Israel’s Purging of Christians From the Holy Land and the Plot to Keep Americans From Noticing

No, not at all.

“This story is like a story with you, I can't really do it.”

Wow, that's what it means.

Yeah, exactly. This story is like a story that you understand. Because the story is about the whole life. You can't do it, you can't do it. No, no, I don't feel like a story.

A story is like a story. With this story, you have to test it. There's something about true things that just sound different. When you hear something that's true, there's a different pitch or tone or vibration.

It's got to hurt to describe. But when someone says something true, even if you don't exactly understand what it means, it sticks with you. The truth rings differently from lies.

And recently, for a lot of different reasons, most of because of the pressure being exerted on our society, you're hearing a lot of lies, but you're also hearing a lot of true things. And some of them are about the nation of Israel.

And their obvious things, like does the United States have an actual interest in supporting Israel unequivocally? Is Israel really our closest ally? Is there a good reason for this?

“Why are so many members of Congress taking money from a foreign government lobby?”

Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. These are all true things, they point to the truth. They are questions that evoke true answers. And the response to this has been very, very telling. The response has been shouting and screaming accusations.

It has not been engagement. Almost nobody on the other side of the debate has said, for sure, let me calmly explain why Israel's our greatest ally. And we should say, fund the killing in Gaza. Here's why it's good for the United States,

to spend this much money on Israel's what this point, seven simultaneous wars, a seven front war. We're paying for it. Why is that a good idea for the United States? How is it morally justifiable?

And what's the purpose of this, exactly? Is it really to defend the country or is it to expand its territory? No one will answer those questions. And that is why simply you're hearing this very loud, conversation about anti-Semitism,

which all of a sudden is everywhere. It's America's biggest problem. Well, there is, of course, anti-Semitism. And it's wrong.

It's always wrong to hate people for their blood.

There's no question about that.

“But is anti-Semitism really America's biggest problem?”

Well, no, it's not even in the top 100 biggest problems. Bad as it is. You're hearing about it as we to shut down, truthful, honest questions. And that's, of course, the dynamic.

And it's very clear to anybody who's paying attention. The problem with this dynamic is that it can inspire a lot of anger and, in fact, a lot of hate. People are getting matter and matter in matter on this topic. I'm both sides.

And you have to wonder why that is. Why doesn't someone to stand up and say, let's have a reasonable discussion about this? Let's just lay it out there. And non-emotional terms, non-hateful terms without attacking

an entire group of people, any group of people. Whether it's the Jews or the Muslims or the Christians, let's just slow down and be rational about this. Why is no one doing that? Well, it's possible that there are some people in this conversation,

maybe on both sides, who want to inspire hate. And that's not a good idea for anyone. For this country, for Christians is forbidden. Christians are not allowed to hate people. They understand that it's against God's law.

It's also the fastest way to corrode your soul and turn you into a monster. And of course, you don't want that. So how do you have a rational conversation about what's best for your country without becoming hateful yourself or inspiring hate in other people?

We've really thought a lot about this. Don't become what they call you. That's our number one imperative, at least on this show. They call you a hater. Don't become one.

So we're trying. So we're doing a couple of things. The first is we're flying to Jerusalem to interview my cuckabee. My cuckabee is, of course, the American ambassador to Israel.

Someone I've known for over 30 years and always liked.

And also a Baptist preacher of some kind. But certainly a prominent Baptist religious figure. Also you a ambassador and someone who has views that I just don't agree with at all. On questions of American foreign policy. And also on questions of theology.

He's a Christian famous Christian Zionist and a famous proponent of Neocon foreign policy. I disagree with both. However, it seems like of all the people you could talk to. Maybe Mike Huckabee is a guy.

By the way, if you want a picture of what hell itself is like. It's shouting in hatred. It's a large group of people screaming. Calling for violence.

“That is literally a picture of hell and don't live in it if you can help it.”

We don't want to. So maybe Huckabee is the guy to begin a reasonable conversation about what's best for the United States and what's true about Christian theology. So we're going to try to refine to Jerusalem difficult to do now without risk. But we're doing it because we really believe that the direction that this conversation is moving

is bad. It's bad for everybody. It's bad for the country and it's bad for our souls. So maybe that's a start toward making it better. And the second thing we're really trying to do is to speak to Christians in the Middle

East about the situation in the Middle East. Maybe not accidentally.

That is the one group you almost never hear from in the United States.

There are an awful lot of particularly Protestant evangelical ministers, leaders talking about Israel. Israel is they often call it. And what Christians are supposed to think about it, what they're required to think about it with the US government and the US military should do to aid Israel, etc., etc., etc.

And those are almost always framed in terms of the West versus Islam. You know, Israel in the United States versus the Muslims. Okay. But there's almost never any mention of the fact that the world's oldest Christian community is in that area in the Levant in Israel, Palestine, Lebanon and Syria, that

part of the Middle East that is not so far away. It's on the Mediterranean and is of course the birthplace of Christianity of Jesus himself. And there have been Christians there for 2,000 years uninterrupted. And we know that both from the historical record and from DNA tests. So if you're interested in Christianity, if you are a Christian, one of the first questions

you ought to ask is how are Christians in the Middle East doing? And the political lines have changed, of course. And after the fall of the Ottoman Empire, at the end of the first world war, that whole area was carved up into different countries, nation states, run by colonial powers, France and England.

And they became Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, and then after 1948 with the creation of Israel, and then after '67, the West Bank, I mean, it's been carved up over thousands of years by many different empires. But that region has remained the same, and its population has remained remarkably stable.

And the Christian population has never left, these are not converts, these are the original

Christians.

“It doesn't mean they're right about everything, but it means if you want to know what's”

actually happening, maybe you should talk to them. And to its great shame, its great shame, the American evangelical community, such as it is where its leaders have been very resistant to talking to Middle Eastern Christians or even to thinking about Middle Eastern Christians and the effect of American policy on those people.

But we think it's really important for two reasons. One, it's just inherent, like what about the Christians is a fair question for Christians to ask. In fact, they should be required to ask that question.

And second, because sincere Christians are not allowed to hate or be anti-Semitic or hate

at all Muslims or hate all anybody, but you're hate at all. It's forbidden by their religion talking to them directly is a great way to de-escalate what is by design becoming a tribal war. There is no reason for any conversation about American form policy to devolve into Jews versus everyone else or everyone versus Jews or any of this stuff.

It's awful, it's all a dead end, it will end in violence, that's obvious and then censorship and all the things that you don't want in your country, so don't go there. And we've really tried not to go there. And of course, they've called this show anti-Semitic, not see in all this stuff at all, if they're paid chills who've joined in on this.

But we still have to resist becoming what they call us. That is our job, period as Americans and as Christians, to keep the hate out of our hearts and to stay reasonable and talking to Middle Eastern Christians and Sear Christians is a really

“important way to keep the conversation exactly where it should be.”

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he leads a minister here in the United States, who is originally from a town called Betsohuir, which is right outside Bethlehem, birthplace of Jesus. Betsohuir is, you're going to hear him explain in a minute, is the place where the shepherds saw, and the wise men saw, the angels announced, Jesus' birth in the gospels. And so he is literally from that town.

It is a Palestinian village, you know, what we call the West Bank, the West Bank of the

Jordan River, that was part of Jordan until 1967, but has always been there, and it

is a majority about 80% Christian village. And it's disappearing. The Christians are leaving. And there's not a lot of debate about why they're leaving. They're not leaving because primarily because of the Muslims are leaving because of Jewish

settlers moved into the town by the Israeli government with funding from the United States from a lot of Christians, by the way, in the United States. Not just Jews, Christians, the United States, paying for these settlers to come and are driving out the Christian population. There is no rational justification for this.

There's no moral justification for it.

It's an atrocity, and it is almost never spoken about in non-plemical, honest ways.

And this man came to our attention some months ago, we've talked to him extensively. We think he is a truly decent man who has no hate in this art. You can judge for yourself, but no matter what side of this conversation you're on, particularly if you're a Christian Zionist, and by the way, go ahead and remain one if you like.

“But you should know that your views and in some cases your money is funding the displacement”

and the murder of the oldest Christian community in the world. So with that, here's a barham originally from Betsohuir in the West Bank. Thanks for doing this. So you are from a Christian village outside Bethlehem, birthplace of Jesus, correct? Yes.

And Betsohuir. Betsohuir. Yes. So what is Betsohuir? So first of all, thank you for having me.

Oh my gosh, of course.

And I wish I never had to do this interview to be honest with you.

But I feel compelled, I feel a sense of urgency because the little town that I come from is under existential threat. And let me say I come here as a Christian, first and foremost, very proud Christian, and I'm Palestinian American Christian. And I'm very proud of this country and for what this country stands for.

And for the great opportunity I was given as a Palestinian, this is my new homeland. Like I give me education, work, and then later I got married, I met the woman of my dreams here who, you know, my wife comes from Gaza and we met here in the States.

We pursued the American dream and I'm so grateful for it so thankful.

“But I'm here because I feel that the little town of Betsohuir is really under imminent”

danger that if nothing happens, if we don't do anything about it, there will be no more Christians living in Betsohuir today. So it's a Christian majority town and it's known for the shepherd's fields. In Luke chapter two, when the angel of the Lord appeared to the shepherd who were tending to their flocks, the angel appeared to them and pronounced the greatest event that ever happened

in history, which is the birth of the Messiah in next door town in a little town. So it's just they were right outside town and they were, that's where they were. Absolutely. So this is this, this happened in Betsohuir and if you go to Betsohuir today, the shepherd

“field is there, the people are there and the angel appeared also with a chorus of angelic”

holes, singing, glory to God in the highest, peace on earth and great joy to great man. Now the significance of Betsohuir is that God chose this lot of town, the town of the shepherd to announce the birth of Jesus, God didn't choose the spiritual elites and the

religious institutions in Jerusalem and he did not choose the powerful politicians, military

and Rome, but he chose to announce the birth of a Savior in a town called Betsohuir. And when the shepherd went to Betsohuir, they saw maybe Jesus, they came back rejoicing and they were the first evangelists that told the world about the birth of Jesus, God with us. It was in those fields where they were tending their flocks, they were poor, they were marginalized, they were ordinary men and women who just happened to be there and God chose them to be there.

So Betsohuir takes pride and it's not that we are privileged and better than anybody else, but that's the essence of the Christmas story that God gives hope to the people in the margins first, God's grace reaches those people first and the town of Betsohuir takes

“very pride of this heritage and this legacy, how long has it been majority Christian?”

It's been always majority Christian, so for like thousands of years.

Since the time of Jesus, the town of Betsohuir is the early descendants of the first Christmas story and they have maintained uninterrupted continuous presence since the day of the announcement of the birth of Jesus, it's amazing how long has your family been there? Generations, we always chalk around like we go back thousands of years, unfortunately we don't have family tree that could trace back to the time of Jesus, but the people have always

lived there, the people have always farm their lands, you're not a new convert to Christianity. We're not newcomers, we don't come from neighboring countries, we're not converts, we're not newcomers, we're not immigrants, we're an indigenous people of the land, Christian people. Christian Palestinians have a unique story to tell, what's interesting is that over that 2000 year period, a lot has happened, a lot of different people have ruled that area, of course

originally the Romans, yes, 2000 years ago was the Romans and then of course you moved up from Arabia, Islam starts and then you have the Crusades, kind of flip it over and then you have it flip back and it becomes the Ottomans and that Muslims run out of Istanbul, Constantinople, Turks and then you have the Brits and now you have the Israeli. So during all that time, that village remained Christian, but you're saying now, under Israeli rule, because it is

ruled by these Israelis, correct? Yes, it's in danger of becoming extinct. I call Palestinian Christians Empire survivors, yeah, we have survived empires, armies came and left, rulers came and left. A lot of them, identity changed,

language change, culture has been shaped by those empires, but the people have always remained there.

The church has always been open to worship, has always maintained a gospel witness and this is my deepest concern that if nothing is happened, if we don't do anything about it, there will be no more Christians in the Holy Land. So they remain there from, you know, 33 AD until 1967 and then in 1967 when it's areas annexed by the government. Yes, the real threat begins, that's what you're saying.

possible and keep as few Palestinians on the land as possible. This has been their strategy,

“it has worked for them, because they're constantly taking Palestinian land within, we're talking”

about, not proper, Israel, we're talking about 1967 when they captured West Bank, Israel, Sleman and Gaza, they have been taken land, they have been building settlements there and this is threatening the local population, especially it comes at a heavy price. So that has been the policy for decades and it has worked for them because it's almost near completion now. They're taking, if you look at Bethlehem, the governor to Bethlehem, the district to Bethlehem,

it is surrounded by Israeli settlements and it's actually if you look it up, the Bethlehem ring, it's actually a thing. It's a ring of settlements all in circling every town, every Palestinian village and they choose these specific lands strategically on health tops, taken water resources,

“building walls around these settlements, building new roadblocks, building new checkpoints,”

building new security measures they call it motion sensors, electric wire wires and it comes at a really deep expense of the local population. So when is you grew up there? Yes, I grew up in the town of Bethlehem, what was that like? What was your experience of the Israeli government growing

up as a Christian there? Well, I lived through the first Antifada and we lived next to the YMCA

in Bethlehem, there was actually a YMCA in Bethlehem, and down the road from us there was an Israeli bypass road only. What does that mean? It's me, whenever they build settlements, they build those roads that are only accessible to settlers, which these roads are connected the entire settlements together and they are directly connected to proper Israel so they can easy of movement for the settlers to go. What do you mean for settlers? You mean you're not allowed on them? No, absolutely not.

Some roads in area B of the West Bank Palestinians are allowed on them, like between the roads of between Bethlehem and Hebron or Bethlehem in Jericho, there are some few very limited roads that you can't. I mean, what are you going to do? We have to share the roads, but in many of these roads, Palestinians are not allowed to. You're not allowed, like someone who's born there. Absolutely not. But those roads, that road down the streets from us, we would see

sceptors come and go, we would see Israeli army vehicles come and go, and one day we were playing outside. I'm sorry, I've been there, but it's hard, I didn't fully digest this, I guess, at the time. So how about right now? You're an American, you live in the United States, you've been here a long time because you go and get on one of those roads. Let me explain it this way. Imagine you are in San Diego. Yeah. And then a group of people from Mexico come to San Diego and take a piece of

property. Yes. And they build fence around it. And then all of the sudden, they plant a Mexican flag on that, you know, I'm not to say that I love Mexicans, but this is hypothetical. But it's a country, too. Yes. Right. I love Mexican food too. We've got a new partner, it's a company called cowboy Kalostrom, it's a brand that is serious about actual health and the product is designed to work with your body, not against your body. It is a pure and simple product, all natural. Unlike other brands,

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from Papier-Tütenboda. So for the sake of this analogy, imagine they come and they build

“fence around this property, and now it cuts your property in half, and sometimes it slides it up,”

so it becomes Fragmented. They set up this fence around it, they take the water resources, they build walls, sniper towers, and all of the sudden you see the Mexican army coming to protect those new settlers, and those settlers are not friendly neighbors. They're not coming to San Diego to be neighbors. They're coming to take the land from San Diego. And now if you are a mother, a Christian mother who puts her children in Christian school, and you're one, and your school now is behind

those new roads that these Mexican settlers built. They built a new road that connects San Diego to Tijuana

across the border. And you are a mother who wants to go, who wants to drop off her kids

“to a school that is beyond those bypass road only. And this is not theoretical for us. This is”

reality. When you go to Bezajo, you will see the settlements in circling the little town choking it. It's like slow suffocation. It prevents it from its natural growth. That story that I told you about the mother is actually my cousin, who takes her children, she has twins, and she has a six year old to the American Evangelical School built in Bezajo. And with this new settlement they have built, they have set up a roadblock at checkpoint where Israeli come and man those checkpoint

to protect the settlers. Now one day she was taken her children to school, and there is really army pointed guns at them. How come I'm instructing them to let the kids walk across the checkpoint to make it to the school to the other side. Now this is not an insulated incident. This is not

something that happens every once in a while. Their army is always present to protect the settlers.

So my cousin told her a six year old, you're strong, you can do this, and we can walk through it, the teacher on the other side is going to receive you. As soon as she walked, she held her head up high, he passed through the soldier, and she fainted at the feet of the school staff. Now this is brings a lot of psychological trauma. It brings a lot of nightmares.

“That's what Christian families in Bezajo are experiencing. Now I remember I told you about our home,”

back in Bezajo. It's not too far from the school, it's not too far from the new settlement, they are building a Bezajo. And down the road is the Israeli bypass road, which is only for settlers and Israeli armed vehicles. In 1990, we watched settlers come and go. There was an Israeli army vehicle that stopped. And we saw, I was ten at the time, I saw an Israeli soldier stepping out of the vehicle, pointing a rifle at us, and he started shooting at us. Are you? We were a bunch of kids. I mean,

my siblings, my mother was there, and some of my cousins. He started shooting life ammunition at us. And then my mother rushed us all into the door. She was the last one to get in. She caught a bullet in the back. Your mother? Yes, my own mother. Who loves the Lord and he loves Jesus. And exit one, she dropped, come on, she dropped on the floor, pull a blood. I heard, I heard to the back door, called my dad, my uncle, who was a physician, who was pressuring the wound,

took her to the hospital, saw this happen. This in front of my eyes. My own mother. I'm sorry, I should say we've been talking off camera before we started this interview. And I didn't know this story. It's not my interview notes. And I detected no bitterness whatsoever. And anything you said, I don't know how. Sorry, so you're just shocking me. I didn't expect to hear that. Palestinian Christians take the sermon of the Mount very seriously. Apparently,

when Jesus comes and he elevates our thinking, when he elevates our outlook on life, when he takes morality to a whole new standard, when he said, you have heard, do not kill. But I tell you, if you look at your brother and you call him Raka, Aramaic

and you remember the context, Jesus was talking to Jewish audience who were under ruthless

Roman occupation. Yes. They were persecuted. They were discriminated against. It was very brutal to live under the Roman occupation. But Jesus telling his followers love your enemies. Pray for those who persecute you. This is something that we have grew up. We have grown up understanding the very essence and the meaning of this sermon of the Mount. Wow. I'm sorry. I've totally derailed your story because I'm just shocked. I really didn't know that was coming. So your 10 years old, you watch

“your mother get shot by this. Okay, so many questions. Why did he do this? Do you know?”

This has been just random. They do this, not just to pelicine Christians. I mean, that has been

a policy. They do it to the Muslims. They do it to any Palestinians. Did she survive?

She did. Miraculous. It was the bullet was just millimeters away from the spine. It was an American rifle. I assume. Who knows? Of course. We don't know this whole church around, right? Okay, so that's my next question. So, so some soldier, your mother wasn't throwing rocks at him or screaming for Jihad or anything. We were just playing in front of the house. We were just kids playing. Not just how can you live in this country and listen to people who have no idea what they're talking

about. So this is, this is the real threat of the new settlements. Okay, it's not just taking Christian land. It's not acquiring and taking by force the resources of the land. Of Christian lands who live there for generations. It's inviting violence settlers to your neighbor. They're coming to take the land. They're coming to squeeze. They're coming to crush. They're coming to -- Why are they mad at you? What did you do? Being born in the -- I don't understand the hate,

and I certainly have been the target of it, but I don't understand. I mean, I understand why people are like me. I'm doing interviews like this, but I don't understand why

“why would someone shoot a mother in front of a children? Like, I just don't get that. Like, what is that?”

You interviewed Bishop Hosem and he mentioned the story. The recent story just last month. Yes. The attack on a Christian widow. She's a Christian widow. The violence settler came to her property, grazing on the land with his cattle, and then he hits her with a stone on her head. Fractures her skull takes her to -- you know, she almost lasts her life and when her son tried to defend her, the son gets arrested by the Israeli military. And then when the settlers

bunch of sellers -- they showed up at the house in the presence and the full support and the complicity of the Israeli army -- they knocked down the door. Her daughter was inside, Nareemann, and I talked to her. She drew the sign of their cross. And when they found out that she was

“Christian, you know, whether it's settler-tolder? Well, it's all the what are you doing here?”

This is not your land. You don't belong here. He said, go to France or go somewhere else. You don't belong here. God gave us this land. Now, this settler violence that has been on the rise, the town of Taipei, where they burned centuries old church. They burned the crops, vandalized properties, right graffiti, splitting on clergy and pastors and leaders. All of these atrocities are done in broad daylight. They're done without accountability.

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roger, whatever great prox or sold black rifle coffee veteran founded America roasted. It's America's coffee. I was talking to my wife of I was on the road for a few weeks. And I was talking to her at breakfast this morning about that interview with the Anglican Archbishop that we did on the banks of the Jordan River. And he's we're Anglicans. We grew up in it. In the Anglican church in the United States is, you know, it's not very

Christian anymore. And I was telling her that man off camera. I said to him, people spit on you.

And my first thought was, why don't you shoot them? Like don't allow someone to spit. I didn't say that

because I, you know, but that was my thought. She was with a bad person. I am. And he said, "Every time someone spits at me, I feel blessed, they spit at Jesus." And I was telling my

“wife, I think Christians who live in that kind of environment understand Christianity,”

much deeper way that we do here. I think that. To hear you say that you don't feel bitterness, your mother didn't feel bitterness after being shot in front of her children for no reason. And this is what the gospel does. It transforms the heart. Yes, I totally agree. It's, it's, yes, I want to seek justice. But in the meantime, I don't want to allow hatred. Yes, you poison my soul. I don't want, okay, please everyone watch this rewind. Watch that again.

Can you say that again? I love that. I don't want to allow the atrocities and the sense that have been committed against Christians to allow bitterness to grow in our hearts. Jesus provided a better way. Jesus gave us the example of forgiving and for loving our enemies. Jesus forgave the

“people who even crucified him. And that's the model. That's why Christians in the Holy Land”

are the salt of the earth. Are the light in the midst of that darkness? And if we don't preserve that gospel witness, this is the reason I decided to do this interview with you, cut to her. And I said, a prayer this morning, am I son of that you would take out with speak through you? And he is. It's the gospel witness. We want to keep the message of Christ alive in the land of its birth. We want to share the goodness of the gospel with every person who is who is traumatized,

with every person who is suffering, with every child in Gaza, who has lost everything. The only hope is to tell them that God loves them. That's right. The only hope is to break the cycle of violence between the Israelis and the Palestinians. It's not going, I don't, you know, law will restrain your physical being. But God sets your spirit free. He sets your soul free. I make me emotional. No, that's totally right. He redeems us. And these are the basic values

that are lived on daily basis by Christian Palestinians. Let me tell you about my friend Salam. Salam was the only child to his family who lived right down the street from me closer to this Israeli bypass road. And on February 18, 1991, a hateful Israeli settler parked his vehicle next to Salam's house. And he shot him in the head inside his house through a window while having dinner with his family. A new settlement coming to town is going to pose real existential threat

to everyone living there. And the Christian witness will be diminished. So this is, this is a part of its hard to understand as an American and let's just start a few minutes previous in the conversation. Israeli soldier, IDF soldier shoots your mother for no reason. Who is that soldier? Was there a trial? Did you ever hear what happened to him? No, I mean,

“these are like dumb questions. But I'm an American. Was he punished? Like what happened next?”

We have no idea. Nobody from the occupation authority from the supposedly humane Western Western is really government ever went to your house and said, you know, we've questioned the sky or even followed

up at all. Absolutely not. You see, this is the shot your mother like an animal and then never

the core issue here is that there's a culture of impunity. A lot of these acts they go unchecked. Oh, I've noticed. It's a culture and that comes, it's not insulated incidents and just to give

So in case, you know, people discredit the Palestinian testimony, Palestinian Christians,

“you know, we often get discredited. Oh, I've noticed. Yes. And it breaks my heart when even our”

brothers and sisters in Christ do that. Well, I want to ask you about that because that's where I have trouble controlling. Yeah, but I'm going to come back to the Rossing Center. They documented 100 and 11 attacks on Christians in 2024 alone. 111. You go to any Israeli human rights organizations, such as Bitsailam. He's now documenting every single incidents and you will find a pattern that these attacks are not random. They're not, they don't happen out of the blue. They're systematic.

Israel has created a pervasive system and we call it a structural pressure that they keep

applying on the Christian population to push them out of their land. When I speak to Palestinian

“Christians in Bitsailam, what they fear the most, they saw what's happening in Gaza. They have”

relatives in Gaza and they fear that they are next. It's a real danger that is pointed at Bitsailam community right now and this new settlement and it's not the only settlements. I mean Bitsailam is surrounded by settlements and we have long history of these settlers coming and taking the Palestinian lands and building those lavish settlements. But ugly. Very ugly. They fill up their swimming

pools. They put their green grass, wild Palestinian Christians. They wait for two or three weeks

for a water truck to fill up their tanks on top of the roof. Giant black plastic tank that we're not allowed to even have running water. I've seen them. Can I ask, just because I don't want anything to fall through the cracks here, your friend who was murdered will having dinner by a settler. What happened to that settler? Selam Missle. We don't know who the settler was. He just stopped his vehicle, shot at him and left. And Selam is not the only one. We

“mean I asked like, was there no investigation of this? No one was arrested for it?”

Yep. Absolutely not. Selam is not the only one. There was another guy named Edmo on random. You know, back in the days this policy used to be much in much bigger full force. They called it a whole mapping. I don't know if you're familiar with the whole mapping. So I'm American. I don't know anything. I've been lied to about this for so thank God for organization like breaking the silence, which is a group of former IDF soldiers

and they're there sharing their stories and their experiences in the West Bank. So home mapping is when an Israeli army decides to go into a Palestinian home for the purpose quote unquote of collecting intelligence. What they usually do is they lock up the whole family in a room for a day or two and sometimes four weeks and they take over the house. And this usually is done to give the new soldiers some practice and training. It's called home mapping.

So when I grew up and these are stories from my childhood, Edmo was walking down the street. When an Israeli soldier was on top of a Palestinian house roof, dropped a stone on Edmo and killed him instantly. Why a Christian young man for no reason? Antoni Shomali, he was caught by an Israeli, you know, Iran away from Israeli army. For something they got scared, they caught him and they shot him in a close proximity in cold blood. And I can give you stories of stories. Those are not terrorists.

Those are not people who seek violence. Those are people who want to simply stay in their land. Work, live, have a future, live in peace. And let me tell you know, highlight the violence of the settlers does not mean we ignore the violence committed by St. Palestinian. I mean as Christians, we recognize there are some Palestinians who carry out attacks and inflict terror on innocent Israelis as well. And we're not going to bury our heads and say, oh, it doesn't happen.

You know, stepping, rhyming into some Israeli citizens. And as Christian Palestinian American, we condemn any attacks on any civilians. We condemn any form of violence to achieve justice.

Christians have always extending the hands of making peace with our Jewish neighbors, with our Muslim

“neighbors, with everyone. We just want to live in peace so we condemn violence at all levels.”

But there is a difference between when a Palestinian commits a violence versus when a settler commits a violence. When a Palestinian commits a violence wrong to be condemned, not to be condoned, to killing innocent civilians. Usually he or she are shot on the spot and if they make it out alive, they get detained and they've thrown in prison. And right now there's really government is really pushing heart to pass a law to legalize the death penalty in Israeli for Palestinians.

But anyway, he gets thrown in prison. His house, his family, his family's house, gets demolished.

And his family gets a security block not to travel anywhere outside town. Collectively punishing the parents for the crime that their son or their daughter committed. This is what, so when a Palestinian commits a crime, this happens. But when a settler commits a crime, there is an Israeli army that backs you up. There is a system that gives it impunity. And this is the grave in justice. As a Christian mister, this is why I come to

your show and say, this should not be done. Especially when Christians are supporting this without knowing the facts and the reality on the ground. This is what really something you know the facts and reality on the ground. Just in an, I don't think that applies to your average evangelical Christian Zionist in the United States. I don't think they have any idea. But some of their leaders know perfectly well what's happening. And because I know them and I know that they

know. And they know the Christians by name and they have their data. And they know where they live. So, and I want to get, I've, I've weighed too many questions for you, but thankfully we have time. But this seems like a good time to try to understand what's going on there. And I've already admitted that's where my anger lies is toward, you know, the people like me, Christians in America who

“are making excuses for this or, or a bedding at making it possible. What is that? Why is that happening?”

October 7 was horrific. Yes. It was horrible what Hamas has done, killing innocent civilians, kidnapping babies. I totally agree. This is wrong. This needs to be condemned. And Palestinian Christians have been consistent in condemning violence to achieve justice, as I said. But the overwhelming suffering lies on Gaza right now. The disproportionate response I was in South Africa when October 7, I was getting ready to speak at a Christian conference before 5,000 people

in the Roman Cape Town. And before I got up there, my forms start all kind of notifications going on. And I've learned about October 7 immediately that night. I went on my hotel room and I recorded a video. I said, I condemned this horror. This is not the way we need to condemn this act of violence. But in the meantime, I said, I leaned over to my friend, my pastor friend, and I said, I am shaking because of the level of retaliation that the Israeli military is going to respond.

We grew up with it. So you knew. My wife grew up in Gaza Baptist Church. Gaza Baptist. And not too many people know that Baptists have made it all the way to Gaza. And Gaza Baptist Church was burnt. Was bombed. There was some theft. Gaza Baptist Church was bombed? Yes. Now,

imagine that first about this church of Dallas people were bombed. We're a little rock.

“I believe the whole United States army and marine and military and air force will be going after”

the perpetrator. Maybe not. But yeah, no, it would be obvious that that is a crime. I just don't understand that I've raised this question many, many times with Christian leaders in the United States. What did the Baptists and Gaza do wrong? Why are we paying to bomb their church? Do you know? It's not just the Baptists. It's all the Palestinian people are being collectively punished in Gaza. What's happened in Gaza? It's really horrific atrocity that no one should be. If it doesn't

shake us at our core, I don't think we have any humanity. Well, we're Americans. We have no idea what's happening in Gaza. So why don't you tell us? On in October there was a bomb that that

and killed so many Christians. There's a lady that played the piano at Gaza Baptist Church.

“Her name was Ilham Farah. She was an icon, music icon in Gaza. Everybody loved her. She was 84.”

She went to her house to check on the house if it's still standing or not. She gets sniped. Shot in the leg by an Israeli soldier. Left to bleed to death for three agonizing days. She was in the phone until her phone was dead on one of my closest friends. He was with her on the phone. And a few weeks later when they went to bury her, they found out that the is really tank crawled over her body. Ilham Farah. She played the piano. She was part of the worship

team in Gaza Baptist Church. Now he then somehow ended this happened. That was in November 2023.

So we know it was a vengeance campaign. It was a retaliation. Why a vengeance against 84-year-old Christian piano players? Like what does she have to do with it? Nahidan Samar Anton, another 2 lady, a lady in their 80s and her daughter. They were gunned by an Israeli sniper on church ground, holy holy family church. That was also later on bombed and three people were killed. Those are real stories. Those are real people who have suffered because of this military power

“that is directed on them day and day and night. And the whole idea is really honestly”

is getting rid of Palestinians. It's pushing them out. It doesn't matter whether the Christians or Muslims. That has been the strategy. And now it's taken a different approach in the West Bank by suffocating the communities by creating as many Israeli settlements as possible so they can squeeze the communities out. They push them out of their land. And when you were a child, there was really a settlement near your home. Yes. Did you ever have positive interactions

with the settlers? To be honest with you, some settlers have no idea. They just move in there. And again, we can't really paint with wide brushes, say, all these people are evil. But there is a system that is enabling this evil to take. Some settlers, it's just cheaper right to live out there.

“They get subsidized and they get government subsidies to move into the West Bank and they call it”

Judea and Samaria. And unfortunately, going back to your questions, there is an organization, not just one, but there's one that I know of and they boast about it on their website. They

have raised and spent $3.5 billion to support these settlements and to bring people from all over

the world to return to their ancestral homeland of Judea and Samaria. And they raise those $3.5 billion from evangelical Christians, from Christians in the United States. Now, if you're American here and you go to church, you love Jesus, you love scriptures, just like we do. You worship every Sunday, you're involved in ministry, you're volunteering at your local church. And if you hear the vision from your pastors that, hey, where the Jewish people, they have gone under

severe horrific Holocaust during World War II. And now we have the opportunity to bring some of these survivors back to Israel to their homeland. If you're an American watching this and hearing this while this sounds really great, this sounds very noble. And I agree, I mean, as a Palestinian, I want the Jewish people to live in safety and dignity. Of course, but it doesn't have to come at the expense of the local Christian Palestinians and the local Palestinian indigenous people who have

lived in that land for the past 2,000 years. You see what they're telling you is that this is a great vision. It's, you know, Christian, when they hear about Zionism, it's a compelling vision. It's bringing people who don't have any land and have and create the homeland without people for people without land. Yes, but the land had people. I know. So what you do to create through is you keep pushing them out. So today I ask what you referred to Judean Samaria.

I know that under Ron DeSantis in the state of Florida, it's now like required by law to call it Judeans, right? What we call the West Bank, which is part of Jordan, formerly Trans Jordan, whatever, but it's, yes, right outside Jerusalem, all the way to the Jordan River, it's the West

called it my whole life the West Bank. And now we're required to call it Judea and Samaria.

I mean, I don't really care. I wonder why some American politicians telling me what I have to call a place across the ocean, but because he's taking a lot of money from proponents of this, of course, but like why are they so intent on forcing me to call it Judean Samaria? I honestly don't understand. It's not just Florida. I mean, I love Florida. That you do. It's a great sunshine state. You know, I moved here in 2020 because I heard that Governor Governor DeSantis banned COVID here. Amen.

So we moved here because we love Florida and we still enjoy it. But they passed a lot to call

to the wise American television telling me that. It's many different states who are a poor, who are

seeking to change the name. And for us, you know, I'm a Christian. Yes, it's the biblical name.

“That's what, what, what Judea and Samaria was called when Jesus was there. But instead of really”

worrying about calling a region, a biblical name, why can't we apply biblical principles? No, but I'm just saying, like what's the, this is these railies are telling our lawmakers. You must force your people to use these words. And they're doing that across our society. And they say they're doing it. So they're doing it. But why? Why does it matter to them? They want to invoke divine rights. They want to make the connection that this land, divinely and theological belongs to one

group of people. Now, if you look at the West Bank, let's break it down. There is a legal implication, but there's also a moral and theological implication. The legal implication, the U.S. politicians hate it. They don't like to get into the legal complexity of the West Bank because it's a losing case. The whole world agrees that the Israeli settlements are illegally built by an occupying force on Palestinian land. The land is occupied, according to the United Nations, for Geneva Convention,

United Nations resolutions, security council, even this has been the long-standing U.S. policy

“for the past 50 years. I don't know if you remember the handsle memo, which stipulates that this land”

is occupied and the settlements are illegal. Now, from different administrations, the language is different. Some administrations like Obama, they call it obstacle to peace. Some administrations call it illegitimate settlements that are preventing and hindering the two-state solution. But interestingly,

in Trump's first administration, when Mike Pompeo was the Secretary of State, he rescinded

the handsle memo, and he said those Israeli settlements are not per se inconsistent with international law. Whatever that means, but basically, these are not illegal. They have a legal right to the, to Judea and Samaria. For me, okay, I'm not a politician, I'm not a legal expert, I'm a Christian minister, I look at the issue from a biblical perspective, from a moral perspective. What are the biblical implications of this? Does God really approve

this placement of stealing of land theft? And there's a biblical story, actually, about this Tucker, you know, when the evil King of Israel, Ahab, he had an evil woman, wife, named jizbel. They looked over and they saw a vineyard owned by neighbors, and they loved that vineyard. They said, man, we want to take it. That's, and being the King of Israel, they could have invoked divine rights. Is the King appointed or deemed by God, but unfortunately he was, this honorable King, he did not

obey the ways of the Lord. So I don't know how much divine, you know, rights he can claim, but let's say for the sake of argument, they claim divine rights. They went and they tried to acquire

“the vineyard legally, they offered neighbor, money, neighbor refused to sell. So what do they do?”

They conspire and they kill neighbors and they steal the land and they take it. It's the state backed by divine rights stealing innocent man's land. If you asked, did God notice that they did this? Of course he did. Oh, he did. Oh, he did. He sent the prophet Elijah to stand before a haven time what you did was wrong. God is going to judge you for it. Now, my, I wonder as a Palestinian

standing up to this injustice? So they're cowards and they're making the wrong choice. They're

“making the world. They're going to have to answer for this. And, and let me be very honest with you,”

Tucker. We can't paint with a wide brush. There have been so many great American missionaries who have come to the Middle East, who have labored in the Middle East. A lot of great churches have given sweat and blood for the Middle East. They built great schools. We have one in Betzahore, a evangelical church of Betzahore and they have built hospital. They have built schools. They have plenty churches. But there is a stream of Christians that has this proportionate power and influence on you as

policy. And it's that policy that is inflicting pain and suffering on a community like Betzahore. This is the core issue. I know. And they're doing it in the name of the Bible where the Bible is innocent. I got a lecture this morning from an Israeli. This morning, I'm not an anti-Semite. I have poor anti-Semitism against my religion. I've said that a thousand times and I mean it.

If I was anti-Semite, I'd just say I'm an anti-Semite. I'm not an anti-Semite and I'm never going to

become one no matter what they say. So I'm talking to, you know, like, what do you want me to do to prove I'm not an anti-Semite? 100% can't your attacks on Christian Zionism? It wasn't stop saying mean things about the Jews. I've never said to you mean things about the Jews. I don't feel bad things about I'm not mad at the Jews. Period. I'm mad as I've said a million times about my people, Christians, distorting the gospel in a way that allows theft and murder and the degradation

“of human beings. I'm never going to be okay with that. And that's what they're mad at me about”

is because I've called out Christian Zionism because they see that, I just had this conversation

in an article. So it's a fresh in mind. Yes. They see that as critical. You have to have American

evangelical pastors telling their congregations who are sweet people who don't know any better that God wants you to support the state of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu. That's what they need that. Yes. Is that fair, do you think? What Christian Zionists get wrong here is that not because they want to create a safe place for the Jewish people. That could be an honorable cause. Yes. I agree. But the process, the implication of what that means. To them, Christians Zionism means creating a safe

place for the Jews where they can feel safe and secure and which is honorable great. Got it. But for Palestinians, Christians Zionism means taking our land, taking our resources. While declaring that you have a divine right and the descendants of the shepherds in the little town of Bezahore who have maintained their Christian presence for the past 2,000 years do not somehow have that same divine

right. Our ancestors were Jewish. Palestinian Christians, they first accepted the message of Christ

and that church is still intact today. As I said, some people even converted when Islam came to Palestine, some people converted but they did not convert from atheism. Muslims converted from Christianity and probably some Jews even converted to Islam. So you might have some some Muslims they can claim that they have a Jewish DNA. But again, identity changes. It's dynamic. Of course, it lagged with changes, but the people are there. So I think now is a good time to

ask you to explain what Christian Zionism is and I'm going to disadvantage because I'm so ignorant. I just didn't grow up around this at all. So as fairly as you can, can you explain what Christian Zionism and I should say, you came to the United States once a Liberty University. Correct. Yes.

“Lots of great people. Lots of Christian Zionists there. Lots. So I think I think you understand it. Right?”

Well, and I loved my time at Liberty University. Yes, so thankful for the great education. I got there. I had to meet a lot of great friends, great professors. My life was changed there. I actually read, dedicated my life and I committed my life to service at Liberty University and I received the vision to start Levant Ministries at Liberty, which is the organization I now lead.

movement that says that God has two distinct people with two distinct plans and two distinct

covenant. When Mike Huckabee was asked on, he was an interview at TVM, training to broadcasting

“network and he was asked, what is the verse that guides your day-to-day job as a U.S. ambassador in Israel?”

You know what he said? He's a Genesis 123. I want to be able to bless Israel so I can be blessed. I want to secure all the blessings for Israel so the United States can receive the blessings in return. So for us, we have to look at this theology. Do you know what that means? To me as someone who's interested in words of former editor, book writer, I care about definitions and so when Christian Zionist say Israel, what are they talking about? That's a great question because as Christians, we have to

look at the Scripture through the lens of Christ. Christ is the point. Christ is the fulfillment. And the way I look at Scriptures, I look at the Old Testament, the faithful and the righteous people, the Old Testament and the righteous and the faithful people, the New Testament as one faith community. They're beautifully connected through the cross. The moment that you start separating, this, this is when you start getting into a different interpretation of what Israel means today.

Is it the government of Israel, our God's people or not? But when we look at the gospel, we see Jesus as the very center. We look at the New Testament with the lens of the gospel.

We see Jesus in the Old Testament. And what Jesus did is very critical and it's really

“is important for us to understand what Jesus did in the new covenant he brought and how it changed”

and it transformed the Old covenant that God had with Abraham. Yes. It didn't abolish it. It didn't replace it, which is, you know, we're not replacement theology. I do not agree with replacement theology. God is not done with the Jews. God is not done with anybody. God wants everybody to come to the saving knowledge and to enjoy His grace and to enjoy His blessings. God desires this for God's all of the world, right? But what Jesus did, he did not replace the Jews,

but it was a journey that God started with Abraham. And when they called Genesis 123, that was a private conversation between God and Abraham. And God came to Abraham and told him, you no longer are called Abrams, but you're going to be called Abraham. The father with all nations. So, God's original plan is to redeem all nations. It's to bless the whole world through the seed of Abraham. And when you look at the New Testament, you read a verse like Galatians 316 where

it says Abraham has one seed. He didn't say seeds. And through that seed, you get to enjoy all the Abrahamic blessings. So, what Jesus came to do, and that's the seed of course, it's Christ. And that journey that Abraham started with God, it's still in motion today. It didn't divert, it didn't get to replace, it didn't get all well. Jesus came and His people didn't accept Him.

So, let's me go to plan P. There was always one plan for God's redemption and God's salvation.

It started in Abraham and it culminated in in in Jesus. And we are the extension of that Abrahamic blessing. So, if I put my faith and trust in Jesus Christ, I get to claim the Abrahamic blessings in Genesis 123. What seems that way? But I guess I don't, I mean, I have so many questions, I mean, first of all, how could Christians ever support any movement that reject Jesus? I just don't, I don't understand that. How could we, we could say we, we feel so sorry

for people who reject Jesus? We, we want to help them. In simple terms, I think Christians

“Zionism has replaced Jesus with the current state of Israel. Obviously, that's why I think”

it's heresy. And I don't mean that, I mean, like I should be calling anyone also heretic. I've lived such a bad life, but, and I'm not, I hope it sounds self-righteous. I just don't understand. It's like, I thought Christianity was about following Jesus and Jesus was the key. What is it not? You're the, you're the minister. What Jesus did, he did two important things that we cannot overlook. He expanded this cup of the promise, right? It's of Abraham to everybody,

little bit for our, for the viewers to really understand that the theological importance and

significance of this. So, when he expanded this cup of the promise, what is the promise? He expanded it from a mere geographical location alongside the Mediterranean coastline to include the whole earth. Yes. The new testament spells it out. The apostle Paul, and his letters to the Romans, Romans 413, he said, "By faith, God made Abraham the air of the whole world." Exactly. I've read it. So, for God's sake, all of the world that he gave his only son, that who's still

ever, right? So not only expanded the geographical location of the land, he also expanded the ethnic line of the people to include every tribe, every nation, every town says that again, and again, and again, and again, and that's the whole, that's a story of Acts, it's a story of Revelation,

“it's a story of the whole New Testament. And that's what Jesus instructed his disciples to do. He said,”

"Hey, leave your nationalistic aspiration aside. We have a kingdom to build. The kingdom of God is at hand. The kingdom of God is among you." So, they let go of their dreams to build the kingdom for Israel, and they went and they paid for their life for the kingdom, the eternal kingdom of God. So, Jesus expanded the geography. That's the, he is the locusts of the land. He is the one that speaks in Hebrew, that, you know, if we enter in Jesus, we find rest. The land does not give us rest anymore.

So, he expanded the geography, he expanded the ethnic line to include every nation, every tribe,

and that always, by the way, Takar, it's been always God's plan that way. In Psalm, the Old Testament,

chapter 2 verse 8, it says, "Ask me and I will give you the nations as your inheritance." So, God's plan has been always the whole world, redeeming the whole world, they're storing the whole world, and it's been always inclusive for all people, all ethnic things. It's so clear that it's clear in Jesus's ministry. I'm responding to your just reading the four gospels again and again,

“and that jumps out at me. I mean, who does, who does Jesus praise most?”

The Roman officer. I've not seen anyone with faith like this. In Israel. Right? Is some pagan guy. Yes. Right. So, but the meaning of the promise, and this is important, what does it mean? Do we inherit a holy land between the river and the Mediterranean? Or does it mean something else? The meaning of that promise have also been transformed. It's not just the scope of the promise. It's the meaning of the promise, from temporary to eternal, from physical

to spiritual, from conditional because it was conditional by the way. He didn't just give them the land and say, "This is your land." It's God's land by the way. He is the land Lord, and the people that were given the land, they were tenants, and they have to obey the commandments of the Lord. They have to love their neighbors. They have to take care of the foreigners among them.

And when they don't obey the covenant that was given to them, God always kicked them out.

Oh, yeah. They can abandon them. They can abandon them. Yes, twice. And the ultimate gift's graphic language when describes the, you know, not for Israel not obeying the laws of the Lord. This is the land will vomit you out, excuse my language. So it was conditional when it was given to Abraham, but in Jesus, it's secure. It's eternal. It's no longer, and you know, what really makes me fall in love with Jesus and the patriarchs and the fathers, the church fathers and the church

throughout history and the Palestinian church really understand this because they truly understand the meaning of the covenant. Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, it spells it out in Hebrews that they were not, they were eagerly looking for the New Jerusalem whose architects and builder is God. They were not fixated on a mere strip of land. That's temporary. That's going to be gone. We should be focused on what's eternal. And obviously when Jesus came and he was in John 18 when he was being tried before Pilate, the charge was,

“are you a king? Are you threatening me? Am I, are you a threat to my kingdom and my exact name?”

Just said yes, I am a king, but my kingdom is not from this world.

to the church today? Well, exactly. And it is pre-Christian. It's not Western at all. It's Eastern. And collective punishment is the sign that we're not dealing with a Western mindset at all because we reject collective punishment. I may be mad at you. I can't kill your kids. Not a lab. Yes. And there are some sincere dispensation. Let's let me say this. I have some dispensation for and Christians should debate this vigorously, but it should stay in the seminary. It should be

staying within the world of the church. Well, that's the problem. I haven't even got involved in it because I'm just too ignorant. Okay. I wouldn't you said for a place, I don't know what that is, I'm not going to learn. All I know is that Christianity might read of it is just focus on Jesus and you will be transformed and so I'm just kind of stick with that. But it's a political matter and

“that's what I do cover and have my whole life. I don't understand what Ambassador Huckabee for”

example is saying when he says, "Bus is real. Okay. What is Israel?" So my read of Genesis is it goes from like a tributary of the Freides in a rock all the way to the Nile. So that's like six countries. What is that? What are the boundaries? And that's still too small for God. Of course, is that theological matter, but I think if we're speaking in political terms, it's a government run by, you know, secular people by and large. Yes. And they're saying God gave us this land.

Okay. What land? What are the boundaries? We should at least define the terms. Second, who's we?

What does it mean? Who are the people who inherited this? So the Prime Minister of Israel is not religious. He doesn't keep the Sabbath or keep kosher. I'm not attacking him. I'm just saying like then what are you talking about? Are you saying you've had genetic inheritance? Like what, okay, let's say someone who converts to Judaism claims divine right from Brooklyn. I don't even want to

“have these conversations. They're the ones pushing them. I think people, I'm happy that people”

practice their own religions. I don't want to get involved. Yeah. I don't want to know everything about Mormonism is longer. It's fine. But as long as you're saying you have a right to my money and your parents land on the basis of this promise in Genesis, I have a right to ask you what you're talking about. Did you know that Israel goes out of its way to prevent Messianic believers from making Alia? No. Jewish believers in Jesus. If they find out that you believed in Jesus,

they don't give you the right to immigrate to Israel. What? So who's land is that true? Who's promise? Yeah. I have a lot of Jewish friends who are believers in Jesus and they share with me and they can't move back to Israel and get all the rights of not does. So they're really okay. So now we're talking like present-day concrete political realities. There are two claims that they could

“potentially be making. One is faith-based. So I believe in this religion called Judaism.”

We could bait what that religion is. Is it Talmudic or Rubinic? Whatever. That's a whole separate conversation that I don't want to have. But they're pushing this. But it's either faith-based. I believe in this. Or it's blood-based. It's genetic. I think they have also historical claims. Say, "Jews have been here, we have been here." But who are the Jews then? Like do you have more DNA? I don't know if you even know the answer, but do you? If we were to say

okay, who lived in first century Palestine, current day Israel, are you more closely related to those

people or his Benjamin Netanyahu, who more closely related to those people? They should do DNA testing and I did my DNA test. Palestine and Christians are 11teen of origin. So it's likely that you have more Jewish ancestors than Benjamin Netanyahu's family from Europe. Probably. Okay. So then it can't be genetic because, right? Well again, as Christians, we have to put the gospel lens. I agree. I agree. I agree. I agree. When Jesus went into Nazareth,

his hometown, synagogue, on a Saturday. He was baptized, went into the wilderness, got tried to the devil, overcame with scripture, and then he went to his hometown. The scroll from Isaiah was

handed to them and he said, "This is the Nazareth manifesto. This is the first sermon he's

ever preached, Jesus." Okay. Started lunch this ministry in Nazareth and it's so beautiful. He said, "The spirit of the Lord is upon me. He has sent me to set the captive free to bring sight to the blind is to bring proclaim the good news to the poor. Everybody in the synagogue were so happy." And remember the context, it was very, a lot of tension between the Jews and the Romans. So the Jews were waiting for the Messiah, but they were waiting for a military liberator.

They were waiting for a politician to come and lead them against the Romans. But then Jesus

Lebanon. He said, "Not because there weren't so many widows in Israel that Elijah

was sent to the Sidonian widow." Okay. A foreigner, keep in mind. When there were lots of needy widows in Israel at the time. But he went to a foreigner. And not because there weren't so many people with leprosy, which is a skin disease, that God's grace, through Elijah, the Elijah servant reached a Syrian army commander whose name is name and so Jesus is saying the foreigner gets to enjoy God's blessings and God's favor. And the enemy from Iran gets to enjoy God's

blessings and God's favor. When they heard this, they were furious. They took him to the edge of the town that was built on and they wanted to throw him over the murder him. Yeah. So Jesus' message, if we keep it central and focus, it disrupts all these exclusive mindset. Why can't we share the land? Why can't we live in peace? We are extending an olive branch and saying,

let's find, obviously, there is 7 million Jews and 7 million Palestinians living currently

between the river and the sea. Obviously, they're not going to kick the Palestinians out, although they've been trying very, very hard to do that and had Egypt open the borders.

“In Gaza, I think the whole population would have been pushed out. And they are trying to do it”

very, very closely to the Christians and bits of how right now by bringing many different settlements and making life extremely miserable, restricted movement on all of that. So obviously, the people are still there. They're not going to kick us out. The other option is that the Palestinians are going to kick the Israelis out. And for me, as a Christian Palestinians, I don't want to see that happen.

I don't want to see another tragedy inflicted upon the Jewish people. So the bottom line and this is

the posture and this is the attitude and this is the position that every single follower of Jesus must adopt and follow. Let's find a way to share the land. Let's find a way to make peace instead

“of getting caught in any time scenarios, something speculative sometime in the future. What is that?”

Or, or, you know, preferring another group of people over another. It's superiority. It's becoming an ethnic state. Are we going to keep it as an ethnic state or can we find a diplomatic solution? The danger is when Christian politicians start to mix the politics with theology and they come up with this formula that is indigestible, hard to solve, so's confusion and it keeps people on the sideline instead of actively engaging and becoming peace makers. Well, boy, you like every,

the 11 team people are so diplomatic. It's like unbelievable. Yeah, it's way worse than that. I mean, you wind up, I mean, as you, as I know you know, you wind up with Christian politicians were constantly invoking the name of Jesus, supporting the murder of their fellow Christians in the Levant. So like that is, I think that's very serious. I don't think

“you should do that. I think you're going to suffer for that. Like don't do that. How can you”

excuse or aid in the murder of innocence in the name of Jesus? And I've said this directly to a bunch of these politicians, because I get very upset about it. And they're like under a spell like they don't even in private. They're like what we have to. Last that last December, the state of Israel, the foreign ministry of the state of Israel sponsored a summit in Jerusalem. They brought 1,000 US pastors to Israel to attend military briefings to military briefings. Yes, the head of

the state was there. The Prime Minister was there. They were commissioning them as ambassadors, not for Jesus, but for the state of Israel. They were talking about this unholy alliance being formed. They attacked me by name. I know. Right. And they attacked you and all of that. But what really caught my attention, Tucker, when I was reading over the website of that summit, I was reading some notes and some guidelines, do's and don'ts. One of the guidelines, the Christian

guidelines stated that do not speak of the name of Jesus. Preaching is not allowed in Jerusalem.

Express your faith through acts of kindness and all that, but do not mention Jesus. Why? When I read that, my mind went back all the way to the book of Acts, chapter five. When the spiritual elites in Jerusalem, they summoned Peter and did savages, and you know what they told them, do not speak of the name of Jesus. Imagine those pastors coming to Jerusalem to not be able to share their faith and to share about their Christ and their Messiah, the hope, that's one thing. The other thing,

none of these pastors, they went and they prayed over dead stones, they went over and prayed over the Western walls, which is in a fine, they can do that, but none of them stepped a foot in a Christian church. No. None of them visited the local Christian population. Who is they didn't go to the

“church, the Holy Sepulcher? Not to my knowledge. It was imparted, I think. How can a church Holy Sepulcher”

obviously one of the most holy places in Christendom? It's where Christians believe Jesus is two months, Sepulcher tomb. Yes. And it's a wonderful place, amazing place. One of the places in the world, in my opinion, how could you not go there for Christendom? It's like Mike Johnson, the speaker of the house. Oh yes. He's a very prominent evangelical third-end line, presidency. Last August, he went to Israel. He prayed the Western wall. He went to a settlement in the

West Bank, and he planted trees in those settlements in the West Bank, and he declared that this Judean's and Samarion Hills belonged to the Jewish people by divine right. What? John and

being so punished for this, we're going to be punished for this, I'm just telling you. He never

“interacted and met with the, you know, your people go and visit the dead stones, but they”

forget about the living stones. There are people there who are suffering, because of the system that keeps oppressing them and applying pressure, and their numbers are shrinking, the people are leaving, and people throw this number well, it's because of the other pressures. No, Israel is the only place in the middle, the only democracy in the Middle East that Christians feel respected and protected. You know the Prime Minister of Israel? What year were you born? It was born in 1980.

Okay, so you grew up under the Israeli government. Yeah, that's a Christian. Yeah, and I watch also the Oslo Accord and I. Yeah, so I mean, like I'm talking, you're sitting right here, is that what do you think when you hear that? And I still minister there, and we still allow our ministry

“still serves in the Palestinian territories, and we serve in Jordan, and we serve in Egypt, and our”

ministry is focused on reaching young people, equipping them and empowering them, so they can be agents of change in their communities, so they can become peacemakers. This is why I left my secular job in DC, a very successful job, and committed my life to this mission, because the Christian presence in the Middle East is a the brink of extension. If we can do, if we don't do anything about it, especially in bits of whole right now, there'll be no Christians left under the

Israeli's, it's on the, at the point of extinction, having survived the Romans and the Crusaders in the Ottomans and the English, this is the reason Israelis that the Christians are about to go to extinct. This is exactly why I am not going to be silent anymore. Not because I'm not of activists, I don't go on podcasts and just start talking, but when I see something against the values that we believe in, the biblical values against the character of God, I have to be

that prophetic voice and say, not in our name. Jesus showed us a better way. Jesus taught his followers to be the salt, to be the light, to be the peacemaker. He entrusted us with the ministry of reconciliation, how much reconciliation efforts are we doing? We're given money and billions of dollars to build these settlements. So, and taking the land from Christians, but we're spending a little to no money in peace initiatives in the reconciliation efforts in understanding, in mutual understanding,

and there are so many Christian-led organizations on the ground that are doing amazing work

not to see Palestinian Christians and the next generation of Palestinians go hopeless,

“and in despair. Are you the violence and the worship of violence there? It's really like no”

place. I'm aware of in the world. People follow this already know that and everybody's afraid. Yes. I have noticed who we're going is. We're on more people of Colby. You know, who be careful. Everyone's afraid. Are you afraid? Absolutely. I mean, the people we serve in Bethlehem, when we tell the parents that we're taking your kids to Jerusalem, whenever Israelis allow us to get permits, it's becoming really very rare.

Now, that Israelis would allow Christians from Bethlehem, which is five kilometers away,

to go and spend a day in Jerusalem. When we do get their permits, and we tell that we don't get Christians in Jerusalem, I mean, in Bethlehem have difficulty going to Jerusalem three miles away. Oh, absolutely. The whole thing is the system is set up to restrict the movement,

“to only you have to apply through the Israeli military to get permission to go from”

on Palestinians city to an Israeli city. So it's really controlled cities. Think about, look, the West Bank is like a Swiss cheese. There are holes on the Swiss cheese. Those are the Palestinian

cities. They live in 165 enclaves throughout the West Bank. But Israel controls the whole cheese

militarily, and they apply pressure on these Palestinian cities. Some people even call it the Holy Swiss cheese. So when Palestinians want to go from one Palestinian city to another, they have to drive on specific roads, going through specific checkpoint, roadblocks, and around every city, there are iron gates that Israel seals off every time they feel like it. Our ministry director was coming back from a trip from Jericho to Bethlehem. I drive should take him about 35, 40 minutes.

He got stuck at one of the checkpoints for eight hours. He got hungry. He ordered food on door dash, came through a motorcycle delivered pizza for him. But he got stuck there for eight hours. And he'd had a team of ministers from the Netherlands, and they were all stuck together. They saw it firsthand. Lines and lines of trucks and Palestinian cars. Why? Because Israeli soldier on that checkpoint felt like taking a nap. Eight hours. This is the daily reality. This is not random.

A trip that would, you know, if you had a medical emergency, you miss it. If you have an

“job interview, if you want to go from Bethlehem to Ramallah, from Jericho to any other Palestinian”

town he brought, you will have to go through these, you will have to navigate through the Swiss cheese. And sometimes you get shot at randomly, at gunpoint. I was with a group of church leaders from Alabama. Took him to the West Bank. Went through Jordan and then one of the checkpoints that leads to Jerusalem. We got stopped. Where is your passport? Everybody held the American passport. I had my American passport, which I'm very proud of. We held it. But the

soldier profiled me out of all the 10 church leaders. And he said, "You, where is your Palestinian ID?" I gave him my Palestinian ID and he said, "You're not allowed through this checkpoint. You have to go through Calandia, which is you have to walk on foot. You're not allowed to. Did you say, "Son, I pay your salary." I'm an American citizen. I don't speak to me like that. I told him you are embarrassing the state of Israel in front of our American friends who I brought from Alabama.

They watched the whole thing. Some of them they broke in tears. They said, "What is this?" And what happened? And we made a return and went to the other checkpoint. But I mean, okay, you pay for this. The United American taxpayer. Palestinian, Christian, and Americans, specifically. We feel betrayed on two levels. Yeah. We pay taxes. We work so hard to fund this system. In the meantime, our sacred

tax and our sacred scripture is used against us. You don't belong here. God gave this land to some money else. So our money and our scripture is being flipped on us and weaponized against us.

And it makes me just on justice grounds and decency grounds and Christian grounds. It makes me like

“crazy. I have to say prayers to come down. How do you say this? That's why we need to raise awareness.”

I love that American church so much. I believe there's, and I believe in the promise of America Tucker. I believe America can play a significant trolling, bringing peace and prosperity to the Middle East, which is, that's the state of the intention. But the way we go about it is sometimes it contradicts biblical values. So you're an American and you have the Blue Passport, your taxpayer, you get mistreated by the Israeli government, the idea of which you also pay for,

holding a weapon made in your country that you paid for. And you have an ambassador who serves supposedly your country at the US Embassy in Jerusalem. So have you called my cuckoo be about this? We have given up on the politicians. We have given up on the politicians. He's not a politician. He is an emissary of the president who works with the United States State Department. I'm the son of an ambassador and how this works. And his job is to reflect the views of his president and to defend

his country in a foreign country. He represents America's interests in a foreign country. That's not what he said on the last DBN interview. He said, "My job is to secure the blessings for Israel, so America can get blessed." So his primary concern is really blessing Israel. What that means? As America been blessed by this policy, do you think I've lived here for 56 years? I don't think it's been blessed by this policy. I don't think I don't see the blessing. I don't think this is how

“God views blessings. You see, we are blessed in Christ. That's what the American church needs to get.”

Christ in Christ. Christ in you is hope of glory. Yes. What else do you really want? That's the blessings that we get to enjoy. But in the meantime, we want to live in a society that is fair, that is based on justice, based on human dignity, and we cherish these values, these American values, and these are based on biblical values, and some people make the argument that the entire Western civilization is based on these values, of course. But when I see a regime

in the Middle East, that is claiming to be the only democracy in the Middle East, and it's the extension of the West, and they're not holding, they're not living up to these biblical values, then they need to be held accountable. Yes. Well, I couldn't agree more. My whole wife has been

sidetracked by this question in the past few months, because I feel it so strongly, and I never

wanted to have this debate. But whatever, but just to the question of Huckabee, his job is to represent you and your government. So if you call him, and don't want to, you know, Huckabee is not the most guilty person. I know him. But I just have to ask, like, could you call Huckabee's, could you call you a submissive in Jerusalem and say, "Hey, I'm an American citizen, and I'm being someone with a gun, it's like pulling me out of the car." Yeah, but how would you have a conversation

with somebody who says Palestinians don't exist? Who says Palestinians? There are no such

“thing as Palestinians. He said that? Yes, it's on tape. What does it mean don't exist?”

That means they're invented people. They all, they're not indigenous to the land. They came from somewhere, and what did they come from? Well, they claim that Palestinians came from neighbouring countries to prevent the Jewish states from being established. They don't even recognize that these people have been on the land since the shepherds, at least. Well, we can't long and prove that since we've decoded the human genome, we don't have to guess about any of this. We give everybody in the

week of all 14 million people in this zone. DNA tests, we could find out who's got the longest

section of the land. Could we do that? Yes, absolutely. For me, and even not just the ambassador, but also to, I want to appeal to that broader evangelical community, and this is my tribe. Justice, human rights, safety and security is not a zero-sum game. Loving Israelis does not mean ignoring the suffering of the Palestinians, praying for the peace of Jerusalem, which I do with all the time. I want Jerusalem to prosper. I do too. I want Jerusalem to thrive. I totally agree.

But politicians are using this verse to say I want to bless Jerusalem pray for the peace of Jerusalem. That means Jewish sovereignty in Jerusalem. Total disregard of the historic church that has

for the peace of Jerusalem does not mean accepting the destruction of Gaza. Justice is not a zero-sum

“game. No. Our political system and our pastors and leaders, they need to recognize that”

there is another way. It's not either or mentality. It's not choosing to support and bless one group of people because most likely it's going to end up at the expense of the vulnerable. Can I ask you about that point, the expense of the vulnerable? As this is like theology 101, as a Christian, can Christians ever accept as good the killing of innocence? Absolutely not. That's not even a close call, is it? It's a crime against God. Exactly. Because everyone

is created in the image of God. Bless you. Israelis, Palestinians, people with faith, people without faith.

Everyone is valuable to be cherished and loved by God. But if you have done nothing wrong, you can't be. It's wrong to punish you. Correct? It's wrong to shoot your mother for not doing anything.

“No. I mean, not just your mother. Anyone's mother. Anyone's child. You can't. You could say,”

well, that happens, which it does, of course, a lot, and it's not just the Israelis. You do it. Of course, everyone does it. But don't Christians have to say that's wrong. Absolutely. We have to go. We have to raise a prophetic voice. It's not Christians are easy to be compassionate.

Because Jesus was compassionate. He saw the sheep without a shepherd. He was moved with compassion.

But also Jesus, when necessary, he raised the prophetic voice. He braided a whip, actually. At one point. Yes. He spoke against the injustice and the evil doors with the goal of transforming their heart. Now, whether, you know, I don't have the ability to convert anybody. I don't have the ability to change anybody. But I know the one who can. Yes.

“And if the church doesn't believe in that power, that the hardest of hearts can be transformed.”

Paul, what change is calling exactly? It was a truthless, generous killing Christians and dragon them went to drink the Damascus or dragon to Syria to kill more Christians. Yes. Yep. Jesus changed them and he became the apostle. We need more stories of this in the Middle East. This is what gives me. This is what keeps me up at night and this is what gives me up in the morning. It's to see the Middle East healed, transformed by the level of God.

We need, if we have the power to stop the injustice, inflicted upon the Palestinian, we need to speak. If we have the ability to speak against the injustice committed against Christians in Syria, in Iraq, Lebanon. I had the friend who passed the Good Shepherd Evangelical Church in Sweden. He was putchered with his family 12 members in cold blood by an Islamic terrorist. As Christians, we condemned that. We condemned that. This was in Syria not too long ago.

His name is Khaled Mazhar. Yes. So, as Christians, we have a responsibility. We have a sacred calling from God to advocate on behalf of the widow, the orphan, the poor, the marginal. This was the very core message and many many Christians I want to point this out. They see this as well. I want to stick with the gospel. I want to preach the gospel. This is social. That is the gospel. But Jesus had these two missions that are not competing. He preached the kingdom. He preached for

given us of sense. He talked about repentance. But in the meantime, he fed people. He healed bodies. He raised people from the dead. You know, the Good News to a child in Gaza who lost all of his family member and air strike. What is the Good News to that child? It's our proximity. It's our presence. It's delivering a cold cup of water for the least of these. Of course. This is the gospel message. So, many Christians they decide say, "Well, I just want to focus on the gospel and in time

theology and they spend hours and resources and millions of dollars preparing for an event that's going to happen or may not happen in the future." While people are living on a living hell on earth. So, anti-rights, great theologian. He said, you know, heaven is not a place that you get to go to after you die, but heaven is bringing God's love to people on earth. It's right. And hell is not just a place you're sent to. It's a place you can experience when in an every UC chaos and violence

So, let me ask you about a very controversial topic and that's Islam and the Muslims. And I noticed

“that in the United States that anyone who says, "Wait a second, what is going on in Gaza or the”

West Bank? Why are we paying for this? Why are our ministers, our ministers making excuses for this?" Anyone who says those things is accused of working for the Muslims or being a secretary-hardy or taking money from some Muslim group or country or whatever. This is happening to me.

So, it's a lie. For the record, I've never taken money from anybody. Christian Jew or Muslim and won't.

But whatever. The point is, the response is, "I don't want to talk about what your tax dollars are doing because Islam is so scary that we just have to go along with this or else we're all going to be living in a caliphate." Yes. What do you, have you noticed this? Well, this has been the media narrative and we are told by Christians and because I'm ministering on Christian circles that this is a cosmic battle between God of the Bible against His enemies. Yes.

This is between good and evil. Islam versus the West. Yes. Once you frame a conflict like this, you are destined for perpetual animosity and perpetual wars. That's the whole point. It was the point of 9/11, obviously. So, do we have our differences theological with Islam? Yes. Nobody ignores that. Do we have our understanding of God? Yes. But that doesn't mean we have

to discriminate and demonize an entire group of people, almost 2 billion people for the sins

that are committed by bad actors who are using religious tax or whatever to justify violence. That is speed to be called out and I believe many governments in the in the Arab world have

“rejected political Islam and will they fear it to consider threat to their power. But you have to”

wonder like something like Syria where Israel teams up with Turkey. This is true. No one wants to hear it but to take out the last government, whatever. And the net effect is to have savagery by shihadi groups against Christians and Alway, it's not the religious minorities but like

okay. I mean I'm against shihades and against radical Muslims for sure. I always have been

but like they're not the ones who did this actually. They're not the ones who overthrew a secular regime and made it possible to murder all the Christians. It's same in Iraq. They'd a secular regime not defending Saddam or Uday or Qusay. Yes. But it was these railies pushing the busher administration to overthrow this regime that got millions of Christians in Iraq murdered or displaced. And that's just a fact. And had we listened to the church leaders in Iraq? Had we listened

to the pastors and leaders who pleaded with the administration not to invade? We wouldn't have this catastrophe. Iraqi community is very small and but they're faithful they're staying but they have been devastated by the terror. They're mostly gone now and you will see the same thing in Syria, same thing in Lebanon. It just blew up the port of Beirut. Yeah because when once you create the chaos, once you blow up a place, you create a vacuum. A vacuum of hope. And what's

going to fill this hope is radicalism, extremism. I tell you a story about Ali Faraj from Gaza,

“little boy. I think he's six or seven or eight. Can't remember his age. He was blown off”

his apartment into the next door roof. That is a famous picture. He's you know pointing hands and bludded. He lost five of his sisters, 15 members of his family. That creates a deep vacuum in his life. If it's not filled with the hope, if it's not filled with God's love, this is the easiest. You know someone who's going, when you lose your agency, when you live in despair, I'm not giving excuses but this is the vacuum that we obviously

do have it. And I'm deeply concerned, you know, I leave the politicians to figure it out politically, but as Christians as ministers, our posture has to change. Our attitude towards everybody, even our enemies, especially our enemies, especially our enemies. Yeah. We're not going to be naive and bury our heads in the sand. And you know, pretend that God is not calling us to be escapist.

even pagans do that. You don't get points for that. We're required to love our enemies.

“And engage in the culture, engage in the community with the gospel, because we have a powerful”

powerful hope that can transform hearts and minds. And this is the only hope that the Christian

can really offer. Can I ask one last question, and it's about the third temple. So in the world that you've lived and I didn't fully realize just how in evangelical world you've been, since how old were you when you came to the US? I was 18, 18. So you came, not only from the West Bank, too, the United States, and you go to liberty and a lot of great people, but they have a totally different understanding of what's happening in the place that you grew up and you do and a totally

different theology, maybe than you do. It's America's different. But one of the ideas that's common among Christian Zionists is that they need Christians need to help rebuild this thing

called the third temple. Yes. In Jerusalem. Unfortunately, there's a mosque on the site,

one of the whole East places in Islam, Oximas. But is that something that Christians should want to rebuild the third temple? What is that? What does that idea come from? And what would happen if it were attempted? Absolutely not, the short answer. Jesus and Ephesians, too, he knocked down the

“wall of hostility that separated the Jews and the Gentiles. Yes. Why are we bringing it back up?”

Why are we building it? There is no point, there is no scripture that point to the fact that Christians need to build the third temple. There is no prophecy about a third temple. There is no way in scripture about anything closer or down. We're moving toward knocking down the Oximasque and replacing it with a third temple. All things being equal, it's going to happen. It was just occupied yesterday by a bunch of settlers. So this is happening in slow motion. Christians are paying for it.

Again, what is going on? They're putting their hopes and earthly matters where I direct them to the faith that Abraham had, where he fixed his eyes on what eternal, the New Jerusalem. In Galatians chapter 4, it spells it out really clearly. If you are in Christ, you belong to the free woman, Sarah. And if you don't belong to Christ, you're still fixated and enslaved by the idea of an Earthly Jerusalem. The land matters, yes, we honor Jerusalem. We remember what Christ had done there.

“It carries deep memories. But the question is, does it have any spiritual significance?”

Does the temple have any spiritual significance? When Jesus came, he transformed the whole meaning again, you know, John chapter 1, it says, Jesus, he pitched his tent among us. The word became flesh. The word became flesh. He tabernackled among us. That's the exact word that the Greek language uses to describe Christ in carnation. He tabernackled among us because he is the locus of the land. If there is anything holding the holy land, it's Jerusalem. If there is anything holy in Jerusalem,

it is the temple. If there is anything holy in the temple, it is the holy of holys. But guess what happened when Jesus was crucified? I think destroyed, split in half because he is the final destination, everything in scripture points to Jesus, not to a third temple. When Jesus ascended and he sent his Holy Spirit, he empowered his disciples to be the temple of the Holy Spirit because God does not reside. It specifically does not reside in a house built with hands and stones. God resides in us

human beings through the Holy Spirit. So why are we so fixated on erecting a temple that does not have any spiritual significance whatsoever? We are the temple of God. Jesus himself is the high priest, according to the new testament. Jesus himself is the Lamb of God to the sacrifice and Jesus himself offered himself as the sacrifice. So he is the Alpha and he is the Omega. He is the author and the finisher of our faith according to our Holy scripture and Christians need to be fixated on that holy

hope. Thank you for the time you spend here. It's an amazing conversation. I appreciate it.

Thank you. Thanks for watching the Wednesday edition of the show. We stream live every week. Wednesday 6 p.m. Eastern on TuckerCurlson.com. Members can watch the show live

doing it and grateful that you watch it. Thank you.