The Goldin Touch: Building an Auction House Empire with Ken Goldin

Most of my competitors said it's not going to get a bid. It'll tawny bulb for a point four million dollars

“Welcome to the collector nation podcast here on the collector nation network”

Whether you're chasing grails or calling gloves Take you inside the hobby Here's your host Ryan all for Some people sell cards some people build platforms and a very small group of people actually move Markets today's guest has been at the center of some of the biggest moments this hobby has ever seen

Through gold noxions, he's up redefined what elite collectibles are worth and more importantly who's paying attention With king of collectibles the golden touch he didn't just showcase the hobby. He expanded the audience But what I respect most is this he understands that value is not Accidental it's timing it's positioning it's psychology in this discipline. So today

“Wanna go on beyond those headlines and I want to get into how he thinks about leverage market cycles ego risk and where this industry is actually headed”

Ken welcome to collector nation glad to be here, Ryan. Thank you for having me. Hey, man Respect dude. Hey, who would have thought collectibles and it would show up on netflix Certainly not me when I was a 12-year-old nerd sorting out my cards in my basement It's brought back a lot of nostalgia for me. I I got I four boys that got back into it two years ago And I had everything on the shelf from when I collected I you know had not even brought it out of the closet

The boys had never really shown interest in it and they did and two years later

I've got a show in the hobby. I got a store and I am needy been it, but it's been Helped and aided by the work you've done and in bringing a wear more awareness to the space and knowledge quite frankly Thank you, I'm I'm glad my the biggest thing when I started golden, you know is because I've been the business for years

“And I looked at the landscape of the industry and I said”

Everybody who is already a serious collector They're gonna they're gonna go to my website. I can't say golden dot com at that time It was golden options dot com we didn't have we didn't have the domain I said they're gonna find me what I really want to do is go to people who are the sports fans the casual buy or Somebody who goes into target Walmart buys a box for their kids and and and that's it

And doesn't even go to card stores. I said I want to reach those people I want to reach mainstream America and that's really What I tried to do since I started golden in 2012 is bring new people into the hobby and expand, you know the pie Hopefully a lot for myself, but everyone has a result for everybody hey, man It's smart business. I've done marketing for 25 years for certain largest brands in the world and you know what I'd call that can

That's called there's something called BDI and CDI BDI is brand Development you want to elevate your brand, but your brand only matters when you elevate the category You're elevated the category and your brand has come on long with it So it's been too dual pass is what I would define that as

You are a category defined or here you are I mean I had it's It's been interesting watching kind of the reaction to the show I want to get into that but I do want to start with this can you know we see the show We see everything that you're doing What's one thing maybe serious collectors consistently miss understand about can golden

I would say the majority of people who have a big misunderstanding Think that I am a And I am a businessman, but they think that I am a business man first or that I am in this for The money it's a money grab it's an opportunity because there have been so many people especially since 2019 that have come into the business and you know as you know

There's big money, but where people have to realize is I was doing this buying and selling cards Before there were written price guides before the internet Before eBay was in existence

Okay, before cell phones so I have been doing this my entire life and I have never

Made any money outside of the collectibles industry and it started for me as a passion

Acquiring collections keeping what I wanted and then selling off the rest So that's the really the big thing is people who do not know I say oh so this guy is some rich business man You know some hot shot came into the industry Solid money pot and then built a big business no that's that's not how it was this the business kind of You know the world kind of came to me with something I had been doing literally since the 1970s

through OG so what I'd call that and look and yeah, I had to be honest I when I only knew you peripherally and didn't start studying a little bit more I thought that exact thing I was like this guy is just a shrewd bad-ass business dude They would probably and I still think you probably be successful in any business with you You're your smarts intelligence and sort of business savvy, but I I was hey

“Raise my hand you nailed it that was what I thought so I'm sure others do you probably you have to get that a lot”

I do I definitely get a little lot and um, you know, it's fine and you know look the difference is You know My wife's the doctor okay, and I'll make a generalization Sorry for the doctors, but a lot of doctors are really intelligent people what they do medicine But they may not be good businessmen. Okay, there are a lot of people that have a skill and they're very good at that skill

But it may not develop to something else

You know I I have always been a marketer. I've always been a great business person and you know the fact

My business happens to be a collectible business and there's there are a lot of other auction houses that were around in 2012 that were doing five million a year 10 million a year 30 million a year I was probably when I started you know golden we were probably 250th in sales and then we gradually climbed up the charts until 2019 we were number two and then we over to a

Heritage is number one that is that's business skill that's marketing that's hard work and that's understanding the market and you and your customer and Honestly a real Passion for the business and you know a drive to be the best

Yeah, I mean and look you understood the the the the most important thing which is

Attention matters and attention is currency I look at most auction houses and I'm kind of like But what you realize is attention like mass attention Leveraging media leveraging personalities leveraging the people in the space and I mean

“Again, I think it shows your marketing chops as much as anything but”

Was that light bulb moment for you because obviously There's a lot of things and collectibles that are out in the storytelling moments and Look, you got autographs and stuff from that that drives attention anyway But there was something or some moment. I don't know That clicked for you with mainstream media being an avenue and you know the the friends you've made and kind of

Putting that out there and leveraging that into awareness Sure, I mean my Prior to forming gold noxions and you know a lump some people may know I I was the creator of classic trading cards The creator of the classic draft picks

For sports, you know the first for killing you a card first Kobe Brian card

“I also was the same individual who signed all these legends like Jodamazio and Mickey Man on the hominally”

Ken Griffey Jr Wayne Gretzky Montana Cal Rip getting all in Ryan everybody really and Put them on on TV. I sat on You know pubucing network next to Mickey Manel. You know, I sat you know on you know AKSN next to Joe Mines Hannah. So

I back in literally in my 20s had the idea of selling sports cards and sports collectibles To the mainstream and it's funny all of what's going on now with you know with the eBay lives and the whatnot And all the streamers it's to me. It's like reminding me. Hey, that's that's you know What what I did in the 80s and 90s, you know, selling on your JVC and HSN Except there were no that we weren't breaking back then, but so I went into the business

with a Very acute knowledge of not only the trading card industry, but a significant number of athlete relationships And a lot of experience of getting comfortable in front of a camera being able to talk to a camera

And you know that's when some of the auction houses were getting in trouble. They were getting in trouble with you know

“bidding they were getting in trouble with you know selling fake items bad authentication”

And I said if I establish an auction house where you know first of all you know we guarantee everything we sell

we can nobody did everybody had in their book, you know 20 page disclaimer and you know everything is sold as is no warranty is no No representation and I'm like screw that. I'm like we're gonna give every even autograph And then it still be a catalog like this that they sold a game used item It said your receipt is your letter of authenticity. We're the experts and I'm like no

I want you know I want to get and I want to get something from the athlete. I want to get something from the team I want to get some photo match, you know, so You know all of our cards we said we're gonna use the major third party graders all the autographs We won the use you know authenticate you know proper authenticators and same for game use as well as player collections

And I said here's what I want to do you know I obviously been in business for many years

I didn't go into the business broke if even starting golden so I had money But I had actuality I started with a hundred thousand dollars and I said I'm really gonna take you know the Jeff Basel is the approach to business and what I'm gonna do is My first couple years. I'm going to know that I'm going to lose money and I'm going to try a bunch of stuff That I don't think had ever been done in the industry and I'm gonna throw it against the wall and see what's stuck

So we went out and I tried to find the highest media attention items that I can get and I flew out to Las Vegas. I saw my friend Pete Rose, and I said Pete I'm starting an auction house I said when you got me goes out crap, you know, I've sold almost everything

“I said he goes, but there is something I think he can get, you know”

I just sold this guy my management contract from baseball So he put me in touch with the guy who bought it and we got it for the first auction and at the time Darren Revell was working for ESPN so he came to the office. There was a big big publicity and you know a real dog and pony show about the auction and making it special And we got a lot of publicity we generated it didn't sell because I had a reserve didn't sell that didn't matter because

I got a lot of eyeballs. I got a lot of registrations We did $800,000 in our you know first auction everything sold tremendously There was a hurricane in the middle of it. So I stopped the auction. I was hurricane hurricane Sandy and we said okay I donated like $50,000 worth of merchandise that I had and we auctioned it off to the red cross and just generated a lot of

publicity and I just tried a lot of things I did a deal with DuPont registry. You don't want? They sell really expensive cars so people with money I figured go there. I did a deal with the robbery port I did a 10-page insert into the robbery port in 2013 with almost no revenue almost no revenue Going but I want people to know about gold. So I did everything I could in the first two years of business To gather a large audience and I think that that user base that I established

Whereas everybody else's was stale mine was was brand new they were newly energized people A lot of it was becoming international because of all the media and it was a lot of new money that wanted to spend money collectibles and that business approach of being willing to spend money being willing to go out and lose money and say I don't care how much I lose I want to build market share

“Until I'm in a position to really compete that's what set golden up for and you know the future where it is today”

That's called branding building brand over time and like Sometimes the product isn't the product and the product is the marketing and you seem to learn that A lot of you don't know that because it's just it's hard to because look I'm an entrepreneur I've been an entrepreneur for 10 years You know you got to pay the bills you got to do things you got pressure to want to be successful and make profit

But sometimes in those early stages you can kind of sabotage that for the law you know Just play in the short game since like you understood the long game that was involved in building the golden brand No, definitely I mean look what I started the business I said to my wife, you know if I can build this up to a

You know a 10 million dollar year business. You know again. I didn't know how stressful the business would be

If I can build this up to a 10 million dollar year business, you know I can do this comfortably for the rest of my life stress free and I'd be happy with the 10 million dollar Your business. I didn't know you know I'd be pushing half a billion, but

“You know that that's you know that that's how how good business is good marketing and good industry is”

You know take hold. Yeah, I can shift things to like deal making and things like that

So when a million dollar car lands on your desk was the first things

The you evaluate sure. So is this something we have on consumers? Is this something we want to get? Maybe it just land it lands in your look, can I know everything we just talked about builds towards things landing in your lap sometime I sure you know a call someone walks in the door a friend of a friend You know you know a million dollar item or card lands there you know. Okay. What are you what do we evaluate Sure, so first of all I'm trying to you know when I look I'll look at the card and say hey

Who is this going to appeal to you first of all is is it is it sports or non sports? Okay, and then let's say it sports Is it vintage or is it modern and then when I determine what it is and let's say I'll because there is obviously a

difference in the way that I would market a

PSA 10 charizard or Pikachu illustrator versus a 52 top's mantle versus a T26 Wagner or versus a Cooper flag super factor for example, right? You know that they all they're all going to appeal to to different different people so I really need to look at the card find out why it's worth that much Who is collecting that? Is it is it something that is leaning more towards hey? I need to fill a spot in my collection because this is like

a holy piece like something like a Wagner or is this something hey

“I believe that Victor Rebagnama is going to win five MVP's and this”

Could turn a million dollars into a five million dollar card and then it's therefore my job to explain Not only who when be is but more importantly this particular card why this card is unique okay for example we've got a card right now in the golden 100 I'll use the example Victor Rebagnama it is his

Top's chrome super factor it is his first ever

NBA license autograph super factor and to me that makes it his most important card

It's the first top's chrome card that was issued since the 2008 2009 season it's autographed it got a high grade of an 8.5 a lot of these supers or you're even seeing people get him authenticated you know you'll just off so to me that is a key card and it's up to me to not only put together a package that explains why this card is important the on card autographed the history of top super

fractures you the the mystery surrounding cards like like the missing staff carry super factor and this is the first Wemby as well as the fact that as well as the fact of where are the people that will want to buy this card how do I reach them and then on behalf of my designer how do I get above expectations because comps are one thing well we want to do a golden is we want to drastically exceed comps on all of the high-end cards you know right now

we've got well this so we in our in our vintage auction we had a 52-manel SGC 7.5 sold at REA 8 months ago for 250,000 at the time of recording this it's 520,000

“hours on golden I think that is a result of our videos our photography our tremendous”

user base that is so much bigger than anybody else's but that's really when people come to us with the big items that's really what they want us to do is hey I'm looking to get several octaves above the comp and this is what you guys and the specialties you know special set you know you think about like what increases the value of something and it just dawned on the me you got PSA okay you grade it right and that can just the value but now

golden is a product the you layer on these collectables that's a multiplier is a lot of what you're describing because of the marketing and cashier that your brand will apply to a high-end collectible

something on gold bucket list buy something off gold but the ability is the importance is

“you know like when I'm dealing with a card like that or with let's say it's a jersey whatever it is”

that high figure you know I can't tell somebody I promise you it is going to sell for x price what I can't tell tell them is on the day the auction closes what I'm going to guarantee you is there will not be a single human being on the planet who might have possibly been interested in this card and has the money to buy it that will not know it's on golden dot com right now and it's closing tonight and and that's that's that's all you can do that's all you can do and that's a

bigger problem people realize because a lot of times it's like just people being aware it's something is available but when you kind of reach the depths and the width that you guys do at the level that you do I mean you're turning every coin you're hitting every target you know that if this is a Facebook ad you know you've got every every eyeball that could be on it that would be interested check on and again it goes back to marketing prowess as much as anything I can and

talking with kin golden needs no no introduction I want to ask you this kin as I've come back into the hobby and you've got mainstream you know mainstream investors now coming in investment versus collecting you know even kids now you know that are at the shows they're running

around and it's like we're flipping you know it's always been that way that's not new I didn't

some of that when I was young but where's the line drawn between the collector versus the investor and as others getting blurred or it just it seems like I don't know there's more investors than

“there are collectors well I think that you know first of all the short answer is that there are”

tons of more collectors than there were investors I can tell you know I can tell you that another collector's turning into investors yeah it's so exciting but the the different the differences is there are very few in terms of percentage pure investors when I say pure investor

I mean somebody doesn't give a crap about what they buy they never take possession of it goes right

into a vault it's for say it's in limited holding period it's for sale the highest price immediately things like that they don't have any emotional attachment whether they buy soccer whether they buy baseball when they buy vintage when they buy modern when they buy Pokemon or when they buy a game used item does not matter because it's just an asset there are very few of those people most of the people who are investors do have a passion for it and they prefer to spend their money on

something that they like they know they feel they have a better understanding of then say the stock market better understanding of and modern art they feel that their knowledge can make some sort of a difference and in an impact and you know also if especially if it's if it's active athlete gives them a general rooting interest right you know like everybody who was a Drake mayholder was certainly praying for the Patriots in the Super Bowl right yeah we were rooting for the

Patriots too only because you know we're going to tell more of his current than we are our same their own yeah exactly all those silver prisms but but how far is that dropped by the way

“since this year all I look I think I think that the I think the key with Drake may is the whole season”

was unexpected okay let's face it the whole season was unexpected it gives hope for the future it is another rising team and rising quarterback in the quarterback rich AFC to compete with the homes is in the islands of the world for a future dominance and you know he's very young I mean this is a second year so he's very very very young and you know the other thing is that you can't just count the fact that collectables 100% have become an alternative asset okay it is there there

are there are privately held funds now doing this there are public funds that are being formed to do this there are individuals that do it on their own I know I would not look I will say this

this is not how I would invest but I know people who have 25 million dollar collections and if they

because they have a mortgage in their house they don't have a ton of money in the bag but everything

“they have goes in the cards because you know they don't trust the dollar or they don't you know trust crypto”

you know I don't I don't I don't either sorry they don't trust the stock market they don't trust government bonds but this is what this is what they know so there are people that you know that that do that and that's their investment as well and obviously now you know unless you've you know have done it very very foolish you know those those people have done quite well over the past 35 20 years I would say for sure and I want to talk a little about where you see things going but

the Netflix show I'm going to ask sort of a question I know the answer to but I just want the audience to hear it you know it's show increased deal flow or just visibility the show increased deal flow tremendously um right now for example you know no look a lot of this is a lot of this is you know the acquisition by eBay the single sign on by eBay and things like that as well and access

“to their 140 million users but you'll really Netflix dropped in April of 2023 and I believe right”

now probably 80 percent of everyone who is a registered bitter at golden has joined since the show

came into fruition and we had I would say the largest organic user-based prior to that by far over anybody I mean you know and well into the six figures before that even happens so um but it definitely does there are a lot of people look I got the Otani ball because of the Netflix show okay and there's an example where people said I'm talking about cops and talking about outperforming expectations you know I started that ball five hundred thousand most of my competitors said

this is 50 50 ball the 50 50 ball um it's not getting a bit you know and I said no it's

it's just things going to go for over a million dollars trust me because I understood the power

“and importance of Otani in the marketing um of course four point four million dollars the”

damn thing went for but that that that came to me because of uh because the Netflix you look at the Pikachu illustrator obviously I would not have sold the Pikachu illustrator I would not have gotten the call for the shields Wagner um I would not have gotten the John Terry collection out of England he he I mean you'd be surprised so many people you know my Instagram right now got over four hundred four hundred thousand followers um for you know a guy from South Jersey

who plays with plays with cards um Instagram and everybody from all walks of life it's not just the individuals who find something it's not just the hobby people who DM me but you know John Terry you know Kelsey legend multiple you know it was five five Premier League championships champion league champion league championship um you know DM to me or an Instagram to introduce himself I want to show I'd like to talk to you about my collection I've got other athletes do that I have athletes in the NBA

that message me and tell me hey or you I see sometimes you've court-side seats at the uh at the six years you're going to be there this weekend I'm going to be in town um you know Tyre Talbert is one of those individuals as an example uh John is one of those individuals so it's it is a great vehicle and it really introduces the world to collectibles and I've so many people that tell me that they are into buying collectibles um cards and everything else because of the show I walked into

counting collectibles and Beverly Hills and you know they said I can't tell you can't how many people come in the store and say they're just walking down Beverly Hills you know and walking down our street and walk in and say oh I got into cards because I saw cane collectibles on Netflix I was watching this show um Patrick Betdive it had I don't know if it I don't know if he's famous world nationwide be certainly isn't up and down these coasts Morgan and Morgan injury law okay

John Morgan and John Morgan was being interviewed and he just brings up he goes how's watching this you know shown on Netflix about collectibles can collectibles and I got a lot of that stuff and Pat Pat goes uh Patrick goes Ken Golden and I go yeah Ken Golden Patrick goes yeah

people that watch it so it got so many people into it and really um it's been a big it's been a

“big boost to the entire industry I believe yeah and Ken I I have a phrase that I actually uh have”

trademarked working on it pays to be known yeah that's uh I think that's one of one in that a lot of ways me especially when you do it right I mean it sounds that there is such thing as negative publicity but uh so what's happening right now I mean how do you keep discipline you know during like peak hype cycles and hi it's how do you hold it all together when you know it's it's there's a lot of things that sort of impact this space I mean what you being one of

them being a bargaining room influencer but there's variables outside of your control that can

kind of hype things up hype things down how do you balance all that sure so first thing is

is you obviously have to be able to have control of what you can control and understand the things you can't control for example there are a toy like COVID COVID whole COVID thing that was you know to go back to our out and green green span you know during the stock market in you know part of the 80s bubble you know irrational exuberance okay it was irrational buying during that because we had junk that should not have gone up five or six times it went up

because people jumped into it who did not understand and they bought indiscriminately and they were buying stuff like 87 tops you know wax boxes for $250 you know just just stuffed it just you know like base cards for hundreds of dollars that we all knew we're gonna drop down to like 30 bucks okay

“but now what what the good thing about what's happened now is I think every I really do think”

everybody buying is significantly more educated and has significantly more knowledge than they did in 2020 and 2021 when they were buying the things that I see that go for what I say oh my god that is a stupid price it's not because I don't think the item itself is a great item I think it's just an overpay of a great item which may work out for the person in the long term I don't know but that's difference than a super price for any item that should not sell ever be at a premium the stuff

that's going crazy prices maybe people think they're high but they there's nobody going to say that these are not the creme that look creme these these are not the premium items here's things we can't control you know we can't control you know we can't control interest rates we can't control if you know I'm running an auction and Bitcoin goes from $120,000 down to $60,000 and some percentage you know not a lot but some percentage of the buyers typically modern typically

more TCG oriented than sports oriented happens to be you know holders of crypto and maybe they feel poorer as a result of that you know we also can't we also can't control you know private deals that are not transparent that post really really really big numbers that people look at and say hey is that real and you know my viewpoint is that you can't base an industry

“off of one comp or one sale and I think that's very important for people like let me let me give you an”

example I'm going to give you an example like gold okay we sold a first edition hokeymon box the box break of Logan Paul for about one what what slightly under $1.4 million so people can't

go out there and say that a first edition pokemon still boxes worth 1.4 million it was an experience

it was it's a box break with Logan Paul they were advertising basically advertising slot sold to a large youtube audience the people buying it were businesses and things like that so but somebody looking at that oh my god this thing went for 1.4 that is not a true company just what tell everybody you can use that is it is it possible in a right break that one these boxes can break again from millions dollars yeah it's possible in the right break and the right circumstances

with the right type of celebrities and things like that so that's really the big thing is that I look

looks like and a complete aberration either and this can be both ways it could be a great sale

it could be a shitty sale okay it could be a card that typically comps you know I'm going to use one that that is you know very I'll use give you two examples a modern in the non-monitor 52 top cement and 96 top top chrome Kobe refractor okay you can have a PSA10 Kobe refractor but and it's going to go for double what the next one will based on the aging of the chrome and based on the coloring of the chrome and it is the chrome you know it is the chrome greening and

things like that because PSA doesn't grain it based on that so the I appeal of one oh god that's that's well only went for $85,000 but then all of a sudden somebody else can have a sale it's 160 people wanting what's going on it's going up no it was a bad example same thing with a 52 man or you can have a 52 man on a five that's nice colors and they centered go for double what one that's also created a PSA5 but just doesn't have the I appeal and maybe it's more off center

so people when they're looking at these apps whether they're card ladder or whether it's money movers or whether it's any other app it's out there they have to dig behind the the surface data and say hey before I make my judgment is there something else I should take into consideration

but basically it's look look at what's going on and really for me a lot of it is

don't buy into the hype and the latest hot thing you know anybody I saw I saw a friend of my Jared Blasnik post something about all the blue boozy had in his warehouse because he thought

“it was gonna be the next big thing and I'm like dude don't you remember being babies I mean you”

know I could I could I could have called that one but it's really you know stuff that seems fattish something that seems that could be drastically affected by one incident those are the things to be to be wary of and you know look and you know everything cycles up and down we are absolutely and I don't want to call peat market because some people mean peat market is the top I don't mean peat market as the top because I don't want to call a top but we are definitely

in a hot market we're in a peat market but the base is continued to expand it doesn't mean

stuff can't go down 30 percent or 40 percent in a three or four month period and if stuff does

go down 30 or 40 percent it doesn't mean it's over what it means is it's a business cycle baseball's been around since the 1860s baseball cards have been around since the 1860s you know

“it's it's something I think it's gonna go on for you know as long as you know as long as this”

people on earth is gonna be collectibles yeah great it's built into the human uh condition whatever that is I think we are talk with Ken golden uh Ken you kind of answered this but I'm going to let you put a fine point on it it's kind of two parts you answered the second part but I think there's a lot of curiosity out there you hit we're kind of in a peat or not a peat but a high point right now with I mean both awareness interest and maybe prices I was gonna ask you like

are we in a long-term maturation phase or another setup cycle and then part two of that was if we did hit a kind of a downturn which segment hold strongest vintage high-end or modern sure so look my viewpoint is that we are in an expanding market okay and the reason where I can tell you

“weren't expanding market is you know I think that I I sit when I when I look at a keyboard”

when I look at a when I look at a screen I think I sit at an access point that is better than any other human beings access point in the entire industry when I say that I mean better than Michael Rubin of tops I mean better than that turner of PSA I mean better than everybody because at the same time I have the ability to see all the sales not each individual one but all the sales and trends for all the collectible categories that are going on on eBay because golden is any

day I can see how many new users I'm getting how many new bidders how many people are applying

for credit how many people are asking to have their bid limit raised how many bids a day we're getting how that compared to a week ago how that compared to a month ago how that compared to a year ago what my average ASP all this information that people would kill themselves to get I see it all the time and I walk around with my iPad and I'm looking at at it all the time so I can tell people from an educated point that the market is still expanding that there are people from other

countries that are getting into it that there are pockets around the world that never bought

you know never bought collectibles in general but certainly never bought cards that are now buying

“cards so we are in a market that is continuing to grow and I expect honestly with I expect”

with the fanatics impact you know and with you know more money being spent by the leagues in marketing I expect that we will continue to expand the collector base but expanding the collector base does not necessarily mean a smooth ride for prices it does not necessarily mean a guarantee of prices going up because there is a lot of fluff when we have repack businesses that can be selling multiple repack companies that are digital repack that can be doing $500 million a year

recycled recycling the cards you know over and over and over again the same graded cards and the buybacks and this and that and everything else like that there is certainly a lot of risk

“built into the market and people should understand that this is a market that is built on a”

significant amount of risk and they could be engaging business accordingly at some point certain

things will go down now my viewpoint always is whatever goes down the least is going to be both

the least speculative of everything as well as the longest running so to me it's an obvious answer to me I think that the most speculative and the market that has been on fire the most has been the TCG market okay especially Pokemon around the past two years all except anybody who's been dealing with business and now you have one piece that everyone's buying one piece because they want they want to will one piece into being the next Pokemon and they want to get those they're doing

what they do with frigging NFL draft pick quarterbacks they're they're projecting a guy to win three super balls when he before he's played a game in the NFL and they're pricing that into it and

“that's that's how people get burnt so that would be to me the the riskiest only because it's”

the newest and it's the most fluffed up over the past few years to me the safest is going to be vintage specifically the boring vintage baseball you know nobody is well I will tell everybody this nobody is going to lose money buying the key mail cards it's just it just it just doesn't happen it hasn't happened for 70 years hey go yeah my my my arm and killer brew will be maize and make you mannal sitting yeah six with and six the eight fence busters yeah this is a 1968 super stars

tops and then I brought this because you pulled two of them okay oh god yeah yeah yeah another great yeah I pulled it uh I pulled it right at him right out of my god I get you no excuse me that can as a thank you that's awesome dude oh yeah so vintage baseball so not of my basketball's no good the better basketball bit what basketball has is you know outside of our soccer basketball is the most international of all the sport thanks for tuning into the show

be sure to follow us on your go-to podcast platform and catch the full video episode over on youtube visit us at collector nation.com and follow Ryan on Instagram @Ryanolford now get out there and collect yours