Are Christians Required to Pledge Loyalty to Bibi Netanyahu? Carrie Prejean Boller & Tucker Respond.

Kerry, thank you for doing this. I've been watching you on the internet, I've never met you, but I'm grateful for your honesty and your bravery. And the precision of what you say, you never in the face of all this criticism, never got so mad that you revealed ugly sentiments which I don't think you have.

You just stuck right to the Christian case, so bless you for that. How did you get involved in the President's religious liberty commission? What is it and how did you become a member of it? >> Very good question. So I was in this California in 2009, Donald Trump owned the mis-Universumist USA organization.

It was very controversial, but I dared to say on stage that I believe marriage is between one man and one woman. >> Yes.

“>> And I don't know if you remember that.”

>> I do remember it, they punished you for it. >> Huge controversy. That was really before anybody was canceled.

So I always tell people I was one of the first to be canceled.

>> The crazy thing is the majority of Californians agreed with you because they voted. >> They voted. >> Yeah. >> In a referendum, pretty overwhelming.

>> Prop 8, which was then invalidated by a judge because democracy's fake. >> Exactly. >> But you were saying what most of your fellow Californians believe. >> 100%. Yeah, I was just standing on my principles, which is what I'm doing now.

So Donald Trump loved me. He said, Carrie, this is going to be the best thing that ever happened to you. I remember one day, it was in his office and he's like, Carrie, you have the it factor. And I'm like, what is that? That's 21 years old.

I'm like, what does that mean? And he's like, you just have it. He's like, you dared to speak the truth knowing what it would cost you.

“And I think he really respected me for that.”

And so at 21, I became this conservative darling, I guess you could say, and dared to stand up for my faith and double down. They told me go on, Matt Lauer and apologize for what you said. You must apologize. >> Is it really telling you though?

>> Yeah, the pageant people said, go on and apologize, and I turn my phone off. I went on Matt Lauer and he's like, all right, Carrie, let's do a redo. How would you answer the question? I said, I have no regrets. I would literally get an election, sexual ethics from Matt Lauer.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. And the irony of that. Yeah. So I said, I'd rather be biblically correct than politically correct.

And from there, it was like, I mean, I was on every news station, every day for the four months. It was nonstop. It was to the point of harassment, like my 90-year-old grandma there was being harassed. I mean, it was insane.

But I stood firm and I did not waver.

“>> And your position just to restate all these years later was, I believe, marriage is between”

a man and a woman. >> That was my answer. I said, I said no offense to anyone out there, this is the way I was raised. This is what I believe, marriage between one man and one woman. And I got second place and I got drag through the mud.

It was horrible. And the president loved me and he said, carry, this is what do you want to do? He's like, do you want to be on dance with the stars? Do you want to be on Fox News? I did like a little try out on the morning show at Fox with Roger Eils in New York.

I don't want to do that. I want to wake up at 3am. >> No, you don't. >> And I said, you know what, Mr. President, I said, all I want to do is get married, be a mom, I had met Kyle and I just said, I just want to go on with my life.

But I do want to write a book because nobody can take my story from me. And so he signed off on it. Thank God, he did because it was amazing that I was able to share my story. And I just kept in touch with him all these years. And so, you know, I would defend him when they were calling him a sexist saying he was going

backstage and looking at the girls and Miss USA and the, you know, changing rooms. And I would just constantly be like, no, that's not the guy. Like you're painting him as this sexist, misogynist, racist, you know, and he was being called every name in the book you remember.

And I just defended him always because I stand on truth and then fast forward to this

religious liberty commission. And I got a call from the White House two days after I was confirmed as a Catholic. And they said, we're calling on behalf of the president. We want to invite you to be on this religious liberty commission. >> When was that?

>> It was April 20th, I want to say, 2025. And I wept, I was like, wow, this is incredible. I mean, almost 20 years later after I took that stand here, I am now defending religious liberty. Because I ultimately lost the Miss USA or Miss California title because of my answer. >> Yeah.

>> I will say that. They took it away from me. >> I remember. >> Yeah. And the president had my back, which was, which was amazing.

He said she did said nothing wrong. She stood on her principles. And I loved that about him. >> Amen, I agree. >> Because that was when it was unpopular to do that.

>> Yes. >> You know, he risks a lot. I was standing there at Trump Tower with him and it was amazing. I'll never forget that. And so we just stayed friends.

I would call him always on the golf course and be like, hey, they're asking me to go

on the gay pride parade.

And he's like, I'll take care of it.

Don't worry. >> And so. >> The patch and people are trying to get you to march in the gay pride parade. >> Yeah, they're like, wow, you can make it up to the gaze by just going to the gay pride parade.

I'm showing that you're not a homophobic. So I'm used to these tricks. I've been doing this 20 years, so yeah. So that's how I got on the commission. >> It's exactly what's happening now.

It's exactly. Topic has changed sort of, but not the tactics.

“So what did they tell you the religious liberty commission was?”

>> They told me that the religious liberty commission was 12 of us, 12 commissioners. And our job was to hear from every day average Americans who were facing religious persecution, like myself right now, ironically. So we would have hearings in DC once a month. And Dan Patrick is the chairman of the commission.

We're equals on this commission. >> He's Dan Patrick. >> He's the lieutenant governor of Texas. He's not above me. I'm not above him.

We're equals. And it's under the Department of Justice. So Pam Bondi is involved. >> Actually. >> Yeah.

>> Okay. So we were told that we were going to be hearing from people at these hearings. It's from like eight to two in the afternoon, so very long day. And the witnesses we could recommend witnesses. And then have them come and testify and I recommended so many great witnesses throughout

these past seven months. I recommended a little boy who was forced to read a book about how you can be a transgender. And he came and met the president and everybody got to see that. That was special. And the president really appreciated him and his parents' stance and Danny up for religious

reasons. So stuff like that. And we heard from a Navy seal who lost his pension because he didn't want to get the COVID shot. Things like that where we were doing really great work.

And I thought it was actually protecting religious freedom. But I realized now that's not what it was. >> No. Was softening up Christians for the Iran war, obviously. And other things.

Who were the other members of it, the other 11? >> Yes, so I actually, when I got the call, I actually wept because I didn't feel qualified.

I thought, you know, here I am amongst these incredible names, Bishop Baron, Cardinal Dolan,

Kelly Shackleford. He's run a religious liberty law firm for 35 years. He's a big CEO. You had Ryan Anderson. You had crazy Paula White.

Just sees incredible names.

“You have a woman, Allison Ho, who I believe her husband might be the next Supreme Court”

justice. Just, she's argued at the Supreme Court over, I think, eight times. I mean, here I am, this mom, who I just didn't feel qualified. >> I didn't make the connection between your own experience of religious discrimination and disappointment.

But really, that was the point, right? >> Then I realized that, no, I am qualified. In fact, I'm probably one of the most qualified because I don't know how many people on that stage have ever been attacked, have ever been slandered, have ever been canceled, have ever lost anything.

I mean, look at Dr. Phil. He's on the commission. He has huge organization. They have big backing, big money behind them. And here I am, this little mom that I'm not owned by anybody.

They can't take anything from me. And that's why I'm free. And that's why I said what I said that day. >> So what were the meetings like? >> Prior to the anti-Semitism hearing, they were incredible.

I was crying, as I would listen to these people who are facing religious persecution, and the end of this, the main part of this commission is the end of the one-year appointment was we were going to sit down with the president and say, okay, here's our report.

Here's what we recommend that you, you know, maybe executive orders that you can put in,

maybe legislative things that you can push to protect religious freedom. And so I took this, this position, very serious, very serious. It makes me sad, you know, I was a champion for mothers who didn't want to vaccinate their kids to go to school. I listened to people that are suffering in Gaza, that simply just were protesting at

their college campus, they're using their first amendment rights. It's crazy. >> Did you have any sense from talking to the other members between April when you got it?

“And was it January, I think, when this contract happened?”

Did you have any sense that the other members of the commission were trying to steer you in a certain direction, disagreed with you, had an agenda that was not stated? >> I realized in August, so I got, I got appointed in April, or May, May 1st, National Day Prayer, when it's the White House, the President signed the executive order, we're all standing there, and then we took the summer break.

And then our first hearing was going to be, I believe it was, end of August or early September.

Well, end of August, I got a call from the White House, the PPO, or I guess it was, no, it was the designated federal officer who's in charge of the commission. So the head of Dan, he's the chairman and then his boss. And she's like, hey, Carrie, I noticed that you've been posting some things online, and there's been some chatter in the White House that you're in anti-Semite.

>> You're an anti-Semite?

“>> And I, I literally was like, what are you talking about?”

>> She was this person. >> Her name's Mary Margaret Bush, and she said, I don't know who it is, but it's probably some low person that is just trying to cause problems. I would ignore it, but I just wanted to make sure that you're mindful of what you're posting. And that was the first time where I was like, okay, like, I am not, this is not a paid position.

I'm a volunteer, they pay for my flight, they pay for my hotel, but that's it. I'm not paid to do this job, I'm volunteering this job. And so I said, wait a sec, I pushed back, and I said, you're telling me that as a religious liberty commissioner to protect religious liberty, I don't have my religious liberty to post about things that affect my religion and my religious beliefs.

So I said, I pushed back, and I said, what are the things that I've been posting? >> While you posted Tucker Carlson's, or you posted the green gray that you interviewed, Anthony Aguilar, I said, yeah, I did, I did post that, that's sad, that's heartbreaking to shooting people in food lines, yeah, which they have. And I said, I'm a pro-life Christian, I have a duty to speak out, and it would be a betrayal

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Visit vanman.shop/tucker, use the co-tucker for 15% off your first order, vanman.shop/tucker, use the co-tucker, 15% off, vanman-reeling ingredients, zero exceptions. So this woman from the White House said that posting an interview that I did made you an anti-symite. She said that there were people complaining about certain things that I was posting, and

then this was the worst. She said, you posted polio, and what he said, and you wrote in the caption that there's suffering in Gaza and there's a genocide, you really just, you shouldn't use that language. That's when I knew, this is, this is a war, we are in an absolute war. I said, I'm a Catholic.

You're telling me that I have to censor my posts of polio, the Holy Father, I can't post what he's saying, talking about the grave suffering of the Palestinians in Gaza. And she said, you also cannot, cannot talk about Zionism.

“So Zionism, this is her words, is, is there right to exist?”

And so when you're posting about Zionism, carry, you're saying that the Jews don't have a right to exist. Well, Mary Margaret Bush is her name, she's a young woman, and I said, well, this wouldn't jeopardize my position on the commission, would it like the president doesn't know about this right?

Because imagine me, I'm like, I just got appointed, I'm super excited, I'm passionate. This is like my dream job to protect religious freedom, and now I'm being told, I don't have my own. And she goes, oh, no, no, no, the president, no, don't worry about this carry. This wouldn't jeopardize.

So I just kept posting, well, then I got a call from the PPO office at the White House. Yes, I asked you to post once I did she did Mary Margaret Bush tell you who had called you an anti-Semite. That's a serious slander. Oh, yeah.

She named the people saying, she said I have no idea who it is, oh, it's just people people are saying.

“I think the people was Paula White, let's just be honest, it was Paula White, I think my”

personal opinion. Okay.

So now I'm sorry to keep interrupting this amazing narrative, but for people who

don't follow this, who is Paula White? Paula White is Trump's pastor.

That's who he picked as his name.

And she's a pastor. She's that's her official position. She's a pastor. I don't believe women can be pastors, but who am I, I'm just dumb mom in California. So is she's a Christian pastor?

She's a Christian Zionist, evangelical heretic, in my opinion. But yeah, she's Trump's, she runs the White House, the Faith Office, White House position. Yeah, she's on the Religious Liberty Commission with me and very involved in all things

“BB-9 Yahoo and so I got a call from, how would you rate her authority as a Christian leader?”

Oh, I don't take her serious at all. I don't think she's a Christian leader, I think she's a crazy person, honestly, I think she's a heretic. I think for people who think you're throwing those terms around lightly or slandering her, I think it'd be worth going online and reading about her and watching video.

Videos of her demanding money from her congregation on film with some other Christian pastor and a foreign country, clearly she's got a complicated personal life and saying things that bear no resemblance at all to Christian doctrine, that I think it's fair what you're saying, I guess this is my point. Yeah, so I got a call from the White House, Mary Sprolls and other Mary, and I looked

her up. From President's personal office. Yes, PPO office. Yeah, I got a call in August, shortly after that phone call with the other Mary and I'll never forget it.

I answered the phone and she's like, "Hi, Harry. This is Mary Sprolls calling from the White House, PPO office. I'm calling to ask you for your resignation today." When was this? This was in August.

Yeah. This was in August a few weeks after, yes, very scary. And I remember I had like a tear just come down, but I wasn't sad. It was like, it was like anger.

“Had you gone to any meetings of the commission at this point?”

Our first, we had a first hearing just, yeah, briefly, like a brief hearing on just kind of

the history of religious freedom in America, but our first hearing, the most important hearing

coming up, the little boy that had to have a look, was a few weeks later. Okay, so this is before you even, like, served out your duty. Oh, yeah. No, it was before the first official hearing. And she asked for your resignation, she said, "I want your written resignation today."

And I said, "Who are you? I thought this was a joke. Who is this person?" And she goes, "I am calling on behalf of the White House." I said, "Why would you ask me from my resignation?

I just got on this commission. What did I do wrong?" Well, you were tough. Oh, I was not going to go down without a fight because I knew. I knew.

I was looking at your husband who's not, yeah, just tough. Excuse me. No. No, good for you. I said, "I'm not resigning."

And I don't know who asked you to have me resign, was it the president? Because I think the president should ask me to resign if he wants me to resign. He appointed me. And only he can ask for my resignation. So I'm not resigning.

So we got off the phone. Wait, but on what grounds was she demanding a resignation? He did not answer any questions. She was just told. It was like a puppet.

She was like, "I got to just send the message." So I called her back. So she said, "We're asking for your resignation, but she did not explain why." No. She said, "It's just not working out."

Yeah. Literally. Now that it's coming back to me. This was not a tender date. This is not working out.

It's just not working out. And I'm going, this is serious. This is very serious. Yeah. So then I hung up.

And then I wanted to make sure it was a legit person. So I called right back. And I said, "Hi, Mary." I said, "This is Carrie. I'm just curious.

Please. I know you don't want to give me information. I know you're just a messenger because I don't want to be mean to her." Of course. But I said, "Who is telling you to have me resigned?

Who is who have you talked to?"

And I'll never forget it.

She didn't want to say it, but she finally said it. She goes, "I've talked to Paula White and Dan Patrick and Brittany Baldwin. Who Brittany Baldwin used to work for Ted Cruz." So it's all making sense now. What's going on?

So this is a witch hunt that they're trying to actively remove me.

“And they know that the only way that I could be removed is if I resign, or if I die,”

or if the president removes me. So in my mind, I'm thinking, does the president know about this? Or is this just the Dan and Paula trying to out me on their own? I think they thought, "Oh, if we ask your resigned, she'll resign." But I didn't resign.

I said, "No, there's a reason to resign." You should resign, actually. Why are you asking me to resign? So she told me, "Dan Patrick, so immediately, imagine how boiling I was. So I tried to get in touch with Paula White.

No response. I tried to get in touch with Dan. No response. How did you call them or text them, or? The weirdest part about this commission, I honestly think it's so fake and gay, because

we didn't even have each other's phone numbers, emails. I had to literally ask, "Hey, can I get Paula White's email?"

Her name's Rachel. She's a pastor, young woman, and I said, "Hey, Rachel, I just got this disturbing call. I need to talk to Paula immediately." And she's like, "Okay, let me try to get a hold of her.

Paula never called me back."

What? No. I waited for like a week and a half. It was... Isn't she required to in the New Testament?

“If you have a conflict with the fellow person, is it Matthew 18?”

Matthew 18? Matthew 18. Yeah. But I mean, that's a requirement from Jesus. Got a problem.

Go directly to that person. Exactly. So I did, and she did not want to call me back. And then her daughter-in-law, I got her on the phone, and her daughter-in-law said, "Yeah, I talked to my mom."

And she said, "Don't worry about it. There's a lot of snakes in DC. There's a lot of snakes in the White House." And I would just ignore it. And my mother-in-law loves you, Carrie.

Don't worry about it. I think it's just one of the snakes in White House. But Paula White would not speak to you directly. No. No.

Finally, after I was on pins and needles for a week and a half wondering what's going on in my on this commission, I emailed everybody at called Bishop Baron. I got him on the phone. I said, "Hey, have you been, did you hear that they tried to remove me?" He goes, "What?

Why would they try to remove you?" I said, "I have no idea other than I've been criticizing Israel, and, you know, talking about the genocide in Gaza." Sorry. I'm a pro-life Christian.

I can't sit here while children are being starved and bombed. And he totally supported me, and he's like, "This isn't saying.

You would never be removed from that."

Bishop Baron told me that. Talk to Ben Carson.

“Have you been to Ben Carson's on the commission with me?”

Hey Ben, did you hear about them trying to remove me from this commission? No. Absolutely not. Ignore it. I've never heard of anything about this.

Kelly Shackleford, same thing. I said, "You're a religious liberty attorney for 35 years. Did I do something wrong? Am I not allowed to have my religious freedom while serving on this religious liberty commission?"

Or, "Do I have to be a Zionist who supports a genocide? Is that the requirements of this commission?" He said the same thing. I haven't heard of word. I literally talked to almost everyone on the commission.

I talked to Cardinal Dolan in person. I said they tried to get me off this commission, Cardinal. He goes, "What? For what?" I said, "Well, because I've been posting about Gaza."

He goes, "I just gave humanitarian relief to Gaza, so if they're going to kick you off, I guess they're going to kick me off too." Literally his words, Cardinal Dolan. They all supported me. When we started this company, we promised that we would only partner with other companies

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governor of Texas beyond this commission? I think that he is a snake. I think him and Paula are together in this and they wanted to get rid of any dissenting voice that goes against their Zionist. Why was he on the commission?

I didn't even know who he was. I had no idea who he was, but I guess Trump appointed him as the chairman of this commission. So then I got a call after I was on pins and needles.

“I finally got a call and it was Dan and Paula and I'll never forget I literally remember”

everything. Dan Patrick and Paul White. Yes, they called me and they said, "Hi, Carrie. I know you've been worried this past couple weeks, but Dan started and he goes, "I just want to let you know we've been in meetings about your situation."

What's the situation? What's the situation that I'm posting about? God forbid, I criticise Israel, can't do that while serving in this administration. And he said, "You know, I just want to let you know, Carrie, your job on this commission.

I'll never forget this Tucker.

Your job on this commission is protect the president and his reputation." He said that to me the first thing out of his mouth. I couldn't believe it. I go, "What? I thought my job is protect religious freedom.

I thought that's what he appointed me to do." And he goes, "You know, you've been saying things online, Carrie, and you really need to stay off social media.

And then Paula White chimed in and she said, "Yeah, Carrie, you know what? You really shouldn't be posting about replacement theology. You shouldn't be posting about that." And there's a lot of people that are saying that you're an anti-Semite, Carrie, by your posts, and you're criticizing Zionism, and you're criticizing Israel.

And we have a problem with that. And then Dan chimed in again, and he got loud, he got real loud, and he's like, "You know, Carrie?" Because I pushed back.

And I said, "Wait a second, I said, "What am I posting?

What am I posting? That is so offensive to you." That's against the rules of this commission. Because I didn't sign anything saying I wasn't going to use my social media. I speak out about things that I care about.

I'm a religious person, I'm a Christian."

“And he said, "You've been saying things that go against, I'm never forget this."”

He goes, "You've been saying things that are not in alignment with the president, and are not in alignment with Paula White, and some of the other members on this commission." And that's what I knew, that this commission was a fraud. It was pretend. It was not about religious freedom.

It was about you better be a Zionist, you better push our agenda, or you're off. And that was an August. So we ended the conversation. Dan got really upset, because I said, "I really do want to keep posting. I'm not going to not use my social media, can't agree to that, Dan."

And he goes, "Well, why don't you just -- if you have any questions about Israel or Gaza,

because Paula White time didn't -- was like, "I'm the expert in that."

You're just -- Yeah. Yeah, I'm the expert in that. You know, I just got back from there. And there's no kids start big there.

It's all fake. Gary, it's all -- it's all pretend. Yeah. And so she said, "If you want." She's a Christian minister saying that.

Yeah. Yeah. Do you think that she at any point in the course of a day feels like, "Ooh, I'm going to have to answer for this at some point." No, I think she's just --

To deny the death of children and the name of Jesus is a pretty heavy thing to do. It's pretty sick. It's pretty dark. And she said, "I want you if you have any questions about anything.

“If you want to post anything, you need to run it by me first."”

So now, Paula White and equal of mine on this commission is now telling me that I have to get everything approved by her in order to post about my religious beliefs. Is that insane? Yeah, that's being my heartbeat fast. Yeah.

Yes. So that's the backstory. Well, it's completely evil, and I'll just say, "I know Paula White, sort of I know Dan Patrick very well." He's a lot more liberal than I am.

He's quite liberal, but I always liked him.

You know, he's not stupid at all. And I'm shocked by this. I was shocked by it. It's so disgraceful. Me too.

I cried, actually. I cried. I cried in my husband. I cried to my kids. I couldn't believe this.

I couldn't believe that this was happening in the United States of America. That we care more about protecting a foreign nation than we do our own people. Did either one of them Sudan is a self-described Christian, Paula White is some kind of Christian minister, I guess. I want to be clear.

It doesn't look like Christianity to me, but I'm trying not to judge. But did either one of them explain why a requirement of the Christian faith is supporting the Netanyahu government? Did they explain the theology there? Because I don't understand it.

Yeah, no. They never explained it. They just said, you can't have your theology. You can't believe what you want. You have to submit to ours.

But their theology is that Christians are required as a matter of faith to support the government of Israel. Oh, yeah. Do you have any of you? Those who bless Israel will be blessed.

Exactly what Ted told you. Yeah. I mean, he had no idea. We're in the Bible. It was, of course, that line is not actually in the Bible.

It doesn't say that. But whatever, the leap between that, whatever that means, does mean something. And the moral, the religious requirement to support the government of Israel. I mean, those are just like completely two different things. Oh, they don't think they are.

Did Paula White or Dan Patrick explain where you were wrong on doctrine? No. No. They just said, I cannot hold firm to replacement theology. Which they don't know Catholics.

It's fulfillment theology. We believe that we are the fulfillment. You know, it's not replaced. They like to dig us and say, oh, you believe in replacement theology. No, no, no.

We're the fulfillment. Christ is the fulfillment of Israel.

“Well, that's what we have the new people who trust him.”

Yeah. Exactly. I mean, it says it like on every page. So, but they're accusing you of believing in someone called replacement theology. For people who don't follow this, and I'm kind of one of them.

What do they mean by that?

They believe that. So, replacement theology. Their claim is that the church has replaced Israel.

“So, for 2,000 years, that's what all of the early church fathers have taught.”

That we are the new Israel. We're the spiritual semites. They would literally be rolling in their graves if they thought that we were being told that 1948 Israel is some biblical prophecy fulfillment. I mean, that alone is insane.

That they think that this political state of Israel that was created in 48, mostly by atheists, is some biblical prophecy being fulfilled. And I mean, you're aware of Darby and Scofield. So, these, this is the fruit of that of that. Those rocks.

Was there any other place in America in the world, rather, where you have a big group of Christians who believe that 1948 Israel is a fulfillment of prophecy? No, in fact, do you know Tucker that I asked my priest who I had several, I had about six priests guiding me before this hearing, spiritually advising me before this hearing, because I wanted to make sure.

I need to make sure that I know what I'm saying and that it's actually accurate with what the church teaches.

And I'll never forget, he's from Spain.

God bless him. He's so sweet.

“And I said, Father, do you know what Zionism is?”

He looked at me like I was in Alien, and he's like, "What Zionism?" I couldn't believe it. I said, "You realize in America that these people, like Paula White, Dan Patrick, Ted Cruz, most of our politicians in government who have power who are in the White House praying over the president, there's Zionists.

They believe that 1948 Israel is a biblical prophecy fulfillment. He looked at me like I was crazy. He said, "Nobody's ever taught that." I said, "I know." And now they're forcing it on me and Catholic on this commission.

Yeah, it's really scary. Well, it's, yeah. And especially since we just, you know, went up in a war thanks to this.

I mean, it's hard not to see this as all preparation for this war, which is resetting

the world. And they had to get rid of the only dissenter of that of Zionism. They had to get rid of her on this commission before the war. It was within weeks. That did occurred to me watching this wise.

“It's so important to crush this woman like, "Okay, she's confused you disagree with.”

It's a religious liberty commission. You've got, over there, Jews on it too. One rabbi." One rabbi, so he's got different views. You would think, "He's Jewish, your Christian."

That's okay. Yeah. It's okay to disagree. But it's not okay to question the behavior of the secular nation's state of Israel. So that tells you it's not really about religious liberty.

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Yeah. And you say no. Then what happens? So, I kind of played along with it just to see where it would go. So, I didn't stop posting, but I would run things by her.

Like that kid and Florida who was being detained in Israel. Yeah. I sent her an email and I said, "Hey, Paul, I said there's a kid in Israel that's detained." I said, "You are a citizen." You are a citizen.

I said, "We need to do something about this." I said, "I know you have connections with BB. Maybe you can call BB up and see if you can get him released." This is what I am supposed to do on this image. This is a U.S. citizen.

It was being detained, a child in Israel, and nobody's doing anything about it. No response. Then I sent her another email saying, "Hey, Paul, there's a bunch of teachers." The Christian schools in Israel are being shut down because these Palestinian teachers are being told they can't come and teach. So, these Christian schools are going to be closed.

Can you do something about it?

No response.

“So, this arrogant woman who had the audacity to ask me to get things run by her in order to post online,”

doesn't even have the respect to respond. She does not care about religious freedom at all. That's when I really knew that I was up against a big, big giant. So, I just kept posting and I just kept posting more and more every day. Because I wasn't gonna allow them to do this to me.

No, they mess with the wrong person. Apparently, they did. I love it so much I can't stand it. I wish more men were like this. Sorry to say that.

It makes me so sad. Anyway, yeah, it's like 90% of the people I know in my world who were like, oh, you told me to violate my principles. I'm doubling down on my principles. They're like 90% women.

And I don't know what, and I respect and love them all. Truly, review them. But like, half populations male, or we're in the men. I don't get it.

I talked to my wife for this all the time.

Like, what is that? They're afraid. It's... Well, nobody wants to be called an antiseptic. Nobody wants to be called a race.

Nobody wants to go through what you're going through. What I'm going through. No, I agree. You know, they put you in this box and they shut the door. And they say, shut up, you antisemite.

You're not allowed in society. We're going to shame you. We're going to cancel you. We're going to destroy you. It's what they do.

Yeah, of course. These are the chances you're going to get shot to death by a lot, which is one of the reasons they do it. Right. So we had this moment of agreement after Charlie Kirk was killed.

You know, calling people Nazis can get them killed. And so I immediately...

Called Mark Levin and Ben Shapiro and us like, wow, you know,

we should not fight, they both agreed. And the next thing you know, because they do understand, it makes it more likely you'll be killed. Oh, yeah. They're totally profiles.

Obviously. Yeah. And so yeah, the stakes are super high. Very high. I have small children.

Oh, I take this very serious. You should take it seriously. Yeah. So then what happened? So then...

I just doubled down. I kept posting. I wasn't getting any responses from Paula. I sent a follow-up with the head of the commission saying, "Hey, are other commissioners being told they can't post on social media or am I the only one given that guidance?"

Yeah. And she sent me an email back saying,

“"Well, you must have prudence when you post."”

Which I agree with. But none of the other commissioners took her. We're told what I was told. They were all posting freely. Dr. Phil was posting.

Eric Metaxas, who has his own show. He's posting. Eric Metaxas. He's on the commission. Actually?

Yeah. Actually. Crazy. Crazy. Wow.

Since my removal, he has attacked me like you cannot imagine. Very disappointing. You said, said, guy. Yeah.

Said, very troubled guy. So leading up to this hearing. Imagine all that backstory. So people only saw that hearing in February. But there was a whole backstory.

And I kept my mouth shut. I wanted to come out and tell the world what they did to me. And I actually was going to do it on stage that day. But my priest advised me not to. Um.

I don't know if I should have or shouldn't have. But I kind of wanted to call Paula White and Dan Patrick out to their face, front of the world. So this all leads up to the hearing list. Yes.

Anti-Semitism hearing.

“And so did you have contact with anybody else on the commission that day before the hearing?”

Uh, no. So the way it works is before the hearing. Once we request our witnesses, um. We get a whole 40 page, you know, run down of everything they're going to say, who they are, what they're going to speak about.

Kind of. So we can prepare to ask them questions and kind of go back and forth. Take notes and all that. So I realize I hadn't gotten the paper yet. I hadn't gotten the who was speaking and I had requested for Jewish Americans who are facing true anti-Semitism here in America.

And they were all four rejected. Why? Because they're not Zionists. You had to be a certain kind of Jew in order to be accepted. They were rejected.

They were rejected. By whom? By the commission, whoever calls the shots, I have no idea. It's so unorganized. I honestly don't even know how this commission works.

Unfortunately, it's embarrassing to say that to admit it. But I don't know who approves these. Um, I recommend a normfinkl scene. Um, who he's written books about. I mean, he is so knowledgeable on this.

Son of Holocaust survivors.

Who better?

Who better to speak on this than norm?

He is rejected. Who else? Um, Mikko Pollard. He's in Israeli. Um, citizen.

Um, raised there in Israel. And now he runs a Palestinian organization. Does tremendous work. Um, and then this guy David Spelvik in New York. He's out of New York.

And then I request that a rabbi. A Jewish rabbi who's been fighting against Zionism for over 40 years. What they call it, Toraju, I assume, a believer in the Torah. Yes, not the. He says he's at orthodox.

That's how he, yeah. So, yeah. There are a lot of those. I know a bunch of them. Oh, yeah.

They're all anti, um, Zionists. Yeah. Yeah.

So anyway, they were all rejected.

I requested two Palestinian Christian organizations to speak. Just to have a fair and balanced hearing. I wanted to be fair and balanced. Um, they were rejected too. Yeah.

Yeah, unfortunately. So I'm on the plane heading to DC before the hearing. I still haven't gotten the rundown of who's except who or who am I going to be hearing from. So I send an email. Hey, um, wondering where the rundown is. I need to prepare.

I'm on the plane. I need to prepare for this hearing tomorrow. Uh, okay. Yeah. We'll send it over soon.

Never sent it. Never got it from them. I had to. I had to email Kelly Shackleford and say, hey, Kelly. Did you receive any preparations for this hearing?

Oh, yeah. They sent in a couple of weeks ago. So they purposely did not send me the rundown. I, I believe. I believe they wanted to leave me out of it.

So I wasn't prepared. But I was prepared. She would know idea who's going to appear at the hearing. No idea. No idea.

“And the only way I knew norm wasn't accepted in me go and David and the rabbi is they told me.”

We weren't accepted. And it broke my heart because there is true antisemitism happening. Yeah, that's for sure. So most home security systems are built like the cable internet. They're tied to one address.

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Scared. I was here for my life.

“You know, most of the commissioners stay at the museum of the Bible because that's what the hearing is.”

I had requested that I stay there due to my safety. They rejected that. I stayed at a random hotel across the way. They wouldn't let you stay there. No.

I requested. I said, hey, I don't feel safe. You know, I'm traveling alone. No. No.

I said for my safety, I'd like to stay at the museum. That way I just go down the elevator and I'm there at the hearing. No. So I had a Muslim woman who has become a dear friend. Like a sister.

She's on the advisory board to this commission. She's one of the only Muslim representatives. So there's 30 advisory board members. And then there's the 12 commissioners. So I said, hey, Samir, I said, would you mind meeting me at my hotel and walking with me over?

Like, I don't really feel safe walking alone. Sure. Yeah. So she met me at my hotel lobby. And I got a text at 7.

30 in the morning. The hearing was supposed to start at 8. We were supposed to arrive at 7.45. And it was from Dan Patrick. And he said, meet me in this room for a meeting with me in Paula.

I was like, oh, you guys want to play dirty last hour. You want to play dirty? Last hour. You want to play dirty? Okay.

So I didn't respond. I'm not going to engage in that. I'm here for the religious liberty commission.

“And I knew this hearing was very important.”

So I did not respond. So as soon as I get to the museum of the Bible, go in the VIP entrance, back door, Samir is with me. Brittany Baldwin comes up. And she remembers.

She was one of them ones that the White House mentioned that they spoke to about my resignation. So I'm already on her. And she was a former Ted Cruz. Yes.

Yes. And so she came up to me and goes, oh, carry on. Dan Patrick wants to meet you in the room with Paula. And I said, I don't feel comfortable meeting with him alone. I'm sorry.

I'll come with her.

But I'm not coming alone.

She got very nervous. I was like, oh, um, okay. I'm going to let him know. And I said, okay. Let him know.

So she made Samir a go. And I went to the back with all the commissioners. And so I'm sitting back to that point. I'm like at a 10. Like I had probably have smoke coming out of my ears.

I'm at a 10 just hearing. Oh, it took her. This has been going on far too long. Like these people are relentless. And they thought that they could bully me.

A mom in California. But they didn't know what they were up against because I was not going to back down. So I walk in the back Dan Patrick is in there with Ben Carson.

“And I believe Paula White was already in there.”

And I'd walk right past. Go to the back.

Start, you know, preparing because thank God Kelly sent

me the the list. Um, and I'm just to myself and Eric Metaxis comes up. And he goes with wrong with you. And I go, really? Do you want to know what's wrong with me?

I said, were you told that you can't post on social media? While you serve on this commission or was it just me? I know your Zionists. So you're probably safe. But I'm not as innocent.

So I was told I can't post about my position on Israel. I can't post criticism of Israel. And he looks at me like I was crazy. And he's like, what? They told you you can't.

I said, yeah, they told me I can't post. I said, that's what's going on, Eric. That's what's going on. And now they're trying to do an intervention meeting right before the hearing with Dan and Paula and Ben.

I said, but I'm not going. And he goes, well, yeah.

Yeah, I mean, this is this is crazy.

I said, I know your Zionists and that's fine. You're entitled to your beliefs. I'm entitled to mine. But you can't force me to believe what you believe. This is a religious liberty commission.

We should all be diverse. We should not be the same, right, Eric? Yeah, right. So then Brittany comes back and she goes, okay. Dan said, Samira can come.

So I'm going to bring Samira up. I said, great. I'd like a witness there. So she was bringing Samira up.

“And I looked at Eric and I go, hey, I go, do you mind coming with me?”

I said, you remind me a lot of my dad. And my dad passed away a couple of years ago. I said, I would really appreciate it if you would come with me. So I don't have to come alone. And he goes, well, do I have to?

And I go, yeah, I'd like you to. Man up and come with me. So he came with me. So it's me, Eric and Samira. We walk in Ben Carson, Dan Patrick, Paula White and Brittany are in there.

And right away, it was like heated. And Dan looks at me and he goes, how do you think this religious liberty commission has been going, Carrie? I said it's been going great. I've really enjoyed being on this commission. And he goes, well, I just want to know, what are you going to say today?

Yeah, yeah. And I go, what am I going to say today? What are you going to say today, Dan? We're going to talk about a foreign country. Because whatever you're going to say, I'm going to say,

so if you're going to talk about Israel, I'm going to talk about Gaza. Okay. I'm literally talking to these politicians, like they're five year olds, like they're my kids. I'm like, you guys can't be this dumb. Like I know you think I'm dumb, but I'm not.

I'm smarter than I look, I guess. You guys thought I was dumb. You thought I was just going to be on this commission and play along to get along. Yeah, the beauty queen, we can bust around. Yeah, we can bust the dumb blonde around.

Throw her around, tell her what to do, nobody else. Yeah, so it got very easy. So what did he say when you said that? He goes, well, I mean, you posted yesterday at the airplane, they're tracking. Every move I make and they're seeing everything I post.

Which is good. I did that. Why do they care? Yeah. I don't want to miss her.

They're not on the program. Why is that a problem? They're obsessed with me. I don't know. So he goes and Brittany Baldwin is in the corner.

And she goes, yeah, I can pull it up. Here it is. You posted that you are so proud to serve on this religious liberty commission. And something about you're not going to be bullied by the Zionist supremacists. And you posted a free Palestine hashtag.

I literally started laughing. I go, you guys are ridiculous. I said, this is a hearing on anti-Semitism.

“And I said, oh, by the way, did you accept any of my witnesses that I recommended Dan?”

Brittany, Ben, Paula, did you accept them? No. Why not? Why not? They're Jewish Americans that are facing anti-Semitism.

Oh, you don't want them because they're not Zionists. Because they don't believe what you believe about Israel. They've been fighting against Zionism for 40 years. You don't want people like that? Oh, I got mad.

But I can't say. They didn't know what to say. And they go, whoa, you had reposted something saying that we weren't accepting. I said, yeah, you weren't accepting any of my witnesses. You accepted none of them.

And thank God, Kelly Shackl, for gave me the witness list.

I said, you guys didn't even send me the list.

So the speakers. You guys did that on purpose, didn't you? I called them all out by name. And then I look over at Eric. And I go, Eric, by the way, while we're here,

I said, were you told that you can't post on social media? Or was it just me, Paula?

“Did you have to get your post run through Paula?”

In order to post and use your social media private social media page? Or did you only tell me, Paula? I said, the audacity that it takes. I said, thank God, I know my rights. You don't control me.

And I said, and Paula, wait till the public finds out about this. They're not going to be happy with you. You tried to censor me while serving on a religious liberty commission. You tried to force me to believe what you believe. You forced me to adopt your religion.

And I won't do it. And that's why you're angry.

And then Dan got really weird.

And he's like, well, you've been posting about Charlie Kirk. It was so weird. Oh, they didn't like it when you posted about Charlie Kirk. No. They said, you've been questioning, you know, who assassinated him?

I go, oh, wow. God forbid, I question anything. I have to be a robot, right, Dan? I have to do it. I've been convicted by it.

Right. That's what I said. I said, this is an ongoing investigation. I've every right. And moreover, I don't think this kind of behavior puts people's concerns to rest.

It was very odd. It was very odd. It was very odd. You've lostness, cruelty, single-minded devotion to, like, some weird, Colty cause, like, that doesn't make me feel better.

Yeah. Shut up and obey. Yeah. Oh, they, but they didn't like that, huh? No, because I don't, I don't obey them.

They don't, they don't like that. Oh, I'm trying not to get, uh, okay. So, um, wow. So, how is this resolved? Yeah.

“So, the meeting was supposed to start at, I think it was supposed to start at eight thirty or nine.”

It ended up being late, like, the hearing started late because it was this heated, and Ben Carson sitting there half asleep. I'm like, come on, Ben. Like, what are you, what are you doing? Stand up and speak up for me.

You know, I'm being literally attacked by all these people. I've got Samira was with me, and she's so soft-spoken and sweet, and she stood up. And she's like, you know, there are stuff, there's suffering going on in Gaza. You guys realize that, right? I'm one of the only Muslims on this commission.

Like, can you not just accept that? Like, and then Eric was super rude to her. He's like, who are you and why are you here? It was so disrespectful. I felt so bad for her.

So, is there, is Eric Metaxas's position that there's no suffering in Gaza? Or that it's a moral to talk about. Well, it's, of course, justified, because we're trained that no Muslim is worth defending, right? How's that a Christian perspective?

Yeah. It's not, it's not a Christian perspective. And I feel I was the only one living out my Christian faith, saying, wait a second. There's suffering in Gaza.

There's a genocide happening. There's a Holocaust happening. Why am I not allowed to post about it? Oh, because it goes against the President. And your job is to protect the President.

And Dan did say that again in the intervention hearing.

“I remember he said, you know, you're just saying things that go against the President”

and to serve on this commission as a privilege. It's a privilege. And you're abusing that privilege.

Ultimately, it's what he said.

As I said, I know everybody, almost everybody in the room. And I like everybody, just as a default. So it's so distressing to hear this. It's so distressing to hear this, shocking to me. Yeah, changes how have you a lot of these people.

Many of them are owned, unfortunately. Well, that's obvious. And there's also clearly some, there's a supernatural quality to this. It can't pay most people enough to defend the murder of children. So I do think there's a way in which they're under a spell.

I know. I said, you know. And I will say, a very fantastic who wrote a very long book, Celebrating Martin Luther. Not as ionist, Martin Luther, the author of on the Jews

and their lies. And so it's a little weird. I don't know. Speaking of anti-Semitism. Yeah, we know what.

But anyway, whatever, I don't want to get the weeds. Okay, so the point of this was to get you within boundaries before the hearing opened. But that didn't work. No.

So then what happened in the hearing? So imagine, I'm now like, I mean, the anger that I had, I can't even describe because this has been building for months now. And so it was at an all-time high. And so when we left the meeting, went on stage,

I'm like shaking. I'm like shaking. I could cry. I could scream. Like, I'm just like, and I just, I just prayed.

And I'm like, okay, Lord, like, I need to just take home. I have to get through this hearing. This is a five hour hearing. And I gotta get through it. And I need to be poised.

I need to be respectful.

And I have to remain a Christian during this hearing.

I cannot give them a reason to say you're not a Christian. And so it just started. Thank you. Thank you for doing that. Thank you.

Thank you. Again, as I said the outset, people get, this has happened to me like a thousand times. She just gets so mad. That you say something cruel.

You overstay it. You believe you get personal. You're not a good representative of the faith at all. You become a terrible representative because you get angry. And it's been a constant struggle for me my whole life.

And I usually fail.

“That's why, again, I was just amazed by your testimony.”

Because it was so controlled.

You kept control, which is essential.

Man you succeeded. So then, okay, what happened? You go into the room and what happened? Yeah, so I go into the room and then, you know, they bring out the witnesses. The first witnesses and, you know, goes one after the other after the other.

And then it opens up to the commissioners to ask questions. And so right away, I'm thinking, okay, so this guy said, you know, I was, I faced, you know, anti-Semitism on a college campus. Okay, I'm genuinely sorry that you experienced that. And I voiced that.

I said, can we say that what happened to you is wrong? But then also say that the students who are peacefully protesting on these college campuses have every right to do that because they're protesting the killing of over 70,000 innocent civilians in Gaza. Can we not say the two things are wrong?

Can we not say, yes, what you experienced as a Jewish person not being able to, you know, access your classroom or whatever his situation was, I forget what it was, something like that.

“He ended up suing, I think, and winning.”

So, you know, good for him. So, whatever he experienced was true anti-Semitism, I guess. But then also, can you say that what's going on in Gaza is wrong? And he was like, no, no, no, no, no. No, there's no genocide in Gaza.

The genocide was on October 7th. And I'm thinking, these people are so lost. How can you not say that killing 70,000 innocent civilians is wrong? Just say it's wrong. Because you don't believe in universal principles.

You don't believe that every person was created by God. And has inherent worth. Yeah. Some people are valuable and others are not. I mean, that's where that comes from.

Is that? Yeah, they're superior. Yes, I just reject that. I do too. I do too.

“I don't think Christian life is more valuable than a Jewish life”

or a Muslim life or a Hindu life. I just don't think that. Yeah. So, it started today. So, you said that and he and this witness.

Yeah. Do you remember who? Yeah, Shaba's custom bomb. He was one of them. I don't remember the other names.

But he was the one that said, "Oh, no, there's no genocide in Gaza." The genocide was on October 7th. That's when I knew this hearing was going to get intense. Because this hearing was on anti-Semitism. And then I realized, well, we have to define the terms.

What is anti-Semitism? So, I quoted IHRA definition. I said, you know, if by saying the Jews killed Jesus, that is, according to IHRA, the definition of anti-Semitism. So, one of the pastors who was testifying,

I said, "Does it concern you?" Does it concern you as a pastor that certain parts of the Bible are going to be considered a Christian? The Christian parts. Yeah.

And he goes, "Well, the Jews did kill Jesus." And I said, "Do you realize you're making an anti-Semitic statement right now, Mr. Pastor?" This is the cognitive dissonance that these people have. They don't even know what the, I mean, IHRA is a pretty broad definition across most states.

So, it's pretty serious. And so, I was starting to think, "Okay, so is equating criticism of Israel being a Jew-heter?" So, I said, "Is anti-Semitism anti-Semitism?" Because I'm not a Zionist. That is nothing to do with someone's right to exist as a human being.

Of course, everybody has a right to exist by God. But anti-Semitism is anti-Semitism. And I pressed him and I said, "Yes or no?" Yes or no, on the record. And he said, "Yes."

And I was shocked. I was so disappointed that all the commissioners with big titles, big degrees.

They didn't chime in and say, "Wait a second."

Anti-apolitical ideology doesn't make you a Jew-heter. That's what I'm disappointed in. Well, the definition is inherently an attack on Christianity. I mean, by definition, if you write a definition that would ban the New Testament,

But I guess it's been adopted by various states. Yeah, that's the scary part. That's the scary part.

“In this state right now, in Florida, right now.”

That's what's scary.

I never thought being in California.

I was more free than people that live in Florida. But this is where it's going. It's very dangerous. And I was the only Christian that was willing. The youngest person in that room.

I'm just a dumb, blond, pageant girl. What am I? What do I know? No, it's common sense. Wait a second.

You're saying that if I don't believe that 1948 is real, and I said this, people can verify it. I don't believe as a Catholic, that 1948, the modern state of Israel, has any biblical fulfillment prophecy at all, meaning at all. I don't believe that.

And I very right not to believe that. I don't believe that. Why are you forcing me to believe that? Shut up, you anti-Semite? That's what I got back.

You're an ear-a-hateful bigot, if you don't believe that. I was disobedient to them. And that's all I was doing was asking questions. And the logical conclusion of what they were saying is yes. Anti-Semitism is anti-Semitism.

And I quoted the rabbi who didn't get to come that was denied. I quoted him. And he's been speaking out about Zionism for 40 years. He said, "So are you calling me? Are you a Jewish rabbi and anti-Semite now?

Is that where we're going with this?" So a Jewish rabbi is an anti-Semite now, according to their definition. This is a religious liberty commission hearing from the president.

And nobody chimed in and said, "Wait a second, I have a problem with that."

That's dangerous. Let's not. Let's not say that. So a Jewish rabbi is being called an anti-Semite. And then I said, "I'm a Catholic."

I don't believe 1948 political state of Israel has any biblical prophecy fulfillment, meaning it all. So does that make me an anti-Semite? Are all Catholics anti-Semites according to you? And essentially it was yes. The tape is almost unbelievable.

I'm so glad that you forced this and I'm so glad that you revealed these people for who they really are. This is in a minor doctrinal point. This is like the very center of the question of religious liberty. Yes. If you're not allowed to believe that, then you don't have religious liberty.

Then the first amendment isn't real. It also, this is an attack on traditional Christianity, so it has to be defended by Christian leaders. I think the right to believe what you say you believe, which is not hateful, of course, in the slightest. No.

“It is inconvenient if you want to use American troops to fight Israel's wars.”

What kind of responses you get from the other commissioners at this?

After? During. A lot of them just stayed silent. They were too afraid, I think. Did a single one of the other 11 rise to defend your right to say what you were saying?

Of course not. No, they have all corporations to protect and businesses protect and, you know, big donors to please. So why would they? I was literally the only free person on that stage. The mom in California.

I did it. It ended with. There was a guy in the audience that kept heckling and I eventually looked over at Dan. He needs to be removed. Yeah, he kept heckling me.

That's yelling things at me, booing me. I noticed there was a lot of Jewish rabbis in the audience. I don't know. There wasn't a lot of people in the audience. Normally, it's filled because anybody can go.

Right. But there was a lot of booze. Every time I would say I'm a cath, like boo. It was very hostile. I felt like it was my voice wasn't welcome there, obviously.

And then they had the audacity to interrupt me when I said,

“So are you claiming that all Catholics that are not Zionist or anti-Semlets?”

Is that what you're saying? And he's like, well, I'm going to interrupt. I'm going to interrupt right now, Kerry. Why? Why?

I said this discussion is very important. This is very important. And what did he say? He let us continue and we were just going back and forth back and forth with these witnesses. And I was very respectful.

Very respectful. I didn't raise my voice. I didn't get angry. I laughed a few times. Told, cause, uh, the subhost cast in bomb that we should get coffee.

Or, you know, we need to be having these discussions. We need more speech, not less. They didn't want my voice. So after the hearing was over, there was a, my priest was there. He came and watched and he was very proud of me.

There was another orthodox priest there. And he said, I'm so proud of you. I can't believe you did this. I said it, it had to be done. It had to be done.

What were the other commissioners like after the hearing?

And I haven't spoken to any of them since.

Really? Yeah. So this immediately goes up on the internet.

“Um, what's the next communication you have from the White House or the commission?”

So I got a text the next day. And it was from Dan Patrick. He tried calling me, but I didn't answer. I thought I would just get it in writing. And he said, um, I tried calling you, you know, your voice mailbox is full.

I'm letting you know, effective immediately that you have been removed from the religious liberty commission. Did he explain why? I could, I, I honestly, I couldn't believe it. I was like. Back in 2009, I stood up for my faith.

And now I'm doing the same thing. This is what got me on this commission. Why would I be removed? What is going on? This is the United States of America.

Haven't we made progress? No. Don't we have religious freedom in this country? You can't express it honestly. And respectfully.

And civilly. Like, what is going on? I, I literally just cried when I got it.

“I'm like, this is so sad for my children, from, for my grandchildren.”

You can see where it's going to. Yeah. Yeah. And so he said at the very end of the text, it was a short text. This is my decision.

The audacity. The audacity that he has to claim he has authority to make this, this firing. This is my decision. No, Dan. You're an equaled mine.

You have no authority. I don't think Dan's making any of his own decisions in general. Yeah. None of those people are. No, of course not.

So that's my decision. And I will say Bishop Baron and Cardinal Dolan were not there that day. They were not at the, they were not at the hearing that day. I, I would have loved for them to be there. That would have been great.

So, you as I recall, because I was watching all this from afar, said, nope. Can't remove me. Yeah. Because you didn't appoint me.

Nope. I, I did a little investigating online. And I, I, I researched, you know, this, how this commission was established in the executive order.

And I realized, wait a second.

The only person that has the authority to remove me is the president himself. Did you talk to Trump at any point? No, I tried to get a phone call with him. I tried to contact, you know, some of his family members that I'm close with. I mean, I've been a friend of his for almost 20 years.

I've been to both inaugurations. I mean, you have his personal cell phone. I'd call him. I mean, we're, we're buddies. He was like a second father to me. Um, nobody would respond back.

So, Dan sent that text. I sent a text back. And I said, you have no authority to remove me, Dan. And then, that was it. Uh, I noticed that a number of members of the commission began attacking you

as an anti-summit. Uh, who did that? And what did they say? Eric Metaxas did that. Um, I think he called me. I don't remember the names that he called me horrible names.

But he called you names. Oh, yeah, yeah. Which was so sad to me because I'm like, you were with me in that hearing. You heard that I had to vet everything to this, like, you know what they're doing to me is wrong. Yeah.

And you don't have the courage to stand up for my religious freedom. Just do your job, Eric. And then to call you a bigot, an anti-summit. Oh, yeah.

“Yeah, that's what they do, though, because once they say that.”

I know, but everyone knows Eric Metaxas. I mean, that's like behavior. Um, and I know that Eric has a lot of personal problems. And I assume that's what this is about. But it's still, uh, it's just one of the most shocking things I've ever seen.

It's so sad.

I never called you and said, hey, care, I'm going to call you an anti-summiter.

Let's talk about the views that you have that I believe are anti-summitic. Let's talk this through. No. No. And Dan Patrick didn't do that either.

No. Nope. They didn't want to have a dialogue. That is the most disgraceful behavior I can imagine. Yeah.

It really is. It really is. Because out of all the people that Trump could have appointed for this position, he appointed me. And I, I, at first I felt unqualified, but now I feel I'm one of the most qualified, because I am protecting religious freedom.

Even fates that I don't hold firm to. I'm protecting the Jewish rabbi. I'm protecting the Muslim woman on the commission. Her religious freedom. And my own, of course.

And the Jewish scientists, by the way. Yeah. And everybody's. Because this is a universal principle to applies to every human being. It's not in the reintroduction of identity politics by this administration.

Is the, the single saddest thing.

I think everyone voted against it.

“I think every person who voted for Trump was like, no, we'll not every person.”

But most people are like, identity politics blows up the country. Mm-hmm. It destroys any cohesion. You start thinking about everything in terms of my group. And things fall apart.

And the left has pushed that for 50 years. And now all of a sudden you've got Paul White and Dan Patrick. And Eric Metaxas of all people pushing identity politics in a way that will totally wreck the country. Come on now.

I know. And it degrades the Christian message and into something unrecognizable and evil. Yeah, that's what it is. No, I know.

So did any member of the commission reach out to you any of the other eleven to say,

wow, you know, you're not a Zionist there for your antisemite. This is horrible. I'm sorry. We're on your side. Not one. Are you serious? Not one.

No. In fact, I reached out to a few of them who are friends of mine who I felt. I could trust Kelly Shackelford. I reached out to Cardinal Dolan, Bishop Baron. I reached out to Bishop Cordaleone and San Francisco who's on the advisory board. And I said, hey.

I feel like I'm off sheep surrounded by wolves and I need a shepherd. Can can you help? And a lot of them, I think Tucker, if I'm being honest, are too scared. Did any, I know two of the three. I know Baron whom I respect is very smart and I know Dolan is just a politician.

But very charming. I'll say, Dolan is very charming. Who doesn't like Dolan, everyone likes Dolan. But so I know two of the three and they didn't speak up in your defense or in the defensive religious liberty. No. Bishop Baron, we were texting a little bit yesterday and I said, I'm going on Tucker.

I know your friends with Tucker. I said, I would love to know. Do you support the commission, removing me from my religious freedom or where do you stand? You know, and he wrote me back and he was very nice and, you know, he agreed with my stance. That we as Catholics don't have to believe in some, you know, prophecy fulfillment being fulfilled with 1948 Israel. Like, that's literally what I said.

So I think he, I know he agrees with me. I mean, it's, it's most Catholics agree with me. But to include a political statement in the Catholicism, which is basically what they're trying to do. I have to believe in the modern secular state of Israel. I can't be a Christian. Like, that's a foundational thing.

People have been martyred over less than that. Like, no, this is my faith. I'm not going to betray it. And all of a sudden, you're being told that to be a Christian.

“You have to be a Zionist. You have to be on board with a political program.”

Oh, yeah. And I must support a genocide. That's a requirement, too. And I cannot speak out about it if I see it or hear about it. I just got this from our producer.

So I just want to interrupt your amazing story, which I find so upsetting.

It's my hardest pounding. This is a note I just got. As we speak, meaning right now, as we're doing this taping, there's an anti-Semitism symposium happening in DC. Ted Cruz, Tom Cotton, and the rest of the usuals are speaking.

Dan Patrick was just on stage attacking Kerry, you. He said she was guilty of two things on the day of the religious liberties hearing. First, he said any talk of Gaza is a political matter and has nothing to do with religion. He says she was off base mentioning the war.

Two, he said it was unacceptable that she went against Seth Dillon when she denied his claim that Candace is anti-Semitic. I want to go through these in just a second. Last night, Dan Patrick bragged that he fired Kerry and he got around of applause.

Let me just say this is like a description of the end stage of something. This is the end of Christian Zionism. This kind of behavior will look back on this. Like, every one of these moral panics reaches its full fruition at a certain point where it's a peak crazy.

I guess that's the phrase. And it's like they're arresting people for complimenting a woman's dress. That was the kind of peak crazy of me too. Black Lives Matter, like kissing black people's feet. It's like two nuts, right?

“That's what this is for Christian Zionism.”

This is so wow. That I think it's over. That's just my guess. Okay. So let me just any talk of Gaza is a political matter.

Let me throw that to you. What's your response to that? Any talk of Gaza is a political matter. So why was this hearing? I actually tell it how many times they talked about Israel, October 7th.

I had to stop counting. So we were talking about a foreign country. And I look over at Dan and I'm like, we're talking about a foreign country.

Like, what is the purpose of this hearing?

I thought it was a hearing on true anti-Semitism in America. But it was hijacked by Dan Patrick and Paula White, and whoever denied my four Jewish Americans that weren't welcome to speak, because they're not Zionists. It was hijacked by those people. So what we're getting at is if you criticize Israel, you're done for.

They want to destroy you. And if you dare to speak out about Gaza. Just destroy you. Oh yeah. They want to kill you.

They want to kill you. Got that. Yeah. I've had some things I'll just say. Hey, Dan Patrick, rest here defense is Eric Metaxis.

No, no, no, no. He's taking pride in his removal of Gary. So they're conflating. I mean, I would be delighted to remove politics entirely from religion.

“I believe strongly in separation of church and state, because I don't want my faith to be corrupted by political leaders.”

I don't want my religion to be political. Jesus didn't spend any time talking about politics. They wanted him to come and liberate Jerusalem as a political leader. He refused and rode in on a donkey and then allowed himself to be tortured to death. So like, I'm with him.

Let's take the politics out. But they're the ones who conflate Christian faith with a political agenda of BB Netanyahu. Yeah. Yeah. Who, who BB is basically an atheist, I think.

Right? I mean, I don't think he's a religious person at all. Well, he doesn't keep to music law. We know that. Yeah.

There may be, you know, who knows, like I thought your interview with Mike Huckabee was amazing, by the way.

That's just, it was, it was very sad though. It was very sad. It was, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Thank you for that way, too. He's been attacking me ever since. Yeah. Okay. So then to the second point, Dan Patrick said it was unacceptable that you went against Seth Dillon,

when she denied his claim that Candace is anti-Semitic. Who is Seth Dillon? What is this? Why are they obsessed? Actually, your name was mentioned at the hearing.

I don't know if you know that. I didn't. Yeah. But Seth Dillon is the Babylon B guy. So he was speaking on behalf of anti-Semitism.

He's a Christian. But, and I guess, I don't even know what Christianity means anymore.

If Christianity is defending a genocide in Gaza, that's scary.

Yep. That's not my religion. And so these people, they call themselves Christians. I don't believe they are. But Seth Dillon was on the idea.

Defend the murder of innocence, period. I don't care who they are. I don't care what country. I don't care if they're Palestinians or Jews. Me too.

I don't think any faithful Christian would defend shooting up a raven Southern Israel. That's disgusting. As a Christian October 7th, parts of what we're disgusting. Gaza is disgusting. I mean, like, it's a principle that doesn't change over time.

You can't kill innocence. And like, if you think you can kill innocence, we're worshipping different gods. Thank you. That's exactly right.

We are. I don't know what Christianity they're a part of. I honestly don't. You're getting me so worked up. I was just sorry.

I said, dear, how's that? So many interviews in my life. But this one is because I feel like this is foundational. It is. It is.

It's a grave injustice. So Seth Dillon of the Babylon be just for, of course, no Seth Dillon. But I just want to make sure people know we're talking about. He runs a comedy site or something. But he has become.

He's one of the people who tried to bully Charlie Kirk. Yeah. And to kicking me off stage. Mm-hmm. He's a political enforcer.

And you had an exchange with him. I did. Yeah, I asked him to his face. I said, you know, Charlie was being called. Since we're having a hearing on anti-Semitism.

Charlie Kirk was being called an anti-Semite. I know. And I asked him to his face.

“That Dillon, I said, would you condemn that he was being called an anti-Semite?”

I mean, Charlie was an anti-Semite? He was not. And he got a little-- And neither am I. Neither am I.

He's our slanders. Yeah. Charlie was called an anti-Semite a lot. Yeah. And I talked to him about it a lot.

I know a lot about this topic. I never talked about it. But I know a lot about it. Because I was at the center of it. Because the debate was, should he cancel me?

Yes. I think this December. And he wouldn't. And one of his last texts we've ever seen was about this exact question. So, and Seth Dillon was one of the thugs trying to force Charlie.

You know that for a fact? Of course. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And so, we're trying to force Charlie to cancel me.

And other things, it's not about-- I just happened to be the guy that they were very, very focused on. But so, Seth Dillon is asked by you.

“Would you condemn the attacks on Charlie Kirk as an anti-Semite?”

Yeah. And he said, yeah. Charlie wasn't an anti-Semite.

Thank you for saying that publicly.

And then I asked him about the handtons. I said, we'll just go there. I mean, we're already going there. So, let's just go there. So, what happened at the handtons?

And that was a meeting that Charlie had with, among many others, Seth Dillon. I think Bill Ackman was there. I think he paid for it. I could be wrong here.

I'm no expert. But I remember very well because Charlie came right to my house after that. So, we talked about it. Wow. And so, what did he say?

He said that Charlie was making statements saying that you can't-- I'm paraphrasing. But that, you know, you can't criticize Israel. You will be destroyed if you do. My home.

Have any of these people ever read the prophets in what we call the Old Testament? The Jewish prophets? Talk about tough on Israel. Holy smokes. I read some of that stuff and I'm like, "Give Israel a break, Isaiah.

Jeremiah, pull back a little bit." You're pretty tough on Israel. Do they ever notice that? I mean, what's going up? Yeah.

Okay. Okay. So--

“And then he mentioned that's what it was.”

So he called Candace and Antisemite. They're obsessed. Tucker. They're obsessed with the label. You're an antisemite.

As soon as they attach that to you, you're done. They shove you in the box.

So when Moses goes up a second time to Mount Sinai and says to God, "Please kill me."

These people are too annoying. I can't deal with it. Is that antisemitism? What are they even talking about? Yeah.

They're obsessed with it. And so they brought up-- I think either, I brought up you-- oh, yeah. I'm not sure who brought up you, but I remember saying you're obsessed with calling Candace and Tucker antisemites. And it really has to stop.

It really has to stop, Seth. Yeah. What did he say? He got very frustrated. He got very uncomfortable.

He was squirmish. He was very frustrated. He's not a man at peace. He's a very uncomfortable. Yeah.

And then after-- that was over, we actually went back stage.

And I had a-- probably like a 10-minute-- well, everybody else was on stage still.

I went to the bathroom and then I talked to him. And we had a pretty good exchange. I said, "Are you Jewish?" And he goes, "No, I'm a Christian." I said, "Oh, my gosh.

I thought you were Jewish." He goes, "No, I said, "Okay." And I said, "Well, thank you for that dialogue out there." I think it's very important. You know, I said, "Tarly was being called an antisemite.

And I wanted to know about the Hampton's meeting. I was told that they were bullying him and certainly were bullying him." Yeah. And I'd said, "Thank you for clarifying that." But since then, he keeps saying that he wasn't one of the ones that was, you know,

bullying Charlie or calling him an antisemite or I asked him.

“I said, "Seth, who was morally black-mailing Charlie?”

Who was it? Just say the name." So the people that were doing that, because Charlie was very upset on Megan Kelly. He said, "They're morally black-mailing me. They're calling me an antisemite, attacking my character.

Who are these people? I think we have a right to know. Who are these thugs?" I talked to him about it many times. And he was very upset about it.

And I've really tried not to use the memory of, you know, a dead friend to make a political point. So a lot of other people have not restrained themselves. And they're constantly talking about my best friend Charlie. And he thought this, he thought that.

But I know a lot about this topic, of course, because I was at the center of it. Because it was my speech that they were mad about. He was protecting your speech. He certainly was. A great risk to himself.

And great risk. He lost millions of dollars, as he said. Because he refused to cancel me. So of course, I know all that. And I haven't gone on and on about it, because I don't like calling attention to myself.

And I think there's something ugly about talking about someone who can't speak up for himself once he's passed. I just don't like it. Because in my culture, that's not acceptable. But it's just a lie. It's they're lying.

And I know that for a fact, because he sat in my living room and told me about it. So like stop lying. I can't deal with it. And he was making me two minutes. So now, the empathetic is saying that because you wouldn't denounce Candace as an anti-Semite,

you went too far. So that's now in the Niacene Creed. No, is it? What did the council of Niacene?

“Add this part, kind of retroactively where you have to denounce a podcaster or you can't be a Christian.”

Or sure about our religious tradition. Like what is going on? It's all right. And you know this well. They want to call you an anti-Semite.

And then once they put that on you and shove you in that box. Oh, I know. They want everybody else to come to the town square. And they want to watch you get publicly lynched. And then they want everybody around to denounce you.

Repetory to you being arrested because if it's against the law to have certain views,

“and they claim that you have those views,”

you're in violation of the law. Yeah. So I mean, let's be real. This is like in in Europe. And in Canada, in Australia, in New Zealand,

lots of people go to jail for having views that Seth Dylan doesn't like. Lots of people go to jail. Oh, a lot. So it's not like this hasn't happened. It's the law in Europe.

Yeah. It's the law in Australia. It's the law in New Zealand. It's the law in Canada. We're in America.

Yeah, well. This is insane. I'm just saying lots of people. They're a person over that. But they're obsessed with getting everyone else.

You've experienced this denounce Tucker. Yeah. Just in yourself. Call him an anti-Semite. Agreed with us around.

I'm so grateful to be old because I just don't care. But I do care about the country. A lot. And I see where this is going. So they want you to denounce Candice Owens.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Just like they want Megan Kelly to denounce Candice Owens. Oh, I know. But they don't own me.

They can tell me who's like the most moderate person who's ever lived. Yeah. Megan Kelly who really likes Israel and all. Or for friends or Jewish and like, Megan Kelly is, there's like no world in which Megan Kelly is an anti-Semite.

I don't even entertain the idea. I don't even, I don't even say I'm not an anti-Semite. Like I'm so sick of that. I've been through this before with the whole gay marriage. Then you're a bigot.

You're a homophobic. Call me whatever you want. I'm just a Christian. Okay. And if being a Christian now is an anti-Semite.

That's what I have a problem with. Well, that's the whole point. That's the whole point. That's the whole point. That's the whole point.

Being a sincere Christian of New Testament, believing Christian makes you an anti-Semite. Therefore we can't have Christianity. Because that's the real enemy. Of course.

So, um, okay, you come out and you say, after Dampatric fires, you fires you. Hey, Dampatric, you can't fire me. Because you didn't appoint me. This is a presidential appointment.

And the president hasn't weighed in. So where are we now on that question? Good question. So I hadn't been on X in years. So I got on X after this all happened.

Oh, that improved your life a lot, Gary. That's been interesting. So I've been posting, obviously, how sad I have to defend myself against this insanity. So the other day, it was recently.

It was about a week ago. I went on and I was looking for Mary. The, the designated federal officer from the, I wanted to look at an old email that I had sent her. So I typed in my mail and my mail.

Mary. Well, all of a sudden a Mary scroll popped up. An email from Mary's pro. And I thought, well, that name sounds familiar. That's the woman back in August.

Who tried to get me to resign. I go, what is she mailing me about? She sent it on February 12th. The hearing was on the night.

“So just a few days after I think I sent the Dan Patrick.”

You don't have the authority to remove me on the 11th. So she sent it the next day. But I hadn't gotten it. It must have gone to like spam or some junk mail. So I never got it.

I would have never seen it.

Had I not looked for Mary. The designated federal officer, Mary. Mary Margaret. So it comes up and it says on behalf of the president of the United States. I'm emailing you to let you know that you have been removed from the religious

Liberty Commission effectively. Thank you for your service. Mary's brawl. It's really dark. Yeah.

Have you talked to Trump? No. No. I reached out. And was there any explanation?

No explanation. So I wrote her back. And I said, oh, Mary's brawl. You're the same Mary that tried to get me to step down resign and August. I left out a very important part, Tucker.

This is good. At the first hearing, the president was there. Trump was there. At the first hearing, remember Mary called me to get resign. Yeah.

And then I didn't. Well, I saw the president. And we got to have spent some time with him before the hearing. So we were shaking his hand. And he looks at me in the eyes and he goes, hey, carry.

He goes, I want you to know something. He goes, I took care of it.

“And he goes, you know what I'm talking about, right?”

He said that. And I said, yes, Mr. President. I know what you're talking about. Thank you so much. And he goes, I, you know, I know the real you.

I know the real you. And basically, he told him to leave me alone.

I thought that was incredible.

I mean, he was doing the right thing. How can you kick a religious person off a religious commission? It's ridiculous. This was an August. So he had my back.

So I thought, oh, I'm, I'm good. I'm good. He doesn't support them trying to kick me off. So when I got this email week ago from Mary's bro, I said, you try to remove me in August.

So I don't really take you serious.

“But maybe, maybe she is a legitimate person.”

Spokesperson for the president. But I would think that the president would actually send a letter. Removing me if this was actually his decision. And I was told from someone very high up in the White House that they spoke to him on the phone. And he was wrestling with this.

He's like, what do I do? They unsaying this. And I really like Carrie. And so I don't know. I honestly don't know.

Have you heard from the commission? No. Have you heard from the commission since then? No. Have there been more hearings?

The hearing is coming up next Monday.

And you've not been invited. No. And it makes me sad because that's the hearing on a religious freedom and health care. All the mothers that don't want to vaccinate their kids. Has any to this day?

“So we're in the second week of March as we're taking this?”

Has any member of the commission spoken up in your defense? No. Not one. Not one. What about Barron, Bishop Barron, and Carmen's on?

I tried to get them to make a public statement about it, but I don't think they want to be involved. Why? I don't think they want to be called an anti-Semite because they're speaking out for someone who was called an anti-Semite.

That's where we're at.

But the principal at stake here, and I like, I respect Barron for sure.

I do too. It's very smart. Actually, very smart. But the principal at stake is a doctrinal principle. It would seem to me.

And so your core position is that being a Zionist signing onto the Zionist project is not a prerequisite for being a Christian. It's not part of the Nicene Creed, actually. And you were fired for saying this, that's your real crime. And I would think that any theologian or Christian leader, really, any Christian, would

want to just pipe up and say, you know, maybe I love BB. Maybe I love what he's done in Gaza. Yeah. But, like, as a point of fact, you don't need to sign on to a political program in order to be a Christian.

Yeah. And to serve on a religious liberty. Of course. That's like basic. But no one will say that.

No. But I don't want to make a public statement about this. I believe. Really revealing and the sad to say that. It is sad.

But, you know, I can handle it. I guess I'm, you know, 38 year old mom. But you can't allow non-Christians to determine what Christian doctrine is. Right. It's just what happened during Vatican II in point of fact.

I say that it is a non-catholic, I shouldn't even get involved. But that's literally what happened. Non-Christians, like, oh, you're not allowed to believe that. So they changed Christian doctrine. And I just think that is.

Well, it's dangerous. It's very dangerous. Yeah. You're supposed to be trying to emulate Jesus who paid with his life for disagreeing with the temple authorities and you're supposed to be representing Jesus' word on earth.

So like the stakes are really high. So why not just come out and say she has every right to stand up for her religious beliefs and she shouldn't be removed. Let just say that. Right.

She shouldn't be removed for her religious convictions. Shouldn't every commissioner believe that? If they're actually doing their job.

“Why am I the only one doing my actual job, which is protect religious freedom for all religions?”

It's very disappointing. And I think a lot of these commissioners are on this to have access, because let's be honest. It's, you feel cool being invited places, the fancy invites. I'm going to the White House. But I've said over and over again, I would rather die.

I would rather die than deny my faith. And I'm standing up for my faith by doing this. Because I will not submit to a country that is committing genocide in Gaza. Full stop. That is the fact.

And they want me to deny my eyes and deny what I've seen and what I know and my heart as a Christian. I cannot do that. I would rather die. Well, that's one of the most disappointing stories I've ever heard. And it hits me, especially hard again, because I know most of the people involved.

And like up on show them. So that's really, really sad. Tell us about the reaction to this hearing outside of the religious liberty commission.

Is anyone on your side? It's been amazing.

“So Catholics for Catholics, do you know John Yepp, the president of Catholics?”

He actually helped Trump get the Catholic vote in 2024.

They've done amazing for the Catholic, you know, for politics in general.

And so they came out right away and it was beautiful Tucker. And they said, we are inviting Carrie to Washington, DC, and we're giving her the Catholic champion award. One of the attacks on you. And I think I saw it from people on the commission is you're not really a Catholic, because you just converted Catholicism.

So like how dare you speak for Catholics? Yeah, pretty low thing to say about someone. Very, very, very low. Yeah. And I'm not misremembering that.

No, that's exactly right. They're questioning how long I've been a Catholic. But what's crazy Tucker is that I left, I used to be a Zionist. I used to be a dispensational Christian for my entire life. Really?

Yeah. Yeah. I went to the evangelical, Paul White type of churches, my entire life. Oh, wow.

And I started studying about dispensationalism and I was thinking, wait a second.

How can they just interpret scripture however they want? Twist it, manipulate it, and say those who bless Israel will be blessed. And if you don't bless BB, you're going to be cursed according to Lindsey Graham. I started thinking, this isn't sane. So I started studying the early church fathers and I started studying, you know, what they taught.

And it led me to the Catholic church. Literally, like learning about dispensationalism led me to the early church fathers. And then I became Catholic. And so I'm not an idiot. I know I know what the Catholic church teaches.

We are the new Israel. That's what the church teaches. We are the fulfillment of the old Israel. I mean, look at Jesus fulfilled it all on the cross. There's he got, when he said, it is finished.

The old was completely done. There is the new covenant now. Those who are in Christ. That is the new people of God. It is very clear.

This isn't even debatable. I don't even know why we're having this debate.

“Which is why Bishop Baron and Cardinal Dolan should be like, yeah, that's what we believe.”

We are the new Israel. The land means nothing anymore. Yes, it's the holy land. But that's not some biblical, what's scary Tucker is these people like Paula White and Ted Cruz and Dan Patrick. They believe that there will be the dome of the rock will be torn down.

And they will rebuild that third temple. They're saying it now. Look at Pete Exit. There will be a rebuilding of this temple. Oh, I know.

It is heretical and it is anti-Christian. I know that. Because they're going to bring in the animal sacrifices again. And the most anti-Semitic thing that they believe is that two thirds of the Jews are going to be slaughtered. That's what these people believe.

They're just manipulating them and using them. They don't really care. Oh, I. Everything you've said is true. I mean, Jesus describes himself as the temple.

Yes. So he is the temple. Well, he says that. He is the land that was slain. The final sacrifice.

So, yeah. I'm a little confused. Okay. So I understand that there are people who believe in the theology that you just described right there. I think it's wrong.

I don't think it makes internal sense. I don't think it's Christian. But I think there are a lot of really decent people who believe it. I know some really decent people for sure that I agree with a lot of other issues. But they sincerely believe it.

The Catholic Church does not. The Catholic Church is doctrine.

“It's not something you have to guess about.”

You can look it up online. And it's been pretty consistent for a couple thousand years. So like why in the world would Catholic leaders who don't believe this? Why wouldn't they just say we don't believe this is Catholics? Because again, you can check it online if you want.

I'm totally confused. How are they controlled? I think that they don't want to face what you faced. And what Candice has faced. And what Megan has faced.

And what I've faced and Marjorie too. It's shut up. You hateful bigot. And we're going to destroy you. They don't want that.

Really? Because we're promised that by Jesus in the New Testament. Think of your cross. A hundred percent. I was interviewing this.

Amazingly Anglican Bishop in Jordan last month. And I'm Anglican.

So it was just amazing to find up like a truly Christian Anglican.

It was wonderful. It was the best thing I did all year. But so I interviewed this man. And we're talking off camera. And I said, you know, how often you spit on or spit at in Jerusalem.

Or you're a native of my church or whatever.

And I'm like, I don't. How can you deal with that? Someone spit on me. I don't know what I would do. Because I'm not a great Christian.

And I'm having all these fancy stuff. And two of someone spit on me like I would not respond well. And he said, oh, no, I feel blessed. Jesus was spit on in Jerusalem.

“And I thought, wow, that's the Christianity I believe in right there.”

That is right. That is except the persecution that you're promised. You are promised persecution. Yeah. It's not ambiguous.

You're not promised lots of money. Sorry, Paul, wait. I know. You're promised persecution by the world that hates you. Because the world hates Jesus.

I was so inspired by that, made me teary hearing someone sick as he meant it. This was off camera. Having a cup of coffee. And so like considering that is the faith. Yeah.

I don't really get Christian leaders who are like, oh, I don't want to deal with the blowback. What? Jesus himself is promising you like what happened to him, which is being tortured to death.

I know. And I don't want to be criticized on Twitter. Yeah, look at the disciples. I think they, I think they were all. All but murdered.

One maybe. Okay. Yeah. So anyway. I doesn't make any sense to me.

And murdered very viciously. Oh, my gosh. Horrificly. And so we now have leaders that don't want to even suffer any discomfort at all, Tucker.

They don't want to be named called because that would hurt them too much. They would hurt their feelings. So they're going to hide behind a 38-year-old mom and whisper, keep going. I'm praying for you.

Oh, do you have people said that? Oh, yeah. I mean, I, my priest, I've had several priests that I've spoken to.

“I've asked, you know, can you make a public statement?”

Oh, I don't make public statements. I get people to heaven. Okay, no. Okay. That's okay.

So hide behind the mom. And I'll take the bullets. Yeah. I'll take the bullets while the shepherds are running for the hillside. Must be nice.

It's not nice. But no judgment on them. No judgment. Well, cowardice is its own punishment.

You know, I think your wife's never going to respect you ever again.

You can't respect yourself. I think your wife's attracted to you and your coward. I don't think so. I know. But I will say to answer your question.

I've had incredible men Catholic men. I'll spoken men stand up for me and several priests. I will say there has been priests. I have one that's coming to the event next week in DC, the gala. And I'm sorry.

I got emotional.

“But I'm like, if it wasn't, I mean, could you imagine going through all this?”

And then they come out and they say, not only are we going to honor you. But invite you to this. But we're going to give you this award. You're going to get the Catholic champion award. You're a champion, Carrie.

I'm thinking, oh, my gosh. Thank you. Thank you for this. And since then, they've had tremendous blowback. People pulling out.

Oh, I can't believe you'd have that anti-Semite. I mean, this is where we're at. Because I asked. Really they had people pull out. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. They've had people, you know, attack them. Oh, I can't believe you would have Carrie and we'll can't. This will be there too. You know, you can't have Carrie and Candace.

That's like two anti-Semites in one room. We can only have one. I guess. I don't know. So yeah, it's very unfortunate.

It's it's the public lynching and then making everyone around watching. Say, yeah, they're an anti-Semite. And I'm going to distance myself from them. Because I don't want to be labeled an anti-Semite. This will all be over soon.

We've reached peak crazy. I felt like that hearing. The response to you. Was that, you know, that's as bad as it's. It's going to get without pushback.

I think you really woke people up. Well, they're desperate though, which is scary. Oh, I know. Because they will try to do everything to destroy you. I've heard that.

Yeah. You know it. Carrie, thank you for doing this. I appreciate it.

That was, that was an amazing story.

Thank you, Tucker. Appreciate you having me.