks like a really easy seasoned professional. He is already a seasoned professional. Even if it's only his second year, but the guy doesn't make many mistakes. You know, like you could say yesterday was maybe a mistake, but you know, it was two seconds. Well, the, I forgot the mistake was did you see me kind of grabbed a Christian by like his neck.

“And I think he was like, hey, man, you're going to attack inside the funnel. We're going to win this.”

He probably should have just had him leading him out for the podium, right? Yeah. Yeah. Well,

you know, maybe he already knew it wasn't going to come down to seconds.

But that's, you know, and then especially tomorrow, you know, those stages are really hard. You know, look, look who's, look who's back Spencer. Look who's back after in accents. Bobby, it's your Bobby's back. You know, he, uh, he just said he wanted to come on screen and say, hi to our listeners. No, I know, I know everybody loves Bobby. And we've gotten comments that they want to see him again. So here he is. Hey, Bobby, but you think what Bobby needs to take in order,

got to go. What do you think? It sounds like he doesn't care. Well, we'll get to Perry needs it. His thoughts on Perry needs might match mine. That's not been my favorite race to watch.

“Yeah. Well, and we should say, I mean, Delta, we're, well, at the end of this episode, we'll”

talk about the greater state of things. But I also think Julio Pelazari, I've been really, I've been impressed with how explosive he is. Yeah. He's a good climber. I did not know he could ride like this. Listen, he definitely made a big step forward in the offseason compared to last year. He's mature. You know, he gets the confidence of the team. I mean, even Primoz logo, Roglic was working for him today. Whenever he could, he hardly could, but whatever he could, he did something.

And so yeah, he's establishing himself as, you know, one of the, one of the leaders. He had Jay Hindley working for him in, in at some point, extra winner. So definitely, I mean, if you think about where he was two or three years ago, was the young Bardiani? He was on Bardiani, two years ago. Yeah. That's when he got caught, remembering got caught by Pugachar. Oh, yeah, and then Pugachar gave him his losses, right? That's him. Yeah. Yeah, that's him.

Yeah, he had come along recently since then. I know. I mean, he's really, I know we talk about a lot about Paul Sishas and Delta, but he's another guy with circle, like very good stage racer in learning quickly. And also, you know, like making step by step program, you didn't come like to the front, like straight ahead, but you could see that the guys

“improving and he's super strong, super strong. Yeah. How do we feel about so Roglic is in fourth?”

I think he's looked pretty good, but I will say, like 20, like think of peak Primoz. He used to just show up at these early season stages. I'm going back to the

series seasons right now, and just win. He was just win the first stage race, boom, easy done.

The last few years, it's not been so automatic, and I wonder if this is a waning of his ability. Oh, this is not peak Primoz anymore. We have to, you know, we have to accept it. You know, the young, the young guard is coming and Primoz is still there. You know, he has the experience, you know, he's in fourth now and we've hardly seen him, right? Yeah. He's there. But, but, yeah, I mean, I think he will also accept this funny actually. I just saw an interview

of Primoz from the day before the start. I mean, the guy is just something else. As I saw this, this journalist, and by the way, you know, I'm going to say it here. You're a sport. You guys need to do a better job by picking these guys who interview the riders in English. I watched a party in East Entireno, and it is not acceptable. Some of the guys, when they're really on the limit, they just finished and, you know, they, they don't understand

the question because the guys speak very badly English. There's one French guy and one Spanish guy. I don't know who it is, but they need to do a better job. And at picking guys who speak proper English. Anyways, the guy asks Primoz, you know, about the climb of today, the finishing climb. And he said, yeah, because, you know, the 2020 tree, you, you won here, he says, ah, which climb? I don't know. Yeah. I don't remember. Oh, it's that's the climb, huh?

climb where he won the stage. Normally, you know, bike riders are pretty good with, you know, like photographic memory of, you know, places or stages they've won. Of course, Primoz has one lot of races. It's like a hundred race wins. Yeah. How do you get a win? I mean, I've, I've had conversations, you know, now during our time there in Tuscany with Johnny Boonio and, and especially with Chipolini, man, the detail that Chipolini certain, I mean, Chipolini, one of a lot of races,

more than a hundred. More than a hundred. I don't know how many, but definitely more than a hundred. There's certain details that he tells me that, I said, wow, you know, it's, it's, you know, really in their mind, like, you know, like burned in their mind, you know, they, they know all the details. So, anyway, Primoz is a bit different, you know? Sometimes I don't think, you know, sometimes I don't think you know which stage it is, you know? That's true. He's a website

by the way, with merch, it's very funny. Like the way it's written, like he's a legitimately

“funny person. I think they tries to pretend to be boring. We always debating with Bradley Wiggins”

if do you think Mark Cavendish can remember every one of his tour wins or has he always so many

tour stages he's forgotten them? No, the 30, he will remember them. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you're at some people. It's, it's freakish almost. How well they remember certain races, certain details. Yeah. Well, anything else on Trano before we got a pair innings? Anything else that's stuck out here? No, not really. Not really. I mean, we'll see tomorrow. Tomorrow is the, the decisive stage. So I said, unless they'll total has an off day, which is possible. We saw today,

T-Berry had an off day. No, he was, he was, you know, probably. Yeah, probably. It got to be sick. Yeah. Yeah, he had a really bad day. Yeah. Yeah, like sharkingly bad. I think

“what about Webinar? What have you thought of him at this race? I think I think Monarch is in good”

condition. I think he, I saw a few interviews of him also. He was disappointed yesterday, you know, to not be able to win the stage. I think he, I mean, he admitted he made a mistake by wanting to close that gap and then vulnerable, you know, just blew by him. But he's, he's okay with his form. I did speak with some staff members there at the start of Trano Bianca about vote. And they said, you know, that he needed Trano Bianca and Tireno to really get to the top of his form.

So it looks good. He's, you know, he's there, you know, he's there when, I guess today on the climb he was there, he was suffering, but he was up there. Well, there's GC guys getting dropped. Like Richard Kermers dropped. I don't know. I think it says a lot that, you know, Jurgenson was setting the temple and dropping almost everybody and he was setting the pace for a while. So, yeah. Yeah, I think he's, he's where he has to be in terms of his race form.

Don't know what that's going to be for Milassan Ramo. I do see. I do see that he had this issue and then in Trano Bianca and a little bit also in the gravel stage of Tireno. I keep seeing these

like problems with positioning. At the entrance of a critical point, which is obviously something

for Tirio for Madassan Ramo is very important for the classics too. So that's something we've seen from vault, you know, and it's only normal after so many crashes. It's kind of, you know, logical

“that you think twice before you have to rub shoulders and elbows and knees and heads with everybody else”

to fight for your place at the entrance of Gritico moment in the race. Yeah, like stage two, he was climbing really well, but he just started. If he starts in a better position, maybe he's with Vanderpool. I noticed, I remember Rubeilaster, he was really struggling with putting himself in the spot. He needed to be in, well, we'll see you, man, and we'll see how that goes. I will read too much into, I wasted a lot of time reading a lot in the Trano performances and then they know this

advice. I think he is where he has to be. Yeah, no, I agree. I think he's looked, I mean, the man had surgery in his ankle, not that long ago. So then got sick before the opening weekend. Yeah.

Then he did the grumpy saw main, had a puncture, I guess, in the final. So this is basically

his first competition. Do you think he looked a little in the final yesterday, a little too? Like, let me close these gaps for you, Matthew. I let me get it. It's a little over your perhaps. Yeah, I think I think that was he, yeah, he definitely made mistakes there. He shouldn't have,

gone on looked pretty good. Yeah. So, but it a little bit of a potential preview of the final straight at San Ramo, something to think about as we get back at for that. Yeah, and then you have

“something else on Trano before we take a quick look. Um, no, I think we've covered everything Spencer”

on Dino. Okay. Let's take a quick break. And then we'll talk Perry niece. Everybody this episode is brought to you by Henson Shaving. Here's something most people don't think about. Modern razors have actually trained us to press harder than we need to in were shaving. And it's not your fault. It's a design problem. Most cartridge razors have springs and flexible laid mounts. The blade moves slightly midstroke. The cutting angle shifts and you get that tugging feeling. So naturally,

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Feature products include compounded drug products which she FDA does not approve of verify for safety effectiveness or quality prescription required to you website for full details restrictions and important safety information. Individual results may vary based on studies of topical and oral Menoxid ill and finasteride. Okay, we're back, Johan. Now, I would say the usually the maybe more prestigious race of the two, but the one I've not enjoyed as much between

two this year. Paranese led by Jonas Fennigard. I think the largest, let me pull up as margin of lead here. It is unbelievable. He is three minutes three and a half minutes, three minutes,

twenty-two seconds. Well, I've never seen that at Paranese before. Not a lot of races. Usually one

by very, very small margins. Yeah, that's pure dominance, pure dominance. Definitely, you know,

“showed up. I remember Spencer you a few weeks ago, you know, you looked at the program I think before”

he added Paranese and you said you were worried about Jonas Fennigard if he could get ready for the gyro. I'm asking you today. Are you still worried? I don't know. I don't know. That quite sure you've seen enough from him. I think I have so many messages in my inbox of like Kentucky keep up. I'm not quite ready to go there yet, but I think we could like autosim the gyro. I don't even know if we need to race it. Like this guy looks unbelievable. He looks strong,

very strong. So it shows that, you know, he's ready. I mean, it shows that he was definitely

on training. And then when they decided to add Paranese, it's because they knew he was ready. Otherwise,

he wouldn't race. But yeah, I mean, very, very dominant. I mean, first of all, I'm

Bertie Wins, then what's his name? Comter Wins, and then he nails with the time crowd. That was the team time trial. Spencer was interesting. He nails winning. It's been a while. Since they won a team time trial. I think quite a while. So that was a really, really nice win. Of course, you know, if you have guys like darling there and and with Kovsky, and what's the Kevin guy? Kevin

“is a very nice one. But yeah, that's why they wouldn't before little track. But for me,”

the most impressive performance of that day, Spencer was down for who that was wild from from deck out loan. That was insane. You know, he was, he was by himself the last five kilometers. And he beats Visma. You've only finished 11 seconds behind any of us. Yeah, that was crazy. That was crazy. He said, do you see his quote? He said it. I don't know if this actually Mathematically is true. He's like, oh, no, I thought it was easier because I didn't have to go

so slow with everybody else. Oh, that's a bit over the top, I think. Could be something to do it, I guess. Yeah. Well, he's a great time trialist. You know, he did win. He did win the time trial in the Jiro, no? Yeah. You want to stage last year. You know, Dutch champion several times

“already. A great time trialist, but still deck out loan has a great team. They had the best”

intermediate time, by the way. So, yeah, maybe maybe I don't know, maybe he nails beat it. Was that? Yeah, I know I purpose you think like the day was that a tactic like we're going to go out there. No, I don't think so. I don't think so. But the guys were just exploding left right in the center. It was crazy. So, yeah, that was the most impressive performance of that day. And then, spent a wee have stage four unexpectedly. The whole Peloton blows apart with the wind.

We had crashes, you know, are you so crashes out? Magnilty and Magnilty crashes also, right? Magnilty crashes. Is he still in the ice? Oh, that's a good question. I mean,

that was like unlike anything I've ever seen. Yeah. It was, yeah, first of all, it, I, it really motivated

me to have you hook me up with another way to watch races, because not only could we not see anything, because there was everyone's in black range jackets. There's water on the camera. In the US, we're going to, to commercial every 10 seconds. I can't figure out what's happening in this race. Yeah. Okay. Let's look at the start. Let's bring the Magnilty. Also, you're not going to believe this, but the splits in that time trial, any of those 15 seconds faster than the calf on at the T1

and Dan Hoel was actually faster than an any of us to finish three seconds faster. That's crazy. That's crazy. Branding Magnilty is not here. No, no, so yeah, Red Bull was on the front and

I've never seen so many. It was like the whole field was just disappearing, because everybody's

crashing out behind them. Well, I mean, it was crosswind and then there was a downhill and then there was the crash. Unfortunately, the yellow jersey, I used to who was one of the co-favorites, right? Of Polynes crashed out and I had to abandon. But then we saw Red Bull doing an amazing team performance. Finally, they were four riders. There was the two Van Dakebrodders and Dani Martinez and Yona Swinging Art. So Yona's did just sat on, didn't take a poll and nobody asked anything. They just kept going.

“I mean, you could look at it both ways, right? I mean, you could say, oh, you know, why do they do this?”

But at the same time, I kind of think it was okay to do it, because they were assuring the podium, which, you know, I think they know that Martinez is not going to be a thing, a guard. No way, you know, with the stages that were still ahead. So by them pulling so hard to mean Martinez also didn't pull. They took, they kept taking this time. And they basically and less and less Martinez cracks. And by the basically assured second spot or third spot, you know, so in a race where there's a big,

big favorite being the next, the best of the rest is kind of a small victory. And it's been a while, since we've seen Dani Martinez in the front of a big race. It's big for Martinez to get second here.

I was, I would say, during the race, I was like, what are they doing? Have one of the Ben Dijk's attack. Why are you doing this? The more I think about it, I think it's the right. I think if you just viewed it as what, let's increase our chances of winning this race, I think this is the right

move, because if something happens to Jonas is what we've been saying, like, just race for second,

these guys are so good. You're not going to beat them. If something happens to them, then you win. So I think that's just the, from a game three perspective, they're doing the right thing, even if it

“looks odd. Yeah. Yeah. And still, I don't think, I don't think the only thing I don't understand,”

Spencer is, I mean, yeah. I mean, when Jonas went with, what was it, a kilometer ago? Maybe 700 meters, maybe a kilometer ago or something. Yeah. Martinez couldn't even react. He was, he could barely stay with him. I know he could barely beat his team. Well, so you must feel that. You must have communicated with your teammate. Hey, I'm done. You know, I, I'm cooked. I can't get out of the

sadly anymore. It was an incredible heart stage with the rain, the cold speed. But at the same time,

then, okay, what else could they have done? You know, right? So, if one of the Las Vegas would have attacked, Jonas would have followed and then dropped him. There was no drunkenness and a worse. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh. Yeah. If they try to get Q with it, Martinez gets dropped earlier and it's his first position. Yeah. So, yeah. You're right. They needed, that worked out perfectly because Martinez was so screwed. He just had to get his closest possible. Yeah. To the finish. Also, Ben, do you know who the

van Dyke twins used to be on a team with? This one. You know, it's vinegar. Yeah. So, he'll secret a

“reunion there. Question for you on this. I personally like, I liked the way they raised. I think that was good.”

Is this going to burn any goodwill? Like, there was all these people crashing and they're just like, see, uh, we're out of here. Oh, I mean, that's the race. I mean, because they were pulling already. They were on the front already. So obviously, they knew there was wind. It was rainy, you know, dangerous downhill. If you're as a team, if you are already taking action and the action was planned, and it was clear that this was, you know, planned already. If they crashed, you know, then that's

it. You know, I mean, you could maybe 15, 20 years ago. We could say, you could have said, okay, well, you know, but in today's cycling, that's just not the case. Nobody waits for nobody. It is a little funny to me that even in the recent past stages have been neutralized, the pairings that are similar to the stage, and then this somehow is not neutralizable. Well, it's because it was individual superash. There was no massive. There was not a big group of

people crashing. There was two here, three there. Okay, it happens to be the raceline here, but there was not like 10 or 15 guys going down at all at once, and especially, you know, if the race is on, it's difficult to stop that, you know, to make that decision. If it's because of a bad corner, or something, or you could say, okay, it's it's parkour's and, you know, we have to take this into account. But this was on a straight straight road because of the speed, the wind, whatever it was,

yeah, and any of us, we're going to get to what people ever know. Everyone wants us to talk

about the bibs. We're going to get there in a second. But, oh, the vingigard bibs, but before some

any of us gets totally screwed here, because Kevin Vaclon misses the split, like before the TV coverage comes on. He's not that far back. It's like 40 seconds back, but Oscar on leads in the front group. So then on Chase, Oscar on Lee crashes has to change his bike. His summaries are not allowed to then draft back on, maybe because a group's too small, and then they lose that him in the front group, and then they missed their chance to chase back on, like we're really

bad luck there for many of us. Yeah, but yeah, and what we're treated to the site, we get near the end. Jonas, who clearly is very skilled at riding in cold weather, dressing for cold weather, he's kind of disrobing for the final climb, and he noticed he had this rain jacket on backwards. It's a guy that knows what he's doing. And then his bibs are off, and then he puts his bib straps back

“on, and it's over his jersey. He kind of looks like Borat. Do you, do you know the story behind this?”

I was confused. I do know the story behind it. I heard it. So it was a plan, an idea of a good friend, Victor company. So there's a hat you see this, and you know Campano. It says something. No, Campano. So what they did, what they did is, they must have decided this in the bus, when they saw the weather. Campano art came up with this idea. And you know, I want that. So they basically, what happened is he got a lot of clothes on, right? So he had a rain jacket on

top of his race jersey, and then on like backwards. And then on top of that, he had like a bigger jacket.

And the idea was, the idea was to at some point in the race, maybe take it off, you know, maybe take it off on the bike or whatever. And they cut, they, so they cut it in front, and they cut it in the back. So people short super mad off. Yeah, basically, strip it off, right? You could break

it and get it off. That was the plan. The only thing is that, you know, you're not never found

the time because the race was on and it never slowed down. So he was, then he took his top off and then he rode with that bibs over. That was, yeah, yeah, I'm not going to become a trend. Spencer, that, that, that kind of fashion. I don't think I don't think anybody will take that

“as an example, but listen, they stayed warm, and that might be the key to the victory because”

Donnie Martinez was, was he riding long pants? I don't think so. I don't think so. Everybody looked like they were frozen. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And well, actually, you know what, I saw somewhere that Red Bull had special skin suits for that stage to ride in the rain. Also special material like waterproof skin suits. Interesting. They didn't look like they were,

I mean, the Vandeca brothers, I mean, okay, they're big guys, they're Dutch, you know, they've used to,

you know, they're used to riding cold weather, but they didn't look that they were called, these guys, they were going. They were fine. Yeah, actually, look like they, it looked like they were riding in a different weather condition than everybody else. And yeah, there could be something to that. I, it shows you, I think, is a crime against humanity, at least the fashion, that they can hit, but pretty interesting. And it shows an innovative, like a level of innovation,

“like, we need to stay warm. How do we stay warm? And they came up with the solution. I think”

more teams should think like that. I think a lot of teams don't do it because you think, well, it's going to look goofy. We can't do that. But clearly, it worked. I don't think you're not scared too much about what it looks like. You know, you're not kind of guy. He just wants to be, you know, like, warm and safe and fast. Yeah, so he's rewarded for, for that. I still have doubt if you could rip a bit tight off on the side of the road. I think I think so, Spencer, because if you

look, they cut it, like they cut it all the way down as low as possible from the back. So the, the plan was to just rip it, rip it off. And then you're basically taking it off as a leg warmer. Yeah, I guess you just rip it into and then. Yeah, it's interesting. That's something that only companies can come up with. I mean, the guy's just, you know, very innovative. You know,

he just always thinks about details, but it worked. I would say when he got signed to that team,

I thought, what kind of a weird signing? I don't really see it. And then it's really paid dividends. He's on an unbelievable level. Like yesterday's stage, the work he did there, yeah, and setting that pace. And you know, while he was, I mean, and the guy gives it all, like when he pulls off, he just goes in parking mode, just standing still. But I would say 50% of the climbers are dropped already when he, when he, when he pulls off. Yeah, yeah, he's incredible.

Yeah, and he's giving them, he's coming up with their, with their warming technology on the wells in his spare time. Last guy to lead out to Jonas in the deep down trial. Yeah. Yeah, man. He's a very, very useful writer. Very good writer for them. Let's take another quick break and then I have a few questions for you about what this all means. Everybody this episode is rising by gusto. Small business life means hustling and figuring it all out a lot of times on your own. But you don't

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Seamment Mobile for details. Okay, Johan, we're back. So we just went through the races.

“Having all of this in mind. Where do you like if you had to rank those sports top GC writers?”

The currently right now, if the two-to-front starts to start it on Monday, who do you think are the best GC writers right now? Well, first of all, this time they pogature, he's the best in basically everything. And then, if you look at it, for me personally, quality-wise, the two guys who are now leading, Tireno and Parinys are the next two. I think that's the top three. The total probably, I mean, in the tour when he

has to work for that, he will probably won't finish third. But quality-wise, I think he's up there. Yeah, I agree with you. I think today, number one, and by today, I mean, Tate, but I think this is actually today. And Jonas number two, I think this has been a big week. Maybe it's not a surprise. I thought that we would see the shifting of generations where one and so would be being Jonas. We won't know, right? But I personally don't think, I mean, this, the level

Jonas being a guard is on right now. I don't think there's anybody else except O'Gachar who can match that or get better. I don't see, for the moment, I don't see, I use so, I don't see

“Pellitzari, or Ogletcher, or El Toro, Jonas is still a step above those guys. I think,”

would about that. I don't see shots. Say shots, no, no. I agree with you. I think this has been, this has been the biggest week anyone's ever had to announce that they're going to get second to the tourfronts because he looks really good. Again, you know, if you're in second position and something happens to the leader, then you win. Yeah, it's true. It's a why I like Red Bull's tactic so much at this race because I think it's not a bad way to think about it. If he just

shows up the tour ready to get second, he could win. Well, I mean, let's, let's not forget his main goal is the zero. That's her. And, you know, if he wins the zero, he will, we, he will have one all three grand tours before. But it's a super select list. But I'm very, I mean, you're having one, the three grand tours yet, right? So that's definitely a goal for Jonas and then he says, that usually in the second grand tour, he's better than in the first one. I don't know about that,

because I think I think that in the Valtah, I mean, he won the Valtah, but he was not a strong either tour in the Valtah. No, no, actually that Valtah looking back, that is super impressive because he was not well, probably didn't have great preparation and he just kind of punched out a win. Yeah, that I think I read that at the time. I was like, ooh, Jonas is fading. These young guys are coming fast. But it's like, he just was not, it is best. And he's still figured out a way to win.

He looks incredible. I don't know. I would say, who knows, because he didn't go out to

two after the tour last year. If he really, if he wins the say, wins the zero, takes us to a preparation really seriously. I think, you know, maybe he does show up better.

So, I mean, if Jonas doesn't win this, he should win this because with all due respect,

you know, Danny Martinez and who's in third now?

Oh, man. It's somebody. How did I forget this? It's Danny Martinez, you're Steinhouser. Look at him. Yeah, you go. You know, it's only logical he wins and he destroys everybody, right? Well, I guess the way he loses is, it's the member Robert, got had these like, it was like these bad patches of luck where, yeah, if you winning Perry niece and it crashed horribly on the last day.

“That's the only way that he does. Yeah, but I mean, like quality wise, he's a level above”

everybody else, like maybe more than one level. Yeah. And if you look at the competition, you know, it's two levels above Danny Martinez and York stunt, Steinhouser. So, is it George George George George York? I don't know, I mean, yeah, yeah, okay. I don't think it's yet. I mean, not George. So, I agree with you. I think it's today, Jonas Del Toro, top three stages versus right now, but it's probably safe to say Paul says, sure, it's pretty good.

Going to be up there. Yeah, he's got a number going on to where he has. Yeah, we'll see. Did we? I think that's the way it looks like it's more and more confirmed that he is absolutely doing the two of the fronts. I will say just, yeah, I think he kind of has two. Yeah, I haven't announced it, but you can read in between the lines from interviews from the general manager that he is he's on for the two or so, that's going to be interesting. And yeah, that is interesting.

So, he's at a contract at the end of 2027. He's not talking contract extensions with the

“Kathlan right now. I think it's hard. I think it's hard. I mean, like, I saw his agent there at”

Dereno. I didn't talk to him about, say Chasper. If you have a good agent and you have a guy like Paul say Chas, you just sit and wait and let the offers come and then use it. I mean, most likely he's going to stay with Decathlon. I mean, I think he should stay there because that's the French team. They have the, you know, they have the resources. They're going to build everything around and they are already now a really good team, like a really good team. That's such like a different team

from what AG2 are within the past, right? So, I think it's just a way to just increase the price. If he has offers from UAE and Eneos and whoever else has big pockets, Red Bull, then he could still stay at Decathlon, but just for much more money. Here's the problem though, and I have a couple questions for you. So, I just went the last few days going through French employment taxes. Correct.

“If let's say you make a million dollars a year, if let's just say that's what Paul Sischoff's”

makes, he's going to make more than that. A French company, like the Cathlan, has to pay him 1.5

million basically because they pay so much unemployment taxes. So, they have to pay 50% premium

on rival teams to sign their own rider. Is there a chance that they, what's to stop them from going in registering and Switzerland? Do you think they're going to do that? Deep? Yeah, the team. No. No. French company? No. They're never going to go in because it's not. No. So, then you have to increase the budget Spencer. And let me tell you, Decathlon is a huge, but the second sponsor was it called CMA. It's like a shipping company, right? Yeah. I check the numbers. It's five times bigger

than decathlon. Interesting. And you will turn over. It's huge. So, the money's not a problem. So, speaking of money, what's this guy going to go for? 2028 rolls around what's his contract? Like, what's it going to take to sign him? It depends what he does, right? They mean we still need to wait. Let's say he got signed right now. Right now? Yeah. I don't know. I think right now, probably

4 million? Oh, no. No. It's got to be more than that. No. I honestly, Johan, I think if he was on

the market right now, I think he would make more money than Teddy Pugachar. People cannot control themselves around this guy. No. People are out of their money. 4 million. That's not even what Remco's making. Well, look at the Parmaris. That's not, it's not about Parmaris. It's about venture expected. Yeah, it should return. No. I know. But anyways, maybe I'm out of it. I would

an offer. It's going to take a $100 million offer, I think. Like 10 years, $100. What are you watching?

Do these, these salaries are spiraling out of control. Like, why not use so just got a 10 million euro transfer fee? Okay. Well, that's, that makes, he doesn't make 10 million. He probably makes 3 million. Well, it goes into the same like just the same package. So say shots will, well, not, he'll not leave mid-contract. So yeah, it's going to take a sock a money to get them away from the Catholic. I think. Yeah. I mean, I would say conservatively, I think it could be

conservatively, five years, 50 million euros. So it's been a year. I think so. No. Dude,

this people can't control themselves around this guy. Okay. Well, I listen. I've never seen

good for him, but that makes no sense economically in the, in the business model of cycling.

“No. And I, well, that's what a few wins the tour this year. You can be talking a hundred”

million year. He's not going to disguise the limit. So he's not going to win the do it this year. Oh, well, what, well, well, probably not, but let's say what if we've got Sharon Jonas get hurt. Okay. Good. Well, then there's still others. He hasn't beaten yet. I think you think more highly of the others than I do. Well, listen, the guy's obviously super good. My, my question is how much can he still improve? And he's super good. You know, already he's top of the world right now. So if he

if he doesn't improve, he's fine. You know, he's up there. He will improve because of experience getting more endurance, you know, knowing his body, knowing the races. But I think the margin of progression is limited. You know, if set it before, you know, if you if you compare him with the 1920

“year old Pogachar, it's completely different story. Pogachar and let's not forget Pogachar when he”

was 20, he won the tour de France. I understand. Completely unpolished. And Pogachar is super polished. The thing though about Sashas and improvement, I have concerns about the improvement as well. But we're watching a guy just dominate Toreno Adriatico. And that guy got dropped off Sashas's wheel after Sashas pulled him around at strata. It's already, will say, Sashas pulled Del Tor around. Yeah. Did he can drop or did Del Toro just not dispute the third place in the second.

I did, you know, a lot of old circumpetitive people. Do you know? I mean, what's the image is Spencer? I mean, I'm not sure, but maybe the Toreno was completely out of gas, but let me tell you, he didn't drive very hard and Pogachar and they said Sashas did not attack. Look, and look, to me, Sashas was surprised that the Toreno wasn't there anymore. Which is possible? You know, you can completely be dead and say, okay, you know what?

But yeah, listen, let's, you know, we can debate about this forever. Say, Sashas, the real deal, you know, he's 19. He has a future in front of him, but there are other riders who have proven already much more. And Sashas will probably prove the same, but he hasn't yet. The problem with proving yourself is then you know, and then you lose the magic. Like Wujualemeda, we kind of know what he is. Yes. Yeah. And so it's hard for us to imagine something

amazing where Paul Sashas can be anything you want him to be because he's not raised a grand tour

“yet. So maybe he's better than Pogachar. That's part of the intoxication. That's why he should”

sign big deals when you're young athlete before people. You could just say that Sashas right now is on a higher level than Bukachar was in his first year, but at the same time Bukachar won three stages at the front and his first year in finished third, we'll see. But what say, Sashas, I mean, you can't compare the two to France with the Vuelta. Pogachar is better than Pogachar in 2019, but the thing that you're pulling at that's right is, well, Pogachar got a lot better between

2019 and 2020. Can like, can Paul Sashas. Pogachar got a lot better between 2025 and 2026. Can say Sashas keep improving. Yeah, that's a big question. Where's one are you so after this? To me, this is a little got to be deflating for a little trek in him. Came in with a lot of

you crash out to me, we won't know. We know how long he's out. Not very long. He doesn't have any major injuries. He has nothing broken or I expect him to make. I don't know if it was on his program, but he could be back for Catalonia. He missed out. Is it on his program? It's not his best country. Oh, he looks pretty hurt. I guess they didn't release anything. Well, yeah, I mean, this and he has no major injuries apparently. So I could have been, you know, the shock of

the moment and feeling really horrible and not being able to ride your bike. It is possible, right? I mean, nobody can feel from a distance, what they guys, these guys feel after hitting the ground and it's a combination of physical pain and then mentally seeing everything is cape and

“I think it's reassuring to know that there's no big injuries, nothing broken, nothing, nothing thorn”

and and it seemed that everything was going to be okay. I think next week he's back to training normally. And then it's all for the tour, right? That's the big, I guess the Asian and then the tour front. So someone sent this question in and kind of, I think I have an answer in my head, but I want you to answer it. I don't remember saying this. This is from Onhill, Angel, Hover, it may be Onhill. Okay. So I don't remember saying this. He was saying, after Pagachar lost, that must have

been 20, 20, three in the tour, second year in a row. We were saying like, it's so like Pagachar, Jonas is just a better GC rider. It kind of, I guess the proof at the time was that Jonas was better,

Pagachar maybe was never going to win the tour again. And then, of course, Pagachar goes on

to completely retool himself as a rider. Hit a second apex is now better than ever. Is it possible for that Jonas is doing this right now? And if not, why not? Yes, yes, but he's not going to be all of a sudden better than Togachar. But this and I mean, I hope, I hope he's on a higher level

“and that we see a great battle. You know, that's what we want. You know, we don't want the tour to”

be decided after the first mountain stage and then basically, you know, the result. As a spectator, you know, as a team director, I've been in that position quite a few times and I kind of liked it. As a spectator, I don't like it too much. Let's hope that that's the case that Jonas is that has stepped up and looks amazing. I'm curious to see, you know, the analysis of power numbers and times and stuff to see what this really means, because as we said, you know, we need to check

who he's racing against. Well, and also that people are pretty taxed by the, it's always heart racing

at Pyrenees, you know, with the weather. I don't know if you're getting a whole heart race. It's not a nice, it's not a nice race. I never liked Pagachar. It's not another nice race. It's always miserable. Look at the tomorrow that they're talking about alternating our scanceling part of the stage, because snow is coming in. So we're not probably not going to see a big mountain stage tomorrow. Which actually goes to show you why Jonas is so good. You know, it doesn't leave it to

chance, which is like, let me get time when I can, because I don't know what's going to happen later in the race. Yeah. So just a couple facts, Jonas is 29 years old right now. When Pagachar lost the

tour for the second time he's 24. And we didn't know it at the time, but he also wasn't as professional

as he is now. So we changed his program and he just physically got older and got closer to his peak.

“Yeah, I don't think Jonas is a growing boy. I think he's he's probably at his peak.”

And he is getting to an age when we see people to stop winning the biggest race. It's hard to win races over 30 in Procycling. I'm not that he's going to be bad. I just, I don't know if he's going to keep, he's not going to make a massive jump most likely at that age. You know, he can improve a bit, but not massively. No. Yeah. So I think you're going to know, you know, Spencer that, you know, it has not been easy for Jonas in their last two years. You know, he had some issues with crashes

and injuries. And this year again, right, training, but yeah, I mean, if he can stay healthy and not crash, and he should have, you know, a really good preparation for the giro, which I expect him to win. And then we'll see how he recovers from the giro. And how he said to the friends, it's the same

it's simple. Just like that. It does actually remind me of 2023. I don't if you remember this. He wins Ogrin Camino. He loses Paranese actually. Win fast country wins Adolfine and wins the tour. So it actually he reminds me of that writer, the 2023 early season Jonas. Yeah. Well, thank you, anything else you're on before we take. Oh, also, we should say, any else. Grenadiers, new co-sponsor, new title sponsor.

That is sponsored. Yeah, that's not company. Yeah, are the figures public. The, well, I mean, I've seen somewhere that I read, I read an article that Jim Radcliffe, the owner of the company, the owner of the team is willing to give away the naming rights. He's still going to

“finance the team. It's not like emails has something to sell to people to consumers, right?”

It's, they don't have a product to sell. So he's going to keep financing the team. But let his new

title sponsor in for five years and reportedly it's a $100 million euro pound deal over five years.

So 20 million per year. So that's, this is an extra 20 million to the budget. I don't know if emails is going to decrease their financial support to the team. But it's definitely, I mean, I'm surprised. I'm surprised. I mean, I think two years ago or even last year, I think I, I think on podcasts, I said, I expect emails to graduate now and just team go and not the case. So it looks like starting at the to the front, so ready. The team is going to be called net

company total energies. It's going to be difficult to get used to. I just got used to any of them. I'm still stuck on team sky. What happened is actually weird that it's going to take a lot of work to get used to that. It gives them a lot more financial flexibility, a lot more. And financial flexibility for what? And to what end you may ask, well, there could be a pretty talented GC writer coming available at the end of 2027.

There's already a few French writers there. There's this book alone. There's go down. There's

“Axel O'Ralls. There's another one I think. So they could go for Paul Seychast.”

Well, they have two. I think it's two big sponsors, net company, a big Danish company, and then total energies French. So big after Paul Seychast. You think, however, that the financial resources of Decaplon and what's it, was it CMA, no? Is it CMA? A CGMA? I think it's CMA. Yeah. They're up there. They're up there with emails. If they want, CMA, CGN. Yeah. Yeah. They rolled off the tongue. You had a huge shipping company.

Everybody said McAtlom. Nobody, nobody talks about the second sponsor. But they're huge.

And if they have to, they will step up to try to keep Paul Seychast. So it's going to be an interesting development. I expect him to stay there in 2028. All right. You heard it here first folks. But this also just gives anyos instead of asking for Jim Ratcliffe for a bunch of money to fund the team. Now they're kind of self-sufficient if they

“need extra money to sign a generation talent. They can. But I think it just gets them running on”

like smoothly. Well, with your predictions, Spencer, that's not going to be much left of the 20 million. If you think that that Seychast is going to be paid 10 million per year. Did you see what? People are losing their minds. Who runs the group palm a team? Marc Madillo. Marc Madillo. I think he said, we've not seen a Frenchman this dominant since he know. Is he forgetting their Frenchman just won double world championships? Not that long since. Spencer.

Madillo needs to tell a story. So he always plays into what people want to hear.

He's, you know, he's a dinosaur. That thought that was kind of a little hell of Philippe Rager. Pretty pretty nice in French writer who, yeah, I mean, he took the tour by storm in 2019. Come on, guys. Let's see Paul Seychast started tour before we declare it better than all of Philippe. Are you on anything else before we take off? That's it. We'll see each other on Monday. I guess to recap. Did I know and

buddies? Yes, we'll be back on Monday to have something's going to come up. We think this is straightforward, but something will happen that we'll have us talking. Hopefully, you know,