Is “Right Person, Wrong Time” Actually Real? ft Logan Ury

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or Dr. Edka Vitales-Mysli, up to 16 gram for 0.2, 0.2, 0.20. Aldi, good for all. There's a pleasure to have you on. You've been on your show. You're like an OKP, original key player.

You were on you are one of our most listened to episode, Jared gets a dating coach. That was on the benefits, so it's a benefits episode. If you want, you can go to the benefits, sign up. The link is in the bio. You can get updates with Jordana, our regular co-hosts, who's definitely coming back.

You know, the post, we tape these ahead of time, but the post with Jordana's baby is Charlie and Lucy are here, we're so excited, it is. The U-UP family has been completed, we want to wish Jordana and Mike a congratulations. We've already done it a thousand times, by the time this comes out, the baby's going to be,

“you know, 18 years old and going college, so if you want to hear updates from Jordana,”

go sign up for benefits, but you can also search through the benefits episode and see the

episode that was like one of our biggest benefits episodes, Jared gets a dating coach.

Do you remember taping that? Yes, of course, and I don't like to read Reddit comments, but I did find that, I think in the U-UP Reddit, subreddit, there's like 70 comments about that episode, so people are really... I don't go to Reddit, I don't deal with those monsters, yeah, I think that's a lesser form

of society, but I'm happy they enjoy the show. You have enough Jared Frieds snark in your own head. Yeah, I don't write, thank you, I don't need that, I don't need the more things about me that I didn't even think of, you know? She's got your mom, if you want someone to tell you what's wrong with you.

My mom, she's out of her mind. Do you and my mom is like, I think she's like, she might be on the reddits. Well, that's what was so funny about our episode, I mean, among many things was that I had a pre-call with your mom and with Jordana and then I came in and I was like, this is what everyone in your life thinks is wrong with you.

Wait, I might have talked to someone that you dated. Oh, you did.

Yeah, like it, I really did like investigative reporting and then brought you my insights based

on that. So, what did, from that episode, your takeaway was that I needed to like give myself more to dating, right? What was the takeaway? There was a few things.

One was that because you've been doing this for eight years and you have all these stories in your head of how guys have really messed up girls, you almost pull away before things get serious because you're like, I don't want to disappoint them. I don't want to hurt them and it's like, you can almost imagine it getting dad so then you pull away before it gets serious.

Well, you know, that makes me sound more heroic than I am. Like, I don't ever want to paint myself as a hero in this. I'm just the, you know, I would say, I try to paint myself as a normal guy so it normalizes like this is who you're dealing with. Like, I am, and so because a lot of those emails that we get in, I've done what these

guys are doing. So like, when do you follow yourself a walking red flag?

“I guess if you want to write that, you can read that book coming out in June, pre-order”

the book, Logan, you have a book, you have a book out, you have a TV show on Netflix. Let's make sure we pimped all this stuff at Logan Yuri. She has a book out. My book is called How to Notie Alone. How to Notie Alone.

We keep things light here. Yeah. And you, you had a, you had a show, you have a show in Netflix. It was, you were guiding, you know, held the elders on their dating scene. So I'm not 55 plus.

I love it. Well, yeah, nobody hates being called the elders more than 55. No, no. I was supposed to say older adult. Older adult.

Like, we don't say senior citizen anymore. One time. Because you know I'm from Boca. I know, this is your from Boca, and I live in Del Rey now. So I'm learning the, the insecurities of a certain age group.

And I age, not a thing for me.

“I guess at some point it might be, is age a thing for you?”

Do you get insecure about age? No. No. That's not what it hits you. I think there's, I think I will, but I'm not quite there yet.

Okay. Yeah. You have a kid now. I do. Married child Mary.

Yeah. I have a two year old. She's really cute. Are you happy mom? Yeah.

I'm really happy. Yeah. I'm really happy. Yeah. Being a mom is that there's just so many more logistics.

Like you just have to, like for this trip, it's like I'm coming in. I'm doing this. And then I'm taking a 7 a.m flight tomorrow. And if not, I'd be like, I'm going to stay and like go to your show tomorrow night. So I think logistics.

I think best part is just being silly. Like it's a chance to be super silly with someone and just kind of go back to that.

No. Okay. Oh, this is nice. That's nice to hear.

Not to make up about me, but in my dating life, but you've reminded me of like, you know,

the thing that I think about with like dating a lot with, did you feel like you were ready for the mom stuff? Did you feel like this was a preparation? Because I, here's how I feel as a single guy who wants to be in a relationship or, her says that enough that I have to believe it.

“My next phase of life is so different than my current phase of life.”

And I think for a lot of women that I date, it feels like, yes, their next phase of life is different in a relationship, but it's not as different as mine. If I'm to compare, like it feels like a lot of the women are building the nest, like they're the, the mama bird and they're slowly building the nest and I am this eagle. Yeah, I'm calling myself an eagle or that is going to swoop in and land in this nest and

it's going to be set up and now I got to be in this nest that is very different than

the shithole cave that I was kind of wandering around and does that?

Yeah, I have a lot of thoughts on that. So one is, I think the best quote that I've heard about becoming a parent is if you're sick of going to the party, it's time to throw the party and what I interpret that to me and is like, if you've kind of been doing one thing for a while and it doesn't feel that fulfilling anymore, it might be time to do something else or like be the host of it.

And so what I mean about that for parenting is like, I had kind of like been married in my thirties for a while, like having a lot of friends, like doing fun things. But I don't know, I just like had gotten used to it and I was sort of ready for something else and I would say being a mom is a completely new something else and I really enjoy it.

It like injects a lot of novelty into your life, especially because kids change so fast, like every month, it's like you have a new kid. But then in terms of what you said about like the woman building the nest and the eagle

“coming from the cave, I think that's true, like what I experienced a lot of people experience”

is like, oh, woman starts like getting used to it once she's pregnant, like I'm going to be a mom, blah, blah, blah and the guy, I feel like doesn't become a dad until like the baby comes out. So I think the woman just does for many reasons like adapt to that new identity sooner. Well, even with like, if I even bring it back to like single woman right now, her apartment

right now, a man could live there. Yeah. My apartment, I don't think a woman could just plop right it. Like I look at these, you know, like when I sleep at a woman's house, like the pictures are up of her and the friends, you know, there's like, you know, there's a bed made that

is kind of emulating some sort of restoration hardware thing that they've seen and that is just not what I'm living in and this is kind of like metaphor for life, like, and I like the pregnancy thing because you're living with the baby has your feeding it, you're literally feeding it inside of you. So like, you know, you're preparing mentally physically with this human and the guy is just

like sitting there. He doesn't feel any different. No difference. So like, and I kind of have that with like dating and men and like, you know, you have a lot of it, and again, the emails we get, woman ready, man, timing's off, not ready yet.

A lot of them.

“I think that's just always been the case forever, I think it's like I was ready to get”

engaged probably two years before my husband proposed and I feel like I had been ready to have a kid for a while, like I think it's just natural that women aren't ready a little bit earlier and some of it I think is just biological clock and fertility and things like that. I think some of it is maturity.

I guess my point is like when the baby comes out, like you adapt to it and you make it work. So even if you don't feel ready, that doesn't mean that when the time comes, you won't rise to the occasion. Right.

You know, I think about this a lot because I'm like, you know, I'm not like looking for a baby, but I'm like, I know I'll be good in that next formal life. But I have to kind of trust it. Like I kind of have to trust that like, you know, my comedy will reflect the B is good as it was doing, talking about my life and another form or be as relatable and I think

it'll be even better because like you've been doing the like single and 35, single and 36, they've been 36, they've been stuck for a long time, like Jared, like I feel like obviously John Malene is like the top of the industry right now and I feel like his content since he's become a parent has been so good, especially for me. I was a parent because I'm just like, yes, like you're taking the things that I experience

every day and then you're extracting like the funniest, most outrageous parts of it.

And I think his comedy right now is incredible and it's like he aged with his comedy,

right? Right. Yeah, you can, and that happens to a lot of comics. I mean, you see that, especially if they're not writing, that's one, but you see a lot of comics that like they're so, and I don't want to be this, but it's hard.

like, I'm like, yeah, I'm kind of done talking about dating.

I hear a lot of bits being done that are things that I've done 10 years ago, like I'm hearing other people do them and I'm like, yeah, I kind of like I've moved on from that. And when I do talk about dating, I do tend to get like somewhat more serious, like I've been thinking a lot about, like, because I get asked, do you want to be in a relationship? But I'm like, that is an interesting thing to ask someone.

Yeah. And I don't think women get asked that as much as a guy gets that, like, I get asked like it's my big choice for me. Yeah.

“And I think by women who are going out with you, by everyone, do you even want to?”

And it's like, do I look like someone wants to just be alone forever? I know. Like, that's like a weird. I mean, I'm just sitting across from you and I like want to shake you and be like, obviously you're fucking ready for a relationship.

Yeah, I know. I know.

Just like get on the marriage train.

Like, what are you waiting for? Like a fear that like your comedy will change. It's like, yes, it will change for the better. Well, it's a funny year. Well, it's a funny year.

I have changed. Of course. But like, you'll just adapt to it. And he's your life right now. So great that you have to.

Life is just great. Like, good. I mean, I'm unbothered. Okay. You know, like, there's no stress.

There's no like, but no stress. There is stress. There is always stress.

But I'm saying, like, it is interesting that like, stay home, nothing will happen, but

then nothing happens. You know, like, it's like a two way street. And I'm speaking vaguely. I don't mean to speak so vaguely. But like, I think a lot about the episode that we did in the coaching and like this fear

of like messing up is, I think a lot. Like, and I hear back from those people. I hear back from people like when I do like a dating papaya and I'm joking. I'll see people like, yeah, I haven't had to deal with that shit in 10 years and thank God.

I don't anymore. You mean from married people? No from single people. They're like, what I'm like, you know, I used to do these pep talks where I'd be like, you know, you're a single and that's great because you could be with someone who does this

this and that. And it's like, yeah, you could, but then you'd have nothing to talk about if you're not. Like, you have, what's interesting, you know, like, I don't know, it's it's, I do feel ready. I feel like the big change I have made since we've talked, I don't drink on

dates. Oh, so that's been one which has been interesting to see how relieved the women seem to be. Wait, was that a conscious choice? It was a pretty conscious choice to stop drinking on dates because you were like,

I want to meet you, not like the two cocktails I'm drinking. Yeah, and I tend to like, you didn't, I was like, I think the cocktails were softening. You know, the, the blow of a conversation, like I can make any cocktail conversation work. Yeah. I was like, let me see what it is without.

And that has been good because I just couldn't believe how relieved the women were. Like I couldn't believe that they were like, oh, thank God. Like, yeah, no, I don't want it. I don't want it.

“Because wouldn't they be like, yeah, of course we're getting drink, so you should”

both get a drink. Well, we should both get a drink. And but I said it them before, like, I'm not going to be drink. I just want like, you know, or like, and, and like, I'll see like a, oh, good. I was like, kind of like, I didn't really want to, like, I was like an wake up early tomorrow

and like, which is interesting, I thought that was interesting. I've also moving to Florida dating there is way more intentional. You have to get in a car, you have to go somewhere, you have to, this, it felt like dating New York was more, I could do it in an hour on the way to something else. And that's more, that's as much me a problem as it is the city, like I didn't have to

do it that way, but I was on the way to shows or something. There was no other option, but to go on the day. And yeah, I guess, and that's kind of the way, I think that's a big difference for me. Are you still drinking in general? Just not on dates.

I have a drink here and there, but it's not a part of my life in the way it was. Oh, wow. That does feel a bit because I feel like one time we were hanging out and you were like, you know, you get so, you have so much adrenaline after your shows, that's sometimes you kind of have to come down with the drink.

“You have to like sit somewhere and like let the mind clear a little bit and you know,”

I've been having like, you know, if I don't want to drink, I'll have an on-out after and it kind of does the same thing for me. But I'm happy for you. It sounds like you're happy for you and it's been a good change. It's been a good change and also my parents being around, like, I'm kind of reminded of like,

what's important, you know, like, of like where I'm looking to go, they also have friends around them where I'm like, seeing like people who aren't in relationships and an older age and who are and ones that work and ones that don't and like, I'm getting this like view that has been informative where you're like, oh, that's the path I don't want to take.

Right. I don't want to be alone forever, yeah, even though, and I can see that there are people

and then I realize it in myself that staying single is just opting out. Yeah, I've definitely used that as a coaching technique where you have someone who keeps leaving relationships earlier, you know, all these reasons why they're not staying in relationships or dating at all. And then I have them close their eyes and think about, okay, like, it's 20 years from now,

so you met someone, you have a family like walk me through that and the other one is like, you just opted out of dating and it's really to get them to imagine what their life is like and not that you can't have an amazing life without being married or having kids,

“but that you have to sort of proactively do something else to find meaning and a lot of”

times it helps these people understand like, oh, I do want that. I'm just afraid of the steps it takes to get there. Right. That speaks to me. I mean, like, it is, you know, the phone, we've joked that my phone is like my girlfriend and I try to think a lot about like, what I be doing this if a phone

didn't exist and I don't think I would be, like a lot of times I'm doing these like food, like when I go on the road, I'll do food reviews, like I go to a restaurant and I'll

like talk to the phone about the review of the restaurant, but I've never been negative about

a restaurant or generally not. It's usually just me on a date with my phone, but I'm talking to the phone the way I would talk to my girlfriend. Well, there's you talking to the phone, but then there's also all the validation and affirmation that you're getting from strangers. Right.

“So I think there's like Jared without his phone, is he now married?”

I also think there's Jared without being like an online personality. And I think it has, of course, changed a lot because it's like, we have all these stories in your head of Nightmare Things Guys have done that impacts how you show up, but then there's also a lot of validation from the world and then one other thing we talked about on our coaching session was that you had gone on a bunch of dates with like people that

DMU and then one of my challenges for you is like, can you actually proactively reach out to someone else because maybe you'll feel more into them if you're initiating versus

just being like, here's what came to me.

That's been very hard for me to do because I do get a head on that where I do feel like me reaching out is me making a promise and making like that that would get used against me. See that? I feel like there's like a lot of meaty stuff there which is you're so afraid of making

a promise that you might break instead of just normalizing it being like, yeah, people reach out to people they're interested in all the time and that just means I'm interested in a first date.

“I think of all the time and it's maybe because I don't have people think because I go”

on stage or I do the show that I must have a lot of confidence. I have my own confidence issues like anyone else. I think there's like a certain type of confidence that there's a thing in my head that happens and we're going to get to the emails you can send your emails. You [email protected].

We don't want to turn this into a benefits episode, but I have Logan wants to turn this into. So we're going to get, we have advice emails that we're going to get to Ikki or picky. You can watch on YouTube, you can see me in Logan, hash it out there, comment, subscribe, all those good things.

But before we get to the email, I will say that the one thing I think of when I think of like reaching out to someone is the woman who's written in here like, I didn't even like him and look where I am now miserable because a guy I didn't even know about or like is now telling me that they don't have time for a relationship with me after they reached out to me and I think of that and I get like a shivered on my spine because I'm like,

you know, I do think I'm like of that conversation afterwards where I'm not even there. Again, I'm inventing this and I admit it. I'm inventing it. Someone's going to write in the comments that something horrific about this. But I'm like, I'm being vulnerable right now to say, when I think of that, I just go,

ugh, I don't know, I'll just go masturbate. I'm like, I'll just go masturbate to the idea of me, you know, with that person and then I'll go away from it because that's a lot easier than the idea of like going on the date and being three months in and going, I'm not really there yet and then going, hey, I'm sorry.

I wrote you into this with a big nice text that wanted to take you out and made you feel good at the time. I'm sorry, I gotta end it because timings not right, lie, lie, lie, excuse, excuse, excuse, for what the real answer is, I don't think I'll get married to you ever and I've already, I've worn you as the girlfriend and I'm going to take you off and toss you away, which

is very mean and hurtful to say in those terms, I would never say it that way, but that

is how it could be taken and I feel really badly even before that even happened. And if someone, I would say that I am not that far away from a lot of men who probably

I think you have a very vivid imagination and so I think that, again, it takes a lot of confidence and lack of confidence to think this way, I think, but I'll stop in a row. To me, it's an imagination thing where you're like, if I send the text, then she thinks I'm promising that we're getting up married and if it doesn't work out, she'll be so mad and she'll make a TikTok about it and I'm like, I'm not even in the TikTok world.

I won't even go that far. I'll just say that now I'm this memory, it's like, I don't like taking pictures with women when they've brought me to wedding because I don't want to be in that picture forever where they're like, look at it and I, I don't want to be shown, you know, the wedding pictures come out 10 years ago.

“Let's take out the book and then it's like, and remember this fucking loser?”

I, okay, I've talked to a lot of single guys about dating. I do think you're on the pretty extreme end of this because you've done this podcast for eight years. You just have such vivid stories in your mind of how women feel like guys let them down. You have an insane amount of empathy for them, but it also gives you a lot of fear, what

if I am that guy and I feel like it's, it's too far, but it's like, if you go to a wedding and they want to take a picture with you great, maybe they'll have a happy memory of it even if you didn't work out and I think with the DM and it's like, the DM doesn't mean like, I know I want to be with you forever. If you only see me, the DM means like, I think you're hot and I want to get to know

you more. If in the process of getting to know them, it doesn't work out. I think it's fine to end. It's fair. Yeah.

I know that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that's what I'm getting ahead. We've got into a, we've got conversations a lot here with guests about, you know, why don't men just go up to women and bars?

And I'm like, there's has to be a tinge of what I'm feeling for those men. Yeah, I prefer that idea that if I go up to what, why run up to that woman if I'm just going to like have to go on date after date after date, make these promises that I don't know if I can keep because maybe it won't be that exciting. That's not what I ever hear.

What I hear is like, I don't want to be perceived as creepy. I know for my female friends and online discourse that sometimes women don't like to be approached. And I don't know if she's single, like I could just look on an app to see who's single. And then I think it's also just fear of rejection.

I really have never heard anyone other than you think about I'm over promising and I might

under deliver. That does feel specific to general. Okay. But I would just say in general, like, I know we want to get to the emails, like, you can either run towards love or away from fear.

And I feel like you're really in the fear mindset or it's like this could go wrong. And this could go wrong. And this could go wrong. And I could lose the stuff that I talk about in comedy and people see me as the single guy.

And like, my life get more complicated and instead I would have you focus on what you could gain, which is like, it feel really good to go to bed at night and like talk to the same person about my day and like care about their day. Like it'd be, it feel really good to kind of move to the next stage of life.

“Like, if you want to have kids, like it feel good to grow a family.”

And so I think, of course, it's more salient to you to think about what you would lose. But I would encourage you to think about what you could gain. Let's do the emails. We're here with Logan Yuri at Logan Yuri. Go follow, go get involved.

And you're working with him. Yes. We want people check out hinge. You have all the stats. Yes.

You have the numbers to back these things. For sure. Yeah. I am the lead relationship scientist at hinge and I'm coming at you with all the hinge data.

Now, what is it that men want on hinge? What is it that women want on hinge? Do we want to get into that?

Do we want to do the, let's do the email first.

Okay. Great. I'm going to bring hinge stats in wherever I am. So we're going to like reference hinge stats. They're not sponsoring.

This isn't like a paid advertisement. Logan just has to work with them. And I think now I'll just power and knowing like what's real, what's fake is here's the one thing that people that really drives me crazy. Yeah. When I hear people say that I'm, they're holding back the good ones from me.

You hear a lot of like that I'm not seeing the good ones on the side on and up on an app. Unless I'm paying or less, you know, they've turned into this like, yeah, yeah, conspiracy there. Right. Why are people is hinge holding back the good matches?

No, I mean, before I worked at hinge, I interviewed like it just, I'm started with it. It just sounds like someone, like it's like a lie, people tell themselves and it's like, or they're not it, the good ones aren't into you. You know, like, or you just get a lot of likes.

“And that's what happens on a dating app.”

And you have to sift through all this group of people that you would never date.

Because you're just in a more public form than you are a bar. There's more people that could approach you on the hinge than a bar, you know? Yeah, I mean, I think one that I hear a lot is like, of course, hinge doesn't want you to find someone. Then they would lose you as a customer, or lose you as a user.

Right. And that's what I thought before I joined hinge and when I interviewed, then they sort of paying me. And my face changed. Well, it sort of related to that, but it's like, when I was writing my book before I worked

at hinge, I interviewed the now former CEO, Justin McCloud. And I was like, this doesn't make any sense.

a new user and all this stuff. And he was like, no, everyone, time someone deletes the app because they're in a relationship or they get married. Like, that's the best marketing we could ever do. I totally agree with it.

Yeah. That is someone who tells you to download a dating app. When the person who finds their partner on hinge is the person who then forever. Yeah.

“Because when I asked someone, had you met on hinge?”

That's how I feel.

I've been to so many weddings where they're like, let's read back the first hinge message

from 2019. And no one thinks of that as marketing because it's so ingrained in our culture, that's great marketing. Of course, but it's every single person in the audience is like, okay, I got to get on hinge or like, I'm going to give hinge another try.

So I genuinely believe it. And having been there now for a long time and like every single person at hinge is sitting there being like, how do we make better matches? How can we help you feel more comfortable? What else can we learn about you to like make better, compatible matches?

Right. No one's ever like, how much time are you spending on here and how do we increase it? So anyway, of course, I'm but it's funny. It's like, well, you're, you're in that world, you live in, you know, that area, the country that is talking about 10 X and I live in the Bay Area in the Bay Area.

So you know, the whole Silicon Valley, the whole private equities and other things is like, everyone's kind of like, bought into the lower of private equity with it. Like, well, they wouldn't invest here if it wasn't going to be off 30 X confidence. Like, well, the people who work there, you know, the best marketing is two people fall in love meet on hinge.

They talk about it until the day they die. For sure. Yeah.

“And that's why when I met Justin, I was talking about like, churn because like, I come from”

a tech background and I come from the idea of like, you know, acquiring users and cost per acquisition and it's like, look, at the end of the day, if your friend met her husband on hinge, that makes you want to use hinge more. Right. Right.

So let's do the email, youupetches.com, jj and L. Big fan. I think I need your help. I can't tell if this is something I'm overthinking or if there's a real issue in my relationship. Me, 28, boyfriend, 28, sweet communicative, moved to my city for me, which I really appreciate.

We live together to Ireland, things are going well, but he never plans dates or special

things for us. I always have to take the lead, even for simple ideas like dinner or walk. When I ask him to plan something, he says it stresses him out and he only plans things easily for his friends because they have lower standards. We have a trip coming up before he leaves for a few weeks and even with a full day free,

he couldn't come up with anything special. I ended up suggesting a walk to a bookstore, which was fun, but I wish he would have put in an effort without me leading. He insists on paying for dates and I truly appreciate that, but thoughtful and expensive ideas like a picnic or museum visit, seemed beyond him.

I love him, but this makes me question if he's right for me, his lack of planning is a turnoff or am I being too picky, just take me on a walk, babe. What do you think Logan here? Oh my gosh, I have so many thoughts on this. Go for it.

Where do I start? Planning, planning, planning, that's the easiest way to turn on a woman. Is that kind of the hinge data? It is.

You and I have talked about this off mic where the hinge data shows that 72 percent of women

are like, I'd rather have a guy that puts in more effort than one who makes more money. That effort is just so important right now. It's like logistics, is the new love language, effort is the new currency in dating, and that, like, as women make more money, as they are perceived as like more equal in the financial world, the bar is raised for men.

It's like not enough to just be a provider anymore.

“You have to have emotional intelligence and you have to put an effort and plan, and”

I think... What did someone say that's lowered the bar? Yes, and some is, I don't know, I know what you say. All I have to do because like, you know, I guess I'm a creative, as many know, I'm an author, a comedian, and a provider actor, podcaster.

To me, planning a date, like that's stupid, like I could plan the dumbest date, and I think that would turn on a woman in a way that they would be like, this was awesome. And it would cost me very little money. Yeah. It would really take 10 minutes of brainstorming, and like, I could right now walk in central

park, we're going to get a hot dog here, we're going to go to this landmark here. We're going to...there's a Dave Chappelle sketch from Chappelle Show, where he talks about how much money he would put into a date. I think we can look this up. It's a Chappelle Show sketch where it's like he has like $3, and the date is him, like, trying

to figure out how to get this $3 to last the date to get him laid. I think if I'm remembering it correctly, am I misremembering, am I thinking of a different sketch? I have this memory of this date and I'm like, I could see a woman walking away from that being like, we went on a great walk, we got to talk, we got hot dog, which is like

so to your city and cute, like, and then if you really explain that back, again, like at the brunch table, so when we go, well, that's all it took to make you turned on. Is that it? Is that the sketch?

Oh, it's half baked, you're right, it's from the movie half baked.

“Oh, and then don't they have the numbers pop up about how much?”

It has $8, and he's so funny, oh my gosh. With the woman he gets the hot dog and then she keeps ordering and he's down to $6, and he's like sweating the $8. This is a side picture, remember when you had the golden bachelor on, and you were, like, what's your favorite restaurant?

It was like sparpies. It's a gallery, gallery, really, the golden bachelor. He was also wearing a suit with a tag was on in the suit. And I really wish I had pointed that out during the episode. I don't know if you can see it in the YouTube.

You were like, you're a restaurant tour, what's your favorite restaurant near? He's in Sparrow. He's in Sparrow, or I said, yeah, it was crazy. I always say it. Well, I was like, where are you going tonight?

He was like, I don't know. Oh, my room. Oh, look at the highway. And I love Gary. He's gotten kind of tied up in this like, in the aftermath of, like, golden bachelor stuff.

“But he was always very nice, but yeah, yeah, I was like, what?”

Yeah. Okay, going back to the email, I think there's a few things. So one, like, what's the need behind the need? So her need that she's telling him is I want you to plan it, but maybe the need behind the need is like, I want what's important to me to be important to you.

Or like, I've asked you for this, but you say you're not willing to do it. Well, what about the feedback? They have lower standards. Yeah, so I really don't, I mean, that to me is a problem. I feel, I get, I think what she's getting at there is like, I want him to plan a trip

where he books the Airbnb is, but he's afraid that if he books them, they won't be good enough for me. Whereas if he books them for his friends, they don't care, which, like, I have experienced in my life.

Like, I feel like when I was first starting to date my husband, I was like, okay, we're

going to Portland and Seattle, all plan half, you'll plan the other half. And then we got to Seattle and I was like, I'm, I think this is a literal dorm room. Like, why are we here, like, like, it was upsetting to me. Because I guess, would you say that when you saw what he planned for his half, it's like, did you even think of me?

It wasn't that. I was just like, oh, you're very bad at travel planning. And it had stressed him out a lot.

“And that's why, like, there's so much I can say about this.”

But I would say, like, I'm an extreme planner and it's sort of part of being a control freak. It's like, I want to control as much as I can, planning makes me feel like I'm in control. Like, there's a lot behind that. And then for my husband, it's like, he, like, gets so nervous, planning flights. Like, it just doesn't work out for him.

And so I would say, like, many years into our relationship, I'm just like, yeah, I'll do the travel planning. Like, because you hate it and I like it and you're bad at it and I'm good at it. But it's not like I feel like he doesn't do 50% in our relationship. It's just that he doesn't do 50% of travel planning. Right.

And so what I would say to her is I would say, if everything else in your relationship is great, he's just not a good planner, then maybe you just accept that and give him some tips and move on. But if this is a deeper feeling where you're like, this is a skill that he could develop

and he refuses to do it or he never prioritizes what I want to prioritize.

Then I would say it's a deal breaker. The other thing going back to what you said about like, there's a million good dates. You can think of it. It's like literally use chat you PT, like type into chat you PT, my girlfriend loves reading. She loves these comedians.

She loves these musicians and her favorite cuisine is this. Like, plan me like a three part day in New York City for next Saturday. It will literally do that for you and I don't think that's cheating. I think that's like being strategic and so part of me is like planning as a skill and he could definitely learn it. Yeah, and is he trying to learn it?

I think when you say to him, he stresses it. It stresses him out. He only plans things easily for his friends because they quote, have lower standards. Yeah. That's like a really annoying feedback.

Because we do then some stresses out all the time. Like, life isn't about just doing the things that are easy. It's like, do you want to make a presentation for work? It stresses me out. Well, guess what you're still going to do it.

It's like he could work through that stress, especially with tools like Google. Right. Well, they have lower standards. It's really like a way of pushing you away because it's making it your problem. That's really smart.

That's great. And I think when you say like make a presentation from work, he has to do that. Yeah. I think when you say like, I'd like for you to plan. It doesn't sound like, from my end, I wouldn't be like, well, yeah, I guess he'd like to.

But like, weren't a relationship who cares. I think if she said it to him, like, I feel unloved when you have no plan at all ever. Like, now it becomes like, you got to make me feel loved. Like, we have a real issue. So like, if I heard that, I would probably make a plan at that point.

Like, I think that's exactly right. It's like, if she says to him, it's not about the plan. It's about how it makes me feel. This is really important to me. If he changes, great.

If he doesn't change, I think that's a problem. Right. And then you could say, here's a way to make.

Here's the key to the castle.

Go to chat to you and plan one thing a week. That's all I'm asking for sure. One thing a week. And now you've made it.

“And I think like a lot of men or fixtures and, you know,”

what the map and want to, you know, take, you know, lead you through the airport. We'll get to the gate and be there on time. So let's play to that. If he can't do that, that's kind of a final test to, like, his effort level to make you feel loved.

Now it's not an effort level to plan. Because planning sounds, to me, it wouldn't be important. This one, like, really, I have a lot of feelings about this one because I feel like I've gone through it my own relationship. So like, I talked about, like, you know, planning the trip with my husband at the beginning.

But it reminds me of when I was planning my wedding. And I also had, like, a COVID wedding, which means it got rescheduled. And, like, the, like, our final wedding was 4.0, like the 4th of the plan. Yeah.

Anyway, I remember I was like, in therapy at the time, and I said to my therapist,

like, I'm doing 95% of the planning and he's only doing 5% and all. Oh, the 5% he's doing, he's not even doing well. Like, I got so riled up about it. And I was like, does this mean that when we have kids all have to do 95%. Right.

And like, what she has said, which was genuinely very helpful, was she was like, he doesn't care that much about the wedding. Like, the wedding is for you. It's not exciting to him. But if you have a kid and you decide to have a kid together,

like, he will be like opting into that in a different way. And I would say that's been completely true.

“Like, I think for the wedding planning, I really did the majority of it.”

And I cared more, but like, when we decided together to have a kid, I think we definitely are 50/50. And so, I don't know if that's like me making excuses for my husband or for men. But I think the point is that, like, the relationship has to be 50/50, but it doesn't mean that every task has to be 50/50.

So like, I like doing the laundry. It doesn't bother me. I do all of our laundry. But like, I don't do any of the cooking, any of the grocery ordering. Like, I have no idea what my child eats.

My husband does all of that. And so I think as you're in a relationship longer, you realize you can actually like divide and conquer different activities. You don't have to try to make that person like good at laundry or good at planning dates. If that's something that you're really good at.

You'll be at batches.com or here with Logan Yuri, at Logan Yuri, go follow, get involved. How to not die alone is the book. She is with him. So go, you know, now this is the, this is where we're coming out here in March. It's spring, it's time, download the app.

But what I wanted to do was not to go to the studio. The semester-by-tag lab, Tobiya soft-behind, the internet, is a master's realtor. I said, you can say, you can say that to Ruqouen. You mean, you're from the studio, don't you, huh? But you don't do anything.

Egal. Zauber word, "fallus" for a track. Make the whole thing just like this. And when they then work, he says, "catchin". That's right.

Safe. Like this. Hold it, then go to Ruqou. Now it's just like that. Let's play a clear pick.

Okay. You're dating someone and you get the egg. Are you valid? Is that valid? You got the egg, or you're being picky?

Wait, is being picky here good or bad? I guess we're giving feedback that this isn't like a valid egg. Okay, got it. J.J. and L. Long time-listen for some writer this happened to me last year.

It still makes me laugh and cringe. I matched with a guy on hinge and we had a really good banter. Send Flirty Techs and even had an inside joke about his dog before we even talked about going on a date. Playing the day was easy and all in all, normal and sweet.

Then right before finalizing plans, he asked if I could send him a voice note, anything, just a voice note. That's weird. Yeah, I want to hear where this is going. I'm a little shy and felt weird about it.

I was like, oh, I don't know. I don't really want to. I'd rather just meet in person. In retrospect, maybe he thought it was weird that I wouldn't send a voice note. He sent me a voice note insisting it was no big deal but kept pushing.

I brushed it off. We finished planning the date and I headed to dinner. While I was in the Uber on the way, I get a voice note from him. This time in a super sing-songy, deeply-ic-inducing tone saying, "Kathrin, just one more thing." You got to send me that voice note.

I decided to not go on the date and unmatched them.

So Ikir Pikki is asking for a voice note before a first date, a harmless preference or

is repeatedly insisting on one a red flag, thanks for all the laughs. What do you think? Okay, first of all, that story is so bizarre and creepy.

“I think I have a pretty clear short answer, which is, I understand why some people want”

to hear your voice because a lot of people are impacted by voice or they want to make sure you're real, but there's so many other ways to do it. It's like asked for a pre-date phone call, asked for a pre-date FaceTime. I think that would be normal, but why this is really gross and a red flag is that she said no.

She was like, "My boundary is no," and he kept pushing. I think the fact that he didn't listen to her boundary and kept trying to get something from her that she didn't want to give, feels really gross. And I think she did the right thing by just being like, "No, I don't like how this makes

Totally. It's a lack of awareness. I think it's a total validic, lack of awareness of the order of operations of it all. Because what you're saying is so right, like, there is a way to hear a voice.

“If that is on your list of things you need to go on a date with someone you meet online,”

you can go. I got to hear a voice, let's have a call, hey, I know this might be a little weird. I think once you have a date planned, once that date is planned, I want no surprises. Okay. I want no vague, I want no, you'll see what I get there, I want none of that.

I don't want any, you know, I might bring a friend, I might do this, will you all show you when I get there? No, no, no, no.

We are meeting, we are still strangers who have never met.

Come at me with, like, let me get a voice note out of you, no, we plan this date already. I've gotten past the point of, we don't know each other and now we're going to go meet. Like, I totally agree. I think the order of operation, things is really smart. Hey, like, I feel like we have a lot in common, like, do you want to hop on the phone?

I usually walk home for Mark around six, like, that's fine or she could say, like, no, but I could do this other time. Like, I think there's just a normal way to ask for it, but once you've planned the date, then being like, actually, there's this other who you need to jump through is really off, right? And it's not even even, like, as if I got to perform for you.

And like, the thing is, the data we've seen at hinges that people are really into voice. Like, when we added voice prompts, people loved it. They thought, like, there was a richness to it. You can see someone's sense of humor.

“I remember my favorite one was my friend, had it as a benchmark for someone's sense of humor.”

So the hinge prompt was, had it pronounced my name and his said, Joe. Yeah, like, and then someone would be like, do you really think that I don't know how to pronounce your name, Joe? And he's like, no, don't think of my sense of humor. You're out. And like, I love that story.

And we see at hinge that a third of Gen Z daters want to receive more voice notes.

They, a third feel like it really helps them feel connected to their date. Like, I'm pro voice. No, but I'm not pro, like, pushing a boundary when you've already set up a date. Yeah. I just think that guy was off.

It's off. It's an egg. Yes. And especially, like, to sense a one of voice note that sounds like it could be sent from a murder and a harm movie.

Okay, if you're I still need that voice note, it's really weird. Come out and play. Like, it's like the modern day screen. Totally. Catherine, I need a voice note.

All right, we won't be paying for the wine tonight. Give it to me in five minutes or you won't be seeing my face. Click, like, yeah, I don't like any of that. I hate a surprise. I, I, from someone I don't know.

I don't want that. I don't want to play your game.

This is not what I, especially from someone I've never met.

I have no investment in you. I guess who this is. No, even when I'm not guessing. Good boy. I've had people guess who, hey, I have to blow.

I write back if someone like has my number and they say, yes, so I write back. I have to block if you don't tell me who this is. Right away, no fun. That's very good. That was a fun with a number.

I don't have saved. We'll have fun after the name is in my phone. That's why I have fun with. I have plenty of people have fun. It's so funny because I feel like obviously we all get all those text

spam messages and some of them look are so good. Like, I got one that was like, hey, do you want to hop on the phone later to talk? And I was like, wait, which one am I, like, anyway, that is funny. If somebody, if it's spam messages was like, guess who? I had someone, they were like, a friend of mine is getting into comedy.

I would love for you to speak to them. I was like, of course, whatever you need. And it was like a week before I told, I was on a group chat. And I was like, hey, here's, you have my number, seven o'clock Tuesday. Just shoot me a text before to let me know that you want to do the call.

So the next Tuesday comes along and they're like, hey, it's Angela. And I'm like, please, I, I wrote back so seriously. Like, I was like, this is not, I was like, angered by it.

“Wait, was the point that you didn't remember the name?”

Like, why was it? I didn't save the number. It's a week before. So like, there's a text chain with a friend of mine and this Angela. Yeah, I don't know if that's a name.

But it's like, and then I get, hey, it's Angela. Like, no, no. It should have said, hey, it's Angela comma. So in so's friend, are you still on to talk about comedy? That's the, that's the text.

Okay. That's the text. And then I spoke to them and they were 24 and they were young. You know, like, and I wrote back, I go, Angela, who? Like, I wrote back as if I was the stern principle.

Like, I was like super intended to feed. Like, I was like, Angela, who am I speaking with? Like, I was like, and I, and I said them, I got in the phone of them, I was like, word of the wise. Like, announce who you are.

Not a text we want to get.

“I think it's notable that they're 24 because it's like,”

it kind of maybe is like a professional etiquette thing that they don't have yet. Totally. Let's do another interview. You ready?

You, you, [email protected], go sign up for the YouTube. We got so much great stuff on YouTube. We do these, you up for more, these, you up for extras. We do YouTube exclusives with all the guests that come on here. So you're going to get you up for more on YouTube.

We want you to sign up. It is fun, and you can't get it on the audio stream. And let's hear about if it's a subscriber. So, all right, ready? Let's do another email.

J and J and L, writing you about a breakup. It's been harder than I expected. I'd love your perspective. If 31 recently dated a 34-year-old guy for about three months early on, we talked about exclusivity and agreed to be exclusive, but he didn't want to put a boyfriend girlfriend

label on things.

He had gotten out of a two-year relationship at six-eight months before we met, said he always

gets in a serious relationship right away, monogamy wasn't really an issue for him. It was about moving too fast. I felt we were getting what we both wanted, and I understood wanting to move slowly. I always felt that the breakup was hovering over us and holding things back. I was usually the one making plans, and we saw each other a few times a week, and texting

in between. We connected well, but we started having small, but frequent disagreements about plans, texting, and other petty things. I tried to be patient, play a cool, but over time I realized that wasn't really feeling secure or happy.

After I fight a couple weeks ago, he was while he was on a work trip. I told him I didn't think we could keep moving forward. He was really upset, and I told him I felt he needed more time to work on himself. Even though I believed it was the right decision, I was still heartbroken. I know three months is in a long time, but the connection felt real, and I'm left wondering,

if I had met him at a time when he was really ready for a relationship with things have been different. Does timing really matter that much?

“Or is this just a case of the wrong person still thinking about what ifs?”

What do you think? Timing? I like this one a lot. I feel like I can answer it in a few is. I can answer it broadly about just the concept of timing and relationships, and I can

answer it specifically about this person. I think specifically for this person, I'm like, I don't think the issue was timing. You're telling me that within three months you're getting in a lot of disagreements and fights, I don't think it had to do with the fact that he got out of a two year relationship six to eight months before, I think you're just not a good fit.

The first six months are the honeymoon phase.

You only see the positives in people. You're still sort of wearing your mask of seeming like you're this perfect person, and I find it's often after six months that the mask comes off, and people are more their real self. I feel like they're just not a great fit because they are having this many disagreements

such a short time in, and it doesn't sound like their disagreements are about him not being ready for a relationship or exclusivity or about title, like she said monogamy is easy for him.

“I think that they're actually just not a match, but she needs a story in her head to kind”

of understand why it didn't work out, and she's pointing to timing, but my guess based on the disagreement stuff is that it wasn't timing, and then for the broad time, I was looking to add on to that, anytime I've said to someone, yeah, we're together, but we're not together. Yeah.

We're together, but not, whenever I've said to someone, let's check in, we're in a relationship, but let's not put a label on it yet, I'm not ready for that. That was me buying time. So he's buying time to make his decision. I think we have to acknowledge that a lot of men myself included are sitting there trying

to be convinced to be more delusional than logical, so like a lot of women, they're like, I got it already, I'm ready to go, this is like a job, and you got your job, and I'm at the age, and you're at the age, she even references his age and her age, which a lot of our listeners do, but I'm saying a lot of that, we went on a four hour date, a lot of women are like, give you all these facts to be like, and for this reason, we are good

enough to see if we could be together forever. And I think what we have to acknowledge the fact that I am delusional enough to think that I'm going to be swept off my feet, men are way more romantic than they're given credit for. Do you hear this a lot?

Oh, yeah. And I think we see it in our research at hinge. It's like people think that Gen Z is so pragmatic that they're not romantic, but they're actually more romantic than Melania, it was like they're more likely to believe, they're one person out there, they're just so late for you.

And I don't have the exact stop, but I think men are way more romantic than people think. Right, and because I have this in me, where I'm like, I'm just going to be flying away on a love cloud, after a cupid hits me with their arrow. And the minute I say, I'm having a good time, I'm just like not there yet, is the minute, I'm trying to convince myself into this going with delusion versus staying in the reality

of like, I don't really see it, and I don't really feel it. And I have like a little pit in my stomach. So I think like when this guy says like, I'll be to get, you know, let's be together. But I think he's really just buying time to like, maybe get have like something hit them

I think I've a slightly different take, which is that I've talked to a lot of people about

defining their relationship, what are we conversation?

“And I think nowadays like there's a few things, there's like, are we exclusive or not?”

And what is exosivity mean, there's, are we deleting the app or not? And then there's, is there a label on it? And I do find that there are people that are just anti-label, but they're interested in everything else. And I'm kind of like, how important is the label?

But I feel like you're saying like, no, the label does matter because it's like a sign of your commitment or interest. And so I don't feel like what this guy did is that bad. Like, I don't know, maybe I'm just like relating to it a lot. I don't think it's bad.

Yeah. Certain rough. I don't think it's bad. But I do think the label is what he tells people. Yeah.

When he's alone, that is what he says to someone, are you in a relationship?

And he can still say no. That's true. You can still see him as quote. What's that? I forgot who it's from, but it's like, are you seeing anyone know?

Is there a person who'd be upset to hear you say that? Is it right? Is there a person that would be mad? Is it like Dimitri Martin or something? Something like that.

And I, I just think like, if someone's not getting the label, what he is doing is, I mean, honestly, if I don't have a, if I'm not in a boyfriend girlfriend thing, that leaves me open to the opportunity to be swept off my feet. In the way I was just referring to. But if you're exclusive, theoretically you're not pursuing other people.

Theoretically. Yeah.

“But if some dream scenario, and I think that's what they're opening up to you.”

But that could even happen if you did have a label. I think that's the thing about cheating and it's like, if you're in a monogamous relationship, someone could still cheat. If you're in a polyamorous relationship, they're still cheating. It's like, we, we tell ourselves that we're protected.

Right. But then you're not a cheater, you know, like, you know, I think there's a difference. Have you cheated? Well, there's, there's no debate ability. You know, you can't, yeah, you're saying he can, he has wiggle room.

He has, well, I call it, when someone says I want to put a label on, I call it a pre-breakup. Like I think he is just setting up the scene to be able to end this easier than it would have been. Had you put a label on it. Okay, so let me give you a different way of thinking about it.

Okay. And I feel like I have been this person, and I've seen this lot in coaching.

Someone's like, oh, I always get into relationships too quickly.

Like in my book, I call this a hitcher. Like they just hitched themselves as someone else's wagon. I want to move out of that. So I'm promising myself that after this most recent breakup, I'm going to be single for six months.

And then two months in, they meet someone they really like. And they don't want to let that opportunity go, but they also want to keep their promise to themselves in their mind, which is like, I'm not going to do what I always do, which is get into relationship too quickly. So there's a part of them that's like, I really do like you.

I am being sucked off my feet, but I need to stay true to myself and not jump into things too quickly. Right. Don't you think that they're keeping that open because of this magical other thing that they're like, maybe that could happen?

I think that some people might feel that way, but in the example I'm giving, it's more of an identity piece, which is like, I've told my therapist, I've told my mom, I told my best friend, like, I am not going to do it again, or I just jump into a relationship. And for them, it's about staying true to the promise they made versus, well, if I have a label, I can't see anyone else, but if I don't have a label, I can see someone else.

It's almost like, they just want, they want to have the growth that they've sort of promised themselves. I think both could be true. Right. I just, when you're like saying, I want to have the growth I was promised myself.

Like, some of that is the magic, you know, the unknown, the not disappointing someone else. I don't know, I, we might be saying the same thing.

“I think, yeah, I just remember like the guy that I dated before my husband, after maybe”

a month of hanging out, he was like, do you want to be my girlfriend? And I was like, I really like you, but I got out of something kind of quickly. I just don't, I don't want to have that title again right now. And then like a month later, we have the conversation and we did it. But the reason I said, no, wasn't, I don't know if I like you or not.

It's more like, I don't want to be this person that like, Tarzan swings from one relationship than now. So I think both can be true. But you're not with that guy anymore. No, but it's not because of that.

Okay, but I'm saying like, when you say, I don't want to like, you know, I'm just like, when you say like, well, not right now, like, yeah, I feel like a lot of relationships are like sprinting into like, like you have to be so like crazy to think that this is the one amongst all the other ones, this is the one that like, we're going to definitely work out, like, I don't even care about the other things.

I don't know. Any time I've been in the position where I'm like, let's not put a label on that. I'm like, it's me being like, oh, maybe this was, you know, I don't know.

I'm like, why am I even sitting here thinking about this?

“I think what you're saying makes sense and probably a lot of people feel that way.”

But I also feel like it seems like very true to you and where you're at because if you go back to the conversation we had at the beginning, it's like, I don't want to make a promise I can't keep. So for you a label is a promise you might not be able to keep or I think you have a fear of things not working out.

So you don't want to over commit or like, I'm not saying like all, you know, he rarely, you know, but even in this scenario, we connect it well, but then, and she's sitting there, like, well, should I go back? And because she ended it, she's wondering, he wouldn't just sat around there in no relationship town.

Or, like, she's wondering, did I make a mistake leaving a guy who was like really cool with this before relationship area that was not that bad, but it wasn't what I wanted. I don't think she broke up with him because she didn't have the label. I think what's happening is that she's 31 and she's like, wow, I don't meet that many guys that I like.

Right.

I don't have that many chances to like meet someone great.

I did feel a connection with him. Did I make a mistake in breaking it off and should I have given him more time or was it a timing thing? And what I would say to her, if she was standing in front of us is, you broke things off because it wasn't a good match.

It didn't have to do with timing and it didn't have to do with how you didn't have a label. Like you guys were fighting super early on. You were having all these disagreements. And so like, yes, it sucks that you met someone you had a connection with and didn't work out, but don't have regret over it.

Because when you're fighting that early, when it should be these like smooth sailing honey moon months, it was that you weren't the right match, not timing. Do you be a batches.com? Let's play some games. We're going to play some games.

Oh wait, can I say one more thing? Okay, I did want to make the point about like general timing stuff. So I used to believe that the timing thing was an excuse and then if it was the right person, they would make the timing work. But I would say my thinking on that has evolved over the years where if it's the right

person, wrong time, then it's the wrong person.

“And so do you know this like famous sex in the city, quote, about like a taxi light?”

Yeah, Jordanna's informed me about the taxi line. I'm not going to say it perfectly, but it's basically, you know, men are like taxis when their light is on, they are ready to commit and they sort of like marry the next person

they date and then Charlotte is like, yeah, but with women, like their light is always

on. I think that's a generalization, but it goes to a lot of stuff you're saying where you're like the woman is building the nest and like she's ready for the relationship. And so I think that timing does really matter. And that if someone's like caring for an alien parent or about to move across the country

or it's like in medical school and doesn't have time, like that timing does matter. But in this situation, I don't think it's an issue of timing. Yeah, the timing does matter. Oh, I'm going to say this quote. Okay, men are like cabs when they're available, their light goes on.

They wake up one day and decide they're ready to settle down, have babies, whatever, and they turn their light on. The next woman they pick up, boom, that's the one they'll marry. It makes it so not fun. Which part that kind of makes it like that kind of takes the magic out of a relationship

that this guy, like I feel like both ends. Like the women are just ready to be picked up by some random guy. Like what happened with anybody who was just ready. I know, that is. It does take like the same thing.

It's a little depressing. I understand why it's, it has truth. Have you ever heard women say like there's something about me, like I, every guy, he marriage the next girl he dates up and actor me. I've had that with me, where I've, I've dated a lot of women that they've, and married

the next guy. I think that's because they were ready and they would have been ready with you, but you weren't ready. Right. I think they would have been ready for me.

I, which is like, that's another scary part for me personally, like, just any, yeah, let's do this. Oh, let's just do this lifetime commitment. I know. I know we're not in like the Jared coaching part anymore, but I just feel like such a strong

urge to say to you, like, I think you just have so much fear. And I get it. It's like, if they don't care, someone has to care. What do you mean? I'm, like, I think a lot of men, like, you know, especially from this show, I get the

takeaway is like, that, this will work, you know, and I don't know, you, you know, this will work to get me where I'm going. You're saying women say that? I think it, it feels like a lot of women's response to a lot of guys, like, I can do with this.

Yeah. And you want it to be a woman who's like, Jared, I've liked you more than anyone I've ever liked. No. I want to like them more than anyone I've ever liked, you know, and I think, like, that's

also the performance in me, like, I go on a date and I would, like, be like, yeah, this will be good with a lot of people, like, I.

“But I think that's like the reality of life is that you don't wait until you're 50 and”

you find the perfect person, you find someone great, and then you build a wonderful relationship with them. Right. And I do think the older you got, the more you're like, I've waited this long, like, she

Let's play some games. You, you, pppeaches.com. We're going to play Red Flag or Deal Breaker. This is the game sweeping the country. Something you're dating someone, one thing happens is it a red flag.

You see it move on or is it a deal breaker? You end it sight on scene. Are you ready? Yeah. J. J. and L. I'm writing it with a red flag or deal breaker scenario.

I'd love your take on. I want a few dates with a guy that were genuinely great, easy conversation, effort, and person. And clear interest when we were together. The issue was everything between the dates.

He rarely followed up, didn't check in. Plan stayed vague unless I initiated and confirmed them.

At first, I told myself this was just his communication style.

But when I stopped filling in the gaps and matched his energy, the connection immediately fizzled, no follow-up text, no add fun message, no attempt to make the next plan. Red Flag or Deal Breaker, if someone only shows interest when you're face to face,

“is that a normal dating mismatch or is it or is the lack of follow-through already the answer?”

I love this one. I think people who aren't single would be surprised to hear how often, like coaching lines or people in my dating classes, ask about texting, like texting is such a big part of relationships, especially at the beginning. Right.

It is one of those things. Mary, people have no empathy for. They don't think that the text in between matters at all. You're just going on a date. You've been on five dates.

They're very caught up. It's like almost like being like, you didn't like the turkey sandwich. Well, it had nothing on it. And they're like, well, it's turkey and bread. And you're like, well, I kind of like want some mayonnaise and some lettuce and tomato and

mustard and, you know, I like when it's toasted and they're like, well, you have turkey and bread. Totally. Just eat the turkey and bread. You said you're hungry for turkey sandwich.

I gave you what turkey sandwich. And you're like, yeah, but like, a little pepper jack cheese on it would be not really, you need pepper jack. That's what the text is. I feel like you're texting is the pepper jack cheese on a turkey sandwich.

And your friends are like, stop complaining. I feel like you're channeling your mom the day after Thanksgiving, giving you a turkey sandwich. That's just turkey and bread. And you're like, mom, this isn't enough. Right.

I want the, the, the gobler. I want the cranberry sauce and I want the stuffing that's put on the thing.

“And it does feel like this is, because I think the texting between does matter.”

Well, your metaphor is a little strange, but I do like it. Which is the modern data is saying it's not a turkey sandwich without the condiments. And the married person is saying all that matters the turkey sandwich. I think more and more the texting is a must have. And at hench we have a good term for this digital body language.

It's the way the, it's a great term. Yeah. So does your DBL match or what is their DBL, their digital body language mean? And so the person writing in is like, they're, IRL person is great. But their DBL persona leaves a lot to be desired and does it matter.

And like in our research at hench, we've seen that like in early dating the first few weeks,

the first few months, like it does matter a lot, because that's the majority of the time that you're spending together. You're not married. You're not in a house where there's more IRL interactions. And so what I would say to the person who wrote in is if they were just like quote

unquote a bad texture, but they still were in touch and they still were putting effort in just not as much as you want. I'd be like, okay, that's not ideal, but it's fine. It's like you are willing to accept this minimum and they're willing to give you that minimum, even though you'd want more than that.

But it seemed like this person is so extreme. They're not even like meeting her minimum.

“And I think at that point, it's like you took a step back and he didn't take a step”

forward. And that's all you need to know. Well, I, I, I'm with you. I love digital body language because I think it helps when it comes to texting between dates.

I think putting it in a new form is like not a great way to go because you can't like force someone. You can't push a string. Yeah. You can't force someone to be a good text or, and then who, the person that takes over

this conversation is usually a societally hot person will go, I'm a bad text. I know. It's an excuse. And it's an excuse. That's not a real excuse.

That is someone who's societally hot who people go out with no matter what text or no text. I can get away with this. Right.

They are, in a way, a head to put on someone's wall, so they've never had to do texting

between or never felt the texting between matter to them because it just didn't work into how they flirt and how they connect with someone because someone doesn't need to connect with them. They're just a beautiful thing that can be chased. So I don't really acknowledge the people that say bad text or I think if you keep it

an I terms, the bad text or is actually like not a problem because I would say if I have

What's the I terms thing here?

“So I'm saying, they're a bad text or is like not the way you should be talking about.”

Yeah. I would like to text them this inside joke that we had on the date. So I shall send that text. Do they get back to it, do they ha ha, do they say, hey, this is so funny. I actually have this busy day today and I can't really text you, but I'll see you this

Tuesday and let's discuss this. That is a normal way for anyone good text or a bad text or to respond to that. So if I have nothing to text this person, then I do not like this person enough to go out with them again, good or bad text. So I think when this person is like they don't text me in between, I'm like what the fuck

are you doing, bitch? Wait, I love this topic because I'm just like obsessed with this idea, like the role of texting in early dating and it reminds me, I hadn't thought about this in a while, but like a few years ago, I tweeted something like, unless you're a brain surgeon, you can get back to someone within 24 hours and then somebody responded and was like, I am

a brain surgeon and I can definitely get back to someone quicker than in 24 hours. And listen, 24 hours is a low bar, so it's really low. So I've had people text me and I'm like, wow, I didn't really get back to them. I'm like, I must not play that interested. I know.

All it takes and especially with reaction emojis, I mean, reaction, all you do, aha, makes someone feel really good. Do you care enough to make someone feel really good? Do you care enough to make someone like feel connected and feel heard? Okay, I will say there is a certain type of person.

I was seeing a guy a long time ago who had this personality and one of my best friends, this is this personality, when you're with them, they're incredibly present.

You feel like the only person in the world, they never check their phone and it's amazing

for the in real life, but they also are really bad at getting in touch with you because every time that they're with someone else or doing something, they're not on their phone. And so it's like the shadow side of how present they are is that they don't get back to you. But I think this person isn't just grabbing that, they're describing something more

intense, it's like even if you're super present with the person you're with, like literally while you're going to the bathroom, can you not respond for 15 seconds? It's not even what the response though. Yeah. Like I actually, let's take the response out of it.

Yeah. Your friends who don't respond that well or that or that often, that's not the concern. Do you, whenever I hear this, this, this, this, this emo, we've gotten it before. It's always like, well, they're not a good texture, they're this, they're that.

“How about what do you have to say to them?”

So you think it's about the fact that they don't have enough in common?

I think that they're not really connecting with this person and they're hoping that they're going to be as good on the date or think about them as much. But I think she's saying in person, we connect really well. Yeah. And they're saying, because we connect, I was hoping that they would have like a fun thing

to say to me in between these dates. Let's stop confusing, stop confusing hope for a plan. It's not a plan. The plan is I, like, I just think there's no responsibility taking this person. And you go, if they'd said, if there's question was, hey, I want on this day with this

guy, we really connected on football. Yeah. And then I sent them this, the guy who went streaking during the Super Bowl. And they did it right back. Yeah.

The guy who ran on the field during the Super Bowl, he wore meta glasses and taped the whole experience. So I sent it to him. If you thought of that to send them, then you did have a good connection. You thought of something.

And then if they didn't write back to that at all, I would be like, it would be a little weird. I could talk about this with you for hours because to me, it actually gets at like a pretty deep existential question, which is like, what is real life? Is real life when you're in person face to face and everything else is just like connection

to get you there or is your digital life your real life, too. And that's a philosophical debate that has nothing to do with their feelings. Do you feel underwhelmed by their response to something you brought up from the day? If you do, that's okay. Okay.

Let me just go back to what I think. I do agree, I think you're right, I'll just say it a different way, which is like, there

“are people out there who would be like, real life is the only thing that matters and that's”

in person. And I think increasingly younger people, Gen Z, Gen Alpha would be like, my digital life, my Roblox life is just as much my life as seeing my friends. And so of course texting matters. And then I think in this situation, she's like, how could we have such a good connection

to person and like genuinely bond but have nothing overtax? And I think what it boils down to for this person is he doesn't like you enough to do the bare minimum to see you again. And once you stop trying, he didn't try it. Also, this isn't your person. Well, and I, I think she has to admit, I do get turned on by a text, a textual relationship.

Or I need it. She feels secure. And she's not getting what she needs to feel secure. Right. They're supposed to, they don't do this, they don't do that.

Like, who gives a shit about them? Yeah, it's like, she's got to acknowledge, I do need these things.

You know, like, that's like the biggest, like, I, I agree with what you're saying. Like, there are these people. But like, there are these people that I don't want to fuck your day. I think that's the only way. And if two people that don't care about texting don't text a lot, then that's great.

But she is a person for whom texting or at least making plans needs to be there. And he can't give that to her. I think she has to walk away.

The whole premise of this podcast always was, um, these are the conversations that someone

could go, oh, that's stupid, that's small. And it's like, well, we're acknowledging they're not that small. So I think she needs to say, this isn't that small to me, it could be stupid to someone else. Let's do one more question.

“And also, that's why it's called you up.”

It's literally like a text that is common throughout early dating and like that text matters. It matters. It's not nothing. Just a one more, uh, Logan Yary, we're so happy you're here. Everyone go follow @LoganYary, J.J. and L.

I'm a guy writing in because I need to know if I'm losing my mind or if dating in New York City has just become this lately, every woman I meet seems to have built a life so optimized, so perfectly scheduled that there's literally no room for another human being. I'm not asking to be someone's whole world. I just want to exist somewhere on the priority list between Pilates and her nine steps

skin care routine. Don't get me wrong. These women are ambitious, organized and clearly know what they want, but honestly, a lot of them are also rigid. I've tried suggesting a spontaneous dinner and get told it's her Sunday reset, or I try

to make plans and it has to fit into a 90 minute window between her cold, plunge and therapy. I even asked one girl to grab drinks and she said she'd have to check if it aligns with her bandwidth. Her bandwidth. I felt like I was negotiating a corporate merger boundaries are fine.

I respect that. But here's something I can't stop thinking is a possible deal breaker. If someone's schedule is so rigid that making time for me isn't possible, it signals they won't prioritize the relationship long term.

“That makes dating feel transactional and not human and honestly, that's exhausting.”

Has dating always been like this or is this just an NYC thing?

Am I missing something or is it just really that no one wants to make space for a relationship with love your thoughts? Exhaustable is still trying. What do you think? I have a lot of thoughts, but do you want to go first as a guy?

Well, I would say there's two versions. I've met this person and I've also met the person and it's like, open any time, make a plan, we are so pumped, can't wait. To me, when I've dated this person, it felt like a defense mechanism to not get ahead of themselves.

They built a whole life because maybe a relationship in the past or relationships in general have disappointed them, where they've gotten ahead emotionally and they're like, I'm not going to do that anymore. I'm going to plan the fuck out of my life with classes and girls' nights and dinners and drinks.

And I call him the Aunt Olman because they generally always have a nephew or a niece that

they're way too into. Like they always have a nephew or a niece that they do more for this nephew or niece than I've ever seen an aunt do ever. So they always have a nephew and a niece, they're so into that person. I can't even understand the amount they do for this nephew or niece, but they put all of

their effort and emotion into those things because if they even leave a little on the table for a guy to have a little fun and get a little carried away, then they might get disappointed by that and it will ruin everything for them. So that's my, I've met this girl and to me, it's like a no-go on a date because now we have two different philosophies.

Me, a guy who's looking to like casually get to know someone to become like a friend who becomes a lover who becomes this like thing that makes me get away from the logical and it's a person who's asking me to fit into their logical thing and go on the line of logical which I can't do. So they're generally someone I couldn't date.

Wait, have you ever done that on stage the like nefarious and energy? No. I think it's a really funny thing. I did, we'll make it a clip, we'll do that. I've talked about the aunt woman before and he is a, no, but I've never talked about

that on stage. I just think it's a very funny to be like everyone's always like she's such a great aunt. You're like, let's dig into that right there. Well, it's like, yeah, she's a great aunt because she doesn't want to deal with their own feelings in the back.

She wants to play house with another person's family. Really, buddy. I mean, I've seen this, you see it all the time. But this is like the other edge of like woman who's looking to, I've seen this from my end in dating.

But what do you think? Okay. So what I think is guys like, that's one type of woman and it does exist. But why are you only dating that type of woman and there is something there? It's like, are you particularly drawn to people that are super organized and type A?

And maybe you think that's who you should be with because you're just organized. You want them to organize your life and then it turns out they're too rigid for you.

“It's like, I think step one is like, just data different type of person, right?”

The other thing I would say is that something I've seen a lot in my research at hinge and I did this Gen Z panel is that people are so obsessed with self care and I think at some point self care becomes self-ish and it's like, if you want love, if you want a relationship, you have to make space for someone in your life and someone on this hinge

the right person when they can fit exactly into my schedule and I'm like, that is wild. That is insane to me. Like, no, when you meet someone great, they are worth becoming more flexible for. Like of course, it's two different people coming together.

They're not just like somebody that looks at your calendar and like slots themselves in.

“Like, I don't think that that's how romance works and what they respect that person.”

That's how I, it's like kind of pathetic. It's like, no, you want someone with a full life and then the two of you decide together, we're going to merge our lives, we're going to merge our social lives. It's not like they're your assistant and like, they just meet when you're free. I think that that's just really like the wrong way of looking at it and I'm passionate

about this topic because they think that boundaries are a good thing when used correctly. But I think that people overuse that term or reuse that concept to kind of be like, everything is on my terms or else and I think that it is what you said. I think it's kind of like a theorist response where it's like, I'm trying to control things or like, I feel safer when things are in control and then the way that they feel in control

is like, I have my nine step skincare routine or like I always go to bed at this time

and it's like part of falling in love, part of meeting someone is like, sometimes like, you mix things up and yeah, I just, I just don't think I'm sorry, I don't think I just don't think you're, how can you get to know someone that way? Of course. It would feel more like interview.

Definitely. Those dates, where it's like, I mean, I had this, I was, someone tried to fix me up with this girl and so beautiful and tried to do it over Instagram. So I'm looking at her life and it's great, but she was like, she was always surfing and

“always out east and I'm like, well, how would a second, and this is me getting ahead?”

Am I, how does a second date happen? Like, am I going to be taking them away from this travel out east surfing lifestyle, you know, like, I do think that's one where you're getting ahead of yourself because what if she's like, Jared, like, of course I would change my schedule if we fall in love, like surfing is something I do because I have free time, but if I'd less free time, I'd surf less, it's fun to use a surfing because like a long time

ago I dated this guy who was super athletic and it was like, I felt like he had this like pinboard or whatever that thing is where you like spin it, like whatever and I was like, oh, I feel like there's one that says surfing, there's one that says biking, there's one that says running and that I was just like one of them and it's like, if you happen

to spin it and land on me, I got to see him, but I never came before those other activities.

I was like, equal or below to them and so that didn't work out, but so I think you can have hobbies and dates someone, but it's really what you choose to prioritize and so what I'm hearing from his letter is these women are not prioritizing me or they're not only prioritizing me at the beginning and I think that it takes a lot of momentum to get into relationship, so yeah, you do have to adjust your schedule.

“Right, is it a deal breaker, I think for him, like I think his type is showing itself,”

like, and this isn't his type, and then that's not the only girl in New York. The problem is I do understand where he's like, maybe he's turned on by like a type of a business woman who's like a powerful career, you know, woman, it's like it sucks that he's like, to get to the thing I want, like there's no real easy way into that world, like to like serve how I date someone and, you know, maybe that's seeing what it's

like the day, you know, a certain other type of woman. Yeah, and I think everyone's on a spectrum, like there's probably a spectrum from like

the most type A every minute of my day is scheduled to I'm always free.

I'm super loosey Goosey, and I think he needs to date someone like more in the middle. Right. This is a deal breaker for him, you know, like, I don't know if it's a deal breaker. I was a person, but I, because like, I don't know, if I was told, like, I don't know, I wouldn't be for me either.

You have 90 minutes to convince me that my skincare routine doesn't matter as much next week as, like, kind of a tough one of the things that I think that he should talk to with therapists or somebody about this, which is why is he so drawn to this type of person? And because I have seen this pattern before, and I kind of said this before, but it's

like someone who's like disorganized or indecisive or feel lost in their career, they want to partner with someone who seems like really ambitious and they know what they're doing, because they think that that decisiveness will rub off. When like that's actually something he needs to change on his own, and you can't borrow that from your partner, and instead he needs to find someone who's honestly more on the

same pages him and not date someone to become more like them. Logan, you already. Thank you for coming on the show. This is fantastic. Everyone, go follow you.

Logan, at Logan, Yuri, how to not dial on the book is out right now. You can buy it. Go, go, go, go. Get it. I'm Jared Fried.

We're here every Wednesday and Friday. Back next episode. Boom. Back to us.