Ashley St. Clair and Cameron Kasky: Leaving the MAGA Cult

There is cheese.

Now there is a package of meat. The best one can be a gratis test. The people who have been in cheese, cheese, cheese. Now to the gratis test. Time for 18 years. The coffee and the coffee and the coffee are ready. The volume is 4.5. Only the amount of sugar.

The amount of sugar and cheese is minus action. Hello and welcome to the board podcast. I'm your host Tim Miller. We have a double header for you today of former child activists. You use activists and politics. In segment two, it's my old buddy Cam Caskey off the campaign trail.

He's working on a bill in Congress, so I want to talk to him about.

But up first, she was a former right-wing influencer with TPUSA and others and a writer.

She's also the mother of one of the most children. It's actually St. Clair. And who apparently watches the Bull Work podcast. And you know, we're meeting now. This is our first meet. We've been DMing. How's it going, Ashley? It's going. My mother is also a big fan of the Bull Work podcast.

Yes, she is. So I appreciate you guys holding space for the more moderate. Where does she live? Where are you from? I don't actually know. She's in Colorado now. But we are not from Colorado, but a lot of my family is out there. Right, people. Yeah. Well, she's actually introducing Erica Kirk visiting the Air Force Academy.

Oh, alright. Okay. Well, much to get into an TPUSA. For people who don't know who are like, oh, my God.

I just heard that introduction. I've never heard Ashley St. Clair's name.

And we have viewers and listeners who are not on social media. You know, who are not following the influencer wars on the right. And so for those folks, I give us the first date.

“How did you emerge? What is your, what's your villain origin story?”

My, my villain origin story is I started really on campus with these campus groups, like young Americans for Liberty, as soon as I got into college, freshly 18. And then I got involved with turning point. And I was tweeting. And it just kind of snowballed from there. It was within a few months that I was invited to my first turning point.

I was meeting Charlie Kirk that I was doing events in Colorado. And then it just snowballed. It's snowballed. So where are we on campus? I was in Colorado University of Colorado in Colorado Springs. Okay. So it was a smaller campus.

And there was, you know, some appeal to the provocator nature of rolling a free speech ball around campus. And that a lib campus. Colorado, Colorado Springs, Colorado Springs. More conservative, but the campus was definitely more liberal. Like all of the heads of the philosophy department.

When I first came there, we're petitioning for Donald Trump to not speak on campus,

which, you know, in retrospect, they were probably correct about. But in that moment, I was like, this is philosophy. We're supposed to hold court for all opinions. So that was what appealed to you, kind of like contrarianism. And, you know, sticking your finger in the eye of the, you know, professors who wanted to tell you

“to follow various woke parties or was there something else that appealed to you about it?”

Yeah, it was, you know, you're the token conservative in the class, which I found engaging. Yeah, to some respect. But it was also your young and 18. You get out a lot of attention on social media by being provocative in some sense. So how did that start?

So you started posting and then TPSA would like, just from like a process standpoint. Because there's a lot of discussion about this, particularly on the left. And I went to the last, I didn't go this past year to America Fest, because given after trial is killed and everything that's just too much for me to take. But these are the year before I went to the turning point festival at the end of the year.

And I've been going every year. And I wrote like a, you know, pretty mean assessment of the substance of what I was hearing at the festival. Was it mean or accurate? accurate mean and accurate, you know, accurately mean about the just hateful bullshit that was kind

of in the stage.

“But before I did that, I started by just saying that you have to, you do have to give credit”

where did like there is no version of this on the left. It kind of emerged from nothing. I could emerge from the ether like the, you know, during the Obama era. And, and the Bush era when I was on campus like was just a very lefty space. The college Republicans were very torquy and I'm very minority part of the campus.

And he just, I changed that and like they brought a lot of people there. The festival like the crowd is huge. There are people that aren't particularly political who are young, who they had engaged. Like as far as just their mission was concerned, it was a success. Just looking at it was like a political organizing tool.

But one thing I don't have like visibility into is like,

Recruited ambassadors like you.

Like, what was that process like?

Was it organic or? So I was just kind of shit posting online on Twitter. And then Mike Sernovic actually found me and him and Jack The Sobeck started sharing my tweets, my Periscopes, my lives. And it just Twitter was very right for reply guy,

believing in a way. So you know, you're replying to AOC and replying to Elizabeth Warren. And it just kind of blows up in a way. It was up in a way that you don't expect because you're 18. And nobody's listening to you.

And suddenly you have 10,000, 40,000. You remember when you hit those milestones and envisioning that many people in a room, you're like, oh my goodness, all of these people are liking my things. They think I'm important. They think I'm smart.

And especially when you're just getting a sense of identity in your youth,

like freshly 18, that was formative for me.

“Like, were you monetizing it like we're in college?”

Not particularly, eventually I got into all cellity shirt or this or that. But I did really monetize it in the same mode that a lot of other people did. I worked behind the scenes. So I also worked on campaigns at 18 and door knocking and, you know, cleaning up the door knocking data and donor events.

That sort of thing. So primarily my mode of income was a bit different than most influencers. Normal jobs as opposed to doing a podcast. So I was looking at some of your early material. And it's a lot of nut picking, you know?

I mean, there's some nutty left. Okay, don't keep me wrong. But you know, it's a lot of like Ashley St. Clair confronts to range to leftist. You know, that's like a lot of what it was. So like when you were doing that, was it like how much of it were you like,

I really believe this stuff. How much of it was like WWE. You know, it's like talking about it. I think it's very circular to because you're, you're told that these things exist and that there's this caricature of the left and that they're all crazy and they're all deranged and they won't have the purple hair and whatever. And then when you see it, you're like, I found it.

It is real. Look, guys, it's real.

“So I think there's that that where it kind of feeds into itself.”

Where you wanted to find it to show everyone that it's real. And then there is, you know, you have veterans who are coming up to you saying, like, good job, pay triet. And that makes you feel a bit more important or like you're doing. You're giving thanks.

So real on the ground, soldier work. People are thanking you. Mostly men. I'm assuming. Yes.

Yes, older men. Yes. Older men with that. Yes. Thanks.

Yeah. So I could see how you would take that as like, wow. Like, I am doing important work. Actually. Yes.

Yes. And the work in question is tweeting. But also. And also from YouTube. Did some videos on man on the street.

Stuff. You know, I think I've put that away in my brain. That happened. I watched some of them. And some of the left is that we're young.

We're deranged. But I don't know what you were saying off camera. So anyway. I was very nice. In person.

So then you drop out of school. Yes. I drive the classic conundrum of the whole Charlie Kirk thing is he was college drop out also. And he's organizing on college campuses. And then now it's like all the red states want to build statues to him on college campuses.

And it's kind of like, see what you want to about Charlie. I like nice or otherwise. Like the school part of it wasn't really the part that was being fostered. Sort of. And I do have regrets that I repeated those talk.

In points that people shouldn't go to school because I'm back in school now. And I have two kids. So it's it's a lot more difficult to do after you have children. But there's also something that's very similar to when you're in a relationship. And the guy tells you, you know, quit your job and don't do this.

“But then if you want to leave, you don't have any mode to make income.”

You don't have the same ability. And I think that's really similar on the right where they tell these kids. You know, you don't need to do that. You can make money in right wing politics or start your own show or sell your own merch. But then if they leave that source of income is gone.

So it kind of keeps people within that cycle more than it would if they had a career or education outside of it. So that's what you did after you thought it was just full time influence or stuff. Yeah, so then during that part where you like actually making money like, you know, for through your on content or like rich people like subsidizing you. It was decent money, but again, I wasn't making much money from my content. I was just working behind the scenes.

So I worked on campaigns. I worked in fundraising. I worked in production doing Republican ads.

I always had a decent salary job that I was primarily making income from.

That is a thing out there.

Yes, very very wealthy donors and where you can't really track the money.

“There's a lot of dark money groups on the right as well.”

And influencer apparatuses where they will pay you just to put out messaging. And there's no rules right now to even put notification that it's an ad because it's just messaging. So there's there's a large portion of the right wing influencer space is paid in one way or another for. Whether it's opinions or pushing certain cabinet picks, they make money for all of it. Can I say, this is going to be the story of the 2028 campaign.

Right away, it's like paid influencers and AI influencers. And that is happening under the right is way ahead on that. But this is happening down the left too. I'm not sure if I'm going to say that. I'm not sure if I'm going to say that. I'm not sure if I'm going to say that. I'm not sure if I'm going to say that.

I'm not sure if I'm going to say that. I'm not sure if I'm going to say that.

“I'm not sure if I'm going to say that. I'm not sure if I'm going to say that.”

I'm not sure if I'm going to say that. I'm not sure if I'm going to say that. I'm not sure if I'm going to say that. I'm not sure if I'm going to say that. I'm not sure if I'm going to say that. I'm not sure if I'm going to say that. I'm not sure if I'm going to say that. I'm not sure if I'm going to say that. I'm not sure if I'm going to say that. I'm not sure if I'm going to say that.

I'm not sure if I'm going to say that. I'm not sure if I'm going to say that. I'm not sure if I'm going to say that. I'm not sure if I'm going to say that.

I'm not sure if I'm going to say that. I'm not sure if I'm going to say that.

“That's how I ended up meeting him. How much time did you all spend together during that period?”

There's a lot of discussion out there right now. I can tell you talking about Mark Levin's micro penis. I don't know anything about Mark Levin's penis. I can't compare and contrast. I can't compare and contrast. What is it? What is it like? Let's just put aside the politics. He's constantly tweeting. He's just this figure over here.

If you don't mind about this, it's kind of like he sleeps. He's tweeting all night.

He's very manic.

I understand how he what is it like to be in his orbit.

“When I first met him, I thought he was very interesting.”

Especially I was 23, 24 at the time and guys my age are not talking about Philosophy or Schopenhauer. He was talking about Schopenhauer? Yes. Two degrees. So finding someone who could speak about something and at the time you think this individual is a part of something

so much bigger than themselves and they're fighting the good fight. You know, that's very intoxicating to a young girl who does not have fully developed prefrontal cortex at the time. So I think there's been a difference in my view since I've developed that. And at some point during that you had to be like

I'm into deep on this thing. Yeah, you're kind of like I have girl-bossed way to close to the sun and you start recognizing things again. I can't speak too much about anything. Sure. Because there's probably four attorneys paid two grand an hour to watch this. But you see the red flags that you're like, "Uh-oh, I should probably protect myself."

And it's also there's red flags that you see that are not just personal relationship red flags.

But red flags where you're like, "This could harm a lot of people." This is a lot bigger than myself. These red flags are indicative of greater harm to a lot of people in the country. A lot of people in the world.

“So I think that was also an internal battle in my head where I'm like am I reading too much into this?”

Or is this genuinely dangerous? He is posting all night. He posted all of his post-server in my head. You didn't get to ghost any of them during your moments. There were a couple that came out of my mouth and he was laughing and then typing them down.

So he does have muses for some of his late night. I didn't really love grimes, I guess. I don't know her at all. But I liked her music and I liked her video about eating spaghetti. Do you guys have a support network?

No.

I wish the haram would unionize on a slave, but at this point.

But he's quite the union buster. I feel deeply for clar and grimes. But I do love her music as well. Okay. Maybe we can get them all together.

Grimes. She talks about joking now, I think. All right. Or a phrase. We've been talking about them.

Another gift for all occasions. And any person. Yes, sometimes it's hard to think about what you want to get somebody.

“If it's person you have to buy something for every year and how coming up on Mother's Day.”

Mother's Day is not far away. Can you believe that? It comes around every year. You have to come up with the Mother's Day gift. To challenge.

If you're like me, my Mother's birthday. It's like the same week as Mother's Day most years. Two gifts. Some years I fail. Sorry mom.

If that is an issue for you in your life, other be your mother, grandmother, aunt, cousin, co-worker, or a frames is great. Or frames offers free unlimited storage. You can add as many photos and videos as you want. You can pre-load the photos before it ships.

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I'm going to go to the next page. I'm going to go to the next page. I'm going to go to the next page. I'm going to go to the next page. I'm going to go to the next page.

I'm going to go to the next page. I'm going to go to the next page. I'm going to go to the next page. I'm going to go to the next page. I'm going to go to the right page.

I'm going to go to the next page. I'm going to go to the next page. I'm going to go to the next page. I'm going to go to the next page. I'm going to go to the next page.

I'm going to go to the next page. I'm going to go to the next page.

I'm going to go to the next page.

I'm going to go to the next page. I'm going to go to the next page. I'm going to go to the next page. I don't take them as seriously as they would like to be taken, which I think is helpful.

You're in law school now, right? I will be starting in the fall. Starting in the fall. Congrats. You can go to the brief yourself.

If I have to be in court for this long, I might as well make sure 18 of them are with ESQ after my name. I love that. One of your suits not related to your kid is about what is happening on X with regards to porn.

This is news also bringing into this morning. They're multiple additional lawsuits from teen girls who were. I guess they'd pictures of themselves in clothes, posted on social media and grock. Took off their clothes and made it seem like they were nude.

Pictures of them. You'd have it to you as well. I talk about what's happening with those suits and the status. So back in late December. Grock was unleashed onto the public with a new image,

generation manipulation feature in which it was able to undress women and children. And anybody really, but primarily women and children were targeted by this. And so myself.

I found countless photos of me undressed, bent over covered in white fluids. Yeah. And real life aspects of my life for in these photos as well. It had my real face.

It had my real kids items in the background. It had my home.

“And the only thing that was different was my clothes being removed or”

bent over or covered in whatever. So we're suing XA I now in New York for a variety of different issues. One is product liability because they shouldn't release this product up to the public. Chatual PT is not doing this.

I've been victimized by Chatual PT or Claude undressing me. And as you mentioned, now there's three teams suing in that suit. They cite that one of the girls, two of them are under 18. And one of them had their yearbook photo taken. And undressed and Grock undressed this minor happened to me as well.

And some of these photos, I was 14 years old and they undressed me. For everyone else, it needs to be stopped. But what I want people to understand is right now,

within our lawsuit against XA I first,

they tried saying that we are bound by the X terms of service. And that if we want to sue, we have to go to this one. Rinky dink court in bumblefuck, Texas. Where the only judge on Tesla stocks that didn't quite work. So now they're trying to hold me to the X terms of service.

“So if anybody has an X account, you need to know that they,”

you may be jeopardizing your chances at holding this company. Or any of it's affiliates accountable because this is the game that they play. I have not used X since. Explain why why would that jeopardize you? So they claim within there are very laborious terms of service on X.

They say that if you want to take action against X or any of it's affiliates, which could be Elon Musk himself. It could be Tesla. It could be SpaceX. Sure.

Who knows at this point, don't you? What have you? Your claims are limited to I believe $100. And you have to take it in the northern district of Texas. So use of this platform.

They are trying to claim that me even viewing the terms of service page is a sentient to the terms of service. And there's like eight Harvard trained attorneys trying to make this argument. So anyone who has an X account really needs to know what they're signing up for here.

“And then if they want to take action, one you should do it as a Jane Dow.”

And two, you should be deleting your count. Wow. And is this still hot? It's ongoing. Has Grok fixed this or people still being to my knowledge.

It's still happening. It's still happening, especially in the standalone grok app and website. They have not fixed these parameters to my knowledge. And they're still images of me circulating. But there's not really any good way for me to find every image that they have unless

First of all, I can't go in the platform because they're suing me for $75,000.

Minimum. But it's how do you even find them? There's other porn on X. And Elon is branding the grok as the AI that isn't going to be woke or whatever. And so it doesn't seem like it's an accident.

I guess this is hopefully something we've learned in your discovery. But it doesn't seem like an oversight situation. No, because they could have again around when Linda Yaccarina the former CEO of X resigned. She amidst within the 24 to 48 hours that she resigned. She was the victim of rape fantasy.

So as we'll cancel by grok and they didn't do anything. And this was just text based. So they were aware that these things were happening and they did nothing.

X AI has an issue because nobody really wanted to play with grok.

It was, you know, the onkit on the playground that nobody really wanted to hang out with.

Everyone else was surpassing X AI in terms of the AI race. And now all of a sudden during this funding round they have this this feature unleashed in which usage spikes. Astronomically.

“And within this scandal they raised I think it was $20 billion from their funding round as this was happening.”

With the collateral of women in children being undressed. We'll keep money in those stories that you said it's so is it now is there like a class now or these all happening individually. I believe there's a class action in California happening right now mine is I'm the only plaintiff because this was for us the most effective way to go about it because it was, you know, me personally is being defamed.

And I've been at the end of rather intense targeted harassment.

Targeted harassment on X for a variety of reasons, including the owner. That's fucking brutal and I appreciate that like it's just like on all this stuff you don't you don't have to be doing this you could have disappeared and. Taking that alone. So I appreciate that you're out there doing this. I want to talk a little bit more about your kind of evolution.

I went through this having been a Republican wrote about this a lot. People came into me and asked me to write a burn book. I'm sure you've gotten that request as well. I ended up writing like a half a burn book. I decided to, you know, as I was only going to do the burn book part.

If I talked about myself first and like my trajectory and my evolution and like what I thought I missed and.

Why I got wrapped up in it and like what could be learned from that. So I'm wondering like how you kind of feel now like looking back on that.

“I think it was very helpful for me to get off the internet for a while.”

There's a lot of echo chambers that everyone kind of ends up in there and your access to information and frankly lived reality. Is really important for having views outside of these things. Well, I was with the in Mac I certainly had doubts. There were moments of free thinking that I had, but you're so wrapped up in it and your your whole identity is this your whole source of income. Your career, your, you know, especially when you have kids you're like, what am I going to do if I blow up my life and attack these people who are not exactly stable.

But again, I got involved very young. It was this sense of belonging and then I dropped out of college and I was in it. But I think especially recently there's no way that you can watch what's happening and not say something.

“Because it's so egregious. I think there's a lot of people.”

There's some people within my own family who voted for Trump and said, what is happening? You know, we did not vote for this. We did not anticipate this and some people might call those who say those things, you know, stupid or, you know, we tried to warn you. But there was also a mass manipulation campaign going on and I don't think that should be downplayed. I think people are being really manipulated and deceived on social media as well. And as we know, there's more and more of these tech pros buying up our media platforms.

Because it's so valuable to hold your attention and hold the keys to perception. What of the administration so far? Like when you say what's happening is so egregious. Like what are some examples things that you find to be egregious? I think especially with ICE, I think what's happening with the economy with foreign policy that, you know, we're promised no new wars. And they are gleefully blowing up, capturing foreign leaders using our tax dollars and having these tech pros at the White House. The average everyday person has been left behind. You know, we're having people who cared about immigration and we have Trump gold cards and normal people are being rounded up and sent to all Salvador.

It's disgusting. We have American citizens being shot on the streets by ICE. And I'm not quite sure how even people that I knew can watch this and not think that this is going to come for them as well. As it relates to free speech, you have Brendan Carr threatening to revoke broadcasts or licensing over what people say. That's not what any of these people that I knew supposedly signed up for. We're supposed to care about free speech. We're supposed to care about the sovereign rights of citizens. And that to me has been very difficult to watch because I feel like I played a role in having that come to fruition.

I'm not quite sure the best way to help except, you know, speaking out now an...

I think some people would say particularly the immigration thing. I think it's interesting you started with that with ICE.

“Like, I don't know, the Trump first term had Steven Miller, those child separation. Isn't that kind of what people signed up for, at least in the ice part of it?”

I did not, you know, there's also behind the scenes, there's these assurances like that would never happen.

You know, of course, we're just going to get the criminals out and you heard Trump repeat this over and over again. We're just going after the criminals, which, you know, obviously is a very small percentage of the population of immigrants that are here. But also just the cruelty of it is really difficult to watch. When I was down at the border, you see that there's obviously a national security issue with you don't know who's coming through the border. I saw burned IDs. I saw buried IDs. I saw people who are very obviously fleeing some sort of criminality in other countries, but that again was such a small percentage, and it doesn't seem like they're getting any of those people out of here.

And I've always been very against the feds and law enforcement and authority in a way, but I can't understand why the Republicans think it's okay to say, well, you know, if you don't follow the law, you're going to get shot.

But I do suppose we were warned about that and be allowed what we were making fun of all those people.

“Yeah, when the leading shots are shooting starts, we have today. I think the first person to quit the administration in protest over one of these issues of the Iran War, Joe Kent.”

He posts this after much reflection. I just had to resign from a position as director of the National Counterterrorism Center effective today. I cannot in good conscious support the ongoing war in Iran. Iran posed no them net threat to our nation and it's clear that we started this war did a pressure from Israel and it's powerful American lobby. I don't know. I look at that. I'm kind of of two minds about it. I can the one hand, it's it's like, well. All the things you just listed like it is true. The Trump has betrayed it's based on a lot of things. So I think I'm foreign policy, most clearly.

The other hand, you look at Joe Kent and he's somebody who's like, done a lot of great for stuff and you see the Israel stuff in the statement, it's like, well. So I mark a statement kind of complicates all this. It's like, Mark, I'm kind of said that this was what happened. But I go to the other end. It's like is Joe Kent quitting because he's because, you know, if it's conspiracy theory view about Jews and it's like, I don't know how to assess that. So it's good that I guess some people are seeing that Trump has betrayed them.

“They're motivations for that might be suspect though. I don't know. What did you make of Joe Kent?”

Whatever his motivations are, I think there's a lot of people. I think it's more of a bipartisan issue on both the left and the right. This support for Israel at all cost and that we're going to get involved in any war. We're going to do whatever is in the best interest of Israel. While there's people in America who can't don't have health care, they don't have affordable housing. I think they're whether it was Israel or any other nation that we had a comparable relationship with to where, you know, the American people are being impacted by what this for a nation wants.

People are feeling that and they're not happy about it on both the left and the right. And there's there's going to be some intersecting just because there are fringe characters who correctly identify the issue. I don't know that it should be discarded, especially going into the midterms. We've talked before about my friends at one skin, how they really stand out as a skincare company and how they're doing the Lord's work to make my straight guy friends in Louisiana, not deteriorate at the pace that they had already been deteriorating and we appreciate them for that and it's not just hype.

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“I'll talk a little bit about how hard this is to do what you're doing and maybe to the lesser someone show can't doing.”

I was listening this weekend to Tim Dylan is a comedian. It's like sort of a nationalist comedian that's I think it dinner with JD fans got kind of sucked into that kind of world like a lot of managed fear guys did. He's very sympathetic to kind of the American first world view. And he was talking about the rally that Trump had and Kentucky and how sad it was and I want to play a little bit from that. I don't know what any of these people are getting out of it anymore. They elected this guy and then this guy is basically letting Jared Kushner and peeping at me. Oh, just carve out the Middle East do whatever the hell they want just make deals and and it's.

It's tough because I know it's really, really hard to admit you got you got got.

“It's really difficult to admit that almost no one can admit it's very hard to admit you've been taken advantage of by someone that you respected.”

By someone that you liked and respected this is actually very difficult thing to do it's easy to say you got scammed by some stranger. But someone that you trusted respected liked and a lot of these people here, you know, in the back of their head. They can admit it to themselves yet, but they feel like they've been taken advantage of this is not about them anymore. It's dawned on them because it's not really about us. That had to be kind of hard as was to that thinking about talking to you on Tuesday like how hard was that for you. It's difficult, but I also and hopeful that there's more humility within the right and the left for anyone who was wrong about certain issues because it's okay to be wrong.

We have this weird dichotomy and the internet where it's you have kind of this permanent fixture of identity and you're never allowed to change your opinion because you're always fixed to past versions of yourself. But it's actually a good thing to grow and say I was I was really wrong and I'm sorry and let's all try to have a clearer picture of what's happening right now. So I think Tim spun on they got got and they were deceived and none of this is anything that he campaigned on whether it's from the obscene files to Israel to you know the big beautiful ballroom this is all atrocious and it's the American people who are suffering.

Let me hear from people like do you hear from people that you knew from TBSA or Babylon be days or megadays like what what what do they think about all this. I do and there's people that have espoused to me that they they feel stuck. They know what's wrong and they feel stuck and I will tell you that the right has a big issue with what's fastering underneath in terms of the sentiment against women. There are a lot of women from the right to still keep in communication with me and they see what's happening and especially as it relates to the rhetoric against women on the right.

They're not just turning a blind eye to this and it's going to impact them whether in the midterms or you know 2028. They're waking up to the fact that they've also been had that they've been used as pawns within this French movement. How would you recommend people from the left or from that just broad anti-treat movement like talk to women like that at communicate with them and try to find common ground with them because I do think that. I assume the natural impulse of many listeners of myself does that is like oh oh oh you you're just waking up to the fact that the magma movement it's women are you it's like you got you know you're part of a cult for a man that was like it's actually assaulted multiple women and at three wives and called in the New York post to talk about how great is sex with his mistress was and it's like I talked about grabbing women by the pussy it's like you're just seeing this now and so that's the instinct.

But we want to put that instinct aside over here in the box for a second and think about like where are you coming ground what are ways to communicate that are useful.

“It is a cult and what you have to understand is in any abuse of relationship right your access to other people you're very isolated your access to information is cut off your access to people who might.”

have you know rational thoughts about what you're involved in you're cut off from that as well so what you have to understand is these people you know they're told it's fake news all of this is fake news the only thing you can trust is Twitter and truth social and for better words they actually believe that to an extent they believe that these.

A team to outlets are lying to them that nothing they put out can be true so ...

Little by little showing them that they're still they're still space for them.

It's not easy to do what I did and apologize for all of the things that I said and really you know I'm on Matt Bernstein's podcast and all of these words that I had said which were incredibly hurtful.

“I'm on the screen and read back to you and that's really hard to do but I think as long as they're space for these people to come back and say hey we understand that this is a whole new.”

World in social media and the internet and these cults can grab you in on your phone and nobody can ever see again I think that's the best way to do it is to be compassionate to some of these people even if they're not being very compassionate themselves right now.

Maybe this is your job I listen to that podcast that you're on with Matt is a nice guy let really left guy and the lot of the conversation was about like.

How you could make a man's with the trans community and the LGBT community and all this I don't know. How much value is there to have a new put on your hair shirt and put up the put up the rainbow flag it's fine you can do all that it's a gay I can be like it's fine I don't know I felt kind of feel like your pen it should be talking to the trap girls. Yeah and communicating to them because they're not going to listen to Matt Bernstein like they're not going to listen to Matt Bernstein then probably not going to listen to me and maybe they would listen to you.

“I think it's also very important to hold that space where you do hold accountability because what I've realized leaving is that to ignore the issues from these.”

You know the communities that the woke fixated on a for a while these issues come back and affect all of us okay the way in which the trans community is scapegoated that impacts women and everyone else as well the way in which. BLM was scapegoated and demonized they were warning about a lot of the issues that we're now facing with ice right now and so I do think it's also important to say hey here's what I missed and here's why we should listen to those individuals and if you don't it's going to come for you next.

I think it's really important to hold space for how very small percentages of the population are used by political parties. I guess I think that space is being held for those communities though I think your job to go down to the fucking TPSA events and and go up to the girls and be like are you sure you want to be. You sure you sure you sure you sure you sure that you want to do this I think that's a better use of your skills one man's opinion.

“Yeah yeah I think it's important but it's also the women inside the White House I don't know and the women inside this administration.”

Some of the women within the White House hold a degree of psychopathy that I'm not sure there's anything I could say that would would be helpful. And obviously at times I've locked empathy when in being in politics and the things I've said but the women within the White House really scare me. Yeah so you sort of go through this transformation give this personal crisis to kind of precipitate that some of the views from your time in that world you have to maintain right or have to still some residents with you or do you look back at it and think that God I was just caught up in this and it was all lie or are there's some things I don't know I was like peeking at your Twitter and it seemed like right before you left X and I felt like there were still.

You still have some views you're you have some USA ID views that I disagree with your sharing I don't know do you have other other mega elements that you think still resonate with you.

I would say no because you know my first instinct is to say yes because there's constitutional values that I hope but that's not maga that's just American.

So what are some of those though I don't know free speech especially. Especially with AI I think we're really there's a lot of people who are going to be forgotten as like our general consciousness is aggregated and stolen from us but there's also. People will say I made such a pivot because you know XYZ or I'm grifting but they don't consider what it's like to see the underbelly of such power and how close I saw it and saw such immense wealth and such immense power that it really kind of radicalizes you the other way.

You know to to be in the rooms with the wealthiest people in the world and they're talking about socialism being handouts is as a normal person whose mom didn't want to go to the hospital when she was having a heart attack because she wasn't in church.

That's kind of flips a switch and you know where you're like oh you guys all ...

I saw something very ugly when you see that they're evil it's hard to say well I do have to hand it to him on the Jones Act you know and like I deal with this as well but how I'm maybe looking at from this perspective rather than complimenting them. If you're talking to Democrats just practically speaking somebody who like lived in that world and who you know had friends there like is there something that Democrats are doing that is blocking them from being able to reach those people or their things that you wish that they would do.

Yeah they are incredibly lukewarm like the Democratic party is very lukewarm I don't think they're speaking to any real issues that people are facing people need health care people need housing.

They need a lot more than what the the Democrat party is saying that they support now and Gavin Newsom going out and saying. We went too far with the trans stuff why even address it at all this is a non issue I do believe like old woke instead now but it's these very lukewarm candidates who aren't offering accountability for the corporations and big tack and all of these people and entities that have.

“And I think that's that's really harmful I think if the Democrats want some sort of future they do need to to take a hard look and start offering more social programs in conjunction with really holding these corporations accountable.”

I'll go out a little bit more I'm I'm giving you I don't know where you Catholic would you go up what was your. I said I don't know maybe pretty sick Katie can tell me what Jewish people doing this situation the Catholics you know give you I give you penance you do 10 Hail Mary's and 10 our fathers and then you get to move forward I want to give that to you in the Catholic spirit because you did this tweet right before you went dark.

Reuben guy I go read Trump wants to invade Panama Greenland and now Gaza Trump is a warm on her.

Credit to Reuben he was right about that you replied your mom named you after a sandwich. That's funny he was right you were wrong but I want you to use that skill set for good. I was right that his mom named him after a sandwich and it's funny. Look there's no foreign policy take there whatsoever.

“One last try. Do you want to comment on Elon's microfellus or like just draw picture of it or something.”

I am not at liberty to discuss that.

Conor eats pants try getting me on that as well but. The greatest journalist of our time by the way. God knows I can't compete with him. Anything like just you know like something is dead like in his bedtime drawer he's got a little binky you know sort of a little some things he's sleep with the. Sleep with the teddy bear something there's nothing that one little.

I will I will respect his privacy in that regard. Lastly give me a little kid talk you got two kids now obviously we respect their privacy but just tell us something about being a mom that's been a blessing. The older son is today same Patrick's day so he's dressed as a leprechaun and the full get up he's very excited.

“They are the best parts of my life and it's all I focus on you know that's why I'm I go more dark now because they are so incredible and.”

I hope everyone at at some point gets to experience that joy of parental but it really makes you reflect on what your beliefs are as you have to explain the world to these little. Little beings who are going to grow into their own and I don't know I hope that my my motherhood will live forever through them and through their kids and I hope that it's impactful and meaningful. And that I can make them proud but they are. I love them both so much. I hope you can't tell you're doing the right thing you're doing really well I appreciate my daughter came downstairs today.

I'm a little little green hat that has the thing where you press the button in the ears go up as well as a. Shamrock necklace and she looked at my husband and said is this too much. It's like. It's never. My son has said that he has crabs in his pocket that he will throw out people if they're not wearing.

So the crabs are doing the pinching. He's outsource the pinching to his minion crabs. We'll send me some kid pictures on the ground. I appreciate you so much. Actually thanks for coming on the show and take off the hair shirt and just go forth and do the right thing. All right, Carl. Of course. Thanks Tim. I appreciate you so much. I've next nobody came cast.

[Music]

Now the cheese. A new keynote magazine of the Kerses smacked. The next few weeks of the scandal. The best. You can test it once. If you have the cheese, cheese. The cheese. Now the greatest test. Carl is 18 years old. Carl and Casembaugh are the most beautiful young. [Music]

We are back. He's my many. We used to do a podcast together. He was also a candidate for New York's 12th congressional district and co-founder of March for our lives. You left the campaign to focus on the piece of human rights legislation. This is working on with Rokana. Because he's a person who cares. He's person who does things and cares.

Jim Chasky. What's up, brother? The fuck is up, gang. We're back.

“Hey, Ben. How you been? I'm good. You know I'm good. How are you doing?”

Are you vaping? No, I did it hookah recently. You hookah? It had been years since I had done nicotine. But then I was in an ancient city called Sebastia. It's like a 3,000 year old city and the mayor offered me a head of his hookah. And I was like, well, I'm going to do say no. But I hadn't eaten in like two days.

So I ended up being kicked. I didn't puke, but I was like, it was like I just don't crack. Like my entire body was buzzing. I couldn't sit still. It was so cry and slept.

I was overseas. I had never been overseas before.

So I didn't really know what jet lag actually was. Jet lag to me was like going to LA and it's like, oh, you woke up an hour earlier this morning. So it's just a fucking mess. But anyway, wait a minute, your trip to Israel. And the West Bank was your first time ever leaving America? Yeah.

You never been to like Cancun? No. No, I've been to Tulum. I haven't been anywhere. Montréal?

No, I don't really.

“That is fascinating. That kind of makes you more like the media in American than I realized.”

I am the media in America. Are you kidding me? Like I don't have any culture. My family history is like, oh, we moved to Florida in 1997. That's, that's what I got. I was going to talk to you about Ashley St. Claire. We'll save that for the end. We'll save that for dessert.

We'll talk about the serious stuff first.

The trip where you hook it in the ancient city. Your first trip abroad was, I guess this legislation came out of that. So talk to us about your trip and what you saw. Sure. So you know, I was running for Congress in New York 12, which everybody at the bulwark is doing these days.

And Palestine was a huge issue of mine. So a lot of people in my district were saying, well, if you care so much about the people over on Palestine, once you go over there and see how they feel about you, Jewish boy. So I went over there and it turns out they like me way more than they like me and my congressional district. It isn't even most. I would have a much better job.

If there was, I would have a much better chance winning over there than I would in New York.

“Well, I disagree. I think I think your chance to know you've 12 is better than you thought.”

But we'll say that for another day. I mean, we'll see. Listen, there was a poll that got leaked to Jewish insider in an article where they were trying to rat fuck me. And it was like, yeah, caskies unpromising polling showed him at 8% with nobody over 20. And I was like, you know that that's like a dramatic over performance. Like I would not have guessed that at all.

I would have put myself in the 80%. 8% with nobody over 20. Better than job. Well, you know, it's not a competition. It's a different situation.

But no, so point is, I go overseas again.

I'd never been there before.

I have to make up a fake reason that I'm going to get through Israeli customs because if you tell the Israeli airport that you're going to the occupied West Bank, they'll interrogate you. They might just turn you away in 2022 a log-up past where Israel can just not let you in. If they don't want to, there doesn't need to be any sort of alignment between you and any violent rhetoric or language. It's just like they could just not like your vibe and be like, okay, get the fuck out because it's the only democracy in the Middle East.

So I put together this elaborate plan to get through customs. Got through customs went right to the West Bank. I went to baits a her, which is the city where the shepherd found out about the birth of Jesus. And then they went over to Bethlehem, which I also went to. I went to the Church of Nativity and I did that thing where you get on your knees.

Like, right where Jesus was born and you do a little prayer. And I was like, I mean, I've read revelations. So I've got that going for me in the Christian realm. Well, that's crazy. Well, it's the vibe like the Church of the Nativity.

It was Christmas week. I was in Bethlehem on Christmas Eve. So it was kind of crazy.

I was like, whoa, I'm leading a peace march in Bethlehem on on Christmas Eve.

Like, if I were Christian, this would probably be the coolest thing in the world.

“But again, almost everything I know about the Bible is the book of revelations.”

And the book of revelations is wild. It's like, it makes Genesis look like a children's book. It's like, the Bible is these allegories and these stories about temptation and the human nature. And then revelations is like, all right, guys, there's going to be a giant snake made out of fire that's going to eat the entire world. I digress.

I go around the West Bank. And it's a very interesting situation because I'm in all these different sorts of life. I mean, these urban population centers. And then these Bedwin villages. And these more suburban areas and everything.

And the life that they experience there, there's all these different sorts of. Of struggle that they go through because in some places, you see these military checkpoints where people cannot walk home because they just get turned away by the Israeli army. And what should be a seven minute walk back to their house ends up taking them 90 plus minutes.

“And then there's other places where settler militias will just raid villages and shoot people, point blank and broad daylight.”

This happened to my friend's husband who was murdered last year by a guy named Yenon Levy, who not only faced no criminal consequences. He also regularly comes back to the village to harass people to this day. And it's just all these different things. Like in Gaza, you have this very clear picture of this war and this bombing and this constant barrage of drone strikes and bullets in the West Bank. It's very much death by a thousand cuts.

And it's a slower, more meticulous process than involves going after the water sources, energy grids, all these different things. Economic collective punishment. It's a very complex situation. And you know, I'm a dipshit layman.

I'd never left the country before.

So it was just a weird experience for me. How long are you there? Has there for a week, I would have stayed longer if I weren't, you know, running a congressional campaign. What about the plane with the kids? Talk to me about shooting hoops. Oh my, well, the kids were so cute.

There was one little girl who I scared. She was probably about four years old and I was going up to her brothers in hibern to play football with them. That's what they call it football. It's this word for soccer that people use. And she saw me and she kind of jumped for a second. And I realized this girl was probably like three or four years old.

The tourism industry in the West Bank, which is like what keeps the West Bank alive has just disappeared since October 7th.

I might have been the first white person she has ever seen that was not a settler trying to harass her family.

Yeah. And then I just gave her candy and she was chill. The kids, they go crazy for candy. And I went to this village called Uma here where I brought bags of candy. My friend Jasper, who's a journalist told me to do it.

And the kids would just swarm me. But then when I ran out of candy, I did not know the Arabic to tell them that I didn't have candy. So they thought that I was just like playing a game with them. And they kept them being like candy. I was like, guys, guys, I actually don't have anymore.

I'm sorry. I was like, go over to different villagers who spoke English.

“I was like, can you guys tell them an Arabic kind of candy anymore?”

Universal experience, the kid will love you until the second that you don't give them exactly what they're hoping for.

And then all the sudden you're worthless, totally useless. Yeah. So you come back. You decide to get out of the race. We'll get to that in a second.

You go down to DC. You talk to Row, Kana, and others about doing some legislation. Like, what are you guys asking for? I mean, everything that happens in the West Bank, we fund. And a lot of people in the liberal Zionist world who are ultimately supportive of Israel agree that the West Bank operation is something that must be stopped at all costs.

Like, even people who will totally defend Israel and are ultimately considered themselves allies of Israel, they're against the West Bank stuff. But there's this big misunderstanding that the West Bank settlements are something that happened in spite of Israeli policy and not as the direct result of Israeli policy. But there is a guy named Bezelo Smiltrich, the finance minister of Israel who met in Yahoo's place in charge of the occupied West Bank. Smiltrich was a wanted terrorist in Israel.

He was somebody that even the Israeli government said, we need to put this guy behind bars. Only maybe, let's say 20 years ago, now he's in charge of the West Bank. And since October 7th, kind of under the cover of Gaza, the West Bank, settler violence, settlement expansions, it is all just, it's been on fast forward.

I mean, right when I got back, like the day my flight landed, and we'll talk ...

I don't know if you saw that. Oh, yeah.

“But the day that I landed, 19 new settlements just got approved.”

And they're choking these people out. So I said to Roe, we can't just, you know, talk about how the settler violence is bad. We can't just demand investigations into the killings of American citizens who are killed in the West Bank.

I mean, just stop and think about that for a second.

American citizens are killed by Israelis in the West Bank. Yeah, they're selling from Philadelphia. I like a couple of weeks ago. Yeah, and of course, John Fetterman didn't have a word to say about it. But we can't just look at the settler violence as if the settlements themselves are not the reason this is happening.

And as if the state of Israel itself is not allowing these settlements to happen. I mean, again, people will act like the settlements are like acne. And they just kind of pop up out of nowhere. But it's the Israeli military that accompanies the settlers to go kill these people.

And it's not just the Israeli military.

It's also the Palestinian Authority, Palestinian Authority that governs the West Bank. We'll just stand there while an Israeli military officer or an Israeli settler kills a Palestinian. And the PA just sits there and does nothing. If not actively participates. So it's this very complex situation.

And what I said to Rowe was, we need a resolution that is going to shine a light on all the different tactics that Israel is using in the West Bank. Because every area you go to, they're doing different things. They're placing demolition orders on community centers. They are in Sebastian, for example, the place I hit the hookah. They are using archaeology as an excuse to steal land from Palestinians.

So Israeli officials will basically submit a picture of like broken clay pots and say,

Oh, this is actually an archaeological site. We need to make sure Palestinians can't build anything here. We need to confiscate it for ourselves actually. So they'll obviously burn down all the Palestinians, all of groves. Everywhere you go, you can point to all these different things.

And if you look at the resolution that Rowe introduced that we worked very hard on, you can see we cover a lot of different things from a lot of different angles. Because the West Bank operation is very complex.

“For dummies like me, just the nuts of it, the nuts of the resolution is what?”

Like they ask us what? Demanding and into lifting of the demolition orders on buildings in and then we list all the different villages with that's happening. And then to the archaeological land confiscation in places like Sebastian, there's a lot of roads that are getting built that are cutting Palestinian villages off from one another, because they will like be building infrastructure for Israeli settlements.

And in doing so, just cut off Palestinian's ability to reach their water supply, to reach their electricity. And just a lot of different things like that. We're working on something in the near future to look at the fact that we are offering US embassy services in the occupied West Bank, which by the way, like according to the Oslo Accords, according to the agreed upon international law, the Israeli settlements in the West Bank are a huge human rights violation.

I see this to people pretty frequently, even if you just completely took goes out of the equation. Even if you acted as though there was absolutely nothing going on there, the West Bank occupation is still one of the biggest human rights violations happening in the world right now. But there's a difference between the West Bank and Sudan and the gang wars and Haiti. And you crane, there's a very important distinction to make here, which is that the American taxpayer is not subsidizing the RSF and Sudan.

“I mean, I think we need to be placing harder sanctions on the United Arab Emirates.”

Yeah, we're doing deals at the UAE that subsidizing them, so, you know, a little bit of bank shop, but yeah. Sure, but like every single bullet that is being fired by Israeli forces, whether that's children and Lebanon, whether that's all, we're all chipping into that. You know, and I can't say the same thing about barbecues gang in port of prince. If I want to talk about the primary stuff since you were in the primary race, we got a primary tonight. I wasn't a primary race, we do.

There's a bunch of races in Illinois, the Senate race has been interesting. I think the lieutenant governor there. Is the Senate race close? It is, yeah. A lot of these races, like the degree to which APAC has played such a big role in all these races, it's like pretty insane actually,

Because in the Senate race in Illinois, it's like everybody's accusing everyb...

That's the thing that I'm seeing the most, it's like, it's like fucking wild.

But Julianna Stratton's lieutenant governor, she was losing the polls, Rajah. I don't want to butcher his name, Congressman Rajah was winning the polls, but Stratton seems to be, you know, kind of, have the momentum, we'll see how it, we'll see how it shakes out. Tonight, but then there are a bunch of congressional races, including the one that's got the most attention is one of our former FY podcasts, Kat Abagazele, was like the kind of lefty online candidate against Daniel Biss, who's more of like a, I guess, liberal left traditional candidate.

“And then there is an actual APAC candidate in that race, then I think there's another leftist candidate.”

It's kind of a four-way race, Kat and Biss seem to be the two most likely to win. I mean, you've been monitoring that, you have any hot takes on it. I've seen some tweets from you on that race. It'll be very interesting to see, I mean, you're right to say, it's going to be Biss or Kat.

And either way, I mean, the way that I put it is like, if Kat comes in third place, that is still a dramatic, over performance, considering like,

her youth in an arc of lepsi. No, a radical left position. Well, she, again, she's not even the radical leftist in the race. There's a, there's a girl who's running against her from the left.

“So this is, this is how weird the APAC world has gotten.”

This is how strange the puzzle of like APAC science has gotten. There's a candidate named Bisshrab who is to the left of Kat and has a lot of community ties that are sort of, you know, people around her who are telling her, no, you can actually win, no, you can actually win. I've noticed from my experience as a candidate that that's something that happens a lot.

With candidates, like a lot of the candidates who stay in races and I'm sure you've seen this a million times.

A lot of the candidates where you're like, oh, the only reason they're staying in is because they're trying to make a point or because, you know, they, there's some sort of endgame here. It's so hard to believe that some people can actually be convinced that somehow, even though they're pulling at 0.05%. And then they can make it happen. No, a lot of these people are just surrounded by enough people being like, no, no, you got it.

No, you had to experience this. Was it weird being a candidate, people treat you different? Like when you're a candidate for a couple months, did you notice people being like, well, nicer to you or a little bit more excited to see you? Funering you up a little more. Yes, I don't know. I just, I, I very deliberately surround myself with a specific type of person generally speaking because, you know, the way my brain works, I just constantly need to be around people who are telling me that I'm full of shit.

But no, I, I definitely had some people around me from my team. Maybe not on the higher levels of my team, but, you know, and sort of like the middle management side of my team who just thought I could do no wrong and everything. You know, I was like, okay, calm down. Like, hey, hey, I'm not even professing the as smart as you're treating me right now. Like, I'm running as a dipshit layman. I'm just running as a dipshit.

“You should get a lot of people telling you they're for you, you know, which makes you feel like you could win.”

This is like the, the anecdote people, I can't you be like, yeah, I'm for you. That's like you even in my district. Yeah, that's one of the big things. Yeah, it's like, oh my god, I would have been so much more effective as a national candidate than as a, than as a New York 12 candidate. I could have gone to Wisconsin and talked about my fucking baseball team the whole time and immediately won the state. Back to Bushra. Yeah, with the cat race, so you've got Bushra and she's running to the left of Cat and the A pack through one of their many shell companies has been releasing pro Bushra ads to explain why Bushra is actually the the right choice.

This is New Jersey. And then there's an ended up with like a leftist congressperson beat Tom Mellonowski. Yeah, it was more of like a bowlworky Democrat and at his Mellonowski, like had criticized Israel. And so now they ended up with like a squad member, this happened. The other thing is like Daniel Biss, who I don't think is is like bad by the way, I don't, I prefer capital. I don't think Biss is like some, some rotten pieces shit, but Daniel Biss from what I understand tried to get the A pack and doors.

But the A pack and doorsmen didn't get the A pack and doorsmen and is now like, I'm not bought off by a pack and it's like, yeah, they didn't want you, bro. Like, sorry. So A pack chest has just gotten so complex now that they're spending money on the candidates that were that candidate someone who actually has a shot. They would be doing everything they possibly can to stop. And it's just very strange, but then you saw there was a report in MSNBC, I think they're they're the ones who broke this.

There were influencers getting paid $1,500 per post to shit talk cat.

Yeah. And it's not just A pack, there's a fuckload of crypto and AI money in Illinois as well. You're right, too. There's like a pro AI camera. Trying to destroy Alex Boris, the two guys like who were the traditional New York candidates here, because you know, George Conway is a special case, Jack Schlossberg is a special case.

Alex Boris and Michael Lashcher are like the expected guys here and film machine. I mean, Alex Boris literally, because AI is a primary focus, but Alex and Mike from a policy perspective are almost indistinguishable from one another. But AI is spending millions already to stop Alex for like some fairly regular AI takes.

Like my AI take is basically destroy every AI data center.

Unplugged the server. Yeah. They destroyed all build affordable housing over them. Alex Boris is like, make sure that, you know, your children aren't making child porn on AI. Just like very basic things like that. And apparently, he's just like this huge fucking threat to them.

“But I said privately to Alex, like dude, you need to keep reminding people that it's the worst people in the world who are trying to stop.”

You, that's your best weapon here, judge me by my enemies. Like that, you know, there's AI execs who tweet things like, I want to destroy the world. Like, you know, immigrants are destroying the country and I want to use AI to purify our nation. Yeah, all those guys are spending against Boris. And it's interesting, because you've got a pack, which is this big new buggy man.

And then you've got AI packs. [laughter]

I don't know if those are the two interest groups who are making choices in democratic primaries.

But that's where we're at right now. That's maybe a conversation for a longer day. I've won other primary one to get you. Have you endorsed anybody actually in your old race yet? Have you endorsed anybody yet? No, I don't. Maybe I won. Maybe I won. I'm not sharing that.

You made my life a lot these year, because I'm for George. I'd only donated to you. I will say, but now I get to be for George. I have an actually out-of-the-check book yet. Hopefully he's not listening to the podcast. So I'm going to get a text after this asking for my contribution. You had publicly endorsed me on our last FY pod episode.

And you had said, "I endorsed Cam. You couldn't take it back." Correct. And I was going to make an endorsement section of our website. And it was just going to be you and Ms. Rachel. It was going to be endorsed by Taylor Miller and Ms. Rachel.

I'm fucking pissed that you didn't do that. There's an ad out today from Janet Mills attacking Graham Platner on this. The ad is women looking at eye-pad reading as right at posts, where he says that women who get assaulted should act like adults, then they should not get so fucked up.

I got to just say, this is the thing you're not supposed to say. As a podcaster, as a commentator, and all this, I have no idea whether that will work.

“I truly don't. I think that in some, I can a different world.”

I think those are some pretty bad read-up posts and democratic primary voters who are very me too oriented and friendly would reject a male, white male straight that had posted stuff like that. In this day and age, after the Biden thing, after just the disappointment, the establishment, I don't know.

I think I'm not sure it's going to work. You're just more in touch with the progressive aid than me. So I was interested in what you thought about that. I think the progressive aid. I said this about me recently because I had made some comments in the past

that were by really any measure just outright Islamophobic. And I was talking to people about it because it was being called into question, this sincerity of the dedication that I have to human rights and the Middle East and North Africa region. And I said, it's kind of one of the most classic themes in a story of all time

as can a man change. Like if you go through all literature, fables, tales, dating back to ancient times, one of the most common themes you'll see is can a man change. And you'll notice that all of the happy stories

and with the answer, yes, and all of the tragedies and with no.

“And I think that a lot of people want to believe in the”

redemptive power of the human spirit and a lot of people also recognize that it's not like this was someone who was a business leader posting this shit from his C-suite.

You know, executive first class airplane seat.

This was somebody who had just come back from war. So somebody who just came back from, by the way, the same type of war that everybody is outraged about right now. And people see these comments as something that we're being made by somebody who was ejected and felt like the American

Experiment politically and socially had left him behind.

And now what is he doing with his life is he continuing to stew about in the dark or is he trying to do something to help people. So I think that this would have been a very different story if Graham Plattener was running against John Ossoff or Raphael Warnock, but he's running against an extremely weak candidate.

I think we'll also often Warnock or a little bit more and even somebody with some juice. It would be a different story. But Janet Mills doesn't have any juice.

That's really, it's really powerful what you said there about

the fables and the redemptive spirit. It's tied to what we talked about in the first segment. You know, like talked about this with Ashley and as she's obviously grappling with this and you know, what she needs to do, talk, redeem herself,

just kind of crazy thing to grapple with as a 20-sector old single mother of two.

“But like that's what she has to kind of think about”

like what is valuable for her to do. She's 26. Yeah, we talked about that too. Can't. Yeah, those two kids.

We could really feed on your set to parenthood. I was going to say it's put us in a group text. Okay, we'll put you on a group text out to this. I'm also not the one. The.

Yeah, we're talking about what is Joe Kent on that show. Joe Kent resigned today and it's like, Joe Kent had a bunch of anti-Semitic shit in the past and he resigned over the Iran war.

And it's like, well, did he resign over the Iran works?

He's anti-Semitic or he resigned over the Iran war because it's like corrupt and wrong and it goes against like what he believed is a former soldier who thought that we're not going to get the stupid wars anymore. It's like, and this same thing that's a platinum.

And it's like, I think people assess all these people whether to be like Ashley or Joe or platinum. And they're like, I can't read that matter. And like, try to decide, like am I being snowed by this person? You know, or is this person demonstrating that they are

redeemable and that they want to be redeemed and that they are earnest. And it might be different in different of those cases. But like, my view on the platinum thing is like, all you can do is judge them by what they're doing now.

And maybe you end up getting snowed sometimes, but you can judge them by what they're saying and doing now. And I would rather someone try to redeem themselves and be imperfect than the opposite. You know, if we were all defined by our lowest moments,

we would not be in good positions, right? Like, anybody listening to this can think of the worst decisions that you've ever made, the worst beliefs you've ever had, the worst things you've ever said. And if somebody tried to say, that's you, that's who you are.

You would say absolutely not that that was.

“So maybe it's part of who I am and that's what I'm grappling with.”

Like, everybody has demons, you know, right? You know what I mean? Like, that's also part of it. No, I don't know what you're talking about. I don't have any demons.

Yes, I don't have demons. Well, I don't have demons if you go grapple. You go into my brain and it's just angels floating around with hearts. We all got demons, baby.

Yeah, I don't know. Oh, it's going to be all the Hillary thing. Everybody obsessed over her saying to the magas were deplorable. And I was like, that wasn't the problem. So she said they were irritable and I don't know.

We'll see if any of these people earn their redemption. Can we were supposed to talk about looks maxing? We're like an hour over the length of how long this podcast is going to be. So we're going to do like, well, there's very quick. We're going to brag on this.

Everybody's talking about cloveicular now. Cloveicular won't come on the bulwark because he doesn't think it's mangable. Just wrong. Just wrong.

It's not mangable. Cameron and I podcast one. Go to the FYY pod archives.

“It wasn't even really the first episode.”

It was a trial to see if this project could work. Oops. And it was about fucking looks maxing. We're doing this shit. We're doing this shit over a year ago.

Like, how do we gain? Get mugged everybody. Get mugged. That's Cameron Kasky. I appreciate the work you don't bother.

Let's stay in touch, right? Let me in the stand touch. We fucking we talk. We talk every day. All right.

We do talk a lot. Yeah, let's stay in touch. Email me. Yeah, you're right. What the fuck was I saying?

I don't know, man. It just was like, I just like talked to me. Talk to me. I just want your attention. Sorry.

I'll see you in the fucking wedding that we're going to together. See you at the wedding.

I'm Cameron's first one for a wedding soon.

Everybody. Thank you. And I actually thank you to Cameron. Tomorrow we have another friend of Cameron's. I think he's going to be on the pod.

And this is a little teaser for that. So we'll see you back here. Then we'll see in Texas. Come to the Austin events. Way up in the balcony.

There are a couple of seats left. You'll be able to see me with your binoculars. If you buy tickets right now, the work dot com slash events. And we'll see you all soon. Bye, Cameron.

♪ Won't you help to say ♪ ♪ Please hold the freedom ♪ ♪ 'Cause all I ever have ♪ ♪ Redemption song ♪ ♪ Redemption song ♪

The board podcast is brought to you. Thanks to the Lord of Lead Producer Katie Cooper. Associate producer Ansley Skipper. And with video editing by Katie Loots.

Transcript

There is cheese.

Recruited ambassadors like you.

That is a thing out there.

He's very manic.

I'm going to go to the next page.

X AI has an issue because nobody really wanted to play with grok.

I'm not quite sure the best way to help except, you know, speaking out now an...

Born from over a decade of longevity research, one skin's OS one peptide is p...

A team to outlets are lying to them that nothing they put out can be true so ...

That's kind of flips a switch and you know where you're like oh you guys all ...

[Music]

I was like, whoa, I'm leading a peace march in Bethlehem on on Christmas Eve.

I mean, right when I got back, like the day my flight landed, and we'll talk ...

Because in the Senate race in Illinois, it's like everybody's accusing everyb...

There were influencers getting paid $1,500 per post to shit talk cat.

Experiment politically and socially had left him behind.

Audio engineering and editing by Jason Brown.

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