Was That the Best Climbing Performance of All-Time? | TdF 2026 Stage 19 | THEMOVE+

From the seat, didn't stand up, didn't attack, it just accelerated from the saddle.

“And just rolled up up the west, I think he stood up like two or three times when he was doing easy attack.”

Otherwise he did not stand up, he was just always in the seat in the saddle.

Yeah, it was, it was really the perfect climb. Everybody welcome back to the move. Plus, I'm Spencer Martin. I'm here with Johan Bernille. We're breaking down stage 19 of the Tour de France finishing the first of two finishes up out to us.

This one up the famous 21 switchbacks with Teddy Pagachau winning with a record time record. A sent smashing the old record by over a minute. I did not see that coming. Super impressive. 15 seconds from the breakaway Richard Caripass third, just a few seconds behind.

Set Coast fourth, set Coast fourth. And then the first rider of the GC group is Rimco Evan, a pull 229 back in six place. Really good ride with EZIC Del Toro 7th, 241 back coming in four seconds ahead of Paul six. So that GC battle for the final podium spot and white jersey still raging with the less than 30 seconds. Separating those riders pretty interesting little battle there.

We'll also preview stage 20, but Johan, I'm sure the day started pretty formulaic. Break it's away early. Break builds up gap in the valley. Break has EF pulling as hard as they can to extend Richard Caripass's gap. So we can try to win the stage.

It almost works. You got Lenny Martinez in the mix there. But UAE was stronger than we thought. They had some riders to keep the gap under control. And of course, other GC teams came forward to protect their own interest with Lenny Martinez,

shooting up the GC leader board and Richard Caripass as well with getting the break and getting the gap.

“But Johan, what was your major takeaway of the stage?”

Well, Spencer, you know, leaving aside unbelievable performance of Pugachar. I think the beginning of the stage, we were all curious to see what was going to happen. You know, there were certain rumors about illness within UAE. UAE as a team being weakened, which we have seen the last few stages. And the day was actually a stage where they would be put to the test.

And it was clear that from the beginning, you know, the race started basically on a climb.

It was straightaway uphill. And you can't say that it was a break away sponsor was 43 riders. So whoever had the legs, whoever had the legs and wanted to be in the break was in there. It's as simple as that. And so, yeah, I mean, I was curious to see what was going to happen with UAE.

But they managed really, really well the situation. You know, I think after the first climb, they were only one guy missing. I mean, of course, melting had to abandon yesterday, but they were only one guy missing. I think it was Tim Valenz. Or Florian Vermeer, I don't remember one of those two, but then one of them came back.

So that big group of 43 riders went clear. Got three, four minutes. But there was only a few riders actually riding there. It was basically EF. And at the beginning, little trek.

“And then one guy of Baraina, I think, right?”

Was it Tiberi? I think we did a lot of work. Because Lenny Martinez was in there. Was Jordan Jacob out in there also? Or was it not you?

I don't think so. I don't think so. I think he's bucklein' in for, yeah, for Taylor. He's not messing around anymore. Yeah, so UAE, it was clear that, you know, they were in a decent situation.

I think they felt okay with the situation.

They could manage the first group.

And then, of course, as we expected and predicted yesterday, there were some guys in the front that were a threat for the top. I mean, they were already in GC, but they were threatening other GC positions. And top 10. We saw, what was it?

Was it Q36.5 coming? It was a little track was, no, no, little track was later. There was another team, I don't know. Oh, was it, was it total energies for Jacob or something? Anyway, musta been.

There was help from other teams. So, basically UAE, they did use their guys. They used Vermeersh and they used Pollitt. But they didn't have to use Rochardner until later on on the, the climb before the of the West.

And so, by then, it was clear that there was going to be a chance for the stage

I think they started up the West with three minutes, ten behind the breakaway. At some point, I thought that the winner of the stage would come from the breakaway,

especially Karapas, because Karapas was amazing what he's doing.

Got up after his, you know, he's tried so many times yesterday, and unbelievable right, spend a lot on the stage. And today he was in there again, sprinting for the KOM, plus having ambitious to win the stage. And he almost got it, right?

Yeah, yeah. I mean, did they make a mistake, though, Johan should Karapas. I know that Lenny Martinez bothers a lot of writers, and they don't like being in a break with him. Should Karapas not open and tacking it all on that final climb,

“would he have been better off if they just struck a truce?”

I think so, but, you know, with Lenny Martinez, it's difficult, because that's Lenny Martinez's style of racing. I know for a fact that he's not very well liked in the peloton, because of his style of racing. You know, it's his choice, it's his right to do that.

I mean, he's a smart writer, he's not a very popular writer. And I think Lenny Martinez wanted both, right? He comes, he gets in the top five. I mean, he didn't know that while he was going up up the West, because it was going to depend on where I used to was going to finish.

I think, but he, I think he went from 7 to 5 today. He's in the top five overall, which does, yeah, does suggest he should have been working harder, because he has the most to do. I mean, that should have been a big goal frame.

So he wanted to do that plus when the stage, and it's really upset, got up us, right? It's so kind of past started to attack. And, you know, after two or three times, Lenny Martinez

was able to get him back, then that was basically the key

to the Le Polgachar victory. If they would have written steadily, Borgachar probably wouldn't have caught them, or he could have caught them, but already on the more flatter, flatter part, yes, hung up with him, I'm with him.

Yeah, kind of interesting to think about. I mean, or if he's further, if they're further ahead, does he just go faster to catch them? I don't know, but it does seem like they wrote it in the most inefficient way possible

with Pugachar coming up behind them. There was a lot of stopping and going, you know,

“I mean, I think Cus had to write the way he was writing,”

but it was pretty clear that Cus was not as strong as Karapas. You know, he got dropped, and every time he could come back because then Karapas and Lenny Martinez were looking at each other. But it's also a good way to write about the West. You could eventually win like that, but yeah, today was not the day.

Pugachar was, yeah, no, but this was unbelievable. It's amazing to see when he left so early with a little under 12K to go, I think he went. From the seat, didn't stand up, didn't attack. It just accelerated from the saddle.

And just rolled up up the West. I think he stood up like two or three times when he was doing this attack. Otherwise, he did not stand up.

He was just always in the seat in the saddle.

Yeah, it was really the perfect climb. Because he weighed, they go in fast. He lets them other people lead. As soon as the pace goes down, it was like he was on a training ride. Yeah, he right, he didn't stand up.

There was no dramatic attack.

“He just lifts the pace, but he never really panicked.”

You know, even when he catches out of me, he's like, okay, out of me, it's just going to work for 2K. Probably a plan they had. He leaves him. He's not thinking I got to go faster, faster, faster.

He's just paced up perfectly. And even when, you know, stuff was getting crazy there. When he's getting close, carapaz attacks. It looks like, oh, no, is he not going to catch these guys. And time didn't panic at all.

Then he Martinez is on his wheel. He doesn't panic. He knows he just has to get to that final little ramp before they get to the finishing straight. And he drops them there.

It was the poise of the performance was really impressive. Yeah, well, that's probably the way it looks to us Spencer. You know, like, we say, oh, you know, okay, it's fine. He's like, he has everything on the control. I can tell you, that's not, that's not how he felt.

That's not how he felt. It may look like it's, you know, I mean, it was a beautiful effort. You know, he looked like he looked perfect on the bike, super cadence.

Amazing. But man, let me tell you, these guys are hurting. Like really hurting. That was a full, full, full-out effort from Pogachar.

I mean, two days ago, this guy was dead. Like dead. The stage after the stage after the time. Yeah, you can barely, barely ride. Yeah.

I mean, the fact that he was already in the break away was a good sign.

“I think that was probably something that they wanted to, you know,”

do on purpose, so he could get a head start in case it really got out of control on the second climb because the second climb. What was the name again, cold in Hawaii? That was a really hard climb. It was like 7K.

Yeah. Eight, eight and a half, nine percent. That was a hard climb. But Spencer, before we keep talking about Pogachar and the final development of the stage,

what about this unbelievable, strong guy, much better. Yeah. I mean, unbelievable. For him to make it in that group over those first two climbs. I mean, that that second climb man, he's not supposed to be there.

He is not supposed to be there. And he's there. I mean, that's if you were to my Pogachar not having any teammates or having one teammate after that climb. And that climb is, I mean, here I'm trying to get the stats.

It's 7.3K at 8.4 percent, Johan.

Yeah. That's really steep. That's hard for a climber. Yeah. It's crazy.

And then I don't talk of that. I've talked of that before. I don't remember which team came to the front, one team came to the front. At the end of that climb. But the majority of that kind of one climb called, you know,

he was actually Derek G setting the pace for mudspederson on that climb. So he was not just trying to hang on. Derek G was setting the pace, which is mudspederson's whatever threshold or whatever. Yeah.

And until a kilometer and a half from the top, mudspederson was in second position on that climb. Which, I mean, just blows my mind how he fought back after, you know, a super disappointment two days ago where he, you know, kind of, there was the green jersey we started to be in doubt.

Yesterday, he made a really good step by taking those 25 points. But today, I think he sealed it right.

“I mean, it's still, I mean, yeah, I think there's because on the stage in Paris”

is it's not a, it's not like a sprint stage points wise. I think it's 50 points or 40 points. I don't remember. It's 50 points. I thought it was 70, but it's 50.

Anyways, it doesn't really matter because if, if it, if it will be a sprint, then it should be Phillipson. I don't know if you can make it. Pederson will be there too. It's not like Phillipson will score all the points and better, and Pederson won't score any points.

Yeah, same goes with the intermediate sprint, by the way. Yeah, and even, I mean, I wouldn't be shocked if he's in the move tomorrow. Thanks up more points. Three straight days in the breakaway. When is the sprint, when is the sprint tomorrow?

It's pretty hard. So it's, well, it's doable. So it's after the colded aqua fair.

So the basically the stage starts at the base of the aqua fair,

and they descend down and the sprint's there. So he could get it after the quarter fair. Yeah. No, I don't think so. It's only 5.2% for Matt, Pederson.

Pederson. No, no, no, no.

“No, don't, don't, don't look, don't look at that way.”

It's, it's much harder than you think. The quarter fair from that side. First, first they climb the glondon, which is the glondon, which is part of the crowd of fair. It's one side of the glondon.

If you look at the profile, colded glondon, it's pretty hard. Is that where it's filled? Did the Jonas drop? Pagachar and that.

No, that's the grano. Oh, grano. Okay. No, this is called the glondon. It's a hard climb.

And so there's a few little downhills. And then you go to the, the last part, brings you to the top of the crowd of fair. Yeah, take a flanking climb. It looks so weird.

It's hard. And it's high altitude also. It's over 2,000 meters, right? The grotto fair. It is over 2,000 meters.

And Americans might be listening to that same. Wow. Bobby, Bobby, she Bobby, saying, that's not that high. I brush my teeth at 2,000 meters every day. These valleys are low.

Like low. Like sea level low. So to get to 2,000 meters is a lot of climbing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not all that.

Yeah. It's quite like grotto fair. It's, you know, the tomorrow's climbs are all like super hard, real out climbs, you know, the crowd of fair, the telegraph, the Galibia is super hard.

And then, you know, coldness high end,

which is basically a backside of the west.

And it just has big, it's like a, like a massive, and there's a big loop, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's not like these two climbs in the beginning of today's stage.

I mean, I think he can be in it. I think he can be in it. He doesn't need to be in it. But if he's in it. Is it work the effort?

Is it work the effort? Well, yeah, it's a good question.

“It saves himself and, you know, has something left for parents, you know?”

That's probably the problem, you know, on just right there. You did, you did a logical thinking about effort. That's not Matt's pattern since way. It's not, this guy's not afraid of anything. It's like, I don't think people quite realize you think,

oh, Lance Armstrong must sit around to be in off for gotcha. The person, everyone in the studio is most in off, is Matt, Matt's better son. Hmm. Because what he's doing almost defies comprehension.

It is unbelievable. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And just, there's no, there's no calculation to his rides.

Just, like, Mad C, Mad Smash. Like, I don't, I'm not living for tomorrow. I'm just getting through the day. It's, and then also inspiring stuff.

Spencer, even today, I mean, like, so first he's in that break,

takes those 25 points, and then gets back, and then starts to pace the peloton. I know. I know. I mean, like, how valuable can a rider be, you know?

I know. I know. It's wild. What did you think about all this pacing from non-UAT teams? People were frustrated by it, but it kind of makes sense.

You can't avoid that. You can't avoid that. I mean, there's so many teams who have nothing. Yeah. They have to one stage.

They don't have a jersey. And they're going to fight for 7th, 8th, 9th or 10th place. That's all they have left. And, you know, the all these riders accept the guy who is there in 7th or 8th or 9th.

“All these other guys, that's just the only thing they can do for their team.”

That's, that's left to do. So they're going to do it. And that's, you, that's not, I mean, that's as a team who has the leaders jersey. You can't play with that. And it, it comes to you automatically.

These, these kind of assistance from other teams without, you know, even asking for it. The worst, it's very hard to win a stage.

It's always been hard to win a stage at the tour.

I assume it's never been harder. Do you know the worst rider in terms of UCI rankings to win a stage at this race? It's sore in a barren school. I think he used ranked 63rd. The same in that call.

Yeah. There's only two riders out of the top 50. It's Tim earlier in barren school. Mm-hmm. Sorry, Schmidt in barren school.

And Schmitz, a really good rider. So, yeah, you're right. Like if there's fewer chances to win stages, you've got a fight like hell for 9th, 10th, 8th place.

“Like these are big places that you have to defend.”

So that's why you get that kind of funky polling. Um, let's take a quick break. And then we'll talk about some stats, some crazy stats in the climb. Some stuff that obviously put got chart, but then there's other riders that Rhodes shockingly well.

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Go to lagoon sleep dot com slash to move and take a two minute quiz use code move M o v e for 15% off. Remember lagoon sleep dot com slash the move lagoon the marginal gain you've been sleeping on. Okay y'all you on we are back so out to as the record. I don't know I think we said this up top before before we talk about number Spencer just one lot one last thing you know so so. So you know we heard these and you know we saw these pictures and I saw a lot of.

Commentators on TV also and analysts talking about you know good there's something wrong with Pugachar because he has yesterday and today he was riding in the black shorts. Yeah, I got so many messages from friends and family that do not follow cycling about this is like spread like why I guess it is kind of an interesting story if you're just living life. It's it's because it's so magnified everything in the tour but you know so I saw a close up of of Pugachar from yesterday. Riding in so it's actually it's a a a so provided skin suit. So it's it's a it's some teeny so they ride with a brand called PC.

And so him and the total ride with the same skin suit and it's a different fabric it's a mesh. And apparently this different fabric a so has made only with black shorts and not with yellow shorts that's the only reason behind it there's not there's nothing. There's nothing going on at all. It's so it's fascinating to watch how people see the conspiracy theories are flying high you know. Even even on our own set there was many conspiracy theories they say and communications in the lack of information people create their own stories.

And this was a great example do you know operation meant meet Johan where the allies were trying to invade Europe during the Nazi occupation so they dropped a dead body off the coast of. It was either Spain or Sicily with fake plans for an invasion to throw the Nazis off the set. I kind of was like this like was this was this a big trick to get everyone thinking he had the poops and he couldn't perform well because.

“He seemed to be pretty good today and you know I would I would have said for example you know you have to.”

You know once I saw it was a skin suit. Yeah, if you would have been riding shorts and shorts you can say maybe you know maybe it's not usual in him maybe there's something in your own but if it's a skin suit. No, no not at all because they hit out to us after a fast day of racing like almost no. There's been no place to attack people are complaining there's no attacks where you're going to attack because you're going so fast into this climb. He takes off doesn't panic the old record it's harder to try to stuff down than you'd want it to be apparently Marko Pantani 36 minutes 50 seconds in 1995.

I got you goes 35 minutes 26 seconds so quite a bit faster well over a minute faster my calculations and there's some other calculations is a great website that tabulates every climbing performance like that ever happens.

And we both have him at 7 watts per kilo for 30 little over 35 minutes at his current weight that's about 445 basically 455 to 450 to 455 watts for 35 minutes at 64 kilos.

I think it's probably the best climbing performance of all time Spencer I mean you know I saw the van was 1900 some close to 1900 1890 or something yeah the Strava segment is a little higher than the official segment because it goes it stops at the top of the. See I'll pull I mean 1937 VAM is also you know relative it depends you know if it's really steeper steeper climb and it's more constantly it's going to be easier to do a higher VAM up to us it's steep and it's hard but you know you have the flat.

Turns where you know you can increase the speed but obviously there's less elevation in the in the turns and then also the last two and a half k or are not a steep anymore.

“But I think it's close with you know up there with the best I mean what would be the best climbing performance ever other than today.”

I would have thought it was probably pentani on out to us right. That's it was it not plateau the bay from two years ago. I don't know if that was as good as pentani's here I'll just look through here plateau the bay I have him at. 1887 VAM.

Okay six points I mean that is like six point nine watts per kilo for almost the same almost the same basically it's what she's five minutes longer 39.

Okay okay yeah so the fact that he was doing similar watts for five minutes more actually maybe maybe plateau the bay was better maybe this wasn't a great performance. We don't know I mean there's also many different factors that go into this what if there was a little bit of a headwind that's that's going to count against you you're not going to credit for that with our calculations so. Yeah yeah we wouldn't know for sure unless we saw as power meter and even then sometimes you don't know because the power meter's not that great but play a plateau the bay probably would be up there I mean can you think of any like what about content or it.

For a beer like what was his watch. Yeah I don't know I don't know.

“Yeah I don't know that was that was a good performance that was a good performance to yeah yeah for sure.”

But this was so good that so RIMCO Evan a pull finishes RIMCO great ride by the way finishes to 29 back it's funny that he finishes to 29 back and we're saying amazing ride.

Definitely the second fastest on the day because the guys he caught were over three minutes in front of them and then finish a few minutes behind them so RIMCO is a second fastest time in the day. Thirty eight oh five and you said this was the seventh fastest time of all time correct yes yes faster than Lance Armstrong's famous attack from the bottom time right. Yeah so the first the so today today today so the level got charged the best 2006 then it's second third and fourth best is Markopontani Markopontani Markopontani three different times.

Then fifth is Lance in 2004 the time to his time trial so just you know from just from the bottom then. Sixth is Jan Ulrich in 1997 when Pantani won also. Which is the year. Ulrich won the tour and then seventh is RIMCO. Eight is Lance again in 2001 and 9th 10th and 11th is Izaglio Toro Matias Kilmosa and Paul Seixa so.

These guys are going fast man. Miguel what do you do Ryan is now in 12th in 12th place. Yeah crazy. Yeah here even I thought maybe Jan Ulrich and door member and door of 1997. Yeah I was like maybe that was a better but or didn't even that was 447 watts of 6.8 watts per kilo.

So this was even better than that and that was one of the best climbs I've ever seen. Pagachar is good what have we learned today? Pagachar is good. Great perhaps the best RIMCO is very solid.

Second best rider at this race confirming he's finishing really strong his theme is good.

I know they had numbers still at the bottom of the West and you know it's getting confidence. I mean he was trying to ride away from the Toro and Seixa and he did. And he didn't need to right. Yeah exactly so. Now the morals you know the big test of course for RIMCO because it's the long high mountains.

“But I think he's going to stay where he is.”

Yeah he looks solid. I would be shocked. I was thinking about this as I guess he's going to crack on the warfare and then even blow. Not with how good he rode on up to ways. Yeah I just don't see him.

But since Plato de Salison. It's a different rider you know. It's completely shocking considering. Yeah change his mentality change his mindset change his confidence. I heard an interview with Belgian TV after the stage you know he feels good.

You know he started really conservatively and he went because he started to feel good. He said you know when. I don't remember well.

“Which theme I was they got long I think was pulling and he said that I was really easy there.”

I was really having it was easy for me when they got long was pulling. And I mean it's shocking because he was getting dropped in the LSS. And then the message and trial. And he was like what the heck happened like how. Whatever he said he planned this to be the best at this point in the race.

Clearly it's worked so far so. Yeah for sure. No listen. That's off to him and to the team to you know have made this decision. And adopted his you know racing schedule and work towards being in top shape.

And top shape in the last league of the tour amazing.

Let's say this let's say he holds second he gets second at this race.

“Where does this leave him leaving the tour like what's his next target for GC?”

I think I think trying to win another round tour trying to win Giro or Vuelta. Knowing that knowing that as long as Pugacha wants to go for it he's not going to win it. And then we also need to take it to account okay, you know for sure. I mean incredible performance of Ramco but let's not forget that Jonas is out of the race also. Well that was my next question.

If Jonas is still here would Ramco be second. I'm not sure man. I mean I think he I think he I think he had a chance. I think Jonas was. Unless he also improved for the last week but I think Jonas looked like he was.

Like he was I mean he was there he was the second best.

But he was he looked like he was on the limit. Every single time that he had to yeah go for it.

“I'm not yeah I think Ramco probably would still be second which brings up an interesting question of let's say.”

You know what are we any of these guys do next year so Jonas probably doesn't do the Giro again. So then Ramco probably should do the Giro to try to win the Giro. Because I don't know knowing the Giro knowing the Giro I think the Giro will probably adapt. The course they should like a long time trial in there 300k long time trial for him to go to the Giro. Yeah and then you win that and I mean I think he could be the second best.

Stage racer in the sport if he comes out of this year well. I don't know how many times you have said that he was a bad climber. He was a bad climber because he was bad at climbing Spencer that's not true as not true.

He was never he was he was he was he was he was he was inconsistent.

He was unable to climb at the level needed to finish on the podium of stages for money years for multiple years. Spencer. This is 2026. 2024 Ramco even if we were starting to do the front. I know and then it's only two years.

I don't think he podium the stage race between then and now. How is that even possible? I mean clearly it's all between the years mostly with him right. Obviously obviously obviously he's a huge engine. I think the weight is definitely a big factor the fact that he's so lean now.

And also you know the way he goes up the climbs by riding his own tempo is very efficient. I only see him respond once during the whole two of the fronts to do accelerations on the climbs. And it's when he won on plateau to sell its own as the only time he responded to an acceleration. Where he gets into trouble without those if he's too heavy and then on the cold of the quaffaire if he can't match the pace. You can't lose the wheel on the first hc climb of a 3 hc climb day.

So that's where he's getting trouble at times in the past like last year when he got dropped first climb at the day. You know that's still you know I mean we all talk about his weight. You know and so apparently he said you know he said that he was four kilos lighter than his close to four kilos lighter than his weight in the spring. But he's only one keto lighter than he has ever been. I know yeah you know which was probably in 2004 in the two of the fronts but he was also super light.

And he was super consistent so clearly he can't be consistent when he yes his mind to it because he's one a grand tour and finished third of the tour.

I thought there would be bigger gaps between these guys but Del Toro he does take four seconds.

“So he's trending and he's actually trending up but people view him is trending down.”

Del Toro is nine 42 behind Pugachar and it's a huge gap by the way. Paul six us 1006 behind Pugachar. So they are right there next to each other.

What did like what do you think's going to happen the rest of this race with these two guys who finishes third.

I think that race is not over yet Spencer. I would say advantage advantage del Toro. But because every time there's been a last minute like on an uphill finish I think the Toro has actually finished in front of sex as I think. I don't miss taking but today for example again as it was sex has who has done the most of the work in that little group behind.

“And Del Toro has been sitting on the wheel and he has I mean of course first of all you have to be able to sit there right there was only three or four either left so you have to be incredibly good.”

I would say advantage del Toro because he's not the one who has to attack he can be just supervising and sex has needs to crack del Toro but on tomorrow stage. You know it's it's a high altitude stage right I mean it's this it's actually the first the only stage that we really go to the high altitude mountains right now as I think up the west is the highest one we've done so far. It's actually not true so. We've had before to tomorrow we've had it. We've only had 1.6 kilometers over 2,000 meters and that was all in the Toro lay.

Yeah and then tomorrow we have 17 kilometers over 2,000 meters. The more it's a different beast the more it's a different beast so. I think that race is not over yet I mean it's not just for the podium it's also for the white jersey which is the same the same battle right. Yeah whoever finishes on the podium will have the white jersey yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah so. That's going to be an interesting interesting race.

I'd say advantage del Toro.

Six us is still there and anyways whatever if he's on 3rd or 4th amazing performance of still 19 year olds will success.

That's crazy to think that you know we we all had our doubts and you know saying I you know he shouldn't go to the tour. It's too early. Yeah well he's there and he's not going to crack and he's going to be either 3rd or 4th in the 2nd of France and his first ever 2nd of France. And so yeah I mean France can be hopeful. They have to wait for a few years.

But at least until until Paul Gacha decides and then depends you know I mean. We assume that sex off is going to improve he's going to get more and more experience he's going to get stronger. So in theory that should be the next to the France winner.

“I mean, I think there's more progression there than for example.”

Remcook and half or a minute to kind of depend on the course of course but you know as soon as Pogacha is gone. They're going to make a course for sex us. Of course designer 2032 in 2nd of France, Paul 6 us. You know I I don't think people understand what there's someone in our studio today who said oh man is this a bust. But I almost think that's good for him to get 4th because it's just it's just low enough down and like it's quiet ish.

It's not like podium you start to get a lot of noise but can you explain to people I don't think the regular person or even.

Big fans understand never having done a grand tour before being a teenager and finishing 4th the 2rd of France that's yeah that's like going to the moon that is so hard to do.

It's crazy almost incomprehensible. And also especially the way he gets to that 4th place is not like a guy who has gotten a head start wasn't a break away. Got like 7/8 minutes and then hangs on he's been racing whenever the racing within between the big favorites was going on. And he almost looks better now. No special circumstances no special circumstances at all so yeah.

And then his team also his team is doing amazing also I mean he's never been isolated he's never been alone there's always been two or three riders not much to take it out by the way today he was in the break and then assisted him on the west for a while. Pretty young was really good you know teach the note was there for a long time so.

Stronger guys to assist the post success in the future.

“Yes it is the whole thing but team's great it's really mind blowing so he's 24 seconds behind El Toro.”

Do you know how much time he lost on stage one to Del Toro in the team time trial. Thirty twenty seven seconds so that's the difference right there it's the stage one team time trial yeah. I mean it what blows me away is he looks better right now than he did in Barcelona and for 19 year old not to degrade that.

Yeah I'm sure the course of three weeks is I'm going to yeah what we're what we're watching is incredible.

You want anything else oh yeah if you talk poke poke out poke it on jersey one point care passes in the lead now that if we got your second at 90 points care passes 91 points valentine paripontra 84 points so everyone's right there each hc climb tomorrow has 20 points the. So who it's probably whoever gets in the breakaway tomorrow or definitely whoever gets in the breakaway and gets those climbs along the way is going to win the. On the two on the two first climbs on the on the. What's it quite a fair and they like it often maybe even got to be got a passing by the pants are going to be the break they're going to sprint for it.

And what's the second place. Great question so 20 points for first 15 for second. Oh well okay. Yeah so you can lose carapaz can lose. Two of those well not let me get the standings up.

No he can't he can only lose one of them oh my lord this is going to be tight but then. Who like and then it's going to be a battle to get up the seren because. If paripontra gets dropped early and carapaz goes over and he gets like third place on the final climb then he would probably win probably won't be pagachar but maybe we should talk about this in our stage preview to have anything else. Yeah talk about today's stage.

“I think we've covered most of it you know I mean I think today we saw an amazing.”

An amazing performance. We said before I think I said yesterday that if pagachar wanted to break the record he could he did he didn't break it he destroyed it.

One minute twenty two seconds faster than pantani. That's yeah that's that's incredible. That was only one guy who could do it was him there's nobody else who can do this. Yeah we should also say he did destroy the record. The more I think about it the more I'm impressed with Marco Pintani like the way he lived his life and the machine he was on.

He had a lot going against him. That's a fast time considering he was probably.

“Different times different times you know what also different equipment you know everything is different.”

So Tani was an amazing climber he was he was unbelievable and he was you know iconic personality you know the bald head.

You know if you look how popular he was and still is I mean he's a myth. Especially Italy. And you know he didn't win that much you know he won one year of Italy and won two of the France. I mean okay it's not nothing and in the same year by the way. But yeah you right he didn't he didn't win that three three zeros and three tours or you know like this like you know from.

From as one multiple tours zero of what a contador has one multiple you know Pintani's much bigger. Personality. And Tani is more towards stage wins though than from and okay the really impressive thing about this same thing I was him out with carapaz. These guys they have no sprint no time travel ability there's actually not if you go through and look at stage wins so amongst active writers carapaz is. There's only three writers ahead of them if you filter out stage wins from sprint and time trials and all of her mentors.

So if you figure you can't win a sprint and you can't win a time trial it's actually really freaking hard to win a stage with the two of the fronts and you want eight of them. I mean I assume eight of those nine nine nine. Those are just the hardest stages of every tour right. Yeah and you're not even really a GC writer and you win the two of the fronts. That's like super impressive.

Oh you mean Bontani one eight. Yeah eight four stages and then eight zero stages and we figure he cannot win any sprint or time trial. It's actually hard to imagine doing that.

Also wild when you hear about he won the zero and ninety eight. And he was just he was just party and on the beach just party on the beach and his friends like hey you want to go to the tour. That's probably a bit that's probably a bit of a stretch. I don't know man he did. I remember because I was at the start of that tour.

I did that tour the fronts was my last year. And nobody was taking Pantani into account in the first part of the stage or of the tour. He was sitting in the back with his team around him.

You know whenever it was crosswind he was in the back and for some reason the crosswinds never came to you know a good end and he always came back.

And then we got to the mountains and he was flying.

“Do you know where he was placed after the first rest day of that tour at fronts?”

I'm when I guess he was like six or seven minutes down. Yeah he was eight and a half minutes down forty seven overall in your right total after thought you've not seen him one time. But nobody was nobody was counting on Pantani for the win the tour. He was not in great shape but I mean he came in good shape. And then he did that unbelievable attack on the Galilee by the way.

We were going to do tomorrow. That's where he went and he took like six or seven minutes out of all week I think. This is why we're talking. He's still talk about him because we got some interesting performances.

It is funny though. He didn't win that much compared to other writers that we never talk about but tomorrow's stage twenty.

Marco Pantani would love this stage. It is 170 kilometers with 5,400 meters of climbing. That's 18,000 feet. That's not a lot of kilometers. That's like a hundred and six miles.

And they're cramming in 18,000 vertical meters. We start on an HD climb. The cold of the quaffaire descend down. Oh yeah, let's do the cold of the telegraph. That's 12k at seven percent. And then we do the the Galilee A. So 17.7k at seven percent tops out at twenty six hundred meters. That's very high.

And then we do the coldest soren which is the back way up to out to as 13k long at seven point two percent.

So almost as hard as the climb we did today. And then it's not over because there's two more climbs. There's a one kilometer climb at seven percent to send down. And then they climb, they descend down under the switchbacks. They did today.

And they do 4k at six percent. The last four kilometers off the day stage are the same tomorrow. Yeah. So they like rejoin the finish. And so that's going to be really tricky.

“If you want to bet on this, go to next bets in XT bets dot com slash bad outcomes.”

And we'll show you the best price for everything where you can bet the best odds. And it's you're going to need next bets because it's going to be an extremely extremely hard race to control and win and predict. And the favorite in the Betty market is Tadipagachar plus one 50 with with Richard Caripass plus 175. Set coups plus 800, EZic del Tora plus 1200, Rincola and a pull plus 1200, Tom Pickock plus 1800. Schummo is a plus 2500, Johan, I'm glad you're here so I can hand this off to you.

How do you think this is going to play out and who's going to win? I don't really have any idea. I don't know if tomorrow Bogotra is going to really obsess about wanting to win the stage. It's also not an easy stage for a break away to get enough time because it's so much hard climbing. Yeah, so it's going to be climbers in the front, but it's not going to be a massive group of 43 riders like today.

And if it's if there's a big group, it's going to be straight away split all all over the, over the product fair.

“So I think the break will be in reach all the time. It's going to depend on it. You know, like most of the stages, it depends what Bogotra wants and what UA wants to do.”

And then, you know, depends also who's going to be in the break away. I think a break has a chance tomorrow break. I mean, good climber. I'm saying that because I think that Bogotra will worry more about the total development of the world. I think after today's performance. I agree.

I know that he really wants him on the podium. He really wants him on the podium. It's like a goal. And you know what, fair play to him. You know, I mean, it's like, okay, he's one five stages now, he's leaving with seven minutes and 11 seconds. And he knows that whatever he does to the autoro, that's investment and investment and the team and they have a great team atmosphere.

He's got up off from the break. Yeah. So Karapas, he's going to be up there.

“I think he's going to be getting K11 points. He'll probably win the K11 jersey.”

Hope everybody got it on that yesterday at plus 100. I'm pumped about that. My concern, though, is Karapas is up in that break away. He's an eighth place overall. He's going to start becoming a problem for little trick for Bahrain. Yeah. The cath one probably not, but teams are not going to like that. He's up there and they're going to start pulling and do they get it too close and just put got your win. That would be the concern. Yeah, that's that's that's the right way of thinking.

And then it's still going to depend if we got your ones or not. Well, and even this is such an actually, I really like the stage design because let's say they crest the final HD climb. But over, you know, and it's actually pretty complicated because you have two more smaller climbs with the sense if Pagachara is only Del Toro with them does even go for this stage win. If he's in the front group there, or is he just, are they thinking about their GC positions? If you have a set so much situation as today, I think Lenny Martinez or Karapas probably win the stage because they're going to be willing to risk more Pagachara would be.

So, yeah, probably if we just think about it simply, who's strong enough to get in the break and to get over those climbs? It'd be a small group of people. It'd be subconscious for Karapas or Lenny Martinez. Maybe that's it from the break away. So Lenny Martinez won't be in the break away. So probably Richard Karapas. So Pagachara is a wild card. I'm going to pick just a hedge all of this. I'm going to pick Teddy Pagachara plus 150 accidently wins the stage.

Yo, what happens? Crazy thought I had should Paul success go in the break away. What would you win? No, no, no, no. I mean, getting the break Paul. No, I mean, if he goes, then Ramko's going to be there and no, no, no.

My guess the problem is Del Toro would just get in the break with him.

He's just, I don't be on his wheel. I don't know. It's not like if it's success moves. That's going to be on the wheel. Ramko's going to be there. So Pagachara would be there. So it's not going to be a break. So it's going to be pretty interesting to watch these guys tomorrow, especially in the final 20 K once they crest the call to Seren could be some KG explosive racing between Del Toro and success.

Because if one, you know, let's say Paul success can let's say he gets 15 seconds on Del Toro tomorrow. And he goes in the Paris and we assume Paris is not neutralized nine second gap in Paris.

Yeah, they could be racing on the cobbles for the for third place to be fascinating stuff.

Yeah, yeah. That's it's interesting. Yeah. Well, let's do ventantrevia. So you can get gets a bad and get rested up for for the stage that we're so excited about.

“So if you want to play ventantrevia, you got a ventamacene dot com slash the move answer your question and put your answer into the question I'm about to give you.”

And if you get it right, you'll be entered to win a ventum, not a ventum bike, $5,000 toward a ventum bike of your choice and get the road bike. The NS1 just redesigned. The GS1 also been recently redesigned to fit basically mountain bike tires, but it's essentially like riding a road bike highly recommended. So go to ventamacene dot com slash the move to put your answer and we will announce the winner on the move episode on stage 21. You can also use the code the move 10 to get 10% off any bike while you're on the website.

Yesterday's question was who which legendary spanniered one on the summit finish from yesterday crushing Eddie Merck's taking eight minutes. Who was it Luis O'Connor? Yeah. Ninth and 71 did not go on to win that tour of France. Is that right, Johan? He crashed out.

He crashed out the few stages afterwards. Eddie was basically already in a position that he had lost the tour.

But he attacked in one of the period stages was really bad weather and pushed and pressured O'Connor. Oh, can you crash in a downhill? He got up and then he got hit by another rider. I think I told the story a few podcasts to go actually when we talked about or share my life. Then he went on to win. I think two years later he won the tour in 1973.

“I think which is I think it tour Eddie Merck's either abandoned or didn't participate. I don't remember.”

I think yeah. Might have abandoned. But today's question. Stage 20 crosses. The cold did cold do Calabier which earns what distinction in the 2026 race.

But stage 20 crosses. The cold do Calabier which earns what distinction in the 2026 race.

If you know the answer, go to www.ventamacene.com/themove to be entered to win a new vento bike.

Anything else you'll want before we take off?

“I think we've covered everything Spencer.”

Alright, and then tomorrow's our last show of the tour because we want to one after stage 21 because we'll be too busy at the post tour parties.

We'll be socializing and Paris. We won't be able to make it on. But we'll be back with Bobby tomorrow.

“We have to break down the hardest stage of the race. I'll see you on.”

Okay, thanks. [BLANK_AUDIO]