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I think it's going to be very difficult for Volaring to shake her, you know? I mean, she has the Vuelta Spania in her legs. She did already two really steep climbs there, whereas Demi didn't. Not she did the Angliru, or she actually lost the Vuelta on the bragging.

And then she did that other stage today before, which is also an incredible steep climb which she won.

So, and she looked pretty solid when Volaring was putting her effort on that stage, she won.

“So, I think there's a good chance on the bragging with the Giro.”

She just wanted already four times, I think, in the past, in her earlier career. Everybody welcome back to the move, plus I'm Spencer Martin. I'm here with Yohan Bernal. We are breaking down a bit of racing from Tour de Waulani, and there's your Italian women, and then we're going to get into the news of the week, which is the management shake-up at Little Trek with Andy Schleck, coming in as CEO of the team.

Gershin-Eman Leaving, Vizmalisa Bike, and a pretty shocking move seemed to shock even Vizmalisa Bike's CEO, or General Manager Richard Pluga, and he's taking a GM or head of racing roll at Little Trek. So, Little Trek, major, major shake-up, Yohan, no one more informed to talk about it than you, so I'm excited to get your thoughts on it. Before we get into it, how is your trip back to Madrid? Get back on the bike, I hope not.

“I already got back on the bike, Spencer. So, when we traveled on Monday, right?”

Yes. Anyway, my trip was shortened in New York, of course. So, yeah, I already got three

rides in since then. So, and yesterday, we did our annual trip with some friends that I'm always

doing from Madrid to Sigovia, which is a very nice on the road bike this time, to through the mountains, and then finishing at the Aquaduct, over the famous picture, and then a really nice dinner, Typical, Typical Segovian Dinner, which is lamb, and I recall that, I recall that I guess more baby suckling suckling? Yeah, suckling pig. Yeah, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, so good day, good day yesterday, and you stayed in the night and then you rode back?

No, no, no, no, no, no, it's it's it's it's it's we are we are organizing this like as we should as you know old guys who are you know semi retired, you know, we are the day before we we put a car there. Okay, yeah, we ride in the morning, we arrive, you know, just after the noon, we have the hotel to shower and rest, and then we go to dinner and drive back home in the night. So, okay, that was nice.

“130 kilometers more or less, I think 2,500 meters of elevation. It's a bigger day. Yeah,”

for me, it's a big ride. Yeah, yeah, you're going to need to need to be anything more than that, man, that's like perfect. That and doing it on the road has got to be you did it about bike last year, that's a lot harder. We didn't twice on the mountain bike already. Yeah, it's different completely different. I mean, both of them have the charm with on the road, it's the road bike is definitely not more comfortable. Yeah, yes, well, you're going to you're going to disappear before our eyes,

you're in your race fit fitness. Wow, ready for the tour, gear up for this guy's never racing any

more ever, like, you know, never putting a number on my back anymore. I've made that promise to myself. So, it's going to stay like that. Whatever I do, I do, I do it for fun and so on my own pleasure. Yeah, I can I can see the merit on that. Well, since since we've gotten back, it's a little jarring because that, you know, we're so focused on the zero, we travel home, a little bit of a zero hangover and then race the race. He just keeps keeps marching on. We have tour double. Well,

on me going on this week, five day race Monday was the first day. Today was the final day, been all of her from George sin cap. He's team monitor venture pros cycling wins two stages. It's their first row in, I believe, on stage to win in Europe. I think first they won in tour of the Gila. At the Hila, I think they won a stage there. If I'm not mistaken, they definitely won a stage there. Yeah. But this is their first win in Europe. And it's, I mean,

it's nice race. It's not an easy race to develop only. Pretty good field. You know, pretty good field. There's some really, you know, good team. I mean, a lot of those there in Aios is there. There was, there was a lot of world two teams there. NSN, you name it. I mean, many other. So yeah,

quits until last year in the States. But definitely fast sprinter man, winning these two stages

“and the overall, by the way. So that means that every day he had to be there. And then he won”

because of the, the bonification, I guess, today. But these were not easy stages. So that's a pretty

good, pretty good result for him. And for the team, Mattets, yeah. In their first year of existence,

not bad, not bad. No, and to find a rider like that, 29. So it's not like it's some young guy that you're picking up. And he won tour of America's dairy land last year. That's a crit stage race. People will know. What is that? It's a really good race, actually. It's in Milwaukee. It's almost constant in the greater Milwaukee area. So it's relatively easy to get to. You keep them flying to Chicago. Very convenient. Very easy to stage yourself there. But you can basically

race like 10 to 15. It's like something like 15 crits in 15. So what's the most race in where these guys so participate? Are the guys who say that well two riders wouldn't be able to follow them or something that is that they're going to be a good, good, good, be a little chatter like that going on. And I'm going to say Ben Oliver's win. This race is not probably not helping that chatter because it's like, hey, well, he was a win in every race. He got six

that the Willow Cedar Creek Classic last year. I beat him. So I could be winning this race against netcup and the Nios. But clearly, the thing about Ben Oliver is he's a very fast friender, but clearly, very good rider all around because, you know, I was shocked watching this race how different it looked from flanners or where we were. It's a very small country, Belgium, but, you know, it's pseudo-moutness when you get into the Willow and region. So to stay with the

“peloton on those stages, you have to be a very good all around rider. Yeah. Yeah. No, I'll do the”

Willow knee is, I mean, ultimately it's been, it's been in the sprint every stage or reduced

bumpers that have been a few crashes that have disturbed, you know, the results of the stages a bit. But, but man, you have to beat her every day, you know, and is it, who was second? Was it ridership, ridership and friend of mine? Is he in the lead race? Yeah. And it was kind of a thrilling end to the stage today because Riley was in the race lead. He was sprinting, but the gaps were so close to basically whoever won the stage unless Riley got second or third was going to win the overall.

Yeah. And then there was a big crash. Only a few riders made it through Ben Oliver and Delibert, two of them. Ben Oliver wins, impressive to beat Arne Deli and a sprint. wins, wins the overall in time bonuses, it gets two seconds advantage over Rylishian and then five seconds advantage over Deli. So basically it came down to a time bonus sprint on the final day, tragic about the crash. The crash looked like that did not look like a fun crash.

Guys were really messed up from that. But to have a stage race come down to a sprint at the end, it's pretty cool. Cool. Yeah. And also what I was really impressed with, Spencer was the stage when yesterday of Arne Deli. Oh, my lord. You know, so let's, let's call back a little bit. So we know that Arne Deli started the 0, sick. So you know, he had one that race in Valonia just before the 0, which was his comeback to competition. After a few months of, you know, had not having race,

he got sick, started the 0, sick, had to abandon after what three days, four days, maybe. And then comes back to a Valonia, which is his home region, you know, Arne Deli is from Valonia.

“And initially it didn't really work out. You know, he, I think he had a flat on stage one and he had a crash.”

It was involved in one of those crashes. But man, yesterday, that, that, that win was, I mean, I was impressed. We had Riley Sheen of in front, right? Was it? Was it him who was in front? Yeah. So Riley clipped off the front somewhere and picked up bonus seconds at a last sprint. Oh, yeah. We had Lauren Speedy behind him, who's, you know, a very strong rider, a very strong rider. And, you know, they come into the fixed cameras and, you know, it, it looks like, because she and has this, you know,

it was 300 meters to go. It was uphill a drag, really bad weather. And, and you see that Biffy can't make it. He's not going to catch him. And all of a sudden, you see the least starting to sprint from the first position of the

Peloton on the pedals, on the hood too, incredible display of power. And, and there's, there's only

him who can do that. I mean, and then I saw the information on, on the lotto, a lotto Instagram account,

and, I mean, you could see when he went here. And I saw finally he peep passes,

rider she hit with, but 20 meters to go, probably. I mean, he was so, yeah, it was so close to the finish. It looked impossible if you, if you look at 300 meters, he said, okay, it's not just no way, this guy wins. And, and it looked impossible and he did it. And then, you know, falls on the ground, like, he was empty, really empty to me, Spencer. You know, we, we remember this, this win, he had in Canada, one of those Canadian races, where he was also a long uphill sprint, and he

came from whatever 20 positions back, and, you know, started to move his way up, and that was impressive. But I think yesterday was more impressive. Not the same rivals, but I think that performance, in my opinion, is, there, there are not three riders in the Peloton, and today's Peloton, who can do that.

“That's why Arnodoli is, you know, so popular as, you know, as a promise, you know, and he has this”

unbelievable potential. Lots of, I know, lots of teams want him. Unfortunately, you know, there's no consistency, you know, it has lots of ups and downs from what I gather, and, you know, I have nothing to back this up, but, you know, he does have the reputation, apparently, of not being too serious, likes the party quite a bit. During the season, and in the off season, I've heard, so, you know, imagine if that guy would really take care of himself and be super professional, how many races he

would win. I don't know. I mean, maybe, we all know, he's not going to stay at a lot of intermarshe, he looks like he's going to two-door if I'm correct. I don't know if that's going to change something. He's going to be under the, you know, under super variance of Fabian Cancelara, who was a very serious worker. But, I hope he can get it together, man, and if, I mean, I don't know if he's listening or if somebody else is listening, you know, he, this guy has so much

“talent. And just, I've no, live for your job, man, and do whatever you have to do, and you've”

got to win so many races. I mean, if you can do a thousand lots for a minute, the guy's the

limit basically. The thing is, he seems to, like, unlock these performances and everything they call,

like in the military football, but it, like, messed up beyond repair, which is, like, everything is gone crazy. You think, like, there's no way anyone can catch Riley, and then he just kind of goes to this place, and he's not even in a good position on the bike. It's just, it's primal. Just, like, I got to get to that finish line fast, and you can see what he's capable of. I mean, it is, I mean, I don't, I'm in no position to judge. Even when I was riding my bike seriously,

I probably was about the same weight as Arna Deliva. When he looked at a guy like, well, in art, like, he is given everything, everything. Yeah. To look the way he looks, yeah. So, if you, you know, if you can lock into that type of commitment, someone like Deli, you could do anything you wanted. I think. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he's also known for, you know, I mean, if you look, he looked the way he, he rise the way he sprints,

the way he moves on the bike, a rope, your rope power could be more efficient. I mean, my opinion is his style, but he's known to basically break a lot of material. I mean, we've seen him already, break pedal, even like, break wheels, you know, clipping out of his pedal, you know, winning peddling with one leg or to finish,

“he does break a lot of wheels and bikes. And that's how much power he has. Yeah.”

You know, like, someone like Bradley Wiggins, you know, so smooth on the bike, you could imagine, that's what the equipment wants. And then you watch Deli, he's the operator. Hey, if he had you, if he brought up a good, a good example, Bradley, it was like, pure art on the bike, you know, doesn't move just the legs smooth, you know, like, very efficient. Deli is pop, pop, all over the place. Yeah. You can have more, two more extreme styles, you know.

But anyway, listen, I'm glad it's to him for this amazing, amazing win. I was, it was, you know,

it was nice to see. And so sorry to Riley, I still can't get over that. I thought for sure, he was going to win that. And then it cost him the overall, but also congrats to George in the team. I mean, that's a big, and been all of her. That's a big GC win for those guys. So, that it's great to see. Yeah. These races are no joke, man. I mean, you, to win there, you have to, you have to be a solid bike rider and solid team support. So, yeah, well done. And I don't know how they

Not probably not an obvious guy to sign, 29 years old, been racing crits in the U.S. And they took a chance on it. Listen, Spencer, it's the proof that, you know, it doesn't necessarily

always need to follow the actual trendy pattern of, you know, it's super young talents

go to a default team when they're 1920, turn pro and then, you know, there are other ways, you know, there's that's, I think it's hopeful for a lot of riders who are knocking on the door or have not been seen or being remarked by people, there's always a possibility. Yep, I think it's a great testament to that. Well, let's take a good break. And then we'll talk about the Jardatai women before we get into the hottest, the hottest part of the episode at the end.

We'll be right back. Everybody, this episode is brought to by Lagoon Sleep. Everyone is obsessed with buying speed, expensive wheelsets, ultra-arrow bikes and skin suits, tests, and then when tunnels, and then they sleep on a pillow, they've had since college. Come on, that's absurd.

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“out of bed at 430 a.m. to catch the start of these zero stages. I think about the riders at the”

zero. Race in all day, day after day, and then being expected to show up as strong the next day.

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Go to lagoonsleep.com/themoove and take the two-minute quiz. Use code move M-O-V-E for 15% off. That's lagoonsleep.com/themoove lagoon. The marginal gain you've been sleeping on. Everybody this episode is brought to you by Square. Square is some big news to share. Their latest releases event, they've rolled out a wave of new tools built to help local businesses run faster smarter and more profitably. I was just at a local coffee shop in town that used

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not only the hardest race stage of this race, but maybe the hardest stage of any women cycling race have ever seen over the -- over the finestro of finished accessory or exact same finish as stage 20 of the zero. Men's last year, the GC after seven stages is Anna Vannebregan. I did not see that coming. Leading the race by minute over Demi Ballering and then in third is Antonia Nita Meyer from Kenya. And Anna Vannebregan got her lead on -- there was a really hard time travel stage

for basically just a climb, time trial, like to give you the stats. It is 7 and 7 and a half K at 8 percent.

So a serious climb. Vannebregan just absolutely torches. Demi Ballering, who you would think would be perfect for it. Like you just look at Demi on the bike and she's kind of like Bradley Wiggins, just no wasted motion. She was third, one on nine back and then she came out the next day. I believe

Bennebregan. She does win the stage with a pretty impressive sprint. Takes some time bonus is back

but it's basically just going to come down to this -- I would assume the stage to whoever wins

this stage I would think wins the overall. It's been a little hard to watch this race because it's been finishing at the same time as Wollonee. So I've been kind of split screening and have you've been following this race you want. Yeah, I've seen some stages. The time trial was impressive. You know both both Anna Vannebregan and Demi Ballering with Demi Ballering was third, right? Was it the racer who was second? Yeah more than the racer was second. Yeah. So the World Champion

Time trial, but she did it on a normal. The majority of the riders did it on a normal bike.

“I thought then I assumed that they had to. That's how many people were doing it on a normal”

bike. No, no, no, no, no. I mean it's a climb. I mean it's basically a climbing stage. I mean seven, but do you say seven kilometers at eight percent? Yeah. That's yeah, that's for Time trial bike. That's not easy. Both Vannebregan and Envolving with it on the Time trial bike. I think I mean what's what really impressed me in Time trial bike, super light normal wheels, light light, low profile wheels. What really impressed me with Vannebregan was how long

she was, I mean how I mean every time we saw her, she was in the Time trial position. Yeah,

on the Time with an incredible high cadence, which is her trademark. I've always been, but

it was super, super efficient. I mean not going to make a prediction or anything because tomorrow stage is completely different, but I would think Spencer Vannebregan who takes a minute on

“everybody else, including Volaring on that climb. I think it's going to be very difficult for Volaring”

to shake her, you know. I mean she has the world as Spania in her legs. She did already two really steep climbs there, whereas Demi didn't. You know she did the Angleru, where she actually lost the World Cup on the Bragan. And then she did that other stage day before, which is also an incredible steep climb which she won. And she looked pretty solid

when Volaring was putting her effort on that stage, she won. So I think I think there's a good

chance for on the Bragan wins the Jiro. She's one of her already four times I think in the past, in her earlier career. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's quite a while. Yeah, this rider Antonia needed a mile from, was it Canyon SRAM? Yes. She looked good. She looks very good. Apparently it's a huge talent,

“a big potential. And she is. She also looked really good. So I think that's for sure the podium”

on the Bragan Volaring and need a mile. I don't see anybody else coming in there. I would say based on what we saw in the Tantra, I would say advantage on the Bragan to win the Jiro. It would be impressive. I mean, what she was kind of, she was a dangling a little bit on stage five. But if you just think about the Tantra performance clearly, her climbing is good. She's put a minute into Demi Volaring if she's a bad climber on a climb and Volaring unless I

miss remembering kind of her problem last year at the tour was the hardest climbs. Like the Madeline. She lost time and it was like, yes, some at finish. Yeah. Yeah, but I thought the Volaring was was 100% in the tour last year. That was something that off, something off. I don't know if it was after that crash or there was something off. She was not her usual self. The Volaring this year, Spencer, I think is, is on a higher level than last year, last year's

Volaring. And then I'm just trying to go back through her. So she lost the 2024 tour also climbing, but that was that she had that crash where she kind of broke her tailbone. If I'm remembering, right? Oh, yeah, that's when she lost that one to constantly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So she wins the stage enough to as, but Nia Dom is close enough that she wins the overall. By exactly four seconds. Holy smokes. Yeah, one edition. I'm quite curious to see how this plays out.

It's only a 166K. So it's on HMX. I assume it's going to start a little bit later. And I mean, it's, well, probably still be kind of a long stage though because that climb, what time and Yates won this year on it. It was he didn't about an hour. Like maybe one or one. So the climb could be well over an hour. And then it could be like a two and a half, three-hour stage, even though it's only a hundred kilometers pretty interesting to watch. That's for sure.

ever seen anything this hard in a women's race. This is going to be. I saw the volume was up here previewing it. This is a few weeks ago. So she knows what's going to happen. Like she knows what's

“up, but there could be riders in this peloton that have never ridden this, don't you think?”

Yeah. And then also, I also heard, I mean surprisingly, that was kind of a shocker for me that I don't have on the bragging that one that time draw, she did not recon it. She didn't recon that time draw, recon the time draw. Wow. She just went off video, whatever, you know, a value viewer and information from a coach who had reasons to do. She looked perfectly dialed on the effort, and you know, didn't, didn't worry about knowing the time. Did. So I'm thinking about the Odecom

time trial. So Pagachar did it on a, on a road bike. And then I mean, you mean Pagaguda. Very good. Yes. All right. Odecom was there before. Pagachar did it on a road bike and then everyone else did it on a time trial bike, right? Uh, like Jonas and you want to do it on the road, like Rampco, Lipowitz, Roblish. Yeah. So that is the trendy thing now is to do the time trial, the uphill time trial on time trial bikes, I guess. And you would think though someone maybe

would look the Pagachar and said, hey, that guy did pretty good. Maybe we should. Yes, probably

what some people did. You know, I think it depends how comfortable someone is. First of all,

“the weight, you know, you have to get the weight down. Yeah. Do the minute. That's number one.”

Yeah. I mean, speaking of weight. I mean, we haven't talked about the zero women since since it started, but it was a stage one or two that, uh, Lauren and we was got this qualified. Yeah, we haven't talked about the race for, uh, having a bike that was 20 grams too light. And so the the minimum weight is 6.8 kilos, uh, which is already a standard that the UCI introduced. It's already 25 years, probably. Um, I think it's time to change guys at the UCI. I think the 6.8 is a bit, you know,

technology has changed. The materials haven't proved. Uh, there are, you can easily have a 6 kilo, 6 kilo bike, which is safe. You know, that's not an issue. Uh, 6.8 and especially for smaller frames and stuff. Uh, the way the way the the bikes are now, um, there are certain brands that you can have to add weight to get to the 6.8 because they come in lighter. Well, I thought this was

“up first. I think it was viral marketing on specialized part, but clearly not because she was,”

you know, it was really upset. Yeah. I mean, and then there was this debate also, which is up. I mean, I've seen it. I mean, it's a long time ago, but I'm going to guess that the technology of the scale of the UCI has not changed, you know, you know, those scales are not calibrated. You know, I mean, it's like, you, you weigh it three times. You get three different measures, you know, so, um, I remember back in the days we had, we had obviously a scale. So we, you know, we were

tried to make the bikes 6.85, right, to have a 50 gram margin, but we always, uh, especially before

time trial. I remember the time trial of up the West in the tour. We went like way before the start, we went with Lance's bike to the UCI scale to make sure that our scale was okay. Yeah. And it came out different, you know, it was just above the limit, but it was not the same way there as our scale. So I think that's debatable, you know, I don't think, and first of all, I don't think that the mechanics of, uh, as the works would have made that bike so much on the limit, and on top of

it in a flat stage, but, you know, it doesn't really make that much sense. So that was, that was not good man. That was that look ridiculous, sending, you know, one of the best riders home, uh,

in, uh, in an important race. I mean, I always think about people from the outside, right, who are not

connected to cycling, and they read that, uh, rider excluded from the race, because her bike was too light. Yeah. It's not a great headline, you know, for people who are wanting to take an interest in this sport. It looks a bit of a circus. No, it definitely looks a bit of a circus, and then you don't want to get into this. I may be ashamed to say it, but then an Italian wins the first three stages. No, it's fun. But it looks bad. It doesn't, you know, they're not helping themselves by

is that even if I've never heard it, have never heard it. And then now the precedence terrible,

what happens if Visma makes a little mistake, Yannish rolls up and his bikes to light on a stage.

“Well, I mean, you need to make sure that your scales are the same. But, you know, I mean,”

you could do that when it's a time draw, for example. But, you know, if this is, this is just a random control, you know, basically, so they stopped the riders. After the finish, they put a tag on it, and then you have to go and wait the bike. I did read however that SD works and specialized or suing the UCI over this. So it's going to be interesting to see what the outcome is. So yeah, it shows you a lot of rigidity in the thought for the right for those officials.

Well, you could come to a pretty creative solution if you thought that you have to say, you know, okay, the rule of 6.8 kilos is there for a reason. It's the same for everyone. You know, if you're under, you're under. I've read that the three measurements that they waited several times and that was a considerable difference in the three times they weighed the bike. But anyways, at the end of the day, it was 20 grams under. So it was what 6 kilos, 780 grams.

Well, it's, what's interesting about the save, it's there for safety, but I talked to a couple different bike manufacturers this last winter. And it's essentially being exploited because they say,

we can make the most aerobike in the world that basically hits that minimum. So there's a reason

for us to run a non-erobike, which makes the race as faster, which probably makes them more unsafe. So this weight limit is it's making all the teams ride ultra fast aerobikes, which probably does when you put 150 of them 200 together, probably does make them go quite a bit faster. Yeah, yeah. Well, let's take a quick break, Johan, and then we'll be back to break down this little track, manage, Michigan. Everybody this episode is brought to by Calder Lab. Calder Lab

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individual results may vary based on studies of topical and oral monoxid ill and finaster ad. Okay, Johan, so just to get people a quick overview before you before you go off on this. So Luca Gertelino, Gertelina, was the Gertelina. He used the GM of little track for as long as I can remember. Maybe since it was Leo Park track, it's been a long time. Well, he came. He came when I left Spencer. Okay. So was that when it was radio shake still? Has 12 and of 2012? And then it became

track, so I go for it. Oh, yes, it's a few years period. Okay. Yeah. So he's been there for a while. And this off like this winter, there was I'm trying to remember there was some, like some bubbling and the management and each slack and Frank Schlecker brought in to help with the women's team. And then, you know, we're having a little, you know, we've been talking about it all zero.

“Like a little track, they spend a lot of money and they then made a lot of moves, like”

pretty aggressive moves in the office. He's a not only signing writers, but legal buys the team, legal changes the team from an American kind of Belgian Italian team to a German team. Like you said they even moved the service course to Germany from Belgium. There's a pretty big move. You don't hear about that very often. So the identities changing, they're making changes, signing a lot of writers for a lot of money, not performing maybe as they want at the zero.

But they end up, as we said in our final episode, actually with the decent little race. They went a stage. When a jersey, they had the leaders jersey for a little bit. Not many teams can say that cup five, and it's also top five in the GC. And then I'm in the cab on Monday going on from the airport, get a notification that Gersha Neeman is leaving Vizma. I mean, he is one of the lead. He might be the lead, the S at that team. He is, when you think of the team car, you think

of him, he's the guy that says, come on, Jonas, if you've ever seen the documentaries,

that he's leaving to go basically be the GM at a little track with Luca departing in Andy coming,

Andy Schlutt coming on his CEO, I was shocked by this. This seems all very drastic. And Gersha's not leaving Vizma technically until September 1, but he will not be at the tour. I'll probably be on some sort of gardening leave, not that important for the team. I would guess. But Johann,

“you have a lot of back behind the scenes information on this. What have you heard about it?”

Yeah. I was shocked. I was shocked to see that, you know, I've been thinking about this, I mean, I've been reading already the last few months, you know, a few things that I thought were strange and then reading this news. And I think Spencer, I think, I have, you know, some authority

to give my opinion because, you know, basically I'm at the roots of the existence of this team,

because 2011 we had Radio Shack Nissan and 2011, there was a team layer part and both of the teams were on track bicycles, right? So what happened in the off season of 2011, 2012, we merged both teams, this big mistake in hindsight for me. So you think that was a big mistake? Mergers don't work, mergers don't work. You know, the teams have survived without the merger, though. Well, we could have survived with Radio Shack, but we wanted a bigger team and then

layer part was dead. Layer part were, you know, the layer part was a team that started initially, because layer part means nothing. It's not, it's a, and it's a made-up name. Yeah. So the team got a layer part track. And there was this Luxembourg finance guy who was funding the team initially, and the purpose was that they would start the team and they would find a big sponsor to replace

we did, we did a merge. Well, basically a merge was not really emerged because the Luxembourg teams stayed in charge and I brought Radio Shack, I brought Nissan, sponsors, I brought

“eight riders, I think. You know, but you know, like top riders, it's a corner, gluten,”

lipimer, a bunch of guys from Radio Shack, right? And then a bunch of stuff,

but above all, we brought 15 million to the budget. And it's been a ton of money. It was a big

budget. If you brought both budgets together, it was a big budget. But I want to give this background because I want to go back to this in a little bit, you know, because I'm seeing, now, what I experienced then, which was I came into an organization, which, you know, I brought these riders, above all, I brought the money without that money that team would have been not existing. And the guys on layer part would probably not have the contracts paid.

Yeah, I felt like I was an intruder there. I felt it intruder that it was the riders

who were running the show. You know, and if you look at what, who were the riders, then the top riders, then were the guys that are coming now in the management. So plus, plus Kanchilada. So

“when I saw this new span, Spencer, I, first I couldn't believe it because first of all, I think”

that Luca Guercchiliana has brought this team to where there's one of the top teams. One of the top teams, although the results were a little off lately, but you know, they are one of the four super teams. I would say, you know, you have UAE, you have Red Bull, you have Visma, and you have little track. Now, maybe in the future, baby, they got low. But then, of course, we know that, and so initially it was a radio shock, a lao part, then it was became track factory team,

then became track little, and now it's little track and little is now the majority owner of the

team. I think it's 75 little and and 25 percent track. But the decisions are made by little now.

“And so Luca has built this team for the last 14 years, I think, you know, and, and I know that”

and personally, I know that he had big health problems, like very, very serious, life-training health problems, and he kept the team rolling. He's been, I think he's been absent almost for a whole season, but yet he kept the team, you know, he was in the hospital and at home and he kept everything going. I think it's, it's really respectful, what the, the way they have treated this situation, because I don't think, I don't think that the people who are coming in now in terms of

Indies management roles and directors roles and CEO roles are not qualified for this. I don't think they have the experience or the necessary baggage to run such a big organization. I mean, you know, Nirman has been a great DS, but as a GM, I don't know the guy personally, but I'm, you know, I have my doubts about this. Anjishlek has been a cyclist and he has been running a bike shop, you know, to be promoted to the CEO of the company, that's those of big shoes to fill. You know,

on the women's team, also the same has happened. I mean, it was not not so much in the picture, but, you know, the guy in charge of the women's team until this winter was Michael Rogers. He's been quietly put on the side and booted out and Frank Schlack came in to run the team. You know, so it's clear that this is the Luxembourg German Austrian connection, and then, and I also hear that, I mean, I've heard that all the staff people are super disappointed,

super pissed off that Luca is leaving some of the staff members, the 60s have been now, are being downgraded, and then other people mainly Germans are coming in

I don't, I mean, obviously, the one thing that will probably save them is that little has

a lot as a lot of money, and it seems like they are willing to spend a lot of money over spending. You know, I've heard rumors that right now, there's already a huge hole in the budget. You know, looking at handsets, maybe not as a prize if we know how much of this can more. So I get to circle a few holes, you know, so I don't think, I don't mean, I feel the same atmosphere a bit as my experience in 2012 there, the same people involved,

you know, there's one rider, one, one extra rider who's now the head of sponsoring at little,

seems to be making the shots, you know, it's big friends with the black brothers and

apparently very close to the CEO of Little and I'm, I'm, I'm a bit, I mean,

“I mean, it doesn't really matter what I think, right, but I'm going to say it anyway,”

because I can say whatever I want. I think it's not nice, it's not right the way they treat look at their chillin' up with, you know, and then you see these press reports, you know, like little track is the thanking Nuke for all the work and blah, blah, blah, I'm the same with Visma, you know, I know that for Visma, it came as a complete surprise to me, among Leafs and goes to the little track, you know, he's German, so obviously there's the German connection there, but, you know, you see these

press releases of everybody, you know, saying nice things, but man, let me tell you, behind the scenes, it's not, it's not, it's not nice, it's not fun, and yeah, I mean, I don't know what the role of track is in this here, exactly, but you know, I don't, I don't think, listen, everything can change, obviously money talks, bullshit walks, but and little has a lot, it's willing to spend a lot of money, so, you know, probably they will be able to get somewhere in the end, but I don't think

it's, I don't think they're making the right decisions, I don't see it as a successful change in leadership, because if the vast majority of all the, all the team members are really unhappy and surprised, with the way this has been changing, that's not a good sign, it's not a good sign, and yeah, correct me if I'm wrong, the origin of Leopard track was certain writers were on saxobank, and they did not like the, it was like almost a militaristic regime, and they left to call

the shots, right? They left, so, so they were read boundaries, and then so a group of writers, which is the sled brothers, Kanchilada, Fugelsung, the press officer, the press officer of, who became the

“general manager, that whole group left, like out of the blue, and they created this team, and I remember,”

I remember Spencer when, you know, when I came there with, you know, with the sponsors and the writers and the staff, and I had this meeting with, with the owner of the team, you know, he says, you know, we want you to, you know, install your rules and my rules man, my rules, I mean, it was ridiculous, you know, it's, you know, this guy, the owner of the team, he said, you are welcome, welcome, and I hope you can correct this situation here. Welcome to the club met,

club minute tyranny, which is, you know, it was a minute. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, really, you know, it's exactly like a little bit, where his words, oh boy, you know, and so, you know, we're now 16, you know, 14 years later, and the same people of the club met are back, and, you know, in this, and I, they're not going to like what I say, but, no, it's not, it's, it's, it's not going to work. They're going to, they're going to have to

do a lot of, a lot of, try and retry, and they're going to make a lot of mistakes where, you know,

“I think it would be okay to bring people in, but leave the guy, yeah, that's what is, that's what I”

don't understand, that try to, you know, make a team, you know, especially also because I know

that Luca, for example, has done a lot for these writers who are now basically,

Luca virtually nothing to deserve this. This is my final word on this.

“Yes, I think if people think you're being harsh, it's because I think a guy's getting,”

probably both think he's getting screwed here. This is not, from the outside, doesn't look good, because he was, you know, he kind of guided that team through tough times. Like, am I also wrong and remembering they break away from Saxobank, go start Leipartrak, I'm at university at the time, I'm a huge fan of this team. So excited for this team, and then I want they have a documentary about their training camp, which is pretty unique, you barely saw that at the time, was groundbreaking,

not watching the thing in like, this is like kind of relax, like a lot, what I thought it would be like, hey, I told you something to me. And so even as I didn't know, I didn't know shit at the time, right? Didn't know anything about anything, I'm thinking like, this is not what I thought it was going to be, and then they had a pretty bad year, I think,

“and you start to think, well, I think they were second and third in the tour, right?”

Second, so 2011, they were second to Cadale Evans, but in third, in third, but if I I would have to go back and rewatch it, and it's entirety, I think Andy's like was the stronger writer in that race. And you know, yeah, but Andy was talent, Andy was a huge talent, and then, you know, he was, he was a great cyclist, but they, I don't know, I didn't feel like that they worked on their time traveling enough, and Cadale kind of exploited that, and I thought they

should have beat Cadale Evans in the 2011 tour. That's just my thought, though. But you're right, second of the tour, very good, and then catch Laura finds his footing and starts ripping off

amazing results in that program. But it is, I, I don't know quite understand what do you think

happened that why did they decide to do this so drastically? Like why is it okay, look it out? Like, I don't know. I mean, it's something that's, listen, it's something that's been in the making, you know, but I don't really know, obviously, there, I don't know, they, they want it completely German. Okay, fine. I don't know. I mean, listen, Nirman is German. I, if you would, I mean, if you would ask the management, the top management of Fizmalese bike, what they think about,

they probably tell you, hey, feed did not see this coming. There's a huge disappointment. And good luck to him because, you know, he's not qualified for the job for that job. I'm speaking for some, I mean, I haven't spoken to you. Yeah, we're just, I guess, I guess that would be that way there. I would guess that as well. And that, that's a common thing that is said when something like this happens, someone gets, they leave a company and they go and they get a

big promotion. If, so Gersha Neiman, he's something someone asked me, I thought that was a good question. What's the difference between a GM and a CEO? How do these roles? Well, I mean, in a

cycling team. The CEO basically, the CEO is basically the guy, it was in charge of the company

and the finances and, and, and the contracts, which, it's big job, and especially a team like this, because these teams are, you know, they have development team, they're going to have a junior team,

“they have a women's team, they have the protein. Man, you need to have some skills, some entrepreneurial”

skills, and have some eight to nine figure company that you're running. It's, you know, it's, you have to have, you know, a minimum of, of, education for that or a bunch of experience already, in today's cycling, right? So, I can't see anybody there of those guys who are stepping in now, who has that. None. That's what surprised me the most. CEO. So, so, so, so, so I, I would think that probably mean, little, would probably keep an eye on everything, but who knows what has been promised

to the guys at little, you know, I mean, what, what, do, do they understand everything today, you know, do they, you know, I would think so, but it's very strange, it's very strange to me, and, and, and, and, again, Spencer, from what I hear, from within the team, there are only unhappy people right now. So, they're going to have a great, a big job to do straightened that out. Yeah, and you'd hate for little to come in and then have a bad experience.

That would be the worst case scenario for cycling. It's good for their family, you know, that's like, you know, well, it's, so I'm an amount of defense of Gershin, even, just for,

and we were just talking over the weekend, you know, how many teams of one grand tours?

“This is since 2020, grand tours raised 19. Do you know which team is one, the most grand tours?”

Probably his one. Visma 9, so 47% of them, you weigh five, red bull two, any of those two, quick step one. Yes, but, but I certainly, but, sorry to interrupt, but, you know, Grishanierman has been a DS, you know, he's part of a group that has structured and worked and planified, plan, plan, all this, the step out, okay, and everybody has to start somewhere, right? But I just see this, it's, it's too many unexperienced people together for these roles,

right now, it's my opinion. Well, we'll come back to that. It's good point.

So, since 2023, it's even crazier. Grand tours raised 10, Visma's one six, so 60% of them,

UA3, red bull one, also shows you how hard it is for teams like ladle. I mean, there's only one, two, three, four, five teams of one grand tours since 2020, three since 2023. I mean, that is just really concentrated. The thing about, that I was thinking about Visma and just if I was Gershiniman, what would I do? So, he's a sport director, and do you remember this guy, Marine Zaman? He was kind of the head of, head of racing,

he had a performance of Visma. He used, they replaced him with kind of like an aggregate of people. Now, Gershiniman leaves, Mark Rafe gets promoted into his spot, and it's kind of what you're saying, like like like one guy leaves, and he gets replaced. But then now you start to get more and more and experience people replacing them. But if you were Gershiniman and you were offered this role, and you're at Visma, and you think, I don't know if it's going to get any better than this. That's

frankly what I would be worried about. It's true. Yeah, I mean, I'm not, I'm not saying, I mean, listen, Nirmann makes it his interest, the best possible choice. German company, in it for in the long run, he has had a success at Visma. Visma is not renewing, or, you know, they're not, they're at in search of a new sponsor, as we all know. So, for Nirmann on a personal level,

“I think the choice, I mean, it's the chance of a lifetime for him. So, why not take it? You know,”

and obviously he's also going to have a better contract for sure. I'm just saying that the decision being made on the higher level to put these people there is not the smartest one. Not the smartest one. Yeah, yes. Because, think of Richard Pluga, he's the president, GM, CEO of Visma, you know, he wasn't quite. He was, he was not qualified. He just ended up with the team because nobody wanted it. And clearly, he's done an amazing job. The thing though, if you're Gersheneeman, you're probably

trust your boss. You'd say this guy is good at what he does. And you probably want to trust your

boss. And it's like nothing against it. I don't know Andy Schleck. I've never met him. He's a great

bikerider. What I feel, I just, that's a thing that I would think twice about if I was Gersheneeman. I'd say if I stick close to Richard Pluga, it's probably going to be okay.

“Now you go to Liddle, who knows? Yeah, as you said, who knows what's been promised to Liddle?”

Yeah. I would find it a tough decision if I was him because you've had a lot of success. Visma is maybe not renewing. Are we going to, what's going to happen at this team? I'm going to be out of a job in a year and a half. That wouldn't be that fun. So I guess he felt like he had to do it. I can see why he did it. I can see why people would be upset about it. But it is definitely a messy situation. Yeah. Yeah. I think the near-month situation is, you know,

it's, I think it's understandable. But I think it would have been made a lot more sense if it was in combination with Luca. Yes. No. Yeah. I'm coming in and having to do everything and then Andy Schleck without any experience having to be there with the CEO. We'll see, maybe I have to swallow my words. But I would gladly do so if that's the case. Yeah. And when you're CEO and your GM or brand new, that's a lot harder than if it's Luca, Gertelina, overseen Gersheneeman. That

would be, you think, a better situation. Visma, Visma has been losing a lot of guys. In addition, they lost Jonas Fendigard's coach to Red Bull. I believe. I keyed the left. The beginning of the year, we found out a few weeks ago. He went to Red Bull. Do you think that's just, they don't have the financial firepower to compete with these other teams? People like to go for new adventures, you know, the nutritionist is also leaving for a little track. The nutritionist of Visma,

So they're hiring a lot of people, mostly Germans. So basically the year successful German in the

world to where they're coming for. You're probably with a big contract I would assume.

“Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Well, now that I'm thinking about how did UNOX approach this?”

Because they have a very unique situation, too, where they're Norwegian, Swedish, I guess, maybe they don't have any Swedish writers. But Danish, Norwegian team, they hire a lot of staff from those countries. Did they go out and coach people or did they just kind of have fun? I didn't know. Yeah. But that's a team that's been really successful. I don't know. This model doesn't, it's just from the outside. Like, oh boy, this is a lot of new people

getting put out away from different teams. I don't know how this is going to go. And as I just said, it is of still, despite all of these, these are this movement, it's a very concentrated number of teams that are actually winning these biggest races. I'm curious to see if this catapults little, are they a super team now? I don't know. I'm curious to watch. That's for sure.

“We will see. Do you think Phil Scott is going to go there?”

I mean, he said, I didn't know he was out of contract. Listen, if he, if he has the chance, I would take it. You know, it's going to be a great contract for your deal, probably. Money will be, I mean, it will be over his market value, but we need to check also. We need to

see if if if if the level of philic's goal is if this second place in the zero is maybe his

maximum, you know, if I did some research, Spencer, because, you know, we're talking about little, we're also talking about track, you know, track has had teams and I assume they're still in a part important part of this team. I mean, they own 25% of it. So it's been since 2013 that track has won a grant to her. Now, track has won a total 14 grand tours. 13 of those was with this guy here with me. And then one was the year after I left with Chris Horner,

so that you, yeah, so that's the only one that you were not. That's the only one. And I would even there to say that I had a small part in the coaching role during that wealth of Chris Horner. It's time for track to do in another grant tour, guys. It's been 13 years. So yeah, that is a very good point because I, I'd not realize it had been that long. I mean, you can imagine they're feeling a little restless that been a long time since they won a grant tour.

So Alberto Contador, he switched to specialized. Is that right? Yeah. And then he wins in 2014 on 2014, well, to on a specialized bike. Yeah. Well, he was on Saxo, so Bob Gordinkhal for yes. Yeah, as he left to Stana went to Saxo, and then he started a crash, and then he couldn't beat Chris Horner, but he was doing well otherwise. Anything else you

“on before we take off? No, I think we've covered most of it. So do you think tomorrow, tomorrow,”

the zero, women, what, what that breaks is going to be interesting. Yeah, it's going to be interesting. Do you think, Grisha Neiman, not involved at all, with the team anymore? Like, is he just totally stone mold? In Envisma? Yeah, Envisma. Yeah, I think, once you make that decision, once you make an announcement, that's it. It's, it's game over. And it's like, you know, you're, you're, they're probably going to send them to some races. I don't know, but he's not going to

be involved with any decision making anymore. I think I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't, you know, and if they have enough stuff, you know, it's Visma. Yeah, I can't have planned for this, though. And then I guess, yeah, everybody next man up, like everybody moves up a spot and you move on, but not ideal, heading into the tour. But, you know, what we saw at the vault at the zero, if you're Jonas Finigarde, you probably doesn't matter, right? Doesn't matter who's

team car talking to you. Yeah, it's going to be pretty good in your work. Who's ace calm, who can,

you know, transmit the message, the strategy. Usually, usually the strategy of these stages is always

first in in discussion with the leader. You know, let's do this, this, what do you think? And then you have to have a DS who kind of is able to relate that message before the stage and then

Well, I mean, nowadays, they don't, I mean, nowadays the guys who do the talking or sitting in

“the driver's seat in the passenger seat, that makes more sense, actually. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah,”

glad to see that someone had that idea. Like, maybe we shouldn't have our coach in a felt coach as our driving a car down a mountain while they're doing it. It helps with your attention span, but thanks, Johan, and we'll be back next Friday to, uh, to talk about that behind you and mention this to Doughford and they start on Sunday. So we'll be a few stages into the Doughford

and it always starts a little bit slow and then we'll be getting to the meat of it right when we

“have that next episode. So I'm looking forward to it. I think the first stage is a mountain stage.”

Is it really? I think so. Doughnds Sunday, mountain stage. Hold on, hold on a second. That would be quite, I mean, I guess they changed the name so anything's on the, anything's on the table. It is a pretty hard stage. The last climb is 8k at 7.5%. Do you know where where is this? I don't know. I haven't checked. Oh, wow. In a venue, hold on. Well, I guess the problem was it was not in the Doughford anymore and then

they aren't making any money from that name. The third stage is it. So the first stage is a mountain

stage. We'll see what happens and curious to see what happens. The third stage is a time trial. Four stages, a tough stage. Maybe not a mountain stage technically. Fits stage. So Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. So we will record right after stage six, which is a summit finish. 6k at 7.5%. I'll probably know who the serious GC contender if not the overall winner is by that point. So we'll talk about it then.

“Marketing is hard. But I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point”

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