Jheri South: ADHD, RSD & Emotional Dysregulation in Relationships, Parenting & Addiction

that I need to be doing this all the time,

“or I'm being lazy, and I'm not productive enough,”

and there's always something better I could be doing with my time.

I don't think that that's a very comfortable way to live. If someone has a problem with substance use disorder, please call one call placement. That's 888-831-1581, and if we can't help you, we'll make a referral to someone who can.

One call placement is affiliated with career treatment, wellness, and spa, and one method treatment centers. Today on "We're Out of Time," I'm joined by ADHD coach and advocate Jerry South. Jerry works with adults and families to better understand

how ADHD affects focus, motivation, emotional regulation, and everyday life. Her work also looks at how untreated ADHD can overlap with anxiety, burnout, and even addiction when people don't have the right tools or sport.

She's helping ship the conversation around ADHD, especially for parents trying to better their understanding and their kids.

Jerry, first of all, I'm obsessed.

Because I saw all of your videos, and normally I'll look at a couple. But this one I looked at all of them. Now I looked at them a couple days ago, and I forgot that we had this podcast going on.

So I forgot what the name is, but I was enthralled with what you were talking about. And it had something to do with the fact,

“I think it was you take everything personally.”

Yes. And what's I called again? You're talking about rejection, sensitive dysphoria, or will call it RSD for short. I love that.

Okay, we're going to call it RFD. RSD. RSD. RSD. Yes.

I almost called it an STD. RSD. Okay, is explain it. Yes. Okay.

So in this is really, I'm glad we're talking about this, because about five years ago, nobody had ever even heard RSD. So we're thinking ADHD is lack of focus,

“not being able to follow through even hyperactivity.”

But actually, just as impairing, if not more impairing is RSD. It is the emotional dysregulation side of ADHD. And so really, some of the specialists have said, if they could go back and they could redefine ADHD,

it would be distractability and emotional dysregulation.

So RSD don't think of it as a second diagnosis,

because 99% of everyone with ADHD will experience rejection sensitive dysphoria. So it's essentially a subset of ADHD. Yes. But it mirrors a major mood disorder.

And so, of course, ADHD's a spectrum, right? So some people really, like, I could have been the walking poster child, just so you know, for RSD and my 20s. I felt like I was being clawed from the inside out. It's this constant experience of rejection

from things that are usually more, it's just perceived rejection. So it can be triggered by teasing. It can be triggered by the idea that you didn't meet your own expectations or fail to meet someone else's.

That's not where it comes. That's not the point. Interesting to me. The part that's interesting to me is love relationships. Okay.

Because, right? I assume that this comes with the tester. Right? So the guy that says, "I'm going to wait for her to call me." If she likes me, she'll call me.

Okay? I've been calling her too much. Right? And she doesn't call. Right?

And you are so, but heard, over that. Right? Yes. This is the kind of thing that happens. So this is the kind of thing that keeps people from having successful relationships.

Absolutely. I mean, this is why when I'm working with ADHDers, everyone's thinking, "Oh, executive function. We're working more on healthy boundaries and expectations and managing your emotions." More than anything else with my clients because it's ruining romantic relationships, of course.

That's the hardest work. But relationships everywhere. Boss. Sometimes they can't hold a job. They're in laws.

And they think, "Oh, I'm not good enough."

Okay. You don't want me there. I'm just what they say. Sometimes it's what they don't say.

“Well, if you loved me, you would have said this thing.”

So this was your thing. You were suffering from RSD. You took everything personally. Right? Okay.

I do that too. That's why I was enthralled with it. Yes. I perceive disrespect where none of it exists. Right?

Okay. And then I get, and then I'm on one. Okay? Yeah. We call that an episode.

This is an episode of the number one mental health podcast in the country. And the host just said he's got RSD and he didn't know what it was five minutes ago. So there you have it. Vulnerability. That's what we need.

We need more of that. We need to hear that we all struggle with this because it's your wiring. It's not your personality. So the way your brain was wired to react. It's so sensitive to the idea that you've been rejected.

And when it's triggered, it spirals. Nobody can get you out of that episode. By the way, have you noticed this? If you're in an episode and someone's trying to calm you down or even apologize. It just spikes.

You have to go. Take some time to take care of that. Nobody else is going to be able to de-escalate that for you. It's not just that. You're so triggered that any amends that's made is not going to be sufficient because you're so triggered.

Exactly. Exactly. So isn't the work? It would seem to me. And again, I don't do this.

The same might, the same my wheelhouse.

But it's critical in order for us to help more people now.

And my therapists are the best in the world. And they are far more knowledgeable than me. That goes without saying. So I'm sure we're already working on it. If I said, do you guys know what RSD was?

They'd probably laugh at me and say, "Sure, sweetheart. Do you want to know what it is?" But it would seem to me like the work around this is trying to get people to understand that Hebrew people have their own lives. Everybody's narcissistic or selfish in their own way.

Dealing with their own thing. It ain't about you. Why are you personalizing this? Let's unpack this one thing and go through it and see where you got triggered and then identify what the problem is there.

And so we can get you out of that pattern. Is that how you're dealing with it? Or is there another way to deal with it? Yes. I'm sure a lot of my clients in the moment, they don't know that what they're experiencing

isn't real. They have to reflect back. And so this comes from practice, right? They're having them read up on RSD because the only thing that some of my clients can say to themselves is, "This is happening.

This feels very real." But it's possible. It's possible to not real because I have RSD because they can't identify that in the moment. In fact, some of my clients, this isn't common.

But some of them get so triggered. They can't remember what they said in the middle of an episode. They're just shouting things out later.

“They're hearing that they said things and they're like, "I don't, I don't even remember that."”

I swear to God, Chris, I thought that happened to everybody. Just because it's to me, right?

It's like if you've got bad eyes and you've never worn glasses and then you put glasses on

for the first time and you're like, "Whoa, this is how people see. But you don't know what you don't know." Right? Well, and then tell me if you experience this because there's a lot of shame that goes along with this because later when you're coming back down from this episode, you're embarrassed.

You know, usually, you know that your reaction was much bigger than the situation warranted. Whether you kept it inside, as some people do, they just spiral inside or they let it all out. It's damaging to relationships. It takes a lot of work to repair that. And you've got like seven kids, right?

Yes, and they're all neurodivergence, so it's been a journey. I've been fine. You're going straight to heaven. I hope so. I'm trying really hard.

So my husband's on the spectrum and I have ADHD and so all seven of my children have won or the other or both. That must be the most fun house alive. It's fine and chaotic. Because you're all little.

“I was going to say nuts in the best way, but that's not very true.”

Doesn't matter. We don't have to be clinical. It is true. So it's an, and I'm the guy that embraces my insanity.

First of all, I don't go off on anybody who doesn't deserve it.

That's number one. Okay. I've got this filter where I can, I mean listen, I've been doing this a long time. So I've had a lot of practice and I'm the most over-therapised person I've ever met. So I have the ability to stop and actually determine whether or not I'm going to lose it on somebody.

Okay. And 95% of the time I don't, I just don't anymore. So I have that, that, that brief filter. But you're pausing. I mean, that's the thing is.

RSD is so impulsive. It's impulsive thoughts. It's impulsive behaviors.

“And so if we can teach ourselves and I believe that we can.”

To pause. Some people have to be on medication while they're learning. Others can do it on their own. But it's pausing and not rushing. This is the impairment of neurodivergence.

It's rushing to meaning without taking the time to interpret them. Well, you know what's interesting for ADHD. Have I told you, have you, do you, are you aware of the five things that engage the ADHD brain and get us into hyper focus? Have you heard that? Not.

Okay. So I have my own acronym for this. It's wired. But it's your wants. So anything that's, you're passionate about.

Interest. Where am I, are rivalries. So competition challenge, rivalry. Um, emergency or anything that's urgent. And then anything that's different novelty.

So one of those five things has to be present for the ADHD brain to really get engaged and even have a chance at getting into hyper focus. Uh, that's totally different than a neurotypical brain.

“Neurotypical brain can get engaged just because something in front of them is important or there will be some kind of reward at the end.”

Usually that's out of really useless for an ADHD brain. But the reason I bring this up, like when it comes to relationships. This is why sometimes ADHDers struggle in relationships because when the novelty wears off and the work. So you know, starts to come to the surface. It stops being fun.

And it really messes with our feelings. Right. Gotta hate that part. I hate the whole one that stops being fun. Yeah.

Which has prized me nuts. We're on to the next thing. In in in business or with my friends. I'm like alpha, right. And then I get with the girl and I'm still the alpha guy.

But the problem is when it's over.

All of my courage goes out the window. And and and and and it's funny too because. I'm so like I'm generally fair, right. So it's like if I'm going to leave somebody. I feel bad.

So like, you know. You give somebody a golden parachute. So they're okay for a year. Okay. So are you we are you a people pleaser?

No. Okay. Absolutely. You didn't come. You didn't strike me as one.

But you know, most ADHDers are. I guess I shouldn't say most.

“But if you're sleeping with somebody and you've been sleeping with them.”

You've been sleeping with them for a year. Right. It's like when if you're if you're not feeling it anymore. And she is it's hard enough for her to separate. I don't want her to have to figure out the whole money and survival thing.

That's or shit. Right. And that's why I do it. It's not the people, please. It's just decent.

For how long? A year. A year. A year. Here's your runway.

Listen. Long time. I know. I know. I know.

You're giving me a little bit of people pleasing in there. No, no, no. There's no people pleasing. It's it's it's knowing the room. Anybody who could be with me for a year deserves a year.

Right. Okay. Right. If you break it, you bought it. That's just the way this shit works.

Okay. She gave you years as she earned a year. That's right. And then at the year mark, you're out. Well, not listen. I don't think I've ever been with anybody for just a year.

Absolutely. But like I was dating a girl who I absolutely was crazy for. Right.

And we had the best first year you can have.

Then I did something stupid. Okay. And never forgive me. Never. Right.

And it wasn't like I was cheating or anything like that.

My ex called me back with two small children and told me to get my ass home.

Okay. I had to go. Okay. And she was just like, you left me. Right. And so that, you know, I felt bad.

Right. And we stuck in there a long time. But she was an ADHD. Okay. She didn't have RSD.

Um. With RSD. And when you're the only one with RSD. And that person's normal and she's learning what you do. And what you don't do and she's learning you.

Right. Because she gives a shit. Right. And then after a while, man, you just beat these people down. And it's not fair.

It just isn't fair. I'm just too much. I don't know, man.

I don't know why I'm like that.

I don't. Why are people like this? I don't know. But I like to think that when we learn how to tame it, it really is a huge advantage.

Yeah. I love it. And a huge happiness bump. Yes. Because the only because when you're in this RSD.

Okay. You're like a hostage. That's true. That's a good word for it. It does feel like you're a hostage.

Now, I mentioned earlier because a lot of people will say they experience it almost as though it's an internal wound. I literally felt like I was being clawed from the inside out. I don't know. Can you explain you that to me?

Well, it was just so painful. So like maybe I'd have a breakup or something like that. And I felt like I couldn't escape it.

“I mean, I remember almost embarrassing, but I'm never embarrassed.”

I would lie on my bed with a pillow. And I would just hold it trying to make this internal pain going away. And I go away. And I remember kind of rocking back and forth on my bed. Nothing would work.

It wouldn't matter what I would do. It just is pain internally. Like I was being ripped apart. It would not go away. And the other thing I want to mention is that you compound RSD with any kind of real abandonment

in your life or real trauma. Forget it. Just compounds it. And that was me. Yeah.

So you're abandoning it. So well, my parents were divorced. And yeah, there was a lot there. I was on my, I left home when I was 15. There's a whole story there.

So, you know, and same thing. It's like I'm going to show everybody. But so what that you think that you're okay. Here's the thing. You, this is where my coaching really shines with my clients.

Because most people before they work on themselves, they think I'm over this thing. I don't care. I've forgiven or I've forgotten about it. But then actually it continuously shows up in your life and your relationships and your breakups and not getting the job promotion.

It's like it all comes to the surface again. Because you haven't really completely worked through it.

“And that's what was happening in my relationships.”

I think I had some abandonment issues. I'm sure I have some daddy issues. So I'm functioning what I think is great. You know, I'm out. I'm working.

I'm successful. I'm doing my thing. And then I, someone breaks up with me. And I can't handle it. That's the rejection and the abandonment is so intense.

I can't function. I can't process through it. I'm just not lovable. Here. And then ADHD is gather evidence.

See, I knew they would leave. See, I knew this would happen. Because that's what we, that's our internal dialogue already. I'm not lovable.

This always happens to me.

I'm not good enough. See, see, see. There's not a single ADHD client that I've had. Whether they're eight or 80 that doesn't need work on their self-esteem and self-confidence. It's part of our--

I don't think that would happen. I think that would happen. What happened to you at 15? Well, my parents were divorced just before I turned seven. And it was a messy divorce.

And I missed my father. And I didn't understand. And my mom didn't handle it well. And so there was just a lot of commentary that was damaging. I wasn't able to see him very often.

And I was in an immense amount of pain. Some people can just kind of shake this off. Right.

“I remember still sometimes crying in bed at 18 years old over my parents' divorce.”

So my mother and I, we just didn't get along. She was remarried. I have my thoughts about that. I've forgiven all of that, but I really overwhelmed and think she handled it very well. She also had ADHD and been on to us and debilitating RSD.

And I left. I left.

“I enrolled myself in a different high school.”

I went out and got a job.

I lived with a friend. Then I worked two jobs. And I finished what I needed to do. I got into mortgages at age 17 and by 19 years old. I was a mortgage broker making six figures.

Because and it was sheer determination to prove to anyone who thought that I wasn't, you know, you hear things. By the way, I also got pregnant and had a child. Right when I turned 17. So I really have seven kids.

And what are you 34? I wish I was 50, but I most of my kids are adults now. So my oldest is 30. But no. I mean, it was sheer determination to prove to everybody.

It's that rivalry that you want to bet.

That competition competitive edge is the reason I was successful.

Because I was not going to not be successful. Because someone said I might not be. You know, a lot of people with ADHD are entrepreneurs. Yes. Right.

And that was my thing. Okay. Forget the not reading thing. Okay. I couldn't read until I was 18.

Okay. I mean, I could read. Okay. But I couldn't understand what I was reading. I couldn't comprehend anything.

Because my mind would wander. Okay. It's always wandered.

“And that's why whenever I get on a roll.”

Okay.

I don't, you know, I'll look at Kristen.

I'll be like, hey, no calls, no nothing. I don't care if places burning down. No roll killers today. Okay. And that can last the whole day.

I can put a great week together on occasion when I'm doing really good. And that week is like somebody else working six months. It light. It happens. And it's like 22 hours a day.

And it's like you forget to eat. And, you know, you're just rolling. And it's just ADHD is the best thing in the world for me. I've changed my life because, you know, I would have gotten a job. And, you know, been working for so many else.

And because I'm completely unemployable. Okay. No, no, no, no, no. That's not a joke. I wouldn't hire me.

Okay. So because I'm completely unemployable,

“I had to build something right with, you know,”

30 friends really. Okay. That came from my last place. And, you know, and do something for myself because I just like you. I didn't have a choice.

And you and I are a lot alike. We had the same thing going on. I didn't leave it 15. But I left it 17. Okay.

Because I had to. Art was a messy divorce, too, and he went and found another family. Okay. Stop paying the mortgage. And me and my three brothers, all three of us.

And my mother were homeless. Okay. And, you know, I mean, not homeless. We moved into my grandma's one bedroom apartment. Right.

And, you know, it was shocking to all of us. And, you know, then my grandfather passed. And then, you know, with the divorce and the house and the grandfather, that's what broke me. Right.

Yeah. It was too much. So we're a lot alike in that thing. The only difference between you and I that I can see in this whole conversation is the fact that you had a life with seven neurodevergent children.

And a husband with ADHD. And you're not only not driven insane, but you love your life. You're have to. Okay. And I've got everything in the world to be happy about.

And I put everything on hold because I guess this is an ADHD thing too. You correct me if I'm wrong. But I can only focus on one thing at a time.

I'll go, ah, ah. One thing at a time. Let's unpack this thing. One thing at a time. Clarity's power.

We're going to get this thing handled.

Okay. And that's how I do it. Is that an ADHD thing too? Well, yeah. I would even argue that it means you know yourself.

A lot of ADHDers don't understand themselves very well. So they're just spiraling and staying stuck. They don't know to stop someone and say one thing at a time. So they're trying to do all the things at once. I think that's actually it's a great sign that you understand your ADHD.

Because the inclination is to multitask and to just do everything at once where go big or go home, very impatient.

“But you have to be able to slow down and recognize what are your strengths and weaknesses”

so that you can get stuff done. That's right. Yeah.

It's not common that many ADHDers understand that.

The other thing I just wanted to point out when you were talking to is that one of the things that really sets me apart as a coach as far as I've been able to tell is that most ADHD coaches out there are talking about executive function deficits, and that's what they're working on in their coaching. I personally believe that everything starts at an executive, or I'm sorry, an emotional dysregulation level. So I think that when obviously that.

But nobody's talking about that. They're giving you, so like they're giving you day timers and planners and and and dinging bells and it's not working and everyone's saying what's wrong with me that it's not working. It's like because that's not the problem. That's the symptom.

The root cause is the emotional dysregulation. So what they're doing essentially is giving them tools to live life, but they're not dealing with the issue. Because they can't be consistent. Because because if you have a day timer for an ADHD person, it lets you know where you're supposed to be at the right time.

And it just puts your whole day together so you have a theme for the day.

“I'm getting bored while you're saying that right now, right?”

Like I can hardly talk about day timers.

Well, it just sounds so boring. And that's the problem for ADHDers. Is, did you know that boredom is one of the most heavy overwhelming emotions for an ADHDer? Yeah, because we can't sit still with it. And then we're like, what are we supposed to do now?

And then you feel guilty because you're not doing anything when you're just being general with yourself. Okay, so you can, you know, recharge and get back to what you're doing. Right. So we don't even want to talk about processes and day timers. And the idea that we're going to be consistent with them is overwhelming.

And that is all rooted in emotional dysregulation. You work on yourself, you heal your brain, you fix the problem. I like both. And, and because what they're teaching is life skills and what you're teaching is healing. Okay.

And, and a lot of people don't heal because they don't put in the work. Right. Well, and, and I teach the, the, the skills for executive function too, it's just that that's not where you start. And I'll tell you, that's where most adults want to start.

They'll come to me and say, I need to get organized. I'm going to lose my job. I need to do this and that and like, we're not going to start there. You start in your action line. What I call it, but you don't change your thinking, your belief system,

what you think you're capable of, all your identity. You don't change anything. Then we're just thinking, you're getting a basic foundation. That's right. Okay.

That makes sense. That makes them get done. But it fixes everything. That's what's so great. It's like it improves your relationships.

You can be in a romantic relationship. You can shine at work. You can be consistent. You can get your work done.

“But, but honestly, you know, you know this because you're in this world,”

but most ADHD is here that and it's usually, they believe me sometimes they don't. It's fascinating. Emotional dysregulation. No, I just need to be organized.

Yeah. It gives people comfortable. It makes people comfortable to be a master of time management. Mm-hmm. It just does.

For me, I need to have time management. Now, here's the difference. Okay. I've got the tools for living. I have not had the tools for healing.

Not this thing. All the other garbage I'm good with. I've dealt with all of it. Okay. But honestly, I did not know what RSD was until I saw your videos.

Okay.

I didn't know that, you know, I knew I took everything personally.

I knew that that was ridiculous. And then, you know, you lied to yourself and you say, okay, I'm just creating disrespect where none exists. So I can go out and beat the world now. Okay.

That just motivated me. Okay. I did it with sports. And I do it with this. Okay.

So, but it affects your happiness. Okay. It just does. But you want to know what? I don't know a whole lot of really successful people

who have a good work life balance. I just don't know. And it kind of hoses me.

“But, you know, I think every father wants to make certain”

that their kids are okay in the world when they're gone. Right? And so until I get that handled, right? It's like, what do you like, my grandma used to say? What are you going out to have a good time?

Right? That's all I hear in my head. Like, that's a bad thing. You know what I mean? It's like, yes.

Yeah. I don't love that conditioning. And the other thing that I've noticed is at least my conditioning growing up was that if I'm idle at all, look, I want to take a nap, which who has time for that. But I want to just take some time for me.

Then I'm being lazy. That I need to be doing this all the time. Or I'm being lazy and I'm not productive enough.

I'm always something better.

I could be doing with my time. I don't think that that's a very comfortable way to live.

“Well, I think it's very nice to do to myself.”

So I'm really trying to be aware of that and where it came from, so that I'm not doing that to my children. Yeah. I call it being gentle with yourself. Okay?

And I'm like, dude, you're just being gentle with yourself. Calm down. And relax for a minute. Okay? This place, okay, forces you to slow down.

Puerto Rico causes you to slow down. Malibu was slow. Hawaii is slower. This place is like on stock. It's a different deal.

It's a different deal. And talk about boredom. Okay? If you're four hours difference and you wake up at nine and it's five o'clock. In LA, that works on your ADHD, too.

Give me an example of how you and your husband work something out when you are feeling unloved. Well, I don't know if you caught earlier that he's actually on the spectrum. So he doesn't have ADHD. He has autism. And that was really a difficult thing.

And just so you know, this is really common. I probably have seven couples right now that I'm working with, where the man has autism. And the woman has ADHD. But he did not know he had autism. He either thought he had ADHD, which is a very common misdiagnosis.

Or he didn't know he was, you know, he was struggling with any diagnosis at all.

“And they actually, I think in the beginning it's a little bit shocking to hear, but then appreciate knowing,”

because what it really does is it highlights communication differences. So the reason that's important is because it's just we're so opposite in our communication. His first inclination is to completely shut down and ice me out when he recognizes any kind of threat at all. And also, if he hears me ask a question, try to get information, his brain, the autistic brain, senses a threat. So it's really hard to communicate anyway.

And then I would be overly emotional. I have to tell you, and I'm really, this is the truth. RSD is almost completely non-existent in my life. I can't think of the last time I've had an episode. I may be a couple times a year, and it's six around for 20 minutes, and nobody would know.

I mean, I would never claim that it goes away because ADHD doesn't go away.

It's always there. It could always come up, but it's just not, it's almost not there. So that's really great, but in the beginning of our marriage, that wasn't true. And so he would say something, especially being on the spectrum, it might be a little too blunt. Then something I would like to hear, and I would just blow up.

What does that supposed to mean? Why would you say that? And then I would just want to talk and talk and talk and talk, and he wouldn't talk at all. He had this amazing ability to just stare at the wall for two hours.

And, oh my gosh, nothing made me more mad than that. I'd rather him yell at me than just shut down and ice me out. It was so insulting.

I always joke that I learned to speak autism, but I had to learn what was going through his brain

and what our communication styles were.

“Because the RSD immediate reaction was to think, you don't love me.”

You're doing this on purpose. I mean, I wanted to get a divorce. Here's a real story. I'll tell my clients. I wanted to get a divorce over where he put his laundry in the laundry basket.

He would just kind of slowly undress to the shower. And I didn't like that. So I would tell him, please put your clothes in the hamper. But he just would forget. He wouldn't do it.

So then I bought him his own hamper. And this just turned into a whole thing. Sometimes I would do this in front of him. So he could see like, I'm doing it for you. Other times I'd kick it over to his side of the bed.

But I mean, I got so upset. My thoughts over this became, you don't love me. You don't respect me.

I should have never married you.

Because my RSD brain really believed. If you loved me, you would put that laundry in the hamper. When in reality, he just didn't care. I mean, he cared about me. And sometimes he would remember because he was scared of me,

which I hate that thought. But otherwise, he just would forget he's like, come from work. He could care less where the laundry went. And so once I realized, like, if it bothers me this much, I just put it in the hamper.

Or I can just kick it over to his side of the bed. But I would every little infraction like that. It was like, you don't love me. You, if you did, I would have all this shooting going on. If you love me, you would do this.

And you should do that. And I had to really check myself. I kept trying to change him. And didn't realize how much changing I could benefit from doing. So once I started looking internally, like, why am I so upset about this?

I would have to roll it back. And I, with my clients, I always come up with,

“you have to come up with at least three other truths.”

Once your brain's regulated, like if you're, I went out of ten. If you're over a five, your goal is to just get regulated under a five. So you can even work through your thoughts. So don't try and do it when you're worked up. But at that point, what was actually going on here?

Because my brain just jumps to this irrational, painful conclusion. But there's always things that are a lot more true than what my brain's making it mean. And as I practice this skill over and over, it became an automatic thing in my life. I like that you figured out that as soon as you work on your side of the street, the relationship gets better.

Okay, that is a mainstay. But this happened to me too.

My act, first of all, I've never met a woman.

Okay, that didn't want to change a man. I've never met one. Okay. And it only changed me, welcome to say. Okay.

But the truth is, you know, when a man and a woman get together, it's different. The guy doesn't know how to live. He's got a beer in the fridge, a four day old pizza.

He's got five forks. Okay, maybe one mug. I mean, he don't have shit. Okay. A woman comes into the marriage.

She's got a bunch of stuff. Okay. She knows how to live. She's not an idiot. Okay.

And so I didn't know how to live. And this woman, much like you, okay, speaks with authority. Okay. Now, I speak with authority.

But I know what I know, and I know what I don't know. So what I did was, when she was telling me what to do,

“my thought was, oh, this is how you do it.”

She's showing me the way. She showed me how to raise the kids. You know, I was hit all the time. I've never lifted a hand or raised my voice to my children. That was her.

She taught me that. Now, she'll leave all the doors on all the cabinets open. Okay. That drives me nuts. I've told her.

Babe, this is nonsense. I can't take it. Okay. Now, my daughter does it. Okay.

So it's like it drives me nuts. I'm knowingly, right? Like not aware that they're doing it. If for any reason other than like your husband, they don't care.

And I haven't made it a must like my ex made it to me. Like you made it to your, uh, made it to your man. So, um, yeah, that's my story and I'm sticking to it. Well, well, here's, here's what I learned. Just like, I'll, I'll share with you what my ah-ha moment was.

Was that I can make requests all day long.

We please come to bed when I come to bed.

We please put your laundry away. We please call me back when I text you. I need to talk to you. But when our emotional happiness gets tied up in weather and not they comply, that's when we have a problem.

“Because he's not always going to remember.”

He's, he's only doing it for me. And so I was making myself mad. And I, I, I tell my clients like, it doesn't matter if your child's on drugs start with you. If your husband's not giving you enough affection,

start with you. When I started to change myself and my energy, it was so fascinating to me how all of these things actually started to work themselves out. For my husband specifically,

he wasn't in fight or flight all the time with me. Anyone who's in a relationship and has expectations of their significant other, they think their relationships are reasonable. Like, well, of course, he should do these things.

We're on a relationship. I wouldn't want to be in a relationship if he didn't do these things. That would be my response. But then when he turned it on me,

I'm like, well, that's unreasonable. So he's like, I don't think it's unreasonable. So I realize that I, I don't want him doing that to me. I don't, and I didn't want him walking on eight shelves. I really had to do a lot of work.

I had to come to terms with the fact that just because it seems so reasonable to me, he didn't share those same sentiments. And so what do I want to do with that? Make requests, but don't get emotionally tied up

and whether or not he complies every time, just like, take care of myself. And once I was able to change the meaning, this has nothing to do with how much he loves me. This is just him after work,

not thinking, I don't totally get it. I think I would think about this.

“I think I could correct this easier than he is.”

But he feels that way about me and lots of other situations. So it's being a lot more flexible in the way that I experienced him and just life in general. I just want to say one thing, because you, I just want to correct one thing that you said.

Sure. If I heard it correctly, when your child starts using drugs, you don't work on you. Okay, we're at a time now.

Okay, these things are, all the drugs are laced with them. Okay, it's killing everybody. Okay, so the first thing you do when you're kid is using drugs and I'm care what drugs they're.

Okay, they go immediately into treatment.

And so I always tell people the same thing.

You can call us at Carrera Treatment Center. One out of 200 people gets to come to Carrera. Okay, we don't throw anybody away. We'll refer you out if we can't help you. We will.

“But that's why we're doing this podcast.”

And that's why it's called, we're out of time. I just couldn't do the thing every day because I start crying like a little bitch because it's too painful all the time. So I do it every second one or every third one. But I did this so that parents don't have to lose their children

because that's the most unnatural thing in the world. And it's not something that I could get over. And so I don't think it's something you can get over. Do you know my background? I don't know if you know this about me that I was divorced with six children.

So it was a single mother of six children for a long time because my ex-husband was an amazing husband and father. It became addicted to crystal meth and heroin. And my oldest son, my old, the reason I do this work. I was a coach for years working, especially with women. Women who were, you know, starting over.

I worked with adults. And at the same time, I almost lost two children to suicide. And my oldest son at the time was struggling. He moved him with his dad who he loved very much. And his dad is the one that encouraged him to drop out of school

and start doing drugs with him and introduce him to the drugs that he was doing. And no, no, I'm not kidding. And I was trying to save my son. And I took him to every therapist and counselor.

I could find he was never diagnosed correctly.

And I finally had resolved myself to the fact that I was going to lose him. So I completely agree with you. When I say start with you, what I meant was my approach wasn't working. And I would argue with him because he wouldn't listen to me. And I had to really humble myself and think about how I could reach my son.

And one thing I did recognize about myself in that moment is even though I loved him so much. And I would have done anything for him. So much of my reaction and the way I went about things was about me and my feelings. And so I mean, I'm someone who believes in prayer. I mean, I really humbled myself.

And I was finally able to reach my son and get him home. And I felt like coaching saved his life. It's the reason I shifted my niche and started working with teens. When I went down this rabbit hole of neurodivergence,

I was already a successful coach. I was trying to save my family.

“And that's when I also met Dr. William Dodson.”

He was the first one to ever start writing on RSD.

I went to his home. He's retired. I brought a camera crew. I interviewed him for four hours. He helped me with some of my clients.

I was learning everything I could to save my family. The comorbidity rate for ADHD is that there's a 60% likelihood. You'll have one comorbid condition. A 40% likelihood. You'll have a second.

My family struggles with OCD. My oldest son had autism in ADHD. He was only ever diagnosed with depression. And he was using drugs and nothing was helping him. Coaching. This coaching program was the first thing that really had an effect on him.

And that's when I immediately started working with teens. How is he? How is he? He has were religious people. We believe in God.

He had completely abandoned any faith. He didn't believe in anything. He is now a very active member in his church. He's thriving. He's doing amazing.

We think he's going to get married in the next year. He's been sober for years. And so a lot and a lot. I work with this a lot in my coaching business. Especially with teens.

They've been engaging in self harm for a couple of years. They're addicted to drugs. They're alcohol because ADHDers are three to four times more likely to be addicted to substances because they're constantly chasing dopamine. It's so if they're not treated.

You know, that's not really right. That is exactly right. But neurodiveration.

My access has been never got cleaned by the way.

I didn't mean to interrupt you. You know, don't be silly. You know, that was my mistake. I was going to ask how he was doing next. No, yeah.

He's never. And it's been. It's been tragic for my children. He was the most amazing father you've ever met in your life. Oh, I'm sorry.

“So that's really, but honestly, that's what brought me here.”

I never imagined. I didn't know my whole family was neurodivergent. I didn't. I didn't ever imagine that I would be working with people with ADHD. But on this mission, I mean, I'll interview experts from all over the world.

I'll meet with them. And there's so much misinformation. Dr. Dodson says 93% of psychiatrists today have no idea how to properly treat ADHD. And I find that to be mostly true in my business that people have so much misinformation. They've tried so many things.

Nothing's worked. So I really. That's not uncommon. And that's not surprising because I've been doing treatment. Okay.

For 20 years. Okay. I've given 10,000 people back to their families. Okay. And I didn't know what RSD was before I saw your video.

And then I was enamored with it. And I was like, I need this woman on my show. Okay. Thanks for coming on. I really appreciate it.

Well, you're welcome. I'm just thinking. I'm not ready to leave. But you know, it's true.

If I talk about RSD, there's so many people that have never heard of it.

And it's because none of us as I mentioned. Dr. Dodson was the first one to start writing about it. We didn't really know what this was five years ago. He just recognized that it mirrored a major mood disorder. And they were trying to figure out what it is.

Now, I will tell you that their best line of defense or when it comes to medication, whether people this isn't stimulant medication, whether you're medication, people are not. They found that Juan Fesine or clonidine, which is a blood pressure medication. Actually, is the best treatment for RSD. So some people do that.

Some people just do behavioral coaching, but just understanding what RSD is can have a significant difference in your life because now you can pause and say, I think this is what I'm experiencing. I think they just told me to get out of here. But I know I have RSD. So I'm just going to think about this for a little while before I react.

Just having that information, that knowledge can help people because the brain, it adapts so quickly. If you practice pausing, you can learn to pause forever in these situations where you used to be very reactive. That is exactly true.

I was taught for years. Don't press send when you're angry. Don't do it. Just don't press send. Right?

And it took me probably a decade to learn that. And you know how I learned it? No. Well, when you're in court, what a lawyer says is,

“can you read this please and you have to read one of your embarrassing emails?”

Right? In a court of law, that happens on occasion. Okay. That's how you learn. That's how you learn.

Can you please read this email?

What do you mean by ask clown? Okay. Right? It's indefensible, right? When you're calm down, sober, whatever you want to call it, I know, I get it.

So, and this is where all of that shame comes in.

“So, working with my clients on, I think it really is helpful.”

I'll get a lot of feedback that when they understand, Oh, this is my wiring. This isn't my personality. Because the ADHDers will combine the two. Like, this is how I am.

I'm not good at this thing. I'm not good at that thing. I have anger management issues. It's like, no, that's your wiring because you didn't ask for your wiring. It's there without your permission.

You just have to learn how to rewire it, how to manage it.

That really does help my clients to understand that.

Do, do any of your kids still live at home? Six of them still live at home. How old are they from what age to what age? The ones that are living at home, the oldest will be 23 this summer.

And then, and so most of them are adults. And then I have a daughter who just turned 16. Three married and I have a son who's turning nine this week. Do you know how lucky you are? I feel lucky.

You're the luckiest person alive.

“My, my kid drove to school today for her first time.”

Okay? Hmm. She'll be out of the house. She'll be going to college. And I will cry like a little bitch.

Okay? My son will do the same thing. Okay? Your kids are staying home with you. You get your children.

They don't go anywhere. You get to love on them every day. That's the greatest. It's the best. It's the best.

No, it's the best. People will make jokes. Like, hey, you got to kick them out. They got to, I'm like, I want to. Well, you know, they're like, they're adults, but, you know, they, they have the jobs.

They served missions for our church. We have every Sunday and many nights. Which church? I'm a member of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Where is it?

So LDS. Well, it's all over the world. No, no, no. I'm so happy with you. Oh, where am I?

I mean, I mean, Queen Creek Arizona. Wow. That's great. So I had a son, so my boys went out at the same time. One was in the Atlanta Georgia area for two years.

And the other one was downtown Philly for two years. And they were a dangerous part to town. So they did that for two years. They both been back for a little over a year. They both have good jobs.

My husband owns an HVAT company. So we got them into trades out here in Arizona. But, but they're so fun. So we're playing card games every night. And we're going miniature golfing and we're watching movies together.

True story. Yesterday morning out of the blue. ADHD emotional me. I just started crying thinking that they were going to move out soon. But I don't tell people that a lot because I know they're at the age.

Everyone else is going to college. And they're moving out of the house. And I'm so grateful that my kids are all home. I love being a mother. I'm incredibly busy with work.

But there's nothing better than motherhood. And if I hadn't gotten into fours, I probably would have had 12 kids. There's just been nothing better than raising my children. And even with all the hardships and all the things we've been through.

“There's hardly been married this time over nine years, right?”

11 years. Yeah. Well, the only reason I said it over nine years is because you're born again, Christian and you aren't getting knocked up with her. That's right.

We were married.

And I just married the most amazing man who had never been married.

Didn't have kids walked in and just became, I mean, God has a way. You know, if you really want something and you put that energy out there. And you live your life in a way that I think, you know, you try to be deserving of it.

I think we're blessed for that. You know, as long as we're continuing to put good in the world and living up to our potential. And that's been my experience. I mean, I know for a fact, we want our children to grow up and exercise their independence, right?

And flourish in the world. I get that. I want that. I'm just going to let that happen kicking and screaming. Because my kid, I always tell this to parents,

between two and six, tell me if I'm wrong, between two and six are the best ages for me. Okay. He was so beautiful and so precious. Do you ever look at the kids, baby pictures or toddler pictures

Do you ever cry when you see it?

Yes, all the time. All the time. All the time. Can I tell you something 80 each year or the only people I know that can take an experience that happened 10 years ago and think about it today and experience

“the exact same intensity of emotion today as they did 10 years ago?”

Exactly. Even more. Exactly. Yeah, I know. We're intense viewers and I love that about us.

It gets us in trouble sometimes. But I love that. I would rather be this way than not. This is made me an empath. Like, I can't take the suffering of others.

I just can't take it. So if I can fix it for fun and for free and it doesn't have to do a treatment, I mean anything. I just fix it for them. I can't not.

It's just too painful for me. When people suffer, I just can't do it. But it's a gift because it's the value you're putting into the world, right? What tips could you give parents to help their children with RSD? Well, with RSD, I think the first thing is having their child read up on it.

Because you probably recognize this. I mean, the average ADHD by age 10 has had heard over 20,000 corrective messages. So there's a lot of internalizing going on and they are smart and they're comparing themselves to everybody else. So by the time they're aware that they something's going on, they don't have a name for it.

They know something's wrong with me or why do I always do this or if somebody finds out what I'm really thinking,

they're not ever going to want to talk to me again. So just educating them about what RSD is, sit down and read over RSD. I mean, internet search or I can send you some resources. We'll give you information on what it is, what triggers it and then teach them. And this is good for parents too.

The most parents, if a child's disrespectful, you're going to call it out right there. You're not allowed to talk to me that way. Don't you dare slam that door, get back here. If your child is in the middle of an RSD episode, do not try to talk to them.

“If you want to give them a consequence for slamming a door or my daughter used to, she loved to say,”

I hate you. Do it later. They can't even hear you right now. They have to, you have to let the episode run its course. So let them go to their room. Hopefully you want to sit down and talk to them through these things,

have some boundaries and guidelines. For example, my daughter, we didn't know that one of my daughters had ADHD for a long time, because really her, for only impairing symptom that we can really recognize is her RSD, like a little bit of focus issues. And so she would come in here as she has several times before and she would ask for help with a writing assignment,

for example. And I would give her some feedback and then it's very unpredictable. Sometimes they can take the feedback, sometimes they can't. You don't know when it's going to show up.

But here's the thing, when it shows up, they lose complete control.

So to just expect them to be able to control their impulsivity, an ADHD or before their brain has fully matured, there are at least three years behind, an executive function age. So when you're dealing with a 15 year old and you're expecting them to act 15,

“but they've got the brain of a 12 year old.”

And I'd argue if it's a male is probably younger than that. When it comes to staying organized or controlling their impulses, you really are asking for the impossible. So we set some boundaries. You're not allowed to yell, I hate you, but you can leave the room.

And so she got better at that. She would still slam the door when she would have an episode, but she would always come out 20 or 30 minutes later. I'm so sorry, Mom. I don't know why I can't control that.

I'm working on it. If I were to yell at her, you get back over here. You don't slam that door. I know she has RSD. I know she's working on it.

I don't parent my children the same, either. I know what their strengths and weaknesses are. So sit down and talk about it. Come up with the game plan and then work with them in baby steps to learn to control. The other thing I want to mention, I have an eight year old.

When it comes to younger children, if you put them in time out, like let's say get up in your room. You're going to trigger their episode or it more than it already is. So my eight year old has massive meltdowns more than any of my other children did. He's always crying.

His feelings are hurt. Admittedly, I'm better at working with that than my husband. I have more patience. So I take over because my husband will many times when he gets impatient. Ask questions like, why are you acting like this?

So damaging. You know, we don't want to ask ADHDers. Why can't you do this? Why are you doing that? They don't actually know.

So with my son, I'll still put him in time out when he's having complete meltdowns. But I put him somewhere where he's not completely isolated from the family. I also ask him for a hug. And if he won't give me one, he's pushing me away because he's in the middle of his episode.

I really want a hug. And I'll be back in one minute to see if I can give you a hug. I continue to check in with him because he doesn't want to behave this way. He's experiencing rejection. And as soon as he comes down, he wants a hug.

He wants to be told he's love. So just keep in mind whether it's teenagers or younger children.

The more we send them away, isolate them or our critical of their reaction and behavior.

The more we're triggering an episode, we're making it worse. It has to run its course. So after the episode, you'll sit there and you'll say, Yeah. You know how much I love you.

Yes. You're everything to me. Listen, I know you're sorry. And you're as good as they come. Okay, you're the best person.

When you're in that, okay, you're just lost for a minute. So let's try to figure out before you go to a seven, eight or nine. Okay, how to reel that back in. So when you feel like your heart is starting to race, that's when you run and give mommy a hug.

Yes. I mean, I don't know if you do it that way, but that just seemed counterintuitive to me. If they're over a five, your only goal is to help them get under a five.

“You can have important conversations anytime.”

You can have it later tonight. You can have it tomorrow. It doesn't have to be dealt with right now. They can't even hear you because all they're experiencing is this excruciating internal pain and rejection.

So we got to take care of that before we can have real parenting time. Another thing that I'll teach parents when I'm working with families is get really good at, and this is just for anybody, not just ADHD, but get really good at connection time. Because what I have found to be true is that RSD episodes

they are more frequent and they last longer when you're going through a difficult phase of life. Parents are getting a divorce. They're having a hard time at school. And the more connected they are with loved ones,

they're just aren't, they're not coming as often. And it's easier to get through. Most parents will mix parenting time and connection time. And what I mean by that is here's a good example. They'll say, hey, they're they're teenage daughter, for example.

We never spend time together anymore.

Will you please please come with me on Saturday. We'll go get your favorite lunch and we'll go to your store and then I have to run these errands. So the teenager reluctantly says, yes, okay, I'll come. They haven't even gotten out of the neighborhood in the parent saying,

you know, now that they got them in the car, how come, you know, you're not going along with your brother lately. And I notice you're getting a D in math. And the teenager will say, and here I am never hanging out with them on the Saturday again.

They tricked me. So we want to get really good at separating the two. There's absolutely a need for parenting time. Of course.

“Parent your children, talk to them about important things.”

Give corrective direction. But let's not mix it with connection time. Connection time is having fun with your child. Play video games with them. Drive with them in the car.

Go get their favorite whatever drink. Let's sync with them. Don't bring parenting time in. They hate it. And they feel tricked.

It doesn't guarantee that they're going to tell you everything. The statistics show that only one in 10 teenagers really tell their parents what's going on in their mind. But what I have found to be true is that when it really matters when your child's cutting, for example, as mine was or there's something

really going on, they will come to you because you've gotten so good at connection time, which builds trust.

They don't see you as the parent that's just always nagging

what they're doing wrong. That's right. That's right. I'm really good at that. I'm really good at that.

I don't ever tell my kids what they're doing wrong. Mostly because my kids aren't doing anything wrong. I don't even understand. I don't even think they're my kids. You're asleep.

That's great, huh? They're that great. Yeah. And I'm afraid to get a DNA test because, you know, can you imagine if they're not?

If someone feels overwhelmed by ADHD, what are the first steps to getting help? Well, I mean, is this a plug for me?

“Because I've already told you I really believe that the coaching”

I do is some of the most beneficial treatment in health for ADHD. Let me tell you this because we've all been to their pissing counselors. It's not a knock against them.

I think there's fantastic counselors in their piss out there. I'm really big on my page. I don't believe in traditional therapy for ADHD. Because the teenagers I work with.

Because it's a feeling and it isn't an executive function thing. You're assuming that we don't know ADHD or is no. They just don't know how to get their brain engaged. It's a different language. So if they're not working with someone who has RSD,

who has been there before, who's learned to rewire their brain

effective.

“That was my experience with my children.”

It's my experience with almost all of my clients.

Behavioral coaching. So they understand their brain. So in my sessions, I'm taking this very specific emotional regulation model and I'm teaching it to them. And then I'm bringing in everything we know from research,

acronyms, everything we know about the neurodivergent brain and blending that all together. They should not need to come here forever a few months. And they've got everything they need and they can manage themselves. And it doesn't matter if they're using the model

to overcome self harm. And usually it's ADHD induced anxiety and depression. Or they're just trying to learn how to make friends and improve their self confidence. It works.

They just need the right tools. I would argue that neurodivergent people are some of the most gifted people. Absolutely. Yes.

Yeah. My job. It's true. Sure is. All right.

You got anything else you want to say?

“What can I tell people where to find me?”

That's it. It's right there. Where can people learn more about your work and follow what you're doing? Well, you can go to my website.

I know my name's spelled weird. But it's JerrySouth.com. And I work with all-- I need to ask spell it because it's-- Oh, spell it.

Okay. It's JH-E-R-I-S-O-U-T-H.com. I want them to be able to see the video clips that I saw. What's your-- Your hands are gone on Instagram, yeah.

Sure. I'm pretty heavy on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube. So on Instagram, I'm Ms. JerrySouth, MS. JerrySouth. And then on Facebook and YouTube, I'm just JerrySouth.

And people can sign up for free content with me. You can do that from social media or on my website. On my website, I have lots of testimonials. I have a group cohort for adults where we focus on RSD, primarily, but we go over everything boundaries, healthy relationships,

executive function. And then I still work with teens as well. So you would have family sessions or work with the parents separately when you're working with a child to get these people doing what they should be doing, which is changing along with the child.

Yes, absolutely. So it usually comes in a package of sessions and then we each family's different. So if the parent child dynamic is a little bit toxic, the parents are a lot more involved and coming to the sessions together, if not, then I am just teaching them what I'm teaching the child,

because they need to be on board with what the child's learning. But as I said before, most ADHD children have an ADHD parent, and parents will usually pay to get their child's help before they'll get their own help. But it's important that they learn the same things that the child's learning, because when they're managed and they're regulated,

it just everything runs smoother at home. Absolutely.

“Do you know the only thing after I asked that question that came into my head was”

all the Karen parents that are going to be saying, "I'm not changing." I mean, you get that all the time, right? Well, and that's why the child is struggling. Yeah, let me tell you something.

When I first started doing, I was working with teens, and I ran a pilot program, because my son was struggling, and the women were saying, "We work with teens." And I thought, "No, my son hates me. I don't want to do that." And it was the first thing that helped him.

So I started doing these live three or four week sessions,

these groups, and I would always have a parent night,

and I would always have a parent night, and I would always have a parent night. And I would always have a parent night, and I would always have two or three kids in the class that were struggling more than all of the other kids.

I could always call which parents weren't going to show up to parent night. And I was always right, without fail. These are the kids that are struggling. These are the parents that will have an excuse, and they won't come to parent night.

And they didn't. And parent night was reviewing everything they'd been learning. Where the strengths are, weaknesses then, I would offer a parent session. They were the only ones that didn't come.

But you see a pattern here, when parents come to me and they say, "I know I need to learn to. I probably need to make some big changes. I know I'm doing my best,

but I'm probably doing everything wrong. I love it when parents say that, because it shows humility. I will do whatever it takes to fix this. Instead of here, fix my child."

Well, they're the problem. To be of service, to getting their children well. And they're not above changing themselves. Who here doesn't, I've done so much work on myself, and I'm not done.

Who doesn't benefit from working on themselves,

No, that's the meaning of life.

If you get to find out who you are, and to be your best self,

“and then to leave this place better than you found it.”

There's nothing to get.

There's only, there's only to give.

Right? I appreciate your time today.

“I think you've created this little niche for yourself,”

which is far more prevalent than people are aware of,

and they have no idea whatsoever how to get started. See you next Tuesday. There it is. We're out of time. Please subscribe on YouTube.

“Click the thumbs up and leave a comment.”

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