Lonely fans

These young women don't brag about their vacations or their possessions.

“They've gained big followings just for posting videos about being alone.”

Being a content creator is so fucking lonely. Are you lonely? I'm lonely sometimes. Not quite like that. No.

These videos are often much quieter and they're captioned with things like, GOV, you're a single and child free girl. It has no friends and lives alone and it's a Saturday night. POV, you live alone and NYC and have no friends, so this is how you spend your night after work.

They say they aren't unhappy. It's been two years since I last had a friend or any romantic feelings for anyone and I've never been happier. Hmm. Coming up on today's explained, we're going to ask her some questions.

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a pet owner in the US gets hit with a vet bill over a thousand dollars and it almost never comes at a convenient time. So check out fetch. You get paid up to 90% of vet bills. You can use fetch for any vet in the US and Canada.

Every vet is in network. Go to fetch pet.com/save right now for your free quote. That's fetch pet.com/save. . Lana Ese is 24 years old.

She has a good job in software sales and she lives in and works from a very nice apartment somewhere in Canada. In her videos online, she spends a lot of time by herself. Now, this is something that she's used to.

In elementary school, I was always like, I was never one of more popular kids.

I was never anti-social.

“I definitely tried to talk to the other kids, but I think I was had my own little interest”

and I was always a really big reader so I would sit in the library and read or whatever. But I find that the kid that would always run away and read in a corner was never really the most. I guess it was the most accepted hobby. Did you do the thing in high school where she tried to be less of a reader, LOL, and more

of a cool girl? But she felt like she was faking it. But I think I kind of ended up in an area where you would make surface level friends that don't really like you for who you are because you're pretending to be someone you're not. And I think that those type of experiences led me to just kind of be someone that really

enjoys their time alone. Yeah, just like generally a girl enjoying her life, now this girl enjoying her life is being called a loneliness influencer in her videos. She posted about being single and child-free and having no friends. Lena, what am I going to be seeing when I watch one of your videos?

Just generally a normal night in my life.

I think when I first started filming these videos, I had no intention of making it like an

aesthetic vlog or anything like that. I really wanted to kind of convey a normal life of somebody that doesn't have this big great fun social life. So I wanted to just kind of show something a little bit different. Like what does a life look like as someone that doesn't really have this great big social

life is not really interested in dating and generally prefers nights in. So if you're going to watch a Friday night in my life, you essentially just watch a girl enjoying her peace.

“I'm wearing pajamas and I'm about to go get ice cream for dinner, I'm already having an early night, so I think you're going to have a big cake because why not?”

And you're embracing it. You're not saying, I'm 24, I'm single, I don't have friends to hang out with tonight. And I feel wretched. You're saying, and I'm happy about it. That's exactly it.

And that's exactly what I was, that's the goal of it. When I initially started making these videos and I kind of was like formatting these titles and like how I wanted to look.

So people think that they're about to watch this like very sad routine of somebody that like is not enjoying their life.

“Life with no friends, no kids, no marriage.”

I left my apartment this week. Life with no friends, no kids, no marriage. Waking, feeling off, cooking and eating my cravings. Life with no friends, no kids, no marriage. How I ended up like this throughout the video.

I like always try to highlight the things that I'm really enjoying and like how peaceful it is.

I know what I've learned, I know what I've been through. I have a very strong understanding of how obviously all of that has correlated into who I am today. And I am currently at peace, I'm happy with my life, I'm happy with what I'm working on. It was always like a little play on like the expectation of how people might feel if they're single and live alone. And don't have a great big social life versus like my actual reality, which is like, I like this.

And from the response that I've gotten especially from women, there's a lot of like-minded people out there that also like this life, you know. Yeah, you have something like 200,000 followers, which is a lot of people watching what you do. What if you heard from people, why do you think you're growing?

I think they're definitely two types of viewers.

I kind of note it like when I started these videos, I had no idea who I would like what type of audience I would kind of cater to. I actually thought I would get like girls in their 20s who also don't have a lot of friends. Like that's really what I thought my audience would be. But it actually grew into something law cooler and just like a lot of different lifestyles. Like I have fewer that, you know, are married and have families.

But think this is so fun and like relaxing because it makes them think of what their life was like before. And they love their family and their current lives, but they also love their previous life, right?

“Which is the goal, like I think you should try to make the most of every stage of your life.”

And I really like those type of viewers.

And then there's also the woman who lives similar lifestyles and love their representation.

Or they love seeing a half like a millennial or like a little bit older audience based that is like really happy to see the younger generation kind of embracing this focusing on yourself, prioritizing yourself, your career, your goals over relationships, especially romantic relationships and just like finding yourself. And I see like so much knowledge, I go wealth of knowledge in those women.

And I love it when they leave comments about their life stories or like what they experience to lead them to this and how they're so happy to see that like the newer or like not the newer. But the current generations kind of learn these lessons without going through like them. I guess the big fallout, you know what I mean? Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. So it's it's been very cool to see the different type of people that

kind of watch this these type of videos. Do you respond to people who leave comments on your on your videos? I don't respond to as many people as I'd want to. I try to respond to like questions or you know, I like comments that are like very, very descriptive and like share like a compassion story about their life that I truly like feel and resonate with. But I draw like a pretty serious line with like how much time I'm spending scrolling through social media.

That is a very like I'm sure this will lead into your next question. But do I feel like my social life is getting fulfilled by social media? The answer to that question is no, I do not feel like it's getting fulfilled by social media because the moment I close my phone, my apartment's quiet, I'm still alone. And because I had gone to such a point where I was at like so much peace in my life when I started filming these videos, I almost felt like reading way too many opinions

“would disrupt my peace a little bit. I think that my creativity and like just like generally”

my life thrives a little bit more when I spend a little bit less time on social media. So I don't have the time to respond to everybody know. Okay, so online is not a satisfying social life. What is your social life then? I'm not saying it's not a satisfying social life. I'm saying that it doesn't replace what a social life would be. Ah, okay, okay. And I think that's kind of the accusation or people's takeaway from my videos is they're like, well, you know, get these type of,

you're putting your life out there, getting a bunch of responses on it. That's probably replacing a social life for you, but I spent two years alone before I ever filmed a video. Reading comments is not the same thing as having people around you. You know what I mean? I'm not 100% opposed to like making friends or anything like that ever again. It's more so like I just went through like some hard times and obviously I was trying to find myself. I didn't want to go through hard times and

then jump into other friendships where I feel like I'm doing the same thing of pretending to be someone I'm not an accepting treatment that I don't think. You know, it's aligned with what I'm looking for and I would be open to making friends again in the future. It was just about like finding

100% right for me and I'm right for them and we actually fulfill each other's lives instead of

“bringing any negativity or anything like that to each other. So it's basically just spending, you know,”

a lot of time by myself. I have a really close relationship with my family and but I don't rely on them for social interaction. I just like enjoy speaking to my family and I would in any way but just making the most of my life alone until I need the right people. A lot of what you're showing in your videos does not seem all that. I mean, I'm not one of the people that looks at your videos and things. Oh my goodness, how awful. There was one, there is one thing about your videos

that may be incredibly sad. You went to see the movie Obsession by yourself. Obsession is the scariest movie ever made. There I love you so, so, so, so, so much. I don't think I could live without you.

I tried to crawl into my first body. I got so scared watching that movie and you're sitting there

in a theater and you're like white knuckling it. I'm imagining alone. Are there? So that was a moment for me where I'm like, this girl needs a friend. Are there moments for you where you're like, I really, I really wish I had a friend there. I really do need to go out and meet someone. So, I don't have to watch Obsession alone. You know what? In the theater was actually fine. I found that like, wow, there's so much such a full theater and there was so much like, so many people were

being like funny. Like, nobody was being annoying, but there's a lot of like reactions and like it was very funny. So it felt interactive. I will say like when I left, it would have been fun, like debrief. What I just watched with people because I was like, oh my god, that was so creepy. Like, I have actually seen a lot of horror movies in my life. I was not expecting that to be that genuinely creepy. So yeah, I got what you're saying. I wouldn't say that was one of those instances where

I truly felt like I wish there was someone else here, but I get what you're saying. I would have been cool if there were people around me that I could chat with. There are moments, yeah. Like, sometimes like I live in a lake town and like sometimes I like drive downtown and like a nice beautiful Saturday night or something like I mentioned earlier, patios are full. I'm like, that would be cool.

“You know, but those are just like fleeting moments typically. And I think if I got to the point”

where I was genuinely having those thoughts very, very often and like feeling so ready to like share experiences in moments with other people, I would put the effort into finding friends. I'm not saying

it'll be easy. I just haven't gotten to that point yet. And I don't know if I will. I never try to say

this is the way it is and it'll be like this forever. But I'm okay right now, you know? She is Lana Issa. She's been called a loneliness influencer. Our next guest has written about these young women and they are mostly women and she says this is part of a broader problem. [Music] Support for the show today comes from A, G, 1. When we go on vacation, we need to put some of our

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Hi, I'm Faith Hill. I'm a staff writer for The Atlantic. In the first half of the show, we talk to a

young woman who has made a name for herself as a loneliness influencer. I know that you've written about this trend. We asked her what she thinks is going on. You kind of took a 3,000 foot perspective.

“What do you think is going on here? Yeah, I mean, I think sort of my first impulse when I heard”

about this genre of video that people are watching is that there's a lot of people spending a ton of time alone. We've heard a lot of people talk about loneliness epidemic. Dr. Vivek Murthy, the US surgeon general says loneliness is an epidemic. It can have profound effects on mental health as well as heart disease, stroke and dementia. Social isolation can be as deadly as smoking up to 15 cigarettes a day. So I thought maybe people were getting sort of social

connection through these videos from a safe distance rather than spending time in person with people. And I think maybe there's some of that going on, but I also realized as I was looking through these videos and reading all the comments that a lot of the people commenting seem to have a lot going on in their lives socially. So much so that they were sort of busy and exhausted and burned out overextended for some people. The appeal was actually in kind of the fantasy of it.

Like in the way that some people would look at influencers posting about these fabulous

exotic vacations they can afford to take. My husband is bored without me and always wants me around.

On the other hand, I absolutely love my time without him. As someone with a husband and two kids in a crazy busy life, thank you for sharing your calm and quiet life. It's a needed break from the

“chaos of my life. I think you know a lot of people have a very complicated relationship to solitude.”

It's definitely true. There's a lot of people you know spending a ton of time alone these days and you know people party and less and ordering in more. But also you know people are working long hours. A lot of people taking care of family members without much help. Many people are sort of torn between these needs for social connection and solitude. People are looking at the loneliness influencers and thinking, wow, I wish I had a Friday night to myself once in a while when nothing

to do. Is that does that mean that this is perhaps not as sad as it appears on its face? Yeah, you know, I don't think it's all sad. I think my heart goes out to people who are needing more solitude as well as more social connection. You know, I think most people probably don't have

plans much going on or not enough. So you know, I think it's not necessarily all happy but I do think it doesn't mean that there are just so many people out there who are

“only getting social connection through these videos. I think there's something a little more complicated”

going on. It's worth noting that most of these influencers are women, young women, and the reason that we want to talk to you is because you have written about a kind of dovetailing situation where we understand in the US now men to be in crisis. We've all heard about the male loneliness crisis, men's achievements in education, college graduation, men not being the breadwinners anymore,

you wrote a very interesting piece that basically said, actually women are in crisis as well.

Yeah, so I mean as you're saying, I've just been hearing so much about men and especially young men being in crisis and I think there's a lot of reasons, you know, we should take that seriously and I do but I felt like in those conversations young women were kind of being flattened into just like a comparison point where, you know, instead of people talking about how on some measures young men are struggling more than they used to, it kind of got twisted into young men are

struggling more than women. And in that kind of conversation, women become like the sort of symbol for flourishing as kind of this image of like the thriving girl boss, you know, the one who is

going to college, graduating college, entering the workforce on these conventional measures of

success, you know, doing so well. But if you actually look at some of these statistics, you know, young women are struggling a lot on a lot of these measures and in some cases, you know, more than young men. And so I don't think it needs to be a suffering competition, but I did think like part of the story was not kind of coming through. In what ways are women struggling coming about it? Women have, you know, for a long time reported depression and anxiety at

higher rates than men, that is, you know, getting worse it seems like mental health on a lot of different measures, which from kinds of stress and distress and suicidality, you know,

young women are reporting that at higher and higher rates, it seems to be getting worse over time.

And but it turns out that women actually attempt suicide at higher rates than men do on average. And the reason that Mormon die of suicide is that they're more likely to use lethal means,

“such as firearms. I think a lot of times this conversation, you know, it really revolves around”

like college attendance rates, and women are, you know, attending and graduating college at higher rates than men. But women with a bachelor's degree still makes less than a man with a bachelor's degree on average within the same field of study. So, you know, when I talk to people for this story, researchers and therapists, you know, I heard that a lot of young women are kind of in for a rude awakening when they graduate from school. They've kind of been in this

bubble where they did feel like they could grow and thrive and they were taken seriously. But, you know, that doesn't last for a very long time for most people. And then, you know, you go out into the real world where, you know, sexism is still very real and a lot of women are working in, you know, workplaces where they realize they're not taken as seriously or the people

“around them who are in positions of power or all men. I think that's a difficult realization.”

Based on everything you've just said, both men and women are struggling. If you look at the metrics, it isn't about the metrics. If you look at suicidality, both groups having trouble, education, both groups having trouble. Why if women and men are both in crisis, arguably we can use this term? Why did men pull focus? Women, I think, you know, as an overall population, tend to be like a fairly high functioning one in this narrative. I talked to someone who had trained

as a medical sociologist and she told me a saying that they used to use in this field, which was men die quicker, but women are sicker, you know, which in that context meant that women are more likely to endure a lot of chronic illnesses and to, you know, sort of soldier on with their pain unnoticed. And we might not be taking that as seriously because I think, you know, the idea that women are struggling isn't necessarily a new one or a super surprising one to a lot of people. I think

kind of a nerd to women's distress in this way. There is, I think there's a lot of hope to be found

in the interventions on behalf of men. I really do. There's also something a bit grim about you saying we sort of expect women to have a hard time and therefore it's less of a new story. And I believe you, I really do, but I wonder when you, as you found yourself covering this, where do you

“find the hope here? I do think people are thinking about really important issues when it comes to”

young adults in particular. And I am heartened that we're talking about, you know, this age group a lot,

I think there's been a lot of concern lately about like Gen Z and, you know, a lot of what we're talking about when we talk about young men's struggling actually also applies to young women. So I think we're on to some of the right things and if we could just sort of open up the conversation a little bit,

“I do think there's, you know, attention being paid to a lot of important stuff. And I think for a”

while, you know, there was a ton of talk about teen struggling and a lot of talk about like older adult

struggling. So, you know, I wrote another piece about young adulthood a while back that was kind of just really about the idea that young adulthood actually is a really hard developmental phase. And when I published that article, I think, you know, for a lot of readers, it seemed to be somewhat of a surprise.

“That was kind of the hook was like young adults are struggling too. And I think even just since I've”

written that people have talked more about young adults struggling, so I do think people are starting to take that seriously and understand that this is an age group that might need help. She's Faith Hill, but not that Faith Hill. She is the Atlantic writer. Kelly Westinger produced an ominous el-sati edited today's show, David Tattichore, Engineering, Gabriel Donatov, checked the facts. The rest of our team includes Heidi Moogti, Miles Bryan, Peter Ballonon,

Rosen, Patrick Boyd, Danielle Hewitt, Ariana Sputou, Dustin DeSoto, and Sean Romis for a management of a shy artsy, jolly Myers executive producer Miranda Kennedy. We used music by Breakmaster Scylinder. Today's latest distributed by WNYC, the show is a part of the box media podcast network for more podcast.voxmedia.com. Listen, add free by signing up at vox.com/members. I'm Noelle King, it's today explained.

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